 So we're here at Lenaro Connect, and who are you? Gordon Krueberg, I'm the CEO of Gumsticks. And Gumsticks stands for small PC like this? Gumsticks, originally we were the first full implementation of Linux on a computer the size of a stick of gum. So this goes way back to 2003 when we were first in business and first in the corporate. That was way before the Rockchip, all winner kind of HDMI sticks that were running Android and stuff. We were the first, and back then just being able to do a full implementation of Linux was a big deal. What was the ARM chips you was using? The original was the PXA250 from Intel, which became the PXA255, then the 270 from Marvell. So it was the strong arm chips? Yeah, it was the one just after the strong arm. Yeah, the SA16, I think 1600. You had some good Linux running on that? Yes, the first. Yeah, it was full implementation of Linux using G-Lib C instead of the UC-Lib C. So it wasn't embedded Linux and it was powerful enough that somebody took that and then it ended up doing a BSD port as well. So we have multiple versions of full Linux going back then. And was it just a thing that made sense to make a PCB fit both sides and several layers and stuff and very compact or was it like very special? Our idea was to put all the hard stuff into one small PCB and put all the easy stuff on an inexpensive board. So we drove the cost down at the time, we drove the cost down of doing a multi-layer board with all the hard routing done so that somebody could connect something as simple as an HDMI connector, as you point out, and make one little stick that had a full software on it and running HDMI. What was the price? First price, oh my goodness. I think we were, we didn't break $100. So it was $139, I think, $129, $139, something like that. First HDMI stick, TC. That was even, that was LCDs. First HDMI PC came out a little later and that was probably $179, yeah. All right. A couple years later. So you the CEO and founder of Gumstakes and it's a company here in the Silicon Valley? We are here, we're based in Redwood City. We have our R&D going on in Vancouver, Canada, but right now what we've done is turned from just making it simple to have all the hard electrical engineering work done on a com, a computer on module. We've entirely, we'd like to show that, well, let me pull this back. We've now got something that we call Geppetto which automates the entire design of an expansion board or a single board computer so that anybody can sit down and build exactly what they want and get it to market in the course of a few weeks. So automate the design of a PCB? Yeah, well, more than just a PCB, the entire electronic device, all the electronics that go into a device. Our motto really has been to dream, design and deliver a product and every year we try to add something to our product or service portfolio to make it easier for somebody to build what they dream up. Right now, most of the great work in electronic device design is done in software. What we're trying to do is make it easy enough for anybody who can program to design their own custom electronic device that runs the code that they wanna run. So yesterday I did a video with a guy from QWERTY embedded design and he's using KeyCAD. Yes. How does this compare with using something like KeyCAD? KeyCAD is for an electrical engineer. Geppetto is for anybody. So KeyCAD, somebody who has to know about part placement, how to do the routing, how to construct a bill of materials, how to generate the Gerbers, how to send the instructions off to a contract manufacturer and then have it all assembled. Once that assembly is done, the operating system needs to be built. Operating system has to have device drivers, has to have documentation done. All of that is managed right now in Geppetto. So what Geppetto does is take block diagrams, things like I want an HDMI connector and then if I have an HDMI connector on the board, what else do I need? Geppetto will manage that and will ship the customer a product 15 business days later that is able to run whatever they want. 15 business days. So we wipe out weeks to months of electrical engineering and operating system work. Since when do you have this solution? This has been instantiated for gum sticks products for a couple of years now. We expanded to support many of our former competitors like Toradex or Technection. We're working with several of the new companies to add them to our product lineup. So does that mean that what Toradex and Technection is able to print out of this app? So the person using this app would get it done by them? No, not at all. Anybody who wants to build an expansion board for a Toradex Calibri can do that expansion board in Geppetto. So what we've made it very easy for a Toradex customer to build the support electronics that are required in order to use a Toradex product. Like a mezzanine boards? We make, yes, exactly right. They make the comm, we make the mezzanine for 96 boards. That's why we're here. We make hats and we make carrier boards for Raspberry Pi for the Raspberry Pi Raspberry Pi Compute Module. We make expansion boards for the Toradex Comm, yeah. So sorry, Toradex and Technection, they are involved in making small PCBs, kind of like a psalm. Exactly, they make psalms, they make psalms. What's your history with the psalm? We were the first. You were the first to do psalm. We were the first full Linux psalm. And back in 2004, when I think Toradex has been around almost as long, we're close to as long as we have, possibly longer. You know, we track them and we've admired their engineering for years. They pioneered getting windows onto a tiny psalm. Have you been working with them? Yeah, oh, that's my whole point here is that we used to be competitors and now what we've done is created Gepetto in a way that somebody can use Gepetto to build a product that will support the Toradex. So now we're partners. Nice. So is this, what's the business model on this? And kind of like, because there's all these... Somebody goes to our site, Gepetto.comsticks.com, designs their board, and then they can add it to a catalog and we will then buy the board and we'll ship them the board 15 business days later. Because there's so much innovation happening right now. People have new ideas. They want to do crowdfunding. They want to do new devices, new stuff. So this enables that. Absolutely. This lets anybody who knows how to program can build a board. And there's an app, there's an app called Gepetto and when you do stuff in there, then you have some people checking that it's going to be okay on the PCB before it gets printed out. You don't just send it to the printing machine, right? Oh, and there's not a printing machine with the... We do have engineers inspect everything that goes through. All right, like kind of like verifies stuff and calculates things that they should be in the right place or... That's reasonably fair, some fair thing. And what's the price? Is it affordable to get things done? Well, absolutely. I mean, you know, our entire manufacturing NRE, so the manufacturing setup cost is $2,000. And then we will ship you however many boards based on what it costs to make that board. We believe that for anybody building up to 20,000 units a year, this is by far the lowest cost of engineering plus manufacturing to get something done. Certainly the fastest. $2,000 to get set up, kind of like a license or kind of like a start. And then... Manufacturing fee. Manufacturing fee. Yes, so in order to have... So imagine that you want something manufactured. It costs us a certain amount of money to have our subcontractors build and set up their systems and tool. So in the app, how many possibilities are there with this, like lots and lots of different modules and things you can put. You can build almost anything you want in IoT. So if you wanted to build a cell phone, if you wanted to build an edge device, an edge sensor, an edge node for the IoT, you could do that. Cool.