 Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to Y-254. It is the touchline and I am Robert Osoro. Joining me right now is Nganrua Kamuya, he is a sports lawyer and also the director of 270 degrees marketing and investment agency here in Kenya. And also a member of the football Kenya Transition Committee, Ali Amor. He's been here before and is here today and we are going to talk about a bit of what the Transition Committee is going to hand over on the 15th when they are termed. Actually elapses. But before we go to that, let's talk about something that everybody loves and everybody is in everybody's mind when it comes to sports. And that is the name that has been fronted to be the new cabinet secretary for sports. The question will be Nganrua, if he gets into office, what will be your expectation of Ababu? Obviously, thanks for having me here. It's been a while but it feels good to be back. The first thing obviously is that he's been there and I had you mentioning in the previous segment which is very correct that the Sports Act 2013 that we currently are using actually was moffed in his term as then minister for sports. What do I expect from him? Like I said previously, maybe two weeks ago, you see at the point of view becoming a cabinet secretary is essentially about developing policy. And you have to have somebody who's willing to listen to the technical and the experts. He might not be an expert himself but he might be willing to listen to what the experts are proposing with regard to the ecosystem of sports and that's what I expect of him. I don't want him going there to boss and to think that he's the one who knows everything but I want him to go there and sit down and listen to the people who know what needs to be done in the Kenyan sporting ecosystem. To make it commercial, to make it a business, to make it work for each and every person who's involved in sports and that's the player and all the other people who are employed by sporting organizations. I've said here repeatedly that if you look at the professional sporting organizations in the world, two thirds of the workforce of that sporting organization is actually the people behind the scenes. A third is the technical, i.e. the coaches and the players. And like any business, the focus is always on the consumer and the consumer in this particular instance is the fun. Everything has to be fun centric. So from government what we want is policies attracting private investment. I don't know why we keep on crying about government constructing stadiums. I have said here repeatedly, the government of England doesn't own stadiums. AFA is owned, Wembley is owned by the AFA, Trikenham is owned by the RFU. So what you want is to bring in private investment, make it for example tax incentives for the people who are going to be constructing stadiums or putting in their money to construct stadiums. But big picture for me is two things, is promoting team ownership. We have to have private ownership in teams and you have to make it attractive for the high net worth individual to put in their money to run these organizations. But big picture for me is, I would like to see, there is a law that runs in Spain that I really love. Let's hear from Ali. Ali, from the private sector thrown into the lion's den of Kenyan sports in a transition committee and also trying to run football for the better part of six months I think. The question will be, what lessons from the challenges you have picked that you can actually advise the upcoming CS on what you can take over and what you cannot do? First and foremost, congratulations to Moshiwimababu for coming. He's been here before. Yes. And what he came up with, the first CS actually to enact the sports act. Yes. And it was a long journey for him but he really fought for it. Yes. He was happy because the real custodian is back. Yes. Of the sports act. That is a plus for him. But when he was away and other CSs came in, many changes are coming in. In the sports fraternity, not only football. Football now, sports is about commercialization. It's a huge industry and we've never even touched a 0.05% out of it. That is one. Yes. We have to be a driven policy sports country whereby the policy is protecting the player. They fund the technical branch and the investors. Yes. Because investors want to come in but we are restructured ourselves. So when they come in it's attractive, they can realize their returns. That is very key. I've said it and I'll say it again without fear. Government is not supposed to be funding sports organization. Yes. And that's where we are now talking about the sports ecosystem. That's where we are actually. In a nutshell, in a simple conversation, what does it mean when we talk about sports ecosystem? It's everything that plugs into a sporting organization. So let me give you an example just to show you how big the sports ecosystem is. So we all know that Tottenham Hot Spurs used to play at the White Heart Lane. Yes. And they constructed their very magnificent stadium called the Tottenham Stadium. Yes. But before the London City Council approved for the construction of the Tottenham stadium and from them to leave the White Heart Lane, Tottenham Football Club had to prove and show how they are going to compensate for the businesses that are going to lose their revenues at the White Heart Lane. That's the ecosystem we are talking about. It's not only the players. Yes. Like I say, in the organization in itself, if there are 200 people in an organization, or let's say if there are 300 people in an organization, only 100 are the technical team. The players and the coaches, 200 guys are behind the scenes. There's the usual departments in an organization, marketing, business, finance, ops and all that. But there's something that Aliyah said of air that is a very big industry in sports and that's analytics and data. Yes. And the people who are collecting that, they need to be paid salaries. That's just the sporting, that's just the organization in itself. Now let's go to the stadium. Let's go to the people who are feeding off that, the merchandise stores. Let's go to the beverage vendors, to the food vendors. That's just in the stadium. Yes. And then think about all the businesses around the stadium. That's the sports ecosystem. Yes. That's what we are talking about. Aliyah, we are going on to a World Cup year. It's the World Cup month. And if we are to understand it even from the World Cup perspective, from the FIFA World Cup perspective, the ecosystem also includes that commercialization and also the marketing angle that all these people have come to enjoy from this perspective of the FIFA World Cup. How can we actualize it for us locally? See, if you look at what happens in other countries, first the World Cup, the name itself, World Cup it's a brand. Yes. It goes all the way to all age levels. Right now you're mentioning there's a World Cup coming. Yes. Then they start hyping it up. The main sponsor, Coca-Cola and the rest, they will hype it up all over the country. Usually there's supposed to be tournaments, screens and everything. If you go to countries like Brazil, you'll find outdoor screens. Yes. Now, outdoor screens, the World Cup is in Qatar, but there's an outdoor screen in Sao Pao Tao all over and inside the stadiums. What does it happen? Now I get back to Akili. Ecosystem. Yes. People go and sell their stuff and everything. Sports usually moves economies. Yes. I want to give you two a good example that we've experienced in the category. In the next season, we'll have for the first time a preliminary club coming from Kiriniaga. For the first time. Yes. So if FC is going to play, they'll go to Kiriniaga. Kiriniaga. Now look at that ecosystem, that business. Yes. For the first time, you'll have a team of KPL in Bomet. Yes. They've never experienced that. But now, when a big team, any team that comes, for example, Bandari travels all the way to Bomet. Bomet. Now, aspiration, economy moving and all that. And that's what you're saying for us to develop. Yes. We have to distribute sports. Yes. Coming to facilities. We need just go a neighbouring country. I think Kiyanga is building one of the biggest stadium in East Africa today. With their own money. And the reason is they restructured themselves. Initially, the club was about passion. Yes. Which is understandable because food was about passion. Yes. But they restructured themselves and said, okay, almost 50% for funds. Yes. It's other 50% investors. Investors. Now that is equity holding in the club itself. Yes, exactly. Then investors, now it is segmented. Yes. Marchandaise. If I start naming the value of marchandaise in clubs. Yes. Just marchandaise themselves. Yes. Imagine selling a million jasis at $10. Yes. Wow. That's $10 million. That's $10 million. That's a thousand shillings. Yes. A thousand shillings. Yes. Just jasis. Yes. And this is a one-off season. Yes. It's a billion. Yes. It's a billion for a club. Yes. You know, something that for us people here at home have not understood it completely and they will need to understand. I'll ask the question, what is the biggest challenge? Because when you look at, let's say the NBA, Jordan was a big name in the 90s, late 80s, early 90s, finished his career in 2008. 2008. 2003. 2003. But last year in the financial year of Nike the Air Jordan sold for billion and that was actually only to the African market. To the African American and the African market and all that. For us here, what is the challenge that we cannot get into that? Because this is just one individual making all that for this company. The funny thing is that actually just to piggyback, you know Nike was actually an SME before the same Jordan. It's now a global company. But anyway, what's the problem? I believe it's because people are thriving in the chaos that's a spotting ecosystem in Kenya today. And if we bring such comments and we talk about such things, we're either told two things, we're thinking too high or you guys have grandiose ideas or nini amyukenye muna sema. That's a statement. I've recently even heard it as recent as three weeks ago. Somebody told me you have big plans, they can't work here. And it's because there are people who are thriving in the chaos and the viewers can interpret how they want to interpret thriving in the chaos. But it's exactly what they are thinking. You do not want to professionalize as he's told you. That's one of the ways to go about in terms of younger. You do 50% for the club or 50 plus one for the club and then 49% for investors. That's how Bayern Munich does it. You have how the English teams do it where they open up all the 100% for investors. You have to have private people putting in the money. This thing about community clubs we are warped in Kenya thinking about community clubs. Liverpool is the biggest community club in this world and it has been privately owned from the day it was started. Another one will be human resource because for you from the private sector who has been given a chance to work in this industry. You have seen how it is. Is it that for us we are the people who do not want to get the right human resource for this job? You know there are two things we need to talk about human resource. There's competence. There's competence. When you are hiring somebody or when somebody is administrator what are the level of competence? That's the first thing you look at. Does he fit in that position? Now when you don't have competence then continue it is stagnant. That's why you seem like Jordan. There was competence. He was not the one running it but he had professional people to do it. So one is competence. The problem we have not only in Kenya but Africa. That's continuous of recycling the same administrators. And that's why today we don't have structures of youth teams all the way down. I was talking to one of the scout the other day and he said come to Kenya and he asked me one question I'm coming to Kenya but I want to see under 17 do you guys have a league of under 17? Because if it's a scout who wants to come in you cannot take him randomly he has to come to specific and see this is a league. This is a league played in this county. Now from there I want these players. There are some academies even in Nairobi which are doing very well. They are trying to channel some good players but it's not structured. So because of poor structure the investor does not come in and want to put a pin because one the investor wants transparency. Then now we have a vacuum we've not digitalized our sports for a time. Today if I ask you you've been in the sports desk how many referees do you have in football? No idea. Ask any official they don't have. How many coaches do you have? And these coaches what are their qualifications? So these are the things that we learnt in the Cateca and the TC that we discovered that because there is no proper data collection the fraternity is not digitalized you can't tell Wakili cannot go and say I'm looking for a coach then when he goes and dial unless there is a reference. Yes. Either WhatsApp or a call. It doesn't work like that. Yes, it doesn't work like that. You're supposed to have your data and say these are the number of coaches then you'll know do we have a vacuum you need to fill then training programs. Yes. If you look at Barcelona you have your own proof. Yes. Yes. Yes. Now you can log in online and go into a training. As you are saying maybe you will not reach that level can you turn the A or S and partly as a sports training center. Yes. If you want to be a referee you go in it's an ongoing cause. Yes. You want to be a match com it's something that you know education does not stop. It doesn't. It does not stop. Yes. We have seen in Kenyan football whereby there will be a session for training referees then it stops. So if 3 months session we don't know what will happen next. And I've been pointed you'll find a very good boda boda guy who can be a very good referee. Yes. So that is employment. Twice. Twice. On Friday a Monday to Friday he'll be doing his boda. Saturday he has a whistle. Yes. True. And he becomes a brand ambassador for where he comes from. Yes. Yeah. So it's a cultural engagement. Yeah. And also it's canonical growth. Yeah. But because our decision are not data driven. Yes. Are not informed from data. Yes. That's how we always get lost. Yes. Now that's one of the biggest challenge we actually need to address. Yeah. The currency is trying to address it and he says I'm sure he'll come and conclude it. Yes. You know a quick fix to what we have in the federation is what I was mentioning before. There's a law that is in Spain. Brilliant piece of legislation. Yeah. That basically says if you're going to be the official of a federation you have to be able to guarantee 15% of the federation's debt. Income. Debt. 15% of the federation's debt. Debt. Yeah. That's why his name is disappearing. Dariel Madrid guy. Peres. Quarantino Peres. That's why Quarantino Peres has been president for Madrid for all those years. Yes. Because he's a wealthy individual and he can guarantee that 15%. Yes. Now imagine if you do that in Kenya. Immediately you kick out the political people. In Kenya would raise it even to 40%. Yeah. You kick out this political people. It's business as usual here. Here it's about two things. You have the technical guys who are developing all that you're talking about the structures from grassroots all the way feeding to the national team. Yes. And then you have the commercial guys who are looking for the money for each and every one of those products. Yeah. You know under 17, under 15, under 20, under looking for all those products. You have to separate the two. You cannot be and that's a problem in Kenya. You want because again thriving in the chaos. In fact let me just call it as it is because they want to cut deals. You want to pursue their technical but you also want that's a big problem. Yes. And because we are hungry people and we don't guarantee that debt we are talking about that's your avenue to make money. So you are more focused on the commercial because you are there to cut deals more than you are to develop the game. Yeah. And the youth system as you have brought it up is actually the key major way that we can make our ecosystem work because if you are starting from the under 5, under 7, under 13, under 17 going up all these companies also come for sponsorship they look at the whole structure they will not just look at the developed professional they will come to the youth system. Yeah because you know you need to have a pipeline, a feeding pipeline. Yes. You see and the youth are the feeding pipeline and there is a lot of talent and because the distribution is not done very well in sports entirely, not only in football so there are some section of the country which doesn't get opportunities to thrive in sports. Yes. Now that's one of the challenges. Yeah. The other challenge is when you have youth and they have proper mentors that I don't let's just keep it as is. Yes. So the youth become physical fit then they look into the mentorship they know this is my problem because if I'm not doing well in school but I'll do well in sports thank you. Yes. So the option because sports is bigger than agriculture. Yes. Very true. It's bigger than agriculture. If we start doing the numbers of sports here you will be shopped as Wakile has said only much under we've given you selling jazzy for only 10 jazzy. 1000 shillings. One million jazzy. That's a billion shillings. That's a billion shillings for a club. Yes. Not even different. I know that these clubs don't have one million funds. They have one million. We are and you can actually it's very easy to do it through platform. We don't look outsourcing. Yes. We don't look outsourcing whereby I can log in go and watch a match and pay only one shilling of five shillings. Yes. Now imagine if there's a match being played and funds physically go they study on other funds which is crowdsourcing they just log in. Yes. How much is that? So we don't have a structure revenue stream that actually can bring a lot of cash. To me I said people sometimes feel bad. They say government is not supposed to be fund. And what actually scares away the investors when they come in and see these loopholes that you are not that are not taken care of. That's what scares them away. They can be sorry just before a comment on your question there's something I want to add on to what Ali has said. The other thing I want and it's a very very important point that Ali has made about sports and education. Yes. And you see the problem in Kenya is that we pile drive our children that you have to be successful in education but that's not maybe your talent. I believe that you should be able to leave off what your talent is and if your talent is sports then that should be the case. Now what do I want Ababu to do if he becomes if he's vetted and he goes in we have to have a system where scholarships are rewarded based on sports and not academics. Yes. Yes. Academics is important. You have to have a base minimum like they do it in the states is you have to maintain a 2.2 a second lower then you're guaranteed your scholarship for after the four years when you're done you have two options you can tan pro or you can pursue the career that you've gotten but it is sports that guaranteed you to study in school back to the question that you've asked about sorry I've lost my train of thought there the loopholes. The loopholes yes it's very easy to seal these loopholes. My argument has always been I think the government of Kenya and I'm not talking about the leadership I'm talking about in this country we just need to engage those resources and those loopholes can be sealed easily. Again we are not doing anything new Ali has just he's rightfully pointed it out it's happening in Tanzania you have younger you have Simba they've already been privatized it's already happening in Africa we are not going far it's not hard to pull in all these issues and I mean in March we talked to NASCAR as we're hosting our conference in Karen and we were just for Ali's sake we were dealing with somebody who's worked in the NBA FIFA all the big leagues you can talk about and he made a comment to me that week he said you people have platinum but you're not digging for it like there are material for lack of a better word the raw athletic talent that's in this country is ridiculous but we're not digging for it we're not digging for it and I think those loopholes can be blocked like Ali has said life is about learning let's start it first we will learn where the loopholes will come in and we'll block them as we go on and it's whether it's rocket science rocket science if you're running for example a club simple basic thing need to have an ERP system yes you see you didn't have one business analytic guy you need to have a business plan business reviews the player if you go to other countries players log in so when their pay slip is generated be told for 4 days instead of coming 4 o'clock you be coming 5 o'clock so your seller is deducted simple basic system and there's a lot of competence in this country to do that Kenya fintech if you look at the fintech oh we are far much now we only need to take the fintech guys to sports once you've done that then it's a frog leap so that gap we'll just fix it raw talent you just can't imagine we went to Malindi to do a futsal league you know we don't have a beach and futsal a beach we don't have it and in itself it's an economy itself look at Brazil it's an economy itself so just by introducing a beach league already you're bringing people together along the entire Africa coast some countries have small coast but very big futsal and beach football now we don't look into that there's one place that we have not gone into there are some young boys are trying to do digital leagues e-gaming e-gaming gamification we are not even looking at it we are nowhere if I give you just a comment on that this I know is going to excite Ali because that's his background we have been engaged in something that we are doing with the Kenya Rock Building which I think you've seen and basically we've got in a Swiss based tech company to develop their fun engagement app which is what we call the customer relationship management system CRMs and he'll tell you how important CRMs are and let me just give you a short story just to show you how important CRMs are 10 years ago Rail Madrid hired a team of 40 people from Microsoft to develop their CRM and the CRM essentially what it does is that your funds your funds data is there so the sponsor knows to who they are marketing directly to the fund through the app anyway Rail Madrid developed and you see how Rail Madrid is in money or they've been in money in the last 10 years when Spotify signed this deal with Barcelona a few months ago the deal was actually reportedly supposed to be worth 600 million dollars the one with Spotify with Spotify yes but the reason why the deal was halved is because Barcelona did not have a CRM so Spotify asking ok you tell me you have 350 million funds in the world where are they me all I have is your club membership which is 3 million Rail Madrid have 500 million funds in the world they know that 97% of their funds live outside Spain so 97% of their funds will never even have a chance to visit the Banabao so how do we curate how do we curate our content for those guys content creation is very key and if you're not creating content in your sports then you're completely lost today we have national teams who have offices and centers in China look at France Leblu they have an office in China why there's a following Bajana I think they have one in Singapore in Malaysia Liverpool following and football has changed the physical visit in stadium has changed people just log in and they do follow ups and with content you can disrupt you send disrupt messages their lifetime funds whereby they get birth the messages personalize those messages now all that we are not capturing it as we are still on there I call them petyrangul yes I agree that petyrangul and this football only football itself can employ everybody who is in rangul so imagine having a CEO for under 17 managing their country because your CEO you'll have maybe somebody in the county as a deputy CEO in that county just managing under 17 or under 15 some people aspire to be team managers you tell me have you had a cause of team manager no no no it's huge to be a team manager for a team it's huge now if we have those trainings in the country those are still revenue for the minister of sports that's right and for the government and for the government there are people who want to become doctors I met and it was very shocking because first you rarely hear female doctors wanting to get involved in sports but she just completed her orthopedic orthopedic surgery or rather she's an orthopedic so as we were talking she told me that she did her thesis based on the athletes athletes in Kenya and she was in shock like she was like ngarwa I am in shock at how our athletes are able to compete globally with what they have in this country now that's somebody who wants to pursue that line but is it a career option we are not giving her the environment we are not giving her the environment she's not going to be paid she has to be paid her salary where we are generating the revenue of it and there is also the issue of the career option as it is right now as disgruntled as our system is we are not short on talent a lot of talent has been chand out from the youth but what happens is that and I keep on saying this I am leaving example after high school there was no point for me to continue playing sports because it's not a career option I am lucky I had parents who couldn't afford to take me to university but there are so many guys whose parents cannot afford to do them it has to be a career option it has to be a career option the question will be what can be our way forward because now we are here it is maki as it is but we need to move to the next level you are talking about solutions first for solutions to be accepted people have to be active listeners yes we have to be active listeners and accept the solutions because this is not the first time the Zakia Teka Komiti we have done a report calling it 58 years of confusion the first Kia Teka Komiti was in 1964 immediately after independence the first one it tells you now the birth of Wrangles and you look at the report it tells you each and every year what happened there are people that you are not even talking about players both national team and club players if you hear their stories and sometimes I joke with Bobby I said you remember in Abidjan you guys were sleeping on the floor at the airport and then you are taking to someone's house in a place called Zonkat and it was a guy in the army a Kenyan who took them and put mattresses on the floor and that's where they slept but Kenyans don't know that for us who played football and we follow it we know how many issues and challenges the national team players have gone through but we don't forget they are their brand ambassadors of the country some people are still talking about them in different countries if you go to Egypt today and you talk about Goal they remember they remember and still our teams are followers from outside but how do we capture them so as I said we need to have active listeners and people who can action the solutions what are the first solution is the first solution is the incoming CS to ensure that the sports act is enacted they should not be compromised on the sports act that is the first thing a second thing is to listen to the first group of stakeholders which are clubs the KPL clubs both women and men so those ones they should be told now go and reform back you can get a premier limited club commercialize fully commercialize then we put them policies in place for you to run a club these are the requirements sometimes you can achieve all of them at once but then you are given a gradual roadmap we want to see you have a physical office what are your plan of having your own ground ground who is your brand partner because we are actually you know brand equipment partners we don't have them people just buy jazzy from area say this is my jazzy do you have a physical place so you are selling your jazzy do you have an online merchandise shop then after that he listens to the other stakeholders who wants to take over the office and everything just their views and how can we stop because this rango we are taking a committee in this country for 58 years we have been having all these issues now then you come to the practical part is the operational part I am talking about how is football distributed not in terms of marches if I go to Turkana how many referees are coming from Turkana if I am going to Osangisha I want to see do you have team managers if I look at that count you say because right now everybody is talking about if you go lower it's more chaotic it's more chaotic you find that a team has been playing in great sedivision 2 or county but if you look at the number of teams these guys for them to come to KPL will take 7 years so already the player is aging at the grass and that is talent mixed the other thing is who are the people running this football what KPIs are they in place because you can't football is business if they are not KPIs then we are lost there has to be KPIs there has to be reviews and one of the recommendation saying quarterly reviews by federations you come and present to the CS this is how much you have received this is how much you have spent this is our roadmap there has to be reviews and once you have business reviews with the CS or the accounting officer will not have this situation surprises so if all federations are doing their business reviews they know that quarterly business reviews with the sports ministry unless we turn this into a business with proper business plans proper roadmap we are going to be very successful and as I said the employment opportunities in sports it's huge it's huge people are fighting to get into sports like what is happening in Europe today and even in some other countries look at their commercial activities in partnership with the telkoga yes I think it was it I saw the other day on the news where they have complained about their jazi design and they want adidas to change the design of their jazi and I was like when will we get to a chance where adidas can consider Kenya let me tell you as he said we are not short on funds yes we are not short on passion we are not short on purchasing power what we are short on is governance and the structures within the sporting federations and if you clean that up because I've had conversations with those organizations Pumas, Adidas, Nike and they are not a vast coming into Kenya in sponsoring some of these teams they don't dispute the fact that the brand is big and you can actually push volumes that a million is talking about we have 50 million guys we have 4 million in Nairobi that a million jazis a year and a guy can buy 4, 5, 6 guys in his family if you are talking about 1000 bob the $10 is talking about so we are not short on that the issue is just the governance structures it's too messy I'll give you a story about so like private participation in terms of stadium investment and talking to some guys of the US I told you just before the show the way they are calling it in Europe they are calling it the scramble and petition for Africa they see where the loopholes are they are already planning to come NBA is already here, NFL is already here we haven't noticed it we are sitting on our backsides we don't know what's happening anyway so as we are talking to them and dealing with some partners that we have you'll be shocked to find out that Kenya was actually considered first for the basketball africa league but because of the chaos that's here and the lack of goodwill from the government they went to Rwanda and you see the bars that's being generated in Rwanda of the basketball africa league so we there's not saying the minute investors start hearing noise they don't want to touch you and that's what we need we need to be less political we need to be business driven business has to be the main thing and for me the two the two stakeholders that have to be focused on by each and every sporting federation in Kenya I used to think and it's no disrespect to our players I used to think that the player was the most important part of the game but it's actually the fun Todd Bowley did say that he has been asked what keeps him involved now just after he bought Chelsea he has been asked what keeps him involved in team ownership and he said whenever I want to get carried away I remember at the end of the day the fun is the most important part like every other business the consumer is the most important part Ali just talked about by in Munich having offices in Singapore and all those places they are there because they have funds and they have followers so we have to be customer centric and that means we have to be fund centric we have to be fund centric number one number two we have to be player centric those are the two main people we have to focus on and our administrators and the CS incoming CS has to have as he is saying I agree 100% with the reviews these reviews need to be happening quarterly where he blanks out a whole week to review all the federations and they come in and they present their KPIs but as they are presenting their KPIs those places have to be the focus the quote goes I think it was from Jeff Kennedy who said don't ask what the country will do for you but what will you do for your country and I put it to you Ali for us our conversation mostly everybody is what the CS can do what also these sports people what can they do also to the government so that it can be a very good playing field there is a lot of experience also competence but conversions you experience how do you convert experience or that opportunity into development because at the end of the day the end game is the results how do we measure our results so the problem here is we don't have measurable policy we don't have them here is more of partisanism Wakili is my body so even if he is wrong or Ali is wrong once we get out from that then there is transparency integrity and values then you will see our sports growing look at our athletics they perform they perform individually I want to win this marathon I will win this marathon and it has been through out from long time and even the rugby team do you know we had a very good hockey team in this country one of the best hockey teams and maybe some generation don't remember but as we remember we had a very good basketball team from schools if you see if school competitions in basketball it was stiff competition you find a school like Kadindotunga coming to win titles in Nairobi in basketball so in schools we need to have structures and enjoying those structures with the federations that sports and education and if you want to be a referee then go for a cause to be a referee so that you are a certified referee the second thing I will advise is to ensure that the certificates are issued from the ministry of sports for recognition you are a certified coach you went to schools we know you now those are the things that we need to put in place the other thing is you want technocrats to be running sports if we don't commercialize we will be left behind we have to commercialize and the sponsors are ready the sponsors are ready to come in but the sponsor wants to come in and say how transparent is this federation because of a sponsor I am coming to invest I need to see the returns the returns is maybe brand awareness conversions and I told the KPL guys form your KPL limited don't say the clubs are the shareholders but how shareholders have one shareholder let's say the KCB guy sits in as a shareholder the media sits in as a shareholder the Telco, the FMCG company all of them are investing so when they are actually advertising everybody gets an opportunity and they put the money in so they start developing that's why on a t-shirt sponsor you can have your brand here but you know your brand is protected because you are a shareholder of that company so unless they go that direction then you see a lot of money coming in then if the players the players is the most important the second point of the define these players are the insured that's the first thing so insurance company can say do you know how many players we have registered 450,000 to 7000 on the FKF league imagine insuring 450 7000 even insurance companies will open up so the players should be insured and it's not difficult and if it's for NHIF the money goes straight so this player and NSF this player does not suffer you've seen the other day on TV the young boy will suffer we feel bad because he's actually asking money for drugs money for drugs money for drugs just want to buy some drugs but when he was playing everybody was staring now we don't want to leave our player to go that direction we want to see him still being okay that's why I say if we have a players union today it will be the biggest more than the teachers union you know something that players union let me tell you I always say the maker of commercialization of sports is America even football in England piggybacked of what America have done now in America they have three stakeholders you have the league you have the owners and you have the players association now let me just tell you they call the NFL is more geared towards an owners league so the owners get most of the benefits the baseball the MLB is a players league so the players union is very strong they have some of the best contracts then the NBA is a 50-50 perhaps it's the best thing to copy from but they have a collective a very lengthy collective bargaining agreement that for example says for an NBA player the list you can be paid is 7 million dollars when on number 12 list in number 12 on the roster 12 7 million dollars insurance play insurance benefits they contribute towards a kitty that takes care of them afterwards the league has to devise programs after playing your days after playing so you decide Ali is very good in digital so we plug him into the digital space and he grows there and that's how this people label that's the sports ecosystem we are talking about we see the number of football players in England who have gone to become pandits actually most of them that's where they go they either go to 3 places you get over and done with the game and you don't glue it again you get into management or you become a pandit that's the ecosystem we are talking about so all these things can be done like you said the player union is very important but I also believe that the player union has never been operationalized because strikes the strikes will become which is okay for me I have no problem we know the set of a player union per se and this is we are meeting with the legends and the fifth pro guys and everything what I advise them to say have tiers from 1970 to 1980 is tier one these are retired players and everything what can they do but some of them have gone back to the village these ones we say they could be match coms they could be brand ambassadors for school games so then we go to tier two so tier one this is what they do up to the present tiers and the present tier is the active players and you put policy you are not active so that so that you go and strike no we don't want strikes in sports we just want you as a player to be protected so if something is happening to a player wakili being a sports council you say hey something is wrong here uniform contracts for players uniform contracts okay I know wages could be different but everything else minimum basic that insurance pay salary and everything is in place players do get bonuses we've seen contracts whereby a sponsor comes in and tells the federation or the club during half time I want him to talk about our brand those are images images right because that player has a contract with the club not with the sponsor we want a player to talk about a particular brand then you as a brand should talk to the player's lawyer and say can he feature in this exactly this conversation will never be over but your last word um sporting federation needs to realise that there is no difference between them and billboards we need to stop waiting for the CSR money from these corporate organizations and start eating into their marketing dollars they shouldn't be a difference between a sporting federation or a club and a TVC a commercial or a billboard but we need to repair our image we need to make it fan centric we need to get the numbers in and I will quote, I forget his name but there's a marketing executive at Apsa, Kenya and he said that corporate organizations are entitled to sponsor sports in the right governance structure I live for you your last word my last is and in coming CS God willing he takes over the office football is a country unification factor and I know he's going to crack it he has a legal mind experience he's exposed it's a unification factor let's bring back the football we had before where we used to fill in the stadiums but this time around commercialize it run it as a business anything without a business plan from any federation don't even listen to them want a proper business plan governance policy and look into their constitution is it a friendly constitution or is it an individual driven constitution then involve the governance countrywide and you see and here actually the results of the economy will just change by itself without any any rocket science kind of approach so that's what you want to see commercialization and digitalization of sports without actually just a statement in the world right now we say there is no sponsor who is going to touch you without a digital growth strategy so that's just what Ali has said well that's how we come to the end of the touch line thanks a lot Mngaro Kamunya is the director 270 degrees marketing agency and also Ali Amor who is actually a member of the football Kenya Transition Committee I'm Robert Osoro with my colleague Max Olaseke for everyone who has made this production a success we say good afternoon of your viewing here on Y254