 Hi everyone, my name is Chris Hagler and I am one of the leaders of the ESG practice at EY. We have about 1500 people globally that all we do is focus on ESG issues on opportunities, risks, creating strategies and in particular we do a lot of work around understanding metrics and how companies can best share their story and measure the progress that they are making on whatever ESG issues they are focused on. I work primarily with management teams so my job is usually to work with a cross-functional group of people. When we are talking about diversity inclusion and social justice, usually there is somebody from the sustainability or the ESG group as well as people from the diversity and inclusion group. And very often we are also working with people responsible for disclosures in the finance department or that. That's my role. Cheatham also works with us here at EY. She has a completely different role though so we thought it would be fun to have two different perspectives as we talk about these important issues today. Cheatham, can you talk about your role? Absolutely. I'm really happy to be joining Chris. As she mentioned, I'm Cheatham Octam. I should also note my neighbor who never ever ever makes noise 30 seconds ago started some massive drilling project so I apologize in advance. I mean it never fails, right? That's one thing we've learned. My role is a bit different than Chris's as she mentioned. I serve as EY's regional leader for the Center for Board Matters and in my role I work closely with boards and CEOs so I work directly with them to bring them insights on emerging governance issues and to give a bit more context to what that means. Most of my time is spent in conversation with corporate directors. So whether presenting on specific topics during formal board and committee sessions or designing and facilitating panels at multi-company director events or onboarding new directors or being a thought partner to individual directors. That's really where I spend my time in addition to overseeing some of our research as well. Prior to joining EY for several years I ran an education program for audit committee chairs of Fortune 500 companies. So I've been working with boards long enough to see some really interesting changes that have taken place and are underway and we'll talk about a few of those today with Chris. So thanks Chris for letting me introduce myself. Awesome. And guys I'll tell you I rely on and cheat them all the time. In terms of working with management it's really important to understand what are boards asking for what are they going to be expecting. And so it's really fantastic to have this perspective. So our approach for today is we have sort of three buckets of information we want to share with you. We hope that you will ask questions in the chat. I think it's a little hard to ask questions any other place for now. But if you could ask questions in the chat feel free to do it along the way. We're also going to save some time at the end after we go through this so please feel free to keep it as interactive as possible. Our approach today is to give you a little bit of background what we're seeing in the marketplace and then go specifically to so that's sort of a bigger picture then talk specifically about what we are seeing boards ask for what we think they expect of the management team. And then we'll come back and say OK well if this is what boards are expecting of the management team how our management teams reacting and then how are they creating metrics to be able to demonstrate the progress. So that's our approach sort of background board expectations and management response. So with that I'm going to just flip through a couple of slides here to give you some background. First of all starting with that this idea of diversity and inclusion is nothing new to organizations. They have absolutely been measuring this for years been focusing on it for years. And I know you've seen some of these statistics. You know 87 percent of the organizations with high DNI report that they have better decision makers that they have people who are able to times more likely to exceed expectations. They specifically identify that they can have improved market share when they have a successful diverse inclusive culture and people in their organization and even more interesting 70 percent more likely to have success in a new market. I really like that one today too because I kind of feel like everything feels like a new market right now after 2020 is just like all bets are often everything's new. So you know the idea that a diverse workforce and you know really contributes to more success in new market I think is super exciting. But to me that just these stats alone should be enough. But it hasn't been because companies have known this for a long time and there hasn't been enough progress. But the other thing that's interesting this the data on the right is actually from our own EY research. So we survey our own employees every two years and we ask them about engagement inclusiveness and other things. And we found within our own population our employees that that are of diverse nature and feel like they are included in our organization have seven percent higher retention the people the groups that they work with have higher revenue growth and higher gross margin. So really from a business perspective I think it's it's should be clear. But then we're seeing it in the streets every day. I'm not both based in Atlanta but you're seeing it across the country where these issues that companies think they have been dealing with for years somehow isn't doing enough because there's still significant inequities in the marketplace. There are still significant systemic challenges for people of color and companies are more and more expected to take a stand as that weight racial wealth gap divide continues with both black people and Latinx families individuals and communities. The companies the business case is already there they've been working on it. It's still not good enough not making enough of a difference to really drive change. And then we also see interestingly enough investors are figuring this out. It's not surprising that it's State Street of course State Street is the famous for their their their little girl the statue of the defiant girl on Wall Street focusing on gender diversity. But they specifically came out in August and said they expect organizations in their investment portfolio to do a significantly better job articulating what role diversity plays in their human capital practices. What goals do they have around diversity and how do those goals contribute to their overall strategy and how are they managing them. Then they are specifically asking for measures of diversity at the board level and at the employee level. And they're talking about race ethnicity gender by the different levels so they're not just you know saying you know just tell me you know make sure you have at least one diverse board member but they're really looking at a much broader definition of the metrics that they're looking for. They also expect the board itself to be diverse and have a good understanding of what these issues mean. So and if you're if you're on this call you probably have been working in the ESG space, we have absolutely been seeing that they that that investors expect boards to be smart on these issues to not to know what the metrics mean and to understand whether or not the strategy is strong enough to make a difference. We provide oversight. So this is just what we're seeing from one investor State Street. And in addition, and so companies are responding. Right so it's not just State Street of course it's also Larry think with his, you know letters from black rock and things, but companies really are responding. First of all, we see them upping their game as it relates to diversity and inclusion so on their own internal processes we see all most so many organizations rethinking, are we really doing enough, are we sure that we have definitely come to a place where we are not accidentally doing something or that we've looked at all our processes and we'll talk a little bit more about that later. But we've also seen in this case here on on the right, I think it doesn't do me any good to point to my slides right does it. The companies making huge commitments and in this example here 58 companies have pledged more than $3.3 billion towards social justice organizations and issues. Bank of America a billion city 1.15 billion I do love how the big banks all out do themselves. I think we should see JP Morgan Chase right coming in one bigger than what city did. And so they can continue to one up each other which but I love that right. And then we even we see organizations even like the, the cell. Hello. Yeah, hey Chris what happened there all of a sudden you disappeared. Did I disappear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're so you were talking about the big banks kind of coming in and starting to weigh in perfect. Perfect. Okay. And then, and then the opportunity to make my, my smart, smart Alec remark about Jamie diamond being a competitive person. Yeah, absolutely. That's why I want to see that number a bigger number right coming out of JP Morgan Chase. Oh God Chris. What happened. Sorry. I'm going to go ahead and fess up here. Apparently there's a button where I can take you out of the stream. I think I accidentally clicked on that. So I'm sorry. You, you're, you're the one that muted me. Why, why would anybody give me that power? I don't know. Sorry about that. I'm not touching anything. Luke, take it away from her. Sorry. Well, so, so what I think is exciting is that it's not just the big banks that are making big investments right, although you do see huge sums of money like Bank of America's $2 billion equality progress bond, or the Celtics the Celtics the basketball community right committing $25 million to racial justice so it's really great to see all these organizations responding. And it's a darn good thing, because the regulators are going to expect them to do something about it and to report. And if you haven't seen it yet the SEC did come out with a new rule just a couple of weeks ago well they came out with it for a while and then they had their, the discussion period that they always do but it has been accepted. And they require registrants to disclose their human capital resources, if they're material. It's kind of hard to believe that any organization is going to say that human capital is not material. And if so I know I don't want to work there. And clearly, they're, they're giving, they're leaving at principles based on that time you specifically what to report but they do expect you to do an assessment, understand how diversity inclusion are material for your organization, and then to disclose that, and how you are managing it. So there's where we are we said, we know it's a big deal. It's gotten even bigger this year with external pressures companies are responding investors are requiring it the SEC wants more information. So, let's talk about an art I see your email and I will give you some of those. Let's talk about what the boards are asking for right now. I'm hoping that Chris is going to be more generous than I was and not boot me off the call. I don't know how. All right, we're going to get into the metrics Chris will dive into some of those as we go along, but let's just first spend a couple moments getting a sense of the boards perspective here. So before we wanted to position this was give you a sense of what's happening, the kinds of discussions that are happening within the boardroom, and then we'll shift and talk about how boards are changing their expectations of management. So moving to on that SEC rule that that came out that Chris mentioned, it's worth noting typically we think of changes and requirements like this one really for ultimately driving change but in this case, the SEC is really moving along with as Chris referenced earlier investors are really pushing hard in terms of their agenda, the agenda around ESG, including diversity and inclusion. So let me build a little bit on what Chris has talked about to this point. There's a lot of let me state out right here that there's a lot of variation that is taking place among boards in terms of their level of engagement where they are on this. I don't want us to be all assuming that everybody's in the same place. They're not. This is a journey for boards and no two boards are going to be alike. For example, until recently, anytime the topic of culture or talent or diversity came up. Most directors would say well our job is to hire the CEO. It's the CEO's job to oversee talent and human capital and DNA and take care of all that other stuff. It's changed a lot in the last six months, but it's still a journey. Chris, I'm getting some feedback. Are you hearing it to are you hearing me okay. I hear you just fine. All right. Okay. Oh, there we go. Thank you that helps that helps. I didn't know if it was the voices in my head or if there was true feedback going on there. What's happened is in the last six months there really has been a big shift. I mean, because I facilitated a conversation back in December with a room full of directors. And that exact question of well is it really how does the board engage came up and and the answer from 75% of those around the table was very much well that's the CEO's job and we hire the CEO. And I look forward to now and that conversation looks very different and I think that's that's noteworthy because that's a real change and that's a rapid change and boards don't usually shift that quickly. The other thing too is at our Center for board matters of course we do a fair amount of research. We did a risk based survey of directors and CEOs and this was at the end of last year. The top item so when we asked about top risks to the business the top item on the CEO agenda was the risk, the talent risk so that was the one that they were most concerned about. But directors actually placed that at number four wasn't a big gap in terms of percentages they all saw this as an important risk, but it was interesting that you know CEOs put it at number one and directors put it at number four. And if we were to do that survey today that gap would be would be closing and you'd see something much more similar. There's also the reality that boards are frankly being directors are grappling with what's being asked of them because typically they have not in the past gotten this far deep into the operations of a company since their role is oversight so they're really trying to figure out what does this mean, how does this. What should they be doing. So for example, on the sec change. You know you would think it would be pretty straightforward in some ways well we've gotten a slew of calls from directors who are reaching out saying well what does this mean for us from a board perspective how should we be thinking about it. Because the definitions are so broad and materiality is of course one critical criteria but it's, it's, it doesn't define everything. The other thing that's happened is the recent proxy season in 2020 so that wrapped up sort of around the end of May with the last remaining meetings that were left very eye opening for a lot of directors because investors, you know, think about what happened this year. So if the city was very much top of mind for boards, then coven hit sort of we all pause the world went sideways, and directors thought that, you know, other issues would be rising to the four. And then black lives matter hit and social justice movement as Chris alluded to earlier, really brought awareness in a way that's different from, you know, past discussions around this. The proxy season where these issues were brought up by investors again really brought a focus to directors, particularly around DNI, and there are some takeaways we've been sharing with directors from the proxy season. What I've shared is that directors really need to understand that how a company treats its employees in the wake of coven could affect the brand value for years to come and of course that also means if you're losing all your women and minority employees that's going to be a problem. They're for heightened scrutiny of commitments to DNI, you know, Chris you just laid out a lot of investment that's being made there a lot of public statements that have been made by CEOs and investors have already signaled that they're going to be tracking those and following up. And then the other piece here that we've we've observed as a takeaway is, it's important to provide data to demonstrate progress and accountability around stated commitments and really also describe the allocation of board level oversight responsibilities. Now on the slide here we've we've listed some of the areas that boards are considering or they're acting on. I won't go through all of these we've touched on these through the conversation. But a couple of these I want to draw your attention to if you kind of go down to the fourth bullet point there, creating accountability by having DNI measurements included in the CEO compensation. This is a big area of debate. Right now at the last telling 78 out of 3000 companies have paid linkages for their CEO to specific DNI metrics. So this is this is not something that's mainstream at all. And interestingly though, a more recent survey showed that more than half of directors said that DNI should be part of an of the CEO's incentive plan. Now I'll emphasize recent because I promise you if this had been, you know, back in December when we were having those other conversations, that wasn't part of the conversation. Chris, did you want to, did you want to share something? Yeah. Well, no, I was just going to ask you that. So, I mean, this is literally between December and say what job July or August that it's changed. Yeah, July I think is when the survey was yep. Yeah. Now, I should also say, I didn't see previous surveys that kind of got to that level of asking the question so it, it could have been that more directors sort of vaguely thought about it but let's think about that reality again a very small percentage although some big directors like Microsoft do incorporate DNI metrics into CEO compensation but the typical argument has been well wait a minute. The CEO is rewarded for long term performance of the company and the growth of the bottom line. So if the quantity is important to company growth, the CEO is going to address it and that'll be automatically sort of baked in and there's now the recognition that, you know, that isn't playing out the way that a lot of people had assumed therefore how do we make this more explicit and more concrete. Now, I won't get into compensation details because that's that's a whole other level, but there are different ways that you can build things into CEO compensation and the compensation consultants now are thinking about what do they do how do they do it, and thinking through some of this because they're sort of the discretionary part of their compensation where it's up to the board's discretion which can be based on some specific metrics and then there's how the share price performs. But again the whole the bigger point here is DNI metrics are now getting included in the conversation in ways that they never were before. Yeah, I don't remember if I told you that I'm working with a client right now that EY provides assurance over a lot of their ESG metrics, and they've recently just added all their DNI metrics into the scope of the work, because they plan on incenting all of their division heads on the DNI metrics and of course so they want to make sure they're really good right before they put it into compensation which is why they hired us. But just, and this is a fortune, probably fortune 100 consumer products company. Well and when you mentioned that I was really impressed by that Chris because again it's unusual, I expect you know we see various trends kind of come and go through the boardroom and create shifts and changes. This ESG and DNI as has come in a rapid pace that's really even outpace cyber risk oversight which is sort of an analogy here and it's interesting. Let me run through a couple more quick things here on this slide. The other piece of it to one of the best ways that boards can ensure focus on something is to make sure that that topic is integrated into overall conversations about strategy and the business. So directors will say specifically, well, if it's important whenever we're talking about growth whenever we're talking about markets whenever we're talking about our talent pool, the board needs to start asking questions around DNI. And so that's a great way that they signal so they're having that conversation among themselves as they're as they're going through this. And then the last two here board composition you alluded to that Chris board composition and oversight allocation board composition right now. We talked to a lot of recruiters so those who do recruiting for board roles, and they have said that the number one kind of criteria that they're now being asked to focus on of course you have to have the core competencies and those kinds of things. But the number one request that they're getting is for diverse candidates. Because that's something that most boards will go to their own Rolodexes when they're trying to bring in new board members, but of course, most of us hang out with people that look like us and so when they're starting to reach beyond their own Rolodexes they're bringing in recruiters, and they're also signaling to recruiters that they're willing to shift some of the criteria right it's not that everybody coming in now has to be a CEO. If you're a divisional CEO and you're a minority candidate you're going to get a hearing in a way or or truly evaluated in a way that's different than in the past. So that's, that's important. Then the governance committee typically tends to get involved with oversight of these kinds of metrics and overseeing DNA and talent issues. So that's, that's typically where we'll see these conversations go. Because if we jump to the next slide I know folks are really wanting to get to the metrics I'm just going to touch on this real briefly because this will then tee up what we'll talk about in terms of the metrics themselves. So of course boards are asking themselves more questions which means they're going to ask management more and different types of questions. If they're going and digging deeper than they have in the past they are asking about the dashboards that they're getting presented with right typically if there's been an annual sort of read out if you will of the firm's diversity and the company's diversity efforts boards are now trying to dig deeper saying they want different types of metrics. And of course, if you start to think about the disclosure aspect that makes sense that that's going to drive even more sort of conversation about what is the board seeing. And by the way, it goes both ways. So in thinking about what metrics should be disclosed under the new rule. A great starting point is what does the board normally see what is the executive committee normally see. And then one thing that boards are looking at to is saying, well, wait a minute, what's getting disclosed now. So what is the company already disclosing and talking about, since these kinds of performance metrics versus pure financial metrics tend to be in different reports in different places. In many cases the board may not be looking at these disclosures may not be overseeing them the way the audit committee would oversee financial reporting so they want to know well what is it we're talking about how does that tell our story. Are we really tracking the right kinds of metrics. And then so for example, one thing that came up in a conversation we had actually just a couple days ago. Well, I guess, last week, we did a big session on ESG for audit committee chairs and as part of the conversation there there was sort of this idea of how we'll also future employees look at the metrics that are being disclosed. So if it's not just flexibility, which everybody expects will be a metric and will be, you know, widely disclosed and potential employees will use that to assess their potential employers. But what about things like training dollars spent per FTE. Right. How are you going to look at those. Something that maybe a traditional services firm might have had but not other types of firms so thinking about some of these and I've been again impressed by how seriously boards are focusing on these issues and asking questions in a way that they haven't before. So I'm going to actually I had some other things to talk about but I know Chris folks are really eager to get to some of the frameworks that you're going to talk about so let me pause here and I might chime in with some other things. Yeah, well, before I before I flip flip to to the next slide I think the first bullet point is really super interesting that they that the board wants to know what the management team's hearing from all the other stakeholders so it, you know that that they're not just focus on here's what we think it's important but they're they're interested to know what other stakeholders are asking for. How does how does that get communicated back does how does management communicate that back to the board. Yeah, so specifically boards are asking about employee what our employees saying and how our employees looking at this. Clearly, they're hearing from investors boards do engage with very large institutional investors at times more so than they do other types of stakeholders. So boards are really asking well how are employees thinking about DNI what are we assessing how do we see this. Typically, there's an executive of course a functional executive who will report out to the board. And what we're seeing are more ad hoc types of reports so instead of the annual, you know, kind of update to the board boards now saying well wait a second. Let's say at the next meeting we'd like to spend 20 minutes talking about the company's current efforts and what is our dashboard look like and of course as you can imagine it. As soon as the board put something on their agenda that starts a chain reaction, if you will, but even on crowded agendas boards are making room for this. Thanks, I appreciate that. Stay tuned because a cheating can continue to answer any questions specifically as it relates to the board but we're going to shift now to talk a little bit more about how companies are reacting. And, you know, the first thing more importantly than what they report or how they disclose is what they do. And you know, it's, I don't know, I work with a lot of companies they're like well we really want to improve our disclosures I'm like well you should improve your disclosures. And you're probably doing really good things now, but unless you're actually improving and continuing to improve your progress, your disclosures more disclosures aren't going to help. So, this is a chart actually we've got a white paper that we can can share with you all that came from the Center for board matters we've got a couple of them that might be interesting. And this just shares with you, of course the employee life cycle. Thinking starting with your perspective and your current employees, thinking about how do I attack attract and recruit them. How do we bring them on board and which ones do we hire. How do we manage performance. How do we develop and retain them and then how do we handle it actually when they are leaving and make sure that we continue to build workforce equity. So, this is just, this is a really nice example of an employee life cycle, and the different things that happen along the way. But I think most important and interesting to consider is, Okay, well, what does that mean about how I measure things along the way. So we, we call this that we did we stacked up these process metrics. So these are different metrics that you might consider measuring specifically as it relates to diversity and inclusion, and your HR processes right so this isn't necessarily social justice. But these are, to me, a really good example of you can't just say that final number that says well, 15% of our people at this level are people of color, or 30% are, excuse me, people of women or whatever diversity metrics you're looking at. So we're suggesting that you consider different metrics, all the way along the way of an employee cycle on boarding could be percent of unconscious bias training that's provided to new hires. You could have that same metric in your learning section or maintaining where you re rolled out to your entire organization. Examples might be number of employees participating in your employee resource group. Again, we've got that under onboarding because it's about how do you get people in active quickly and understanding what you're trying to accomplish from a cultural and belonging perspective. But also those things might fit along the way in different parts of your entire process. So one thing that strikes me just because of the analogous conversation boards have had for years about bringing in women right you have a large class of women that comes in and then over time you're sort of losing them in that life cycle. And I know that there's been research done that when you bring somebody in who may have a different perspective, it's not always easy for them to integrate. I would expect boards to start asking more questions about these kinds of things because they haven't necessarily done that in the past. But again, if you think about broader awareness, I would imagine trying to understand how are we supporting people so that as they're going through their their cycle, we're not losing people is going to be an important, an important element. You know, what one one thing that I would consider and I remember I read some stat and you probably you probably you probably told me this stat that when you have more than one person of a diverse background that they are significantly is that where I heard that from on boards at first it was okay get a woman in and then everybody realized the tokenism really didn't work that great so then it became very clear you have to have two or more women on boards to get the benefit of having that diverse perspective on the board. Which so I would expect that would be the same on other types of diversity. That would count. Okay, so, so this is our thought process on one is to look through the entire employee life cycle. Measure along the way, and then as you're looking at the progress whether these metrics are getting better or worse, then you know where then we can change some of our strategies where we can, you know, consider doing things to align with as we're seeing these metrics move along the way. I know for example on the rewards, very common to to find that gender pay gap is happening at different places along the process it's and very often actually at the hiring process is where that that's happening in some organizations but again thinking about the entire employee life cycle and what type of metrics. So now another way to think about metrics is along the impact pathway, and I'm going to stop a minute to thank Nick Jarman who's one of our colleagues who's been jumping in here on the chat. This is a colleague that that works with with me on a lot of social justice type of project so thank you Nick for helping on answering some of the chat questions. But we work a lot on setting social impact goals, helping organizations understand what type of impact they want to create, and then how they can go about doing that. The important thing about this is that you focus at the right place on this impact pathway. Okay, so I'm sure that you've seen this in one way shape or form the folks from the social return on investment world called this the theory of change you might have seen it there. A lot of not for profits have been using this the whole time, and you know thinking about what change are we creating. But what we've seen is too many companies start to think about impact and they don't look along the whole chain so I'm going to spend just a minute on this on this slide right here, or on the impact pathway. And at the end of the day, what an organization what you want to do is say what is the change that I want to create in the world what is the change that we are looking for. Today, as we go back to some of those initial slides that we talked about it is about achieving systemic change. It is about narrowing the wealth gap, particularly from the racial perspective. It is about creating equity across a number of all types of diversity whether it's gender or race or ethnicity or any other. So your your your sexual preference, all of these things that the impact is what change we want to create backing up. If you might look at what is the outcome for a particular group of people. So you say well we want to create racial equity or you know close the wealth gap well that's a pretty big, pretty big impact that you want to create a backing into outcome you can say okay well we want to close the wealth gap for people of color in midtown Atlanta. And that focus on that work in the healthcare industry, for example, so the outcome is is is a change for a group of people, working backwards would be the output, which are the things that you do, or the things that you do, and the input and activity are the resources that you put towards it, and the activities. So, so I kind of took you left to right, but let's go right to left on this example. So your input might be something like the number of employees were the number of diverse candidates so it's it might be the dollars towards something could be an input. And activity might be something like well the percent of unconscious bias training or the number of training opportunities. So these are the things that you do. The output could be something like the diversity representation, or it could be your eight an employee engagement number that comes from your surveys or something like that X% of our employees are more engaged. And the outcome, working more towards what is, how is their life changing they have a living wage the percentage of people that now have a living wage, or to your organization, the percent of people that have, you have that reduced absenteeism or better productivity, things like that. And then again the long term impact could be something like improved lifetime earnings, or a reduction in healthcare you know what they're there are a number of different ways that you could do this. What you might find is so many of our clients focus on the number on the output number. So they might focus on, you know, the number of people that we sometimes it a while on ourselves a little bit, we do a lot of skills based volunteering. So our input would be the hours of our super smart people that we have any why the activity could be that we are providing counseling to young people and helping them with their school work. But the mistake comes if you are counting your output as the number of people that we have help, you know, we've, we helped 15 people. So then the question is, what was the change that happened about it. So my goal here is to get you thinking about how can you have metrics all along the way of the impact pathway. Okay, how, when you are thinking about measuring your metrics. Yes, it's okay to say here's the billion dollars that we're putting towards it. But then what are those activities. What is the output but then most importantly what is the outcomes that will are changing because of that and how will that change things more broadly for the long run. And kind of bringing that back to the board level. That's where boards also tend to focus so they look much more at what is the overall outcome and impact of things the company is doing. And they think about that across everything right even cyber risk and things like that. So it's not just how much activity, but that's also how they think about the companies are why of their efforts if they're ultimately making the impact that they want. I'm Chris I'm aware that I think we're a couple minutes over so we probably need to wrap up soon. Oh, I'm so sorry. I thought we went till 245 anything else Luke or or any questions. Let me do two quick things. So first of all, we'll send you this white paper that gives you good perspective and thought process shifting. We can go till 245 I don't know where he's pulling the extra 15 minutes out of his hat but we got it now. Thanks Luke. Okay, well I wanted to. I did want to share this slide. I love this thought process here. Okay this thought process of shifting from and to from shareholder capitalism to stakeholder from, you know, listening to hearing and responding so listening is an activity. We're hearing and responding is clearly much more of an outcome so I love this comparison for for you to think about thinking about diversity equity and inclusion as a compliance issue versus a strategic opportunity. You know, the really love this perspective of to me it's it's not up here, you know, output to outcomes, but as you're trying to think through how do I shift to outcomes. I really like this perspective. I mean these these are are listed in the white paper. I also wanted to share that we have a podcast that we can you can get some more information from so this is it's called EY sustainability matters. We'd love to have you subscribe to our podcast. We also have this sustainable impact hub, which has all of our thought leadership and the Center for board matters which just really does fantastic research on what boards are thinking. And then I also just wanted to to share with you our own EY's commitment to anti racism and some of the things some I'll call them the tip of the iceberg things that EY is doing to support anti racism in the United States while we're doing the hard work internally to look through all of our processes and make sure that we have the right measurement in place as well to make sure that we are inadvertently doing the wrong thing. So, that is, those are the slides that we had, I'll flip back to maybe this one or this one and see if anybody has any questions, or any other ideas about or or areas where they would like to see some better metrics. Chris well folks are thinking about it one. Oh, somebody's asking for page 10 and 11. All right, here's page 10 leave that up for a little bit. So one thing that I did want to mention is in thinking about these metrics again looking at it from the board and their oversight perspective. ERM enterprise risk management is a big part of the board conversation. And what's also interesting is they're starting to we're seeing more questions around. Okay, if lack of diversity and talent inclusion is a risk. How do we start to bring that into our ERM and represent it appropriately within ERM for for the right conversations. I don't know that anyone's got the perfect answer right now but it's simply to say that that is part of the conversation that's going into is trying to integrate DNI into the existing conversations. And when the board, one of the things that's great about working with boards is a board can get a lot of change going in a company just by asking the right questions at the right time. And it seems like boards are really focusing on that. Maybe if you want to go back to the other page as well. I don't know which page you're on page 10 oh and 11 if you want to go back to 11 as well I think that's what. Takaki I hope I'm saying it right forgive me if I'm not. There we go. This is 10. So. So this is where you take a screenshot of it right. So any other questions for us. See by scrolling down to the chat. In here. So I know Chris and I have had a lot of fun. Helping helping clients think about. Oh, do you see disability being discussed at the board level. Not in the conversations that we're party to Tara. As you can imagine sort of the board because it's oversight they come in at a pretty high level. And I would imagine that a lot of this is included and incorporated into that diversity conversation. So it's not just diversity around race diversity around gender but also broader, you know what is diversity look like to bring in a number of perspectives. Yeah, we actually internally. This looks like a great question for you. You know, but I, I did want to, to share that at EY we actually have a whole approach on neurodiversity and have hired, I think upwards towards 5,000 people that have come from a, they're somewhere on the autism spectrum. And we have identified great ways so they can add value to our clients in the work that we do. And really focusing on that particular disability Tara, but not necessarily a huge variety at this point. Yeah, and a couple more questions came in. So, let me take Bonnie's question first and then I'll come back to Brenna's. So Bonnie, your question about the supply chain what's fascinating is ESG more the broader ESG conversations they're now very much becoming part of the supply chain conversation. And because of also what's happened this year with COVID and the concept of resiliency for enterprises boards are now asking a lot more questions about supply chain, going two or three levels deeper into supply chain more around the busness of it. So, do we have one of our second tier suppliers third tier suppliers look like, but we're starting to also then see the ESG conversation get embedded into supply chain both around sustainability as well as understanding. Wait a minute. If we are buying, we have the ability to ask questions so boards are starting to ask management. How are you thinking about supply chain in terms of ESG. Haven't heard as much about getting into DNI with supply chain but again this is an evolution. I think they're at different levels, and we would expect as you know Chris and other colleagues and those of you around the table here, start to do more that boards may be seeing more around that. Hey, Tina, let me jump in real quick there from working management's perspective. We're doing a tremendous amount of work there and embody specifically looking at the complexity in the southern hemisphere and and products coming from there. So, we're seeing our more forward looking clients absolutely doing the analysis to identify the hotspots for for it's usually not called social justice right outside of the US it's usually human rights. So, looking around child labor and slave labor and a number of other things we are doing a tremendous amount of work mostly for our more leading ESG clients where we're doing that work but so management is definitely thinking about it in the leading company so I expect that the boards will start to think about it as well. That's where it's fun that you get the two different perspectives right Chris because we're not seeing as much from the board side so it's good to know management is focusing on those. I did want to just just respond to Brenna as well before we before we wrap up here the most common pitfall. I've spent so much of my career on this I used to actually help management teams with preparing for board board presentations before I shifted to more governance type of work. The most common pitfall when you're looking at board level metrics is to get too detailed, just like Chris outline there, you know, giving a list of activities boards get kind of frustrated with that because they know that management's got it and understands the outcome and then the impact that they're looking for. I think of this much more simplistically as the what the so what and the now what boards trust that management's going to take care of the what they're more interested in the so what and then the now what in terms of the company perspective. The other thing that I was saying more broadly is the, and this is the number one thing that we hear from boards is when they are having the conversation around this they don't want to be looking at a bunch of slides so making sure information is incorporated in their pre reading. So that in the room it's an actual discussion. I know that sounds really basic and I'm sure everybody does it, but it's still surprising to me how many times I hear that from boards in terms of the feedback that they're giving their management teams. Deal that the what this so what and then now what I love that. Do I have to credit my favorite framework. Now I think somebody else came up with that framework it's been around for a while my all the moderates to EB we used to use that so I think I think it's now common. What is that thing called if it's not copyrighted it's sort of common common right but common usage. I like it better so again don't tell anybody because EY uses now next and beyond, which I kind of like that too but it's not as good as what so what now what. Well they're slightly different for you know I'm basically a nerd so it's it's a slightly different frameworks but I like the you know what so what and now what because it sort of tease up the appropriate focus I think for folks well we probably should wrap it up at this point. Let me let me hand it off to you to wrap up. Oh and I see Kelly is on the moderation panel so Kelly I'm guessing that that you are moderating the next the next session so glad to see you. Kelly is a colleague. And, and Phil I'm afraid we aren't going to get to your question but I, if you can try to reach out to me I'm Chris that hey blurry UI.com I can share with you some of the examples that that we are starting to see as they relate to to Jedi goals. Which again I love the phrase theology but I'm maybe a little geek there too. But do you feel free to to reach out anytime and thank you all very much for your questions as you can tell this is a very. It is such a dynamic topic right now. I mean I couldn't pull out my slides from three weeks ago and just use them on this, this presentation. You know we are constantly updating our thoughts are examples. We, you know when I have clients ask me about best practice I'm like, there's a lot of people doing stuff I don't know for sure what is best practice yet. You know, there's there's just it is so dynamic so one thing I can tell you is stay tuned. Really, please just stay tuned and continue to ask and check back with our with some of our thought leadership because we will continue that we are so focused on this and helping our clients on this so please continue to get get in touch with us and ask any questions.