 Yeah Okay, so let's maybe get started and at first let me as usual say thank you Thank you for being here at the conference and of course at my presentation, especially that now it's a lunch time So the beautiful and really tasteful sandwiches are served But we here are to talk about something really interesting Well, I mean not that interesting. We will be talking about pack shots so So I am not going to tell you how to create a unique Fantastic alien creature or how to destroy your city, but just something like this that you can see this is the pack shot and I would like to ask you a question. Is there anyone here in this room who doesn't know what the pack shot is? Thank you at least one person. Yeah, so I know Okay, and of course there are some people who are watching it streaming so I will Answer this question. What is the pack shot? It's just a shot. It's just a picture. It's just an image of the product So here we have some pack shot. We are simply presenting the pack what I am going to talk about is about creating pack shots for TV commercials and I will Do it not the standard way like okay, what to do to create a fantastic Shader how to light it and so on I will be more talking about the clients who we deal with and so on and what tricks I use to force them to eventually Buy the thing that I am providing so Okay, and why did I choose? Why did I choose to talk about? Pack shots. So just a few words about myself I chose to talk about pack shots because that's what I do for a living and my name is Bartek scurupa I'm a blender found foundation certified trainer and I publish video tutorials on my website as well as on The CG cookie. This is my profile at Blender network So and those are the examples of the tutorials that I published on CG cookie Okay, so back to the topic pack shots. Those are our heroes. So here we have example of some pack shots Yeah, this is the pack shot. Okay. It's not a standard pack shot, but it's a pack shot This is the pack shot something less beautiful, but Still and this will eventually become a pack shot. Yeah, this is a pack shot another pack shot and yet another one But yeah, another box. Wow Mmm. Oh, this is not a pack shot, but I included this. Oh, this is the box shot all those supers and so on This is the Polish language Some of you understand this some don't but it doesn't matter so now when we are working with The clients and when when when I'm creating pack shots for tv commercials There are several things that I have to consider and The workflow this is this is a very important thing and understanding the time You know, it's like everybody thinks that one minute is simply one minute It's a universal unit one minute one second one hour one month one week one day but the time costs money and Some periods are more valuable than the other periods In time. So for example the more time you spend on preparation The less time you have to spend afterwards and this is pretty important Because when you are working with the client All of the changes that they will want you to introduce will come afterwards that they will come At the end of the process. So for example, you have modeled something you have modeled something you prepared the shaders the Lighting and so on and you gave your client The animatic that will simply show the simple animation that you that's that you're creating So you think that it's over. Okay. I am done with the animation So right now I can hit the magic button render and render all of this animation And I think okay, they will never go back to The animation itself because they approved it well, they approved it, but Someday they will simply come to you and say hey everything is fantastic. It's really fantastic But please change it just a little bit. I don't want to change Much. I want to change the position of this part just a little bit So well and this just a little bit. What does it mean? It means that you should do it immediately right now asap Like in an hour And okay, and they will say Oh, I know that it needs to render for two weeks, but I just want to see it in motion in few minutes This is what they do now Let's uh, okay. Let's talk about paxels and the kinds of the paxels there are like several Two kinds of the paxels that we are working That we are creating for for for for tv commercials One kind is the pax shot that is created 100 percent in 3d. So you're the master of your shot The structure of the commercial usually is like we have like 27 or 28 seconds of the story. We are We have the actors. We have the set and so on and then the those those two or three seconds of the pax shot and We can be the masters of our pax shot. We can create everything in 3d, but sometimes the pax shot is also shot on set so Let's maybe once again take a look at some at those examples of the pax shots So this one for example, this is 3d 100 percent This is 3d 100 percent Here we have the combination. So some of The things here are Created in 3d some are shot And this is shot. This is this is all shot on set. So those elements this this one here and so on even though it doesn't look this way Those are the set elements Okay, this is shot obviously This is the combination. So we have something in the back. We have the pax shot that is it It was created in 3d, but then some elements were replaced and so on. So Some some work has been Done here. This is shot and combined with some some visual effects This is 3d 3d of course shot shot and Modified quite a bit. I will show you later Shot and modified quite a bit So When we are the masters of our shot when we are creating everything in 3d We can change everything and this is what we understand that we can do it. We can Okay, we can change the position of the object. We can change the animation This is This is not the problem Of course, the problem is that we have to re render, but we are still the masters of our shot sometimes However, you have You have the shot that is given to you So like in this case everything here has been shot and The client doesn't understand that there is a difference They can ask me to change the position of the object to change the position of the package And they understand that it's not a problem for me when I am creating it in 3d But they don't see any difference between 3d generated A shot and shot pack shot This is the pack shot that's been shot, but they Can ask me just to to move the element around But it's you know, it's moving the camera is moving. So Well, we have the problem and we understand this problem. They don't So let me show you The process Of creating the pack shot that you saw this one. Okay, this is the This is what came from the set. This is one of the versions That were shot now This is another version And let's take a look at this one once again And what the client asked me to do it it was okay The shooting is over. We are in the post-production And now they realized that one of the products of all of this Those things here is not available yet. We have to remove one of them from the shot this one Just and and they they simply say just remove it Ah as simple remove it Okay, so well So this is one of the versions and then okay, I removed it This is the This is the same shot with one of the package removed and then they realized well Those ones are also not So We came up with something like this and it's it it looks it looks awful Because you know all the composition is ruined Somebody spent some time on set to To composite all of this to place it and and and this is how it looks like it. It's crazy So then what they said they said, um, okay, so maybe It would be better if those packages are lying not standing. Could you simply Lie them down And I this was this this was the moment where when I simply say said no Finally, okay. No, I won't do it Fortunately, we had the other version of this pack shot this one where those products are lying So I simply said, okay, can we simply use this one and maybe I knew that it's It's easier for me to remove This pack from this shot than to lie those objects from the other shot. So I did it and This is the final version So well, so those are the crazy things that we have to cope with now In many situations when we are working with those packshots, I don't want to talk about the standard 3d generated packshots because this is this is obvious This is easy everybody here knows how to create them The only thing about those packshots that I wanted to share with you Or is that it's good when you're Doing repetitive stuff. It's good to have like Pre-made things like pre-made studio setups lighting setups materials and so on But this is pretty easy Let's go back to those more in my opinion more interesting Packshots that are shot on set well in many cases we have to track something and my workflow is that the center of the universe for me is After Effects, this is the program that I am using to Do visual effects to To correct some things in the life footage and so on and of course when I am Generating something in 3d. I bring it all to after effects and this is the center of my universe. Why am I saying this because for example Let me Let's imagine Okay, this is after effects and it's interface and here I have The shot that I am working on and let's imagine that the task that I'm having is to add some super Something like I can write something down. Okay, so I choose the I choose the font I choose the color of the font and then okay, I typed something and moved it Placed it correctly Sized it down And it's fantastic and now Okay, I'm playing it back and you see that it looks a little bit weird because you know, it's not attached to Anything it's like floating you you see that it doesn't belong to to the shot So we need to track this footage in this case This tracking is pretty simple. The only thing that we have to track is a single point And I have three tools for tracking to my disposal The first one the worst one is the built-in Tracking in after effects something that is built in after effects. It works horrible This is the worst tool The second tool that I am using is something that is called mocha for after effects This is a separate application It works fantastic. And the third tool that I am sometimes using Is blender tracking system and I wouldn't I don't want to tell which Which one of them the mocha or Blenders tracker which one is better For some purposes mocha is better for some purposes Blender tracking is better In this case, for example, in case I want just to track one single point I don't want to use any of them. I don't want to use those good tools mocha or Blender, but I want to stay inside after effects because When I'm tracking just a single point It's better from it's faster Just to track it here even though it takes more time and it's not that robust But I don't have to export the shots. I don't have to go to other application and then import the result back So in this case, I simply use this built-in Tracking device and I track a point like this point Bam It goes slowly. This is real time. You see how slowly it goes But you know it takes less time Then exporting it and importing the result back So that's why I simply stay in after effects and then I simply added the the object I added the null object null is the equivalent of empty in Blender So I added the null object and I applied those data to this object So now when I apply it this object just follows This tracked point and I can simply parent my super to this null object and I am done. This is this is how it's done And it works so it's no use to exit after effects, but sometimes you have some More complicated more complicated task. For example You need to I don't know replace Place the artwork of of this thing Here so you would need something some like four Corners and you know corner pin something like that, but you still don't need 3d tracking You don't need to track the camera. You you simply need to 2d track And then you can in some situations use the build in after effects tracking But this is not the best solution and in such case I would use the mocha tracking So this is separate application and what I do here. I simply import my shot I choose the frame rate and this is what I do. This is this is fantastic because okay I need to place Something here onto onto onto onto this object. So what I do I draw the shape but really rough See like bam, bam one point second point Bam Bam, that's it nothing more nothing more and I don't care If those points are in the corners or if they are not now I am adjusting this just a little bit maybe even something like this something like this Here in this corner. I would maybe choose this point This point Bam and let's track it Let's track it bam This is how it tracks And then what I do I don't care about the shape. I don't care about Where the image will be placed something gets tracked And now what I do this is this is like another layer that is attached to those To to to this tracks and and and here I have the corners. So After the tracking I place the corners Of the image where I want them like this Bam and bam Just take a look I play it back I will play it back in a moment Maybe I hope Okay, I play it back Now it goes to the end And I realize that you know, it doesn't match perfectly at the end frame. So what I do I adjust it At the end frame I don't care about what happens in between I simply adjust those points a little bit And they will get interpolated in between those two keyframes I have just two keyframes one at the beginning one at the end And you see and those points can be used as the corners of the image that I will place Here and of course in some some some more complicated scenarios I will needs to use the camera tracking 3d tracking. So in in in such case, I would of course use the Blender Blender camera tracking. So this is the case where I used camera tracking Because here in the original shot We have The change in perspective and so on. So none of the tools Would be None of the tools buts blenders camera tracking would be good enough to Compensate for for the perspective shift. So This was the way that I used to remove This object from here. In fact in this case I used I used all three systems some of the points I tracked using just a built-in after effects tracker Some of the things I tracked using mocha. So for example to have this shape This one. I knew that I will want to I would want to put This one in front of everything. So for this I used mocha and I simply draw the shape and tracked it and exported it and imported it back into after effects, but to recreate the This area the the okay floor. Let's call it floor to recreate the floor I used blenders blenders camera tracking so In fact, this is like That would be all in fact And just to just to sum up it's like We are talking about Pax shots. We are talking about creating pax shots for tv commercials and Well, it is important to spend to sometimes to spend more time at the beginning of the process to To spend less time at the end of the process because at the end of the process when you are really good prepared You will not be surprised and By the client who is simply Telling you okay, please change this please change that you are prepared for all of this and you have to anticipate the client's Needs in the future and it's good to know what the client would need In advance so Well, that's all. Thank you and I'm open to questions I was just curious about the the mask you used for the background. Was that just a photoshop image or something No, it was What I did I did it inside after effects also but using the techniques exactly the same technique you would use in photoshop So I simply cloned the stuff and so on You mean when I removed the object, right? So so what was in the background? Yeah, so for this I simply took Some I took like the first frame. I took the last frame. I combined them together So I created some image that I can move around and then I tracked it in Behind this table So It was it was just it I used just a single image single image that You know simply is moving Then another question if with that pack shot if they had asked you to Put it down. Yeah, could you have changed the lighting? No Really, it's that that's why this was the first moment when I simply said no It won't work. It simply won't work. How can I change the lighting? I cannot change the lighting. This is I am dealing with the pixels. I am dealing just with an image not with the object that I have any control over so That's why I simply said no Please let me use another shot Okay, this might sound like a redundant question, but right when you hit that That spot when they asked you to lay it down Yeah, didn't cross your mind to rebuild the entire scene in 3d and then yes, of course Yes, of course it did but it would like take Take some time and I would need to ask for more money and they don't like it Yeah, so, you know, so so I just gave another Option so I said, okay, you have shot This version and this version Let us simply use this other version if it's okay for you. I can deal with not charging you more So they yeah, so it was Like this, but of but of course it came to to to to my mind. Yeah, maybe it's simply Easier and better to recreate everything in 3d. Yeah Also, if I can have one really short one Talking about production planning and setting up things up early in order to avoid any Impossible changes on the long run Wouldn't it be better to have a multiple layer green screenshot with isolated elements in order to Cheat them out as sometimes it would be better, but sometimes he In my position, I don't have the power to you know To do anything about it. I am given the shots. I am post production. So, you know This is what I deal with and I don't have anything anything else if they didn't ask me to go On set and like assist them Well Then it's like I can only say okay, you give me this so you can get this this and this but this one Impossible if I were there, maybe But Hi, I know you've been talking more about compositing and handling the client but You know coming to the actual rendering or creating of the pack shot that was really beautiful and Nice and you're doing it in cycles. Are you not? Yes. Yes, how do you like, you know, because it's an expensive Time-wise renderer. How do you? Manage that how do you plan for that? I got three seconds. How long will it take so that it looks really nice No noise beautiful charts Sorry, so maybe I should Tailor this presentation a little bit differently to answer such questions. Sorry that I didn't do this. Okay, just but well I try to avoid things that are That like causes yeah cause the noise so Well as for the lighting I don't use mesh lights. I use the regular lights Whenever I can I use just a sun lamp Which is pretty you know Pretty simple and I use compositing And then the bounces when you when you have the the bounces for example Cycles is is is great Because you have the bounced light, but this is what causes the The most noise whenever you can replace Indirect light by some kind of direct light do it Okay, so yeah, this is Yeah, just fake it. I mean, yeah Those are just just just some some things that come to my mind the things that I am thinking of when I am creating things You know, so yeah, you just rigged the light You avoid all the problems. Yes. Yes. Yes. I try to I try to do I try to do it this way because you know when Okay, when you want to render just a single image, it's it's not a problem You can you can wait to an hour or two no problem But an hour or two times 75 or or I don't 100 frames well Okay, of course Well, normally when you work in a studio, you have more computers You'll have the render farm or something like that. But anyway, it's a Also, do you render out all the stuff in passes so that whenever somebody says change the color a little bit? Yes, I render. Uh, I try to whenever I can whenever I have the time I try to render to passes I render to multi-layer EXR This is one thing and sometimes even I separate the lights Because when you illuminate the scene with one light source Then illuminate with the second light source and then in compositing when you add those images together you get We are working in linear space. So when you add those images together You get exactly the same result as you had if you had those slides And you have better control because you have two light sources and you can for example tone down one of the lights or you know I think this technique was explained by Bartek probably two years ago At exactly that place so you can just return to conference materials and see it So to avoid complaints by the client, it's probably better to Have your pack shots made in 3d and then eventually Combined with real footage if there is one Is it right? I didn't Exactly get the question if So it's it's probably better to have your pack shots none in 3d the product images and then eventually combine it with real footage like some background footage and stuff like this like with in In this verding advertisement done to have your pack shots Have your pack shots in the real footage and there's nothing you can do with them Like on the example, it's always it's always better to have the clean plate that is really a clean plate Clean means clean without the pack, of course, right? Yeah It's better But I don't know if I answered your question maybe so Now I got maybe a stupid question But how do you get the tracking data from blender to after effects? I use blender to after effects exporter, which is built in blender And I wrote it Uh, thank you This is when you uh, it's like you simply select your objects Okay, and go to when you enable the add-on after effects exporter you go to file export after effects And g j sx file is being created and then in after effects you simply run this j sx Uh script and you have the null objects and so on of course you you you you cannot Import geometry Or something like that, but you have the placeholders you have the camera in after effects and you have the null objects That are placeholders for everything that you exported Okay, cool. Thank you. Yeah, so and it's uh It's been in after effects since version 2.61 It's a long time. Yeah Anybody else? Okay, so thank you a lot. Oh, no, there is one question you raise your hand Okay I noticed that on the videos that you're using, um, you were Showing a little bit older after effects version. I think it's not oh, yeah, right? Is it? Yes. It's not cc Because um, you also just mentioned the the horrible built-in tracker for from after effects Yes, and and this is my experience from this particular version and I know that in cc. It works much better. I know I know Okay, the old trigger is still in there, but there's also that new camera tracking module. Yes, I know which also works a lot better so maybe But sometimes it's not you know, it's like I tried it once or twice. I don't know What I like about camera tracking in after effects is that it's a Single button solution. So we simply click the button and you're done but What I like in blenders Camera solving is that I have more control when you have a really easy shot You wouldn't want to go out from after effects But if you have something more complicated Well after effects wouldn't handle this It would be better to go to blender and simply adjust everything, you know It takes time to adjust the things to adjust the tracking points to and so on but you have the control over it so simple stuff After effects complex stuff blender. Exactly. I've also got one more comment in that in that pack shot that you showed us You had an uh, a slight sideways camera motion yes, and um And in that case you you spent a lot of time and effort to remove things that were just in the way and so on And I probably I'd normally use that approach as well But I've just got a little suggestion. Maybe um, maybe that shot could have worked as input for photometric reconstruction Because if you have a slight sideways moving image like that, you can actually convert change of camera angle Did you notice? But that's that's not a problem for photometric reconstruction You can just feed the the image sequence into like edges of photoscan okay, uh create um a complete 3d textured reconstruction of everything And I've actually experimented quite a lot with that And it might have worked for this case as well And so you might have gotten object separation and a full 3d scene where you could just have Removed any anything that might be uh, bottom. So let's talk afterwards. Yeah, right I would really actually why I was saying I was going to talk to you afterwards Okay, thank you Not now Thank you, Bartek