 And welcome to season one, episode seven. Can you believe it of figments, the power of imagination on Think Tech Hawaii? And I want to thank Think Tech, a great organization, a non-profit organization that can use your support for letting me air Think Tech or air figments and share some inspiring stories. And that's what all of this is meant to do is to entertain you for 30 minutes and inspire you in your own lives. And by the way, at the end of the show, I'm going to have some exciting news about another version of figments to appear on alternate weeks. So stay tuned for that. I have two great friends with me today, wonderful people. And I have to admit, one of them is married to the guy who gets all my money in the golf course, especially in the last three weeks. So with me are Kim Rowley and Bruce Fink. And I know them through my Air Force and military connections. Kim's a physics teacher, an Air Force Academy graduate and married to Ross Rowley, who gets my money. And Bruce Fink is a retired army officer and government civilian and army engineer. And welcome, Aloha. Thanks for joining me. Oh, thank you. You guys are great friends. And you've had great lives, but sometimes things weren't always so great. And that's what we're going to talk about today. The figment that we're going to discuss in depth is recovery and how when you're faced with a really dire diagnosis, you keep that idea of the notion in your head that you're going to recover. So each of you are, each of you are both of you. I'm not an English major, I was an American general, so I don't know. But you both are academy graduates. And we've got pictures of you in that life as you were cadets. And then in the life we'll talk about when you were under treatment for various serious diseases. And that's you, Kim, and here's Bruce at West Point. By the way, I applied to both schools and both schools laughed. But so I went to college instead. But you were both diagnosed in recent years, long enough for me to be a part of it peripherally with very serious forms of cancer. And yet you are here against the odds. And from talking to you, I know that you kept the notion that you'd recover. And that's what I'd like to talk about. So first of all, Kim, if you would tell me about the moment, that moment when you were told what were you told and how did you feel? So I was going in for a routine, really a routine, a doctor's appointment. And there was a young intern and she was doing the exam. And she said, I've got to go get another doctor. And so then the next doctor, Dr. Derek came in and he did a full exam. And then he goes, I've got to go get another doctor. And then he went in and then in came Dr. Dietrich, my oncologist now oncologist. And he introduced himself as the cancer doctor. And, you know, obviously I was floored because I just started a brand new job. Literally the the ink was wet on the paperwork. And I was to start on Tuesday and this was Monday. And I was it was just shock, shock and awe. And I called my then principal and said, you know, I'll understand if you want to go a different direction. And he goes, no, we want you. So that was my that was my moment. And I'm like, OK, I'm in this. Bruce, how about you? What was your moment? Well, I'd just gone back from a trip. Through soul to Sri Lanka to the Maldives, where we're having an environmental conference. And that's a long trip as a veteran of that trip. That's a long trip. A very long trip. And I got back and wasn't feeling well and want to see my doctor. He did blood tests and said, we may have put you in the hospital. So you talk about Doc. So they did all sorts of tests, the infectious disease folks and everybody couldn't find anything. They did a bone marrow biopsy and had came back the day before the 4th of July, 2014. And they said, you have peripheral T cell lymphoma, PTCL. That doesn't sound good. No, one of my doctors called it the bad boy of lymphomas. So we had the 4th of July weekend to Google PTCL and I would encourage you not to do that. Because you find out all the terrible things that could happen. And Laura sent out my wife sent out emails to everybody we knew, saying, does anybody have any experience with this? She got an email back from her cousin in Houston. We've just been here on a trip. First time I'd seen her in about 20 years and said her banker in Houston had been treated for almost the exact same thing at MD Anderson and she encouraged us to come. So that's how the weekend ended, much better than it started. And it did either probably not at the initial diagnosis, but I have to ask, was there a time frame for survival on either of those moments where they said, you know, the normal time frame here is weeks, months, years. Yeah, I know. So for mine, they said that the survival rate and it was for stage three C ovarian cancer. And and I concur with Bruce, don't look up the stats because it's pretty terrifying. And yeah, so, you know, I was going to be lucky if it was a year or 18 months. And, you know, I was so not not on board with. Wow. Wow. So from the way you described your moments, it seems like you started looking for positives right away. Bruce, I'll ask you first, but when when did you because I know you're you're pretty stubborn, actually, unlike me, for example. And I can see you setting your jaw and saying, OK, I'm not going to let this beat me. Did that happen right away? Or did it take a while for you to develop that pigment of recovery? I would say when I got to M.D. Anderson, which was supposed to be for a three day second opinion. You know, by the way, that was a week later. OK. The Monday later after Fourth of July weekend, which is sort of a miracle. You don't get into M.D. Anderson that quickly. But miracles are good because of the type of cancer they said they need to get back here as much as they can. So the doctor examined me and put to my white blood count, which, by the way, was close to zero. So on the airplane, you know, I was COVID protected back in 2014. Back before COVID. And Doctor examined me and said, OK, we're putting you in ICU for 10 days. And then I ended up staying three weeks at M.D. Anderson. And at the end of that, I felt like I couldn't be any place better than where I was. And that's slow. That gave me confidence that I was going to make. Kim, how about you? Was it instantaneous? I'm going to recover or did it have to build like that? Well, Ross and I were actually talking about this last night and back to my experience from the Air Force Academy days, there were people at that time who thought I could never make it at the Air Force Academy. And my sister rides 500 mile bike rides. And she told me early on, you know, this concept of relentless forward motion. And I literally adopted that as a mantra. And I would I got my chemo every Friday, work Monday through Thursday and did it again and went through that 2012. And then in 2014, when it came back again, you know, I'm just like, here we go again. But I just think you choose your attitude and I chose positivity. Well, and one of the things we'll talk briefly about it and encourage everybody to see it. I know that you blogged religiously and you shared your experience and from what you've said in other conversations, that was a part of it. But the name of your blog so people can go read it because it's powerful. Well, thank you. It's www.ovariancancerfighter.com. And I went this the first time I thought, well, I'm done and that's it. I never need to worry about this again. But when it came back in 2014, I felt like it was really important to share my experience with other people so they could see, you know, what I was going through and that it doesn't have to be a death sentence for sure. Well, so I'm going now that we know that you had the figment of recovery, something, some things, some factors had to make it real. And I want to ask you what those factors were. I've got my list that I've shared with you so you shouldn't be surprised. How important a role did people play? Bruce, you know, I'm sure your family, but what role did people play? And what would you say about that? Well, I wouldn't have made it without my life. I mean, plain and simple. To have her as a caregiver. And her meticulousness. I mean, she took notes on every doctor's visit. Still does. There were times that doctors would say something and my wife would say, well, that's not what she said three weeks ago. That look at her and she'd go back at her. And so, yeah, I would say, number one, that caregiver is just absolutely essential. And then family and friends. You know, I had both my kids come visit. My mom came to visit. I had friends in Houston come visit. I had friends from around the country who just happened to be coming through Houston. Come and visit. That's irreplaceable. If you know somebody who's going through something like this and have the opportunity to visit them, do it because it's for me, that was inspiring. And I think that's an area worth for those who aren't directly involved, who don't have the disease or aren't in the family. Sometimes it's difficult. You know, what do you say? And I've got a Facebook friend in an old fighter pilot script, but I don't know him. I know he's a kindred spirit from the posts in this very irreverent group of old fighter pilots. But he's facing a challenge with his wife with very serious cancer. And I only said, I don't know you, but here's a message and good luck with this fight. And I think every little bit helps. But I'm no expert, Kim, you are because you've lived it. Would you echo what Bruce said? And is there anything you'd add? Oh, yeah, 100 percent. Faith, family, friends, co-workers. Of course, you know, Ross, my husband, he was the one that lifted it with your money. He was the one that lifted me up when I was in the pit that, you know, for most of the time, I was just forward motion, forward motion. But there was a moment at Christmas time and I didn't have the energy to get up off the couch. And Ross was the one who lifted me up. You know, he used his mathematical knowledge, which I know you know he has. And he started talking about step function. And, you know, he was talking about, you know, when you're at the at the top and you're getting treatment and it doesn't seem so bad, then it gets worse and it steps down and it gets worse. And when I was at the bottom, he's like, well, this is just a step function and it's going to go up. And, you know, this is the beginning of your upward recovery. And, you know, that I'd say that was the one moment that it was just really, really hard. But the prayers of my congregation, the my co-workers who donated hundreds of sick leave hours to me, you know, and my friends who made meals, it was it was incredible. And it occurs to me as someone again, who's only been on the periphery of situations like this, that those caregivers need your support to because they have to keep their brave face on at home. And they can't do that 24 set. And so regarding faith, I'm going to throw out a hypothesis and you can refute or agree. But it seems to me that faith gives you the faith to fight, that it's the things are not hopeless. But it also gives you the ability to accept an outcome that isn't what you want, that you might lose, that that it is a two sided coin that you need in either event. Yes or no. Simple. Yes or no answer. Oh, amen. Yeah, I adopted faith over fear. Yeah. You know, sort of like a fraction for engineers and Ross, the mathematician. You guys are killing the policy major here. I'm trying to figure that out. I'll Google it. Faith over fear. You've got to believe in something outside of yourself and you can't give into your fear. You just have to believe that you're going to make it. OK, that's probably a great place to take a break. And besides, it's where I told myself I'd take a break. So you take a break, grab your Kleenex if you need it. Viewers, if you don't have Kleenex handy, I well, you got sleeves, right? If you're not in Hawaii, you might have sleeves. So here's what's coming up on figments, the power of imagination. Next in the next show, two weeks from now, I'm going to give my perspective on racial bias and racism in the military. And I'll have Kleenex ready. It's going to just be what I've what I believe. And I believe in our country and I believe in equality. So tune in for that. And then imagining the checkered flag. Honey, I bought a race car that's kind of self descriptive. I have a great friend in Vietnam who I worked with in US Vietnam Reconciliation and we'll talk about that. And then the famous Ross, who's got more mentions than anybody in this show. Well, talk about how his mathematical skills helped encourage Major League Baseball to employ instant reply. All right, so now back to our topic at hand recovery. You guys recovered and you've been through this once because of the reoccurrence, Kim. So I'm not going to ask you first. Bruce, I'll ask you when you go for your periodic check. How do you feel? Are you scared? Are you determined? What's the dealio? I go to a local oncologist and it depends on, you know, how the test go a month, two months. And then I'm supposed to go every year to MD Anderson. I didn't go last year because of COVID. But I never have any apprehension as I look forward to those visits. I always try to do, especially when you go to the mainland, to MD Anderson to try to visit, you know, my mom and other families and Laura's family and things like that. And so make it more than just about going in for a checkup because, you know, it could be some place where you get bad news, but I just I never go in with that expectation. I'm remembering back if I look like I'm pondering something, it's because I'm pondering something. I remember back to when my folks were both in their last days and my mom had throat cancer, my dad had emphysema, lifelong smokers stop near the end, but not soon enough. And now that I think about it, listening to you, Bruce, they did that, too, they they were in the process of dying and they knew it and their diagnoses were very dire. But they never just went for treatment. In fact, they they made a point to do everything they could. Not a big fan of the term bucket list, but they didn't let their lives be consumed by their disease, which was good. Kim, your thoughts on going in for the next checkup, especially having been through more bad news? Well, I think for me, one thing is that I realized I couldn't put life on pause and we made the trip it with our good friends, Dan and Ellen, to France and really started to make that effort to to do those things that you want to do, get out there, do the traveling that you want to do. I just think there is that sort of feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop. You know, I felt that on and off. But again, you just have to move forward and believe that remember the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and they activate. I'm ready to activate my, you know, my network again has needed. We have a question from a viewer that is a good segue and something we're going to talk about because in its very period specific, if you will. And the question is, what advice would you give to people who got diagnosed with cancer during covid and are stuck alone at home? Because covid does kind of tear at our social fabric. And the social fabric was important, both of you. So, Kim, I mean, that's a tough question. I don't know if there is an answer. Yeah, no, I have I have some good answers. In fact, of course, I've had friends read. I have friends that have reached out to me and said, my friend just got diagnosed last September, last summer. And that network, there's an ovarian cancer network and there's there's online cancer networks everywhere. We have virtual support groups for women's cancers that I'm part of reading blog posts, connecting on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and Zoom. That's been it's been like the bonus of all of the pandemic is that this technology, things that you never stopped thought possible, like having astronaut Susan Helms pop in for a chat are now possible. And so, right? Yes, she was amazing. Oh, my gosh, and she's coming to talk to my students soon, too. So wow, that's exciting. But yeah, so I, you know, I would suggest that get involved with those online networks. They're strong, they're powerful. I've been messaging friends that are going through active chemo right now and just spreading that positive positivity. And and you know, you mentioned faith, one of my favorite Bible verses is with great power comes great responsibility. You know, it sounds like the Spider-Man quote, but actually does Bible, Luke 1248. And in because we're survivors, we have that responsibility, I think, to pay it forward and to share and to be there that we can be helpful to people that are going through the same thing. Because you're survivors, you have the responsibility. Bruce, anything else? Covid? I would agree. Yeah, there's a lot of trauma. You can hear from a society in the hard part when you first get diagnosed is getting those connections with people who have been through it. And I've had numerous people come to me and the best advice that I give to everybody, no matter what is, get to the best place you can, the type of cancer you have is going to be possible. And that's not as easy during Covid, but still, especially now, more possible and get as much connections with people who've been through it, ask for help. You know, to paraphrase big rules, never miss the opportunity to ask for help because there are people out there you just don't know. And you have to recognize, I think, again, going back to my parents' experience that you can have great doctors in your personal care network at home forever, but they don't know everything. And when my mom was diagnosed with throat cancer, he was a little stubborn, again, so unlike me. And but he just drove and drove and drove to find an alternative approach from what his very good doctors offered him. And instead of two months, she got two years and 10 months and they were good years and 10 months. I was going to ask, but I'll let the viewers ponder it instead because I'm going to ask you more about what your current segments are in a second. But Survivors Guild is a real thing and people have it. So you are the outliers. You beat the odds. However, the odds are odds for reason. Ask the math major, right? So it has to be a little difficult when you run into friends or family who have lost a loved one who didn't beat the odds. And so I'll let the viewer ponder and think about what you do in either side of the situation. But let's talk about figments. What's your current figment? First, we got a picture of you in a half your time post recovery. And that had to be a great moment. Yeah, I was at the Honolulu Airport coming back from MD Anderson, mostly with people from my office. Where are your masks? Where are your masks? Oh, yeah, before COVID. Yeah, but I got eight hundred hours of donated from government service, eight hundred hours, which completely covered the six months that I was out of war. You are a government civilian at the time. Let me explain for viewers who might not get that. That means his in order to get paid. He had to take leave and the government has the capability of folks who can help somebody in that kind of situation by giving up their own free time. And, you know, all treasure are free time, I think. And eight hundred hours is a lot of free time. So what's your current figment? Current figment, that's the question. Giving back, I've been involved in Rotary International for 20 years. We have a sister club relationship with Hiroshima, Japan. Our club is the Rotary Club of Pearl Harbor. And you think of it sort of like bookends in World War Two. I mean, they attacked us on Pearl Harbor Day and we bombed them in Hiroshima. And yet we've come together goodwill and better friendships for peace. And that's a powerful thing. Women involved in something called Young Life, which is a non-denominational group that helps mostly troubled teenagers. A lot of them, you know, single parent kids and don't have a lot of chance at life. And we have volunteers that go on and help them. You've been given this extra time and you're going to make the most of it by giving back. You can tell we're getting to the end of the show. And I want to give Kim a chance to talk about what your figment is right now. There you are. Great picture of a great family. Yeah, so this was us at Niagara Falls. And this was part of my renewed enthusiasm for travel, which hopefully we'll be able to start doing again this summer. Of course, you know, I'm still continuing to write in the blog. We have a local ovarian cancer support network that I'm part of. Ovarian cancer survivor or fighter dot com, right? Yes, ovariancancerfighter.com. Yes, and I actually made sure all the widgets were updated. And I've been I've been focusing to on, you know, progress, not perfection of working on, you know, my healthy, healthy diet and trying to get those daily blueberries in so I can be smarter and think as well as Ross does. And then, you know, I'm continuing to teach and I love, love, love my students. And the same thing as Bruce said, my co-workers who didn't even know me, because this was in 2012. And then again in 2014 to start the next day. Yeah, both times donated leave to help me out. And just just a huge heart and ohana here. And, you know, I think if we have to activate the network again, we will do it and move forward. Wow. Well, thanks for sharing your stories in such a personal way. And what would Fig do? Fig would, because we always cover that during figments. And Fig would take your lessons and your observations to have faith. And whatever faces us, there are people and things that can get us through regardless of the outcome. So mucho mahalo and I'll see Bruce, you on the golf course soon and Kim, you and Ross together sometime. All right, so thanks for watching, folks. I've got a I've got chicken skin again. I guess I get it about once or twice an episode. We're going to be back. We I'd love your ideas for what you'd like to have us talk about. I'm figments. And I'd really like you to be excited that figments on reality will start on 24 May or their bus. But the the new every other week show at 10 a.m. why standard time is certain. But the start date, we'll see how it works out. And that's going to be two things commentary on the events of the day in a non-political nature, because there's enough politics already. And I might do some storytelling because I have some stories. So thanks for watching. Thanks for supporting Think Tech, Hawaii and Aloha.