 Very good morning to you and thanks for joining us on the run-up. My name is Nyam Gul Agadj. It's been a very exciting week, and now we're at the weekend and we're hoping that you're going to have a wonderful time. But we are edging closer and closer to the coming elections with less than 35 days to go. Nigeria's cyberspace today is replete with political bullies and trolls. Social networking platforms like Facebook and Twitter have become places where back-to-back insults and blackmailing of political opponents take place on daily basis. We've seen videos that are edited and really badly edited, voiceovers done in a very bad way and all that, just so that propaganda can go against a particular candidate or the other. The 2023 elections seem to come with the vibe the 2015 elections brought. The now ruling party APC meant business. It's cyber-bullied PDP out of government. The as-well president, Goodluck Jonathan, bore the brunt of the mindless cyber-bullying orchestrated by the opposition supporters. Fast forward to today. The same energy is springing up, but this time, not only on a single candidate like it was in the 2015 election, but on three major contenders for the office of the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, or four, if you may. Today we'll be discussing the cyber-political war, the revelation of influence as being paid to manipulate voters, highlighting the positives and negatives of these and more. We'll just go on a quick break. When we return, we'll be joined by our guests and then we'll start the discussion. Stay with us. Welcome back to you. It's still the run-up and we're here trying to look at a very specific issue today. Nigeria's cyberspace has been littered with avalanche of malicious utterances and statements now referred to as violence in the Nigerian way, get to ridicule past false information and tarnish the image of an integrity of politicians vying for elective positions, especially the three most media-alized, if I may, presidential candidates in the coming 2023 general elections. The momentum is piling to hive confusion and chaos on the increase on social media. Nigerians might just concentrate on free volities, character, assassination, intimidation of candidates and their followers and don't focus on issues bedeviling the nation. Like a pack of cats, the golden opportunity that we have been offered to change the trajectory of bad leadership might just be crumbled on the altar of free volities and absurdities. We remember that we've been talking about hate speech, we've been talking about fake news, we've been talking about a lot of other things and this is the time to guard against all those things. With the recent documentary revealing Nigerian social media influencers being paid to drive false narratives about opposition parties and candidates, not also neglecting the cyberbullying of opposition supporters, they are about 84 million, over 84 million voters in Nigeria with a large percentage still indecisive on whom to vote come 25th of February and the manipulated narratives shared across social media platforms can or may influence their choices in the coming election. Remember that the Northern Elders Forum just said a few days ago, a few hours actually ago, that the Northern Elders have not decided on who to follow. They are still sitting on the fence and trying to get insights from the people who are contesting. Well, we're being joined by Mr. Stephen Keffers, Human Rights Defender, Citizens' Journalists and Good Governance Advocate. Good morning and welcome to the program Mr. Keffers. Thank you for having me. We also have Ubeni La, a social commentator. Good morning and welcome to the program La. Good morning. Thank you for having me. Okay, it's interesting that both of you are in the UK, am I right? First of all, I'd like to just know what level of excitement the diasporans are having towards this 2023 election? What is the general feeling of those of you who are outside the shores of Nigeria as we approach 2023 election? Let me start with Ubeni La. I think more than ever, people in diaspora are very interested in the forthcoming election. I would say this is due to the social media frenzy. I think for the first time, people feel more part of the process even though people living in diaspora are not going to be voting but they feel more part of the process. So we are excited and we feel part of it. I believe Mr. Keffers, we share the same opinion. Okay, Keffers, not taking the exact words that I just used for Ubeni La right now, we have had three presidential hopefuls come to Chatham House which eventually is in the UK where you are. What are your takeaways from what they presented at the Chatham House? What did it say about Nigeria and the image of Nigeria outside and how does that make you feel as a Nigerian after listening to the three of the four major contenders in the forthcoming elections? Thank you very much. I think for the first time in a long time, we are approaching an election where we've seen some level of conversation from the top candidates. A few days ago, one of the candidates was in the UK, Chatham House as you rightly said and we saw an intense conversation. We saw Nigerians living in the diaspora asking critical questions on how they intend to govern. It's not about I'll do this, I'll do that, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. No, it's about telling us how you are going to do it. I really enjoyed the conversation and other candidates were there too even though not too impressive. But generally at least we've seen some level of seriousness where candidates are ready to talk to the people. I think that is what really matters. It means it's no longer business as usual where candidates put up some form of black and desiccate attitude and then just come get votes and they'll be in power. This time around we're beginning to see a deliberate attempt by the candidates to engage the electorate. Like you said, like Obeni rightly said, those of us in the diaspora will not be voting because our laws, our electoral laws do not permit that. But then it has created this level of awareness and whether we like it or not, even though we will not be voting we can also influence families and friends back home who also have roles to play in the election. Obeni touched on that. He said the frenzy came because of the awareness created on the social media and all that. So let me go back to Obeni right now. Obeni, in a nutshell, what would you describe the place of, how would you describe rather the place of social media on the 2023 Nigerian general election? Thank you very much. Social media and how it affects the election, social media has been like the new media and we've seen how important it is. Even aside politics, it now talents in Nigeria the youth demography in Nigeria has been using it to better their life. And coming to the forthcoming election, there are several ways we can use the social media to also influence people's decision. Social media is just this borderless platform and that's why people in diaspora, they can partake in how they influence people back home using social media platforms. You mentioned, I think before the program started when we were chatting about how influencers are being paid. What are these influencers? People using social media, how do celebrities as social media produce? And we see how strong their opinions is on their followers. So that shows how important social media is to the forthcoming election, as we've been saying. I hope I answered your question. Yes, because I'm also going to Stephen to add something to that. How strong do you think the social media is going to influence the forthcoming election, whether for good or for bad? Absolutely, the social media is the main thing as far as this conversation is concerned. In 2015, from 2014 we saw how powerful the social media can be. We saw how the social media was used against a sitting president who was bullied, who was harassed, insulted, misinformation was spread about him, and eventually he lost the election. Now, and we have to understand that this thing called social media is a very powerful tool. And sadly, it's being used in the wrong way these days where people are paid to use it to malign other people, which is not really good. But then, we cannot dispute the fact that whether we like it or not, the social media is going to play a very powerful role because even these days, some radio and TV stations get their news sources from the social media. You know, when I read the BBC documentary, I was like, wow, because they captured everything. Like you go to the street, you go to the market, you see people discussing what was said on Facebook, even though they themselves are not on Facebook, but they are discussing what was said on Facebook about the candidate. So that how powerful the social media has come to be and it's going to play a key role on deciding the crop of leaders we are going to be having in the next election. Okay, well, social media, powerful tool. But it was written off by some of the candidates even who are using the social media now that it's just something that will not hold water. For instance, there are some people who were advocating for a change in the kind of leadership that we have and then they said there were only social media warriors. Do you think whoever is talking on social media or however powerful the social media is, it will translate into votes in the physical? Will it ever be that way? Do you think Nigerians are strong enough, strong-willed enough, ripe enough to know that if they are talking on social media, they should also translate whatever they are saying into physical votes that will come? Absolutely. What gave you that confidence? Okay, let me explain. In my Facebook page, I have about 20,000 followers and in the last 10 years, I've grown to be this influential that whenever I write, it's been taken very seriously by my followers, especially those from Katharuna. Now, that gives me an understanding that I cannot just write anything because these guys take whatever I write to the streets and they run with it. Now, talking about the election, let's go back to 2015. We all know what happened. Most of the misinformation against the sitting president then started from the social media and it spread like wildfire down to the street, down to the market, down to the remotest of communities in Nigeria. So, and this thing has a way of persuading people and influencing their decisions. Imagine if I write on my Twitter handle that a candidate A was seen killing somebody yesterday and because I'm an influencer and people believe I've never written stuffs that were not correct before, what do you think will happen? They will run with it before you know it everywhere and people don't even take time to check whether what I've said is true. As far as they are concerned, Timmy Kefal is an influencer and he said this candidate was seen killing somebody. I mean, it becomes facts. So, that is how powerful this thing is and like I said earlier, whether we like it or not, whatever happens in the social media plays a very important role in what happens at the pooling unit, at the world level and the local government level. Okay, Obaini, let me come back to you. From what Stephen has said, influencers have a very, very critical role to play. Unfortunately, some of these narratives may not even be true. So, in looking at that, do you think that the social media will make OMA the forthcoming election? Will it be that since, like in Nigeria, people are divided along sometimes party lines, sometimes ideological lines, sometimes financial lines, as it is, because some people, like we have said, are being paid. Whether they like the ideology of the person paying them or not, but they like the money that is coming from that person. I would say that the 2023 election may not have the kind of credibility it could have had without the social media. Or do you think the advantages of having the social media are more? Let us know your thoughts. First, before I answer your question, I'd like to backtrack to your earlier assertion about a presidential candidate that the social media will not make an impact on election day. I think that is very mischievous. Every time we mention social media on the program, we forget that WhatsApp also is social media. And I doubt if there is any serious political candidate or party that do not have groups on WhatsApp and all that. Now, don't forget that whatever people like Kefa was a major following on Facebook or Twitter, whatever they post, this thing comes back as busy on WhatsApp and you know how far it goes. Even people that are very literate, they have WhatsApp and is what they see the wrong with. I think the social media is going to play a pivotal role on the forthcoming election. And coming to your question, I think it would be backward for us as a people to be thinking along the line that would the election have been more credible without social media? Social media is part of human development. We need to run with it. I think it is our responsibility and duty to make the best of it. It is a developmental innovation and invention. So it be also known as a people to use it positively to our benefit and development. And you mentioned people being paid. Yeah, it has always... I've always had this discussion within myself of people because being an influencer is a job. I would know about that. I also have as much as 20,000 followers on Facebook even though I try not to call myself an influencer. But I know it is a job. So do you say a lawyer should not collect money to represent a client? So it becomes like a moral issue and not a legal one because, like I said earlier, being an influencer is a job. So what I think is we should be advocating it for people to love their country more than themselves and hopefully would have people with conscience. Personally myself, even with my followers, have refused to influence for any candidate in the forthcoming election. And despite having my own personal candidate but because of this moral issue of can you justify within yourself this money you've collected to do this job, this influencing job, you know? And this is also a fallout of this cyberbullying we've been seeing because some people that maybe let me use Mr. Kefras as an example. If you have followers that over the time they've believed in you. And at the end of the day, as a person yourself, you have this political choice to choose who you want to support. Now, you might be doing this out of your conscience that this is who I believe in. And by the virtue of your position as an influencer, you might also get paid for that your belief. Now, you have followers that do not necessarily share the same belief with you. Maybe your choice is a non-popular one on social media. And they come at you for your choice. People that have been, you know, your followers, they come at you and we start hearing phrases like, kansu kocho. So, these are things I think we should discourse. And this brings me back to say we must love our country more than ourselves. This is the solution I see. So that when you love your country more than yourself, one, you respect people's choice. Because this is the beauty and challenge of democracy. Majority of the people are not always right. That's the challenge. But then, that's how democracy runs. People should be free to support whoever they like. But we should just keep advocating that they love their country more than themselves so that hopefully, people will not support candidates or influence for candidates based on Haruka interest or for the love of the country. Okay, Stephen. Now, the dilemma we're finding ourselves in is that, on the one hand, when you said there is a business to be done and money to be made, food should be on the table because of what you know how to do. And on the other hand, there is morality. You're thinking about what is right. And patriotism, you're thinking about your country, what is good for the country. Just this morning, I got a call and someone was saying that I'm going to vote for a particular candidate but I am campaigning for another candidate and I asked why and he said because the other candidate has money and we have to partake of that money and then, on the day of election, we vote for someone else. So I don't know. How can we make this social media work for us? Because even though everybody has freedom of expression but there's a way that it can cost havoc as well for us as a people, maybe just because we want something, we want to get it immediately. We leave patriotism, we leave morality, we leave everything that makes us a people of integrity. So how can we make this social media work to our advantage as a people rather than dividing us because a lot of things that happen on the social media if not checked properly could divide us as a country, could divide us as a people. So how do we make it work in our advantage? Thank you very much. Obeni has said so much on how this thing work but then there's an angle I want us to look at. I personally have tried to be very careful when it comes to talking about candidates on my social media platform. Even though this year I had to break my own rules. Sometimes I want to talk about certain candidates because of the qualities I believe they have. Now the problem here is yes, influencing is a business. They are businessmen just like the lawyers, the doctors and other professions. Of course they could be paid to influence or sell certain candidates. But the issue here is this. Now when you are paid to sell a candidate there is something, there's a repercussion. And what is a repercussion? You automatically lose the moral ground to want to hold a candidate accountable in the future. Now, because even when the candidate ends up not doing what he promised to do, you cannot call him or her out because you were paid to support him. Many times on my social media platform I challenge politicians. I said if you know you've ever given Stephen a time to sell you or to campaign or to influence people to vote for you, please speak up. And nobody, no politician in Nigeria or in Kaduna has ever come out to say, Stephen, I paid you money. They've been offers. They've reached out to me, Stephen, you have the followership. In Kaduna people believe whatever you say. Guy, come, let's have a deal. I said no, if you are good I will support you without collecting money from you. So I think if we begin to have this mindset how much are they going to give me? Maybe 1 million, maybe 2 million, maybe 3 million, maybe 5 million. That money is not enough to take care of me in four years. So patriotism is key, like Ogbeni rightly said. Once we are patriotic, once we have love for our countries we begin to see beyond just the money that we are going to get from this politician and not just getting money to influence who people vote but then getting money to misinform the people. I think that's the bone of contention here. You get money to tell lies. I've seen a lot of lies on cyberspace and thank God for some fact-checking outfits who are coming to fact-check some of these things and pointing out the lies, pointing out the fact. I think they are also doing a good job but there's something that is shocking. When these fact-checkers do their fact-checking and maybe tweet it, they hardly get the retweet because nobody wants to know that this thing has been fact-checked and that is the problem and that goes to show that it is not about patriotism it is about the Benjamin, the money. What am I going to be paid? And like you rightly said, this can throw the country into chaos. We saw it in the post-election crisis of 2011. I was in Northern Nigeria. We saw what happened. Corpus were killed. A lot of people were killed. In fact, your name alone tells the other person who you voted for. In 2011, people were killed based on their tribe, their religion because they believed that if you are from the south you voted for Gulag Jonathan. I saw a lot of people being killed in Kaduna during that post-election crisis. Now, we won't want a repeat of that but sadly, like Ogbeni rightly said the social media is a borderline platform. There's no border. There's no wall. There's no gate. So it's very difficult to control. But then one way out is orientation. We need to keep orienting the people at the grassroots level so that they will also have a mechanism to see what they hear from their influencers. I mean, they don't just swallow everything hook, line, and sinker. When the influencers say something, they should have the ability or a mechanism to see it, to check, ah, this thing, is it true? Instead of just running with it and before you know it it begins to spread like wildfire. So I think if we can do that media houses like yours can do a lot of jingles, a lot of orientation, a lot of messages, you know, in different languages outside, Yoruba, Igbo, like telling the people that hey look, it's not everything that comes from this social media is fact. Sometimes you've got to check it. You've got to see it. Just a moment, Stephen. Yeah, thank you. It's not like I'm trying to cut you. Just hold your thoughts for a moment. We just need to take a short break and when we return we'll continue with what you are saying right now. Both of you gentlemen, just stay on. When we come back we'll talk about this patriotism more in depth and the things that we should look out for because when we talk about social media we also talk about the traditional media as well because these are all avenues where we talk to our people. So what should people be looking out for? So that even if there's someone out there looking out for 1000, 2000 or 100,000 as the case may be just to make money off this election season we should also try to talk to the people of deeper needs that our nation should have so that our nation beyond 2023 will be a better country for everybody to live in. Maybe by that time both of you will not be in a diaspora because everything you need in the UK will be in Nigeria. So just stay on after the break we'll continue with what we've been discussing. You're welcome back. It's still the run up and my name is Nyam Gul Agadji. I've been talking with Stephen Keffas an exiled human rights defender citizens, journalists and good governance advocate and also I have Ogbeni La a social commentator. We're talking about the cyber war will I call it that because social media war so to speak where some candidates are doing some things to others. Okay, followers of some candidates are doing some things propaganda here and there, fake news here and there sometimes some information that you see as outright bizarre but they are going on. I've seen videos where people are being warned not to go out and vote because of one thing or the other and then you find out it's just a voice over. You find out the pictures do not even match with the voice and all that but there seems some people somewhere are desperate about some things. I don't know who is behind what but what we're concerned about is that we want the credibility of the 2023 election to be top notch. We want 2023 to be a defining factor or defining year for Nigeria and everybody is praying for that but if this continues on the social media this kind of a war sometimes telling people wrong stories and all that it may not do or go well for us as a country but as we're talking about this war we also need to know or to tell the people what the people need to know what Nigeria stands to gain or lose if the right things are not done because some people may not know and they'll just follow the current. So we're still talking with Steven and Ogbeni right here. Let me start with Ogbeni because Steven was the last one who was talking before we went on the break. Ogbeni, now, patriotism is something that is as important as blood is for the human being because you want to take care of yourself you don't want to lose blood and die you want to take care of yourself and if a country has to survive as a country we need to love that country like we love our bodies and the blood that is in us, in our veins but patriotism may not be in our society as much as it should be if you had the chance Ogbeni what would you do to imbibe the culture of patriotism in the average Nigerian child? Thank you very much If I had the chance I would erect structures for re-orientation in Nigeria I think we used to have something during the Paso Angel presidency the National Orientation Agency was very active then I remember some jingles that I used to run on our traditional media then asking people to love the country and all that I think it was although the effect was slow but I think it was effective if the momentum has been kept I think we would have had more political literacy in the country leading to this particular election think that people need re-orientation what it means for a country to work and now it benefits more people we are very selfish and people are fine they don't think of the other but if you look at countries that work it's more connected we need a country no matter who you are in the society you have access to basic stuff like education health and all that and that can only be achievable if you do collective interest so if I have a chance I think it would be re-orientation that's what I would do I want to stay on your particular question if you have branches let's know them now because we are really concerned about this issue the people that our society models children nowadays after the template has changed from what it used to be in the past and now if you talk about re-orientation it's a changing world and we have to evolve with this aside this commitment I think what we also lack is accountability Mr. Kefas mentioned the other time even when we have misinformation on social media by people that have been paid and we have fat checkers pointing it out so what becomes of it afterwards I think the bodies that are supposed to implement because I know we have cyber laws but are they being when people fall off it what happens next the executive organ of the government that are started with the responsibility of implementing these laws are they doing so because if someone is wrong with misinformation let's say they are being paid and like I said earlier I believe is my personal opinion that they have the right to be paid to do the job they do but what they do not have the right to do is to pass misinformation that is illegal that is no longer a moral issue so when we have other people fat checking these things and bringing it out so what happens afterwards so I would say aside the reorientation of the people about civic responsibilities and duties I would also say the executive organ of the government in Nigeria should be alive to their duties they should hold people accountable if you are wrong for laws this is no longer a moral issue this is illegal or illegal matter you should be accountable that is also what I would do if I was in a position let me come to you Steve what would you do because people like you with thousands upon thousands of followers you surely as you have said say some things choose your words let me put it that way choose your words when you are writing anything on your wall because the people take it some of them who line and sink so what would you say can help Nigeria to develop to cultivate this patriotism that will help us do the right thing even in the face of fake news in the face of propaganda in the face of a lot of things because of some selfish interest thank you very much patriotism is a two way thing for someone to want to be patriotic to his country his country must also be ready to be patriotic to him we've seen a lot of unaccountability when those saddled with the mandate to do certain things there is a common requirement for the people are not doing it like protection of lives and properties and of course and I've read Nigeria and just feel I don't owe the country anything because the country doesn't do nothing for me the country doesn't secure me the country doesn't protect me so that is a mindset but then the national orientation agency before I left Nigeria I was with the former DG I used to work with the former DG for Mary who was the DG during good luck Jonathan I think he left office in 2015 when the current APC government came to power and while he was DG that agency was up and running so I interviewed him because the national orientation agency is a very powerful agency of government but because in Nigeria I was worried that that agency has been neglected for far too long the funding to the agency is poor the people saddled with the responsibility to manage the agency seem not to understand the importance of that agency to the country now this is an election year have you heard the national orientation agency doing anything they are not doing much why? it is deliberate because during that interview I found out that the political elites some of them in government they know that if that agency is up and running effectively it will be able to correct some of the ills we have in society today and they know that if these ills are corrected they stand the chance of losing their political relevance it is just like when you go to northern Nigeria for instance you see the literacy level is very high it is a lot of out of school children it is deliberate because when you empower these people by educating them I mean they become useful to themselves and society they will now know what is good and bad they will now be able to decipher a good politician and a bad politician so there is a deliberate attempt by the political elite in Nigeria to weaponize poverty that once the election year like this they come, the bamboos do people and they get their vote so patriotism cannot be patriotism if the other party is not keeping its own side of the bargain it cannot be patriotic to my country but my country should protect me so we need to begin to advocate that the national orientation agency must be allowed to run effectively every country has such an agency and they play a key role in fact that is the image maker of the country that is the agency that preach morality preach patriotism what to do and what not to do but ours is dying in fact ours is dead already so that agency I am very glad when it brought that up and because I have interviewed the former DG of that agency that agency need to be revived competent people need to be appointed to help the agency so that we can begin to see a new image for Nigeria because if the national orientation agency is doing its duty as it ought to do I am telling you the issue of influence has been paid money to misinform the public will not even be a problem because you have an agency of government that has access to major television and radio stations in all languages in Nigeria that is a powerful tool even more than the social media because they can do jingles in household language and you have all the radio stations including international radio stations that are airing these jingles it is going a long way and during Noba Sanjo we saw in market places on billboard we saw messages that tend to preach patriotism and I mean as a child then this particular one changed begins with me and some of these jingles even in primary school sometimes we are meant to recite these things with excitement but today is not there but thank god this is a media platform if you can preach this message that agency in fact the interview I had with Dr. Mary was in May last year just two months before I left the country and he told me something he said this is election the national orientation agency ought to be up and running informing Nigeria telling them things they need to know about the election and also INEC2 has a role to play because INEC also has a department for voter education but have you really seen them doing any education? no there is a system there is a corrupt system there is a terrible system in place meant to make sure that the status quo remain because if the status quo change certain people will lose political relevance gentlemen we really have to wrap up but not until we get your thoughts few thoughts remember that we started with the cyber war the social media war as it were and we talked about this war as just amplifying frivolities things that are not important at all so we moved from there to the crux of the matter the things that are really important that Nigerians should begin to know but coming personally to you now apart from the snow that you find in the UK, in America and the rest of those parts of the globe every other thing can also be heard in Nigeria and I'm sure that if some particular things are put in place the two of you who are in diaspora could have still been in Nigeria so let me start with Obeni what are some of the policies that you would like the next government to put in place so that people like you may not even need to travel to the UK to make ends meet and everybody will have their individual ones but as briefly as possible Obeni tell us some of the things that you expect after the forthcoming election and when the new government comes in let me quickly say I relocated because I married somebody staying in the UK and I'm always coming to Nigeria every time I have a lot of interest I believe so much in the country there are no special policies I would like to correct this misimpression that Nigeria is done and all that the potentials the country has many countries that are functioning well do not have it even as it is at the moment we just need good leadership and most importantly we need accountability Nigeria does not necessarily need new laws new policies with what we have at the moment we should make the best use of them we have not maximized them the laws we have already to what percentage are they being enforced at the moment the policies that are already there to what percentage are they being implemented and I think it all boils down to this patriotism we should have the love of the country and we should give it our best choice whoever imagines we are warned we should just give it our best shot that's what I would say let me come to you Stephen you are on exile you are a rights defender a citizens journalist a good governance advocate definitely you would have still been in Nigeria some circumstances may have led you to leave the country but if there were not there or some things were put in place you could have still been in Nigeria what are you expecting from the next administration so that you or people like you will not need to run away from the country you will be here to contribute your quota security of lives and property I tell people that is the primary responsibility of any government anywhere in the world once you can guarantee the safety of your citizens I'm telling you they can do anything on their own what most Nigerians are asking for is that let them be safe in their country let their businesses be safe Nigerians are hardworking if there was security I bet you many of us would be back home me personally have escaped countless threats and attempts so you got to a point friends had to like you have to leave this country I kept dragging my feet because I love Nigeria in fact the other day I woke up I told my guy I said I want to go back to Nigeria the guy said are you sick you know but then there needs to be security in Nigeria if that is the only thing the next government will achieve I'm telling you most of us would want to return back to the country because there are a lot of potential there are a lot of opportunities there even better than what we have in some of these countries thank you gentlemen we've been talking with Stephen Kephas the human rights defender and citizens journalist government advocate he likes all those titles to him and we like it for him as well and also we're talking with Benila a social commentator eventually both of them are in the UK but they still love Nigeria and would like to thank you gentlemen for coming on the show this morning thank you okay we'll take a short break now in order for us to bring you the news and when we return we wrap up the show thank you