 Good evening to you and thank you for joining us on Y254 Updates. My name is Patricia Murioki and tonight we talk about a very interesting topic and tonight we're talking about women political participation. We just try to see what are the barriers that probably are entering Kenyan women to fully participate in the political arena. We try to look at how can we overcome these barriers. We have the two that gender rule that has not been implemented for the past nine years. We saw the CJ advise the president to dissolve parliament because of lack of implementation of that bill and to help us talk about this topic tonight I would not have thought of any other people than two young women leaders doing amazing things in their community. We have Anitambaye who is a youth leader. She's also the program coordinator young women leaders connect and she has served as a student leader that he's in Deicita University and then we have Wendy Aura who is a young leader herself doing really amazing things, empowering the culture in this country. She's the executive director young women leaders connect and talk to us across our social media platforms that is at Y254 channel you can also reach me at Patricia Muriuki feel free to reach out and tell us what do you think can be done to make sure that our women our young women and also women who have been there what changes can they make to make sure that our women who are coming up have opportunities are able to be aware of every chance that he's in the political arena welcome to the discussion. Hi hello ladies. Hi how are you? I can say I'm very happy to have you again I've had each one of you but on a very different and a different topic but I'm happy to have you to today and my first question or rather than before we get to the discussion I'd like to look at different statistics. We have South Africa that has 44 percent that is the number of the percentage of women participation in the parliament. We have Rwanda that starts at 61 percent and then we have as of 2013 Kenya was at 19 19.48 percent but there has been an increase that is looking at 20 the 2013 election to the 2017 election there has been an 18 percent increase in terms of women participation. What are your thoughts? Let's start with you Anita. What are your thoughts on women leadership in Kenya and as much as today we are focusing on politics probably you can give that opinion cutting across us sectors that is also corporate we can look also at business what is your thoughts on women leadership in this country. First of all Patricia let me really thank you for having me on the show. It's always a pleasure to be here and to discuss about various topics. So first of all when we talk about women political participation this is a this is a very close topic that is close to my heart because I really love the empowerment of women and I love seeing women succeed and let me start by saying that when you talk about women political participation this is a matter of inclusive growth this is a matter of human rights and this is also a matter of sustainable development because when you talk about sustainable development how do we develop as communities how do we develop as governments women have to be at the center of it and once you include women in governance and in politics there are better policies honestly Patricia because women think domestic women think children women think of how best they can reach societies so it's definitely a good thing that women included in political participation but well we've had gains and we we've got of course things that we can do better but I believe we are going to be evolving into that. Okay Wendy what is your thoughts as a young upcoming leader someone I'm very sure like I followed you and I've seen your passion for leadership and I know one day I'm going to see you serve this country in a certain position whether elected or appointed what are your thoughts on leadership that is women leadership in this country. Okay first of all thanks so much for the opportunity to be part of this amazing discussion and I want to say that if you look at the trend the historical trend since independence I think there's a progressive growth in politics and also in corporate for example at independence there's totally no woman in the parliament and between 1963 to 2012 we've had 50 women uh member of parliament so that is progressive and you've also talked in your statistics that between 2013 and 2017 those are 18 percent increase so that is something that is applaudable however I think there is still much to be done it's we are still a country we are democratic country we've gained a lot through women leadership yet we still lag behind if you compare us with other East African countries if you look at rwanda there's 61 percent now if you ask yourself what is really hindering us from even getting the 50 percent I think we are on our way there though there are major setbacks that we need to deal with and when you come to corporate there is much more improvements we've had many many women coming out as CEOs directors board members and that was not there before so I think we are starting to embrace that women can actually lead and that is a good thing so from there after embracing that then we still need to create more opportunities and look at the loopholes that we have okay now having talked or having had your views on how the current tree is doing currently as far as women leadership is concerned tonight our aim is to really be able to highlight some of the most obstacles what is this that is making women leaders in this country not participate fully in politics so let have look I'll have each one of you probably address two major points that is two major obstacles based on you what really you think about that and I would like to start with you Anita what you think of some of the most obstacles that really into the participation of women in politics in this country well for me I'll go to a very major one that I see really recurring and really preventing women from participating to full potential and that would be the institutional factors of the party politics whereby when you look at the parties in Kenya they operate through very rigid systems that do not really put account women's needs or domestic responsibilities and I feel that in Kenya parties should be of course be leading tools into driving women political participation and they can do this easily by first of all including more women candidates in their candidates list they could also do that through of course creating more awareness and embracing the fact that the more women that they have the better it becomes for a balanced opinion well it's also very easy to say that but then again the the thing that I feel that could be done to really sort out this issue would be the government stepping in and probably providing more funding for the political parties that of course put more women candidates on there on their list and this acts as an incentive or a driver for making sure that there are more women on their list but then again we've also I mentioned earlier that this parties also operate through a very rigid system because they probably fear you know losing power or maybe the support base and eventually losing political power but I think we should eventually come to realize that women are not a threat the more women you have again the better the balanced opinion there is and of course I mean the better the better we are represented as a as a as a society okay yeah I like Anita has mentioned that women are not to be feared or women can also do something but we would like us to also talk about most of the times people have termed women as emotional which means that because a woman isn't is termed as an emotional being they may not be able to lead so very well but before we get to that point I would like to hear when these views on what do you think are some of the most obstacles that really hinder the women to fully participate in politics in this country for me I think the the major hindrance is we still in a very patriarchal society I would agree to that yeah we are still rooted to so much stereotyping that women have to go through a lot of having to prove yourselves to the society for instance as a young woman if I want to lead to maybe talk about my aspirations first of all they'll be talking about my marital status they'll be asking where you married how many kids do you have why won't you buy at your husband's place and and not your home so you that that makes you wonder if how is my marriage going to provide the leadership if I want to buy to to be an aspirant I'm coming on but because I believe I'm a leader and there's something I need to change in the society but people want take that they won't look at that in that perspective because we've grown in a society where we believe that we are still limited to being the good wife being the the housewife yeah the good mother yeah so I think mostly if you go at the grassroots where a lot of people are still not exposed to women bring a lot of stuff in the society they still believe that the rightful place for a woman is to be led the the man is to be the leader and when you come on board as a woman they try to pull down things one at a time trying to pull you down and that is one thing that is really going to uh to affect us because as much as you're even fighting for opportunities in the 2-3 gender rule you ask yourself suppose it happens is the society still ready to change their mindset because if you still go back to election and bring women aspirants which has been there we don't we can't say that women have not bank we have many women were really running for office the issue is this is the society still has not embraced them to be able to trust them with leadership roles and this is one thing we really have to grapple with the society and just to highlight something about you are talking about women being believed to be emotional let us take a very short break and then when we come back we could now dive into the women being tabbed as emotional we take a very short break on why 254 but don't go too far away we're going to be right back with more thank you for staying with us on why 254 updates welcome back to our discussion and if you're just joining us tonight we're talking about women political participation we're just trying to see what are the barriers how can we overcome them and also probably how do we now bring in the society to probably change their mindset and change the perceptions that people have as far as women leadership is concerned talk to us across our social media platforms that is at why 254 channel you can also reach me at patricia muriuki before we went for the break I cut you short and I'd say that most of the times women are referred to as emotional being and people feel like because they are emotional then they're not be able to make better decisions that is if they're tasked with the responsibility of leading a country of or leading people but I'd like to mention we have New Zealand we have German we have Taiwan among other countries that are led by women and I would like to take a very good example from the New Zealand president this lady has done a lot have like honestly amazing work and we also saw New Zealand do very well with COVID-19 she was able to control everything being the leader of that country so having this history and we have a record of evidence where we can draw our arguments from Wendy do you really think that this is even a statement people should utter as a way to make women not go for the seats go for the political positions as I mentioned before that is just an example of what the society want to to clinch on women's mind that we are emotional but first of all we need to embrace that before we are leaders we are human beings yeah if I'm emotional and personally I'm very emotional but at no point will you see me making any decision based on emotions yeah we may become emotional as human beings and that is okay it is fine to cry so yeah it's fine to laugh when necessary yeah it's fine to let our emotions because it's also part of mental health development yeah so when we start trusting them on women's face as to make it look bad then now that is the problem that the society is bringing and talking of that there's a day Honorebo Sabina went emotional yeah and there was a lot of backlash yeah a lot of talks and you you just wonder now because she's a women rape how was that particular situation going to affect us? how many times have we seen the former president of the United States of America Barack Obama give speeches and cry and he's celebrated but we're here it wasn't an issue actually when president obama cried it wasn't a challenge yeah it was celebrating yeah yeah so that's why we are saying to you see how the society will look at two things they want they want us to uh they believe that they want us to create a certain strength emotionally that may not be that a particular situation and judge us based on that and also let's not forget that that is a way of grouping generalizing which is not okay not all women are emotional and not all will are not able to handle their emotions so that's just a generalization and we take it differently depending on uh who is getting emotional some will be celebrating and if because it's a woman it'll be told women are emotional so I think it's just as a society uh there's the stereotypes there how do I call it I don't want to give it a very funny name but yeah that's just one example of what I'm talking about okay uh before I would like us probably as you as we come to the end of the discussion I would like us to talk about like culture and culture and traditions but before we get to that Anita let me bring you in on what now do you think we've talked about some of the barriers that could be hindering women what how do you think we can overcome that and I want you to give a comment to that how can we overcome it give it as a woman that is how can women overcome that and how can institutions that are already there the male uh big pins in politics how can they also help us achieve how can they help us create these spaces for women in politics okay first of all I I honestly think that first of all this is an awareness issue because just like I mentioned of the rigid structures you also have a lot of patriarchy and coming back to how you know what drives our societal norms is that we also very patriarchal and of course men have the most power they hold most of the decisions so I think we have to start from there we have to start from the very root of this by of course conducting awareness continuous awareness not just during the political season but continuous campaigns that also educates especially the people are the grassroots that women indeed they can lead and you know they have capability and they can indeed of course drive our societies to prosperity so issue issue start from the grassroots the engagements and then I think the parties and the government should also be very should also be a gatekeeper in this in that it should also drive the discussions in that it is sort of rewards just like I said before providing incentives for the political parties that create more opportunities for women candidates on their list I think that can be a good that can be a good start okay I like it that Anita has brought has brought in probably like what now even the men who are there can do now when I want you to take this up and before I give before you really comment on the same question Anita was responding to do you think women who are there do you think women who are leading this country right now have given you a better example or are proving to do something to bring in other women are they the best role models or mentors do you think would you say that for me for me I think we can't generalize we can't put all of them and say we have poor women leaders or we have the best I think we have both sides if you talk about mentorship it will be it depend with which leaders what are they doing to ensure that they create spaces for mentorship okay we have some were very who have really come out to to create those spaces and participate in mentorship mentorship programs for us for example at young men leaders connect to inserted the web in on women and politics we've been having women leaders they're coming on board every two weeks on Wednesday and that's just an example that they're willing to share the experiences they're willing to to show the way of to us young women how we're supposed to do that so I can't say there's just one general parameter that you can use to to gauge the the strength and also when you look at the past the the past info tracks the first the analysis of the performance you find we have women leaders were in the top we have Honore Buble among others were in the top list so this is just an indication that we have those are really doing well and they deserve to be recognized but at the same time I think we have also instances where people feel that women leaders need to do more and do better especially when things in the society happen for example with recently when the the yeah the woman at Pumwani yeah she gave birth just at the gate and then we come we have the women leaders coming on board and speaking about it but uh people feel that we need to put more energy when we talk about maternal health the same way we were giving the same energy when Mamangina was uh was yeah was attacked by Honore Buble yeah so I think uh for us we need to to look at both and not look at uh this is much weighty situation this is this uh a more important person in the country but we need the same vika the same energy that we are using in a Mamangina situation the same organizing as strength and skills to come out as women did I think they just just a challenge that we need to to uh pop out and also challenge them to do better yeah add on what Wendy is saying I would probably add that uh this women also cannot function in a vacuum yeah we need to young women or women who wish to be menta should also come forward because at the end of the day these women also have responsibilities you also have to show the will to be menta and to you know to be available for them to also reach out because honestly if if if for example no one showed up for help how then where do you start from yeah that's very true yeah okay so now as we wind up as we prepare to live and go home uh we have culture we have traditions we have uh the society that he's our best teacher and the society says these the society says that how can we now um create a balance i would say create a balance how can we bring in the society to know that if a woman leaders uh probably wanting to be elected today to lead this country we have many people like these are the terms most people say mimi siye ziongozon na monamke mimi siye zivuti na monamke how do we bring those people with that mentality and tell them these women also have potential these women can serve you and these women can bring change Wendy let me start with you um i think as Anita mentioned before this need for more civic engagement especially the grass root because that's the that's where the problem comes and that's where the problem starts when we start thinking of uh what what the society has been thinking traditionally and also we need to embrace that the world is changing the same 2020 we are in right now maybe 10 years no not even 10 let me say in 90s 1990s things were different we had different scenarios different opportunities we had different platform for women but now things are changing the world is starting to embrace things and also culturalized we have some cultures that are now backdated yeah for us uh there's some cultures that we feel right now we look at them as intimidating intimidation of women but traditionally we used to see them as what need to be done and if you do that you're the responsible the now the best picture of how a woman should be but i think times are changing and people need to embrace that and i think it's a challenge we need to start with the young people ourselves because this is the generation we're living in so for example if we need more advocacy and the young people to come on board in advocating for more women participation in politics okay thank you very much i would like Anita for you to comment on intimidation how can women deal with intimidation now you are a young person or whatever age that you are you know woman wants to lead in a certain in certain positions in this country a very short opinion or a very short advice how can women watching us tonight how can they deal with intimidation when that time comes for them to face people in political positions or within the corporate sector and people are saying things that do not please them how do i deal with it as a woman as we wind up well first of all i think patricia your head should be at the right place uh in that you you of course getting into the leadership space and of course just like any other normal human being um you of course biased people when we meet a person for the first time we have opinions we i mean we it's natural for us to to make a judgment or even critique so first of all i think you should first of all get over that and recognize that the fact that you in a public space these things you know will keep on recurring so it's more um i don't know building your internal strength and focusing for on what is important in terms of your quest okay that would be good okay so thank you very much ladies for finding the time to join us tonight and that brings us to the end of our conversation tonight if you're watching as i hope that has a young person you have been inspired and i'll leave you with this quote that says the ability to learn is the most important quality a leader can have thank you very much my name is patricia murioki two of yourselves a very good night