 going to wait a few seconds. Okay. So now we are live. Hey, you guys, what is up? My name is Yuri Choi and you guys probably saw me the other day. Um, so it's good to be back here and on behalf of a site to go, I am here today having a conversation with a very special guest. She's joining us all the way from Singapore. Her name is Sabrina. We and she is joining us from Com Collective Asia. So hello, you guys. Good to see you. Um, so today we're going to be having a really powerful conversation about normalizing mental health challenges as well as mental health disorders and what that could really look like. And we have a very, very courageous, beautiful conversation ready for you today. So thank you so much for joining in. And I'm going to just bring on our special guest and her name is Sabrina. Hi, Sabrina. How are you? Hi, I'm great. It's, uh, you know, really, well, it's not very early in the morning, but I'm not a morning person and it's a Monday where I am. So I am good for a Monday. Yeah. You're joining. Oh, I know it's Monday morning. It is. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for joining us. I know I was really psyched to, to join the show. So, and, and it's really great. I'm excited to connect with the community that you have. And I've been following Psych2Go as well. So it's, it was really cool for me to have this opportunity. Yeah. You know, what's really amazing is, um, it's so beautiful to have this mission that's so like driven from our heart. And then we get to come together with that one mission or having these conversations from all over the world, which is incredible. So it's such an honor to have you here today. And Sabrina, um, so from what I understand, um, you know, first of all, you are here today really wanting to share openly about your beautiful journey around your mental health challenges that you've had. And it also sounds like you have created this beautiful organization, Com Collective Asia, which really has a mission to normalize mental health specifically more in Asia and of course everywhere. But, you know, specifically in Asia and oh my gosh, what a cool mission. Because I just was just in Korea, so I, I get it. I really do. So I wanted to ask you, share with us a little bit about who you are, how you got started on this journey. And as much as we'd like to share around your own journey around mental health. Okay. So where do I even begin? Um, so, um, yeah, my journey and then like all the way through to, to my elective, right? Um, Com Collective Asia, get birth fit. Like, what was your journey? So we move to that. Yeah, for sure. So maybe I can share more about how Com Collective Asia happened, right? And then we'll take a step back and I can share more about all of the stuff that I've experienced before that to, you know, to kind of convert to this thing. So, um, for Com Collective Asia, I actually started this during the 2020 lockdown last year during, um, yeah, in the midst of the pandemic, one week into the Singapore lockdown, um, yeah, mental health was actually considered a non-essential, uh, non-essential service. So that actually meant that with my bipolar disorder, I wasn't able to see my therapist. I couldn't see my psychiatrist. And therefore something had to be done. So, um, I called two other friends and they, um, and basically, you know, from home we figured out, okay, the best thing that we can do right now is to figure out how we can help our community, um, find ways to cope mentally with the whole pandemic, right? So then, um, yeah, we just called our people that we knew in the mental health space to come together, um, and teach other people how to, uh, you know, how to meditate, how to journal. We are also talking about like mentally, how we're feeling. Um, and that kind of gave rise to Com Collective Asia. So it was, it was meant as a site project during the pandemic. And we were like, yeah, we just got to do this for the community. And then, um, fast forward to today that's become my full-time job. And I am working on normalizing mental health conversations every day. So yeah, it's been great. Um, but yeah. Yeah. We liked a little bit about your story, your story around, you know, uh, how, you know, being diagnosed and then working through the recovery of, um, you know, having bipolar. And I personally can only imagine that was probably a very courageous conversation that you got to have, especially being in Asia. So if you don't mind, please share with us a little bit about that. Yes, sure. Uh, wow. Okay. So my journey with mental health has, um, it's been a while. So right now I'm, how old am I? I'm 31 this year. And, um, my first so-called brush with, uh, with anything to do with my mental health was really when I was 11. Um, that was the first time I had somewhat a depressive episode. You know, I was, I was thinking of like suicide and things like that. Um, but fast forward to around the time I was in my early 20s, so about 23 to 25, I was kind of going through phases of, um, yeah, depression. And then I'll be like, okay, I'll get on antidepressants and go for therapy and then go back up again. But then we then realized that I was shooting way back up, like really high up. And I was, you know, experiencing all the, um, the symptoms of bipolar, which meant I wasn't sleeping. I was super social, making lots of friends. That's how I have like so many connections on my social media. And I'm like, who are these people? Um, I also, uh, you know, I wasn't eating very much. I was, um, starting like 10 new projects at a time. So that was like, okay, really strange. And I actually had a couple of friends who said, Serena, there's something up here. This is not normal you. But I was like, nah, you know, this is me and you don't appreciate who I am. You know, this is part of my personal and professional growth. But hey, every time I hit a new high, I kept going down lower. Right. And while I was initially diagnosed with major depressive disorder, um, I took, I looked back at my history of, you know, ups and downs and then did a lot of Googling. And I realized that it was not, um, it was probably not, um, depression alone. Right. Um, so I think it was around five years ago where I got properly diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And this, I also learned that there's lots of different types. So we can also go into that if you want. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so, um, you know, for you, what did that feel like? And what was, did you personally face any stigma around this initially? Oh, yeah. I mean, come on, even like with, like, stigma is a huge one, right? There's stigma on so many different levels. But I think the main one that people face is really on the societal level, which then translates into how the people around you, um, respond to you or react to you when you, you show signs of mental illness or any like mental health difficulties. So, um, I guess earlier when I was still going through like my depressive episodes, um, and those were the really, really tough times because I would refuse to get out of bed. I found it so difficult to, to find the motivation to work and even to like write to a, an email was like super difficult, right? Like four sentences, I'll be like, what will people think of me? You know, though I sound smart, I sound really dumb right now. And I would share all of this with like my friends and family and, uh, you know, my mom and dad were like, Hey, you know, just sleep it off. Tomorrow will be fine. You can sleep it off. I knew that I could get help through therapy or through medication. And in Singapore, it's really difficult if you do it the private way, right? That's, uh, like, I didn't have insurance. I covered it. So, um, so that was like, mom, can you help me, uh, you know, cover my, my fees and all that. And she's like, you don't need it. It's okay. You just got to work harder or just be patient, you know? Or like, oh, and the other thing was, uh, hey, you're not crazy. You don't have to go for these. You don't have to seek help for your mental health, right? It's not a real thing. So yes, I mean, stigma is very real. Um, and even through my, yeah, it's just like, I have so much to say about it. I don't even, and like, yeah, like kind of get help from friends as well. Yeah. Yeah, that. I mean, it's not a real thing. I think that's the thing that affects a lot of people. Um, you know, people, you know, when you're back hurts, you can be like, Oh, my back hurts or if you have a cold, you can be like, I have a cold. But like when you have mental health concerns, sometimes people, especially if they're not too aware of that realm, they might brush it off. Like, Oh, that's not a real thing. Right. And I mean, that'll get, yeah. And a lot of people on psych to go have expressed their concerns about opening up to their own parents or, um, you know, feeling invalidated around what they, what message do you have for them? You know, what would you share with them if they're moving through something like that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's incredibly isolating, right? When you are going through something that people around you either do not understand or do not try to understand. Right. Um, so it's really hard. I think it depends on the individual's circumstances, but what helped me a lot. And what I've realized over time is that, you know, you're really not alone. And even if like, you can find people in your own social circle that will understand there will be someone out there somewhere online that you will be able to understand you and will be able to resonate with you. Right. And, um, honestly, in my own journey, um, I found it really hard to get full, like, I guess, empathy from my friends and family. Um, I do have like one or two friends who, who understood it and like has had, um, their own personal experiences, but, um, in my journey, I found that my best friends or best support, um, was really my therapist and psychiatrist. So if possible, um, and if you're able to do it yourself, um, go for, go seek professional help or find a support group online or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, as you started to become a collective Asia, like, what was your vision? Like, what would be an ideal world for you around this topic? Like, what would that look like? Oh, wow. Okay. Um, it's so it's evolved. Initially, we were like, yeah, we want to normalize mental health conditions so that, you know, we can prevent like the worst case scenario, but now it's evolved into, into something a bit more positive, right? A bit more optimistic. And the dream that we're working towards is really to, to get everyone to be proactive with their mental health so that they can all strive for good mental health, whether or not they have a mental illness. Yeah. Yeah. You know, in, in the work I do as a coach, um, one of the things that I am passionate about is like, they, people get to be vulnerable. People get to be like open and authentic because I think that itself can be really healing. And it sounds like you guys have a similar message around mental disorders. Um, what message do you have for people who want to be more open, who want to be more vulnerable, but they are scared of that stigma or the backlash or feeling invalidated? Like, because, you know, Bernay Brown talks about this, right? Like how the initial thing that shows up right after we do become vulnerable is actually shame. So like a lot of people don't even allow themselves to get there because they're scared of shame, scared of what people would think. Like what, what is your, you know, advice for those kind of people or anyone who wants to be more open? And it's, and the cool thing is I don't think this is even about just mental health. It could be about your sexual orientation. It could be about something that's like real to you, but you were scared to talk about whatever that might be. Like what message do you have for people who might be in that place? And basically how to be more vulnerable, right? It's really hard, right? Because I think it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable because you're putting yourself out there, you know, and you're showing all your weaknesses, all your flaws, right? And that's what you're very familiar with. You know, I, it's my way of dealing with it because it took me a long time before I got comfortable enough to talk about my, this like the secret I had, right? I had my, I had my mental health condition. I don't want to tell anybody about it. But finally one day I just said, Hey, you know what? This, I'm sick of hiding it. I'm sick of pretending that, you know, I'm all okay. I don't, I don't need to go for my therapy. I was like, you know, going behind my bosses back, sneaking in my therapy sessions on weekdays and seeing my psychiatrists. I'm like, yeah, I'm, yeah. Anyway, I was just really tired of pretending, right? And finally I just did it. I wrote my own blog post and I just talked about all this crap I went through. And, yeah, and after that what happened was that I had so many, so many, many, many, many people just come forward to me and just shared their personal stories, right? So I think it's really about us finding the courage to do it, to just be open about it, and finding the right means of platform for us to, to share, right? So some of us may not be ready to share openly in public. So I did it through a blog post, right? How, I can't like take it that, you know, it's still up there somewhere. But what we can do is, you know, maybe just finding our own little ways, our ways to open up to people who we feel safe with, who we can trust. And if it's not someone that's a personal friend or family member, then that could be a therapist. Yeah, yeah. There's lots of safe ways, yeah. Yeah, so it sounds like what you're, let me know if I'm hearing you right. It sounds like you're, you feel like, you know, seeing a therapist or getting professional help of some sort around this is almost creating that safe place for them to, you know, practice being vulnerable until they can go out there and be to that on their own. Is that right? Yeah, exactly. I think that's exactly yet. And I think that's the point of therapy, right? That's, if you can't break down there, then where are you going to break down? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, ideally not on your own in your bed, but like, yeah. Yeah, so let me ask you, one of the obviously cool things that's come out of you being vulnerable is like this birth of this, you know, amazing organization. What other personal benefits have you had, even though it was scary, even though you might have felt like, you know, a tinge of shame right after because that's what happened right after birth. Of course. Yes. But you genuinely look pretty good. Like you look like, you know, you're on a really purposeful path. And it sounds like there's been a lot of benefits of you of coming out or really sharing your journey and really talking about your authentic experience. So what's been the benefit in doing that? I think the biggest benefit has really been able to like, it's a me being able to live truly to myself, like living authentically, not having to, you know, kind of pretend that I'm, you know, feeling crappy on this day and just being able to live my real self. That's really been the best takeaway. And I am able to do this both on a personal level, because I don't have to like tiptoe around this mental illness anymore. And I can also do this professionally, because, you know, with working and working with mental health, I have to walk the talk. So I have to be accountable to myself. Right. So so that's been great. Because hey, I can now go for therapy and just say guys, I am out for therapy right now, be right back. Right. So that's been great. I love it. Yeah. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. And you guys, if you guys are watching this and you I would imagine that there's someone out there watching this and like crying because like for the first time someone is saying what you've been thinking about or what you've been wanting to do or say. So if there's any questions or anything that you guys would like to share about what's coming up for you, please, please, you know, let us know. Please share with us. Yeah. Thank you guys. You made me feel better. You're the best. Thank you. You're the best. And my good friend has my bowler. Yeah. And you know, I think it's interesting because it's one of those things that more people talk about it. I don't know if you had a similar experience, but remember when my, you know, my family was going through a really hard time because my dad was diagnosed cancer. I thought I was so alone on that journey. It was heartbroken and and I was going through my own like, you know, journey of mental health challenges. But I remember like once I started to share with all these people out of nowhere, like my some friends or people I haven't talked to, they start sharing their stories. And then you realize no one's actually alone in anything. It's just like no one's talking about the real things, right? Oh, yeah. I'm kind of curious, like what's been your experience in that when you start to share like did you have stories like that when people start to share like, oh my gosh, I never told anyone this, but yeah, yeah, I did so many. So I've now openly been sharing about my story, right? And I feel, yeah, I think the other benefit because like just going back to your previous question, right, was just realizing how, how supported I am and how much, how big a community this is, right? I used to feel so alone and no one understood. But then since I shared about it, people have just been coming forward all the time and saying that, hey, I felt this way. And they're also coming forward and saying like, I want to contribute to your cause. I want to, you know, find a way to volunteer. And like even within the team that we've built, it's we've got so many people who have gone through their own personal lived experiences, right? And I think it's just become such a kind of safe haven for people to, to come together and work on this mission together. Yeah, so lots of people, there's so many more than we know, right? Yeah, you're so right in saying that we always see like the best versions of, of other people, but we see the worst versions of ourselves. Yep, that's just a horrible comparison. Because you're the only one who knows like what's really going on in your life, but then everyone else is putting on their highlight reels. It's like, wow, everyone's having the best time of their life all the time. And then which one with me, and then you get into it. Exactly. Why do I feel so terrible? Why am I so alone? I have no friends. I'm not going on any holiday. So I was like, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's interesting. And you started to talk about a little bit about, and this can be kind of more of like an educational portion of this, if you'd like. It sounds like there's different kinds of bipolar categories. Yeah, a little bit about that. I think it might be kind of, you know, emotional for some of our viewers here. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's really interesting because I had to also try to figure out what, what this is that I had, right? So, um, bipolar disorder, it's very, it's not straightforward because, you know, it's not like it's depression where it's like unipolar, like one pole bipolar, it's, um, you know, there's ups and downs and then the, the degrees of ups and downs can vary in the individual and it looks different for every single person who has bipolar disorder. So obviously I've talked about it and now I have friends who also have it. So I learned about it from, through them as well. And, and I also got, I did a lot of googling and I asked my psychiatrists a lot of questions. So bipolar disorder, ups and downs, and basically there's, there's different types, right? So we can start with the mildest form, which is cyclothermia. And that is, you have like milder ups and downs, right? So it's like, if this is like your baseline, you're like, like that, up and down, up and down. It's usually not, um, very detrimental to your like day to day. But there's like no noticeable changes in your mood as well as your behavior, right? Then the other thing would be the next one, which is bipolar type two, which is what I have. It's, um, it's characterized by more lows and longer lows, right? So, so it's more like, okay, you've got a high, that's not so bad, but still it's, it's noticeable, but not like threatening, right? It doesn't, it's not life threatening. You may be spending a lot of money. You may be more like risk-taking. It's noticeable, but not to the extent that it's going to endanger anybody, right? So ups and then downs and it repeats. It goes again and again. So that's what I have. Um, and that's, um, I now manage that through my mood stabilizers. And if I have, um, low lows, um, I would go go get on antidepressants temporarily until I get back to a like normal-ish stable state. Um, okay. So that's type two. And then there's bipolar type one, which, um, so it's, that one is characterized by higher highs, which are like apparently, because I can't speak from personal experience. Um, so apparently those are way more extreme, um, in the sense that, yeah, maybe you, you may be affecting other people that way. So, uh, so higher highs and the lows apparently are for shorter periods or it's not really characterized by the lows. It's more about the highs. So, uh, yeah, that's what I know of bipolar disorder, but I'm not a mental health expert. Um, I'm not a psychiatrist. So, so go check it out with them. And, uh, yeah. I mean, like maybe one more thing to share is that sometimes, um, bipolar disorder also happens with other comorbidities. So you may have like other like conditions as well together to, to manage. Yeah. Yeah. And if I don't, if you don't mind asking, um, do you have you found any comorbidities or any other things that you were over? Thankfully, no, like thankfully not. Um, so I mean, I think something that's pretty common amongst people who experience bipolar disorder is psychosis. So they, they may lose, you know, they may be out of touch with reality for just a bit. Yeah. Um, and so they would have to take a specific medication for that. Yeah. You know, um, I'm actually having a conversation with one of my friends on the hike today about how, um, healing and important that like mindfulness portion is, right? Like I'm self-aware. I would imagine specifically in, um, experiencing bipolar because it's almost like it sounds like you have to be really listening to your body and being like, okay, where am I today? Like, do I need like the process or do I need something else or doing? I'm good. Like it sounds like you're doing kind of like this check in with yourself all the time. So it seems like being mindful is a big part of your journey. Yes, you're so right. Um, and I think mindfulness is like, it's helpful for everyone, right? But, um, I think for me, because, um, yeah, you know, I have to be cognizant of my moods, um, ups and downs and all of all of that. Um, I do check in with myself very regularly. Um, and what I take note of is first of all my sleep. So, um, sleep is like a huge indicator of how I'm feeling, right? If I get my usual eight hours of sleep, then, uh, okay, like things are fine. If it drops to like five hours, four hours, then I'm usually in a hypomanic state. Um, and if it's like, I just want to stay in bed forever, then I'm probably depressed. So, um, so sleep is one. I also check in a lot on my, like how I'm feeling for the day, right? My mood. Um, and also my, like my energy level. So I kind of do a daily check in with myself to see how I'm feeling and, um, and how I do that is, uh, yeah, I try to grab myself in meditation, but I also journal and just, uh, I actually use an app to like track, um, how I'm feeling and like my moods and everything. Um, yeah. And, uh, what else? Lots of things. I mean, like, honestly, my period also affects my mood a lot. So I keep track of that. That's a huge part. Yeah. Huge. I'm like, why am I so depressed? Oh, okay. So, um, so yeah, I kind of have to be aware day to day, um, how I'm feeling and then adjust my, my schedule or adjust my activities accordingly. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's amazing because it sounds like the gift out of all this journey is that you've found this reason to be really super mindful of yourself and it sounds like that's been a gift for you. Lots of gifts. I can't even, yeah, there's so many things. And you know, okay, so I'm going to bring up something here right now and it might be triggering for some people. Um, and I actually want to address this because this is exactly why we're having this conversation. I invite you to look at this comment. Only Jesus can set you free from all mental and psychic illnesses. Meditation is demonic. So we're having a conversation today about normalizing mental health disorders, right? And comments like this, I want to really look at this forth and how, how, um, create some discernment around this specifically on this channel because we are here to support and make it very clear that it's not a demonic thing, first of all, to meditate. And, you know, only Jesus can set you free. This feels like someone saying that it's a sin to have mental or psych psychic or whatever, you know, this isn't even a word, but illness. So this is why we're here, right? So I want to just have a raw conversation here. Like, what are your thoughts on this and how can, you know, imagine if this was like day one of you being diagnosed and someone saying this to your face or someone else is reading this and they're on the verge of trying to go to a therapist. Like these comments are just not okay. So share with us a little bit. Like what are you? So I have been on the receiving end of these comments, right? And, and hey, I actually gave it a shot. I went to church twice with two different people who were like, come with me. I really want to help you. And, you know, I have the belief that anyone who says this, they, they probably come from, you know, probably good intentions, right? They're probably well intentioned. And I think what we're facing with mental illness or mental health conditions as a whole is that we generally don't have the, I mean, I think we generally lack the understanding of what it really is, right? Because what I have, you know, come to realize and I found that this has really been helpful in explaining mental illness is that your brain is an organ too. And it can fall sick just like any other organ, right? So I think when you understand the, when you understand mental illness from like the biological perspective, then it's a lot more easy. It's a lot easier to accept that it can happen. And there can be things that happen in your brain that, that affect your mood, affect how you are, right? And yeah, so that's, that's one point. But with regards to the whole, I guess, religion and how that can help mental illness is that, I mean, I think there is a role in that spirituality and religion can play in helping mental health, right? In the sense that like, yeah, if you have, if you're religious or spiritual, then you may have that faith that can help you where you can like kind of seek solace and comfort to get you through the problems that you're facing. But I would say that probably extends only to things, only to mental health conditions that are triggered by stressful life events and not, you know, it doesn't change your physiology or it may not be something that's like, yeah. Thank you for sharing. I mean, I can just sense your compassion around that, right? Like you're not even giving it a second to be triggered. You're saying, listen, it sounds like there's a gap between like the, you know, the education that people get to have around mental health. And this person intends well, there's nothing right or wrong. It's just this person has his own perspective. And it sounds like you're, you get to say, okay, like this person just doesn't know what mental health really is maybe because they've never been exposed to it. I love that so much because I have this saying like, you know, that I love, which is, I didn't create this, but hurt people hurt people, right? And if someone is being blatantly rude or whether it's out of ignorance or out of truly malicious intent, it's just because that person also needs healing. And in that we can find compassion for all people. For sure. I say that a lot as well. So it's helped me a lot too. It's helped a lot. Yeah, it's helped a lot in, in finding compassion for people who are, are just plain mean. And it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, I want to talk a little bit about this because there's like these other extreme end of stigma I've found is that there's people who, you know, do not think mental health conditions are real. And then there's people who are like, it's real, but medication is bad. You know, you should be able to find a cure or, you know, da da da da, based on just like meditating or, you know, finding holistic, you know, ways to heal yourself. What are your thoughts on that? I would say that, hmm, okay. So, so, so this is difficult for me to comment on because, um, I, I have thoughts around it. So I'm just like gathering myself, gathering thoughts. But, um, okay. So, so my belief is that it really depends on the, the mental health condition or illness that you're facing. Um, I think in conditions that are more severe, that's really impacting your day to day. Um, like if you can't even get out of bed or you can't even like shower or like do things, if you have zero motivation to do anything. Um, I think I really do believe that medication helps people a lot in, in kind of just getting to the point where they can function in their daily life, right? Um, and obviously for maybe like more severe, um, or acute illnesses like, uh, I don't know, schizophrenia, then medication really does play a role in it. Um, however, I also, yeah, I, I don't think every mental health condition necessarily requires, um, intervention via, uh, like medication. It really depends on where to what severity you're experiencing. But yeah, so what, so what I like to say a lot to my friends is that, um, medication can provide a really good crutch as you find your way to stability. Um, and yeah, and, and like, so for example, like, maybe I can share my own, like my own story is that, um, antidepressants for me used to be really, really helpful to get myself out of that depressive state. But in the past over, I think in the past two years, I haven't been on any antidepressants because I've been able to introduce my own, like, really positive habits and lifestyle changes that are really conducive for my well-being, right? So for example, for instance, I've stopped drinking alcohol because it's a, it's a depressant and it can trigger like really bad episodes. Um, I've cut down on caffeine, no coffee, want tea once a day. Um, what else? Uh, meditation also has helped so much. Uh, it's really helped me, uh, like let go of a lot of stress and, and all that. But yeah, but it takes so much effort to actually, you know, have all this discipline to, to practice good habits for yourself because, uh, yeah. So, so I would say that, yeah, medication is probably a crutch to get you through to that point where you're able to do it for yourself. Um, but then, uh, but then you've got to put in the work as well for sure. Yes. Yeah. That answer a lot. Thank you so much for, you know, answering that because I think I agree with you. Again, you know, not neither of us are, you know, um, psychologists or anything, but from our own experience and what I've observed and in myself and whatnot, like sometimes these medications, um, can be like a really good short-term like accelerator so that you can actually function and get to a point of starting a new like discipline habit or rituals or whatever. But it sounds like, you know, you're finding that it's not a good long-term cure. Like there gets to be other ways to like manage whatever it is you're moving through and, um, healing process isn't going to be just fixed by the pool. It's not just about medication. Yeah. However, we, we get to, um, not stigmatize that either, right? If people like need that, they get to do that, right? Like it sounds like it's like, you feel that it's a case by case as well as not stigmatizing, but also realizing that it's not the long-term cure, right? Yeah. I mean, obviously it depends on like where you're starting point is and what you're possibly that diagnosis is, right? So if it's, um, like I think in certain cases you may need to be on medication for life, um, and that's okay, right? That's okay too. And that's okay. But at the same time, um, for, I think for majority of cases we, you probably don't need to have the medication for life. You really have the medication only as a crutch, um, during times where you can't function like today. Yeah. Yeah. And you're so right in saying that, um, you know, it's, it's about us building our own habits as well. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, um, you know, in, in any way, have you found that your depression or, um, your depressed, depressive, um, you know, episodes, um, and or just like, you know, bipolar in general has been a gift for you. So for me, for example, I'm trying to share this part, um, let me practice it with my story real quick, which is that I, you know, I have ADHD and for a while I was like, I hate this thing. You know, it's hard for me to organize and all this stuff, but I'm starting to recognize it also as a gift, right? Because I can be, you know, I have these things I'm working through. However, I'm very creative and I can think of things in ways that people can't and I can connect with people in like such different, um, capacity and I'm starting to see it as my own magic. So I'm curious, like, have you experienced that also in some ways where you're like, you know, this is a thing and it's kind of a gift in its own way. Um, you know, that sounds amazing. And I don't know, you know, I, I've thought about it before. In some sense, like in some ways I, I really do appreciate that I've gone through this journey because I would not be who I am today if not, right? And it's really enabled me to develop so much more empathy towards everyone, right? And compassion as well. So I've, I've definitely become a better person through, through this journey. But in terms of like a gift, um, man, I have to say that depression is not a gift. It sucks. But, um, but with, um, hypomania, I used to think it was a gift, um, because I would be really, really excitable and I'd be able to make friends with so many people and I would create so many new projects and I would be super creative. But, but, um, I wouldn't say it's a gift per se because, um, I'm honestly enjoying my life being so stable right now. It took me a while to, to really embrace it because I was like, it's really boring. And I think that's what I mean. Like you're embracing it. I'm not seeing that condition itself. Yeah. Yeah. It's like because of that, there's been that magic of becoming who you are and all these insights and wisdom that you've gained and now you're sharing with the world, right? So it's like there's people who don't know exactly what you, um, or, you know, people go through. However, they don't have that depth of knowledge. And I think that can be really beautiful too, you know, and I think some of the best artists out there have had, you know, bipolar, I think, um, Van Gogh. They say that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, then some of the most amazing artists because of the depth of the emotions are so powerful. So yeah. No, it's just really cool. I mean, I feel that, um, you know, for some reason, the people that I, I know who has, like, who have bipolar disorder are, are some of the most creative ones, you know? And, um, so I think being able to embrace my, well, being able to embrace myself in my entirety that's been really a gift, right? Um, being able to understand what this diagnosis means. And what, uh, I don't know, just, yeah, just being able to embrace it has been, has allowed me to just be fully myself and be comfortable with who I am. Yeah. And I see someone say, I love my boring life now. Yeah, me too. Yeah. And I think boring is like, you know, ordinary days are the most extra ordinary days, you know? Oh my gosh. Yeah. No, I've learned how to like, you know, as part of my, my checking in every day and checking out as well. I practice gratitude. Yeah. I check in and check out every day and I practice gratitude as a part of it. And I just learned to enjoy the simplest things, you know, and, and depressed, like, this is actually more part of me not being depressed because like when you're depressed, you're like, everything is crap, right? Um, but then by practicing gratitude, I've learned to enjoy life so much more. And when, when I have good days, I feel that I can really experience it fully and not take it for granted. So yeah, I think that's actually a huge gift that's come up, come out of this. Yeah, it's like when you have days where you're feeling good, you go out and live it. And I feel that way when I'm, you know, sick with a cold or something, I'm like, but like, I'm going to feel so good when I can't go do all the things that I'm never going to, you know, slack out on my workout again, because, you know, having health is so good. And like, you remember how good it is to be well, right? So yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Hey, you guys, so we have Sabrina, we hear from Calm Collective Asia, and we're having a conversation today about normalizing mental health challenges and disorders and being able to talk about it. And, you know, that's really the mission of Calm Collective Asia as well. And, you know, Sabrina here, she has graciously shared her very vulnerable story with us today regarding bipolar and her journey around it. And really quickly before we go, I'm curious, do you guys have any questions for her? If you do, please, you know, type your questions in the chat. We'll be here just for a few more minutes. And yeah, um, let's see here. I'm just kind of looking here from Asia. Asia is funny and true. I know. Um, thank you. I'm looking as well. What was the app you used? What app? Oh, I think you were talking about some kind of app where you are logging in. Yeah, so that one was for by, okay, I have my phone right now. It's very rude to like look at my phone. But, but it's okay. It's called eMoods. So it's specifically created for bipolar disorder. Is it E-E-M-O-O-D-S? Yeah. And I actually have this app also called Grateful that I can do like my crew journaling. Gratitude is such a big cornerstone of, you know, what I coach my clients with and gratitude is so healing. It really is. It is. Yeah. Oh, okay. So I have this, um, so this was actually shared by my partner. Um, so I had this mild depressive episode two years ago and, um, and I got introduced to the cookie jar exercise and he was like, okay, so right, like he basically told me to sit down for five minutes or 10 minutes and write down all my cookies in my cookie jar. And basically I had to like celebrate all my small wins, right? And, um, I now do this at the, I think every like four to six months I would just sit down and like write down all the things that I, I won, right? All my small wins. And that really helps me, uh, grow on myself. And it makes me feel better when I feel down. I love that. I love that. And if you're open to share some wins that's going on, whether in your life right now or Com Collective Asia, I know you guys just had a beautiful summit. Um, yeah, share with us. What are some wins for you lately? Wait for me? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh, okay. Um, ah, small wins. Oh, so many things. Um, all right. So, well, for Com Collective Asia, we just did our, um, first large, larger scale, um, virtual mental well-being festival called Calm Con. Um, it was so much fun. Yeah, my big win was that, yeah, we had no technical difficulties. Um, no, no, it was great. Yeah, that was like, you know, big win. Um, now everything ran really smoothly. Um, we had such great speakers on board. Um, yeah. Yeah. And, and there was so much engagement from our audience and it was so cute. Like people were able to, to click on emojis and, you know, have little hearts flying all over the screen. So I had a good time. Um, small wins. Another small win that, or actually a big win that I think we have is that, um, we've been running our Calm Circles. These peer-to-peer support circles for well-being. Beautiful. Calm circles. Yeah. And, um, oh my goodness. Like it's so nice to connect with our community and have people actually come together and share vulnerably and openly. So that's been lovely. That's beautiful. And we have a question here. Have you run into this issue? How do you, when you have no support system and no motivation to seek out any? Yeah, you know, that's when, those were the days where I was just like, I'm in bed and I hope I don't wake up, you know. Um, so that's, that's happened many times and it's really hard because having no motivation to seek out help, I guess the question is why do you have no motivation to seek out help? Um, it's probably because you, yeah, I think in, in that kind of state, you're so consumed by just feeling so bad, right? Yeah. And I think for me at least I can share about my personal experience. Um, when I felt so horrible about myself and about everything in general and everything weighs so heavily, I felt that it took so much energy to even share about this with someone else. And I, and because it was weighing down on me so much, I felt that I don't want to weigh someone else down with, with me. I don't want to drag someone else down. And therefore, let me just sit in this mess, let me just, you know, be like, let me just weigh myself down and hope that I never get up. Yeah. So, um, it's really hard. Um, I would probably try to think about, okay, who, who's like the safest person I can turn to right now? For me, it was actually, you know, of all people, I surprised myself and I reached out to my mom, who's like miles and miles away in New Zealand. It's the closest people are hardest to reach out to. Yeah. Yeah. So like, at that time I had like, I was hanging out with a lot of friends, but I didn't feel like reaching out to them. Um, and, uh, yeah, for some reason, I, I just reached out to, to my mom and she then realized that, okay, I, I really needed help. And, um, yeah, I mean, there's a whole story about that. But like, um, I think the point is to, to find the person who's who you feel most comfortable with. And what I, uh, during another time I faced this, uh, scenario, I guess, was what I did was actually call one of the three hotlines available. Um, so there are quite a lot of free like help lines around mental health and I just just called one of them. Yeah. And, and that actually helped me. And there's one in Singapore or is this in Singapore? We have quite a few in Singapore. Um, and I, I believe like, if you're outside of Singapore, you can totally just jump on Skype and call the number. Um, yeah. We have some information that we can post in the comments later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They really feel like they have no one to reach out to. They know that they can call that number. Yeah. We have quite a few in Singapore. Um, actually so many that people don't know about. Um, like this is Samaritans of Singapore aware, which is more for like women's and sexual assault. Um, and then there's also like, there's a national care hotline as well that my, so actually my friends running that one. Um, it's, it's, there's a lot of resources available online and people are ready to speak with you. Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that because these are such practical advice and tips and I think it's really, really helpful. Let me see if there's anything else. Um, let's see. Oh, I see someone saying that talking to people online has gone so stale. It is true. It's really, um, it's hard, right? Because you don't get that connection. Um, yeah. And, um, I wonder whether people are reaching out through like online forums, like just typing because I feel personally, I'm not much of a texter. It's really tiring to text. And you don't, you don't get the context, right? Um, yeah. Yeah. So yeah. But even calls like these with like, like the one I'm having with you, it's, it's really creating a connection. It is the first time I'm technically meeting her on face to face, Zoom, like, or, you know, video like this. And it is true. I mean, obviously there's nothing that's going to replace the physical, like, you know, getting together with people. And I know in some parts of the world right now, that may or may not be even a possibility. However, there are different ways that we can utilize technology to feel that connection. And you know, quite honestly, like during the, um, earlier part of the pandemic, I would literally just schedule Zoom calls with random people all the time as if I'm just meeting them. And it was, it was really helpful, you know? So even your, you know, own friends and family, like you can schedule these kinds of Zoom calls with people and stay connected. And, you know, so sometimes connecting with strangers is easier than reaching out. Oh, for sure. Yes. Yes. No, I have so much to say about that because, like, your friends and family have this, like, you know, this, this idea of you that they've painted for themselves, right? And sometimes when you want to talk about something really vulnerable, it's so much easier to talk to someone you don't know, because you can just be your, your true self, right? So, um, yeah, especially when you're going through, like, depression or something, because that's kind of outside of your usual self, right? So then friends and family will be like, well, who are you, you know, who's this version of you? So. Yeah. Those moments, it's so important to just remind our logical brain that we are loved and that we're not alone. And even if we did reach out to, you know, our friends or family, they're gonna love us. And if they don't, that's a whole different. You're better off without. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've, I've had, yeah, you know, I reached out to quite a lot of friends as well. And, and, you know, I found, I basically, I found out who my real friends were because, yeah, because quite a few, I did, I did face a lot of judgment from friends and family as well. And, yeah, they were like, Sabrina, you're just being dramatic and you're just being like, you know, you're just being manipulative and asking for attention, which, you know, was very hurtful. But I can see where they're coming from because they were not, I guess they're not well versed with mental health conditions. So it's okay. And if you know, if people don't have the, if they're not able to extend their sympathy towards you, then that's okay. That's kind of one of them. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And yeah, I feel like, I mean, this whole different topic, but those people who might be triggered by what you're sharing or they don't accept you for what you're sharing, my, my suspicion is they probably have something that they want to be more open about and they don't have the courage. So they're being triggered by someone who is living their truth, right? So, you know, I believe that's their own journey to heal. And you're doing your, yeah, and you have a voice and you're sharing it and you're making into this really beautiful purposeful, you know, movement and organization. So we're so grateful for you. Yeah. And I'm grateful for Psych2Go as well. It's been so amazing, you know, just following the videos and watching everything. And it's, it really, you know, I think content, like content, like, well, I guess what we're doing, it's, it's really helping a lot of people feel less alone, right? And, and feel more understood. Yeah. I believe, and this is, you know, I guess it's on topic, but like, I really do believe that we're all connected, like, you know, we're all literally all connected in one way or another. And, you know, of course, like the frequency or the depth of how each person feels depending on, you know, what they're moving through might be different, but I have a belief that every single person experiences all those emotions at one point in their life, unless, you know, they have whatever, you know, their own conditions. But, you know, in that, I think we are really, truly all connected. And, yeah, so being able to talk about this is so beautiful. And thank you so much for opening up, having this conversation. Like, I almost forgot that we're like, even here, you know, with, you know, millions of people, other people. It's just such a, it was just a real conversation. And I just felt like you were just here, just being you and just sharing, like, everything that you get to share with the world. And I do, if I do see that as your magic. So, you know, I think it's, it's beautiful that you're turning this into a way for you to contribute to the world. And, you know, that's your gift. So thank you for sharing your gift. Oh, thank you. That's a Korean heart. Exactly. Yeah. No, thank you so much. I mean, like, I think what we really want to do here is that we want to foster more authentic conversations, right? And we want people to be just comfortably themselves. And I think all of us have so much to offer in our own human experiences that's way beyond, you know, the glossy, beautiful lives that we show off on social media. There's so much in each and every one of us that we can share. And there's so much, I guess there's so much like wisdom within ourselves as well if we just take a pause and look into ourselves, right? So yeah, I do hope that we can, I guess, first start with having those vulnerable conversations with ourselves so that we can then find the courage to do it with others. Like Amy Goosebumps, yeah, we get to have those vulnerable conversations with ourselves first. And I think that's why meditation and journaling and talking to a therapist or, you know, talking to people about this is so important because sometimes like we don't even, we are not even having that vulnerable conversation with ourselves and it starts there. Yeah. So well, this is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your heart, sharing your stories. If you guys enjoy this or you were moved by this, or if you really appreciate a Sabrina sharing her story, please, please comment below if you're watching this replay or please share in the chat. And curious, like if you guys have any other topics or anything else that we can, you know, start to have more conversations around, please share your thoughts and feedback. We would love it. Feel free to share this video with as many people as you'd like, especially if you know anyone who's, you know, moving through this journey as well or something similar. And, you know, our hope and intention here is that we just get to, you know, like really make everyone feel just as perfect as they are with or without, you know, any kind of mental health conditions and know that we are not any different. We're just, you know, all humans doing this experience on earth and, you know, you shouldn't hide based on certain kind of condition. Like we want you to be exactly who you are. So it was really helpful. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, everyone's appreciating some being here. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Yeah. And then it sounds like people want to learn more about ADHD or having a conversation about that. Have fun and be safe. Everyone's so sweet. Thank you so much. You guys are amazing. And by the way, we just exceeded like 8.1 million subscribers on Psych2Go. And we're so grateful. We just celebrated that. I just think it's so beautiful because I think it's just a reflection that everyone is, you know, willing to look at this and normalize it. Like that's what I see. You know, it's so cool. No, it's really amazing. I'm so excited. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. We love you. We appreciate you. And is there a way that could you share with us like how do people learn more about Calm Collective Asia? You know, if we can reach out to you, how do they do it? Yeah, share with us. Yeah, okay. So for Calm Collective Asia, we, so we, we, you can follow us on Instagram at Calm Collective Asia, one word. And you can also find us on LinkedIn. We create quite a lot of content around like workplace wellbeing as well. And we have a website www.calmcollective.asia which is undergoing a site revamp. So check it out. It's not the most beautiful, but check it out anyway. And if you want to find me, I am on Instagram at Sabrina IOOI. All right. IOOI. Yeah, I have like a middle name. So I is for Iskandar. Sabrina Iskandar me. So Sabrina IOOI. Awesome. Yeah. Add me too. It's I'm at you. Yes. And we'll include all of our information below. So you guys can follow us. Oh, guys, thank you so much. I'm crying right now. Oh my gosh. We love you. I love you. You want to socialize where you can because of your energy level. It's okay. Take care of you first. You're beautiful. And thank you for being here. Be proud. Yes. Yes. Yes. Well, thank you guys. Everyone. Thank you so much for joining and thank you so much, Sabrina. And I'm sure and we'll chat after this because I have some questions for you as well. So we'll continue the conversation. All right. Thank you, everybody. Have a beautiful evening day wherever you are. Bye y'all. Bye.