 Welcome one and all to the DL debate. Thanks so much for tuning in now on hiding radio or back By the podcast Kevin. How's it going Kevin fury here is producing is ever Kevin You know some bit this man's glow in here. There must be some secret behind the tie after all this Terrible reins go down this will look to cheer you up Of course any Texan any good news attacks and of course away at six six eight twenty five thousand watts up Thanks as ever to even boarding previously for the power or plus and of course don't Kevin a few news coming up in the evening So of course was a small matter of a week kick around in crow park yesterday The great contest that was the all-earn and football final soon I'll be speaking to two guys who have great time for in terms of the views But also great guys to meet up and know one of the best sports writers out there every news is Avis newsman cahro kian also joining me carry legend Mike Frank Russell Later on the show we're gonna run our views across this the hurling world a club hurling championship I'm only speaking to Eugene organ the man is played for Club and county with some honor of course Managed the St. Unions to a championship back in 2021. He's gonna tell us all that's going on there small matter of Ladies Minor final coming up. We're on a bit good news. Well, that's something that the Donegal ladies are looking to do For us the minor ladies. They are playing Waterford and Kenny. God this Saturday We have the likes of David McDermott's our manager Bernie Kearns and coaching them Tony ball Sean boys in there by doubts, of course maxi current the previous senior managers is hard to compete at the top level Winner on the range isn't so these lads have said about trying to put things in place for played limb Remember miners of course at the ladies go straight in the senior. So it's a very very important Part of their development. So yeah, can he get this Saturday be waterford in the All-Ireland Minor final get along and support them as I said in intro We have the small matter of the All-Ireland final the colossus Historical event of Dublin versus Kerry, and now I'm joined by Cairo Keane and Mike Frank Russell. How are you lads? Great great to hear you. It's good to hear you Mike. I'm gonna start with you Mike Frank the history The build-up listen, you know what it's all about these finals. I was trying to get my grasp on it There was so much talk and and match ups and rhetoric But just generally like what was the feeling and Kerry, you know around this all Ireland the importance of it Of course you should were the number one for so long and around your time the dubs the number one now Was it was there a bigger story than a much bigger story than one in all Ireland here? Was it trying to get back to being the number one team in Ireland again? And I suppose stopping the dubs the dubs I suppose attempt of nine medals and and those we background stories with a with a a big part of it also They were you know But I suppose look the media and the supporters would focus in and that kind of stuff But for the players, they were defending champions last year Brunnen and you know, we felt You know, they were the top dog. We fit my spouse. I got it wrong myself I didn't think Dublin were going to be the team three or four years ago. And yes, they came and with like They beat back and their top dog again. So it was a hard one to take for Kerry yesterday because It nearly puts last year's to be final into question Now when they're missing kind of Calle and the Dublin are back up there again So look Kerry have lost finals before we have to get back up in the horse now again But look hats off to Dublin. I think just slightly. They were the better team Yes, and and deserved it was disappointment. We put ourselves in a position to win the game But you know down the stretch the dub the leaders Fintons the Kilkenny's the Howard's the man is they stood up the before we've regularly seen over the last couple years And they got they got the job done, but going into the game Yeah, there was there was fierce brillant probably a lot of that with the supporters to in the history and the razzmatazz, but Yeah, look Kerry apart from maybe Stephen O'Brien and Paul Guiney over Turkey the rest of the relative young team So look, it was a sucker punch yesterday because we took we taught maybe The pendulum was swinging our way after last you're beating them in the semi-final, but look hats off to Dublin Yes, they're back up a number one again on the first day from the Kerry's perspective. Yeah Yeah, well listen Mike Reagan was difficult so fair play for the honest assessment car us neutrals And of course you've been a dirty man. You're nearly not a neutral You could have been up there where we but the red and white on you You nearly you nearly made a car. You made a brave first of it but car build up to this, you know, we we wanted this dream final and Particularly with both forward lanes been so heavy laden with with absolute stars, maybe versus their defense Was it never going to be that way car? Did you always expect I mean? I thought it was going to be to kind of tight techie maybe first half open up But it really was was on aides the whole match was on edge It was probably was an agey game But to be honest, I think it was more to do with the conditions and the approach the teams took like when I saw You kind of there was no huge surprise a care and kill Kenny come on To the Dublin team I was delighted when I saw during the week that Stephen O'Brien was starting for Kerry because Kerry were certainly five orthodox forwards and Dublin were certainly six and to me You know, there was no way then that either team was going to go where approach that they were going to drop way off And I just felt that It kind of got destroyed a tiny bit by the fact that the pitch was so crazy the rain came beforehand And the players were visibly struggling early on to get their feet to get their hand on And with both teams kind of so terrified of turnovers It was the one thing that they wanted to avoid them when they carry the ball into the traffic and get turned over and And it just meant that I think the game got played with a wee bit of fear of that As opposed to ever really truly opening out even though like there were loads and loads of turnovers And that that kind of summed it up because teams were still they were trying to absolutely damn this to avoid them but they were still getting turned over so regularly and because a Big factor in that too was the fact that David got off with the referee and that is you know He allows the contact more him and Brett and Collie were the two in line for the final and they both Are the most consistent in terms of referee in the contact and allowing For the ball to be turned over in the tackle and so that that combination of factors just It did it took a wee age out of the game and a wee bit disappointed that I think had it been a dry day I think it could have been a really really good final because the two teams from their lineups You could see they wanted to go and both won it and I think we just had that stripped off as a wee tiny bit Did you think did you think Mike Frank that it's a good point about car Dublin and yourselves want to attack the game. That's why teams love you so much But then again, you have maybe the talent to do that But there's a few suppose incidents there I felt the one maybe a ganons tackle on on chain Ryan He seemed to get about a treatment that first half that he maybe look at Ryan before he really had him There was a few maybe McCarthy as well. It took a while for a yellow card to come Did you think that maybe got I mean I thought he did really well overall He tried to let the game flows what I want But it was maybe from a carry perspective a couple of tackles going on You're thinking what's a yellow, you know, and would have put people under serious pressure Yeah, I agree 100% everything what care said there like It's a pity the rain did come because it just could have been a blockbuster It was it was brilliant as it was But I think even there was one or two balls even within Paul Guiney there in the first half And he just nearly got it in the corner But just get it out just the skin of the surface just talk it was David got to be fair I thought he rested very well I you know, I I wouldn't be that great OK, there's one or two maybe cars James McCarty played on the edge of small with the Clifford Fitzsimmons The free in or where the hot ball after was busy being but other than that You know, I thought he got most calls fairly spot on to be fair to him Look, he's one of the top rest in the country But just going back to you know, you've tried to pick up where where Dublin won the game or where Kerry lost it. But my opinion from the start of the game, Dublin tackle really hard. They really set up their stall. They were really intense. They got it. They pushed up and Kerry once Kerry hit the 45 Where's Kerry? I thought we're a bit past it. They left him command us a bit more. But Dublin really put serious pressure on the half back line coming up to feel and they forced us down the left channel away from Clifford's corner. They obviously worked hard on that and it was going down there on mine and Paul Geeney side a lot, but I had stuff to Dublin for doing that. And they they they tried to suck Kerry down that side away from Clifford. So but no, the referee, I think I think he refs his best. He's good. There's always going to be one or two instances, Brendan, where maybe so maybe so. But overall, I thought I thought he did a fantastic job to be fair. Yeah, I agree. Listen, it's a tough thing to be doing there. Wouldn't fancy his job. Just that first half, Mike Franks talking about there, when Dublin were breaking, they looked like they were breaking. They were sucking Kerry and the better Kerry were very methodical and their buildup was very much play it through the hands. There never seemed to be a kick pass on. But that's the speed of which Dublin were clogging up the gaps. And as Mike said, Clifford didn't wasn't in the game at all, which was perfect for them. Dublin kind of looked like they were in control of it. Then they had the buying of the the bit of brilliance in a course from Clifford, which had to come into the game. He goal was question marks about a potential hop. But listen, I think he just about gets a benefit of the doubt. But Kerry going on at halftime then buoyed by that, you know, they must have been they must have been a happier team at halftime because I felt that Dublin were the more dangerous team in terms of the counterattack. Yeah, I would totally agree. I thought Dublin were the better team in the first half. I thought Kerry were the better team for the majority of the second half. But probably will fail to be fair. They probably feel in some regards that they left it behind because of the nature of the goal that they gave up. It was such a cheap turnover, you know, such a cheap ball to give away in such a dangerous position that, you know, Dublin almost couldn't feel to score a goal from where they turned it over. And there is there is I've been saying it all year. I, you know, I put my neck out a couple of months ago. I said, I didn't think Dublin would win the All-Ireland. I didn't see how they would want it. But the one thing that they had to their advantage was if they got you stripped of the ball, they're still the best team in Ireland at Hurtney on the break. And I think we saw that yesterday. There was a point that Paul Manion kicked in the first half into the canal end where Dublin turned the ball over 25 yards in their own goal and about five of them broke a break next speed. Manion made the run in behind and got the ball. For a second, you thought the goal was on, but he kicked the point. There were chances that Kerry stripped the ball and it was just lower. It was it didn't come out with the same intensity or the same numbers that that they would have carried the same threat. And largely, I think Kerry again, slightly back the conditions and also make Frank pointed out there as well, rightly that Dublin did a lot of work on keeping the ball out of the channel that Clifford likes to get it in. I think Kerry never quite got to play the game that they wanted to play. And probably managed fairly well, considering all that. But it just the running game, I don't think is as strong as as. I think Derry would have made a better fist of the conditions in some ways in that they would have been more suited to that structured kind of game that would have broke down a team well set up in those conditions. Whereas I think Kerry were lots of one off runners, one up runners and and going into tackles and then getting turned over kind of repeatedly and to repeatedly and, you know, for all that, we're still three points up and in a real good position and looking at that stage because we're going to win it. And, you know, there were still a couple of they kicked four wide in six, seven minutes between about the 54th and 64th minute when they looked in control and ready to just put Dublin away. They just kicked those wide in that time. Thomas Oliver's wide Clifford's off his right foot. Trying to remember the others, but, you know, they had four chances that they missed and that just Clifford's one dropped on the Coxons hands. Sorry, that was the other one. They just left it behind. I would say I think they were the better side for most of the second half. But the goal that they conceded just really, really hurt them. Yeah. And the goal, my Frank, was was listen, and O'Connor rattled the bar just before it there and cows on it with those those periods of the game. As a supporter sitting in this and you've been there and done it. How how gut wrenching is that? Because you're thinking yourself, you know, you're playing Dublin here. We need to take these chances, you know, and Jack O'Connor's quarter is saying that even after the goal, there was a response, but it took so much out of the team. And, you know, in the modern game now, now, Mike Frank, pacing energy is so, so important. That's why the subs coming on are so vital, you know, come back to kind of the early days we were playing, you know, you might have an odd sub coming on now. They're absolutely vital for that energy. So it was funny that he had said that that took so much out of him. Was that was that your feeling to make that these these missed chances were that they couldn't happen? Dublin were going to hit a purple patch. Yeah. And Joe goes back to Kair's point there when we were coming out about we were just not as casey as Dublin when they were coming out and as a result, given why we just well done it for a second and we got turned over and bang, it was game on. We're in fair juice to carry. They went three ahead again, but we couldn't get that four point, that four point, what I called insurance against Derry. We were able to do that, but maybe we're out in our feet at that stage and then enters Jack Flash, Jack McCaffrey. And I thought he did a lot of damage to us with his legs. He just we ended up just have to fall in the whole time. He he did a lot of damage to us, I thought, to be honest. And we can't blank him on for more than she got a point, but we didn't have the same impact as they had against Derry. And that was probably deciding factor then going down the stretch, which was the unfortunate thing about starting Stephen O'Brien, you know, in terms of that. One other thing, my friend, she and Ryan, you know, obviously, Clarkson doesn't come out. The Dublin don't ever need to see him to come out. He did make a few breaks out in the first half. Now, I thought that might have been an accident. Even Dublin were sitting deep. It's a wet day. You want to avoid a tackle. One way to do that is to get an overload off someone else, create a bit of problem. Do you think he could have been a bit more adventurous in the game? Yeah, because Ryan plays full for the club. He got a point against Derry. No, it's not, I suppose it's not naturally carrying Dublin's game for the two keepers to come out. But in the last game or two, she and Ryan has been a bit more adventurous. But yeah, maybe it was an option. We could have explored more because there might have been a point and a point or two in a game like this is huge. It's absolutely huge, you know. But go back to the sub-impact in where Kerry forced to start, see him with Ryan, with Tony Brosnan being withdrawn through sickness. I think he might have been a loss to his shooter close in towards the end of the game. We we could have done it maybe another another forward to help Clifford as well as Killian Spillane, you know. It's small, Martin, you know, you could be talking about these things. But look, from the 60 when he went to 1.30 each, then, as I said, even Kymorphy came on, he was an option for the kick-outs for Dublin. They seemed to have been made a small bit more impact, I thought, for Dublin. Yeah, a little bit of to you. There's deep, deep discussions going on down in Kerry now, Mike Frank. I can only imagine some of the stuff that's happened because they will be licking wounds and and probably very soon planning another attack, just just around Dublin. And, you know, I know you went out in a limb saying, no, listen, you've got to do that from time to time, haven't you? You've got to go out and call it. Otherwise, you're just sitting down. And listen, fair play to you. You have to be wrong the odd day. Even somebody as knowledgeable as you. No, I'm on record last week, doubling by two, OK? So, no, I sort of put my money in my mouth first. But do you know what man I highlighted? Kehar was Manian. And I know he did kick a few wide as well as his points, but I just felt that in this game, if both teams were sitting a bit deep, that it was going to take somebody a bit rangey to be able to kick the ball over the bar. And I couldn't see anybody to match him on the other side. Now, I'm surprised. Listen, he had an absolutely phenomenal game. And as I said, he still kicked four wide, but he did kick five points. Was that the key? Maybe when you break it down, was his bit of quality from range across the two teams from what we were kind of expecting from everybody else? I thought, to be fair, I think Manian has got progressively better as the year has gone on and was probably his best performance yesterday. He kicked a couple of big scores for them that they probably hadn't been getting there. One of the reasons that I thought they wouldn't one, the other one was because of their shot selection and their execution was was when you looked at them was really letting them down in games. And I suppose against weaker opposition, they were still creating so many opportunities that it didn't matter. But I felt when it came to it that those things were going to come back to bite them. But Manian really sort of had a stride towards the tail end of it. And he was there's no doubt about it, a massive impact. And I think Frank mentioned there, he's right. Jack McAfrey was was enormous in that game yesterday. Kerry did not really know what to do with him other than foul him. They just couldn't really do anything else with him. And and they just resorted to to that. So those couple of big obviously returns. Cluckston's even his impact, you know, because. People shouldn't look past the two dead balls that he kicked, because, you know, obviously Dean Rock's career looks like it's at its end by judging by his comments after the game yesterday, like and hasn't really been in the team. And they don't really have that reliable a free ticker on either side. You know, not they don't have a shot on a she on on either side of the field. And for Cluckston, who hasn't kicked scores for for, I don't know, when his last score was in a big championship game. To come up yesterday and nail the first point of the game as if, you know, it was totally, I suppose, so much experience. But they were two big, big scores as well in the context of of doubling, not passing up those kind of opportunities that they were going to need to crawl over the line, basically. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. And Mike, just looking across your team, you know, you want to go out and play well. There didn't seem to be maybe, I suppose, them standout players. It was very workman, like, I think both teams in terms of putting on a shift. That was number one. But maybe some of your players to excel, you know, I thought maybe Tom Sullivan did well, you know, Tag Morley did well. Obviously, she and Ryan, you know, his kickouts, I think he got 21 to 24 to the green and gold men. You know, I thought maybe Jim O'Connor O'Connor broke broke even. Jack Barry probably lost his battle to Fenton, you know, outside of that, you know, Sean O'Shea, very quiet second half. Stephen O'Brien did well. Potty Clifford hit them three points in that spell. You'd have to say they're OK. And Ganey, when I was looking at last week, Mike Frank, I thought Ganey was really going to have to have a big game, a wee bit like Manian on the other side. I thought they were the players that maybe could want to lose the game. And Ganey did well, but again, taken off. You know, what would you be feeling on Ganey being taken off? And really, you know, a lot of the players not really finding their best form, which was a bit similar to the semi-final as well. Would that be a bit of a worry? Yeah, look, I think, look, the derby game, it went down the stretch as well. And 15 minutes in the derby game, we didn't score. For the first half, yes, only three points. And 15 minutes in the second half didn't score. So it is a worry. It came back to haunt us a bit with being too reliant on David. I thought we could have played Paul Ganey's side a bit more, but Dublin in fairness, they shoved us down that left side. They kept us, you know, and they put bodies back. They cut off the channel to Clifford. So hats off to them. But you're going through the players there who play well. I suppose Dublin had that 11 or 12 players. We had the eight or nine. They just had that few extra players that played better as on the day. I thought we were a bit conservative too. We did Dublin just had that extra, but it may be off the bench to Jack McAfrey's that little bit extra just to get him over the line. But it was so tight, it was just looking was tight margins. I mean, God almighty, you know, Kerry could be champions today. If they got that four point, but they got it against Derry, but look, yeah, I suppose the pinching pack for Dublin was slightly bit better. But I think a man who hasn't got much mention today, there's Colin Bascale. I thought he was massive second half. He kicked two points to turn over for the goal. He walked his socks off. He set up fintan for the lead score and he got forward for the Rocks 3-D in. So he's a massive second half for a lad who had a quite first half, you know, with Bascale and as the car said, the man stood up and he probably had it in order for the player to exit and Kerry to stand up. And that's just a fine margin, you know. Yeah, my friend asked you the point that could equalise it, which could have taken it to a draw, I think, from Clifford. You know, listen, he was unlucky. His radar was a bit off. The one that Kehar mentioned earlier, the one he took on, there's right foot. You know, listen, the guy's a great right foot. He's an absolutely god of a left foot. You would not believe a left foot yourself. Would you rather there to go tiny steps to your left and try and dink, dink that? And all those tackles coming in, you get set up on your right. What would you be happier doing there? You would probably kick it over your right hand then off, but the rest of us on the weak foot. The one thing about it was the both defenses were on top from both sides for a lot of the game. Yes, any scores, I just don't seem to get, maybe it does, the man in the score. But it seemed to have a little bit extra more time. Whereas any carry scores double or does a boot down there. You know, they were hard down. Even the two points that Clifford got mixed assignment was still there diving in at the last second. So I don't, I don't, I think Dave was right to shoot. Clint Splank came on. We were looking for someone else to take the burden. So David talked to responsibility. No qualms of him doing that. Most days they were going over. He's the type of player that he's entitled to take the shot. So I don't know, I know some people say no, worked a percentage shot back around, but Clifford, it's always on. So no qualms there, you know. Yeah, and Cara, where does that kind of do you think leave the season? Because we were talking about it, like I was talking to you way back about this wide open championship when we were making a case for teams. You know, Galway were kind of fancied in there as ever. As every season we could cut up on a bit of my old hype. You know, after that people were thinking possibly a drone, maybe a dairy. You know, we're saying anybody could have tilted it. Do you think that what you've seen at the weekend there means that these teams are anyway further ahead? Or do you think those teams that I mentioned aren't that far off? And could still challenge these sides next season? No, I think it's very much the latter. I think it's very much that there is an all Ireland or two there to be one by other counties over the next few years. I think we'll see a few of the Dublin retirements again. I think you might see Clarkson again. You might see McCarthy again. You might see Rock again. And it is going to be, you know, the struggled without them. You don't know how fulfilled Jack McAfrey will have been by here given his injury troubles and actually played so little of the championship when he did come in. So does he stick about, you know, there's those question marks over Dublin. And they're not the team that they were. You know, they're not the robotic control and outfit that just dominated and pummeled their way to all Ireland. So nobody could touch them. They're not that team. Kerry, I actually wrote on Saturday before the game that Kerry don't look like a team that are sort of set up mentally to dominate football the way that that Dublin team did. Yeah, I think talent-wise, you know, obviously they won five minor All-Irelanders in a row and there should be enough stuff there that when Dublin are getting pushed out of the way, Kerry are the team that are there. But Clifford and Deer Middle Connor are both 25 before the end of the year there, the two youngest players on the starting team. No obvious sign of on the bench where there's three or four superstars ready to be blooded in attack or ready to be pushed in. And I think Kerry's style of play, they're not as methodical and they're not as willing to get down the road of sucking the life out of a game they want to play football and for everybody else, you know, there's a lot of days that means you're going to get absolutely bathed by them. But when it comes a day like Sunday where Clifford is a wee bit off, then there's human and there's opportunities to beat them. And I think Derry showed that they can mix it in a different way from everybody that's seen them capable of mixing it. I think Galway will come back. I think Mayo will get stronger and we'll look at the first half of their performance against Dublin where I thought they played by far the better football in the first half of that game and only for making a mistake in their man-marking arrangement of cornerback on bascale. They probably would have been five or six points up. And, you know, so I think the All Ireland could be very open for the next couple of years. The two at the top are still probably a nose or a half ahead in front, but they're not heading shoulders the way that Dublin team would have been nor near it. Yeah, well, you get McGinnis back in, we'll be a few bands got back together. I think that seems to work well, Cahar. We'll get rid of that statement, that's the last statement we'll see it again. Yeah, Mike Frank, you must enjoy hearing this possible retirement. I know, listen, as a carry man, you never, you want to beat the best, but listen, there will be a change over there and well, Eric Desi Farrell said enough of us and a very awkward tenure, you know, in terms of All Ireland this first year, you've got no respect for it. And then the couple of semi-final defeats, you know, Clarkson and probably end up having his own chattel with the amount and or something like that, maybe surprises, you know, but, Mike Frank, just, you know, Kerry, we're so far away, we're the most further, two furthest away counties. Like, we're looking at Dublin now, like, there's Dublin now, it's there, we've done it all, there's a lot of blood in them, you know, obviously, so many of us end up in Dublin, you know, listen, you're way down there, I mean, I often wonder what's happening in Kerry and Kerry, obviously, mentioned underage pushing that. Was there this massive feeling, you know, obviously, 2019, you had the drawing game, you pushed that brilliant Dublin team, they were going for five in a row at the time, to the pin of their collar, beating the replay, it was there a feeling that it was all, all out attack on Dublin, that everything had to be done from underage, up the strange Peter Keane era there, where you just tried to go a bit defensive, couldn't get the mix right, and you know, through COVID now, it was kind of, it was kind of boring football, it wasn't football that Kerry were used to, then Jack O'Connor comes in, gives the whole thing a lift. So as you mentioned, the age range is good there, the underage, so certainly Kerry are on up and up, I mean, if many ways there could be, there could be more of a lift from this team than from the Dublin side. Yeah, and I just really comment from Jack O'Connor today, you know, the age profile, look, it's, it's a good enough, it's, you know, the majority team are 25, 26, coming to that right age at the prime, but look, as he said, the other element, it's still there on the line, you still have to go and win this, they're not an easy one, you know. Look, I taught during the week that Dublin, they bought back clocks and Paul Mannion, I taught maybe it's hard to go back, that you can't go back to clock, wind back to clock, and it was a mistake, but I was wrong, but you know, it was a small margin, just so we could be having a different conversation today, and if Kerry went on and got the four points and pushed on, you'd be saying, yeah, it was a mistake, the Kerry were right, they're going to take over now, so look, yes, it was devastating, but look, we've got a championship coming up now, the club and there'll be young lads, hopefully around the county on the 3-1 panels, hopefully trying to break into the team, and well, they should have the ambition to be getting in there and hopefully challenging again next year, but look, Kerry and Dublin, they're still the two best teams in the country, from what I've seen, yes, and they're probably just a nose ahead of, but yeah, you have the teams underneath in the Galway, can they push on next year, the other teams, things like that, you know, but yeah, still a bright future for Kerry and Dublin as well, they're, look, I'm sure that it's going to inspire another generation of young Dublin footballers and development squads up there as well, but I suppose McCurry's expected, we'll be glad to sit in the back of, if James McCarty, if he does retire, what a fantastic footballer, you know, it hits off to him. Frank, you don't think there's something there with the number 10 in terms of wanting to get there, 10? Would that be a thing or what do you think? Well, I think with Stephen Clarkson, you can never put it past them, you know, I think the man's a gymnast, you know, but look, I'm sure they said, even in the commentary in the Sunday game last night, and today some of those players have come out and said it was their sweetest one ever, as the fact they've been written off the last two years, so look, nothing but admiration from down here in Cury, but just one word too, and the two Clifford boys did a tough year this year with Burring their mother, Dave is 24 years of age, he's a superstar down here, every kid down here wants to be David Clifford, and they've been fantastic ambassadors for Cury this year, and after a tough year for them personally as well, you know. Yeah, very, very tough year, very brave of them to come out and play after, die well down there. That was a good line he said about Clarkson, you can never put it past them, maybe he didn't mean that the way it came out, but Paul Guine might argue with you on that one. Kehar, is that kind of the reading of it then that these two footballing powerhouses can be caught, there's going to be ups and downs with them? Can you see Desi Farrell staying on, Kehar? I mean, if you were him, I think all of us would think, right, you've kind of proved yourself now, or the Pat Gilroy factor in the background there, you know, to have people of his calibre around there, he just seems like, I mean, there's such good word in them in terms of maybe it was him pulled the whole thing back together and got the best of Dublin as well, not taking it any way from Desi, listen, he won the Rage, All-Irelands, and that was an unbelievable player himself, but should they leave Dublin, there's always that opportunity for a bit of a turnover, and those players are such core players, and Kehar, listen, I was out having a couple of 00 stouts there in Ghidor last night, as you do, and it was, I just caught the end of something there, they were discussing the player of the year, and they went for McCarthy, I'm not asking to make Frank, because I just caught Tomás, which I said he was outvoted, but where would you be feeling, was he the most standout player for you this season? No, outside the final, I thought it was a shoe-in for David. David, this is it, funny I had this conversation this morning, I actually, I would have said a couple of weeks ago that I felt that it was going to take something fairly special to take football of the year off McCarthy at that stage, but I think the problem in fairness, the problem that David Clifford has is that you could just, you know, you could write his name on the bottom of that trophy every year from now till 2035, because he's going to be the best footballer in Ireland for each one of those years, and there's no disputing that. He is the best footballer in Ireland by an absolute country-made, so it's almost as if you have to kind of accept that he's not, he can't win it every year, so you have to look at those wee bits where he's maybe just imperfect, or the wee bits where he just drops a wee tiny, so it's probably completely unfair that he's going to be judged to a completely different standard from anybody else has ever been, but he is that exceptional of a footballer that it's nearly the only thing you can do. Otherwise, you're just going to have football of the year for 10 years consecutive and not be able to give it to anybody else, like, and that's right. So McCarthy, I thought, had his worst game of the year last, or yesterday, you know, he was probably lucky enough, he didn't get the line, you know, he walked the line on four or five fouls, and wasn't a particularly huge influence on the game, but an influence on every other game this year and a huge influence on Dublin. And I just, I love him. I love the style of play that he has. I love that, I love those types of leaders that just, you can tell that he doesn't say much, like Bernard Brogan described in his book, because our big silver back gorilla, you know, he just, he just does things. He just, he leads by example, and he plows through tackles and he mixed tackles and he, and I think people respond to that as much as they respond to people talking as well. So if he gets it, I'd be delighted for him. I think he's had a brilliant year. And, but equally, like if they give it to David Clifford, my God, who's going to argue, really? He only has the four all stars at this stage too. I do feel sorry for him. Mike Frank, listen, will they just go shortly? Your only fear now would be that the Saudis come in and put a bit in for David and buy him off. Has he played other sports? I suppose he doesn't really have time. He doesn't look like a guy. He looks like a guy who could literally do anything. Basketball included. Well, he's a PE teacher by profession. So I'm sure he's deadling in a lot of sports, but he's students in the school. So yeah, he looks like he could take his hand to anything. Yeah, he played a wee bit of soccer when he was younger. He would have took to the soccer when he was a cub. And then he made a decision sort of fairly early on and stuck with a ghillie from there. But he's a big Celtic fan, like he'd be over the park head of Fairbottom and be engaged there that way, but I think it's... There's a lot of chat about the AFL, we him for a while as well, but I don't think it was ever. Thank God he decides to stay. Yeah, thank God, yeah. Mike, that's not something that you think he's closed the book on, that? I would think so, yeah. Yeah, he's 24 now, and he's not old by now, means Jesus, but I think for the AFL, that's probably, it probably needs to be going over earlier, maybe 21, 22, you'd imagine would be to cut off there, but I might be wrong, you know? I can't believe he didn't snap me in New York that time we were out there. Maybe they'd seen all the carry-hobe we were at, they were like, no, we don't need any Egypts about like these. But no, just to be there yesterday with Kerry, you know, it's a fantastic atmosphere. It was edge of the seat stuff. It came to the 68 metres, one 13 each, and you're like, who's going to go for it here? But the free injured, it was turned over for the hot ball, Dublin went down the field, and basketball was involved in that as well. But Finton, there, you know, they just made the right decisions there. It was the clutch moments, and they had more players to stand up there. And it was just, you know, part of your shame, God rest some great manager, us with Kerry, you say a grain of rice with tip to scales, and I just deck him into my head, just say it was a grain of rice. That's just tip to scales in Dublin's favour. And all that congratulations to them. That's it, Mike Frank. Listen, we'll be talking again. Thanks very much, Alas, for someone all that up. That was a great chat here this evening. I'll speak to you as the year goes on somewhere down the tracks. Thanks, Alas, thank you. Yeah, Mike Frank, also there, Kara O'Kane, two great men, really enjoyed that. Someone up yesterday's fair in the All Ireland football final. Dublin coming through champs again. As I said, at the top of the show, I'm going to speak with Eugene Organ now after the break, just on the Donegal Club Championship scene. What would you love to remind you? Underway, it's not too late to secure your new Nissan. With the all-electric leaf, the petrol and hybrid juke, the new X-Trail available in a five or seven-seater four-wheel drive e-power hybrid, and the Nissan Cash Guy petrol and e-power hybrid, all available for immediate delivery. Visit iMotors and LetterCanny to find out more. Open six days a week. Bingo every Monday night at the Halfway House Burnfoot. 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Eugene Orgen, Eugene, how are you this evening? Not too bad, Bernard, thanks for having me. You're keeping well? I'm struggling away. Struggling away, no better man. Eugene, I was just looking at... I didn't realise you were a bit of a dual player before you came back up to ALK here. You were at college and you were up and down and you committed decent unions. We mean you could have played together, but you only... You kept to the small ball, you kept your football away from me. Anyway, I didn't see you out kicking the big ball. No, you were too much of a star. You're a very feted injury, yeah? Well, do you know what? Talking about being injured, I had played a wee bit from Dortmund, I was a kid, and when the hurling could start it up, I was mad to come out and play a match, but Mickey Gibbons banned me. Cos he tried to play and I think he broke his hand or broke a bone in his hands and he came on me a cast on. He showed it to me, he said, You're out, you're out. But of course, they let Mark Crossham play cos he already will tell Crossham what to do, but Crossham was a good old soldier for us as well. I was, he was very athletic, kind of a fellow, you know, he kind of a fellow, put his head where he wouldn't put it hurly, like, you know, he was very, very committed, you know. He was a really good guy in my confidence, you know. And tell me, Eugene, we had another great season here at Donegal in terms of the competitive nature of 2B and somewhere for years we couldn't be at. Eugene, as the county thing and the club thing is one pulling up the other, how do you see the general scene now with the new clubs that have come in and the extra hurling being played around the county? Yeah, it's a combination of both. It's a combination of very good underage structures within the county, good club structures, and then that feeds into the county. And then the county, like under Mickey McCann, very shrewd operator, very, very good seller. And then he's brought in coaches as well, which has developed. But like, it all started with Donegal, being able to stay in 2B of the league for a couple of years and exposure to the better teams and the better, faster type of hurling has helped, like, you know, and then that feeds into the championship then in the Nicky Rackard, you know. Yeah, and we're always lucky, of course, to have a few people that come like yourself from more hurling heartlands in terms of maybe their impact, in terms of pulling up the players around them and that. You see, there's a big influence in Donegal with different people that come in and really help the clubs and, you know, become adopted Donegal, man. Well, that's true, I suppose. Donegal has been very welcome until I had some from outside the county or also especially, and then Stantel had a few in there, which has helped. But look, there's always been good hurlers, like, within the county, you know, you'll always have, in every single county, you'll have 10, 15 outstanding players. Like, you know, but the difficulty is they've done it two or three in each club, whereas, you know, down in the stronger counties, you know, you have 15, 20, 30 players and you can pick four or five of them, really good players, you can pick four or five of them from each club and then you have a really, really strong under a county panel. But, yeah, no, like I said, David Flannaby, in the end, over the last number of years, very, very good hurler, you know, Deccan Couture has come in there to Stanta as well. Our own Darren Malicha has come up from Dublin, and look, they all, they bring a bit more and then lads want to kind of emulate what they're doing and be as good as them and just strives on and train and then that's how you become better, you know? Yeah, and so far this season, usually we've seen, of course, the powerhouse of Stanta and the Junans racking up big scores in games, you know? You know, we're at semi-final stage. Now, have you seen the progression from the other teams? You know, obviously, Don Lowe's in there now, McCool's, Cairndorah, Sideslickette. Can you see progression with them in terms of ever getting up that level? I know you yourself in 21, you know, it was at that stage that you looked like Stanta was going to absolutely boss, the Donegal Club Championship scene, but you know, you just managed to pull together a brilliant season of winning and the Junans have kicked on from there as well. But for the other teams to get up to that level, can you see progression there? Yeah, look, there is progression, but just, I suppose, at different stages. If you were to say at the start of the year, pick your four semi-finalists, we're looking at the four that are actually in the semi-final. But, you know, McCool, they're just at a stage now where they're developing, they're going to have to wait a couple of years to bring the younger fellas that are coming through. Cairndorah have made great strides, you know, they've become fairly competitive. And then you have Bally Shanner and the same boat, they have a good underage structure there and there's good young fellas coming through. And then the lowest boat out the west, you know, they are, they're a great outfit out there, in fairness to them, like, and they're keeping hard on going out there, they're just small, but isolated out there, I suppose. And then it's really, you know, a lot of football around them. But no, the more senior teams we can have within the county, the better, because then you can start picking four or five of the best and then that feeds into the hurling again. But, look, it is what it is at the minute, it'll probably take a couple of years for those aforementioned teams to get up to the levels and say where the Boards, the Santos, the Unans are at the minute, Bunkrana. But look, it's a work in progress and there's been some great work done within the county and within those clubs. Yeah, and listen, can you, obviously we're, it's looking like it means a ton of huge favourites to get to the semi. St. Unans and Burt, you know, Burt were waiting for this Burt team to come back. There was no doubting that it would at some stage. Like they went through a bit of a barn phase in terms of some of their legends of the game retiring. There always was going to be that when you had such a dominant team, but they're on the way back as well. Could always pull out a performance. So that's a real exciting semi-final coming up. But is this Saturday, is it, using Friday or Saturday? No, Friday, sorry, Friday evening. Friday evening, it's fun. Yeah, it's going to be a very close game. I think the other semi-final, no disrespect to Bunkrana, but I don't think at the minute they have the overall team to trouble Satanta to admit in the earlier stages of the championship. I think Satanta won by 10 points. Missed the leg sticks and could turn them. So it would probably be a similar scoreline. And as for Burt and St. Unans, Unans were down to Burt and won easily in the group stage. But to me, that was pure shadow boxing by Burt because they were missing four or five of their normal starting 15. And the one thing I noticed that there wasn't a roar out of them, not even a roar of the management. It looked like a recon mission in my eyes. And they were just sitting back and just say, look, we'll see what you have and we'll meet you there on the air. Look, it's going to be a very close game. Unans have a bit of a worry with Sean McVeigh. He picked up a hand injury there a number of weeks back and it doesn't seem to make much progress with us. On the other side, then Burt lost Rona McDermott there to an injury in the Intercounty scene with ACL. Limo McKinney, very reliable free-taker and a good player. He's a doubt for them. Kristi McDermott didn't play the last night. Look, it's going to be a very, very close game. And it will be swung on just the fitness of the both panels. And it's always to say, you know, hand and heart, it's always to say if both teams are full of strength and the Unans are at themselves, then I would go about Unans by a score or two, but there'll be nothing else. Yeah, yeah, well, listen, I tried to ring Sean. Actually, today, that must have been a sore hand because he didn't answer the phone. So he's listening now. He picked up, picked up, used the other hand. Bring him private in the future, I said, but no. What a player he's been. So this, this, Adam, the juggernaut, do you think that they're still in poor position? You know, it's going to take something amazing if they do get to the final. Whoever comes over the other side, they will be the team to beat using. Yeah, looking at the year so far, like they won all their games comfortably. And, you know, they've been missing a couple of their noted players like Dexon culture, especially, like he picked up a nasty hand injury there in an inter-county game. And like he's a massive player for them, but they're such good forwards, you know, to have Lixie Rory Campbell and Jared Gilmore and Bernard Lafferty, you know, just to name a few, like, you know, they're overall they are a good team, but look, everyone can be beaten on the day, you know, everyone can be turned over on the day. But at the minute, they're probably our favourite twin to championship this year. Yeah, and just overall game now, the S&C involved in it, it seems to be nearly exploding. Well, particularly with a team like Lamerick, when you look at them in that final, is that putting a lot of pressure on people to be gymming it up? And, you know, obviously the skills of Hurling is unbelievable, but the power involved in it now in terms of breaking the tackle and, of course, being strong in the tackle to hold boys up, it's such a huge part of the game now that you want to get numbers around, you want to be strong, and then you want to burst out that tackle. Like, that takes a lot, a lot of gym work. Is that putting a lot of pressure? You know, county teams are going to do it, but club teams as well to have lads just training constantly, you know, the commitments must be huge. They have, like, you're starting, like, the season is not over a month or six weeks when lads are having their programmes and they're back in the gym again, like, because you have to get up to a level to try and match. The lads are coming off into the county, you're seen, you know, into clubs, like you're going to be marked and say, whoever you're marking, like Danny Cullin or Sean McVeigh or whoever you're marking, like, you know, you have to be able to match them for size, speed, you know, aggression, just sheer power, like, and it is putting a lot of pressure. It puts more pressure even on dual players, you know, because they're trying to do it for the hurling and the football, like, every club in Donegal, maybe it's Cetanta side, maybe one or two players with red shoes, but you have five or six dual players and they're being, you know, they're being asked to train with the hurlers and with the footballers and they're training programs for hurlers, they're training programs for footballers and it really is, it really is asking a lot of lads, and you know, and you see an awful lot of ACL injuries and other injuries starting to younger and younger lads are seem to be getting injured far more frequently. Yeah. You know, you know, where that boils down to the strength and conditioning or maybe not doing, they're over working some muscles and, you know, under working others or whatever, like, because lads are just getting their programs and told to do it themselves. You know, if you're not doing things properly, you can overbuild them most, and you know, there just seems to be an awful lot more injuries. It maybe has something to do with strength and conditioning, I'm not sure. I'm just thinking, Eugene, it looks like, you know, even if you forget about counting, but obviously it's senior level. If you've a decent senior team, then it's nearly impossible now to operate them both and all the lads have their own Sean McVeigh and a few lads would have done it well, but it seems that as the pressure goes up, it's going to be a more harder thing to do, you know? I'm just getting a tick from a clock here from Kevin here. The news is coming up. Eugene, that was a great chat. Sir, listen, we'll chat to you as the championship unfolds here and we'll get your views on the champions whoever comes through, OK, as the week's going on. No problem. Love you. Thanks, Shatton. OK, bye-bye. Appreciate it there, Eugene Oregon. Kevin, thank you very much, Eugene. Appreciate it as ever. I want to keep Kevin right here and I'm going to be producing the show. We had a sport wash in Kelly. Stay tuned for the excellent Monday night sessions. Jimmy and Paul are in the house, ready to get things rocking and I'll speak to you all next week.