 All right, it's five o'clock and I'm going to get started on SLP, this is Watch Me Work where we get to talk with you about your work and your creative process. We've been doing this show for about 14 years. We started in the lobby of the public theater and we have them moved on to Zoom during COVID and we've been on Zoom ever since. And what we do is we work for 20 minutes together. You can work on anything you want. You can work on writing or music or a dance piece or whatever because it's Zoom and you can just do whatever you want. And then after 20 minutes, we will talk with you about your work and your creative process and why we do not have the time for you to actually share your work like read from your work or show us your dance or whatever. We do have the time to talk about process, your creative process, so you'll ask me questions about your process and I'll do my best to give you some of my thoughts. If you want to ask questions about your work or your creative process, you can, we can hear how to do it from Lollie, take it away. Yeah, so if you're here on Zoom with us and you want to ask a question, you can use the razor hand function which is in the reactions tab, likely at the bottom of your screen. If you have any trouble finding it, just let me know in the chat and I can help you out. And then if you're watching live with us on HowlRound, you can ask your questions via the public theaters, Twitter or Instagram accounts or via the Watch Me Work Twitter account which is at Watch Me Work SLP with the hashtag HowlRound, that's hashtag H-O-W-L-R-O-U-N-D. Awesome. Thank you, Lollie. And we will, yeah, before we get started, we'll give a big huge thank you to the public theater and to HowlRound for sponsoring us and helping us make it happen. And now we'll get to work. Here we go. Yay. Okay. Time for the Q&A. I'm wondering if anybody's got any questions. Oh, looks like Steve has a question. You should be able to unmute Steve. Great. Hey Steve. Hi, this is Lollie. I'm not sure how well to call you. I have so much love and just thank you for the gift of this, the grace. Thank you, Steve. That's so kind. Thank you. Glad you're here. I do want to say I'll show my age. I normally be reticent to do it, but I actually was, can you hear me? Okay. Yes, yes, yes. I just do this because I have a lot of street noise outside. Oh, excellent. Excellent. And I have rain. So we're in bed. I'm in DC, Washington DC. So I'll get to the work question, but just I wanted to say that I have the gift of being in the audience for Top Dog on Broadway. And it was a real thrill and joy. So thank you for the love and the gift and the giving. Exclusive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've been working on a piece that I see as allegorical or I maybe that's too much of an imprint already, but it's based in a historical moment during the 60s. And during the voting rights, kind of, you know, kind of fragility of things, if you will. And it's an incident that happened in my hometown in DC. And so I've been carving this out, going through the due diligence as it were. And a couple of things have been probably distracting thoughts, but having, you know, done this a little while and iterations as an actor and as a producer and different things. I sometimes think about, you know, you know, who will direct the process of directing I studied briefly with Lloyd Richards, and Mr Richards kindly shared in one of our scene classes and Richard said to me, I think one of the things he guided us through Raisin in the Sun, and he, I was working on a streetcar at the time as Mitch, but the point is, he was saying with Lorraine that they work together on the work, you know, in Philadelphia and a lot of places, working out the work. And so for me, one of the things I'm like, okay, who finding and I go to the theater and I'm watching work locally. And being someone with whom as you're trying to incubate the work is its own curious conundrum, even in the process. And I'm wondering how you might speak to that. Yeah, yeah, that's a great, that's a great question Steve. It's funny I was just talking to a good friend today about, you know, the workshop process and all that. And, hmm. I agree with Lloyd to say it's tricky I agree with Mr Richards. And I also maybe perhaps more strongly believe that if the writer does their work to the very best of their ability, then the question of who shall direct it is not as crucial. Because, because, you know, then we're, I really think that that we as if you're the writer that writers need to really like, dig in there and get as much work done as they possibly can, not on their own, because workshops are very helpful, wonderful actors getting on board are very helpful, wonderful directors are certainly very helpful. And still to depend on the director, you know, to provide all those kinds of things that we're not doing on our own is maybe I think sometimes. I think we're, I think it's maybe too much of a burden to place on them. That's what I think. So, that being said, they're what's great about now is there are tons of great directors out there who are to choose from you know I think a lot of the directing programs have turned have turned out a lot of wonderful directors, who would be perfect and you can look at me you come to New York you see plays you live in DC there's some great directors coming through there who you could just look at and you could go to a play and say well that play feels kind of like my play you know it's edgy it's it's it's it's political it's it's exciting that could be a director for me. Certainly when you find anyway so I'm just am I kind of saying two or three things at once but go ahead go ahead. No, I'm so thankful for you to take in the question most sincerely. It's just, I'm trying to stay with my head in the ground as it were with with whatever this is going to reveal. You know the child in me with the toy of sorts I guess and just you know I'm okay so you know where you know where who can I, because I've even seen your workshop, when you were working with Jeffrey, and the workshop before mountain with with Mr. Wolf. So I've seen that process with you even of pages and going back and forth and it seemed fruitful to you in the moment. I wasn't in your head. Definitely, definitely, definitely Steve, and just to remind you and the very first and two readings of top dog underdog were directed by me. So I was even going to roast that but I was like is that that's probably wrong. The very the very first public reading ever of it was held in a little rehearsal room in the public theater with. Jonathan Peck and Michael pots as late as Lincoln and booth. And then we had a staged reading at the New York now festival which was also in the public theater and Ruben Santiago Hudson was Lincoln and Jeffrey right was both and I directed those two. So I was leaning on me, you know, and that was and not you know I was taking notes from you know George and and and you know the Heidi and Jordan who was a cast you know folks you know I was taking John Diaz was there Bonnie Metzger was there. So there are people give me notes sure. But I was leaning on myself as a director, because again, and that's something you might do the first reading you might you might say, I'm going to direct this I mean again it was the first reading was a sit down reading actors with scripts, you know, script in hand. The second reading was, it was staged but it was script in hand. And that might be something that you might try. Thank you for listening. You know, you know, you know, but again, I'm just encouraging the, the, the primary generative artists. In this case, you, the writer to do the work do go ahead and do the work. I meet, I gotta say too many writers these days, who will kind of write a draft kind of sort of. And then look for a director to help them and look for a bunch of actors. I've heard actors say, yeah, um, the draft wasn't really finished and then we came in and told the writer what the characters might say things like that and that's okay that might be a writer's process, but I encourage the writer to do the do as much work as they can on the script. We'll do. Yeah, yeah, okay, but but you know you can direct the first reading yourself that can be fun. You know, and with a turg there or the producer there or whatever you know get feedback from the actors all that sort of stuff that could be fun. Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you so much, Steve. Thank you. Lori has a question, you should be able to unmute. Thank you. I'm going to echo what Steve said, I waited almost 20 years to see top dog underdog after I read it, and I saw it in New York and just thank you for writing perfect piece. It's like a dream come true. I was telling everybody the ushers everybody. Thank you. My question is, I'm just going back to school, starting my MFA and play writing even though I've been writing for about 15 years, and I'm studying the farce, and I'm writing my first farce. And one of the things I'm having a real challenge with as I've read a lot. But I can't really find sources that I can see, you know, and a lot of places just sometimes, you know, I've been reading a lot of articles, a lot of places aren't doing them as much. So my question is on process. Do you have any suggestions on either other media or other ways or other that I can start exploring to visually see some of these comedic elements, particularly right now I'm kind of working on the setups. So that's my that's my question. Right, right. Um, so when you read these plays, right. You want you, it would be more helpful for you to actually see them staged. I mean that's what you're asking you can't there's no place for you to see them. What about in film. Now. Sorry. It's okay. Yeah, I found snippets of films, particularly, you know, some of the earlier farces, but I really have had a challenge finding a full production. I've seen some of the classics, you know, Boeing Boeing noises off. But I'd really love to, especially the setups, you know, and kind of analyzing it so right so but you've read a lot of them. You have to use the venue. I mean, I, you know, productions are, are, you know, I think we're, we can only see what's being put out there, you know what I mean so if it's not. If it's there's Lincoln Center film theater on tape, maybe they have, you can go to Lincoln Center Library if you live in New York or if you visit New York, you can do that. Or you can just use the venue in your head and just imagine them, especially if you're just looking at the setups, you know, they just you just are looking at a very specific portion of the show. And you're just going to have to imagine in your head. You know, yeah, yeah, it's a great question though, but Lincoln do you live in New York, Laurie. Okay, you don't. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. They, they, New York, this theater on tape tape or whatever it's called it, they might have an online component now I don't know. They might have it's a library so they might have an online component. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks. And we try and get there at least once a year I'm down in Asheville. Okay. So, yeah, I will definitely check that out. Thank you so much. Thank you. I have a question for Laurie how long is a setup condition like noises off like how many pages is that I don't have it right here with me but so for the depending. I've just done a pretty decent paper on this. It's about eight pages but it depends on what elements are being set up, you know, so for example the relationship. It really starts the action of the two couples. You know, getting things confused can be anywhere from three to five pages some of the setups in she stoop to conquer which is a much older piece you know the setup is a little they and they had more characters then the setup, particularly when we're going to get into the mixed identities is probably two full scenes. To get the setup then we go to Steve Martin's the underpants and he gets right into it, like within the first few sentences so it's kind of all over the board. Right. I'm asking because you could stage it in your living room. Now there's an idea. I love that a few friends who wouldn't mind and kind of do you know the short you know do do a few of them like have an evening of like we're going to try three three setup for three of these plays and it's going to be fun. Okay, I love that instead of reading through stuff will do it. I love that. I think it's going to really really really get a feeling for what it is because you'll stage it. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. Any questions folks feel free to raise your hand or put something in the chat. We can just work until somebody has a question. Absolutely to do. Looks like we have a question from Larry. Hey Larry. Thank you. I got something. I sometimes fight. I'm not letting it stop me, but I sometimes one of my sensors that goes off that sometimes can stop my writing or is. Afraid judgmental about being cute. Or clever. So like I've been working on a section, you know, I think I mentioned that I'm in I'm trying to edit and get take the work that I have and put it into a format. I'm finding it a somewhat useful tool to have parallel scenes that go back and forth and sort of talk to each other. And kind of like, I always sort of admire the way like Tony Kushner does that and angels in America a lot and things like that where the scenes talk to each other. I'm finding myself that I, I don't know, it gets cute. Because even sometimes without my trying, I'll be like, Oh, that line sort of echoes that line. I can start to feel like the, the cleverness of the structure is louder than the content, or that it's to wink wink see what I did there. And I get. I don't know how sometimes it's sort of like in life when you don't know if you're making a ego based decision or a humble decision you don't. Because my writer ego is tickled with something some verbal jousting that I'm doing. And I don't know if I'm. Getting a distraction or if that's actually good storytelling. Right. So I just wonder if you had that's been on my mind and I didn't know how to word it. That's no that's a great question Larry it's tricky because, you know, aren't we allowed to have fun when we write, you know what I mean, or does it all have to be like, you know, are we allowed aren't we allowed to have a nice time. And if, if doing sort of jokes or clever, cute, fun things is gives you pleasure then I would just say keep doing it and maybe in a, you know, the next draft you might look back on it and go and maybe not I don't need that anymore. You know, but definitely if it's enjoyable. But if you're having it's enjoyable to you. Right now, you're the only one looking at it, you know. So, I think. Please yourself, you know, but be make it fun for yourself, especially if it keeps you going. And then, and then maybe next draft you might not need that anymore. You know, I don't know, maybe when we were, you know, five years old we needed a, you know, I don't know a little toy to carry around to make us feel happy and then when we became, you know, 25 we didn't need it anymore. I think it's okay. I would hate to say no fun. And it has to be all, you know, serious writing and I mean because sometimes you just got to get through the day and write something that makes you feel like this is fine. It might be the same feeling that you have when someone when one of we're writing or working and we're writing and we're going this sucks, right. Oh, so what, keep writing, you know, keep writing to keep going, keep going, you can fix it later. If it still feels clever in a bad way, the fourth time around, he might cut it. Right. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah, it's, yeah, yeah, I like that it's that the question is not stopping you, you know, that's good. That's good. Don't worry about that. I don't think I will. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Just like we don't worry about if we know in the back of our mind and this isn't the best narrative isn't really falling together like I want it to or that characters totally figured out like I know she should be. Yeah, just keep going fix it later. You know. That's good. Okay. Thank you. Thanks Larry. Looks like we have another question for Steve. Thanks. There's, I guess, a two fold matter. One has to do again in a practical sense. And I can always go to the website I know with the public theater and the like but I'll go. But when you're, when you're looking at at New York theater and the like and mounting work and the like and submitting and that whole process. And, and as a drama skill member, I mean, there are a number of resources. So I'm clear about that. But when you were first starting out as a writer, did you, did you submit to a number of different places with your work as you were looking to, you know, mount work and to get work up. I'm just curious about that process and you mentioned the new works at the public theater. Right. Right. Yeah, I submitted to lots of different places that did lots of different, you know, I mean I would go to theaters and go. That place does work that feels like mine. So maybe I'll submit there, you know, and I'd look up on, you know, whatever information they had and back then it was something called the dramatist source book I think it was this big thick book like a telephone book. And I'd look up and I'd send place to them, or I'd, I'd maybe hear if it was out of town and I hear of somebody who'd gotten a play done that felt kind of cool like it felt like my play and so I would send a play to them. But I was sending plays my work to a lot of different places, you know, to specialize in lots of different kinds of work. And I don't know so much the submission process today. I do think that individual theaters would have their own kind of criteria, you know, what it would be. But I was sort of like, Austin, my work to anybody, you know, I wasn't too, too worried or picky about about who should get something, because you never know, you know, you never know. So yeah, that's that's that's what I say to that. Okay. And also in DC, again in DC, you know, you have theater you have some cool theaters there arena Willie mammoth. No is it studio theater I think. Yeah, I mean, those are the three I know just off the top of my head. Those are just great places to do stuff. And then probably a whole bunch of other ones that I'm not familiar with right off the top of my head, but right. One of the things now in terms of the work. One of the thank you for that. Because this is a historical piece. And in many ways, I suppose, not to be soft mark or glue but I guess top dog has a historical context inherently, or it's narrative. It's been curious to look at this driving engine incident of sorts, which was actually a life that was taken an actual person whose life was taken and consequent historical facts with respect to the legal matters and, and other things that happen and noteworthy folks, I find it curious to find those interstitial spaces those imaginative spaces. Even someone mentioned angels so Roy cone to take individuals who are noted if you will in terms of cultural awareness in our history, human history, and then to find those spaces with when with which you trust yourself to give them voice to what they need. And one of the things that's been curious to me is to determine Okay, do I wish to maintain the factual names of these people, or is it more apropos of what I'm attempting to do allegorically and to deal with them by giving them I taking the circumstances, and the new circumstances I'm conceiving based on what happened and and yet. And so I've even read the play, most recently was really more kind of an anxiety thing, and I changed all the names of the store and I just substitute names. I found that to be very interesting in terms of following their needs their tragic flaws there, you know all the things they were dealing with, without the onus of the history. And dealing with whatever I was grappling with as I'm going through the engine of my concerns with these people and their their needs, if you will. Have you ever contended with such questions in your own work where you're like I wonder. Do I stick with these individuals and in fact and what they're doing or has it ever created a conundrum for you in the concept of dealing with people wanting and needing things between each other in the circumstances. Right you mean your characters we say people wanting to need any things your characters right. Yeah, it's tricky, I would say Steve do whatever is going to be most helpful. You know, so again, if changing the names of the of the characters you know moving away from their historical names to a made up the name that you make up makes it more pleasurable more possible. For you to get it written do that, because I'm sure the story is going to be compelling and then you could say it's based on, you know, you know this thing you could always say that I would really say you know, really make the choice for yourself that's going to make it the most possible for you to get it written. I write about historical people all the time and I, you know, I just, and people say well that person never would have said that well, you know, there's a, how you know. I mean, I mean, even, even, I mean I've written, you know, TV show about Aretha Franklin, you know, you know, and we work closely with the family, of course, but there were moments that, you know, people said well, which you've ever said that and I said well, it makes sense. It's plausible. You know what I mean we're not trying to shove words into a historical characters throat to prove our point. Never that you have to be very humble in a way. You know, in your interaction with a historical person, because they should be leading and you should be listening as much as possible. You should be listening. You've already got a historical record right. What you're listening for is the stuff between the cracks. And that's what you got to hear. That's why you're writing about them, because all of history, you know, hasn't been recorded and most of it has been recorded is in service of oftentimes some bullshit. So you're here to bear witness to what, what hasn't been recorded. And, but if it helps you to change their names change their names. You know, go for it. It's been curious, you mean they've been these moments where because there's a court, court reality, you know, US court reality and sometimes I'm like to what extent would I even allow for the word of record that's in the record from 1960s to inform this moment and so they've been moments like that, you know, even even and I'll even go so far there's another moment in a scene in which there's a him. There are hymns song and I've done the research around the hymns. And I'm like, this is a, you know, when I think about August Wilson and I think about some of the beauties I've enjoyed of August Wilson's work. Sometimes it's just the moment like in the piano when they're just singing but it's an original song piece it's not my. And so, you know, I'm, you know, we're conscious of that and the work okay do I take from the tone of this him and conceive of another him as opposed to the hymn that's familiar, you know, like, you understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I always say make the choice that makes it writable. You know, because I'm sure that the story will be compelling, even if we don't know the actual historical, you know, you know, I really do think the story will be compelling. Because which is another way of saying hopefully the only reason the story is compelling isn't because it really happened. You know, I mean, it happened okay great, you know, but you're going to make it dramatically compelling, which is different from historically accurate. Thank you. Yeah, sure. Cool cool. Thank you Steve. Awesome we have just a couple of minutes left. So, yeah, no, no one has a question I will just let you all know that we are here next Monday, the Monday after and the Monday after. And all of those sign up sheets are on the public feeder website. So feel free to sign up tell your friends about about it tell them to sign up you can always watch on how around. And we hope to see you back here for the next three Mondays at least. Perfect. Perfect. Nice to have your background back. Oh be true. We missed a lot. But thank you all yeah. We'll see you next week. See you next week everyone. Thank you.