 Welcome back here so watching the breakfast on plus TV Africa now to a first major conversation on the program of this morning Russia has begun a large-scale military attack on Ukraine It's a southern neighbor on the orders of Russian president Vladimir Putin their reports of attacks on Ukrainian military infrastructure across the country and Russian convoys entering Ukraine from all directions are mis-apputing and The televised the speech yesterday announced a military what he called a military operation in Ukraine's eastern Donbass region of parts of which have been occupied and run by Russian-backed rebels since 2014 Putin said Russia was intervening as an act of self-defense Russia did not want to occupy Ukraine He said but would not a would de-militarize and what he called denacify The country now loud explosions were heard in the capital cave as well as Kramatosk in the Donetsk region of Eastern Ukraine Blasts have also been heard in the southern port city of Odessa Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelinsky said Russia had carried out missile strikes in Ukraine's on Ukraine's infrastructure and on border guards of that country Russia's defense ministry Mino has denied attacking Ukraine cities or Ukrainian cities Saying it was targeting military infrastructure air defense and air forces with high precision weapons But Ukraine says tanks and troops are poured into its country at points along its eastern Southern and northern borders the United Nations refugee agency said an estimated hundred thousand Ukrainians had fled their homes Thousands were crossing into neighboring countries including Romania Moldova Poland and Hungary The United States and European Union have announced another raft of economic sanctions, but stop short of targeting Vladimir Putin himself And I'm joining us to take a look at this particular Issue and of course give us his analysis of the subject matter We have a guest and he is being with us on the program before I'm talking about none other Dr. Katrin I'm talking about none other than dr. Katch who is an international affairs analyst dr. Katch Thank you very much for your time and apologies for them. Thank you for having me forgive us, please Thank you very much. And what are your thoughts on what's been happening so far? Of course, I'm in the build-up to this particular operation Vladimir Putin had denied Any intention to attack or enter invade Ukraine and last week you were here talking about this issue With Joe Biden given the exact day that Putin will attack Ukraine now. It's happened your thoughts Well, nothing is surprising to everybody the way The West led Ukraine on the primrose path was seen was predictable. It was very very simple if there was the Doctrine that says don't allow somebody bring any weapon on your backyard and the Americans correctly reacted to it called the mode did the Monroe protocol and the Monroe protocol simply said us you Missiles be in this case stationed in Cuba ride on the US backyards and that protocol was acceptable across the world That don't let it be so that you're not taking on our words And that's exactly the reasons why Russia had begged that now that the court is falling and That's a perestroika has brought and end to the former Soviet Union They asked that for the sake of peace let us Also extend the Monroe protocol so that you do not have come over to the east and The NATO Alliance agreed and everybody agreed, but then we've seen five different waves of NATO You hadn't Romania joined Poland joined Lithuania a stone here and and now suddenly you're talking about Ukraine and if you look at the history between Ukraine and Russia You will know that one could not have existed without the order. Don't forget Ukraine itself as it is today is a big creation of Soviet leaders Remember the Kita Khrushchev? He is actually a Russian, but Ukrainian Russian Who became subject leader and it was him who gave up? Kremlin with his a basketball Port to the Soviets Navy and that became the biggest right there and So we expect this history is known to NATO and they should have pushed Ukraine this far down the primrose path. I believe The worst should take the blame for this crisis Russia complained they listened, but then some people got cocky and what we have now is a Russian reaction Which is strategic in terms of security considerations. It is strategic That was why I asked a last week and say all this making noise right now What have they done in regard to the Minsk protocol? What did they do since the crisis started in? February 2014 what did you do as a crisis? Rage on all the dumb ass parts. Don't forget dumb ass is the historical name known Up for that area during the Middle Ages and that's when all that was part and parcel of Russia and Through the creation now several parts of Russia had been severe to Ukraine So I don't think it would be proper that the Russian should lose all that Suddenly for an American seeking to peel away Ukraine from Russian wall and then use that as a bulwark on the Russian border I think that's what the Russians are doing again. We need to be mindful about this Yeah, this narrative that you you are you know, you're putting out there is the same narrative that them The the Russian president is also putting out there. I mean as we speak all, you know country or independent media Into Russia has been blocked Internet information getting into Russia has been blocked and what the Russian president is telling his people the information is feeding them Or the propaganda is that Russia is invading Ukraine as an act of self-defense now You've talked about the port of Sevastopol. You've talked about the Minsk protocol of the Minsk agreement You've talked about para stroika. You've talked about, you know every other thing and you know that Russia has you know against the the the neto getting into They bring Ukraine into its fold But isn't this nation of Ukraine an independent nation that is a democratic nation that deserves the right to determine Which groups it wants to join? When Ukraine became independent, you're aware that some of the Conditions included, you know given up its its nuclear arsenal if I'm correct. So where lies the the the case for Independence of Ukraine as a sovereign nation because the Soviet Union is gone Well, this is an argument you are making I I'm happy. I test this Entered this right before this crisis occurred. I stated it because I've been following the Minsk protocol I have been following in the events right from 2014 and I believed We could have avoided this particular crisis Ukraine yes, you now call it an independent nation But then Ukraine to modern Russia is still the boutique creation that Russia created And there are things which should be For all her peace. Yes, you can call it an independent nation But is Ukraine really independent if Ukraine was independent? What did the West do? When Crimea was taken by Russia, can't you say that you allow them to take Crimea you allow them Sustain their state as a basketball and you then saw the crisis in Donbass. What did you do? Did Europe do more to try to bring about peace in Donbass? No So this is what we're in and Russia and I felt there's a need to protect those Who can be Russia pro-Russia and they are Russian speaking and this is the problem. Yes The Soviet Union may have broken down But they need people who understand the history to guide the foreign policy players to understand There are certain things that are not as the same and as you've seen with cream It seemed an independent nation, but now in actions. It's not independent So this are some of the intricacies that we need to learn how to manage. We saw it coming at the best Don't move this false. You're gonna damage Russia is doing don't forget. It is a reactive So you could put all kind of sanctions you want But Russia is simply reacting to what it feels is a strategic security need They now need to present Ukraine from being used as a staging ground and I believe Experience in Afghanistan and Iraq Russia may not want to occupy Ukraine No, because you've seen in Russia and Afghanistan that occupation does not work Because you end up fighting surgency until you leave So probably what I suspect they want to do is if Ukraine cannot stay stable and the peaceful Russia will wreck Ukraine and it is currently wrecking Ukraine from within and after wrecking Ukraine Nobody in NATO would be fit or consider any remnant What's there as a good enough to do any business with that's what Russia is going to do And I think this is that volume. We should have stopped being this far. So that's a catch on the new truth Yes, I so are you saying that the Russia invading Ukraine is just to render Ukraine useless and not attractive to NATO That's what it says. It is not invading to occupy It is invading to wreck Ukraine when you wreck Ukraine NATO will not see anybody to deal with and then if it's simply a geography is true with lots of Controllable debris. There is none you can So that's what they are doing because from what we knew the experience in Afghanistan and in Iraq I've shown both Russia and the United States that occupation is old school Occupation doesn't work anymore. If you do an occupation, you will end up wasting your energy wasting your resources at the nail Against the insurgency. So the right thing to do as I think they're doing it right now It's going into Ukraine to wreck Ukraine and then what we'll see nobody to talk to Remania after Poland and whoever is there as for Belarus Belarus is already with Russia This also tells you what Georgia tried to do see where Georgia ended up what you can just try to do See where they ended up. This is why The lens it should have linked that those who came before him have been politely Navigating that very delicate balance or trying to sit with rush Mother Russia and still be friendly to those Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. Dr. Nuju. So there are some issues that have it with what you're saying But before I go I respect you are you are you're basically saying from what do you say? It seems like Vladimir Putin still has this this ideal this obsessive fantasy of The Soviet Union still being around because the Soviet Union. No, it was gone because if you're talking about Georgia You're talking about Belarus. You're talking about Ukraine, you know and and all these other countries that were part of the old Soviet Union and as a part of the country I'm trying to remember right now whose president is also going after its citizens who are expecting expressing support for Ukraine and But better was being a client states to to to Russia and even the troops from Russia using that as an Angle to to attack Ukraine. This seems to be a denial and refusal to accept that there is no more a Soviet Union and Trying to to have a semblance of the Soviet Union or trying to have that same influence about those countries that are Independent and I state again that Ukraine is independent But you're saying that Ukraine is not independent because of mother Russia They are a sovereign nation of sovereign nation with a sovereign constitution a sovereign people a sovereign flag a sovereign army They are not part of Russia So so so I mean how can you then defend it and it seems you're saying Blaming the West and blaming Ukraine for Russia taking this action like the EU Chair said yesterday. She said that Russia is the one attacking Ukraine The West didn't attract attack Ukraine the West even tried to they tried to have a sort of a peaceful Resolution of the crisis with the likes of of the French president Macron going to see Putin talking to him But Putin lied all along. He said he wasn't interested in attacking Ukraine He lied and woke up one day and sent his troops into Ukraine now people innocent people are dying and they said there's an implication in the global economy He didn't choose a path of peace. So this is all on him. Dr. Nuneju No, no, no, no, no, no, you know Cuba was also an independent nation and Cuba had every right to You know accommodate whoever it is sought in this country, but The US was very hysterical about the Soviet Union stationing measures in Cuba So if due to the Monroe Doctrine, the West was not comfortable with the Soviet Union Had this but an advantage on citing weapons to a place that is already in the US back here You don't do that. So that's also the same way that Russia felt about Ukraine being used as a Western bull on the Russian border. So those who try to peel off Ukraine of Mother Russia should have themselves to blame. You know, this is international diplomacy You also need to look at the strategic input of the fence and security considerations Dr. Dr. Nuneju, you are you are you are they're still making the point that this that was in the Soviet era The era of the Cold War when you had the standoff in Cuba between the Americans and the Soviet forces That was years ago like the EU is saying Russia is taking us back to the dark ages that we thought Europe was out of The world has moved on from that kind of of thinking and of course if if if Putin is still doing this It means he still has this fantasy of the Cold War or the Soviet Union still being the Soviet Union The world has moved on from that. No, so he's taking us back to where we don't want to go to No The Soviet Union is gone. So you're not gonna have another Cold War Russia is not the Soviet Union But Russia needs security guarantees and those security guarantees Includes a behavior like this by President Putin. Don't forget Putin is not a normal politician Putin came from the security branch of the Soviet state. He came from the KGB So they are first and foremost thinking about Protecting the integrity of the Russian state. It is the protection of Russia that Putin is acting on behalf We saw this crisis. Look, there is nothing that stops you from simply avoiding Us getting here when you knew if you push too much towards the Russian border Russia will react this way Russia would not wait for you to say you're shooting. No, it's just the same way the West saw Russia moving arms soldiers personnel artillery To the Ukrainian border and they were able to tell you that with an army this massively station on the border The next thing is an invasion Let's also look at the issue of the sanctions. I mean if use, you know, some people would say it's laughable that the West would always You know trunk out this Sanctions, but it hasn't really worked. He hasn't detect Putin It hasn't also deterred, you know the likes of King John and would also seem you know back You know in Africa here where we had the coups Especially, you know in the West African region and you see that The a course the communities would always place sanctions and these sanctions don't really really stop anything Isn't it laughable that we constantly have to use sanctions as a way of trying to solve international problems? And that hasn't necessarily solved any problem. Dr. Katch. What are your thoughts on this? Well sanctions are Systems of reacting and sanctions simply would not walk because The person you need for sanction to walk is China and in this case China as I yesterday was also reported to have breached The Taiwan security zone. So it also has territorial issues of its own Even though I will tell you what Russia did in Ukraine is not about territory. It's about security The biggest problem the West has is China. So China's games and pretensions On the islands in the sea is the big problem So the West does need Russia to go against China to resolve Iran to resolve Syria And they resolve a lot of things across the world The real adversary the West has is China. So China knows this and China will make sure It does not allow those sanctions to work What sanction is a sanction on the gas pipeline with the North from one and two when already China is also a Competitor for that gas China has bought some of this gas into the future and buying a lot of energy Staples from Russia into the future. What that tells you is for Russia's energy market There is competition from Europeans through the Nordstrom pipeline and there is also direct competition From Russia who also needs the energy to power is aggressive Production capabilities for the rest of the world China today is the production factory for the world And they will need energy going forward. So I really believe we have so much problems in the world That this Ukraine something should have been avoided Should have been avoided by not leading Ukraine down the Primrose Park Now that mistake has to happen and Russia has accordingly Predictably reacted the way we want, you know, it's not everything that you see that are actually the way they seem Regret may seem like an independent country, but you have not seen through actions first in 2014 in Crimea and then the crisis that gave birth to all this and to the Separatist movements in Donbas and Russia now using that as a pretext of access So just to go into Donbas for the sake of peacekeeping and they from there They now launch attack going everywhere from Odessa to kill the catch Where I can't we could to have stopped this if we could So so dr. Catch if you are saying that, you know sanctions are just old methods of solving problem How do we go about because I mean this is an issue of human rights Valuation and not respecting, you know the sovereignty of a nation. So how do nations how do you this body's nouns of? All of these issues not also leaving Africa out of this and the second question would be in all of this is going on We have seen conversations in the spaces and some people say it's no business of Africa Where does Africa stand in all of this? Well, Africa stands nowhere Africa will simply say on its own It has nothing it can do it cannot rock the boats is not needed for sanctions For sanctions China is who is needed to cooperate or to bust it and that I know they will bust it Africa has nothing to do but Africa also has something to gain Because should Europe be looking for a computing platform to gain energy supplies It can take Nigeria's guy a gas that has not been found to be the largest gas field in the whole of Africa so there could be a long-term Competition for the Russian nostrum gas that seems to be what the Germans and other Europeans Actually embracing for their energy needs if they'd seek to change that Africa is available to provide the alternative gas Pipeline, but then apart from that there's nothing we can do because there are three players in this business one is Russia Secondly is the United States leading the natural alliance the unseen player is China China is very interested because of his crisis in the island in the sea With bothering with its neighbors. It also has territorial issues in regards to it argument with Taiwan so China right now is very likely to support Russia and of course, you know Ukraine is not as a real estate of strategic interest to the NATO allies note, but Ukraine as a real estate is a very strategic interest to Russia Secondly, Ukraine does not enjoy the triggering of article five of the NATO Street No, America enjoyed triggering article five of the NATO Treaty because it said it was attacked by a foreign body in 9-11 and that was why in reaction Need to have now to come and back him and that was that article five came in but in the issue of Ukraine You can't know Bringing article five Ukraine is not a member of NATO Ukraine should not have gone the path it did Now it has done it. Look at the strategic calculations. Okay. Nobody can save them You're still blaming you're still blaming an independent sovereign nation called Ukraine of them even thinking thinking about about Making its own, you know independent decision of joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and you're not condemning Vladimir Putin for first of all starting a proxy war in in in Donbass and in in in Crimea and then going there saying he's He going to protect the Russian-speaking populist there Meanwhile, you don't have only Russian-speaking people they have native Ukrainians there as well who've had to flee And then from there now lying to the world and launching an attack on Ukraine Which has led to the loss of several hundred lives. You're not condemning Putin You're simply saying for the fact that Ukraine even thought about joining NATO That's their fault and it's the fault of the NATO countries as well But so we'll say that Vladimir Putin needs to be condemned in no uncertain terms and in very strong terms for this action So why are you not condemning Vladimir Putin? Because I understood the fundamentals. You are only seeing the crisis But I've been with this issue since 2014. I have followed this crisis since 1992 So yes, you're talking about the end of the Soviet Union now We are dealing with the aftermath and you say the end simply means everybody's free. Is Georgia free? No, it's just in your free Belarus and allowed the joint military manoeuvre does that look like a free country So therefore therefore this this lens credence to the argument that Putin is refusing to accept that the Soviet Union is over Ukraine So you would agree has consistently received or been been subject to interruptions and Interferences in its politics by Russia all over the years. Is it about the gas pipelines? You know being turned off all through the years Russia has refused to accept that Ukraine is an independent nation Is it their fault to try to exercise your freedom to try to break away and to try to seek protection on the NATO? So that they can remain independent free and peaceful Well, if you have a diverse between a man and a woman and there are children involved in that and The children are going to school and the children are with living with their mother You'll be foolish to just jump into a relationship with that woman with her children and the crisis She has with her husband. You should just stay away and allow them to resolve their issues before you jump in If you jump in anyhow a fight meant for the woman could get you tearing your shirt Teary now you don't need to step in it's a family matter. It has just started It probably will take long. Don't forget Ukraine and Russia have been on since the 9th century The 9th century that was before China invented tea in the 10th century For Ukraine and Russia have been together since before the introduction of tea Which we drink across the world. So if they have been that low happen on Ukrainian soil Brezhnev is from Ukraine. Peter Kuzchuk is from Ukraine Ukraine is not just a normal country It is a boutique creation of Russia. So when these things are, you know, unrevealed You don't just jump into it. No You don't let it cool down. And that's why you didn't know to jump in now you jumped into Ukraine Look at where we are. So Mr. Refuse you've refused to condemn pity. That's okay. You won't do that till we are done. I'm sure even we put a gun to your head You know, you wouldn't do that. But but but there's they said power corrupts and absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. Um Putin you said a former KGB spy Who in my opinion has refused to accept that the air of the Soviet Union is over and has his ambition to restore The Russian glory that was lost with They lost the loss of the Soviet Union if if he is able to do what he wants to do He says he wants to denazify Ukraine what does that mean he says wants to demilitarize Ukraine and then denazify Ukraine What does he mean by denazify Ukraine? Well, he's playing with the rhetorics and I'm the rhetorics only one of them is real Demilitarize demilitarize exactly what that's what I'm telling you there. He's not going to occupy He will go there and make Ukraine an important don't forget After the end of the Soviet Union All the weapons that were In ukrainian possession Nuclear warheads we are all secluded into russia hands and so ukraine is just So what you are saying is right from the end of the Soviet Union? They have been this slow process of I'm making ukraine what it was in the days of the Soviet thing. They started that by taking away the nuclear capabilities ukraine has now Russia took away Crimea the sabastopol palm now They started in dumb thoughts which is today's Donetsk and And historically in pre-media time. It was called the pre-media time dumbbells So now we're beginning to see ukraine go back to his history Why jump into that problem? No, I don't want to start a question in blames Because I believe I will be right Every day to blame the man who left his house and went to a madman And started pointing fingers at the madman's face the madman would break your head where you asked me what happened I would say you were foolish to go to his house to stop poking at his face a madman will react in a certain way Russia historical Russia will react in this way Russia is afraid that it has been encircled. That's why it's doing what is doing. That is what it is Dr. This is an act in my calculation of self-defense Doctor catch some of the persons have also said that Putin was affected by what happened to Gaddafi at the time and Which was being led by netto and so this he is looking at Ukraine as a 2.0 for Libya apparently and he's trying to you know, probably maybe just protect himself And that's the position that you're coming from well, we quickly have to you know No, no, no, no, you are you are very very wrong Libya and Russia not the same Libya is not a nuclear But you can't take away the fact that you can't take away the fact that what happened to a Gaddafi was led by netto No, but it can never happen to Libya. It happened to Gaddafi because Gaddafi had no nuclear arsenal If Gaddafi had had nuclear capability, netto will not go to Netto will not go to Libya. So because Russia is a big boy. Nobody's thinking of going there Iraq Kuwait was not a member of NATO yet. They went there to fight. So ask yourself Why wouldn't they go to Russia because Russia is a nuclear bearing power. That's all But in all of this justice, we you know call it for a tip to roll now We can't take out the fact from your analysis that Putin is just acting in self-interest He's trying to protect himself and protect Russia. That's what it is Yes, he is protecting Russia. It is not Putin protecting But if he protects Russia, he's part of Russia, so he's protecting himself It is no no no. He's protecting Russia. All right First and foremost not working as a Putin is working as a KGB man KGB security Russian security personnel are protecting Russia's strategic security interests and that is don't allow a Bulwark of Western Defense against Russia. No remove it if they want to organize Let them go as far as Romania Let them go as far as Poland and then Poland will know that they will be beneficiaries of Russia initial reaction should they feel threatened from Poland or from Romania So you take the risk you don't come and say Russia versus Russia because Ukraine is Russia and Russia is Ukraine Sorry to interrupt Yes, sorry to interrupt sir. We would have to take a break. I wish you had somebody who was a different school to you to to be with you on this program so that We can debate But we'll go on the break and we'll come back We have an interview with a Nigerian young Nigerian who is in the The city of Kakev in in Ukraine that they spoke to plus TV Africa on his experience in Ukraine as we speak Fality a Nigerian medical student who has been in Ukraine since 2017 earlier when I was speaking to Steven. He told me that he was underground Steven are you with me there? I Can see that there's no light where you are can you tell us what's been happening and how safe you are Then So can you tell us how you moved from your From your home your hostel to where you are now and where exactly is it? What kind of security has been put in place for you and others who are there right now? Everywhere Yes, we can see that there's a blackout as this always been the case or is this because of what's happening right now And is government saying anything about the blackout is is it a strategy? Is government saying anything about it? Have you heard anything? How long what do you think you'd be underground there Not sure probability to marry me What are the kind of things provided to keep all of you safe and healthy? I You told me earlier that your medical students and you've been in Ukraine since 2017 has there been anything like what you're seeing today and Are you? Willing to return home now that the Nigerian government is saying that Nigerians in Ukraine would be evacuated There's been nothing like this as I go here. I think everything I've always been peaceful I think once in last year when we were hearing about war everything I forgot something last year but later nothing after that too then Now it's just Surprising All right, like I said the Nigerian government is planning to evacuate Nigerians from the troubled region would you be willing to return or you think that things would get back to normal and then you would Rather stay I don't I don't think it's safe to play in that person There are black in effort. Actually, we don't effort the risk period in Kiev and I don't think it's safe to fly out Thank you so much Stephen. We will get it. We'll keep in touch with you During our flagship bulletin. That would be 9 30 you are one hour ahead of us We'll keep in touch with you to know how it's going. I do Say please remain safe where you are and thank you All right, welcome back a doctor. No, you're still there and that was a Nigerian student in in khaki If Ukraine speaking to plus TV Africa on the news update earlier Why your thoughts on on evacuation because of course a Nigerian embassy in Ukraine in Kiev has said Nigerians there should be safe and should also be responsible for the personal safety The Nigerian House of Reps yesterday during the plenary adopted a motion calling for the federal government to evacuate Nigerians in Ukraine and even saying that they are ready to bear the cost personally and Is the fact evacuation possible at this point? Of course evacuation is possible All Russia is trying to do is just to knock out the response capability of the Ukraine states and in this way It's going fast for its military. So Militarization didn't stop vehicles moving on the streets. It didn't stop life No, anything can still go on that is simply want to take possession of the important places like airports military facilities So they told you is that demilitarization the other one of the nazi fire station is simply a mindset issue They think they are like nazis that hated Russians in the end of the first. So that's why they put that way principally what we're doing is on the mind and remove Ukraine's capability to own a military the only force that can carry God in the next Fortnight there will probably be that control by Russia and then they will leave it come back home Set up a banana government that will look after the wrecked place and nobody can come and talk to them anymore So I think that's where Russia is going to. Okay, so Russia. I'm not in Russia. I'm a Nigerian. I'm only Simply knowledgeable about these issues and that's why I'm trying to explain What has happened and how we got here and then also telling you there are things that could have been done To avoid this because Russia is in a hysterical state and very very afraid that should they allow such Game to occur that then trouble the same way the Americans Disagree for the fighting of Russian missiles on American border on the territory of an independent country Cuba is the same way that Russia is currently reacting to any idea of NATO Bringing armaments and weapons to be stationed on this border in a place called Ukraine Which historically from the 9th century BC have been a creation of Russian life. Okay, but Dr. Katra Nuno drew and let also ask you say that this is not a time I mean, it's okay to go ahead with evacuation plans But we also have reports saying that the Ukrainian airspace has been shot And so it's really dicey at a time to you know want to because apparently we're going to be using the airwaves The airways, you know to get to evacuate Nigerian student there another issue of contention has been a lot of back and forth especially looking at the Micro-blogging platform that's Twitter and some people say that Nigerian government should not be blamed for Evacuation even though you can't take out the fact that they should be concerned about the lives of her citizen in Ukraine and whether it's in Russia because you have parents who Have singled hadn't Lee sent their kids or words to school in Ukraine and in Russia. However the case may be Well, you know historically Nigerian government says the Buhari era is known for not being ready for anything. So I'll be very surprised if Nigeria has been ready to do the right thing. Don't forget this crisis was predictable I saved it on this TV station before the shootings are called and I told you if the West don't do this This will happen and they did it and it happens to other countries knew about this inept ability We're making a mission to pull their people away. How did Nigeria not act at that time? It left it as ever about Nigeria. It starts to react The Buhari administration is a government that does not act. No, it's react But but dr. Cash, you see how the Indians not I mean you also still have Indians who are still in Ukraine They haven't been evacuated. I'm not even sure the United States It doesn't I mean Nigerians are not the only ones who have not evacuated her citizen And the other question you've answered this other pad is how save is the airspace at this point? The airspace is still safe. It's only it's there by Russia The airspace is still being used But of course you have to agree with the people who control the entry and The exit points. So once you and them put right now are the Russian authorities agree Of course, they will allow officials to continue The Red Cross is also working and I think life is still moving on in Ukraine All Russia wants to do is just stamp its authority on the entire space And just give it two three days. We'll get clear pictures of where we're going to and life will stay continue All right, so I really don't see a big issue in this It's not like you have a shooting walk between Russia and Ukraine. No You just have Russia doing what a lot of people knew was going to happen But when would this happen? It has not happened. So let us peacefully manage it in a way Doesn't take more lives at that than is necessary. All right Yeah before we go because of time sir, sorry to interrupt you, but but and how do you expect this to end? Because of course russian president Ukrainian president Volodymyr Bolinsky Zelinsky has been speaking today. He says that um, uh, Russia has attacked, you know parts of Ukraine including Kiev the bbc reports that The uh Explosions around the capital city of Russia of Ukraine as Zelinsky says he believes that Russia is after him They want to kill him now. You said Russia is just going out to demilitarize and Uh, um, you know attack the military installations of Ukraine. Is this a get in get out operation? Or do you see Russia, you know staying back a bit to impose Its authority and to sort of in a way indirectly annex you the entire Ukraine by setting up a government there and deposing The administration of Zelinsky possibly even killing Zelinsky No, no Zelinsky is not is not necessary. It's not important It has found what others refuse to do and that's why he's gotten the reaction that he got That situation has been there since The crisis started But others were able to politely manage it, you know, but he came there and he showed how very You know inexperience is and allowed nature to push him down the dangerous path So Zelinsky is not the problem of Russia. Russia will probably do a quick one and then install coupets and return back home It has it has learned from iraq and afghanistan That occupation is old school. It doesn't work anymore. You saw how russia suffered in afghanistan You saw how us suffered in occupation and in afghanistan So soldier the anise learned from the mistakes of their own troops and also the mistake of other nations They know that occupation is old school nonsense. It doesn't work. That's a catch. They are Install coupets and that would be enough Thank you so much. We do really appreciate your time. It's always a delight to listen to you Show your thoughts on this issue and we look forward to uh speaking with you as this event unfold Thank you for having me Thank you so much. Dr. Kachanudu is the director general at the harry state center aboudre Once again, thank you so much for your time And that's the size of the conversation and we have been making these comments, you know on the side That's a that's a joke. We hope we don't get any missiles here Oh, miss, uh, well, you know, definitely would but but um, it would be interesting to see how this pans out We have we have so many questions for dr. Noji, but uh time is on the frame them Be sure of uh around the clock coverage of the ukrainian Russian crisis right here on plus tv africa around across the programs and across the news bulletins You don't want to change the channel all through the weekend and uh till we return next week My name is kofi pretels Well, if you miss out on any part of the conversation It's all right to follow us on facebook twitter and instagram what plus tv africa and to subscribe to our youtube channel That's a plus tv africa lifestyle. I am messia boko. Have a fantastic friday