 Hello and welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I'm joined by Mr. Lewis Bernstein who has a has had quite the collection of drums throughout his his lifetime Lewis welcome to the podcast. Thanks Bart. Great to be here Yeah, so this is an interesting one that that I'll say right off the bat our mutual friend Richard Hirsch Suggested and really stuck on me because sometimes I get a suggestion and then I go that's a great idea and then I I Move on to something else and I forget and then I come back and he said no no you got to talk to Lewis about Downsizing a drum collection, which is like I said a very unique topic, but I think a lot of guys and girls will Who are amassing collections over their lives will hit a point where oh? Boy, I got a lot of stuff. What do I do with it now? true Well, let's I want to learn more about you as a player and a collector and all this stuff But just to kind of get people's you know You know get it going. Why don't we start with maybe tell us about what your collection was? at its at its highest point great so Going back to Richard Hirsch. I met Richard three months after I sold all my collection and That was a horrible feeling for Richard because he was really starting to collect at the time A few years ago and when we met we discovered we're drummers. We discovered we like vintage drums. I said I had this great collection He said oh, I'd love to see it. I said it's down to nothing. There's three little drums left so that's how we became good friends and So as a kid growing up in Philly I had an older brother have an older brother. He's four years older he was a guitar player and I Always wanted to play drums. My dad was a jazz musician. That's what he did for a living He taught piano and he played in jazz bands and jazz clubs and then eventually the wedding bands and things so I got a cheap little drum set and I was hooked. I love drums So I began collecting at the end of my collection, which really was about 2013 to 14 I had in my drum room in my basement on display a hundred and twenty snare drums and four drum sets Over the years Because I bought and traded and sold I had about 230 240 snare drums that passed through me. Wow. Yeah, and Maybe 30 drum sets my collection really was based upon the late 1920s to the late 1960s Yeah, I had some things in between You know a be you know in the 70s and 80s and some of the teens but really that's where my collection was So at the height, you know, I was really sitting on some really great pieces and I started In the 70s when there weren't really value to a lot of old drums that you could get things Extremely reasonable. In fact up until I guess the Mid-90s early mid-90s prices were really good If you didn't buy from certain collectors, so that's how you know and most of my collection was really white marine pearl That's what I was fixated on fixated on buddy rich Yeah, in Krupa. They played white marine pearl That was really the drums of choice back in the day when I really liked the music from them So that's basically how my collection Evolved yeah, I noticed it's a lot of white marine pearl So that's a that's an interesting thing that I really like about collectors and collecting is You know you find your thing you like it you collect it and Which maybe is is you know not to jump ahead too much to the selling of the collection, but I wonder if it's if it's harder or easier to sell when you have Let's say a hundred white marine pearl snares as opposed to a wide variety of snares because That's a very desirable finish. I think that is one of the most desirable as opposed to you know Like a tangerine sparkle or something or a pink sparkle. It's like everyone kind of wants a white marine pearl So so you really did pick a a Timeless thing to collect which I guess helps with the the resale Well, we'll tell us first off. When did it happen? When did you you said 14 13 14 15? Yeah, so so happened at my daughter's wedding Believe it or not. So 2013 July my daughter gets married and My new son-in-law's cousin comes up to us and says hey, I heard your thinking of moving We went to house. We heard you have a nice house. We're looking in that neighborhood Would you let us see your house? Sure, you know, we were thinking of moving but not for a few years Maybe three four years moving out of the house for bedrooms for baths Full basement, you know, that was my drum room Garage workshop to an apartment to a condo to bedroom to baths. No room for drums And so we had a lot of time to think about it and I had time to think about it Never heard from them About September I get a phone call on the Sunday. Hey We're Scott's cousin. We're in the neighborhood. Can we come by and see your house? No, it's it sure come by, you know, so they came in September Looked at the house called me that night made me an offer said I'd like to move in April 1st That's when the panic began Now, you know, I had to come through it first Emotionally more than anything because I've been doing a little selling I had maybe a hundred and fifty hundred and sixty snare drums and I had sold the ones that really didn't mean much to me Yeah, but but they really went when you when you're hunting and you find things and it takes sometimes years You have an emotional attachment so that was all of a sudden panic struck in and That's when I had to decide I needed to do it by April to get rid of everything but a few drums and drum sets and accessories and parts and Magazines and articles and yeah And pack your house up to move like you're normal right your furniture and your plates and stuff I mean, you know all joking aside. It really is a psychological like we are so connected to our stuff of like You know, well, I've had that symbol for you know, 30 years or something I don't want to get rid of that But then you're like whenever I like clean stuff out even like a shed or something There's like stages of like well, I'm gonna want that bag of sand later on For something for something but then the next phase is well, all right I'll get rid of that now and then it's like well now I can get rid of this I mean, but you had to like you had to do it fast. Yeah Geez, all right, so so Let's just jump in then like how did that so obviously you're you're not happy, but you got to do it I mean there's I have to do it right and you know It's there's several ways to do it I have been involved in vintage drums and No, tremendous people great people over the years I was the I think the very first vintage drum show in the early 90s Mike Cairo had in Bethesda, Maryland and Then Jack Lawton who's a very dear friend of mine started the Pennsylvania drum show and I've been the most of his over the years And so I know so many people I used to communicate with people before internet and before Email we would talk on the phone or write letters and yeah, you know get pictures and have them develop the send of things So I knew a lot of people me certain people wanted certain parts of my collection So, you know, one of the things though is pricing, you know Where do you what do you tell a friend that you know you can get $5,000 for this drum or $2,000 and he only really wants to pay you know 300 or 500 Yeah, but that's another difficult part because in this crazy drum market You could get somebody in another country that will pay five times But somebody here would pay sure and that's where the auction sites like eBay and reverb really have helped You know collectors both buying and selling Yeah, so I started to talk to some of my friends and some of the people that I knew where got out certain people were calling me and It got to where it was a little bit difficult to try to price And I figured the only fair way to do it for me is to put it on an auction Like all of it in one yeah, I mean right so certain friends of mine I did get pieces for you know somebody wanted, you know a snare that I had You can have it, you know for this much and that much and I was looking at where the prices seem to have been Yeah, but the other key is I didn't do a lot of selling so I didn't have a reputation and That's key on something like this because if you're a seller and you have a really great stellar Reputation you're gonna get more money Than somebody else that doesn't because of the trust factor sure plus People look at your site all the time. You're their favorite. I'm not a favorite for buyers because I'm not really seller So so one of my good friends for many many years is a fellow named rich King and King's music. He's out of Annapolis, Maryland We go back many years ago to when he was a dealer and he's become the go-to person for so many people Charlie Watts and he were very close friends. He did a lot of work for Charlie Charlie trusted him I in fact did just a little segue. He invited me to meet Charlie in 1994 to Stone's Filly got me backstage. We just hung out. So Which has got this tremendous reputation unblemished in any way the most honest So I called him up. It's rich. They have all these snare drums, you know about a lot of what I have How about helping me sell them? Three hours later. He was in this car drove up with his SUV and We started putting everything into his car and over the next several months He was posting them putting the descriptions the pictures and He was getting Tremendous results on this Wow, I mean you're you're so right that trust which obviously There's nothing saying that you're not trustworthy. You know, you just hadn't done it That's like where the guys like Steve Maxwell and people like that have built that reputation right to be a dealer and also like you said if and I'm sure Just with being you know, the transparency of it Obviously, I would imagine that you said I'll give you a percentage or I will cut you in because that's a job is taking pictures packaging using the connections and Like we were saying before you got to move out of your normal the rest of your house So that's a lot and you have normal life going on. So you sort of need someone's help and I guess you could People out there can do it themselves, but with a collection that size it that help I'm sure is just Involvable that's exactly, you know, when you go to a house sale and somebody You know sets up these house sales or antique sales, you know, they do it all at one time so I had that feeling and again with Richard's reputation and His knowledge of every drum made that really helped tremendously also because he knows flaws and He knows what is an OEM and he could put that in the description and he he always did He was, you know, totally transparent in what he would say about a drum And so yeah helped a lot You know, there's something about selling stuff where I have found that like if my wife is trying to sell like, you know, just some house stuff like a table and I go Did you put in the description that there's a big scratch on one of the legs from like where a dog Scratch it or something. No, I didn't I didn't say that and then I have to kind of be like, well, they're gonna find out It's gonna be awkward. So it's sort of one of those things where you need to say upfront. There's no Hiding it when someone, you know, that's how you keep your reputation But like just putting all that information right up front. There is a blemish. It does have, you know The lug was replaced on this one side or something like why not say upfront? Because that's how you get I feel like those those the reputation is earned by every little it's over years and years of Selling to people so that you're paying him for that trust. That's correct And you know, it's he also didn't put everything on auction because he knows what certain people are looking for that pay top dollar Yeah, and he wanted to help them out as well And I will tell you for what he charges it was well worth it for me because He got much more money for pieces than I would have gotten because I didn't have the real collectors I wouldn't have them coming to buy from my site He's gonna might say, you know radio king five by fourteen white marine pearl and passed me by But him they zero in on so that really was a big help and it was again over months and months and You know a lot of questions and he had to answer but it worked out and it was it was difficult I have to tell you emotionally like I said because certain pieces really I went through a lot to get You know trading and offers and selling pieces to get others and somebody said well if you find me this You can have this drum so I would go on the hunt looking for that So there was you know a lot of work put into building the collection. Yeah So that alright, so I do it after we you know We will get to describing a little bit more about what's in the all that and what was in the collection and all that stuff But while you're there because I was just thinking like emotionally. This is tough. I mean You've worked so hard on it. It was it is your hobby your hobby. It's it's a lot of our hobbies I mean it's it's something fun just to do it's that hunt It's it's so rewarding when you've been searching for it and man, that's tough just to get rid of it But what do you what was the alternative? Were you going to put it in a storage unit? So then no one right, you know What do you do? So Another friend of mine who was a collector when I was telling him what I was going to do and I first said maybe I'll just put it in storage and he said well you may as well put cinder blocks in the storage bin Because if you're not going to look at them and you're not going to play them What are you storing them for? Yeah, what does that do? You know when I had them their own display in a room So I could see them and I could pull down a snare drum and play it along with my set and pick Take another one down another time. Yeah, but it and it that really made sense to me all of a sudden figure out a few that I'll keep and Just start, you know life over again as I did before being a drum collector Yeah, and it was you know some of the things that I had some older friends That were really terrific that were drummers and or collectors that would come over and help me We would polish weed buff. We would you know take the rust off of certain Tension rods and things. Yeah, and I would hold that drum and I'd think of them Say well, I remember Ed helped me with this or Bill and you know, oh, yeah Those are things that you know again part of that whole emotion. Yeah, but it's it's this is like kind of a Microcosm of just of life in general, I guess of like you acquire things you work really hard to get a new house And a bigger house and then at a certain point then you have when I get a smaller house So what was you I mean? I'm sure it was it was a mixed bag of emotions, but when when your collection when when it was sold off Which how long did that take? I mean that process of him So it started in late 2013 so say November December and by the summer of 2014 Everything was done. Wow man. All right, so then What was you you were probably busy also with moving and kind of work? You know life happening. What were you feeling then? I mean just so like because the whole thing I keep thinking with all this is getting You know, maybe someone will be at that stage in life soon or they will at some point Kind of give him a little bit of a roadmap of like, all right, this is the after It depends on what you have I had some very premier drums So the first couple of checks that I got From rich we're a very substantial amount. Yeah, you know a drum That normally you would maybe say where it's six seven hundred dollars. I'm getting a check for a thousand. Wow, or 1500 or 800 a stand a Roger Swan leg Swivelmatic cymbal stand $200 250 it was like all of a sudden. I'm getting $7,000 at a time for for several pieces and I never paid anywhere near any of that I mean, I really was at the time when I was buying drums were $100 150. Yeah, I had a Ludwig and Ludwig Street opal Five by 14 tube love. It's on the cover of the guy to vintage drums Solo called me up. It was about 1990 said I found this drum. I know you like old drums If you want it come see me. I went he showed it to me. I paid him a hundred dollars for it He said to me he bought it for 20 at a garage sale Now I sold that in the mid 90s Because a collector had been after me and I sold it for thirty five hundred dollars So that was way back if it was white marine probably may not have sold it so fast But it was white marine pearl with the black so it was streaked out Well, but it was a ridiculous amount of money. Yeah, I never paid That much for drums. So I was able to when I started getting checks Wow, this is crazy money crazy money. Yeah, I mean, but like you said you didn't get into it for that reason of selling But but hey, that's that that The great answer of that kind of softens the blow a little bit like it does. I mean you're you you deserved it though You did the work you put in the collecting time you did the hunting You learned a whole lot. I mean you've got it's a passion that you've obviously we all share and that you you got to really like hold these drums and make friends doing it and have fun doing it, but When it ends, I mean, yeah, of course, that's great. You you you took kind of a risk on some of them I'm sure not every drum panned out to be, you know paid a hundred got thirty five hundred. I'm sure they weren't Windfall, you know amounts of money, but Yeah, so You must still though think about that collection and miss it I'm sure from time to time your drum room and all that stuff. That's has to be this that's beyond normal, you know Well, and you know some of the I have a nephew who When he was 12 came over got into drums. I started teaching him by 14 He was teaching me. Oh, wow. He went on to play in college went to Boyer College of music played in the jazz big band went to SUNY purchase for his master's degree Played in New York for about eight years recording playing He now is in a different business, but he would come over all the time and we would play we had a couple drum sets set up and He loved vintage drums his first set was a bread and butter lugged Rogers from the early 60s that I got for him that he absolutely loved So that part those are the things that I miss friends coming over. I Got very friendly. It's very fortunate to get very friendly with Meltor may over the years and Mel tremendous guy would spend the month of September mid-September mid-October in New York at Michael's Pub playing every fall until he got sick and passed and Second year he was there learning about my collection as if I would give him a drum set to use for his drum We're Donnie Osborne. Hmm. So I had a mid-60s Rogers white Marine Pearl buddy rich set and Every year I'd bring it up and Donnie would use it for a month. Wow, and That's you know, I can't get that back. That's something that you know Was part of my collection and when Mel came to Philly to perform a few times with the Philly pops use my one of my Radio King snare drums and I have pictures of that, you know him on stage with my drums. So yeah, those are things that you know, you just Never never will get back. Yeah, but I I mean, it's so cool that it happened I keep I was just thinking like, you know, would you rather have loved and lost than not loved at all? Like it's something I mean you you did it you had the it's it's just the way of life, I guess so After you experienced this process of downsizing and all this stuff and you've been through it For folks who might like I said have to go through it at some point Is there anything you would have maybe done differently or that you learned from the process? or things like you you said using kind of like rich using using a Broker, I guess you could say was seems like a big benefit to you But is there anything you learned that you might have done a little differently? Probably one of the things I would have done is not have as many drums at one time and that's really truthful because it becomes a little bit too large to really Wrap your arms around and really say gosh, I have a really great collection But too much, you know, I remember seeing the bumper sticker the one who dies with the most toys wins You know, I didn't want to have the most drums and it became you know a little bit of an obsession because it's white marine pearl But I already have that. Well, but here's another one. I Can't I have two white marine pearl Dinos onyx? Or two leady white marine pearl snare drums. Yeah, but I didn't have to and That's one of the things that I definitely would do differently. I would not have as many drums in my collection Maybe half would have been a perfect amount to have and then also selling would have been a little easier And and the other thing is, you know, I would not have done it myself as I said for me not having the seller's reputation It was a tremendous boost for Me to reap the most that I could out of my collection having somebody that has the reputation that rich has Yeah, and I mean God the Maybe a couple drums would be sort of fun to like box up and package and ship But like logistically doing that for 150 snares or whatever. I mean That's a lot of work. That's a job. It is and I've done it over the years Of course selling something here or there, you know, you buy a set to get a drum. Yeah, I bought drum Says just to get a foot pedal. Yeah, you know, I didn't want the set. I wanted the foot pedal Yeah, but it was there and then I had to sell those off. But yeah, that's probably the only things You know that I would change a bit. Yeah. Yeah Alright, well, that's that's a great point. So maybe now we could talk a little bit more about what was in the collection Some like some maybe your favorite drums. Obviously, there's a ton there. We know they're primarily white marine pearl but maybe what are some of your Absolute favorite drums that you had and some of the stories that go along with the the process of collecting them. So The reason I began my collection Like I got into drums. I became a drummer My father said Buddy Rich That's the guy you got to watch. Yeah, and I remember when I was about 11 Maybe 12 years old on public television they showed a Harry James video and It was Buddy Rich on drums. I think it was recorded around 64 1964 1965 it's about 20 minutes on YouTube But there was Buddy and he was playing white marine pearl Rogers and That's when I decided I want to start looking for Rogers drums and I wanted to start looking for white marine pearl Wow, so I set out and started looking and that was And I was you know in in the 70s 1970s is when I really started to look for that. I knew what I wanted I knew what I like then doing more history on Buddy seeing that he had radio kings and he had WSL's and I'll thought well, gee maybe I can get one of the snare drums Buddy had and Started looking for the you know the three by 13 bebop and the super Ludwig and all the different snare drums that Buddy had. Yeah, so that's how I started to collect them You know the hardest one. I think I had that I finally got was the white marine pearl tricks on Oh, yeah, he played under the label Vox for a very short time There was some I never got I never got the slingerling with the TDR throw off That was 70s It really didn't mean enough to me and I never was able to get the super sensitive that he had when he was a teenager You've seen it don't need it's a five by 14 with the extenders. I never found that. Hmm. I looked forever Yeah, yeah, I gotta I gotta send you the episode or maybe you've heard it It was Tommy Pioric did the buddy Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and that almost just had a I mean Tommy was great but so he sold that collection as a whole but I Just think there's something about the chase and the hunt and the build and it's kind of like once you get to the point of Okay, I think I have everything I need What do you do then you know what I mean? I guess it's you've you've completed It's all about the journey to be I was very fortunate also that when Buddy passed I was able to get one of his white marine pearl music stands. Oh, wow. It's that slingerling Well, I have that that I never will get rid of that. Yeah my collection It's flat so it doesn't take up as much room, but some of my favorite snares Obviously my wood dynasonic was one My five by 14 radio king was another. Yeah, I would say my two Favorite favorites is one and I've kept both of these one is a late 20s five by 14 Ludwig black beauty with the floral pattern and in very very good condition that I kept and about a 1964 Rogers power tone with the clock face from In white marine pearl those are the two that I kept Yeah, that was gonna be a question is you know, what makes it what it gets kept out of that the reason that one particularly got kept I was I'm in sales and I used to travel. I don't travel much anymore But I traveled to four or five different states and drive around visiting customers If I passed the pawn shop Or I saw a music store I pulled in So I found drums in places. I put drums on airplanes drums on trains. I had drums shipped But I got to know people in different states this one Fella in New York had a pawn shop and I saw this white marine pearl and This power tone and it wasn't for sale Took me three years, and I'll never forget on a Friday. I stopped in again and he said to me I'm gonna sell you this drum and That was one of the hardest drums I ever got and so that's why I kept it and there was also a rumor that Buddy like the power tone would drum better than the Dinosonic So that was another reason why I wanted that job. Oh That just like that makes you think too of things in life where like if you can't have it You want it more, you know, there's absolutely for me. That's true, and I'm sure that's for all of us drummers It's like well, I can't have it, but I'm gonna check in now every every time I'm in town Well, and you know, I remember trying to make a deal with a fella And I was up to like five to one Five snare drums that were really good to trade them for one and I was telling another collector friend of mine who said stop It's ridiculous Just time you have nothing but time That drum you want will come along One day it'll come along just don't do it and I didn't do it And about a year later, I did get the same drum Without selling or trading five or six drums plus cash, you know, it's how what drum was it? I mean that is it was it was an early radio king It was a 1936 1937 With the bridges and it was mitt And I found one just like it, but it was around 1994 93 And they were already popular for collectors. So it was very hard to get You know, I probably saw a dozen of them in the 80s and passed on them. Yeah, you know, and that's that's the thing I walked into a pawn shop I remember it was 1980 and there was a bread and butter rogers 2012 14 matching snare in mardi gras. Oh my god and I said, you know It doesn't do anything for me And three years later. I went back. It was there. I said I have got to get this. This is mardi gras Nobody has mardi gras And I I bought that set. Wow. I was still there. I was lucky. You don't see that finish I mean nowadays you never see that sitting around at a pawn shop. I mean What did you think were the big changes? I mean, did it become less fun when everyone had access to the same information in pawn shops where They can read about how much it's worth and they're an expert too now because they can google it Well, you know Way back before that was not so modern drummer. John. Oh sure and on the back of every issue There'd be items for sale by different people and You know, I would buy and then sell But I remember there were times when I would get my Copy and I would pick up the phone right away and call someone. They said, oh that was so when Two weeks ago. Well, my newsletter got held up There's didn't And that's what you would rely on You know to get drums to buy you would call friends you would look around but when Things like ebay came and it's still to me the biggest one There was so much availability That it was a good thing to find Pieces it was a very good thing, you know, I would get as soon as I would turn on my computer I would hit ebay and finish percussion would come up. That's right right away So I'd sit there all night, you know looking at things What it did on the negative side Was embellished the pricing, you know, it would make something that was worth $50 now 250 or 350 so it drums became more expensive And you know prior to something like that But you could find it you could buy it Yeah, I mean There's there's definitely the pros and cons to both and I mean, I'm sure your drums were sold Primarily via the internet. I mean, it's just obviously of course, you know, people aren't mailing in you know four by six photos of drums as much anymore as You said but Yeah, okay. So you said also you you are primarily a snare drum collector. You had drum sets Obviously four or five you said what were some of those drum sets that you had and I know obviously as a buddy rich fan Were they primarily buddy replica kind of kits or it was funny most of them were so I had I always had my rogers the two 16 by 16s a 22 13 and matching snare I had two radio king sets one with beaver tail one with the stream line They were one was a 26 13 two 16s and one was a 24 13 one 16 with the matching Of course, I had a 22 13 16 Ludwig black oyster pearl ringo set. Nice. Yep Of course, you know ringo I have to give him credit for what he did. Oh, yeah for drums and drummers That was one of my other really favorites. I had a couple really great gretz kits I'm a huge max roach fan so I love gretz and I used to you know collect the the pictures of all the The gretz drummers the rogers drummers the slingerland drummers So I had a couple really good gretz kits. I had two nice lady kits which were just spectacular one and white marine pearl and another one in blue sparkle And I would have over the years rogers in different configurations I had one of the The london ear with the double mounted tom tom I had a gretz double mounted tom tom. I never played double mounted, but you know, I had them Sure, I had one slingerland 80 n mid set early 70s buddy rich set 24 13 2 16s I've had five or six white marine pearl Tannister thrones Nice. Yeah, I have one right behind me that was owned by buddy. Wow that buddy's son-in-law Gave me years ago. We worked at manny's music and I gave them video tapes for a couple of the buddy rich Scholarship videos and he had this Throne that was there and gave it to me a white marine pearl slingerland Wow So that's that's that never will get sold. Yeah, that's not getting sold. I can't believe he gave it to you Instead of just like I'll give you a good deal. I mean wow Well, you know, I did give them a lot of tapes and for the jazz legend Hudson music I Gave a lot of the the tapes the videos because I had a big collection of buddy rich videos I would trade with people all over the world And I would I would pay a lot of money Get them in power and have to transfer them To ntsc and there was a guy in naperville annoy that did it and I need to know what I was getting half the time But I I'm on the credits for a lot of the videos and burning for buddy Given those so, you know, it helped me get to know a lot of people, you know those It's just an interesting side note those The videos that you're talking about the legendary drummers or whatever it was called where it's it's like Jazz legends, right? Yeah, yeah, would that be the one where it had like kind of the lower thirds of it would be like the blue Like bar and it would come up with the the title of the draw. I've posted exactly right Okay, because I have posted on social media a fair amount because that's kind of you know I'll do the episodes and then I'll do social media videos a lot Of these great drummers. I have I when I first started doing that and building a following with just drum videos I would just go to that particular video on youtube and kind of pull them off and put it on instagram or whatever and it's unbelievable unbelievable to be talking to the person who Acquired those original tapes. I mean, I've I've never even really thought about Talking to the guy who found those. What was that like? Well, you know, it's so so it's very interesting. There was a fellow that used to uh, Michael Chertok And David Chertok. They showed films at the Jazz record collectors There would be a record show iajr's international jazz record Collectors and they would show film footage of maybe buddy with Tommy Dorsey, you know doing Hawaiian war chant with already Shaw and movie house about it and I made some deals with him to buy some of his footage on vhs And then I found out that a lot of the jazz festivals in europe they show on european tv So I knew people in europe I would send letters and we would trade videos And so I was getting them of course had to transfer them Then you'd have the montreal jazz festival the Jacksonville Montreux and so That's when my collection was really growing Of jazz videos So when they decided to do the buddy rich jazz legend volume one and two I had the biggest collection of videos that they could use and I didn't that was free I just did it because I wanted to give back and wanted people to see it A friend of mine bruce clover was the producer Put it all together And Kathy, you know was very glad and buddy's daughter Kathy that we did this And uh for burning for buddy. I supplied some of them for neil pert So it was a lot of fun to do I mean, I I've talked about it on the show before but I truly think that there's sometimes there's these videos Uh archival videos on youtube of a buddy or who but he's pretty uh, he's very popular So he's a different category, but if there's a drummer, let's say like uh shadow wilson or someone someone who's like a very popular drummer who There's maybe one video on all of youtube. Let's say it's like a drummer from an old You know a country that literally doesn't even exist anymore or something like that And there's one video and that video is on youtube That really is probably because a guy like you who bought the tape in the 90s or 80s converted it sat on it Later put it on youtube. So so really I mean, you know, your your contribution to the drum world and collecting is great, but Historically these tapes are very very important. So I think it's great that you did that and and kind of had the uh the foresight to Save these and convert them and and be smart about it Well, and I would share them with with friends all the time we would trade back and forth And it was a lot of fun and and when you watch these especially some of the older ones You know, it's there's a movie uh Las Vegas nights you get to see buddy with Tommy to receive real early um Chippewa He has a dance scene with elner pow He tap dances with her, you know at the end they they trade and it's just to see does hawaiian war can't with uh ziggie elman And if you look at the drums at the end The ride cymbals down so it's not blocking him because the camera is coming up at an angle You get to see all these things that were Just yeah, yeah, and there's the video you would absolutely know immediately more about it than me But like there's the video of buddy performing somewhere on on old tv where he's got a chair and he starts off singing Kind of doing the crooning Right, and and it's like how often do you see that? I mean Dramology was his What do you call he he tapped in saying yep played percussion and uh, there's one video missing of Traps the drum wonder buddy, you know did it provide a phone when he was a young boy There's the soundtrack where you can hear him go into a music store and play on the counter But the video has never been found which I've heard of that and and that just that keeps you going doesn't it? Like I did that was one of the things melter may had tried to search for forever Yeah, never could find that. You know, I had uh, so at my at the studio job I've I've had for working with the studio for years. I remember I used to convert tapes Uh audio so be two inch like ampex tape where we you know, we'd bake the tape We'd put it in um, you know on the the two inch the reel-to-reel and then convert it back into pro tools and split it out Into 24 tracks or whatever Uh, and you know name um bass drum So I was doing this for a guy and I had this box of old tapes, you know And in there there was a canister Like uh, uh, I I don't even know the what what just like, you know millimeter film or whatever But it said it was like we're kind of green and It was about You know, maybe six inches around and uh, it said with tape that was like really old and peeled off it said gene krupa And I remember emailing the guy because he was taking the video somewhere else to get converted because that's not what we Didn't do that and um, and I remember just never hearing back I think I followed up because I and I'll never forget that it was like What is on that tape of gene krupa like? right well that You know and one of the tapes that I searched for videos forever wasn't even buddy It was a trumpet player cliford brown who was with max roach And was killed tragically in a car accident 25 years old and he appeared on tv once on soupy sales show in 1956 put suits on Wow, and I even wrote this soupy and to a son who was a drummer And said wait does anybody have this and finally I found it somewhere in europe and now it's on youtube you can see cliford brown playing trumpet So it's all these rarities that you know, they were that's much fun to collect but Those go in the cloud now You know the vhs tapes would disintegrate after a while. So all my videos are in the cloud It doesn't take up room like snare drum stuff. No, and it should be and All right, so that reminds me because this is such a fun I never get to talk about this video stuff with anyone and you're the guy. I mean so uh, there was one I was watching where Uh, it was a documentary I think about about vietnam or something like that And and there was a clip of a uso show with sammy davis jr playing drums And I'd seen some clips of him performing at uso shows and I couldn't find it Then I ended up finding like 1972 uso full dot mp4 or whatever like like someone just uploaded it and didn't change the name And six months. Yeah, like so six months after of looking I remember finding that clip and finding this video of sammy davis playing the drum solo And then I was just like, oh my god. I found it. I upload it. It does okay You know a couple people watch it, but still just feeling good about that hunt And there's one, um Which was kind of from my generation of you know growing up with wanes world with dana carvey and the drum solo in there There's a video from and I'm gonna put this out there if anyone has it on vhs I need to have it. It's it was a promotional clip. It was like from wanes world music a go-go And dana carvey does a drum solo. It's not the big famous one from the movie But um, there's one clip of it on youtube under a weird name that has the most high pitch T kettle kind of screech through the whole thing that is unbearable to listen to But i'm still searching for this like promotional copy. It's the only other drum solo i've seen of of wane and garth It's it's less classic than buddy rich, but i'm still searching for it every every couple months You kind of start typing some keywords All right, and then you can do the real disappointment like I had with So there was a there was a rumor there was a video Made in 1984 of buddy rich in spain so okay, i'm on the hunt and i'm looking for it and Months and months go by writing letters to people and this isn't like 1986. So it's still pre Internet and and things and I finally get a guy that says I have it buddy rich in spain And I pay him and of course it's in pow. I can't watch it. So I send it. I pay to get it transferred Get it back put it in It's buddy rich in montreal jazz fest With a spanish announcer and spanish subtitles They took that video and showed it in spain And wow, I originally had gotten it off of bet tv black entertainment television Was showing the jazz festivals for some time in the in the mid 80s So I you know recorded it, but here I now spent you know, probably 300 dollars to get the same version with a spanish speaking announcer overdubbing The regular announcer god, I mean he he wasn't he didn't have ill will but it was just sounds like a miscommunication of like He was spain it came from spain. It was on karmish tv Oh, jeez. Now, can you explain? I actually i'm more familiar with the audio formats, but I always see pow pal What is that format and how does it? Yeah, so what it basically it's the same size as a vhs tape but in europe their television is is Done differently. So they process it over this pow where in the united states. It's ntsc I don't remember what they stand for But if you were to put a pow tape in a regular vcr that played ntsc You wouldn't see anything or hear anything got it. Okay. It has to be put into that Format got it. It's just their Regional right exactly right now. We don't have to worry about it because there's youtube so There is youtube Yeah, which again is great, you know for me It was a collection and I had to you know put it on a machine and watch it and And now it's it's everywhere. Yeah did you have to um worry about Saving these in any type of special kind of humidity or anything like that I mean, I guess they'd been living in someone's garage or basement For 30 years before but did you try and preserve them in a special so I had most of mine? I had gotten either from somebody as a copy Or a recent, you know version of it so that they really never stayed anywhere in my basin was dry And temperature controlled so there was never a problem with mine and then you know about 19 years ago. I started transferring them to dvd And then I would transfer the dvd to an mpeg mp4 You know video so and it's all you know in the cloud I can be anywhere on my phone and show somebody a video because I have it in drop box Yeah, you know, I have so you know, I can show anything. I yeah, it's really easy I mean, it's great. It takes away a little bit of the fun and the ownership of a guy like you Who's been collecting these and it's so important, but now it's just it's for everyone It's like it's been let go and it's it belongs to the world A little bit more, but it's cool You had that special time of like hunting these tapes down and just for the pure joy Of watching buddy play. Well, yeah We used to I know me and a million other people Would look at tv guide to see if he was going to be on Johnny Carson that week Wow, of course, that's That's what you had to do just like as a kid you waited for the Wizard of Oz to come on once a year You know, my kids got to watch it every day if they wanted. Yeah And that leads also to learning how to play You know, we learned by listening A lot of kids today, you know, they learned by By watching somebody you could see buddy videos. You could see john bonham videos Steve gad get louis belson Max you could see and You know, watch what they're doing Kids today are such tremendous players. Yeah, and I really do believe part of that is they have the ability To see versus listening You know to try to figure out what somebody's doing by only listening. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely I mean, you're inundated with it now where there's there's there's so much that you got to know what to watch and and sometimes Too much stuff can be like overwhelming where where when you when you got that one tape and you pop it in and you watch it That's all you're that's all you got right now. Um, but but I think it's definitely a very It's a good time to be a drummer So louis, I mean, this has been unbelievable, especially getting into the tape stuff. I didn't know anything about that. I mean you are One hell of a collector with a lot of different Uh elements to it and one thing that we didn't really touch on that I was I was hoping maybe we could pop over and after we finish this maybe do a quick bonus episode a couple questions We got to talk a little more about buddy. Maybe I can pick your brain on a few of your favorite buddy stories I mean, there's obviously there's a lot of them out there So, um, if you guys want to hear that listening, you can go to drumhistorypodcast.com click the patreon button and join up for as low as two bucks a month and you get to hear from Cool people such as louis who can who can provide a little, you know, some some fun extra stories. So louis, this has been awesome Do you have anything you want to like promote like albums you've played on or youtube or facebook or anything like that while we wrap up? Well, I just would say that the Hudson music Videos of the buddy rich and gene crouppa and drummers drum legends are great Rob Wallace and Paul Segar are great people. They really painstakingly made sure they did the right thing to get these videos out for people when just You couldn't see a lot of buddy back then and having the film clip. So I'm a big fan of the Hudson music videos and you know, just Keep keep those names Somewhere in the back of your mind buddy gene cozy call chick web You know, these are the people that really made drums and drummers Yeah, you know important without them, you know, you wouldn't have a drummer or or doing things that ring go and Dave Clark, you know, these are people that inspired us growing up charlie watts is All great things. So that's you know, keep the collections going Absolutely, and I think you know going back to the original core of this earlier of just talking about downsizing I think you kind of shine a light on it for some people who are maybe Just gobbling up drums right now to think about what am I going to do with this down the road? Or if I have 500 or 600 snare drums like Mike Carrado, that doesn't seem to be bothering him in any way But um, yeah, it's just a really cool kind of perspective on it. So so I also want to say real quick again Thank you to Richard Hirsch. She's just a really nice guy who's who's Emailing me earlier today too. We were going back and forth. So um on that note luis Thank you for being here and sharing your immense knowledge and uh, it's just been awesome So now we'll hop over and do the I'm honored. Thank you. Thank you