 Good afternoon everybody and a very happy New Year to you all. Our speaker today is Adam Price who's the leader of Plaid Cymru. He's a very distinguished record indeed. He was a very prominent member of the House of Commons for almost ten years. And then he went off and left these shores and went off to I think Harvard was it. And then came back and became a member of the Welsh Assembly. In these times that we're in, it's I think very useful for us to hear from the leader of Plaid Cymru about how he sees Brexit and its effects on the relationship ships within the United Kingdom. And perhaps also on the relationships within the two islands, the two offshore islands. So may I ask you just to make sure that your phone is on silent and the usual rules apply is the Chatham House rule. The initial speech itself is on the record and then the discussion afterwards is off the record and we'll finish at two o'clock. Adam you're very welcome. Thank you for coming. Good afternoon and I'm very grateful indeed for the welcome you've given us. There's always a welcome in the hillsides as we in Wales say or rather more often sing. But for any kelt Dublin holds out a particularly warm embrace. I'd like to give a particular thanks to the Institute for its invitation for me to speak and especially to Andrew Gilmour who's organising hand has made the arrangements so smoothly efficient. My visit comes at a critical and anxious time for our two countries. We've already had one speech today by the leader of another political party which will remain nameless but now there's here's another one. In the coming weeks and not for the first time in our respective histories decisions are going to be made by others that will profoundly affect our future for years to come. To a great extent we and I think you as well naturally fear for the worse. The reality is that the people who will be making those decisions do not necessarily have our best interest uppermost in their minds. Their priorities are driven by other considerations not merely different to ours but even alien to ours in terms of our way of thinking. But at least in this matter you in Ireland are surrounded by friends in the European Union. Countries and people who are supporting your interests in a steadfast way. The monumental solidarity within the EU has been a truly magnificent thing to behold and not least when contrasting to the fissiparous wreck that is the British body politic. When we in Wales look around the European Union we can certainly find friends. But fear who have the structures, the power or the leverage to give us the support we need. And when we look across our land border to our closest neighbour in this matter of Europe among the political establishment we find only coldness, coldness in some cases hostility and more often indifference. Brexit for us in Wales has been a masterclass in our sheer irrelevance. If you don't have a seat at the table you're probably on the menu. So we're looking west for friends confident of finding them here in Ireland. Now there's much history we can draw on here of course. This is true not least in the history of my party. Irish and Welsh political nationalism were in many ways in lockstep during the interwar years and long afterwards. The first summer school of my party in 1926 was addressed by Kevin O'Sheel. Famously he was the first man ever to have travelled on a free-state passport to Geneva in 1923 to negotiate Ireland's entry to the League of Nations. Indeed every Plaid Cymru summer school in the interwar period was addressed by a Fina Foyle speaker often of ministerial rank. They obviously left their mark as my party adopted Shane Finn's early abstentionism at the outset and embraced Dominion status as our interim constitution policy in deference to Ireland and like Dave Valera we supported a policy of neutrality during World War II, a decision which came at some considerable personal and political cost. The tight knot between Welsh and Irish nationalism continued after the war and with a huge rally against partition organised by Plaid Cymru and addressed by Dave Valera in Cardiff in 1952. A breakaway group of the more cultural Celtic Congress advocating a union between the six Celtic nations was formed by my predecessor as Plaid Cymru leader Gwynpo Revens together with Donald Breen, son of the Irish revolutionary Dan Breen. Fast forward then to the modern era and it was noteworthy that when Wales first emerged as a political nation in the modern era, only a short time ago in 1999 when a national assembly was first elected, the Irish government took notice. Much to our gratification it established a consulate in Cardiff. It wasn't called an assembly, that would have been a diplomatic step too far but to all intents and purposes that is what it became. The consul general was a senior diplomat, Connor Redan who had been seen service throughout the world in the Far East, in Moscow, in Beijing and Boston. Now I don't know how much intelligence of use Connor was able to convey back to Dublin during his three short years in Cardiff. However, I do know he played an enormously important role among our emergent political society during the time he was stationed in our capital. When he arrived, Connor was amazed to discover that the British government wasn't establishing the kind of parliamentary institution being granted to Edinburgh. Instead, we were being given what amounted to a tier of local government, a committee structure with a cabinet bolted awkwardly on top. There was no separation of powers. The legislature was limited to tweaking secondary legislation and as for the judiciary, it didn't exist in terms of the Welsh constitution at least. The whole set up was pretty precarious and the assembly had an inauspicious start. We won our referendum by a whisker and in short order Labour lost two of its leaders. The situation in Scotland was quite different. They won their referendum emphatically and were granted a fully fledged parliament complete with tax varying powers. Since the union with England in 2007, Scottish identity has had revolved around distinctive Scottish institutions, a separate legal system, its own church, separate education and more recently a developed financial system and a distinctive range of Scottish based newspapers. Our situation has been quite different. Our identity has depended less on institutions and more on the survival of the Welsh language and the strong feeling people have for their locality, their bro, the places where they have been born and brought up. The result was that while there was a well established sense of Scottish citizenship related to institutions, in Wales our political structures only began to emerge towards the end of the 20th century. You can put it like this. When the Scottish parliament was created in 1999, it was as though the keystone was being placed in an arch of an already existing structure. But when the National Assembly was created in 1999, its role was to build that arch. Connor O'Raiden quickly grasped all this. He also realised that political institutions mean much more than the rather mechanical structures of parliamentary institutions. A political culture relies on the networks of soft relationships in civil society that oil the wheels, the NGOs, the think tanks like this, lobbyists, the press and media. We had to build those as well and we had to create the milieu in which they could circle it and do their work. In all of this, Connor was a central figure. He brought people together, often people who despite the small size of Wales and despite their sharing many interests in common had hardly met. Connor's and Ireland's regular soirees became famous and not just because of the wine that flowed or rather maybe the Guinness and the generous canapes. Invitations were much sought after because it quickly became known that it was here in the Irish consulate you could catch the year of the First Minister, his other ministers leading figures across the parties in wider civil society as well. When the history of this period for Wales comes to be written, Connor O'Reiden and the Irish consulate should warrant more than a footnote. Looking back at the last 20 years and all that we've achieved constitutionally in Wales, the separation of powers, the creation at long last of a lawmaking parliament, the coming of taxation powers, the steps we are now undertaking towards a separate legal jurisdiction, none of this would have been possible without the emergence of a cross-party solidarity on these questions. That would not have happened in turn without the creation of our distinctive Welsh civil society and that would not have happened without the contribution of people like Connor O'Reiden. Now I concentrate on this small piece of history because it's an example of what important though often unseen consequences can result from close relationships developing between neighbours. We were much encouraged therefore by last week's announcement that the Irish consulate is to be reopened in Carniff in June following its closure a decade ago as a result of the financial crash. Now it should now be in our view a Welsh government priority to open our own consulate one day hopefully soon an embassy here in Dublin. It should be much more than the current arrangement which is a few desks tucked away in the British Embassy albeit assiduously occupied by an excellent representative but it will certainly be a priority for an incoming Plaid Cymru government in 2021 to create a fully fledged Wales house here in Dublin. Because we have a good deal to learn from each other and a good deal to benefit from greater cooperation especially during these dark days when being pulled asunder by Brexit. There are many lessons for us in Wales from the remarkable advances you've achieved over the past decades here in Ireland many of them economic to be sure but others cultural in their impact. For our part I believe Wales can be much more than just a land bridge for Ireland to England and continental Europe. We hold out the prospect of being a political partner in a great project in the 21st century a project made more even more urgent by the Brexit debate a project that is nothing less than a fundamental restructuring of political relationships across this Western European archipelago. These are big claims let me start with the economic vision you've given us. In 2017 the Irish Republic grew its economy by 7.2 percent compared with 3 percent of the UK and just 2.7 percent in Wales. It's worth remembering that in 1960 by some measures people in Wales were about 60 percent richer than citizens of the Irish Republic. By the mid-1990s having taken full advantage of Ireland's independent membership of the EU for over two decades you overtook us. Now the situation is completely reversed. It's you who are 60 percent richer in per capita terms than us. Your growth rates since the 1990s have been truly staggering and notwithstanding the 2008 crash. The Irish economy has not only kept pace with other strong economies across Europe such as Germany and France but it's outpaced them and only countries like China, South Korea and India have had such an impressive record of growth over this period. The question is why one of your economists David McWilliams provides at least some of the answers in his recent book Renaissance Nation. As he says your economy took off precisely at the moment when Irish society opened up to new ideas, became more tolerant and provided dignity to people whose lifestyles were previously shunned. It seems to me no coincidence that the beginning of your economic miracle can be traced to 1990 that was the year that Ireland voted for Mary Robinson as civil rights lawyer, liberal campaigner and most importantly for this argument a woman as president. Another important moment of course and I speak as the first out gay man to lead a political party in the UK was the election of Leo Verandke as TD for Dublin West in 2007 and then as Tishik a decade later and it all came to head of course finally with last year's repeal referendum symbolizing the extraordinary changes that have swept through Irish society. McWilliams describes all this as a culture war about the primacy of individuals to make their own choices concerning their lives as he says there's a direct connection between the workings of the economy and such societal factors as the availability of divorce, abortion and contraception, private morality, women being educated, the LGBTQ community being afforded dignity and belief in science over superstition. In the western world enlightenment values and a successful economy go hand in hand. Now we have our own culture war in Wales but more of a political than a religious one possibly it revolves around the struggle to remove the debilitating pressure that has been pressing weighing down on us for nearly 100 years the weight of a single party state and the Labour Party has been a dominant force now in Welsh politics since 1918. Laborism has sucked the oxygen out of our attempts to renew life in Wales it's not democratic socialism or even social democracy that has been ruling our lives that rather it's been a cloak of warm mediocrity that has been extinguishing any spark of individuality and creativity in some ways the Welsh Labour state is the worst of all possible worlds a sort of weak managerialism that blends old-fashioned command and control with incompetence to use the colorful phrase of PSO hegety it is a collection of mediocrities in the grip of a machine worse than that. Laborism is a backward-looking identity one that relies on a dependency culture living on handouts it rejects notions of self-reliance and being responsible for our own affairs it's content to leave Wales in a state of infantile under development it doesn't believe in our having a mature national identity in fact it rejects most emphatically the very idea. Little wonder therefore that we started the new year with Wales still at the bottom of the UK's national and regional economic league table with income per head of 72.5% of the UK average one of the worst figures ever recorded. We only created the beginnings of self-government when we established the National Assembly as I said in 1999 for the last 20 years we've been led by successive Labour administrations afflicted essentially with a begging bowl mentality wrapped up in what appears to be a pragmatic common sense. Well Brexit is putting the skids under this underachieving complacent and unambitious approach to government in Wales. Whether Brexit goes ahead or not and there is hope that the progressive forces of which we are a part in Westminster can still stop it the ruptures it is causing are proving a powerful force for change. Brexit has wrought visceral divisions in both the Conservative and Labour parties both are preoccupied with maintaining their unity neither are fit for government but their disarray is an opportunity and not just for us as a political party in Wales for if we can seize the moment with imaginative solutions it will be an opportunity to recast Britain itself. What Brexit has shown with devastating clarity is that the British political system is broken, deadlocked, incapable of reaching a consensus. In these circumstances there is a chance that the Brexit decision will be driven unwillingly to be sure back to the people for a further referendum for a people's vote. This is something that we in Plaid Cymru would absolutely welcome indeed we've been campaigning for it and but if it comes that vote cannot just be a rerun obviously what went through in 2016 today we're faced with a new proposition we now have a better understanding about what it means to leave the EU the choice we will we will face is the flawed actual deal that has been obtained by Mrs May or remaining in the EU but as I say this this time remain cannot just mean staying with the status quo. Remain is not a particularly attractive slogan when you're living in poverty so it must be a question of remain and reform remain and renew remain and regenerate we have to actually present to people a different and alternative and better change project because that's why many of them voted Brexit those that were deeply disenchanted with the the existing status quo. So it must be a vote for a different Europe a different Wales and indeed a different Britain. Within the United Kingdom reform must mean a new state where economic wealth is distributed more equally this will benefit much of northern England as much as Wales Northern Ireland or Scotland. A host of statistics reveal how much wealth investment and research and development are concentrated in just one tiny corner of Britain in London the English Southeast it's the explanation why this is the only part of Britain that produces currently an economic surplus the rest of the UK is in deficit and persistently so so this systemic imbalance is the source of much of the social injustice in the UK and indeed as I've said the it propelled the leave vote in the 2016 referendum and it's the result of of political choices over successive generations by political administrations and Westminster of both main political parties and it's in stark contrast really with the the core prints European principles of cohesion and solidarity it was telling that in the 2016 referendum the progressive remain forces of the left campaigned as Scotland stronger in Europe and Wales stronger in Europe however in England they campaigned as Britain stronger in Europe for the progressive forces of the of the British left in England their own country was not worth mentioning that has to change and we in Wales with our friends in Scotland and Ireland can be part of making the change the left cannot afford any longer to allow the right increasing the far right to have a monopoly on English pride and patriotism and by our own example we can show the way to a progressive remaking of Britain and that will entail a reinvention of a progressive sense of English nationhood as well and and where will that spring from well simply from this from an understanding that sovereignty is not a zero sum game it is in fact the opposite the whole European project has been about sharing sovereignty and through the lived experience of that sharing we've seen that it actually enhances increases and grows your sovereignty and the Republic of Ireland and your success over the last few decades actually is the shining example of that so it will be within these islands it will be composed of four nations different to be sure just as family members are different different in size certainly but treat it equally and enhancing their shared sovereignty through a partnership of equals and in turn this experience will allow the English to be truly themselves they will be free at last from the shackles of a British state that clings to an outmoded notion of an imperial past a state with an inflated hopelessly unrealistic sense of its place in the world a vision of its place in the world and this is the alternative vision that I hold out to you you may say that it's hopelessly optimistic that the English can never come to see themselves as simply English and European rather than global British to use neo-imperial jargon de jour that they condemn to a kind of a solipsistic existence of seeing themselves as endlessly exceptional I say that it's our challenge and by our challenge I mean that of ourselves together with the Irish and Scots to persuade our English friends that they have a better future forging a new collaboration on these on these islands a collaboration based on an equality of partnership and respect and I suggest that it will be a collaboration that builds on structures that we've already created as part of the Good Friday Agreement that produced peace in the north of Ireland the British Irish Council this should be a meeting place where we can begin to forge the common understanding that we will make we will need to take our new relationships forward our different nations are all at different stages in in the development in the Republic even economy and society anxiously preparing for whatever outcome emerges from brexit and particularly for the consequences in the north of Ireland in Scotland they are awaiting the the outcome of brexit to determine the timing of another referendum in independence England is in a process of becoming England in Wales as ever we're waiting the decisions of others but meanwhile we are making plans for a greater say in our own fate our aim in Plaid Cymru is for a referendum by 2030 at the latest but earlier if there's a material constitutional change such as iris unity or Scottish independence on our own independence as an issue I put it to you that all of our dilemmas and choices can be illuminated made clearer and therefore easier if we work together in whatever forums we can agree to meet within the UK it will be within the joint ministerial council which brings together the cabinets of the UK government and the devolved administrations that needs to be reformed and made fit for purpose within within these wider islands the obvious forum is the British Irish council and in these settings it's not hard to see what an emerging agenda might look like brexit or no brexit an overriding need for a fairer distribution of investment and economic growth across the UK as a whole and a need for a recalibration of our political institutions to ensure this will happen and that means a confederal relationship between the nations of the UK evolving along the lines of the Nordic council of sovereign states that governs the relationships between the Scandinavian nations if brexit takes place there is likely to be an acceleration of moves in these directions the centre cannot hold and who knows there could be a scope as well for much greater cooperation between the Celtic nations even the formation of some kind of Celtic union to echo uh Gwynvore Evans vision from some time ago the most immediate institutional form for this would be as I've already indicated strand three of the Good Friday agreement which established the British Irish council it's strand three refers to the participants among obviously the Irish government the Welsh government the Scottish government the Manx government it suggests that they could establish their own organisation within its structure and I quote in addition to the structures provided for under this agreement it will be open to two or more members to develop bilateral or multilateral arrangements between them such arrangements could include um um could include subject to the agreement of the members concerned mechanisms to enable constitution consultation cooperation and joint decision making on matters of uh of mutual interest so the the platform is already there for deepening cooperation between the Celtic nations in these islands and such such a collaboration could obviously include the northern Irish government when it's reestablished it could establish a Celtic development bank for joint infrastructure investment projects in energy transport and communications whether that's um helping us with our tidal lagoon project that was cancelled by Westminster or even this fascinating proposal the Scottish government are looking at in terms of a Celtic sea bridge between Scotland and Ireland I've traced a large ambitious canvas I suppose culturally and civilisationally we we've always been nations of dreamers there's nothing wrong with that um um but whether we like it or not um and I'm sure many in England will not like it we have to recast the future we have no alternative in her game of high stakes political poker with her brexit strategy Mrs May is pursuing a dangerous and deeply irresponsible course she's pushing events ever closer towards the 29th of March deadline in an attempt to force people to accept her deal or confront the prospect of crashing out with no deal I don't think her strategy will work um it cannot be allowed to work quite frankly and we need to make common cause there but whichever way the current chaos of Westminster plays out there will be opportunities for our Celtic countries to work together for mutual benefit and I've suggested here today some avenues we might explore in Plaid Cymru we are anticipating these developments with enthusiasm for we're confident we will win the forthcoming arguments not just because the facts are on our side on our side but because we believe we have the better dream our vision um is for a new society a new politics yes a new Wales but but also a new England a new Scotland um I hesitate to suggest the new island as well but certainly a new Europe uh too let's let's seize that common opportunity thank you