 Welcome back, get still the breakfast right here on Plus TV, African, that was said for a second conversation, of course, we started things off by looking at low voter turnout. But let's move on to the violence, the violence and voter suppression, which marred last Saturday's governorship and state House of Assembly elections. No fewer than 17 people were reported dead or killed in various acts of electoral violence in Delta State, Lagos State, River State, Cross River State, Niger State, Aquabomb State or Shum State and Benway State as violence, sympathy, disenfranchisement, voters marred Saturday's governorship and state House of Assembly elections. Despite the security architecture, the Lagos State Police Command and other agencies supposedly put in place sponsored hoodlums overrun, overrun the state as they unleashed violence on voters and officials of the Independent National Electoral Commission. These talks run amok, unchecked, backed by local militia, local touts, sometimes local traditional rulers, the hoodlums brutalized, maimed voters who were not out to vote for a particular party. While three people were supposed or suspected to have been killed in different parts of Lagos State including a 68-year-old man who was allegedly killed at a polling unit, hundreds of others including celebrities were brutalized with their property destroyed before they were prevented from voting. Another identified suspected hoodlum was also failed killed by a security agent after he allegedly snatched ballot papers at Star Timer State, Jamtok, Ago Palace Way. However, the Lagos State Police Commissioner Ido'u on Warhua also has come out to debunk a social media report that a thug was shot dead in a polling unit saying there was no such incident in Lagos State. Before the elections, the chairman of Lagos State Parks and Garages Committee, M. C. Luomo, as is popularly known, had openly warned opponents of the Progressives Congress in Lagos State to stay away from the polls, stay at home and not come out to vote. A statement the police public relations officer, first headquarters, Niger police, Abuja described as a mere joke in an interview a night before the election. Who polls at this point to introduce, I guess, who analyzed this issue, talking about violence and voter suppression that marked Saturday's elections. Honorable Dr. Oshina Waibraim, it's a public affairs analyst, he joins us via Zoom in Lagos. Dr. Oshina Waibraim, thank you very much for your time. You're welcome, thank you so much, my brother. Before the presidential, but before we even go into a discussion, I'd like a team to just roll the tape and maybe we'll start with that start time estate Agro Palace we wear. Some hoodlums came out to chase voters away, hitting them with sticks and chairs and all that. I even saw a woman who was trying to escape for their life. And we'll move from that. After that, we'll play another video where the residents fought back, someone to bring dogs, you know, some building sticks and stones to chase away the thugs. So maybe can we roll the tape please? Look at him. That is the situation that we have been entitled or we have been in the latest notes. We have been organizing for at least elections 2015, 2019. We have a designated police unit designated by INEC called VGC Park. And we came here this morning, as we normally do, to write our names down and get our numbers so that we can vote. Then after we informed that no that we are not going to be voting here, we have set this place up. You can see the canopies, you can see everything, trying to make it better than it was on the 18th, for the presidential election, forget what day that is. And then we're told that it's going to be happening at the gate. We went to the gate. What are you doing here? And they said no, that we're going to be voting at the gate. And we were not asked by whose authority. When was this changed? Because on the INEC portal, it is still designated VGC Park as the polling unit. So it's illegal to set up a park also. Following the events of the last presidential election, people were suspicious, emotional, upset and concerned. And so we had back and forth with the INEC officials and ultimately the REC came to the site and is here presenting and have accepted that we should use the site that we always use, which is where we are standing on now. The question is, we haven't started voting now. It's almost two o'clock and we understand that they want to stop voting by seven p.m. according to reports from the REC. So we're a bit concerned about that. But that's where we are. All right, Dr. Shinawo, you've seen the videos, the last two you saw, the first was Olumdeapata, former chairman of the Nigeria Bar Association, who is a resident of Victoria Garden City where there were some incidents. Another one was the governorship candidate of AADC. We'll talk about VGC in a bit. But before we go to that, we saw, as it was in the presidential election, in the governorship election, prior to the election, we saw the police coming out to show, in a show of strength. We saw the pictures on the front pages of national dailies, the military and all that. Where are all these operatives? We had the police saying that 400,000 security operatives will be deployed, even though we know the police strength in this country is no more than 300,000, or just over 300,000. We saw civil defense operatives on the front pages of papers in a full kit with rifles and riot protection equipment. So where were all these security operatives? Those mutuals that we just watched was pathetic, contempt and uncalled for. First, I will address the first footage, the timeline estate in Okota. I will condemn both sides for the estate residents to go, to use the law, to refuse to use the law, the tools of the law to address the issue by taking laws into their hands. It's condemnable. It's uncivilized. We expect those people who live in such estates to be much more educated to know that using brutal force or killing anybody in their estates is a criminal offence under Nigerian constitutional and legal state law. However, all these abnormalities are caused by Nigerian police, who are inefficient, who are unprofessional in terms of election malignment. I think the hygiene needs to resign, and I will call for the hygiene to resign, not the commission of police now. If we have been mobilized by, according to the National Security Advisor, to prepare for an election over 24 months ago and deployment of officers to notable sports like River State, like Carnot, like Lagos, and you are seeing all this kind of massive, you know, violence, I'm not going to attach it to any party. Labor parties are prepared, PDP also are prepared, you know, APC and the rest of them. You can imagine this footage is very distressed. The estate residents, they have their tools, they have their ammunitions, including, you know, dogs to attack anybody. I want to ask this estate residents to tell us what, what, what, what, what evidence do they have to know who is Woodlands and who is not Woodlands, who lives in the estates and who does not live in the estates for them to go up in harm, having sticks, machetes, dogs, rocks, to the extent of killing anybody, this is highly condemnable. However, we need to extend the conversation. 2023 election has come and gone now. What is the next plan? Hynek has their fair share, you know, Nigerian security architecture has already collapsed and which we have been calling for, for states to have their state police, which I believe Ashiraju will do this time around, will take some brutal decisions, for states to have at least a minimum or, you know, extensive autonomy in terms of, you know, economy, security, architecture, and the likes. So this is definitely sad for Nigeria. It's a sad day for Nigerians to be, you know, viewing in this kind of, you know, vicious footage of people deliberately with rocks, with planks, dogs attacking, if they are here Woodlands, there is process to undo such character through the law. And it's so sad for me to see this. You can imagine if you have the jungle ones, they are 13, 14, 15, 16 or 17. Sorry to interrupt. I'm so sorry. The two videos were meant to air so that you could have a proper view of what happened at that start times state. Unfortunately, the first one has not been uploaded and waiting for it to be. But the first video, which I hope we can air as soon as possible, quickly as possible, will show you that the people, the estate residents were acting in self-defense because these dogs came out to attack them for simply exercising their franchise. They got into the estate and were beating everybody, including women, including women. And the particular person on the floor, who I don't know if it's alive or not, actually carried a chair and was beating a particular woman who could have lost her life. So would you blame the residents for pushing back? I would like to see the, I would like to, I'm giving my judgment and you know, I'm giving my judgment, I expect to see the other footage then we can take it from them. However, you are not supposed, nobody have, you don't monopoly of killing another person. But the residents didn't kill this person from what we're told. And of course, the police have come out to say they're not aware of anything. But there's a video that shows a conscience being fired, you know, when the residents came out, I think they had some mopos in the estate and they came and fired some shots. So the narrative is that the bullets from the mopos gun may have led to the death of this thug. But the police have said they are not aware that anyone was shot and killed. You know, so we were yet to get information, did he die? If he died, was it from beating or was he shot and killed? I mean, so in such an instance, when My brother, this footage you are showing me shows that there is a physical attack. No, I'm telling you, yeah, I'm telling you, I've seen this video, my son showed me this No, I'm telling you, we have footages we can show you. Like I said, when I was introducing and asking the question, I told you about two videos I wanted you to comment on. The one where the thugs came into the estate so we could see the beginning and then the one where the residents pushed back so we can see the end. Fortunately, one was shown to you, the other wasn't shown. And I'm saying there's a third video that shows police officers or policemen in the estate coming with their guns and shooting. You know, maybe they have to chase the thugs away or dispense the crowd, I do not know. So let's talk about the build up. But before we talk about the build up, I asked the question earlier. We see a lot of show of strength by security agencies. I remember even before the presidential election, we saw a motorcade of military men, of soldiers moving on some streets they go around doing show of force in river state, not just the army, even the navy went on the road walk, you know, in the show of strength. And but during the election, where do they disappear too? You know, that's the question I want to ask you, you know, the Nigerian police force, who is the lead agency to, you know, for any election or exercise are failed, hopefully, they are nowhere to be found. Look at river state, the PDP government there or the hortic government there is just, you know, molesting voters. Look at what is going on also in the south west. You know, the Nigerian police has failed. All this show of force that you have been talking about will be seen this is 1993. All this show of force coming out to display some, you know, old gadgets in their in their harmony. And on the election day, where the Nigerian people needs them to hack decisively, man all the polling units, all the sports, they are nowhere to be found. So I expect that with the huge sum of money that was deployed to Nigerian police and other sister agency, they need to be questioned. We need to ask them what is going on. We need to talk to them. Where are you guys? The Nigerian citizen, the Nigerian people have the right, the constitutional right to be protected. And they are left without protection. And you come out to do show of force, show of force for what? So what happens, you know, like, where are they? Where do they go to? We know the police are I'm not I'm not a member of police force. That's what we are calling me while at the job, you know, with the spokesperson to come and explain to us, where are you, man? You are doing show of force around the street of Lagos in Abuja in Kano in Cardinal in reverse state, across several states, and on election day, most of the police officers has gone back to their bedroom and to their wife to sleep. And they will come out and say the federal government is not paying them allowance. Can you imagine that if this is, you can do a polling exercise on this topic, you will find out that most Nigerians are dissatisfied with the Nigerian police. And they called it, I think the suggestion that we have to make and we'll do the press conference is that the Nigerian law should not offend Nigerian police as a lead agency in Nigeria. It has to be inclusive. All the agencies of security and protection of this country has the right to protect Nigerian citizens on election day. This of the, this extent to INE should go back to the drawing board. 2027 is just around the corner. When you finish an election cycle immediately after releasing with the results, there has to be a committee to start the planning committee, a public policy committee, to commence immediate planning. We thank God the IRF work is today. A lot of people could see what's going on, but the security in the country is zero. I'm grateful that you can confirm, I can confirm. Do we need some reforms? Do we need some reforms? The police officer was sleeping on duty. The guy was long gone, sleeping, but I can't verify that. You know, this internet, this TV, I was brought into my notice, but I was just laughing at this guy. Dr. Shinwo, I have, just to, you know, you've talked about the police. You also included the Nigerian armed forces, the military, the army, sorry, the air force, and even the navy, you know, that we saw do a road walk for a show of strength in Port Hacod, but I do not know where they were on election day. So where do these people disappear? Because the police alone, they said they are not enough and they need some assistance. That's why we had probably the amount, a number of policemen deployed 400,000, or a number of security officers deployed 400,000. So I wonder where the army disappears to, okay, and the navy and all these other people. But let's talk about the police. In some states, in some states, the politicians have said that their parties, opposition parties now, are not competing against the ruling parties alone. They are competing against also the police. In other words, the police have now become an actor, an active participant in the politics. We've seen videos of policemen in collaboration with party officials or thugs, steel-ballard boxes, steel-ballard papers, provide protection for thugs when they are chasing away voters. In fact, in a quorum state in the presidential election, some soldiers, these are the few soldiers we heard about, apprehended a boss filled with INEC officials and policemen and other men in fake military uniform. So it's been proven that the police are active in the politics on election day. What is going on? Why don't we have a police that are neutral and are just there to keep the law, rather than break the law? Dr. Ishinowo. It is, you know, the answer is very simple. This is no news to us. You know, if you have been watching election in this country, you know, you will know that let's even take the one that is closer, 1999 to date. Police has been alleged to be the major actor in nearly electoral violence, assisting, you know, one party or the other to manipulate the process. You understand? And what I expect the government or the National Security Advisor to do is to develop a background check on all these officers that is mounting all the state. You can imagine, you will say, in the river state, for instance, you are deploying, you are deploying three AIGs to a state. And at the end of the day, you find out that a particular party will come out where the party is losing. It will tell the boys to go there, you know, and destroy the voters, burn the ballot boxes, because they know that AINEP will cancel that polling unit. The pay you voters definitely will be in the right to vote will be suppressed. So these are government policies. These are public policies that has to put in place to ensure that any police man, any police officer found wanting, either by independent, you know, police monitoring or compliance units, will be dealt with publicly. Because from the research, most of the police officers have the least that the only time they can get extra funds, cheap funds, make huge money is during the election. And mostly they go for the highest bidder. Everybody must be patriotic in this country, irrespective of the political affiliation you are having. You are Nigeria first, and you need to protect your country. So the police system, the system of policing in this country is corrupt. You can imagine, you go to the United Kingdom, you go to Canada, at the end of the day when they are conducting the election, you find that there is no single police officer on guard, on duty. Everybody goes in and votes. So AINEP needs to help the game. They brought out the big vivas, vivas this time around. By 2026, Nantia should be able to vote. Once you accredit yourself, the system to bring out all the parties involved. And you press the party you want immediately. Immediately you are accredited. It goes into the system's trade. There's no manual accolation. But Dr. Sinawa, sorry to interrupt sir. Yes, okay, AINEP needs to up his game. But the fact is, AINEP right now had up the game. And all people sat down and said, okay, let us see where people will vote and where the voting strength of the opposition is in the presidential election, in legacy, for instance. Okay, we've seen the presidential election. This is where the voting strength was. We know we can't lose a governorship election because we have only one legacy. Now we're going to target these areas where the opposition has higher votes and make sure people don't vote. And that was a strategy. So if we have electronic voting, that was a strategy. You can't confirm that. Sir, even a youngster, a young chapuja sees, we know that's a strategy because Dr. Sinawa, we saw talks going. This is not a talk of luck. Can you mention the party that is suppressing one another in most of their popular... No, we don't know. Dr. Sinawa, we don't know. I don't know. You don't know. I don't think even the public knows. So let's not go there. I'm sure nobody knows who's suppressing who. But I'm saying that we have seen systematic, coordinated, plan-targeted attacks on voters in particular areas where particular parties have a voting strength. And the attacks have been against the voters who are mostly supporting a particular party because we have reporters on the field. I'm not sitting here talking, saying what I do not know. We have reporters on the field. So when we're talking, we're not talking because in ignorance, we know what is going on. But let's not go there. Let's not go there. Let's go there. I'm saying the point I'm making, no, no, no, no. Sir, please let me learn. Let me learn. I just want to ask my question, Dr. Sinawa. Even if we have electronic voting, it will pay into its significance if a politician can order thugs in a state to go to the areas where it feels the opposition have more voters and chase them away. If we chase them away, who is going to do the voting electronically? You know what? Everything still boils down to, you know, let me tell you the ingredients of, you know, politics. Politics is all about scheming. It's a game. It's about me coming out to tell you that here I'm in charge. It's about you telling me that, Dr. I'm sorry, I'm in charge. You understand? It's always a game. Look at United States. The Trump side will tell you that all that democratic party has been doing is to suppress and to take him out of the way. It also is coming out with different tactics to ensure that he's on the ballot next year and he wins by the presidency. So politics is always a game anywhere in the world. It's always a game. Now, what the government, who is going to be the referee, is to ensure that both sides are protected under the law and ensure that no one will have a doubting advantage than the other. It's always a game. That's why I'm asking, who is the party? Are you saying party A suppressing B? Are you saying party B suppressing B? For instance, in Canada State, Hong Kong so won virtually all the House of Reps, half of the two senators, he won three, he won two. You can imagine the House of Assembly that is going on, not confirmed reports in Canada. The guy is telling anybody in this country that I am in charge of Canada. It's not an incubate governor. I think the last time this guy was a governor was 2007, 2011, and he still has this muzzle, these political ways to muzzle a sitting governor and produce. So if anybody is telling you that there is no progress in the last election, I tell you that person is a liar. There is a huge progress. There is a huge and enormous progress out of the nine sitting governor that contested election in this country. Maybe about three of them return elected. About six out of them are beaten by unknown newcomers. Look at what happened in there. Dr. Shinwo, are you saying that there was no violence in Saturday's governorship and state house or similar elections? The question is that there will always be one including side or the other. But what is the strength of police to capture all these violence? That's the question. Violence was no violence. I can't judge. It's the police that will come out. It's the security. When you say you can't judge, what do you mean, sir? How do you mean you can't judge? I can't say there is a violence anywhere where I voted there was no violence. I went there just, you know, just having a good time. Everybody voted and we go back to their house. Okay, so are you saying that there was no I'm telling you sir, are you saying there was no widespread violence? I'm telling you as a report, as a news person who has reporters around the field in Lagos state and around the country that there was widespread violence. But if you want to tell me in Lagos state, for instance, where we're based. No, no, no, no, no widespread, please. Okay, fine. So, but you're saying that you don't know about other polling centers, you know, or, you know, other polling units and all that, you know, about where you were. So if if I tell you how what's your information that you used to know, judge and say though there was no, we didn't have widespread, you know, I'll give you the statistic. Can I give you the statistic? Please let me learn. Yes, please. Please. I'm very interested. Lagos state has close to over almost about 300,000 300,000 polling units, I guess. So how will you say because there is a strike issue in Ocota, in just a constituency, a state constituency, and you are calling that widespread. In VKC, where voting was, you know, the one down yesterday, there was no issues there. In other places on Saturday, where voting virtually everywhere, I listened to the Commissioner of Police. He said you can't say that's a widespread. And listen to the gentleman who is the Commissioner of Police. So you can't say because there is an issue in Ocota. I'm expecting you to bring other food chains from other locations, like Halimo show, like Bagada, like Kenja, like Parkview, like, you know, Osho Day, where everybody believes it's a hotspot. When you started, I mentioned, Dr. Shino, when you started, when you started, I mentioned Dr. Shino, when you started, I mentioned Surulere, all the way to Osho Day. I mentioned Mal 12. I mentioned Lejibo. I mentioned Bokno. I mentioned Okafa. I mentioned Bola de Osho Day. I mentioned Amor Adoffin, which is a whole local government area. I mentioned Bega. I mentioned Ojo. I mentioned Agility. I mentioned Agopale Sway. I mentioned Ocota. I mentioned Moshe. I mentioned Ligando. I mentioned Bajuleki. Yes, no problem. I mentioned the Bajuleki. I mentioned Ali Mosho. I mentioned Ijegun, Ijesha, Ikeja, Magodo, Ilegushi, Fadei, and there are many areas for all the time I want to go into. And you're telling me you just had a few very limited. You were just reading these on the news. Can you bring evidences like the one you showed on the phone? I'm not just reading these on the news, I have evidence for that. I bring evidences to Nigerian people to see. We have reporters, sir, we have reporters. So, I mean, you're entitled to say what you want to say, which is that we really have a lot of violence in legal state. It was just limited to how many incidents would you say? These are just normal occurrence in political season that you find that there is one scoffing in one place or the other. But you can, in the electoral management system, in risk management, where I am a specialist in, you cannot say because the 1.20 percent of failure of security capture, you can say that is widespread. widespread is not like that. widespread is when the 60 or 50 percent of legal state is captured with violence, physical violence with evidence to prove that there is some physical violence. That is when we can say the Nigerian police has failed. Though we have, I'm using my analogy and the mapping of the entire country. I'm not specifically saying legal state. If you are saying there is, you know, Porta, I got ties are going for last week. So, if that's just even a unhealthy, not even a look at government after 20 look at government. Okay, I see this. All right, we asked him for a video. This made us to air that the before, you know, when he saw those dogs chasing the thugs, you're asking to see what happened before so you could have a fast statement. So, we'll roll that tip and then I'll come back and raise a second guess with this journalist's version. So, sit on the noise. Of course, Kataya lives on the other side. See you soon. See you next time. Dr. Shino, you can see that the guys who were chased in the second video are the ones you can see now who are chasing voters with planks, with sticks, with bottles. In fact, the young man who was seen on the floor in that first video, Dr. Shino, can you hear me, sir? Yes, I can. So you just look at the video, you see him with a chair, and you can see him chasing, you see that he's hitting that woman, hitting some other persons, and now going after, I don't know who he's going after, with that chair, hitting another person. So that's a chap who is on the floor. You can see he's chasing the lady again. So in such an instance, what are the residents, I think that while I introduce our next guest, who is standing by, Mohamed Aguilayu. Can you respond to that? Yes, in a jiffy please. So I can bring in the next guest. Still, this is not widespread. This is just a fracker within the community. Now, where is the Nigerian police? That's the question. That's why I insist that Nigerian police has failed, and that to account to Nigerian people, there are some that have been deployed to Nigerian police for election management as a lead agency in security management of this election. The IG should explain, or it should resign. That is my call. I'm calling on him to resign because it's due for resignation, it's due for retirement. So it should go back home. From the footage you are showing me, no single police. An issue state command has been mobilized to turn us millions of narrants. So who are you supposed to be playing? It's the Nigerian police and the IG, I'm calling on him again to resign and go back home because his retirement is due already and it should be another new guy, an intelligent guy who can manage the security of this country to come to the side of the Nigerian police. So this is a pure failure of security. It will be uncomfortable for you to say you want to alert anybody. So the IG should go back home, it should resign for its monumental failure and balloon promises they have made to Nigeria. It should go back home. We have Mohammed Abdelahi who is joining us now from Senegal. Mohammed Abdelahi I think is in Dhaka, I believe. Can you hear me please? Good morning. Good morning Nigerians. How are you loud and clear? All right. We saw in the days leading up to this government election some individuals come out to tell people not to vote and if they come out, they come out at their risk. Supporters of particular party, opposition parties and members of particular tribes were warned to stay away, stay at home, stay out of Lagos politics. There's a clip or a picture of a tweet that I'd like a production team to put on the air. I don't know if you have that picture of that tweet by Bayo Onanuga. Bayo Onanuga happens to be one of the spokespersons for the People's Democratic Party's, sorry, the All Progressive Congress presidential campaign council. So we saw what MCO Loma put out in the video and then we saw the ethnic coloration that was brought to this particular election. Bayo Onanuga says, and please can we put that tweet on the screen, I sent it some time ago. It says, let 2023 be the last time of Igbo interference in Lagos politics. Let there be no repeat in 2027. Lagos is like Anambra, Imo, any Nigerian state. It is not no man's land, not federal capital territory. It is Yoruba land, mind your business. So this is just capturing some of what MCO Loma was trying to say. What do you think these guys, especially from the All Progressive Congress, who want people not to come out, especially supporters of Labour Party and people who are from the Igbo ethnic group in Lagos, stay at home. Do you think they bear some responsibility, they should bear some responsibility for the thuggery, the attacks that we saw on Saturday? Yes, of course. I'm sorry to say that we are gradually turning into a very lonely society where people can actually come on air, whether via social media or even the traditional media, to issue threats to fellow Nigerians. The last time I checked, I understand that as a Nigerian, whether you are of Ibo, Yoruba, Hausa, you are free, according to the constitution of Nigeria, to live anywhere you so wish to live in any part of Nigeria, and you are granted the powers of association. You are granted the powers to exercise your civic right independently. I mean, you are granted the powers to vote for whomever you like, and you are also granted the powers to be voted for anywhere you choose to be. And that is the beauty of democracy. But it is quite unfortunate reading and experiencing what we call an election back home in Nigeria is really unfortunate. Mind you, this is not to castigate a particular party. That is my little disagreement with you. It cuts across both sides. In fact, all of the parties, what they do is that in their very stronghold, they actually manipulate each other. They try to outsmart each other. They try to make it, they try to stifle opposition in each of their stronghold. So yes, if you take the issue of Lagos particularly, yes, it's quite unfortunate that a particular someone that you might describe as a tout or even someone as a non-state actor wields such power to issue threats to non-indigens, if I may use that word, of Lagos, threatening them not to come out to vote if they are not voting for a particular party. And then it's quite laughable as well that the Nigerian police force will come out to justify or confirm such threats to say it's a joke. I read the comments from the police PPRO, from the headquarters, mentioning the fact that what the allegedly tout mentioned or was saying was a joke. Nigerians should or negotiations should take it as a joke. It's quite funny. There's nothing like a joke when you issue threats to fellow citizens and fellow Nigerians. So I think like you mentioned, it's important that people are brought to vote. It's important that people are made to face the law. It's so important that people, no matter how highly placed they are, are made to face the law. It's important that we come a kind of deterrent for others. Let me give you a little example. It's quite outside of this discussion, but it's quite important. We all understand that just a month ago, there was an earthquake in Turkey and Syria that claimed the lives of more than 50,000 people. And I tell you, in less than two weeks, the government of Turkey fished out contractors who were given the opportunity to build such buildings and there was specification of what they needed to do. They were executed live. It's simple. You don't allow people to take laws into their hands. You don't allow people to become laws over other citizens. It breeds the kind of situation that we have in Nigeria where people can just do whatever they want, they say whatever they want, and they are able to suppress other citizens uncontrollably. So I think like you rightly mentioned, people need to face the consequences of their actions and their talks. Okay, Mohammed, what I was saying was, of course it's widespread in different parties, but I was using legal state as a case study where the call on people not to come out to vote clearly came from one party to other parties. We can't sit here and means words. I'll be being dishonest and lying to say, I don't know the parties. We know who they are. Of course, if we go to other states like in River State, our guest this morning told us that it was the other way. It was the PDP, the supporters, they sent out town criers telling people who would not vote for PDP to stay at home. So I agree in different regions, in different strongholds. So we have a general problem. But in legal state, I mean, it's clear, it's documented. So you are saying that the dramatist personnel who whip up these sentiments are responsible directly for the thuggery in your opinion and they should be arrested. I'll go over to Dr. Oshina Webram. Do you agree with Mohammed that these personalities who say these things and whip up these sentiments telling people not to come out and things will happen to you and all that, that they should be held directly responsible for the thuggery and the attendant effect on the lives of voters? Do you agree with that? Yes, I think I agree with Mr. Mohammed. I will still go back to the failure, the monumental failure of the Nigerian police in terms of intelligent algorithm and, you know, fortress to determine the hard sports, you know, of each state of the federation. For instance, in river states, everybody in this country knows that a particular governor has this, you know, appetite for violence. He has appetite for confrontation. The police and the Nigerian security architectural system should have ensured that such states, such personality is neutralized. You know, river states is a big state. It has a lot of money, and you can imagine when you have power and money in combined, you could do a lot of things. You know, some governors in Nigeria, some states in Nigeria where for nice poverty, they tend to use the boys. They would deliberately not create jobs for them to have something to do so that during the election they would give them stipend. The money they couldn't give them during the first second year, they would start giving them during the third and fourth year into the election. For the boys to retain their, you know, source of income, they would be aggressive to do. But however, the Nigerian police has, you know, how, you know, that is required to capture and forecast, you know, these, you know, occurrences, you know, there was a particular idea that I was talking to. I told him that does Nigeria police even have what they call, you know, risk enterprise? Do they have the public policy, security public policy desk? Do they measure their risk at all? He said in the last 23 years, I mean 24 years of his service, he never had source team. I said, go to the Metropolitan Police Department. They have the risk major committee headed by a professor. In fact, in Nigeria from University of East London. Go to New York Police Department. They measure risk at all time. These are professional in risk control and risk management. Who measure the starting export and bring them, you know, the feedback of the situation of things that is going on in the country. This virtual, I think, I think at this point in time, how do they measure their risk? How do they measure their occurrences that will happen during the elections, like, you know, logistics issue, like technological issues? Doctor, you know, because of time, very quickly, sir, sorry about that, please. Because of time, some part of the country, especially, you know, other Nigerians in legal state, are feeling that, you know, they may not have a stake again in the country. If they will be, we chased away from voting, you know, simply because they are not from that particular part of the country. And I'm sure we can see replicas, like Ibrahim and Mohamed have said, in other parts of the country, where people from other parts, it's not just in legal state. But some are feeling, okay, we don't have a stake in the country anymore. I begin to have to think about taking this secession quite seriously, that this is a talk about the academia and the intelligentsia now of these ethnicities. Now, coming to say, we need to now join this struggle and see how we can just go our way. And how can we navigate that? For me, you know, there is nothing for us to, you know, navigation or intellectual, I don't know how you call it. We need to increase the security, you know, intelligence of the election management system of the country. Do you understand what I mean? So, everything still boils down to what are we doing to mitigate or improve our security system during the election and secession. Okay. Okay. So, what from you, Mohammed? How do we navigate the feelings, you know, the divisions that have a reason from the elections to ensure that Nigerians have a sense of belonging? I think it's quite simple. There are two things for me that I feel are sacrosanct for Nigeria and Nigerians and that is peace and unity. And by peace and unity, I mean everyone should be allowed to exercise his or her right as extra in the constitution. So, and that also means that if it means if it is important, you know, for us to disintegrate because we have on this issue of yeah, we needed to we needed unity and then we keep seeing divisiveness every now and then. Not only on the part of election, please. It's not just elections that makes Nigerian divisive. There are so many other issues that we continue to encounter divisiveness among Nigerians. So, it's very important that we sit down as a nation, as a people to review our unity. If it's better for us who are separate ways, I think for peace to reign, I think it's an option that we need to look at. Alright. We're out of time, sir. Please. Please. Thank you so much, gentlemen. We have to go. Honorable Dr. Ashilewe Bryan public affairs analyst and, of course, Muhammad Abdulayih, who joined us from Dakar, Senegal. Thank you for your time. My name is Kofi Bartels. The news at 9 is up next. Return tomorrow with more on the breakfast.