 Welcome to another episode of the non-profit show. We are thrilled to have you back here today for non-profit Power Week. This is our third day of the Power Week, and really glad to have with us today, Muji Kwaja, and he's here as the fundraising academy trainer. He's got all kinds of other accolades behind him, years of experience, so many good stories to share. But again, talking to us about the fundraising academy cause selling model, in particular, we're diving deep. Phase two, steps five and six. Previously this week, we've heard from Muji's colleague, Tony Bell, who's been fantastic with sharing some of the previous cycles with us, our steps, I should say, within that cycle. So really glad to have all of this information for us. We also want to remind you, we haven't had the opportunity to meet you yet. Julia Patrick, you're here, CEO American Non-profit Academy, so honored to be here alongside you. I'm Jarrett Ransom, your non-profit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group, and again, we are so extremely honored, day in and day out to produce these episodes with thought leaders like Muji. We wouldn't be able to do this or even produce the non-profit Power Week if it weren't for our amazing presenting sponsors. A huge shout out to our friends again, all of them, Fundraising Academy at National University, thank you so very much. Also to Bloomerang, your part-time controller, American Non-profit Academy, non-profit thought leader, staffing boutique, non-profit nerd, and non-profit tech talk. These are the companies that have been with us. Many, many of them since the very, very beginning I shared yesterday, 830 plus episodes, and if you missed any of them, that's okay and if you missed any of this week's series, that's okay too, you can go back and listen to them. So scan the QR code right now, just pull out your phone and you can scan the QR on the screen to download our app. That's our latest and greatest. We're still on the broadcast platforms and also on the podcast platform. So if you're like Muji and traveling around the world on your motorcycle, you can still listen to us in podcasts form. So no excuse no matter where you are, really glad to have you. So Muji, without further ado, and I mentioned to all of you watching and listening, Muji is a very prestigious fundraiser, Muji Kwaja, MPA, CFRE, CFRM, I feel like I just said the entire alphabet, but you are a fundraising academy trainer, also at National University. And what I also love about you is you're the co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation. So you bring a lot of personal experience into this. Welcome back. Thank you so much. It's really great to be here and you make me sound way better than I actually am. So I love being on this show. Yeah. I think it's, we talk about this off-camera with you. It's really fascinating, the whole community foundation system in our country. There's so many, there's several that are old, old, practically as old as our nation, and then there's others that are new. And we really do need to get you on and talk about co-founding this particular institution. I just think it's riveting. And I give you a lot of credit for, you know, looking at your community and deciding that this was something you were gonna do, because ultimately it impacts all of us, whether we're in the Muslim community or not. It's just really an exciting thing to see an affinity group marshaling their resources. So... She's such a young co-founder. Like I really admire that about you, Mui, is that really your passion for your faith, your passion for the community, lifting everyone within the community up and to be such a young and I don't know, just eager, eager professional. I appreciate it. Oh, thank you. And I think one of the great things is being able to get our data into sources like GivingUSA and Donor Advice Fund Research Collaborative to talk about the impact that faith has on giving. And I just think it's a really great opportunity with the new 2022 GivingUSA research that came out. Religion is still the primary vehicle. So, I think there's a lot of opportunity and a lot of community foundations are focused regionally, but we're one of the few that are focused nationally to represent our community, but more on that at another time. Yeah, we've got to, we really need to explore this because it's something that I don't know enough about and I know our viewers and listeners would be super interested in it. But today we're really gonna delve into this week long, dare I say re-exploration of the cause selling cycle. We talk about this a lot in snippets, but this week we really are only talking about this whole concept. And so you can jump in and watch one or two episodes or you can start with Monday and go all the way through on Friday. Maybe share this with your board or do some other training or reframe the whole process for your development team. It's really an incredible opportunity. So we've talked about phase one, talked about phase two, and today we're gonna be in delving deep into step five and six, the presentation aspect and then tontontontont handling objections. So talk to us, Mooghi, about the presentation aspect. What are you actually trying to achieve in this particular step? Yeah, definitely. And so grateful to my colleagues that were on earlier this week explaining Venture Cost Selling Cycle and happy to continue that. And really what this focus is on is being able to talk to your prospects and donors about having and figuring out their need and interest and passion for your cause and really presenting to them about the mission of your organization and how that connects. And what you're really trying to do is assist them in recognizing then define that need of showing them how your cause fulfills their goals and philanthropic agenda that they have. And what you're really hoping to do is inspire them to donate to your cause. I think my colleague LaShonda Williams says it perfectly and it's to help donors discover the joy of giving. So when we talk about presentation, you really want to think through what is your style of communicating? Are you somebody who focuses on having a very structured presentation style? Are you somebody who can be impromptu? Do you need bullet points and guide the conversation? And also thinking through what is the social style of the donor and how do they like to receive information? So it's combining a few of those different things to see how, again, the donor ties into the mission of your organization. One of those things that you may want to do and need discovery and some of the earlier steps in the cost-owning cycle is find that attachment to the organization. What inspired the donor to give? And when you can do that, you get to focus your presentation on those things as well. So you may want to include a beneficiary story. You may want to include the impact of how their gift will make a difference. You want to connect the dots the different programmatic areas of your nonprofit as well. One of the things that I often try to look into when I'm talking to donors at previous organizations like the American Right Cross or even American Muslim Community Foundation is really looking at the overall impact the organization has because the donor's entry to the organization may be one program of the area but it's really good to give that overview to showcase the different ways in which the organization makes an impact. And if your donor's making an unrestricted general gift that's always the best. But what if there's something that peaks their interests that can maybe increase their giving to a specific program? You may want to bring that opportunity to the forefront to further discuss that with your donor as well. So it's really great that even in the presentation bring up the various points that your nonprofit focuses on so that you can see what the donor maybe peaks their interest as well. And in regards to a real life application of this, I had met a CEO of a very popular and it won't say where to on it, but it's a rideshare. And they got bought out by another ridesharing app. So this was back in 2020, 2021. And I had a brief moment to get in front of this founder. I was at an event that they were talking at and literally as they were leaving, I was like chasing after them, like tapped them on the shoulder and like introduced myself. And I handed over a business card and said, because of this acquisition, a donor advice fund would be really good for you to have for your future philanthropic goals. I know you don't have time right now, but I'm gonna reach out and hopefully we can set up a time to talk. And I think that left a good impression on him because we ended up having several conversations. Although he didn't choose our donor advice fund to open, he did open up a donor advice fund to add another institution. He wanted to streamline his philanthropic services with his investment accounts and other things like that. But at the end of the day, he appreciated my advice and he wanted to learn more about organization. And I think because of his faith and identity, that was a big calling to see an organization like ours provide services for families across the country. And when I had to make the presentation to him, I was so focused on the aircraft view, right? But he really wanted the ground level to you. He was asking questions like a CEO would. He would talk to me about what are the pain points? What am I experiencing? What are the challenges? What are we doing to overcome them? And then he shared some advice and he started up and how it was successful from the ground level all the way to being acquired by one of those ride sharing app companies. And it was really great. And I get to talk to him once or twice a year and I'm on his calendar regularly now. And thankfully he still needed $50,000 a year to our charity. So I think the presentation, you know, I was so focused on, okay, I'm gonna cover every single aspect. And then he like paused me three slides in and he was just like, let's get straight to it. And I was like, okay, I'm ready. Wow. That's a great story. Jared, it looks like you have a question. Well, you know, I just think that's a great story. We had a previous guest talk about, you know, she's not a fundraiser. She's a philanthropy facilitator. And in your story, you really talked about educating the donor, right? At the end, they chose not to, you know, invest their donor advice funds within your system, but you educated them. And yet that still turned around for a pretty sizable gift, right? And so looking at it that way, for me I've noticed in my career, like I get so focused on closing the deal, if you will, right? It's like, that's what's in line, but this really tells us in a different perspective, which I just really appreciate. You know, Mui, my observation with you, and I really appreciate you sharing this story because it seems like when you think about this presentation to the prospective donor, there's two ways to look at it. How am I gonna present as the fundraiser? And then how should I present based on what the donor is saying? And in your example of the guys like three slides in, no, do something else. You had to pivot, right? Very quickly, yeah. How did you feel about that? Did it kind of shake you up or what did you do? Yeah, it definitely had me stuttering and like collecting my thoughts for a few seconds, but this was through the pandemic, so it was a virtual call. And I think I was able to focus on exactly what he was asking. I necessarily wasn't prepared for that. So again, going back to structured, scripted conversation to an impromptu or guided, this definitely shifted from what I originally thought of. And, you know, as the founder of the organization, I definitely knew that Anton Alton was able to talk to him founder to founder. And I think that was really cool. And I appreciated his insights because it gave me new perspective on the challenges that we were having. And he was able to relate challenges that we had as the nonprofit to the challenges he had as a startup tech company. So it was really cool to see the different connections there. And obvious and also just like something that I didn't expect as an outcome of the conversation. So again, it was like being open-minded to where the conversation could go. And I think at the end of the day, he really believes in me as a nonprofit leader. And I think that's the connection that we made through that about me taking a risk, making a cold introduction, just being there to then having a proof-making shape with donor philanthropists. And he's even told me about other charities that he likes and examples of good fundraising and bad fundraising in his experience as well. So I've been able to talk to him about the way in which he gives, why he supports the causes and get a better understanding of those inclinations for the missions that he cares about. Yeah. And I think it's really important. Like, we can prepare all we want to prepare. And in that moment, something could change to where it's like, okay, I prepared this whole dog and pony show. And now, nope, we're down to a five minute brass tacks conversation. I'm more impromptu, shocker, I know, as well as the bullet points, right? Like, so for me, that's my best combination. But there could be someone, as you were saying, Julia, right? It's like, no, they want the very formal presentation. They want sides, they want the report. Like, they want all of that. And so it's just really important for us to remember, regardless of how much preparation, in the moment, something could change and we have to be so flexible and willing to be adaptable. So, Muhi and Jared, I think that's like, I think that's really a great way to lead us into this next piece because part of the flexible thinking and the mindset are going to be objections. And talk to us about that. I mean, how hard is it for you to be like, oh my God, this conversation's over, they hate me and they hate my concept versus I can lead through this? Like, do you ever have that moment that I call the crisis of faith where you're just like, I screwed it up and I've lost them? Like, what does that look like for you? Yeah, you know, it's a curve ball. And in real time, this situation with the CEO was definitely an objection. He was like, I don't want to go about that. Tell me about something else, right? And then we focused on, again, finding what it was. It wasn't a no. It wasn't, I'm not interested in this at all. It was, let's get to the brass tacks. Let's figure out what the problems are that you're facing because again, he valued the mission. He understands the vision and what we want to do. And much like many of your donors, they're gonna be bought into the mission. They're gonna be supporting you because they believe in what you do. And what handling objections is about is overcoming potential roadblocks together. So when you are looking at and listening for the cues and observing the situation, you're really offering a moment for them to let what you're sharing marinates with them. And oftentimes this is in real time, right? So you might be talking about the mission, you may be talking about the program and they're receiving the message. And the analogy behind all of this as well is there may be some words that will trigger certain thoughts that, you know, it's the way that it was said that maybe causes a speculation. I mean, curiosity from the donor. Again, it's not something that's off-putting, but it's like, I wanna learn more about it. So you really need to provide opportunities for your donors to talk. And what they always say about development is that the art and the science of fundraising, right? So you need to be listening for those cues from your donors. And I think when you give the opportunity to speak, you really, especially in these discovery meetings and when you're making the ask, you want the donor to be doing a lot of the talking. It allows them the opportunity to come up with these objections that you will need to then re-clarify and re-state and get a better understanding of maybe even something along the lines of, now that I've shared more information about this, does that clear up any of the questions that you have? But you get back to the level basis. So what if you don't know an answer? What if somebody asks you something and you're like, oh my God, I've just lost this deal because I don't know the answer? How do you recommend that we navigate that? Yeah, I think that's a very common thing that happens. Somebody may not have all the information or a colleague may be better suited for talking about a specific program or the financials or something else that comes up. So having grace through the situation and saying, I actually don't know the answer to them, but my colleague is better suited and let me get back to them and I'll respond to you with an important word afterwards. Okay, okay. And then maybe even offering if they're really interested in it to hear directly from your colleague. You are a relationship manager. You're not a gatekeeper, right? So you can introduce your own donors to other people within your organization and that strengthens the donor's experience with the nonprofit as well. Give them time to talk to a volunteer manager or a service beneficiary or the executive director or a board member. You should be introducing your major gift donors to the positions and hopefully your colleagues are on that strategy. That's a great statement. You're a relationship manager, not a gatekeeper. And I feel too often, like maybe we have portfolios, maybe we work in Moves Management and we're like, this is our donor. In reality, we know it's not. The donor is in alignment with the mission and we're here again as that philanthropy facilitator. I have some questions about handling objections when it comes to real life scenarios, right? And so there's a lot going on in life right now, right? Whether it's a separation, a divorce, a loss of a spouse or a partner, children going to school. So if this is a major donor and we might have been anticipating their gift to increase or whatever that might be and they're like, actually I'm going through some real life scenarios, how to navigate that? Because to me, that's something that's like, it's harder to really like get over. For me, it's more of that like, okay, I acknowledge it and when would be a good time for me to come back to you? So how have you handled this? Yeah, an example from a telehealth nonprofit that I served as a chief development officer at the CEO or founder, sorry, the founder was a physician who was OBGYN and a lot of the donors were her patients, grateful patients and she knew personally that a donor was going through a divorce and I wanted to communicate with a donor just like to talk to them about their annual giving and she said, well, it's not a good time because they're going through a divorce and to me, I wanted to still make an outreach and just see if they would take a meeting and they did and learning through that process, the donor said, we are going through a divorce but agreeing that we would still make our financial contributions and sunset our donor advise fund that we have together. So without the curiosity and without the hoods blood that I have, just reaching out and trying to talk to them more, we would have lost a significant annual donation that year, how do we know? Just because of the situation. Everybody's financial situation is different, of course, and divorces are tough and especially finding this way it could be gutting at times as well. But in this case, it was a great thing that they had amically agreed to sunset the advice fund and we were one of their top charities so they continued to support us through that challenge exactly. You know, and that speaks to the assumption like not to make an assumption and to really let the donor share with you, right? Where they are financially, where they are in the decision and let them really tell you as opposed to coming into it with that preconceived, you know, oh, we know this about them, therefore we're making this broad assumption they're not going to make a gift at this time but that's not always the case. No, that's really interesting. I think for me and I appreciate you sharing that story because it seems to me that since you had been building a relationship, overcoming that potential objection was a lot easier to navigate because it was something that you could kind of pull through that cycle, right? You could say, well, I have a relationship and I can express my concern or, you know, put this on pause. So yeah, really interesting. I wouldn't have thought of that as a strategy. You know, before we let you go, I've got to ask you because this has been really an interesting aspect of our nonprofit Power Week. Can you share with us what online.fundraising-academy.org can do for folks interested in learning more about the cause selling cycle process? Of course. And, you know, as we talked about, you know, each step in the cause selling cycle, Fundraising-academy has webinars on each and every one that we deep dive an hour, hour and a half on each of these different steps. So you got a small tidbit today, but there is so much more available on our website. And when you log in and register, you'll be able to see all of the free monthly webinars that we have offered in the past historically. And you will need a plethora of other tools and resources and worksheet guides and questions that you can ask donors and everything else. So it's a really great one-stop shop for you. And again, it's a free resource. So take advantage of it and it really just gives you a lot of wonderful insight and information into the big stuff cause selling cycle. Cool. Well, thank you. Yeah, it's a, I have been on it. I know Jared has too. It's truly remarkable. And it is an abundant amount of information. It's not like a one-stop shop. I mean, it's something you could go to, you know, every day for a period of time, every week. I mean, it's always changing. Your guys are always uploading and adding new information. So again, online.fundraising-academy.org, check it out. Mojiquaja, wow. Now I'm like really impressed that you're touring national parks on a motorcycle. You're like the Balvivant fundraiser. That's what we're gonna start to call you cause that's really impressive. A trainer fundraising academy, more, I would say for me, more impressively, the co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation, which we're gonna hold you to a deeper conversation about that cause I think it's riveting a national community foundation, not just a community, you know, specific area. So really super cool to get your insight with us. Again, nonprofit Power Week, we have been supported generously by our friends at Fundraising Academy at National University, Blue Morang, your part-time controller, American nonprofit academy, nonprofit.leader, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk. These are the folks that joined Jarrett and I day in and day out to help produce more than 800 episodes of the nonprofit show. So Jarrett, thank you so much for joining us on this quest. It's been a lot of fun. Moohy, you really inspired me and made me think about this process a little differently when we talk about handling objections and this presentation piece. So thank you very, very much. Thank you for the opportunity and just really grateful to be here. One thing I love that you shared was really about, you know, how you took the divorce story. It could have gone one way or the other. And now I will forever see that as a huge opportunity. You know, so you don't know unless you have the conversation. Yeah, exactly. And you know, there were a top five donor to the pork annually. So it was like, I had a goal to hit and I was like, we got it. We got to bark up this. Yeah, and I think it's loyal donors, you know. Exactly, yeah. And it was, yeah. Yeah, that was impressive. I really appreciate that. Well, hey everybody, as we end every episode of the nonprofit show, we want to remind everyone to stay well. Yeah, so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow and then for another episode of nonprofit power week with Fundraising Academy.