 Yes absolutely. Okay. Okay. Yes. Thank you Vinay. Yeah, so good to know that you're connected and We will get into today's Content But before that, I just thought that you know, we could briefly talk about the assignment I've posted the assignment for the Google Classroom students. I hope you have access to anybody You're still having problems accessing it. Okay, so No one so far has issues, but if you do please post on the screen page We'll I'll try and rectify it right away. I think now it's accessible. So should be alright And the due date for submission. I think it is I don't know. I may be 17th. I've said 23rd, but have a look at it So by the end of the day IST, you know, 12 midnight India standard time you could Send your submissions one submitted So I think it allows you to keep working on the Google form As much as you'd like, but once you hit the submit button, you cannot make changes So please do not hit the submit button if you're not satisfied if you're satisfied then yes Please fill it out and then hit the submit button. So that would You know, that would be some instructions for the first assignment And just to make things simpler and easier for us. We will just have two assignments One has already been posted. This is for 50 marks and another one towards the end of the course For another 50 marks Salome you you had some problem. Is it resolved? Okay, do let me know Salome. Maybe okay. It's resolved. Okay great because I saw your message Okay, submit it wonderful. Okay, excellent. Okay, so let's Pray and we will Get started. I would like to request anyone from our class to please lead us in a word of prayer, please Harrison, would you be willing to pray? Yes Heavenly Father, we thank you. I will bless your name. We give you all the praise and we give you all the glory Thank you for another opportunity. Thank you for another day To study your word And I thank you for all my fellow students and I thank you for pastor. I Thank you, Holy Spirit that you open up our ears and our mind to receive What the Lord is had for us today. I pray Father that at the end of this session That we'll have more reason to go to serve you better Holy Spirit divine teach us reveal Jesus to us as we study his word In Jesus name, I pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you Yes, so With that we'll get into our lesson and we've been talking about building people by the spirit so We basically talked about the fact that in the kingdom of God we invest in the lives of others And we were looking at some of the practical ways in which we Must invest in people's lives with the fact that we must understand their destiny position them in the manner that God wants them to be positioned and then The way we interact with them so we were at that we were talking about our interactions with the people who we are building so We said that You know, we must nurture people life to life So they can learn from our lives and then if we touched upon the fact that we must avoid Insecurities I'm on page 68 for those of us who are wondering where we are. So avoid insecurities as leaders avoid jealousy Avoid being overprotective. So I think this is where we kind of stopped and we said that Paul was very zealous for the believers because he had Invested and he had served the believers for their spiritual maturity And he did not want any wrong doctoring or any false profit to lead them as trace So in that way, he was zealous for the believers and he could not take it when there You know any any kind of a wrong Suggestion was made to the people, you know, I give the example of when the Galatians where moving towards Laws after having learned about grace Paul was very upset about it But at the same time, you know, we notice that there is a balance. He talks about how We don't have dominion over the faith of the people. So the faith which people carry It's their own. No, we are here to teach. We are here to present the word of God. We are here to Suggest to them know when they need to make decisions, but at the end of the day, they are the ones exercising their own faith They get to Make their journey of growth. So we should not be overprotective or Controlling of people and we've discussed this time and again So the next practical thing for us to remember is that we must not be Over-involved and this essentially means that we equip people with the word we share from the wisdom of God's word and Then let people make their own decisions because people grow and they make their own decisions. So the way we build people up Should be a Manor in which even if you're not in the scene, they are able to survive on their own They are able to take care of their own lives and continue to strengthen their spiritual walk And all other aspects that concern them The next thing Practically for us to look at is that we must not be overly Authoritative and you know, we've seen this again in scripture Peter He writes first Peter chapter 5 verses 1 through 4 where he see he says that We must lead as Examples to the flock and not lord over them not be lords of the people whom God has entrusted us. So that's the way in which we Guide them. So does that mean that we should completely let go of our authority? No, we are still using our authority, but you know in a loving manner. We we must use it and when do we Strictly communicate with the Flop that God has entrusted us will come to a section where we look at that in detail There are times when we have to bring correction and that might not be You know something that people will receive easily and yet a leader is called to do things like that. So Authority at times can come forth in a strong and a strict way But there is a time and a place to do that But in general even though we carry authority the man which we lead the people Must be one that is loving and we must not lord over the people now moving forward Another practical thing for us to bear in mind is to avoid emotional attachments. Now It's true that you know, you can't Serve someone or you can't mentor people without having some level of you know emotional Engagement you want them to do well. You want to see them grow in God So there is you know that investment, but there is always a boundary which we must maintain overly Involving emotionally or attaching oneself emotionally to those who those who are growing in our care It can be counterproductive because the way God leads people is that after several seasons, you know God may want to send this person somewhere else. So at that point if we are very emotionally attached to the people We we will find it difficult to let them go So one example which is given here in our notes is the friendship of David and Jonathan It was a very special friendship, but when it came time to Send David away Jonathan was willing to do it. So He should be careful about emotional boundaries that bringing correction when required So this is what you know, I'm talking about in terms of authority. There is a place to correct people as well In first confidence after four was twenty nine The kind of language which Paul uses it's it's very sharp He says what do you want? Shall I come to you with the rod or in love and spirit of gentleness? So He wants to bring correction in a little matter and what he's saying is that you know, you better Amend the wrong that is going on if you don't then I will have to come to you With a rebuke I will have to come to you with you know judgment But if you correct yourself then I can come to you with the spirit of love and gentleness. So the fall Did correct people? He did You know Take responsibility whenever there there is a situation where one needs to Speak the truth in love. So we we see in a several instances of Paul Speaking this way. There's another passage first going to be in seven versus 11 through 12 I think it'll be good if one of us can read it. This is on page 71 Kingdom Builders first going to be in seven Versus 11 through 12. Please anyone Can I read passion? Ah, yes. Yes, please. Yes, Christopher Our one Corinthians 7 11 12 For observe this very thing that you sorrowed in a godly manner What diligence is produced? What diligence it produced in you? What clearing of yourselves? What? Indignation what fear What vehement desire what zeal? What vindication? In all things you prove yourself to be clear in this matter Therefore although I wrote to you I did not do it for the sake of him who had done the wrong Know for the sake of him who suffered wrong But that are care for you in the sight of God Might appear to you. Yes. Thank you Christopher. So There was a certain man in the Corinthian Church who fell into sexual immorality and Paul Brings very strict correction Okay Against his person to the extent that he kind of says he tells them like you put this person away till he's willing to Amend his ways. So he's just saying that look I had to do this for the sake of not just that individual or the individual Who who got wronged in the process? But this is for everybody I had to bring correction and that was the right thing to do. So Even Paul understood that he must not withdraw correction. Now whenever it comes to a correction You know, it's it's a very difficult thing for anyone And particularly for people who are leading Most people would want to avoid, you know confrontation Most people would want to keep the relationship such that you know, they push certain things under the carpet and just continue You let's focus on on the easy things Let's focus on the matters where the mentee is doing well or the church is doing well But when it comes to things of correction Okay, hopefully the person will mature on their own and we don't really have to deal with it So a lot of people try to avoid confrontation and it's understandable. However This risk is important for us to take we must bring Correction perhaps 27 verse 6 it says faithful are the wounds of a friend But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful So that shows us that Though correction is hard to bring and very very hard to receive Correction will do good to an individual now Correction, of course can be brought in a loving manner and when they do it What happens is we are helping that person resolve an issue in their character in their lifestyle And in the long term, you know, it will prevent them from Making huge mistakes or you know, kind of it could even prevent them from destroying their own lives Right. So it's doing good to an individual at the end of the day So no matter how hard and difficult it is we must Take the courage. We must take the risk of bringing correction But bring it in a loving manner and sometimes what happens is When we come to know something right, we cannot delay the correction Because if we delay the correction, then you know damage is already done So when you come to know that something is going on and this individual or this this group Needs to hear the truth from God's word and they must stop what they're doing We have to kind of jump in almost immediately and get it sorted Otherwise, you know, things like I'll just give you an example. Suppose, you know, somebody's spreading gossip about other Believers and you're working with this person and you know that they are getting things like this Then you must immediately call up call upon them and say hey, can we can we have a discussion? What's going on? This is what I heard. Could you please explain yourself? And if at all, you know, we find something wrong that we must You know instruct them from God's word and say, look, this is not right. You must stop doing it right away You need to apologize to X Y and Z because if we don't do it, then what happens something like gossip It'll spread and before you know it, you know, it's it's spread through 3 4th of the congregation and it's damaging people Because of one individual who's engaging in things like this So when we come to know that something is wrong Sometimes we have we cannot even wait like you can't even wait overnight You have to kind of jump in right away and bring correction to the individual. So don't delay in bringing correction Yeah, so once we Bring correction. We must allow the individual to respond in a manner You know Give them the liberty to respond. However, they they Are processing this correction now, obviously You know, we do our best to communicate in the gentlest possible manner And we always bear in mind that correction Should edify the individual and not destroy them and once we bring that word of correction We must also remember not to keep bringing it up over and over again Uh, otherwise, what are we doing? We are damaging we're damaging that relationship in the long run Let's say we've given somebody a responsibility and that person Uh, didn't do things well. They didn't treat the people on their team well and it happened once we brought correction Now the person is engaged in another work And you know, if you keep bringing it up and saying, oh, you you don't know how to talk to people This is how you you've done it in the past. What happens? We we're actually destroying the person and not really building the person up So correction is meant to edify The individual or God's people and not to destroy them with that heart when we bring correction It will do its work in the person's life. Now Uh Yeah, we When we communicate, uh When we bring about correction, uh, it's a again It's really difficult to communicate well because we can come from a place of feeling upset feeling angry You know feeling agitated and when you're communicating we can kind of let all those emotions show So the person who's receiving correction, uh, they may not respond rightly when we bring it up in this manner However, if we let the Holy Spirit work in us and we flow with the spirit of gentleness kindness goodness And communicate things in a good way then, you know, fully The person who is listening to us is in a better position to receive that word of correction Now in the approach that Paul had and also some of the other Apostles we noticed that they use a term called beseech I beseech you brethren now In comparison to a term such as command beseech is used, you know Way, uh, uh, you know many it's used several times Compared to me. So in fact, there are 24 references for the word beseech and I think for the word command Don't have the number here, but uh, it's you know fewer Um, very few times where the word command is used. So what does this term beseech mean? So beseech means to call someone near To exhort them exhort means encourage them to intrigue them to invite them. So I beseech you brethren, you know, like I'm inviting you to look at this situation and and let you know that it's not good for you. And so, you know Make a change in the current scenario. So that's how we invite people in a gentle way even for correction However, command comes across in a stronger way where we say things like You know, I command you and uh, uh Paul didn't instruct, you know, uh, people like timothy. He told them there are times when we must command And teach first timothy 411. He tells him, uh, command and teach he so command is To kind of just put it out there and say, this is it. You have to do it It's like the great commission. You know, we don't try to change it. We receive it as it has been spoken So there are times when paul and the other leaders they commanded people Uh, uh, and you know, we find uh passages where paul says, I charge you I charge you brethren. So, uh Apparently come on was used only four times. So, you know, we can say that uh, it was used very sparingly So when we are working with people Even when we bring about correction, uh, it's good to besiege them rather than authoritatively command them because Then we are ministering with the spirit of gentleness. So now once we have spoken The word of correction, uh, what can we expect from people? Okay, so I just leave it open Maybe we can get some responses When we bring correction or some of you, I know you are serving as elders leaders Uh, what kind of responses do you see? If you're comfortable to share Yes um, so basically Some people show a sign of remorse And then some people rebel some people Making you turn basically they repent and then they change their ways So it varies across board according to how They perceive and take it sometimes you mean well Sometimes it depends on the level of maturity or perspective from which they see your correction So it varies across board when we when people receive correction. Yeah Yes, thank you. Thank you for sharing that And uh, can it be ads fear? Sometimes people can be fearful when you bring about correction. Uh, yeah, that's true as well Division and regrouping. Okay fine. So they might want to You know Whatever create some common division in church. So, uh, these are these are Mostly what we have listed is negative responses and in fact say you completed my next section I'm wondering if I should even teach So, uh, yeah, those are all the forms of uh responses that we get We could either get a mature response a mature response is one where individual Is willing to Uh, consider what has been spoken Uh, the person is willing to look at their own lives And you know kind of assess that and see okay. Where did I make a mistake? Why is faster telling me this? Or why is my my team leader telling me this? Uh, fine, let me see how I can change right that would be a mature response but That can be a range of immature responses as well that people You know present so These negative responses right from the people whom we love see first of all bringing correction is a hard thing We all would like to avoid it But after having done that when we receive Getting responses from the people whom we love and we're talking about building people by the spirit our Motivation is to edify them now with all that and people kind of Don't receive the correction. It's very painful for a leader But you know what to do we have to go through this process So what are some of the immature responses that people present with the first one could be complaining right, so uh Once we bring about the correction till we bring about the correction They might view the leader or the pastor or whoever it is as Somebody whom they respect and you know, they put them on a pedestal and all of that But once uh, the correction is brought about you know, they they might Look at the the leader very differently They might want to complain and say no No, no the pastor, you know the sermon The outline is not that good The practical application points were not relevant. Like suddenly, uh, there'll be a completely different way of Looking at things right? Maybe the church looked bright and wonderful every Sunday as they walked in but suddenly they start noticing Oh, the paint is not Kind of good enough. They chose the wrong paint for all all kinds of things Start seeming wrong for the individual and they may also start questioning some of the decisions that the leader has made In the past and just be complaining You know, there's a a smaller issues and make them big issues. So the thing is They're feeling hurt and they don't know how to Uh resolve the matter. So one of the ways in which uh, they are showing their heart is by complaining Against the person who brought the correction and the the thing is they are perceiving that the correction was brought to put them down, which is not true Uh, but you know, that is the perception of the individual So that is one way people can start complaining about us. The second thing is withdrawal withdrawal means they don't connect as much um in terms of you know, communication or Attending programs. Maybe somebody was showing up for every church program. But now that you talked about an issue that they must Correct in themselves They don't show up Okay, or they come really late and they've kind of gone into a shell and every time you're interacting with this individual You feel like you're walking on actions, you know, I don't want to kind of You know, create any any discomfort. I don't want to hurt the person So I have to be very careful in what I say how I even look at them if I you know I should not miss shaking hands with this person. What did they feel bad if they feel more? So basically, you know, you're very careful about the way you're interacting with this person because they are beginning to withdraw Uh from you and also spiritually, right? Well, uh, We are continuing to invest in their lives spiritually. They may not be in a position to receive They have their guards up. They have their walls up and they're like, okay, I don't want to listen to this person anymore So withdrawal can happen. Uh, the third form of immature response is retaliation. Okay retaliation is Like becoming a poser of the same person uh, who You know, this individual appreciated ones. So it's it's a form of rebellion. Right? Why because They're probably disappointed and they are dissatisfied with the way this relationship has gone. They thought that oh Everything is fine with me. And you know, how is it that this this elder or this pastor is calling me out on these matters so they can become very angry And they can retaliate. Okay. Uh, so that also might happen. So as a pastor and as a leader, you know The expressions of retaliation, uh, might be hard for us to pay but, uh, you know, like they might speak up against Uh, the leader And you're the whole time you're wondering, hey, you know, we it's so solvable. Why can't we just have a conversation and uh resolve the issue Of concern rather than you bringing it up in all these other ways and you know opposing me So retaliation is something that can happen. Uh, or departure. Okay. This is again very unfortunate. Uh, once we bring correction Suddenly that individual is no longer around in the programs and you're wondering what happened Uh, so once I was attending a church for eight months now nowhere to be seen You know people might be so hurt that they pack up their bags and they want to move on Do another uh church setting where they will be appreciated. I don't want anybody to point out mistakes or You know negative things in them. So maybe even in that church for a while They can enjoy the the pampering of everyone before the issues resurface again The issues that were not dealt with uh, but When it comes to their Uh relationship with us, they have decided they they want to leave right so departure is also something that can happen So it's hard. You know every single one of these immature response Responses is really hard for a leader to pay but you know, we can't help it because people are Yeah, everyone has the freedom to decide what they want to do. Um, and how they want to Reactive response. So how should a leader take these things? The first practical instruction is to not take it personally Okay, as long as we have brought the correction with the right attitude. We have, um, you know spoken with love And uh gentleness and our motivation was to build the person up. We're thinking about them in the long run Okay, we continue with this habit of gossiping or whatever, you know, it will destroy their life. You destroy their family as well So we're bringing it with the right attitude after having done all that if we are responding negatively just don't take it personally because You could not have done anything else. Okay, so don't take it personally take no offense As well from what has happened. You know, sometimes for leaders, uh We're human as well, right whoever's leading people are human. Uh, and we can take offense meaning that hurt Of the the individual responding negatively can hurt us and if we are not mature enough We carry a hurt in within ourselves, right and it shows in Uh bias in the ministry that we do Or with regard to this particular individually, we can try to hurt them whenever we get an opportunity But the way we see the apostles deal with these things is they encourage people not to take offense. So Paul, uh, you know, he he writes in Galatians 4 versus 11 through 12. He says, I'm afraid for you Lest I have labored for you with will Brethren, I urge you to become like me for I became like you you have not injured me at all So, you know, you see that it's a difficult some difficult situation that he's talking about and uh, uh, You know the responses that he expected from people was not, uh, uh, You know, what whatever happened was not the way he expected things to go But at the end of it, he said you're not injured me at all. So he's trying not to carry an offense in his heart So that is uh an example which we must follow. Okay, so paul, uh, gave us this example of having a big heart Okay, and being like unanimous even if people offend us Okay, you didn't injure me. I'm not going to carry an offense. Okay, and uh, let's leave it at that and let's move forward so, um You know that that is something and I've I've heard like whenever we've had some of these sessions Where you know, man, I don't know what it's called. But for volunteers, we we've had Sessions where we discuss these practical things. So at one point the pastor was sharing about how um, whenever Uh, there is a matter about an individual uh, like he tries not to Say something about that person because that person is not there to defend themselves, you know, and I thought that's a great way of Dealing with people. So, you know Then you've been through difficult situations with uh, uh people Don't you bring it up like if you bring it up and that person's not there to defend themselves Then, you know, it it's not right. It's not right. So, uh, try to forget You know, we are things uh and heal our hearts Don't carry in your friends the way Paul said you have nothing to do at all Come to a place where we've kind of released it and let it go Okay, here's the next practical thing for us to uh, consider give people time to change now It's also possible that initially people have an immature response Uh, but maybe they're taking some time To process what has just been told to them. Okay, and it's never easy even when somebody tells us something It's never easy, right for us to receive correction. So, uh, give people time to deal with things then Um, and if at all, you know, people decide that they no longer want to continue Being with you working with you be part of the ministry Then it's fine because people have made their decision and uh in in an honorable way peaceful way We must be willing to release them. Uh, and you know, let them go Uh, and yeah in continuing to to serve people and individuals Uh, can be mindful to address all areas of their life Um to even bring correction if if required because we've talked about the process of Maturity right and we said it's not just about the anointing Anointing is important, but the wine skin the character is very very important the maturity of individuals is crucial So, uh, as pastors leaders elders, we must address matters Uh, you know beyond beyond ministry So things like how they're managing their time and money Or maybe you want to give them advice, uh, which will help them in the long run or how they're balancing their work How they're taking care of their health Are they getting enough time to rest or not because you know, this is something very practical It happens people end up just You know running running serving serving and they don't know how to take care of themselves They don't even make them to rest. So, uh, we as leaders want to address all these other Areas that also matter You know that that are a part of the individual And keep doing correction wherever necessary bring bring it in a loving manner deal with character issues Yeah, uh, there's a section here again goes into details about character issues But I think we've talked about this a whole lot. So I would not want to get into This once again, but I think one point here. It says deal with heart issues Now people can come with issues such as rejection or you know insecurity emotional hurts Some sort of an inward rebellion. Okay, uh, outwardly We might find them saying yes. Yes. Yeah, let's do it But then internally, you know, there's that aggression and rebellion. So these are all issues that a lot of us deal with So while working with people when we identify there are unresolved emotional issues We can encourage the person and say look, I understand you're going through this How about when we take time in God's word or take a break or something like that, but just help them to Uh wait through that and move on and come up higher in uh the matters of character Yeah And then yeah talking about building people by the spirit. Here's the next uh thing for us to do which is to release people Uh into their calling and we've been talking about this, right? Uh God may lead people Through a journey, uh, even with regard to their gifting their calling. For example, uh, you know, Paul and Barnabas They were teachers in the church of anti-optim acts 13 came about and in acts 13 When the ministering to the holy spirit works to God says, okay set Apart from me Paul and Barnabas for the ministry that have called them to do So they move more into an apostolic kind of a role Where they're going to different regions. They're planting churches and things like that. So God has a timing and you know God would call people in a certain way and as pastors and leaders Our role is one of the catalyst So we are going by God's agenda and when God says hey, it's time for this person to go on to bigger things we just bless them And we give them the liberty to uh move forward then What else can we do now that you know, somebody has moved on? Uh, does it mean that our relationship with them ends not really? I mean if they are the kind who Can still Be in touch with us then uh, we can continue to be A spiritual support to them in whichever way maybe we share some resources Or we pray for that individual or they can count on us when they're going through some issues. They can call up and ask for You know godly counsel from us or whichever way we can support the person We can continue to do that and it really depends on whether they are able to communicate with us or not now coming to Those individuals Whom we have built up, but maybe they have gone away from god They've completely left god for whatever reason And uh, they they're living their own lives We are as leaders. We are called to lovingly restore them They might have made mistakes. They might have completely fallen, but we have to Engaged in restoring certain individual So there are some passages here in our notes as well Galatians 6 1 where Paul says brethren if a man is overtaken in any trespass You who are spiritual restores such a one in a spirit of gentleness Considering yourself lest you also be tempted. So it is a responsibility of a leader to Work on bringing restoration to individuals Now it is possible that some have fallen away and they are unwilling to Correct themselves. They're unwilling to come back Uh to their journey of faith. We have gone away from God visiting. Okay. So how do we deal with such people? Now Paul had certain uh individuals that he writes about uh, he says uh Demas has forsaken me second Timothy 4 10 Having loved his present world and has departed for Thessalonica Uh presence for Galatia Titus for Dalmatia. So uh, he does talk about some fellow workers Who rejected him? Okay, and who left him? So there are people that he too encountered uh, and he talks about certain other individuals Who shipwrecked their faith? um And it's kind of uh, it's not new. It's not new even in the case of Jesus You know you had a Judas who went away from the teachings of Jesus And he made a shipwreck of his faith and he completely you know dissociated himself with Jesus and the ministry and everything but his end was uh, a very difficult end and What else did he do? He opposed the ministry that God had for uh, Jesus so in the same way it's possible that there are people who can Who are a part of uh, the journey but at some point because of the offense that they're carrying in their hearts They can become our opposition as well. So, uh, We do our best to restore them That but if they don't come back, then you know what we see people like Paul and all do is to kind of just let them be Right, let them be so Paul talks about another person Alexander He writes to Timothy and he says Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm with the lord repay him according to his works You also must be there of him For he has greatly resisted our words So uh, Paul goes from a place of restoring such an individual to Letting the people know so he's come to a place when now he has to talk about this rebellious individual to warn others Okay, uh, so it's unfortunate, but uh, if somebody has fallen away and they're unwilling to come back Uh unwilling to make restitution then Uh, you know, there's nothing much that can be done. So that's about correcting people Which is very much a part of building people by the spirit. So at this point, you know, I'm just gonna Give us some time if we have questions or um Some kind of comments from your own experience if you've been through Uh Equipping people in this manner. Yeah, feel free you can share with us. You can all learn from it So just leave this time open I want to share something Yes, yes, sir. Please go ahead Okay, um There's a situation presently in my church that You know, I am some group of persons and I've been able to take it up, you know, to see how we bring them peace in the in the local assembly You know where the head pastor seemed to be having issues with his ministers and We felt that okay, we cannot see the head pastor having issues, you know with with his ministers And at the same time lead the church So there's a need, you know for him to come in agreement, you know with his ministers and let's Love, you know flow amongst them But it's just something that when you look at it It's more like there's this um hatred And there is this um disunity Amongst our leaders and these are the same people that are leading us And we kind of confronted him on this last Sunday, you know for us to be able to get You know a better view or a better understanding of what is going on amongst the ministers And from what he shared, you know, we could see his point of view By the same time, you know, we are still trying to assert that okay in as much as things has happened All the states have happened There's still need for us to forget, you know, what has happened And forge ahead And just like you said, you know, there's some things, you know, you don't take to heart no matter what it is You just let go and keep moving Because as far as the christen dumb is concerned A lot of people will step on your toes And you just have to see it, you know As you know the suffering for christ so You know after You know after all said and done You know, I think he was kind of, you know, still bent on the fact that okay He does not want to use this set of people and what this means is that he has chosen some sets of people over these people And when you look at, you know, the the rank, you know in in position The ones, you know, he has brought in, you know, to be ahead of them, you know I'm more like, you know, young ones who are just coming up And it's kind of creating chaos Is making people have, you know, this odd feeling Why should you put, you know, this kind of person and both this person when we really know that in as much as They don't want, you know, the other They still have that grace in that, you know surpasses, you know, the person that you have placed I know you've placed on top of them So in cases like this, you know, how do you really Address it, you know, to see that, you know, peace is restored and The lost glory is also restored because we want to see that okay the people leading us Our leading us are right, you know, and not, you know, having misunderstanding amongst themselves And at the same time leading us, you know, for me, he does not go down well with me So it's a bit terrible It's a bit, you know, embarrassing You know, to really find yourself in such situations, you know, when you look up, you know, to such people You know, for guidance and you now see this kind of Misunderstanding, you can see this kind of situation Amongst them What's what's your take on this, you know, what's your Advice on this or what do you have to say concerning this kind of situation? Thank you Yes, thank you, Harrison. Thank you for sharing the Situation that is unfolding now So whenever it comes to Leadership and an accusation about the leadership We read in first Timothy Paul writes to Timothy first Timothy 5 verse 19 to not receive an accusation Against an elder except from two or three witnesses So We are told to honor those who are leaders over us And also especially a particularly, you know, double honor for those who are serving In the doctrine and they believe the word of God the teaching God's word to us So the bible kind of, you know Tells us to be slow to accuse Somebody who is in a position of leadership, but at the same time Are we are told that if there are two or three witnesses, which is to say that the offense is confirmed It's not just one person who is saying that something is wrong with the leader, but there are two or You know, three people are even more. So there are Quite a few people who know that this is a confirmed matter. So when this is a confirmed matter We must deal with it in an honorable way. Okay, that's what we're calling now Matthew, I forget the reference right, you know, where uh, Jesus said right like if you have an offense against a brother Then you go speak to them First and if they don't listen when you take somebody with you So then we kind of do it we can do it in that manner We can communicate with the pastor in a In an informal In a nice way if you have the grapple with the pastor, you can just go and share and say first I'm concerned This is bothering me This is this this and I really wanted to bring this up But if you're unable to do that Then I think You know having someone who is close to the pastor and who the pastor Is open to such a person Can actually go and kind of Speak to the pastor and bring up the issue and say, you know, this this is what is bothering Few people they told me about this and I just wanted to share this with you and then kind of try to resolve From there that could be a nice way of doing things. Um, so yeah as I think Uh, in an honorable way Uh, the matter Should one attempt to resolve the matter because sometimes you know, what happens is that the leader may not be aware It could be because of their personality. It could be uh, see if they are intentionally doing these things Uh, that's a different Issue but if they are doing it out of ignorance, at least they'll know When somebody tells them and if they have the right, uh, heart, they will be willing to make the changes required so attempt to Bring across this matter to the leader You know, uh, good way is what I would say Okay, so, uh, does that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense. No, that's um, that's what, you know, I kind of said, you know, when I was talking about this situation because We met him Last sunday to tell him, you know, what's going on. What's bothering us? and A lot of things, you know, were discussed But he was like, okay ain't as much as all these things has happened And you know, he he'll he'll want to like, you know, set things, you know, right He does not want to deal with, you know, this set of people or give them, you know A position that he's given to some sets of people right now So he's saying that okay He does not have any problem with them, but he'll still want to see how They don't get, you know, the kinds of role, you know, that they were playing before So it's more like, you know, he's demoting them And bringing up, you know, a new set of people And when I look at the set of people, they are very young and fresh in ministry And why the ones that have been demoted, you know, have been Have been in ministry almost all their lives and we're not talking about kids, you know, we're talking about some of my elders and some are adults, you know, with family and children and When I look at the whole thing, you know, it's just a bit difficult, you know, for me to weigh and, you know, balance the situation And that's why I'm kind of, you know, skeptical about his decision, you know I'm bringing this, you know, new sets of people and when you look at the new sets of people now People are not really conforming to the style, you know, they come up in ministry And because, you know, when you see someone that is just starting in ministry You cannot compare it, you know, to someone that has been in ministry for a very long time So what they do, you know, to you that have been in ministry for a very long time could be a childish thing So That's just, you know, the case right now and that's why I'm like, you know, trying to throw it up and see how One, it can really come up, you know, with A strategy, you know, to really combat This situation Yeah, sure, sure, Harrison. So, uh, yeah I think it would be good to try to understand why the pastor has done that and present, you know, your side of Your concern And that is a starting point because without that It may not be okay for us to judge the action of the pastor He might have some reason Why he has done that, right? And sometimes, you know, when we look at people who are leading They are carrying a responsibility Uh, and they are accountable Okay, to god, they're accountable to the people whom they serve And they make certain decisions Now For me To not be in their shoes and judge them Uh, is not right So I I if I feel like, hey something some decision that this person is making is a concern I want to know why then what I would do is I would reach out to the person and say I'm really, um, you know, bothered by this Can you please tell me why you made this decision? So to kind of go about it in that manner And see why that person has made the decision because you know, we're not in their shoes We don't see everything that they are seeing and why they are making that decision. So, uh, it's not Like we can't judge before we Make the right news. So I just want to add that but good that, you know, you who are discussing And now you're trying to see Why such a decision has been made and also present your concerns. Okay class. I do understand. We've gone way past time But uh, can and there is a question. I see three hands raised Uh, can we take a break and come back? Would that be okay? Yeah Yeah, okay, let's do that Uh, we're at 10 57. We can come back at 1107 and then we will cut. Yeah. Thanks, Christopher Come back