 Yeah man, holiday check Thursday night. I'm Tony Bruno. I wanna welcome everybody in tonight. We are going to have a good chat tonight and we're just gonna have some fun. We're gonna chill and we're gonna talk to Ivy. I want to give a couple shout outs tonight. First of all, I wanna give a big shout out to Anthony Dream Johnson and Alyssa for the birth of their new baby girl, Charlotte Dream Johnson. So everybody give a big congratulations to Anthony and Alyssa. Also, anybody that's watching on 21 Studios tonight, this is a simulcast from my channel, Tony Bruno T21 Surfer. And I'm gonna make a quick disclaimer saying that basically tonight, this simulcast is from my channel does not necessarily represent the views and opinions of 21 Studios and any affiliated channels and content. But that's where we are tonight. But I do wanna welcome everybody in, man. We're gonna have a good time tonight, that's for sure. Let me see, anything else? Yes, tonight too, see this shirt relentless. This is Tactical Soap, Tactical Soap Company. It's a great company. It's a company that's built by a man, four men. There's all sorts of great products. I spend a lot of time in the sun. We got some great stuff right here. This is a body butter. This is great, man. I spend a lot of time in the sun. I have a construction business, surfing, things like that. That's really great deodorant, awesome. And of course soap, gotta get it, man. All this stuff has a little bit of pheromone confusion in it, so good stuff. Scott Carr's an awesome friend of mine. So anybody's interested, there's links down below. Check it out, use my code KING, you get 10% off. So, but without further ado, we're gonna jump right into this and we are going to welcome Ivy tonight. There she is. Hi. How you doing? Good, good. Good, anything good with you tonight? Yeah, just a long day. Okay, good. This is your first time on a YouTube stream? I would have been. Yes. Yeah? Yes, it is. Right on. I hope you're not nervous. We're just gonna chill. We're gonna talk with you. Anybody watching, no disrespect tonight. This is not man and spirit content. This is just a conversation. Something I like to do is talk about different things. And tonight's topic is going to be about adult content and Ivy is an adult content creator. Now, the phenomenon will say only fans and adult content is not something, me being a little older is not something that I grew up with. I mean, adult content to me was a playboy magazine you found underneath your dad's bed or something like that. But it's changed so rapidly. Okay, so I'm not familiar with it and hopefully Ivy's gonna shed some light on what she does and why she does it. And of course the chat, you are welcome to ask questions. Not right now, but we're gonna talk to her first. So Ivy, again, how are you? Good, good. Good. I think the first question to ask is, let's talk about your background a little bit. We don't wanna get too personal, but as far as like how you grew up and things like that, maybe family conditions, without giving personal information. Well, I grew up mainly with my mom. Hardworking mom, it was me, my brother and my sister. We had a good childhood, I mean, loving family. I moved around a lot though, since my mom was single mom when I was born. So that was a little difficult, but my mom always made it through. We're always very close, our family. My dad was a big family guy, but of course we saw him only on the weekends and stuff, but we always had family trips and things like that. I don't know. No, you're doing good. That's good. I mean, this is just kind of a background into, maybe people can really- Well, I'm the baby in the family. I'm the youngest. That's a tough one. That's a protected child right there. Yes, definitely. Definitely more protected than anything. So how old are you? 29. 29, okay. So let's go back now to, if anybody too, I want to tell anybody, I left links in the description of the videos. It's a link tree for Ivy. So it has all her Instagram. I think it's, is it OnlyFans and- OnlyFans, Twitter, Instagram. So you guys give her a follow or whatever and check her out. So she's got some good photos on there. I can attest to that. Thank you. So what got you interested in the adult content creation? Really curious. Well, my boyfriend kind of pushed me into it a little more. We were long distance for the first year of our relationship. So a lot of pictures on my phone being passed back and forth. And I actually started, I started a online, I don't know if you know, FetLife. So I kind of started on there, kind of just self-love, posting my pictures and being able to feel comfortable with posting pictures somewhere without, I don't know, I guess Instagram. So a lot of hate, I don't know. So like that website was kind of just more people that were in the lifestyle and stuff like that. And then from there, I kind of just started getting comfortable with it and decided to make myself an OnlyFans just to see how I would do. And then I just started slowly doing other things, started modeling, trying to do modeling and signing up for other pages. And yeah, that's kind of how it unfolded. Okay. Now you had said something, what was the first thing you said? Something Fet? FetLife. What is that? Now, does that stand for fetish? Yeah. Okay. So what type of fetishes like are on there? Wow, that's thunder here. Oh, on that there's like all types of fetishes, a lot different fetishes on there. Some that I've never even heard of or anything, but I kind of just signed up. Yeah, I mean, like a fetish would be like somebody who's like feet or hands or- Yeah, feet or- It could be some really weird shit too, I'm sure. Yeah, a lot of weird stuff, tying off. I mean, just the word fetish is kind of, that's enough to make me cringe a little, you know? But I guess, you know- It's not too crazy. It's more of like the open lifestyle that a lot of people aren't, you know, really into. I mean, it's starting to get more popular, being less enclosed and everything like that and more open to other things. Can I ask you, what was your, like, what was your genre of fetish on there? Did you have a- No, not really. It was more like for me just to be comfortable and posting and get comfortable with my body and everything like that and be able to be okay with posting stuff like that without feeling like I'm different or, you know, getting backlash or anything from it. Okay, cool. I want to, let me pause you real quick. I want to just give everybody a shout. There's so many people in here, man. I haven't seen, I see. Oh, Timmy Kramer, good to see you. QB Passport Flex and man, good to see you. Of course, self-made, my brother. Uncle Guns, Woody Johnson. Who else do we have here? I don't know, there's so many, but we have a lot of people from 21 also, so, but yeah, thanks everybody for showing up. And I don't know, maybe in 30 minutes or so, everybody I sent links to, you're welcome to jump on the panel and talk to Ivy. Okay, let me ask you a question. So when you started this, let's go back to family. Did you get any, get any clap back from family? Because they don't really know. Okay, all right, well, that's one way. All right, that's funny. I mean, I'm a grown woman. I mean, if I don't have to share it with someone that I don't want to share with, you know. I get that, but again, you're still the baby, so. I am the baby. But I'm not so baby anymore. Yeah, exactly. So, okay, cool. All right, so you have your, what is your main, I guess your main platform, would it be OnlyFans? OnlyFans and Instagram, I'm on most. Okay, but I mean, the most, we'll say the poor, people come to see you. They're not really coming to see you on Instagram, but to really see you, they're coming to OnlyFans. OnlyFans or MFC. Okay, I don't know, what is MFC? My Free Cams. Okay, cool. All right, are you familiar with, you know, and I do want to say anybody that's like a hater out there about this right now, I think a lot of people in this whole community, there's a guy named Andrew Tate, I'm sure you heard. Yes. Andrew Tate had started his, basically his fortune from Cams. That's what he did. I'm not sure you're aware of that. Fortune from what? From Cam Girls. Oh, from Cam Girls. That's what he did. No, I didn't know that at all, actually. Exactly where he started, from my understanding. Okay, so that's kind of how we built, I think the beginning of his fortune. Not to, you know, I don't think he made his big money. He's a fourth time world champion kickboxer, but I don't think that's where his, his real bread and butter came from. So, but I think his Cam World is really what brought him, brought him some fortune for sure. So I guess my first thing is a lot of people out there. So if, you know, this is what Andrew Tate did. So is there a difference between what Andrew Tate's doing and what Ivy's doing? Just a question. So like I said, any haters out there, things like that. So, you know, you might not like Andrew Tate. I met him, probably was a cool dude. I wish the best for him and I hope he pulls through the whole mess that he's in right now. I stopped knowing what's going on with him. I didn't know to begin with and then you just hear it from social media and like people talking about it, but I don't really stay in the loop with people. Yeah, I'm kind of been out of loop myself. So, so what is your demographic? What is the, when I say your demographic, what's the typical, maybe you don't know, maybe you do your, the typical guy, like say on your only fans that interacts with you. Is he younger, is he older, is he, you know, do you get to see these guys too? I'm gonna multiple questions. So do you get to like? I think it's very broad, to be honest. There's a lot of young guys and a lot of older guys. I don't think too old. I mean, I think maybe 40, like not, not like 60 or 70, but I never know, I don't see them like that. It's, I can chat with them, but I don't really talk or see them to know much about them. There's a few people that, you know, we do sometimes they want us cam to cam and stuff like that, but nothing really like conversations or anything like that. Just on like the cam. Okay, let's talk about a typical only fans. What do you call it? Session or when you go live? Tell me how it works first of all. Only fans is kind of like a Twitter, but like you pay for it. You kind of post, I mean, all girls do it differently. You post whatever you want on your live feed and they pay monthly for it. So like whatever you post, they pay for what they see and then some girls have it free and then you can request specific things. So it's all different. I do mainly you pay and then if you want something special or special requests or something different then just hit me up in the DM and stuff like that, but. I still not, I guess I'm not understanding it. So you do like you, like we're doing now a live stream. This would be like my free cams, but I wouldn't see you. It would just be me on the camera and then a chat box. Okay, okay, cool. So when somebody can request something, they could say, hey, I wanna see you. Yeah, you have like a little message board on only fans. Can they private message you for something? Like is that, does it work? Yeah. You see what I'm saying? He might say, you know, I don't know. I want your face down in the bed, your ass in the air. I don't know. And you're like, okay, but do you get like an upcharge? Yeah, it just depends and whatever I'm comfortable with to be honest, if I don't feel comfortable doing something, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do it. And it would be like, hey, sorry, like I don't feel comfortable doing that. You know, I still have my boundaries. I'm trying to do more modeling than anything to be honest. It's like, okay. Now everybody has boundaries, you know, there's always boundaries and especially in dating and relationships. I mean, basically you have relationships with your fans. It's not, I guess it's, geez, I don't know how I would explain it. I guess it can be intimate and personal, but not really, right? Yeah. Yes and no. I mean, a lot of people don't really interact like that. They're just looking for specific things, but it's not like personable, personable. Like I'm not talking about my life or anything like that. It's just, it's kind of like acting. That's how I kind of think of it. So do you have Ivy during the day, then you have Ivy on her adult content? Yeah, basically. So are you, I would imagine you're able to switch that off. You have to switch that off. Yeah, of course. It's not my everyday persona. It's just what I do on the side. And also, you know, a little more, I don't know how to explain it. No, I mean, yeah, explain it the best you can. Absolutely. I don't know. It's kind of empowering also, I guess you could say, to be able to be open with your body and stuff like that, especially on OnlyFans, cause it is like a Twitter in a way that you can post whatever you wanna post. And if people wanna pay to see that, then they pay. And if they don't, they don't. Now you recently participated in something called Exotica. We had a private chat last week, you had mentioned that. And I didn't wanna ask you about it then. So what was that? I believe you said it was in Miami. It was, Exotica is like a fetish convention kind of, where they have all sorts of things. They have people teaching about open relationships. And then they also have, they have like a fetish room where they have, you know, whips and chains and stuff like that. And MFC was, I had a table there. So I was part of the MFC table. So we kind of just went live there. Was live for a little bit. And then walked around with my friend just to check it out. They had like music and shows, kind of just like a regular convention, just more sexual. And so the purpose of you going there was for what, to promote yourself? Yeah, and just to promote MFC and to be a, just to show up as a model there. Okay. Do they pay you for that? No. No, okay. I think it's more of promotion really. And they gave out a bunch of stuff, swag stuff for being a model. Okay. Cool. Yeah, I just, I'm just really curious on like, like all this stuff. I mean, again, you know, this is the whole, you know, only fans thing, really. I want to say it took off. I researched a bit and it started in 2016. And I would say during the pandemic, that seemed to be, people talked about it a lot. I noticed in certain circles and on YouTube and things like that, that, you know, women not making money could make a lot of money. Yeah. I feel like a lot of, I wasn't really on it that much during that time because I did work throughout the whole quarantine. But I do know, I do hear that it was really good for whoever wasn't working and needed to make money because everyone was home. And I guess people were bored and only fans was the place to be. Yeah, I mean, you know, I guess, you know, people aren't going out. So that's what they chose to do. So, but I think that even, I mean, from what I can see, you know, you can go on Instagram and you see a lot of different girls. You're an attractive woman, but you also see women that aren't that attractive on there. Does that do well? I mean, a beauty is in the eye of the beholder, you know? So there's someone out there for everyone out there. I don't think whoever is, it's per person, you know? Like you can think I'm beautiful and someone over here on the chat or whatever probably thinks I'm not beautiful. It is what it is. There's people that think people are ugly that other people don't really find attractive at all. So. Yeah, no, I totally get that. Like I'm not, you know, I, you know, I think in a lot of this space that, you know, I've been in, like I said, this is, and I don't really consider this man as for your content, but you know, we have what we call dick police here, which means everybody like will jump on somebody because the girl they're with isn't attractive or they don't think they're attractive. She's overweight or she's this or she's that. I get that, but dick police on YouTube and spaces like this are just huge. So, you know, but to me, like I don't, I don't care who's attracted to who I really don't. I've said this before. In fact, I've said this on a lot of streams. You want to see the happiest couples go to Walmart. You see what I'm saying? I mean, you know, you'll see a lot of very unattractive couples there that they're happy as hell with each other. Of course. I mean, also, I mean, if we're talking about couples and relationships, I mean, I don't think looks are everything cause, but if you're planning on being with someone for a long time, your looks aren't going to be the same when you're young. So you've got to be with someone that you love inside too. It's not, it's not about looks really to be honest. If you're speaking a partner, it's about connection and who you are as a person inside more than anything. And this is going to segue into it. One of the questions I got here for you, I'm going to ask you this question. And I'm, and there's a reason why I'm asking this question. You don't need to know the reason it doesn't matter, but I think this will kind of resonate with a lot of guys in this space. Okay. Okay. Is there anything like a guy can say to you, okay? That if you are not attracted to them to get you attracted? Something them to say. Can they say something? Can they spit some game at you if you are not attracted to them that would, that would honestly spitting game. I think if you're trying too hard, if you're not attractive to me per se would get you even more unattractive for me. I think being your real self and being honest would probably catch my attention more than hearing someone try to use a pick up line on me to be honest. The reason I say that is because I think that, man, there's, I think there's a lot of people that say that you can, you know, I'm a believer that, you know, attraction is just attraction. You cannot choose who you are attracted to. But I don't think anybody can, I don't think you can build attraction, but I sure think you can damage it. That's just my opinion. So that's why I wanted to ask you that question. That's why I wanted to ask you that. Is there, is there anything that somebody could say to you that you're not say even physically attracted to you that you get them attracted to you? I can't think of the top of my head, but definitely, I don't know. Like I said, honesty, I mean, I don't know. I'm trying to just think of what someone would have said to like back in the day when I was, I don't know. That's a tough one, isn't it? Yeah, I mean. You're being very honest right now and there was a specific reason for that question. Okay, because that's a big question in certain, we'll say certain circles. That's a big question. Yeah, I don't know. I can't go. Well, you're answering that. I'm gonna say that's probably a no or a hard no. I don't know. All right, let me ask, let me go down one. Maybe, I don't know. Let me go down another road. Say right off the bat, you're not attracted to say this certain type of guy. Do you think that can happen at some point, even if you're not initially? Yeah, I think that could definitely happen if I got to know the person because, just because you're not initially attracted to someone off just meeting them, like I feel like you can build attraction through knowing a person, to be honest. Cause it's happened to me that my initial thought was like, oh, that person's not my type. But then like after a few interactions and talking to them, I realized that, oh, maybe the looks aren't my normal my normal attraction, but that doesn't mean that who they are isn't. Like that doesn't mean we don't click or we haven't a connection. So... What about money? What about when he will say money and status? When I say status, what about somebody that might be famous or they're not attractive and has a lot of money? Would that make a difference? No, not at all. Not for me, I don't care. Like if I'm not attracted to you and I don't have a connection with you, I don't care how rich you are. I really don't. I rather, like I'm a person that I rather make my own money and do what I can and have a partner that can do the same beyond the same level. Or you know, if he makes a little more money than I do, it is what it is, but it's not about the money. I think if you can grow with a person and you know, some people have down times and you know, the other person picks up that slack and vice versa. So... Okay. Yeah, no, I'm glad you're being honest about this because these are, I think there's a lot of questions that guys have, believe it or not. And I think there's a lot of misconceptions on what women think, you know, when it comes to attraction and things like that. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different people out there. Like some women don't care about that. And if they have money, it's, you know, that's what they like. Yeah. Also too, I want to give a quick shout out to Pat Steadman. Pat Steadman sent out an email today and it was really interesting. It's a long one, but it's good. It's about basically, I guess if the email, in fact, if nobody's out there, get on Pat Steadman's email. He just sends out a couple of times a week. This one has to do with women's orniness. And so, and Pat really, really broke it down well. He really did. So anybody check it out. I think I got Pat Steadman's link in the video description. Go to, I think it's patsteadman.com but check it out and get on his email list. He does them probably two or three times a week and they're really good. This one was very interesting. He sent out today. So they check it out. But it's kind of in the ballpark of what we're talking about lately. Okay. Yeah. Check out Pat Steadman, everybody that's watching. Trying to see here, trying to see people in the chat. Do you want to, anybody you know in the chat, you want to shout out? I know you said you had some people. Do you see anybody that you know in there? No, not in the chat. Yeah. Anybody that knows Ivy from her, from any of her content and want to chime in, go for it. Let me see. What else do I got here? All right. I guess this question is off the table. I was wondering if you ever, were you, I think this is a question that anybody would ask. Were you ever, did you ever do like dancing, stripping, anything like that? Nope. No? Okay. Nope. Never. I think that would be a, I think that kind of would be, I think a lot of people think that that would be like prerequisite to what you're doing right now. Yeah. That's what popped into my head. I mean, I feel like a lot of people think, a lot of things about OnlyFans that aren't true, but also can be true too. It all depends on the person. I mean, if that's your choice, some women like doing that. You know, some women enjoy dancing on stage. Some people are that type of a person that they want to be interacted with. They want to have that interaction, but I, nope. I think I'm too shy for that. Yeah. Cause that was a question I got. I want to show this to, I want you a QB, thanks man. That's really nice man. QB passport flexing gave me my first super chat ever. I don't, I don't ask people for that, you know, YouTube recently monetized my channel, which is cool after about two and a half years. Yeah, YouTube appreciate it. I earned it. I deserved it, but you guys check out, and you guys watching on 21 studio too, check out QB passport flexing. QB is, I'll call him probably the main passport bro. He's the guy that he likes to travel and he meets a lot of beautiful women, but check out QB passport flexing. QB, thanks for that man. Appreciate it. Have you heard about the passport pros? Nope. Nope. Nope. What guys get their passports, you know, they're maybe they're fed up with women here in America and I can get that. I do, I understand that. I think I'm just fed up with people here, but that's another story. But so basically it's kind of a, it's kind of, I guess it's really not a newer thing, but I think it's really being promoted now to where, like I had talked to Elliot Holst about this, like, you know, what do you think of guys going to different countries and back to like their homeland to say I'm Italian. So I go to Italy to meet an Italian girl, but even Elliot Holst had said, you know, it's good to go to where you know. So I think a lot of these guys too have decided that maybe they do want a more either traditional woman or a different type of woman that's in the US. So, you know, big shout out to the passport pros. I think there's a lot of conflict there, but I think, you know, everybody has their own thing, but I think QB is kind of leading the charge on that, we'll just say. He's got a cool channel, always interesting, always a lot of fun. So it doesn't, you know, something doesn't have to be my thing or your thing, Ivy, to enjoy it, you know what I mean? So I think that, yeah, so. I mean, that's kind of like the fetish, everyone has their thing, everyone has their kink, everyone has their own opinion, own everything, and we have the right to have that. Absolutely, absolutely. So, but I do want to let anybody know that I gave invites to to jump on the panel. I might drop the StreamYard link and let anybody that I sent the StreamYard link to and you want to jump on, now's the time to do it. So if you want to chat with Ivy, I think there's quite a few people that I gave it to. So don't be shy, come on and talk with Ivy. Yeah, so we got a little music on. How do you like it? Very relaxing. That's good, that was the point. You were supposed to keep you chill, did I remember? Oh yeah, trying. Yeah, so, but I'm going to give it a salute. Thank you for coming on for sure. Thank you for having me. I'm just reading some of the things in the chat. Yeah, let's do, are you, you want to do a little AMA with the chat? So anybody in the chat that's watching live, if you have a question for Ivy, let's bring it up, throw it in the chat and we will, if she doesn't want to answer it, that's fine. I'm going to bring on my first guest here right now and it is the famous self-may. What's going on people? How you doing man? Hi. What's going on brother, what's going on Ivy? It's good to have you on man, you enjoying the show so far? Yeah, interesting. She said she was into, her first step in was fetish. So what are you, a dom or a sub? Definitely a sub, for the most part. I'll drink to that. But I think it also depends on who I'm, I guess around. So, okay. So what nationality are you? German-Italian. Oh, I see you, quite a combo, quite a combo. So, you have a German-Italian and a Russian-Italian here, so. Oh wow. We got, we got the hands around the world in here right now. Nothing, we got, I believe we got a Mexican-Italian, right self-may? Yeah, yeah, Sicilian, I'm not Italian. The Italians won't, the Italians won't, whatever you call me, won't claim me. So, all right, so you started it with on the fetish websites and then you moved on to only fans or no, the cam websites first and then only fans? No, the cam is, the camming is actually the newest thing for me. So, but yeah, definitely, definitely started with the fetish but that was more like of me breaking the barrier of, you know, putting more, I guess you could say, seductive photos up and kind of, it was more of like self-love for me, you know, trying to be more comfortable with my body and being able to post that with no judgment or anything like that. Okay, so you were like with the nationalities, you just stated you're probably, what, Roman Catholic, you were born and raised? No. Oh, you weren't? No. It's quite different for German and Italian. Yeah, I mean, my dad was more religious than my mom but wasn't really enforced. Okay. So on an average, right, how much are you making if you don't mind, like if I go too far? I mean, honestly, it's not my main source of income. So it's not something that I do, I'm not, that's not for me to make money like that. So I don't really keep track of it. Probably I can make a couple of hundred dollars extra a month and stuff like that. So it's nothing crazy to be honest. Okay. But also on and off of it for quite a while, haven't been very consistent because of life because I do have a normal everyday outside life, not on the internet only. Yeah. So it's kind of just spending money, I guess you could say. Let me pause you here, Southman. I've got to do this. I was waiting for this. I was waiting for the word. I was waiting for this word to come in. Seen it a few times. The sipping. I was already calling one out. Okay, what happens is I think in these spaces, if you talk to a woman or have a woman on here, you're sipping. So if we're talking to you, I'm not sure if that's what he meant by that. I was expecting that, you know, that's the whole thing, because God knows if you talk to a woman, but what I've noticed is, and it's nothing against this guy, I don't know if that was a kind of a shock or whatever, but what I've noticed is a lot of these guys who say that quite often, and that's a very popular word. Do you know what that means, sipping? Ivy? I mean, from what this new lingo is like, like a guy that would, you know, I don't want to say like a bitch, but like, you know, like you do whatever the girl wants or like you do anything for them. But like I can also feel like sipping could just be someone, a guy that's, I don't know, extra caring too. Some guys don't care about what other people think, I guess, and if they like a woman and they really are into them, whatever it is, they'll do whatever it takes. Woody has the comment of the night, the great sipping begins. Yeah, I don't even think any of us are sipping, we're just asking questions. Yeah, asking questions is what it's all about. It's supposed to be a chill night, and you know, the whole point of this self, I'm glad you came on too, man, is that myself, I'm not familiar with only fans, and things like that. So for me, it kind of opens my eyes and actually talking with a real person about why they do it, you know, what they're doing on there. And I think there's a lot of guys that make assumptions, but you know what, somebody's paying for this. Somebody's paying for it, you know what I'm saying? I mean, they are, they're paying for it. Well, while we're on the topic of sipping, is there any general guys that you have on this site, you know, like an only fans or what, that are your like particular one and only clients? They keep coming back and they think there's gonna be more, et cetera, et cetera. It's mainly, I mean, I'm my only fans. I have the few people that do come back every month. Not a lot of interaction though on there. I guess they just wait for me to post. But for the, my free cams, there's a lot more people that are more interactive and wanna be more interactive, but you know, there's a barrier, like there's a boundary. So the guy's trying to like pretty woman, you take you off the webcast. Oh yeah, oh yeah, all the time. People are always saying like to me, I mean, even on Instagram, to be honest, and I'm fixing up my Instagram, but even on Instagram, I have people asking to take me out or, you know, wife me up or take care of me. Someone the other day told me that I deserve the world or something like that. I don't know. But it's all, it's all internet based for me, to be honest. Did you take any of that to heart? I mean... And what I mean by that, like, you know, there's a lot of lonely dudes out there, man. There is. There's a lot of lonely guys out there. Well yeah, I mean, I'm not a bitch. I'm not like, if you're saying these things, I'm not gonna be an asshole, obviously. Sorry, I just laughed at the comments. But that doesn't mean that just because you're asking to me or whatnot, I'm just gonna do it because I feel bad for you either. Like, I feel for them and I'm nice. I'm not here trying to just make... I'm not here trying to scam people, you know? Like, if you're on my only fans, if you're on my free camps, like, business is business, you know? But there are some people that come back and I do have conversations with and I know that there's a lot of people that do want to have more of a conversation and just whatever is on their camps. Here's a comment, there you go right there. A lot of guys will pay sex workers just for conversations, very good. Yeah, there are some that just want to have a conversation and honestly, I don't mind having conversations with people and talking real life stuff just like here, having conversation. But you know, there's still that boundary because it can be dangerous too. So these guys that are actually coming back and are repeat customers and trying to pretty woman you, are they the ones paying the most? Did they actually give you more money? Some, yes, but some are trying to just get free stuff. Mm-hmm. Free stuff and like content-wise or? Yeah, free content, pictures to see me, to talk to me throughout the day, stuff like that. Do you do like private, there were somebody who wants a private session with you? Do you do that? Yeah, I do. What would that like, what would that entail? Like, give me like that one. Honestly, what I'm comfortable with and also I always ask what they're expecting from a private because I'm not gonna be in a private and then be uncomfortable with what they ask and then be like, hey, no, I'm not gonna do that. So I really just try to ask my fans what they're looking for. Hey, down in the chat, Shinobi has a good question. Shinobi, Juan. Do sims ever get... Do sims ever get post-nut clairvoyance? What, what is, what is that? Post-nut clarity is like the reality is when you bust a nut, all of a sudden, things aren't the same. In other words, I think if every guy could have that, have that feeling after he busted a nut, he'd be better off. It gives you a clarity. In other words, you, it's basically like the, it's the hunt. And finally, when you make the kill, we're talking real primal here, you make full, you have a different, different view on it. In other words, when the guy's horns are up and then finally, you know, he releases, things don't quite look the same. I don't think so. I mean, even cause like I said, like the regulars, they come back online all the time. So I don't think it changes anything. All right. Primal Studies has a question here for you. Let's throw that up there. Has doing only fans impacted your day in life? For example, as a dude you were seeing, interested in you ended up, ended things because of your only fans? Earlier, go ahead. No, I've been in a relationship for going on seven years. He's kind of the one that supports me. He's very supportive with everything and he doesn't have a problem with it actually. I am in a poly relationship, which is more, it's not open, but it's more of an open relationship in the sense that how I believe is that, you know, we're all human. We all have attraction to people. I mean, I don't feel like shutting that out is something that a lot of people can do. I mean, a lot of married people cheat and I feel like also there could be, you know, if you're gonna be with someone for the rest of your life or for a long period of time, I feel like if you can speak to them openly about things and not have, you know, there's gonna be jealousy always, but I feel like having openness like that actually is very good in a relationship. And I've never been with someone that's not okay with my thought process and how I am. So I've never had that issue. Is your relationship a, in quotes, an open relationship? It's an open relationship, but open relationship is a very broad, it's a very broad way to say open because there's like tons of different open relationships, just like any regular relationships, you always have boundaries and you always have, you know, specific things that, you know, maybe you guys agree on or disagree on. So it's more like open and more of just being open with each other on how we feel and stuff like that and Polly is more having multiple relationships, but Polly is more like three people in a relationship than just the two. Okay, I'm a little confused there. Okay, so there's like subdivisions of open relationships. So there's Polly relationships with usually three people and then there's also open relationships in which you can have multiple serious relationships but separate from each other. So like example, like if I had a boyfriend and then I also had another boyfriend, but they were completely separate from each other. Like they didn't interact and then Polly is more like you have a relationship with multiple people in one relationship. All right, yeah, that's a little confusing. So I wasn't quite sure that, I mean, I've heard that term thrown around. I wasn't quite sure, I'm glad you're here. There's honestly, I'm still learning about the open relationships to be like, there's a lot more open relationships I didn't even know existed that I actually follow an Instagram page that talks about that. Let me ask you a question then. So if your boyfriend, is he allowed to sleep with other women? So our relationship is more that we do things together. Okay, so you grab a third is what you're saying? Yeah. Okay, gotcha. Now I'm gonna ask a question. Is it told like male and female or just another female? It's mainly female, but we do have fun like if we want to have a fun night and add whoever's in the mix, you know, we talk about how we feel, how the vibe is or whatnot. What about this question from Shinobi Wan? Like after a hard show, do you think to yourself, why am I doing this? That's a really good question, Shinobi Wan. That really is because what, you know, I'm glad you asked that because I had thought that. So like, do you ever say, you know, I mean, we're all human. So do you ever say, you know, just why the fuck am I doing this? Yeah, there's some part of me that still it's hard to do it. It's not easy for me even being open as I am. There's always that side that you're kind of like, you know, get self-conscious of what you're doing and feel, I don't know, feel, and I feel like it also has to do with society and how other people make you feel about it because, you know, not everyone's a fan of what, you know, we do OnlyFans or MifreCams or stuff like that, you know, people will say a lot of things about women that do stuff like this, so. Do you think that say in 10 years you might regret this? I hope not, but I guess we'll never know until the future. Yeah. Right now I am doing it mostly to make that extra income. The MifreCams can be fun, especially if I'm with a friend and stuff like that. Like I said before, you can meet people that you can have real life conversations with and that's always nice because it's not, it doesn't feel like you're just on cam, very open and free and feeling, because, you know, people can degrade you and stuff like that and make you feel some type of way that's not nice. I got a good comment here, it's really good, I thought it was funny. I'm confused. Sorry. Maybe that's good. It's an open relationship thing because I'm- I'm confused too, I'm right there with you buddy, so we're good, we're good. That's all right, but this is the reason why, this is the reason why I like to have these conversations. I mean, you know, Ivy's been super honest with us to my man and I'm really glad that she's doing that. She's not holding back, she's just talking about, you know, talking about herself and what she's doing. Trying to answer the question the best I can. Yeah, yeah, and it's tough. I guess if you've never been on a platform like this, it's gotta be a little difficult at first. So, you know, so what we're glad, you know, we're your first on YouTube, so. That's a first. That's a first. Jay Taho, welcome man. Good to see you bro. So, let me see, let me see what Mike Hart says here. He says, she seems very sweet for an only fans girl. I can sense she has a good heart. Well, Mike Hart, maybe she does. I don't know that I get, it's nice comment, thank you, but like the way it's like for an OF girl, like what is an OF girl supposed to be? Like that's my question to you guys. What do you, what do you think an OF, like do you think that we're just not human beings? That we're not human beings? This is exactly why you're here. Like, I don't, like that's what I always, I'm always confused about when people say stuff like that. This is exactly why you're here, because as curious as say Mike Hart is or anybody else in the chat, that's the reason why you're here. I mean, when, when I first spoke with you, I said, geez, like, like I wanted, you know, I got a YouTube channel, I want you to come on. I don't know much about this and I want to kind of get into the person that's behind the scene. I think there's misconceptions. I don't have to agree with what you do to have this conversation with you. You know, to me that's important. If you can't have these conversations candidly and openly, people can't, you know, they can't get an idea of what actually is going on in your mind and things like that. You know, I don't have to agree with your lifestyle. There's a lot of people's lifestyles that I don't agree with, but I don't, you know, I don't control anybody. I might not agree with it, but that's, that's, that's what you choose and that's your choice. And, you know, all choices have consequences. You know, that's something that I'll pass on to everybody. You know, I don't give advice on this channel. I give support. I've said that a million times, but maybe there's some advice. Is all your choices have consequences? Whether they be good or bad. So, you know, but you also can't, you can't take things back that you've lived. You can't do it. It's not possible. Of course not. But, but, you know, I think you're really being open with us tonight. Self, you got any more? Anybody else that wants to jump on, I've passed out links to. Feel free to come on. Uncle Dunn's, Woody Johnson. You guys all come on now. We're not gonna go that much longer tonight, but, and again, any more questions in the chat, go for it. Someone wants to know if I pay taxes. Yes, I do. Yeah, here we go. That's a good question. I know these jobs are some good questions. I do pay taxes. Great, hi to Vega. Vega, good to see you in here, man. Appreciate you dropping in. Any other questions, self? No, not really. I was just, yeah, I asked what I asked. Okay, oh wow, we got somebody, we got another special guest coming on tonight. In fact, Ivy, you're gonna recognize this young lady coming on right now. She is the woman translator of the management. I don't know about that. Well, that's what, I had talked with her privately and she had said, oh, well, I like the way she translates things. So, Ivy, meet Minka. Hi, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. So, you seem really nice. It's really nice to meet you. But I have some questions, because there's like a lot of inconsistencies in the things that you're saying and inconsistencies in the chat and inconsistencies all throughout. It's like, you're saying that you're not, it's not about the money, you're not being it for the money, but it's a business and you are doing it for the money. And, go ahead, what is it? Let me not bombard you, I'm sorry. Yes and no. I mean, I did start it out with trying to make money, of course. I mean, I'm still, it's still a business is still trying to make money. I do have a job outside the internet, but sometimes, you know, working nine to five Monday through Friday, it takes a toll, especially with everything else going on in my life. So, having that extra money always does help a little bit, especially with the rent prices going up and stuff like that. So, it is about the money, but I'm also not here trying really to do the most to get the money, I guess. So, what you're saying, what you really mean is that it's not about the money, that it is about the money, but you have not put the effort required to make more money. Yeah, and I'm not here looking for, you know, $100,000 a month or anything. And that's my next question though, why not? If, because I was raised to like, I heard horror stories about, not the other word, horror, like scary stories when I was a kid about girls that went into this life. And my number one question for someone like you is that saying you're not putting forth the effort that's required to make that kind of money and it is about the money, then why not? If you're going to spread open and be nude and that vulnerable in front of so many people, why wouldn't you put forth that effort and go full throttle then? Because to me as a woman, it seems like a huge sacrifice for very little reward. Yeah, I mean, I think it's also just because of me, I was talking to Tony about this, about breaking certain barriers still that I haven't pushed through, just like really being out there out there. And this is kind of one of those. I'm gonna be straight up with you because I don't think anyone has. What you're describing is something that you're not comfortable with but you're trying to push through anyways. When someone's asked you about your personal relationship whether it's open, unopened, you haven't answered any of the questions in a secure manner where you, I feel like you're in a safe, good position in your life. And I will preface it with this. I worked with a lot of women that have been escorts and OnlyFans girls and webcam girls and what was the other one? Not dancers, dancers have to endure a lot more psychologically than the other two for some reason. Even the escorting, I feel like more of the women have a straight understanding of what it is. Whereas dancing, I feel like more women have a lot more things. It's just a weird environment. So let me preface it with, I have worked with a lot of women doing what you're doing. That's where the questions are coming from. It's coming for a concern from as a woman, I'm hearing another woman describe her situation. It doesn't sound safe. It doesn't sound like you really know what your relationship is about. It doesn't sound like you know what you're doing with your video webcamming. It doesn't, and I'm concerned for you. This isn't, make sure that nobody knows like I, what's your ethnicity? German, Italian, American. Right, but you're, no, your culture. It's you come from an ethnic background. I do too. That's why I'm saying this. It's not, I'm not trying to condemn you, but I'm concerned that no one has asked you to look at what you're doing in your life and how it's affecting yourself and how it will actually affect you in the future. Because you're not in a solid relationship. If that dude does leave, which it sounds like that's the person that's making you comfortable with these life decisions, you're on your own. And then you're gonna go full throttle, but by that time, there's not gonna be many men that are open and comfortable in a monogamous relationship that would want to support their wives or girlfriends that are gonna be okay with girls doing them. And these are the things that it might, and it's my, I don't know how old you are, I'm 32. The generation before me made it okay for the girls my age to get filler to do all this. And like only plans blew up right after, right? And so I'm one of those too, where I, for me it was filler. I had filler like here, here, and I ended up looking like a puffball and I didn't know. And no one told me that I was ugly. No one told me, hey, you have no face anymore. You look plastic. I didn't, and I was delusional and I didn't know. And so, but when I started thinking about it, it was like, all of the women that were older than me told me that it was normal, that it was okay. There was nothing wrong with it. And I almost died from having filler. So it's, these are serious repercussions and especially women, we feel more comfortable with more women. And so when there's older women saying like, yeah, I do only fans, I do this cause I have that too. And making my example of filler. I'm the one left to deal with the consequences. Yeah. And that's why I'm asking. I just wanna make sure you know I'm not, I don't want, my intention is not to hurt you. My intention is to get you to look at something that it doesn't seem like you're looking at. No, I definitely understand. I was trying to go more full throttle with it, but I wasn't, like I said, it's about the money and the fact that I do need to support myself at the end of the day and support my family and to make sure that I can make money to support myself no matter what. But you said that it was earlier, you said that it was just spending cash and it wasn't really that important to you. Well, it started off like that. So I, that's how it started off. And then, you know, things got hard. And also me, like working full time and everything, like it takes a toll on me at times. And I wanna spend more time doing things that I love and I wanna do also. Instead of working a full time job and still feeling like I can't enjoy stuff because I'm working for it. Do you have a goal to do this full time? Let's say you're making, I don't know, let's say you're making $10,000 a month. Would you do it full time? Are you comfortable with doing it? No, because I also do like, even if I have like only a part time job, I do enjoy what I do. I enjoy my nine to five, but it wouldn't be, it would be less of a nine to five. You're doing it again, you're backtracking. It's okay, what family do you, do you have children? Yes. Okay, that's the family you have to support, understood. But when you talk about this, it's in spending cash and it's what you just, you're going around and there's no actual sense of responsibility for what you're doing to yourself. Meaning you're saying that you're, what did you just say? You said that you want to make it a career, but if you had the opportunity that you wouldn't actually take it as a career full time, which actually tells everybody that it's not true, that you don't like what you're doing, that you don't want to do all new fans, because if you did actually want to do it, then you did have the opportunity, you would jump at the opportunity. So it's, and it's not about me or anybody here, fuck everybody here. It's about, what do you think about me and what you want for your life? I don't, so if I was making $10,000 a month, I'd probably not have a normal job. But right now in my head, as I see things, I'm not making that money. So if I were to start making that type of money, yes, I would probably just do that full time. So. But do you see how, and I'm gonna ask you another question, because this is all just for, I don't know you, we may see each other, I don't know, but I hope that you leave this conversation and you think about what you want for yourself, because you're not, when you make a decision like this, like I just moved across the country to Florida, right? That's a really big decision. I better be pretty damn sure of what I want to do if I'm going to make a huge change in my life. And that's essentially what OnlyFans is. And the problem is not you. The problem is the women, like I said, the older women that told me, and you're, actually do you mind if I ask, I don't, am I allowed to ask you how old you are? Or is that okay or no? Which? Yeah, I said it earlier, I'm 29. Okay, so you're actually the same age range, but it's the older women, tell me if this is true or not, the older women from our era were telling us, it's okay to get filler, OnlyFans is fine, girl, get that bag, blah, blah, blah. And my issue with that is when you say that to women that I like to tell people that men don't realize how low women value themselves. We really, like we try to look good, all the unrealistic expectations, all of these things. And so when you have women influencing in that capacity, what I see a lot is women making decisions, feeling comforted, and not actually thinking of it all the way through, because as I said earlier, I almost died from using filler, those women are not suffering the consequences, I am. Yeah, I mean, my boyfriend doesn't push me to do it in that sense. Yeah, but your boyfriend's also like with other people, there's no sense of loyalty when, you know what I mean? Especially if he's your boyfriend and he's not paying the bills, and you have to resort to doing that on camera. No, that's not how it is at all. He pays most of the bills. It's not that dynamic at all. He does support me in a lot of ways. And to me, I, like I said earlier, I do like to be someone that can support myself as well. I don't want to feel reliant on my partner and, you know, God forbid, something ever did happen that he can't be making that money. I would also want to be able to support our family too, just in case of stuff like that, anything could happen, you know? Yeah, but it hasn't happened. It's, you're making, everyone's made everyone, and I say everyone even in the chat, everyone is making only fans seem normalized, like opening your legs on camera is not gonna affect you or your children, or your children's children. This is a trend. The trend goes up and the trend goes down. Do you remember Pamela Anderson and Kid Rock in the 90s, where they were like, cool? Do you remember them being a joke afterwards? I honestly don't know much about it. They, she had big fake boobs, big fake everything, fake blonde hair. The media completely abolished her and used her up and then they threw her away. And she was a joke up until this day. No one takes her serious. She could never do anything else with her life other than be the Pimbo that she was. My issue with these conversations is that we have forgotten it's porn. It's still porn. You don't know what you want. It's still porn. As long as you don't see it on camera, it's still porn. That's exactly why we're talking about it. No, but that's not because no one's said it until now. And the problem is I'm giving you- Wait, wait, wait. What has nobody said until now? That it's porn. No, that's exactly what we said. I'm just trying to keep it, it's adult content creating. Yes, that's porn. Let me give you insight on what's actually happening on the back end. No, but I'm just saying that's exactly the reason why she's on here is to talk about it. Women that do only fans say, I don't do porn. I do only fans. That's what I'm trying to get everybody to understand. No, I didn't never- I know you don't. I know you don't. I didn't mean it in the way that- Regardless of what you said, that's adult content creator is pornography. Absolutely. Yeah, but we're not- I was told enough to know that that's without me putting in a thumbnail saying, here's porn for you on a- It's not you. Tony, it's not you. She knows what I'm talking about. Girls that do this, that's literally the phrase and why it's become so normalized because the girls would be out in a club or we'd be talking, oh, what do you do? Oh, I'm a content creator. Oh, what kind of content? I don't do porn. I do only fans. And so that's the mind thing that's been going on with the girls. Cause I looked into it. I'm like, why are so many girls from good families, wealthy families? So it's not what we're talking about here, but like- Well, a lot of it too. I mean, the reality is too, a lot of it's a validation thing. I mean, I think that some women do it because- Yeah, that's what I'm getting to. They do want validation. I mean, the reality is any woman wants to be like, when you walk down the street, whether it's Ivy or Mink or Anna to say, wow, cute girl. I mean, what woman doesn't want that? What man doesn't want that? I mean, that's just reality. This is- But the validation, the taking away of the, I'm with you, Toni. And I know that you're calling it what it is. What I'm saying is because we've normalized it in society by the girls starting to say it's not porn, it's only fans, we've created this dilulu of it's not as serious as it is. And my question is if you have kids, how do you think this is gonna impact your kids in the future? I mean, I definitely would, if in the future, obviously, probably find out when they're older, and I would just be open with them and explain to them at the time. How old do you think they'll find out? In this society, I'm with technology. I'm not sure. Probably younger than expected. I have a 10-year-old that was making porn jokes other day. So it's, I'm asking these questions because I don't- What about a 10-year-old that went fine? 10-year-olds make jokes about porn. They're watching porn now. It's not older, like when they're 18, it's gonna be like right away. How does it- Like I said, when I started this, I said, for me, it's, being older, it's like, all right, wow. Like to me, porn was a playboy. That was it, you know? That was all there was to it, you know? So the phenomenon of only fans has taken off, regardless. And I don't think anybody would question that it's not porn. They do. That's what I'm trying to get you to understand. They do. I don't think anybody I know would think that. But you're in the real, we talk about it a lot here, but in the regular world, the majority of women classify it as content creation, not in porn at all. It's weird. And that's, that I appreciate that you guys have the transparency, but it's, have you met those girls, Ivy? Which, there's a lot of women that say, I don't do only fans, or I mean, I don't do porn. I do only fans. Like it's not the same. I haven't met anyone personally say that per se. I know that a lot of people say they're only fan model, or I'm an only fan, like I have only fans, but I've never heard someone say like, oh, I don't do porn, but I do only fans. Like I haven't run into someone that says that per se. Yeah. I mean, I just, kids are fucking mean, man. Kids are fucking mean. What's that? I said kids are mean. Like the little kids, like they're just, they're ruthless with picking on other kids and stuff. That's why I ask these questions. Cause it's not just like, it's not- Well that's because kids don't have filters yet. Yeah, but it's, mothers need to remember these things when they're doing, making these decisions because it's not just in the moment. The recession will come and go, money will come and go, but what will still remain is your reputation and that impacts not just yourself, your kids, your children's children. Like what about grandma doing only fans? No one thinks of these things. And it's, and it's, my hope is by having more of these conversations, people think about it before they engage in this kind of stuff. No, of course. I mean, I've, I've had a lot of thought. That's why I've always been on and off about it. And I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to have my only fans purely porn like that. Like I said, like if I'm not comfortable with, you know, specific things, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna send something or I'm not gonna do something that I'm not comfortable with. So- I mean, I think Mika too, there's so many, you know what, there's so many lifestyles out there. And again, I don't have to agree with them. But nowadays, there are just so many lifestyles out there that- Fuck with you, Ivy. You're your dopest shit for being real. A hundred percent, Tony. You, I don't know how you guys made this happen, but applaud to the both of you because it's not, it's not easy. It's just, you know, like I said, there's that, it's a phenomenon when I, when I, you know, to me only fans, I literally had, I've never been on only fans. I don't know. But I do know, like, I know in my mind what it is. I get that. It's not something that I would do, but people are paying for it. Obviously men and women are paying for it because from what I understand, dudes have, you know, that one dude, you know, since pictures- No, no, no, no, no, no. It's gay guys. People or whatever. Yeah, no, no, no, no. There's, the guys, their main clientele and only fans is gay men. It's not straight women. Exactly. Yeah, okay. I'm sure there's women that do it too. Because women, women, you know, women like porn also. Of course. But it's, it's, my issue isn't with like, it's not, to me, only fans is just another porn hub. It's, to me, that's my, my issue with the movement that happened was that it made it, whereas before you would have thought twice as a woman doing only fans. Oh no, it's fine now. And it's, and that's why I'm calling out the way that you're talking isn't, you know, when you make a decision, you're like, fuck yeah, I got it. It's, you're more strong. And that's what I'm pointing out to you for you, is that when you've answered the questions that people have had, you sway back and forth so much that my concern is for you, are you doing what you actually want to do? Because it doesn't, that's what I'm picking up on that it doesn't seem like this is your preferred choice. Let her answer that question then. I mean, I mean, yeah, I've, I've, I'm a little nervous. One. Sorry. Two. Let's do the first podcast thing ever. But also, I am comfortable with it, but it's also been something that I've kind of been breaking out of my shell, I guess, if you can say. But yes, a big majority did start with. Pramila, you literally said that women shouldn't be in the manosphere and how would you feel if your girlfriend was doing this? You wouldn't like it and you probably wouldn't have picked her. Let's let Ivy answer this question real quick. I mean, here's a good question. Well, that's the same question that I just asked. I'd love to know because it's, yeah. Am I happy with what I'm doing? There's a lot of times that I feel good about what I'm doing. And like you're saying before that there is that time that you question yourself and ask, like, you know, is this really what you want to be doing and everything like that? So, like I said, kind of breaking out of my shell and actually being happy with it because it is something that I've thought about for a long time. It's not like something that was pushed up on me, you know? And the Mifery cams can actually be something that's fun. It's not always just me naked on cam, honestly. But a lot of times I'm not. You happy with it? Okay. I've got an issue with the word happy, okay? Because I think happy, happy to me, okay? I have said this before, but happy to me is fleeting. There's a difference between happy and content. There's a difference between content and happy. Happy comes and goes. It's a, you can be happy, you can be sad. It's not something that hangs with you. Content means you're okay with what you're doing. So maybe the better question are you content with what you're doing? Are you okay with what you're doing? Yeah. Yes. So I have another question. If, since you said you only make about like a couple hundred, right? Just because I've been very inconsistent. But I'm gonna ask you a question. If I were to give you an offer where I have a marketing agency, we can boost your only fans profile and we can get you only selling feet pictures instead of being naked. And you'd still make the same amount. Would you jump on that opportunity? I would. Okay, cool. I can give you my number in the private chat and I can literally do that. But that also tells me that you're not okay with what you're doing. Well, I'm okay with what you're doing. But I just want to do an expense, I guess I could say. But my number's right there. Okay. Like I'm dead ass. I literally do this for a living. I can train you on how to do it and how to actually go on Twitter and find the clients and you'll get guys that'll pay you $700 for feet pictures and like texting back and forth. Like it's, and this is my thing. I'm not trying, I know it can seem like I'm... All right, let me ask you a question. Can I ask you a question, Minka? How are my feet? Could they pass or not? I feel like you'd have like a specific fetish, you know what I mean? And I don't work in this industry anymore, but... Wait, no, there's their, wait, what do you mean anymore? Wait, no, let's back up. I used to build websites for girls that did only fans. So that instead of paying only fans that 20 commission, they get the entire commission and they move their clients from only fans to their own website. I have a guest coming on right now and I'm really excited about having him on, man. And this is awesome. Do you see though that I, like, I... Welcome to that, Stedman. Hey, how are you guys doing? Good, good to see you, good to see you, man. I'm just popping on for a bit. Don't want to interrupt the flow of stuff for here, but... Oh, no, absolutely not. No, it's good flow. Absolutely not, it's a good flow, man. It's always good when you commit, absolutely. So have you been watching much or kind of... No, no, I literally just, I just jumped on right now. I hadn't seen anything of it. Okay, cool. I think Ivy, I think you're familiar with Pat. You saw, I think... Yeah, I saw the video. The one we saw last year, the last one. Yeah. Okay. But yeah, so what we're, basically what the whole gist is tonight is that we're talking with Ivy about her only fans or was it my free cams and things like that, that she does. And so, let me just kind of preface everything is that I think that there's a lot of misconceptions about this and why women do it, things like that. I did give your email a shout out, by the way, a little while ago. The latest email on women's schools. Great email, by the way. And I told everybody to go to your email ASAP and get on it. And so maybe you want to send that one out again. But anyways, so that's kind of what we've been talking about. And I think Ivy's been fairly candid with us about what she wants. And Minka has given a little bit of, we'll say a little bit of clap back, but I think Minka's clap back is for concern. I think it's more like, I think her, I think she was trying to pick up on inconsistencies. But I think what happens is, sometimes people are in a state, maybe we might, I might not pick it up for somebody else not pick it up, but there might be a little confusion. And maybe as a woman, Minka can see something that I'm not seeing or self wasn't seeing or somebody in the chat wasn't seeing. I can say this, even the guys, no offense, but like the men here were all like, for a second. And you as a female, I think could tell that I kept trying to tell you certain things about myself to reinforce. Like I'm not trying to attack you. I'm not trying to hurt you, but I am trying to like help you look at something that I don't think anyone would have said it so lately. Yeah, so I also wanted to say something before he hopped on. We were saying something about the feet picks and- My phone number's on there too, by the way. Yeah, I saved it on my phone. So I did start OnlyFans for the money and I do do it for the extra money and stuff. And there are hard times that it does come in handy, but over the last few years of me being on and off of it, I do wanna move my OnlyFans to not just content creator as in complete like porn, like as you said. I did have an end goal of making it. I did wanna get into more modeling and more of stuff like that and more real life modeling than just porn on OnlyFans, which is my end goal. So if that explains a little better, I don't know. It does, it does, but I actually had one with a girl that is a porn star. And she said the same thing and I begged the same question, which is she wanted to make it more artsy and more like, what did she say, Boudoir? Like, you know, the silo idea. But I begged the same question, which is like why is she doing porn instead of doing OnlyFans? So she was doing porn instead of OnlyFans, right? So she's not making all that money. It's the same, when you're saying that you wanna do modeling, I bring it down because I'm a female. So the problem that, this is why I'm doing this. Because when men do it, it's condemning women. I'm not trying to condemn women. I'm trying to wake us up like, bitch, you're asleep. Come on, come with me. Like it's, when you say you wanna do modeling, but you're a mother and you're doing OnlyFans and you don't wanna take it to the next step, you're very stagnant in what you're saying. And even when you're telling me your end goal, I don't, do you see yourself from point where you are right now to goal, you see that actually happening with the way that things are going? I didn't before, but I did have a little break from everything and kind of just reevaluated myself and kind of just sat down. And really that's when I started thinking about actually moving things over. I can guarantee you, it's just, I thought of it. If you were to do like a propaganda of girl quits OnlyFans needs support, I would wonder how much more people you would have on your non-naked OnlyFans giving you money, just to support you to not be naked. Because it's going against the grain and you don't really have much to lose in the position that you're in. You said that you came from a break and you're coming back. It might be something worthwhile to try. Because it's- But also too, you know, we'll get Pat in here soon. And then I'm gonna just go hop over. No, no, no, that's okay, Stan. This, like, it is a phenomenon. I mean, people are painful. I mean- But not anymore, it's on the trajectory of down. It's in quite times. I'm sure it is, I'm sure it is. I read all about OnlyFans. I read about too that they were trying to eliminate adult content. But that's probably not going to happen. The Merchant Services wouldn't allow it. It wasn't even OnlyFans. It was Merchant Services would not process any of their credit card payments if they do not allow OnlyFans adult nudity content. Because that's where all the money was. But now, this last year, there's been a huge downward reduction. It's, that's why I'm saying- A lot of that, I'm gonna just take a guess. A lot of that had to do with non-pandemic issues we have now, in other words. So, Pat, you wanna chime in? Well, I think that there's some of that. You know, I think it saw, let's say, a unnatural extra boost during the pandemic period. But, and so you could argue that the decline, a lot of it's just a return to, you know, what would have been a more normal baseline market. But I do think that there, the pendulum in general is swinging. And I think in general, there's a lot. It's not anywhere close to like not permissive, right? But there's a push against it. And I think that that is a growing movement. And I do think that there's a growing movement of shaming it where that wasn't the case before. So, I just wanted to throw that in there. Mike, I have just a couple of questions, Ivy, because I really find it interesting. And I guess one of the biggest questions for me that jumps out is like, does it become harder to stop because you do get money from it? And it becomes like, is there a circuit that you feel like starts to get created and that you feel like it would, that it impacts you with sex in general, with other people? Because I remember reading on this sort of very in-depth expose to an escort and about her experiences and how it made it, people talk about like how complicated relationships that are on from the standpoint of people having to deal with whatever your past. But she wasn't even talking about it from that perspective. It's just how almost her orientation towards the whole dating intimacy process had changed. What's it been like for you? You weren't listening earlier. I'm in a relationship for about seven years now. So I haven't really had that issue per se. So the porn is mostly you and your boyfriend? Yeah, mainly solo. But I do, honestly, my only fans is really based off of people requesting things. I don't have an only fans where I have just straight porn on that. Sure. So like, I'm very comfortable with taking sexy photos. I enjoy it. Like I love seeing a photo of me that I actually like and know that it's a sexy photo and stuff like that. So it's not that I'm not comfortable with that. Or what? There was another inconsistency. What? You said of photos of myself that I actually like, which tells me that most of the photos and the things that you're doing, you don't like. No, no, no. I mean, like, if I take a sexy photo of myself, I'm not gonna feel like because I posted that sexy photo that I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna... Just because I posted it is just because, you know, I wanted it out there for someone to buy it. You asked me. Sorry, I'm trying to follow. I take a sexy photo and I enjoy it if I can share that. I'm really curious about this question. So does like your circuit when it comes to money, like I need money and is there now like a circuit in place where you think, okay, well, what can I do sexually, sort of with them, with my only fans to get money? Is it kind of like that's, has that, because the money I'm sure is so much easier in some ways and other work that you could be doing. It can be easier. Do you feel like though it's changed your relationship to like if you need money, do you mentally now like view this as something? Cause I know you're talking about like you kind of want to get out of it but do you, but whenever there's some sort of financial pressure or, you know, do you feel like the pull back into it? No, I think it's more of, if I pull out of it a little, it's more of me just taking a step back for my, to focus on my own life and stuff like that. Like, cause I was telling Tony another big thing is that I'm very bad at social media and keeping up with things like that. So the consistency is what's hard for me just because of life and a lot going on. But like how she was saying, if I did have a full time and that's all I, you know, did and that's what I would make money off of, that would be, that would be great. She did talk earlier, Pat, about basically giving guys almost like a girlfriend experience. I guess that's the way I would put it. Be careful. I had a lot of the girls that would say that they were desensitized. Sorry. That's you. Yeah, that's my question. Sorry. A lot of girls that I know got desensitized because of the constant over sexualization of their selves and their bodies. So like they weren't finding their boyfriends attractive. They weren't wanting to only be with their boyfriends. They wanted to be with other people. And it's just, just be careful because I try and talk, I have a guy friend that was talking about wanting to do all the dance. And I told him the same thing, size angles. It's not sexist. And it's, I told him, like every man that I know that's gone down this path is incapable of being vulnerable to a certain extent with the woman that they are with. And it takes a certain kind of women now whereas they like the good girl before they need like a bad bitch or something because the good girl doesn't do the freaky things if they're now accustomed to. And it's the same thing with women. I know a lot of girls that, like I said earlier, just be careful of that. Oh, of course, of course. I mean, put some grass and stuff. Well, the money part of it was because I did want that extra free time to be myself and do the hobbies that I want to do with also having responsibilities as an adult and having a family and everything like that. So that's my, that was my main motive for the money part of it. Did you, so how did you, I'm sure you already talked about a lot of this stuff. I don't want to like make you reinvent the wheel with the whole thing. How is your, like was your boyfriend part of the decision getting into it? He didn't like tell me to do it. I thought, brought it up myself and he supports it but he doesn't, he tells me if you don't want to do it and it's not for you, you don't feel comfortable. Like that's a totally yourself. Like that's your choice. That's how, what you want to do. And if you don't want to do it, I support you. And if you do, I support you as well. And of course I go to him for advice. And if I don't feel comfortable or if, you know something's not something that I'm used to. And you guys are completely monogamous? No, we're a poly. Okay. Do you? Yeah, that's where I got a little confused on. We talked about that earlier and I wasn't quite sure on like, you know, I've heard that term before. I'm like, all right, is poly open relationship? Is it, your mic's off Anna, is what is poly? Is poly the same thing as an open relationship? So it falls under a type of an open relationship. There's a lot of types of open relationships. There's different rules. Yeah, there's different boundaries. She has more rules than a regular open, right? You guys have more rules than a regular open relationship? Yeah, but also I feel like different poly relationships can be different. Like I was trying to explain before there are some poly relationships where they actually have relationships outside their main relationship. And for us, in my future, I always thought of me having a boyfriend and a girlfriend. That just sounds so exhausting to me. Like a full on three way relationship and another relationship, like. No, like that's a thing. I don't even have a single relationship. Hold on, I don't even have a single relationship. Why do you have so many? No, I have outside. It's just me, my boyfriend, and then hopefully in the future, someone that would join our relationship for all three of us. I wouldn't, like our dynamic isn't having relationships outside us. Gotcha. That's too many, I think. Oh, I had a question. Sorry, can I ask it? Yeah. Absolutely. Again, now that you understand like where I'm coming from, it's not a tack, it's like, how do we fix this shit? How many women that were not your family told you not to do only fans or suggested not doing it or thinking about it or not? And how many women praised you for doing it? I mean, I don't have a lot of people saying not to do it, but to also make, like you were saying, make sure it's something that I'm comfortable with, I'm okay with, and then also if I'm doing it, that I'm gonna support you. Like if that's what you wanna do and that's what you're comfortable with, like I wouldn't be able to do it, but if you do it, like go right ahead and I support your decision. But that's the issue is that a good friend will not tell you what you wanna hear, a good friend will tell you what you need to hear. And that's why I'm asking this question because if you're saying that- That's if the good friend is like, I mean, I've got friends like that where- We're telling you about opening your legs on only fans. No, I get that, I get that. But I'm just really old school to think like, like that will probably agree with me on this, but a woman's body is can be like art, it can be beautiful, you know what I mean? So I think people can look at it very different. We live in such a totally different world than 30 years ago, 20 years, it's changed so drastically. But still, the female feature is should be beautiful it should be, that's what it is. Whether or not it's abused or taken the wrong way, you know, we can look at a runway model, okay? Who's half naked on there and then we can look at like a only fans girl who's showing her body. Is there- They're both garbage, they're both, the only- I'm not done, I'm not done. Sorry. I'm not about both of the girls. I'm not done, I was just about to say it's the same thing, it's the same thing. Okay, that's what I'm about to say is that it's the same thing. So is there, I'm gonna go to Pat. I mean, where is, okay, some people will draw a line. Everybody has a line they draw on their head. What's right, a bikini picture is good, but naked picture back. So where is there a happy medium? That, I don't know if you wanna kinda bounce off, Pat. You get what I'm saying, Pat? Yeah, there is a famous, I can't remember the court case, but there was, they were trying to essentially determine whether something was pornographic or obscene and the judge issued this famous ruling that we said essentially like, I know the difference when I see it versus art versus porn. I do think that photos of women can be taken of them even naked and have it not be pornographic in, because there's a sort of energy that comes with an image. There's that, I think that you could do a tasteful nude modeling and that may still be restricted, but it has a very different, obviously a very different energy to it than like if you got like a dildo in you or something like that. So I don't have a sort of explicit answer because I don't think it's something, I think just in the same way that you can ask yourself why when an artist nails a banana to a board and it goes, then people say, well, that's art, you're like, is it really? Is that really art? I think that this, not to digress, but a lot of stuff that we're told, it's like, oh, this is art, it's bullshit. Like we can feel art, art makes you feel something. It has a different energy to context or quality to it. Anyway, my thoughts with this, I'm just, I'm really interested in just how, if and how it's impacted relationships, especially with your boyfriend, I know you're not exclusive. I don't know how many other people are in your stat, but did it, do you feel like it changed your sex life when you started to do this? No, not at all. We have a great sex life. I don't know, I think that some days it's actually enhances it as weird as that sounds. And when you decided to go in this direction, was it one of those things that was just purely, I need to make money, more money, I don't know how, I guess I can do this, or was it something that actually, like is this just work or did it actually kind of turn you on to be doing what you're doing? Like are you gonna feel like you're more of an exhibitionist by nature? At first it was definitely trying to make that extra money. And I had mentioned earlier that I started with a FetLife to post pictures that I have that, you know, I enjoy the pictures and I wanted to share them without having, you know, backlash of nude or semi-nude photos of myself. My nude photos of myself. But now it's more, I don't know, I think that MyFreeCams is a little more fun, like you said, like an ex- Exhibitionist. Exhibitionist. So yeah, it can be fun and entertaining. And like I said that our sex life can be, like those days that I am camming can, can, you know, make me and my boyfriend more attracted to each, not attracted to each other, yeah, turned on to be more sexually active, not that we're not at all. And are there ever, does it ever feel like if it's just kind of fun or whatever most of the time or does it ever feel degrading? Are there certain things that you've done that you feel like degraded you in some way? There are some days that I can feel that way, which is, it is hard and definitely makes it a little harder to do at times, especially with life going on and stuff, you know, we all have our emotions and our bad days and our good days. And on my good days, I feel great about it. And, you know, it's fun, it's something different and I'm making money while I'm doing it. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, I think what we're seeing here is, I mean, you know, from start to where we are now, I think that, I think what we're seeing here, it's a tough decision for any woman to make. And once you make that decision, you have to live with it, just that plain and simple. You have to be, you have to, you know, I had said that earlier and show that all choices have consequences, whether they're good or bad. I don't want to speak like a weird question, but I'm going somewhere with it. And this is just kind of interesting for me in general, because of the kind of work that I do. Before you got into this, even before maybe you would thought you would get into it, would you say that you were naturally, like from the very beginning, very sexual? Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. That's another thing. Like I'm just getting comfortable with it because of the fact that I've always been very sexual, but it's always been very hidden and to myself. And I feel like as a kid, I kind of looked at sex in negative light. And as I grew up, I started, you know, breaking that shell and opening up to more of who I really am in that way. So it does take a toll because of that, because I'm, you know, still going back and forth, not back and forth, but still in that shelled and like in that mentality. Well, when you say it was brought up in a negative light, does that mean that you didn't have sex when you're younger for a long time because you felt like it was wrong? Or more beautiful? I was very uncomfortable with, like I was comfortable like thinking about sex, watching porn, all that stuff. But it was very like to me, I feel like I don't know why or what in my life that made me feel that sex or sexuality and stuff, like that was very like a bad thing. I don't- It wasn't in your upbringing. Yeah. Like we didn't really talk about sex in my family. It wasn't really something, you know, that was open. And I felt like me being as sexual as I am, that it was a bad thing. And I guess growing up and learning more and being, sorry, that thing just popped up and just impacted me. I feel like this is just great, man, a great moderator. I was just kind of watching the chat. I don't know. But it sounds like guns to send them to the gulag tonight. Good for you guns. Go for it. But yeah, so I feel like when I was younger, I thought of sex as a bad thing. And as I grew older, I learned that sex isn't negative and shouldn't be negative or thought in a negative light. Like for a long time, I didn't know if I was gay or straight or didn't know what I was. So I guess the question, I promise I'm going somewhere with it. So when did you had this sort of confusion when you were younger, but when did you become sexually active? Like when did you lose your virginity? Like were you grappling with like maybe these feelings of shame, like you were still doing it because you had the impulse when you were younger and then you kind of... So when I was really young, I was exploring things with women, with friends, which was as the first person I ever kissed was a female and that I did anything with. Did you initiate that or did it just kind of happen or was it... It just kind of happened. And but like it was very hush hush kind of. Like we aren't supposed to be doing this, but we're doing it and not really talked about. Which then, I guess when I was a kid in my mentality like I was like, this is bad, like this is not a good thing. Like I'm not supposed to be doing that. And then as I grew older, everyone boy likes girl, like boy it wasn't really a lot of, if you were gay or bi or bisexual and stuff. I don't know, I guess it wasn't something spoken about in my upbringing. So for me, it was very confusing. And I always, I would check out girls and feel like, oh, I'm not supposed to be doing that. Like I'm a female. I'm supposed to be looking at men. I'm supposed to be attracted to men, you know? So you were very exploratory, but I mean, it sounds like you did, like you weren't, like you had sex with people fairly young. Yeah. Okay. The reason I'm asking all the questions because I think, I wonder about the sort of dispositions that certain people just have to go into, you know, this kind of profession. I feel like it's innate. Like when I, like, because when I worked with guys, I'm not saying this was exactly, you know, this was you exactly, right? But a lot of guys who've even maybe struggled with women, let's say it didn't really know what they were doing, but there was always a girl or a couple of girls in grade or like, they were down, you know? Like they were down to do stuff with them. And then they maybe have a crush on a guy or they want to explore something else. But the point is that there's a certain percentage, maybe somewhere between like five to 10% of girls who really just were always more sexually open and more. And so I wonder for yourself, I mean, obviously your friends are gonna be people who were generally more accepting and in this area, but did you feel like you were different from a lot of other women? Oh yeah, a lot of times. Yeah. Growing up definitely different. I mean, I remember when I lost my virginity, you know, in high school, you're just like, oh, I'm gonna date a guy and we're gonna last a year and then I'm gonna give it up to him and we're gonna lose our virginity in this big special way. And it's gonna be so amazing. And I was kind of like, yeah, let's wait. And then like being in a relationship with someone, I was kind of just like, why am I waiting? Like I wanna know what sex is. Like it was something that I wanted to explore. It wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna wait for this big whole like, you know, beautiful, cute, romantic, let me lose my virginity type of thing. It was more like, I just wanna know what it feels like. I just want it to happen. I didn't wait that year. And then it's just awkward and you really don't know what you're doing in any ways. Yeah, it is just like, wow, all that big shabam. Yeah, I think it's pretty standard for most people, first time they have sex. It's kind of awkward. But you know how they have, you know, in high school, it's like, you know, you're the female so you're supposed to wait and have the men respect you and you know, they don't just want you to, for the fuck and all that stuff. And like, that's what's really like grained into us. And like, I understand, like, of course, you're losing your virginity. That's something big, you're a kid, you're young. But for me, I was just, I just needed to know. That's kind of what I've always sort of, like, I hypothesized with them that there's, there's just some girls, some women just like, they just wanna have sex. Like it's like, they don't necessarily want to inform to the social norms around it. And they just wanna explore it. And with that, obviously comes some degree of like the gaming and ostracization. That's interesting. But I guess you would say from that, that you don't think most women are, like you feel like you are one of those girls who can do it. And you feel like for most women it would not be something that would be a good thing for them. Sorry, you broke up at the end, that it wouldn't be a... Do you feel like doing like only fan porn, do you feel like for most women that you've encountered, whether even if you're just in high school, that doing only fans would be really, like it's dead, it'll be bad for them. Like for you, maybe you feel like it's more of a fit, but you feel like for them, it would be a very different experience. Yeah, I definitely think, I mean, I have friends that tell me like, girl, I couldn't do that. Like I wouldn't be able to do that. And I am comfortable to an extent. That's why I was saying like my only fans, I do base it mainly on sexier photos and sexier things. And if someone wants a special request, I send things upon how I feel. And if I don't feel comfortable, then I'm not gonna do it. So Mika, I want to kind of direct this to you. What I'm getting from this, and I've been thinking about this for a while. I just really, I've even heard it from her, but that you really have always almost consistently throughout history, like by the time you're in the bar. Sorry, you're breaking. Sorry, is this better? I think so. Okay, I don't have my headphones or anything, I'm just like. We need it, we're all struggling today. That throughout history that there's always been this like five to 10% of women who are just innately dispositionally, you know, they wanna have sex, they wanna be promiscuous and they tend to find themselves in these kinds of professions as a result of it. And so I guess like the question with this is, wait, you're prefaceing a bunch of statistics and information that are not valid and are not true. Five to 10% of women are horny. I think that if you look, I mean, from my experience, just, you know. I know those stats are, I've read those stats. There's new reports out that there was a huge misconception to make women seem like they didn't have the sexual appetite that men do. It's just different. We have more emotion into it. We don't just jump the gun usually. This is not, that's not exactly what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that there is always a girl or, you know, a girl or two in a class of let's say 100. Let's make the number even lower. But maybe you can say less than 5%. But that there's always like a girl or some girls who just, they don't wanna wait. They're very sexually open. And they've, you know, they've found a prostitution or in pornography or in all sorts of, but I guess my question here is, yeah, sometimes it's like very bad circumstance. And, you know, you could say there's some self-esteem stuff. You could say all there's reasons that sort of directed them down there. But I would also say just the only thing I would say in their defense is that I also have seen that there's some sort of like innate curiosity and let's say less inhibitions that these girls have and you can make an argument that maybe it's bad judgment. But there's almost like a sort of like authenticity to it for them. And- You want the break? I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm trying. I'm having a harder time to follow. I'm trying to understand what the question is. I guess I'll just be, what I'm trying to say is that- You can be blunt with me. Can you ever, like, is it worth trying to convince certain girls not to do it? Because they're automatically on a predestined path and that even- No, that's- That's the issue that I have with those fucking reports because it's not you guys, it's the report. It's what the information that you guys have been given makes it seem that way. I'm gonna tell you the actual statistics. Most- Hold on, but I just wanna make sure that you think that under natural circumstances no women would choose to take a life of prostitution. If a woman had safety and security, no. No. Because out of all the women that I've worked with and men, none of them said, like, friends, not on camera. Not a single person has ever told me, oh, I did it and I'm so happy. It's always, they call me at three o'clock in the morning crying, I'm sad. These aren't women that have been molested as children or things that have happened to them. These are, and they're not women that were, as you said, horny or promiscuous or wanting to have sex. Those, I'm gonna tell you the- Nothing to do with, by the way, I just wanna make it clear. I'm not talking about women wanting to have sex. I'm talking about a lack of inhibition, which is- I mean, that's a lack of inhibition. Well, I mean that they don't wanna wait. They don't wanna wait for him to commit to her or they're not waiting for the social opportunity. What you're stating is promiscuity directly correlates into becoming a prostitute or an only fans or escorting. And that's what I'm having an issue with because that's a huge misconception that's being thrown around. Actually, the primary, the most of the essay workers come from the need of safety or security and a lot of them, yes, they had, they come from that kind of demographic but that doesn't, the correlation doesn't mean that that's the reason why or that women that have that happen, that's what they get into. Because if that was the case, you wouldn't have the nymphos that are attorneys that are sleeping with the entire bar association. And we see them all the time. And that's the other thing too, girl, Ivy, you've seen the new trend of like the clean girl look, right? The like old money trend? No. Girls are like, girls are li- This is for all the guys to know too. Some of the hoists that are damn near prostitutes and getting everything for free that look like their hairs pulled back with the little pearl earrings and a little pearl net. Oh my God. They're like... And so that my issue is like the direct correlation that I've seen studies and my own personal experience has to do with women's safety and security, whether that's financial or emotional problems at home. There's a lot of different factors but I don't think that this idea that women are not promiscuous like men are, that's a long time gone already. We know that women do have the libido to keep going. We just have more societal standards that keep us more pure. And that worked for a while but what we're seeing is a huge overcorrection. We're seeing women think that they're taking control of their sexuality by opening their legs on this thing and selling it. That's not actual empowerment. Empowerment is when you hear a woman like I'm talking and I can talk to 20 people and I can still hold my own because I know what I'm doing. I'm comfortable with what I'm doing. I'm confident every day. I don't... There's certain things that like, let's say hypothetically I wanted to sleep with 10 dudes. There are women that will be happy doing that and then go to her nine to five and not tell a single soul. Just to make sure I understand, is your contention that the big degrading variable is the exchange of money? No, you're condensing it to the exchange of money. I condensed it to safety and security. So you're saying that if a woman has a job then she might go out and she'd go and be promiscuous and that doesn't make it... I'm trying my best to follow you but... I'm saying that if the first statement that you were making it about was a woman's sexuality whether she was promiscuous or not. What I'm saying is that there are... That's a misconception that many women are promiscuous that do not end up on only fans or escorting or any of these SA attributes. What I am saying is that there are also women that are really horny and sleep with half of a football team and only have a nine to five or they're an attorney or they're a doctor but they're promiscuous but they're not going on only fans. So that the... I guess my point here is that are they not going because they're an attorney or a doctor and they don't have like is it... And security. She has safety and security. She doesn't need to do only fans and it doesn't empower her. Bro, read Pat's newest email. That's all I got to say. Cause this actually... Pat, you understand what I'm saying, right? Because it's... Imagine all men thinking that women don't have promiscuity that we're not horny, that we're not like, oh my God gag me, right? Because it's a really bold statement. That's the only reason I had a harp with it. It's not exactly... I apologize if I'm not being clear about it. It's not... The point is not for me so much about... Like promiscuity to a large extent is influenced by social acceptance of it. That 50 years ago, you wouldn't have most of the women. You have like the bell curve. You have some women who are very crude by disposition and they're still crude even in the society. And then you have ones who are sort of more not. And they've always been... And I guess my point is that they've always been there. And I think that there's something very innate to those women that in any other era, most of them would have fallen into a similar kind of profession. It's more the middle where we have this gray area. And I agree, a lot of those women maybe are promiscuous or they seek around because they can socially. But that's sort of what I've been trying to dig at with Ivy because I've seen some women and it's not obviously a guarantee but you can see that this is a woman who would probably be comfortable to a certain extent doing porn. Because she has in its... There are elements of, well, okay, she can get money for it. Is she doing out of desperation? But I also think that it goes the other direction too, which is that, well, I like this. I really like sex. I'm really open and I like to explore. And so why shouldn't I make money off of it? If I like it, you know? Like there's that girl... That's... No, you're hitting the nail on the fucking coffin because my issue when Ivy talked about it, she said we're in a recession. It's practical. I can understand that. And I've done all of the research on this. Only fans opened up right at the pandemic crisis. It was the perfect opportunity. A lot of people were in an economical crisis. But what happened afterwards and during the time is that we normalized it. That gray area that you're talking about is what I have an issue with. Ivy, I don't have an issue with it. But there is some women that are just fine with it and can move on. I'm a woman and I'm trying to... I don't know how to plead with you guys. I know you've got to plead with anybody. I'm just having a conversation. But I do because it's everywhere. It's not here. It's everywhere. What I'm saying is there are some women that are just okay with it. Yeah, but the women... The amount of women that are okay with it is like Pat said, one out of a hundred. It's not the amount of women that are actually doing OnlyFans. And I'm a woman. I'm not my game. My name in this or my whatever in this isn't all bad OnlyFans. Honestly, my only couple of girlfriends that I left LA with, one of them is an escort. And it's the only good friend I had in LA. It's weird to say. So it's not in condemning. But there is... This is atrocious what is happening to my sisters. I am a vagina. I know what it's like to sell a piece of myself and be devastated about it. And what I'm watching is my sisters doing that over and over. And no one is begging the question and everyone is like, oh, yes. You got to get to the point too, as I get, you know, there was a comment in here. It's like, nobody's coming to save you, man. That's just the bottom line. Yeah, but nobody comes to save the guys either and you don't see every guy opening his bottle. What do you mean? Yeah, that's what this whole thing is about. Like that's what the man's bear is about. He's really talking about, you know, again, this really wasn't supposed to be a man's bear content. No, but it is. What I'm saying is that anybody that wants to save themselves is going to look for that help, period. That's what I found out. I've got a friend who's going through some rough shit right now. And I had a buddy call me yesterday. I sat on the back of my truck at Lowe's and talked to him. And I said, the bottom line is and he's going through a rough time. And I'm not saying Ivy, you're going through a rough time. There's no correlation to you. But I told him he hasn't hit bottom. When he hits bottom, he'll reach out. Let me explain it in a different way that doesn't help. People handle things different ways. Like your friends that you have over there doing, you know, I know you're from like LA or wherever and out there in California. Man, a lot of that's different. Like you get places like LA and Miami. I've been to Miami many times. These are, these are not Miami is not Florida. I don't know what it is to the women. I've heard some weird stat that like one third of the women. I don't know if it's under 40 or have only fans. I feel like there must be some data garbling there because that is. There is, I'm sure, but it's, it's pretty prevalent. Like, like Tony's right. Like it's in metropolitan and I say this in metropolitan areas. It is extremely prevalent. It's yeah, it's extremely, but okay. So let me say this in a way that maybe people will understand that it's not about the only fans. It's about the lie that women have been told and it's on all accounts. It's not just what we've been told in regards to men. It's like me and my experience with filler. When I got it, doctors said you're going to have to come in every couple of years to get it refilled against dissolved naturally that you will have no issues. It's completely FDA approved and all these things. No complications, blah, blah, blah, blah. Turns out it doesn't get fully, you know, I was very smiling. That doesn't sound right. I was raised with complete opposite. So I'm like, what is every doctor? Only fans and this is new. It took a medical doctor doing MRI scans on women to prove to the medical profession that it doesn't dissolve. And so you have someone like me that half of my face was pulling and I didn't know. So my spine was actually being pulled down. My entire body was being pulled down. And it comes from the fact that older women influence us and say, it's okay. It's not a problem. The doctor say, it's okay. It's not a problem. Only fans, it's okay. It's not a problem. I'm left to deal with my repercussions of my decisions and it was pretty bad. So my talking this way and asking these questions and being this blunt is because it's the same thing with only fans. I see a pattern of women being lied to in multiple different ways where we do. When I got my filler, people asked all the time, I'm like, I genuinely didn't think I was attractive and I thought it made me look more attractive. So I got it and it nearly killed me. So it's, do you see it? It's the same thing with the only fan. It's like, oh, it's okay. It's okay. But then no one's dealing with those repercussions until way later. So it's, and the women, this is the worst, the best part is the kicker. The women, when I talk to women like UIV, they don't have an issue with me. It's everybody else that's having an issue because the women that are actually doing it come back to me later and say, thank you for actually asking me that question. Thank you for telling me this. I have three girls in LA right now telling me thank you for having me think about these things because now I'm trying to figure out what am I going to do? How am I going to find a husband? How am I going to find a partner? How am I going to have children? So it's, we've hurt each other. Yeah. Hopefully that's because of a better picture because it's like, I don't want to hurt anyone. I like everyone. I just, I hate that we're hurting ourselves and that I hurt myself. And I say that because how many women do you ask? Does everybody ask? Why did you get filler? Oh, I'm just confident. No, I thought I was ugly. I mean, I think the simple question is, is if Ivy's okay doing what she's doing then so be it. If she is, absolutely. But I know as a woman talking to this many women and we're texting, I know what's actually happening and I'm not going to shut up and I will continue having I can tell you that, I can tell you that, you know, I've, I've seen your content. Obviously, I know you, your world is vastly different than a lot of worlds that I see. Yeah. But only fans is only fans. But what I'm saying is what I'm saying is you're seeing, you're seeing your world in, in LA, California, now Miami, these are, these are two drastically different areas than the whole rest of the world. They really, really are. Right. My issue is that they're influencing the girls in Oregon and Arkansas and in Ohio. That's like, I guess my, what I come back to with this is that we can say, okay, well, the economy is crappy. And now you have a platform where you can, you know, essentially democratize selling sex, right? So women are able to get more money from it. It's safer to have to deal with all the hazards of the street, et cetera, camps and all that crap. So. Yes. The, the really big question here, though, for me is, because, because you were saying earlier, Mika, well, you know, this one girl, she might be a doctor, but, you know, she'll, she'll sleep with a different guy every week. She's promiscuous and everything. I guess the, the, so she wouldn't, let's say that the premise here is that she wouldn't. And I think that that's probably right under most circumstances, that for the handful that might get a thrill out of, you know, the power, but, but I guess then we get to the point, which is like, what is really, what is really the, the malaise here? Is it like, are we, what are we stigmatizing? I guess is the, if you're stigmatizing something at all, what are we stigmatizing? Are we stigmatizing the, the promiscuity that was out beforehand or are we promise or stigmatizing women deciding, well, hey, if I'm going to be doing this, I might as well be getting paid for it. Neither. It's neither one of those. Those aren't, to me, those aren't the issues. The issue is on a societal standard that we have normalized it so that when Ivy and I have grandchildren, if this continues, those grandchildren at like 14 years old will start considering only fans as an actual career path, regardless of how great of a household they have, regardless of having two parents, regardless of all these things that would normally lead a woman to make that decision. That's my, that's, it's not in what's already happening. It's what are we doing moving forward? Cause there's a, the problem with the situation is it's, I, I study market trends, which means this upward deduction of only fans is going to hit rock bottom, just like with any trend. And the problem with that is that the women that were promised, it's okay, live for today, make the money. They're also going to have a lot of these repercussions that everyone was at, that not a lot of people were asking about. That's my issue. Why weren't more of us asking these questions? Why is a society, did we become so numb that we're like, Oh yeah, it's just only fans. That's, does that make sense? No, no, I, and I agree with all of that. I guess. But when we're talking about this sort of friend in society, like to a certain extent, like I ever feel like it's, it's a natural conclusion of stuff that came before it. Because I mean, look, if a woman's an economic necessity, she's going to turn to the old. This is a great comment. I had to. Congratulations. That is a really good one. I had to put that up there. When I see those, that's just fine. You know, every woman in, in a bad economic situation, not every woman, but many, if not most women, in a bad enough economic situation, will turn to some form of prostitution to survive or to help her, have her children survive. And there's tons of stories about, of this and it's tragic and it's not done from any sort of desire for it. It's done out of necessity. But just as an, I mean, So what's your question? I'm trying to say is that like for women to get to the point where they're thinking, Hey, I can make some money doing this. I don't think that women who make that decision overwhelmingly were not women who were already used to being promiscuous. Like if we're looking at only fans as like a career path, I think that there's a certain subset of women who are more exhibitionist and way more sexually open and they might want to actually pursue it as a career path. But that if we're talking about like your average girl thinking of doing it, she's going to only come to the conclusion of that this is even an acceptable concept because she's been sleeping around a ton beforehand. She's like, I just slept with like, you know, 20 guys this year. You mean I can get, it's just like, just like the Blasio eating that burger. You know, if I, you say if I get vaccinated, I can eat this delicious burger you know, some sort of like, that has always been there for them. That has always been there and porn has also been there for a long time. So I think, I think what we're saying though is that like prostitution has always been there, but has women being promiscuous, not being horny, right? Being promiscuous, has that always been there? And that hasn't been, I guess it has the differences that women thought twice about it. I'm telling you, because I'm from this era, it's when only fans was introduced, if a woman were to say, I'm going to start doing adult content or anything even remotely close to that, I'd be aware around the same age. You'll remember this, prior to only fans, if a woman were to, I mean, even the way that we dress significantly changed in the last 10 years, you wouldn't be caught wearing like something like a crop top this high. Now it's normalized. You don't see women not wearing as many crop tops. It's the same thing with only fans. Those issues and social and economic issues that you're talking about have always been there since the dawn of time. The difference is how women, and I don't, to me, it's not the men, it's the women. The women were the ones that normalized this behavior. The women were the ones that welcomed this behavior. The women were the ones that told me and Ivy, yeah, it's no big deal. Don't worry about it. Do what you got to do, baby. And that's what guys don't understand because you're not a woman and you've never had that position. I'm telling you, it's the women that have started these conversations that made it safe for other women. That wasn't here when those social and economical issues were happening. I mean, the reality is it's the men who let them do it. I mean, Yes. I mean, not you. It's your father's. Parents. Yeah, but I will really, like side with Mika on this, that I think that the sexes fundamentally pollute themselves. You know, like, some guy, you know, seduces your daughter and, you know, sleeps with her. Like it's her brother, your daughter's brothers, you who are the ones who are going to deal with that guy. Meanwhile, it's usually the mother who's dealing with the girl. And I do think that, you know, the boomer generation was very much like they didn't preach for the most part. You know, let's just say, they didn't really tell women to guard their sexuality very much. That's where it started. That's my issue. And then you start to have maybe some degree of like women who are dissatisfied themselves who might tell younger generation to do things that will also, you know, lead to a level of dissatisfaction. But I guess the point, just to really make sure I'm being clear here, is I see only, this only-fans phenomenon as an absolute inevitability of the commoditization of sex that began with promiscuity. I don't think that you can separate the two. And I actually think that it's in some way that maybe, that as it is societally, it's kind of a good thing, because it is a sort of like reflection point. Like we're at this point, like every girl's going to have an only-fans, we're like, wait a minute, stop. We have to really take a step back. Women have to have to think about the consequences of it. For them or not, if it fits in with it, with their lifestyle and what they really want and their long-term plans, rather than it being, and I mean, you know, I'm also curious what you think about that IV, about this sort of like really making sure that women go and enter into this with like a very conscious aware state. I do want to just say one thing really quick and then I'm going to hop off. I did the research and stuff and the same people that are promoting women's sexuality and all of this stuff are the same women that are the same people that made the feminist movement to begin with, that got us to the position that we're in, which is why I'm having such a hard time understanding why there's not more people pushing back on women doing only fans because the only reason that there's so many women doing it is because of the normalization. So if we did... And it's because of the men, men, you, yep. It's lucrative. I mean, it's... Well, that's true, but... But what I'm saying is that somebody's paying for it. I said this way in the beginning of the show. Somebody is paying for it. It's men that are paying to see women. Period. Period. It's also menacing with men's mentality, too. The reports are showing. Yeah, but, you know, it depends what reports you look at. I mean, you know, I mean, really, I mean... Is this association because they're using women... I get that. I get that. You know, all studies, all reporting and I don't care if it's from... I mean, it's just logic. It's all... But what I'm saying is things are... All studies and all things are basically kind of biased and they're... You know, there's... You know, I was listening to Rogan here and how they do... How they actually do like... Like studies for drugs when they give somebody something. Now, somebody reacts to it. They kick them out of the study. So, a lot of things maybe that... Yeah, no, that's just the fact. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's... I agree. But that's why you have to look at the reports. But what I'm just saying is, Micky, you've got to be very careful. It doesn't matter if it comes from the American Psychological Association or food. A lot of times they're feeding... Okay, but let's retract. Let's go ahead and retract for the next one. So, a lot of times we're just feeding what people... What's going to fill their narrative period and that's it. Right, but what I'm saying is I actually do this and I do have to look up where the reports come from because the Mormons like to pay for a lot of the reports, actually. They literally fund a crap ton of them, especially when it comes to women's permiscuity. Mormons, they... Yeah, the report that you were talking about where we're talking about women's permiscuity only accounting for 5% to 10%, the Mormons paid for that one. That's why I have a pushback for it because it has an agenda, just like you're talking about. The research that I've done has deduced it to the implementation on both sides or victims. When we had the... All this stuff going into the... Not just Roe versus Wade, but also the... Help me out here, guys. Well, fair, right? We always ask... The men's side always says, well, the woman said, I don't need a man, I don't want a man. And the women always said, but the men left us. The men didn't stay. The men didn't do all these things, right? I go into it from not just the reports and where they come from. I also go into it in the practical way, also using psychology. Men... Women, when they had the... Because they didn't have the rights and when they were able to have money that they didn't have to work for, it's like a sense of power, right? But then for the men, which is never talked about and never accounted for, when women, we have children, we carry a child for eight months. You're a mom, right, Ivy? Carried a term, nine months, technically ten months. Technically, yeah. I'll just say, technically ten months, I was more. But it's that bond and that nurturing that you provide for your baby is not comparable to what most men are... Most men are not... Are going to be good fathers. They're going to be present. They're going to provide. They're going to support and be there and be all of the things. But there is, when a baby is crying at three in the morning, it's going to probably shut up better with the mom than it would with the dad. And so we see it, we never look at it from this angle of when a father is faced with the decision or with the mother saying, I don't want you, I don't need you. Courts are against him. All of these different things. We never talk about what the man is psychologically thinking for women to really grasp that, which is I would never be capable of taking care of this child the way she can. And to get into the mind of a man and a woman, when you look at the unaliving rate and how they think about it individually, women contemplate it three times more, but don't execute the plan because they think what will they do without me. Men actually go through with it three times more than women do because they think in their minds they'll be better without me. I'll be in the way. And it's that same mentality when men are giving up their position in the fatherless household. So if you understand all of that happening in the 1950s during the sexual revolution and all of this other crap and you see how it skyrocketed and you see men and women blaming each other, I don't see where men and women are each to blame. Even this only fan situation happened from that sexual revolution that happened from having fathers out of the household. Because if we had fathers in the household during that time, we probably wouldn't have had as much of the sexual revolution. So it's to me like, I don't have a I don't think anyone's at fault. And I don't think that more to be revealed. I gotta go though. It was great to begin, Mika. I was like, what did the mid-tales say? They're like, you're like a chicken. Well, it was really nice to meet you, Ivy and Tony. This is cool shit. Well, thanks for coming on. I appreciate your input as usual. Absolutely. I think these discussions are necessary. I really do. It's cool. I really appreciate Ivy coming on and being frank with us and being honest with us. Yeah, you know, maybe you might have picked up a couple inconsistencies in your mind and that's great. And I'm not saying that you were right. You were wrong. I felt she was being honest with us the whole time. I felt when I asked her a question she would just answer it. And that was the whole point of tonight was to just to talk with her about her. There is no, one thing I don't want to do is judge her at all. No. She does what she does. And that's fine. I'm happy that she came on here to talk with us. She didn't have to do that. We've been chatting over the past couple of weeks. You know, it's funny because we had a couple chats. I think one lasted like 40 minutes. I'm like, this could have been a great podcast. It's being her talking. Aww. But that's, you know what I mean? I found that she was open and willing to talk about this. And I'm not here to bring any judgment on her, on you, on anybody. But I think that if we don't have these open conversations, what's the point of anything? I mean, I don't do this to make money. I do this to enjoy these conversations, period. You know, facilitate a conversation that hopefully, you know, the people watching enjoy also. You know, there's a lot of people that, there's a lot of people out there. You guys, you know, four people on this panel probably like this. Ivy, this is her first time on a panel discussion, you know, and it's about her, which is really cool. But there's a lot of people that are like in these chats and stuff like that, that have never ever experienced this type of conversation. It's different when you're in that chat box right now than it is to be sitting here on this panel showing your face and talking about this. And I also just want to say like how much I really appreciate it because generally if you have a conversation like this, it's just some sort of pageantry where you have like, you know, it's like that show whatever, which I'm not totally against it. But I don't watch it. It's all just like, let's bring on some like really basic girl who's just going to, yeah, just everything and scream about it and they get judged and it just goes back and forth and it just everybody's just, you know, talking past each other. I really appreciate you coming on and being just so candid and calm. And I know it's not it's not easy because even some other questions sometimes just, you know, not even with any intent behind it kind of come across maybe even in a judgy way. There is one last thing I want to ask before I have to also jump off myself. I'll tell you what, let's finish up with your last question and I'll end the stream, but go ahead everybody wants to hang per second we'll chat backstage, but yeah, go ahead. You've had a look into men that most women really don't have the chance to. I think that there's something that's very interesting about your profession where you have you see almost like the male shadow that's sort of like hidden side of men. I think that even a lot of guys if they're in relationships don't show their own girlfriend. And so I'm just curious what have you what have you noticed? What have you learned about men since you've done this? Dude, I love that question. Ivy, that's a great question. I like that. There are a lot of men out there that are more interested in like speaking to a person and not just a porn star. And there's a lot of men out there that are interested in getting to know the person on the cam or anything like that and it's not only about watching a girl being naked online and also there are the other side where that's a lot of fetishes and a lot of guys that are just looking for a quick session and it's just there's a lot of different things out there. But definitely I found that more and more I think because of how big only fans has gotten that there is a lot more men out there that are looking for more of an intimate discussion or an intimate person and not just be someone that's scamming them or just trying to make a quick buck and that's where I was kind of going with I enjoy it but I also don't want to be that person. I do want to be more of a personable I guess you can say porn star on only fans or even on the my free cams and stuff like that because there are people that I sit down and have conversations with and they'll tit me just to have a conversation just to learn a little bit about just to pick my brain or for me to pick their brain and stuff like that so yeah there are guys out there that aren't just looking for a naked person on the internet. Yeah I mean it's you know there are a lot of guys I mean we you know in this men's sphere space we'll call it again this wasn't supposed to be men's sphere content but in this space I mean realistically you know I've said this a million times the entry fee to this space is usually trauma but there also another entry fee to this space is guys are lonely guys are lonely period it's just the way it is and those are the guys that I think that maybe you know in a strange way maybe you talking to that guy might have helped him he had an inaction with I would be nice I would feel good about that interaction with a woman maybe he normally would never have had I mean and it yeah might have cost him a few bucks but you know what he might have gone to work that day and said wow I talked to a pretty woman today period yeah and sometimes maybe that's all a guy needs as simple as it is you know I'm just I'm just you know no I mean because that's on that too and you're right I think I think everyone here I think it's like an unspoken thing at this point but it's not like the happy guys that are spending the money doing this they need to care too right and I think that that's that is that is a role that people in your professional Ivy have played for a long time and I don't think that it's ever really appreciated you know I don't I mean you look at like I'm not comparing you to a prostitute or anything Ivy I don't want you to think that but how many times have you heard the stories where the congressman or the senator will tell all his dark secrets to the girl yeah I mean you've heard that a million times yeah and I mean what's that one guy in California where what is it the Chinese lady you know was sleeping with half the guys in the you know and just like they're just like you know the one guy what was it was it black rock she just like I think you do yeah where he just she just he just told her everything he ran the company blah blah blah she got all the info she needed you know but I think I think and I'm this term an archetypal archetypal terms but I think men often only feel like they can be themselves around the whore and that's the thing so it's like they want to they want to marry the Madonna but then they feel like they can't be themselves around around them and one of the things that I always talk about with clients is dealing with this sort of like it's it's a dissonance essentially that they can't bring that they have to compartmentalize and they can't bring that out of a individual woman and I think women themselves also and this is this is related to the email right that reference yeah absolutely women tells I think also often struggle with their own identity in this archetypal dynamic but we're at the end of the stream I don't want to believe conversation it's but it's this is really really interesting to me Ivy Mika I just really appreciate the conversation me too I did want to just say one thing to correct it when I was saying like there's inconsistencies I did not mean to be disrespectful inconsistencies sometimes come from our subconscious just letting shit out and so I was trying to catch them for you Ivy and I didn't mean to make it seem like I'm catching you in a lie because a lot of people do that in these spaces and we you're a liar and I'm like oh my god so I'm sorry no it's more that I was very nervous and you know questions definitely threw me off sorry no it's okay I appreciate it actually but yeah told you maybe sometime you could come on make a stream sometime and chat no it's fascinating guys it's I've never had a woman that said I don't want to talk about this how dare you ask me these questions how are you talk every single woman I've ever talked to it's weird that's why I'm thinking like the women didn't they were like me where everyone's like yeah yeah yeah it's fine it's fine it's fine and it's like when you have someone that cares it's nice fang fang that's right yeah that's it I think someone said who was the hot guy on the bottom right so funny alright well let's wrap it up tonight I want to thank pat for coming on if you want to hang backstage here for a few minutes pat and then Anna Minka thank you for coming on appreciate it always always welcome you know that and then I want to thank our guest of honor Ivy for really just kind of chatting with us would you freeze up Ivy oh sorry but I want to thank you for coming on and talking with us tonight you know I hope maybe people got a little insight on what you do and why you do it again I'm not here to judge you I'm here to talk with you and you know that's what this kind of my reality check Thursday night has been about for a long time you know I've had great conversations with pat a lot of other people but you know for you to come on here I'm going to give props to you you didn't have to do it you know I asked you once or twice and we chatted then we had a conversation you felt comfortable and I'm glad you spent time with us tonight I'm glad you got to know few of my few of my people here for sure yeah and I appreciate you having me on here it was definitely an experience and I've definitely been enjoying these new experiences in my life well good good appreciate everybody that came on we're going to end this broadcast everybody in the chat man I appreciate everybody hanging in there a lot of people have been here the whole time just give a few shout outs J wall coogs Johnson coogs Johnson I just love that name man hey coogs said that he's trying to tip Ivy I'm going to hold you to it sir so you got my links you got our links in there they're in the description so find you I appreciate everybody man and we'll come back here shortly with the either Saturday night get it off your chest or another Thursday night reality check appreciate everybody from 21 again I'm Tony Bruno I want to congratulate Anthony Johnson on the new baby him and Alyssa Charlotte dream Johnson again congratulations Anthony and the best to you guys many more kids to you I hope so alright guys take care everybody thank you for coming on and everybody in the chat take care appreciate all of you cheers