 Welcome to another episode of In The Studio. I'm Lynne Weaver and I will be hosting an exciting and timely topic today, The Right College For You. In The Studio is brought to you by Davis Media Access and broadcasts on Davis Community Television, that's Comcast Channel 15 and AT&T U-Verse, menu 99. You're also online at dctv.davismedia.org and on YouTube. Well this is the time of year when both high school seniors and their parents are beginning to agonize on how to make the right decisions when it comes to choosing a college. In order to have some of the questions answered, we have invited an expert into our show, Jennifer Borenstein. Jennifer, welcome to the show. Thank you. Jennifer is an independent college advisor and the owner of The Right College For You in Davis. She also writes a monthly column for the Davis Enterprise called The College Corner. A five-bitter graduate of UC Berkeley, she's a member of the Western Association for College Admission Counseling and the California Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators. She has had a very successful career in fiscal and education policy as well as in advising college students and advising also the public at large on what is the best fit in terms of the college. Jennifer lives in Davis with her husband, her two daughters and five pets. And would those be dogs, parrots, cats? And a horse. And a horse, okay. So you've got dogs, horses and cats? And a rabbit. And a guinea pig. And a guinea pig. Well that sounds more than fine. It's a farm. It's a farm. Welcome again. Thank you. Thank you very much for your time. Well you are the expert and so we're going to find out a lot more about how to choose the right college. The first thing that comes to mind, Jennifer, is what are the most common myths about choosing a college that you'd like to dispel? I realize there are many, many myths. But can you focus on some of the most recurrent themes that you hear? Yes. During your work. Definitely. There are two in particular that come up all the time when I meet with families and do workshops. And truthfully it breaks my heart. So I'm very happy to have a chance to dispel these myths. Good. The first one is many students and families have anxiety that their student or themselves won't be able to get into college. I need a 4.0. I haven't taken all the right classes. No college is going to want me. I've gotten a C and that is simply not true. There are a bunch of colleges out there that are super selective, highly selective. And the media and newspapers tends to focus on those colleges. So what happens is you hear all these stories about a 6% acceptance rate at Stanford. Or people not getting into their college of choice even though they've done everything right. And that's really just a subset of these colleges. There are about 2300 colleges in the United States alone. And so the majority of them are not those super selective. In fact, about half of the colleges out there have an acceptance rate of about 30%. So you have a third of a chance with those schools. Yes. And then according to the National Association for College Admissions Counseling, NACAC, the average acceptance rate at colleges is 64%. So close to two thirds of students who apply can get in. And that's just an average. There's even colleges that have a higher acceptance rate. In our area, those colleges are Sonoma State, University of Nevada at Reno, University of Oregon, the Ducks. So my message to students is you really have to continue looking beyond just that subset and consider other colleges that are going to have different acceptance rates. So you have to give it a try. There is a college out there for you. That's very good to know. And the other things that come to mind are what should be the priorities. Every student is different. But for example, should I write a list if I were a senior? Best school for what I want to study? Right. Best name recognition? Best chance of winning a scholarship or getting financial aid? Or best fun life? Those are all good. Best sports? Right. So how would you narrow down these priorities? What do you tell the... You almost need to know the student very well before you can advise him or her on what the priorities should be. How do you go about doing that? Everything you said is important. And every student is an individual. And their priorities are going to be different than someone else's. And so it is important. You're exactly right to get to know the students. So one of the first things that I do with a student is a personality assessment. I first meet with them and go over the process and answer questions. But really it's to try to get to know what's important to them. And I like to use an assessment tool called Holland Codes. Holland Codes. Yes. John Holland. He was a Johns Hopkins sociology professor. And he has this vocational theory that people choose careers. And in this case, I also like to say majors based on what their underlying values are. And so he breaks up individuals into six categories. Realistic, conventional, artistic, enterprising, investigative, and social. And then those are the things that drive you to a certain career. So if you're social, you tend to gravitate towards helping people or you like working with people. And so I do a little assessment and we figure out what the student is like. What are those categories for that student? And then we map that. I map that to majors and careers. And then I look for schools that have those majors and would lead to those careers. So that's one thing. But the second thing, and it's equally important, is all the characteristics of the school. As you mentioned, size is important. Is it a public or a private school? That's very important. How far away from home is it? What the weather is like? That is so critical for students in California. They haven't really lived many of them through a winter. The idea of snow, that can really make or break a first year if they're not ready for that. So we take into account that the student body and of course what the program is. So does it have the major you're interested in? Is it an accelerated program? Meaning that you might have opportunities to go more quickly to enter a... And that is a very interesting point that you make because it translates into some savings. Yes, most definitely. And we're going to talk a little more about financial aid and what are the opportunities of saving a little bit on college. Yes. And having scholarships. But those are very interesting. Now, a question also, another question that comes to mind is, do you see a lot of students who come to you, will leave out the parents for the moment, will come to you and say, I know exactly what I want to study and I know exactly what I want to go. And how do you react to that? You know, I have an open mind. Yes. I have met all different kinds of students and I really like working with every type. Yes. I do have many and truthfully, many of them, by the time we're done working together, have changed what they want to do. Really? Yes. Because think about, they are still growing and having experiences maturing, developing, figuring out where their strengths are. So many times if they have a passion, it was because they possibly had a teacher that was fantastic in that subject, but they haven't necessarily tried other things yet. So more often than not, I would say from my experience that when someone has that in mind, we definitely put schools on their list to meet those needs, but we make sure that we don't just stay too focused on that. And so I try to have other options for them. I'd say in general these days, most students come to me knowing what they want to major in, in some sort of broad brushstroke, sciences, math, literature, but they may not know exactly where they want that to take them. And so that's okay. Interesting. And that's actually an exciting thing. Yes. The uncertainty of it can feel overwhelming and many times students feel a little bit of apprehension if they're applying to college without a major. And I try to tell them that's okay. You don't need to know exactly what you want to do. In fact, colleges are very happy to take someone who's open to many different things and help guide them. Yes. The criterias have evolved and changed from admissions in colleges. I think that a few years ago, well maybe a couple of decades ago, there were colleges that only looked at academic excellence. But now that is changing. I think they want more well-rounded students who can also function, make decisions. Yes. I'm not saying that the ones who have very high academic score can't do that. But there's a difference. There's an evolution in criteria. There is. There has been a realization that the admissions process needs to take into account more factors than just kind of numbers and grades. That's right. And so the buzzword in many places is kind of a holistic review or a comprehensive review. Yes. Meaning looking at more than just grades and test scores. And for many students that's beneficial because really where their strengths are, aren't always going to be in their transcript or with test taking. The test taking. Exactly. So I'm grateful that there is that recognition. But unfortunately, or fortunately for some, grades are still the main driving factor in whether or not a candidate is going to be accepted. Yes. And we're going to talk about this in particular. One of the myths at least that I have researched this is that SATs and APs scores are paramount. Now, is this true? Or is it also true that consistent good grades in high school are just as important or are another factor in the decision making as the SAT? Could you comment on that? Yes, Lynn. I'm glad you bring that up. So when a college looks at a candidate, truly the most important part of their application or their file is their transcript. Meaning the courses that they've taken and the grades that they've received. If you look at a lot of data, generally admissions counselors at colleges will say that 80% of their decision is based on the courses in college prep class and the grades. And perhaps sorry for interrupting. And perhaps one of the type of courses that they've taken. That's exactly right. In college prep courses. Yes. So what they like to say is that they want to see students challenge themselves over time. Show increasing rigor in the classes, the class progression. I see, yes. So in your areas of strength, if you're a math person, get all the way up there to, you know, AP calculus if you can. Yes. That doesn't mean you have to take APs in every class. Of course that would be lovely. But really you want to have a life and have your sanity and whatnot. So you try to challenge yourself in your areas of interest to show that you can handle it because that's one of the best indicators for success in college. Very interesting. And of course APs are also expensive for the parents. They most definitely are. And sometimes the controversy can be that you are evaluated in the context of your school. So if you're at a high school that has a lot of APs and you don't take a lot of advanced placement APs classes, you don't look as strong as a candidate compared to others who take more. Yes. But getting back to your point about how does it compare SATs with the grades. So definitely the grades are the most important. Again, because that's going to show how you handle yourself over time. The tests, the SAT, the ACT, that's a snapshot picture. You could have had a bad breakfast that morning or a car alarm could have gone off. Yes. So there is recognition that they are less important. That being said, college admissions counselors at colleges will rate that about 50% in terms of importance and how they evaluate students. So it still carries weight. The one thing that I'll say, and this is such a topic that I have angst about because I don't like taking tests. And I hate telling students to have to take tests. No do I. No do I. And really I feel like the whole test taking industry, and I hope I'm not offending anybody, can be revamped and probably should be. Yes. But what's happening is there's a recognition that testing isn't everything. And many more schools these days are becoming test optional. So that students don't even have to submit test scores in order to be evaluated and considered for the school. And so schools like Lewis and Clark in Oregon, American in Washington, D.C., Pitzer down south and Claremont, you don't have to take the tests. Well, that's very nice to know. It's very useful information for those students who are averse to testing and that is great. Let's go on to a very important topic here. And what about students with learning disabilities? How do you advise them? It depends on the learning. Yes. And it is such an important thing for students in that situation to know that they have options. There are many options just because you may have a challenge doesn't mean college isn't one of the choices that you can have. No, of course not. So what I tell students is it's different your world in high school to college. In high school, students are covered under the IDEA, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. And oftentimes they'll have a plan, an individualized education plan that gives them services. And they have a right to those services under that law. When you get to college, it's different. It's a different law that comes into play. It's the titles two and three of the ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act and also section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. And those then what happens is that the accommodations that these students might need, they're not necessarily guaranteed and so students have to seek them out. They have to disclose what type of learning challenge they have, provide medical documentation in order to get those services. So it's almost like the whole process has to kind of happen again. Now some students may or may not feel comfortable with that. So a good idea for those students is to get involved in planning while they're in high school for that transition. And then the three critical places where they need to make some decisions are testing. Do they want to seek accommodations for testing? And those are available. You need to submit documentation to the SAT or the ACT. And usually the criteria is that it needs to be a recent diagnosis and it needs to meet certain standards. And I have many students that we've done that with and you can get extra time or perhaps you need Braille or wheelchair accessibility. Colleges don't see if you have those accommodations. So I really work with students to get those if they feel they need those. So that's one area. The second area is in the college selection process. And this is really where it becomes most important. Students need to figure the right fit out for them. And there's another criteria. It's what services they can get. And colleges will have either kind of what's called a structured program, which means they have a very high level of service. Trained staff, coaching, time management. That oftentimes you'll pay extra for. University of Arizona has the Salt Center. University of Denver has a lot of that. So if a student has quite a bit of needs, that might be the best fit. Then there's kind of a medium step to that, which is the coordinated programs. They have some staff that are trained. Not a lot of those extra services. The UCs are like that. And then there's a basic level of service, which doesn't really provide a lot. It meets the bare minimum legally. And schools like a University of Oregon would have something like that. So it's really important for a student to figure out what they're going to need to be successful. And so we can actually outreach and talk with those student disability centers and figure out what they need. And this is a whole area which is so important. And that's where your skills and expertise come into play. I've been very happy to see students successfully launch in it. Yes. Yes. This is wonderful. And of course on your website, we are going to talk about your website. Perhaps we're going to display your website. I noticed there are various links to resources. And actually, I like your website very much. Oh, thank you. And links to resources. And perhaps there is a link. There is. And there's the books that I would recommend to read about that as well for families. Perfect. It's perfect. Now, we've talked about colleges in general. Let's talk a little bit about what would be the best route in terms of, for example, financial consideration. What would parents worry about? I mean, it's ridiculously expensive to send children to college. This was my second myth that I must have forgotten. But yes, college is very expensive. And tuition has been increasing at a faster rate than the cost of living. And so families will see the price of college and get sticker shock. And so my main message is that price that you see, that is not necessarily the price you will pay. No. And that is the important point, and it's expensive. But if you drill down and you drill down, you can actually get scholarships or there's different ways. Financial aid. Exactly. Yes. So there are options for these parents. Definitely. And it is very, it's a great anxiety for parents on this. But what I wanted to, you probably heard about this very recent initiative, the President Obama put on the table. Yes. Exciting. Very exciting. And I think it's a wonderful idea. And that is perhaps you can say what it is. Yes. And it's near and dear to my heart because I'm also a community college professor. So I decided he has proposed to make the first two years at a community college free. Totally free. Totally free. 100% free. Yes. It looks like it's going to cost about 60 billion and take about 10 years and serve 9 million students. And what it turns out to be is about an average of $3800 per student. So that makes it so that they can go to community college and hopefully get along on their way to transfer to a four-year or get whatever technical career skills they need to go into the workforce. So it's very exciting. It's a wonderful, wonderful idea. And of course this would come from federal money but also from state money. Yes. The federal government means to do, I think three quarters of the funding and then states have to opt in for the rest. And it's a little bit interesting too because for example, California has some of the lowest average tuition at community college in the nation. In the nation, yes. Right. So every state is going to have a different incentive to participate based on what their current costs are. Yes. Yes. And of course there are marvelous community colleges and of course what they, as well as state universities, they give an opportunity to students to have more of a hand-on experience through internship, paid internships and other things like that. Yes. Which I think are very attractive at least to start and then if you want to become more involved in research studies or academic studies then you can go on to a university. Yes. Two things that I've noticed with my students in my class and I teach the UC transferable economics class that's interesting. Yeah. And I love economics. One is that some of these students may have peaked later in life and their grades and their transcripts weren't ready necessarily. Yes. And so this is a wonderful route for them. It is. And then the second thing I notice is that it's a low-cost option. It's a low-cost option. So it's a nice thing for them as well. And then if you, in addition to that, then you qualify for financial aid. Yes. And then gets very appealing. There is also a program and I was reading about this recently called Cash for College in California. Yes. Could you talk a little bit about that? Yes. Because the way I read it is basically that the state gives out free money to just about everybody and I don't think that's true. Cash for College workshops are through the California Student Aid Commission, CSAC. Yes. And they're free. And so they help you fill out financial aid forms and access financial aid. I see. So they basically do a little bit what you do. Yes. In terms of counseling and advising. But actually with the computers so that the people are filling out the forms and submitting it there because oftentimes that's the obstacle is people feel overwhelmed by the forms. It is. And the numbers they need to put in so if they have someone walk them through it then it's turned in and that's your ticket to then being eligible for aid. And this is wonderful because it's a free service. It is. And so you can look on the CSAC website. And a lot of people don't know about it. It's a wonderful thing. And now is the time. They're happening right now. Now is the time. So if you want to avail yourself to this Cash for College service what would you have to do? You sign up online. Online. And you sign up at the CSAC website. And just to also say the FAFSA which is the Free Application for Federal Student Aid that's available now. So seniors who are applying to college now now is the time to fill that out. And some families can do that on their own and they don't need to attend the workshop. It takes about 30 minutes and there's some great videos to watch about how to do it. Essentially it's tax information and size of family. It's not that onerous but once that's submitted to families to do it sooner rather than later that's how then the federal government will present you with financial aid options. Either grants if you qualify low income or middle income. Or loans which are some of the best deals around. That's a whole other topic we could get into if you want. It's another topic. Yes. Well loans have improved especially in terms of the percentage. But that's a completely different. Topic for another day. And actually Jennifer it would be very nice in addition to your website and if you'd like to say your website we will display here it is. But if you could say it as well. Yes. It's www.therightcollegeforyou.org and I have my articles on there which have a lot of information and resource list as well. So if you want to look into anything in more detail all those links are there. And also you can contact Jennifer of course Yes. through the website. Yes. And of course I encourage you also if you get the enterprise there is a monthly column and you can search under college corner that's what I did and college corner. Yes. Exactly. And there are a lot of articles there that are very interesting. Thank you. And this is particularly important for parents because I remember when my children were thinking of college and they were seniors in high school they didn't really want to do anything. Some of them even write in the essays and yet they were extremely good students but it is a very difficult time of their lives where they are really afraid of the change and the unknown. So I think if the parents are very knowledgeable they can help these students very much. Yes. It's unfortunately a complicated process. It is. But it is one that is worthwhile to go through college can make the difference for students if that's the path they want to be on. Yes. And this is where you and professional like you can give a lot of peace of mind to the parents. I sure hope so. And that's a wonderful thing. We're almost out of time. It went very quickly. It did. If you'd like to add just a very, you know, one 10 second afterthought please do so now before we go. Thank you. It would just be to echo a little bit of what we were saying before and that is that unfortunately the process isn't perfect but that there really is a right college out there for everyone and even if it isn't a four-year college it can be a gap year program or vocational school. There are options after high school and so really to not feel overwhelmed and just try to take that next step and see what the future holds and not get bogged down in too much anxiety and competition. Well that's wonderful and also we haven't talked about there's always the option of transferring. Yes. You are very, very unhappy with your choice. Exactly. And that does happen. And that does happen. Yes. Again, thank you so much for coming on our show. Jennifer Borenstein. Yes. And I wish you all the luck in the world and please stay in touch within the studio. We'll do. And thank you all of you for watching. You've been watching in the studio. I'm Lynn Weaver. If you'd like to see this program again you can go to dctv.davismedia.org and also on YouTube from all of us here at Davis Media Access. Thank you and see you next time.