 Rob Arkeshuk is going to talk to us about Delta Loins journey with IT for IT after that We'll have some coffee and then we will meet both Rob Lars Mary Jarrett and our fourth speaker in the panel at the end of the afternoon. So Rob. Thanks very much. Thank you Yes, the IT organization they it needs to reinvent itself Reinvent itself and you see a number of significant changes happening in the IT industry Which really require a fundamental different different approach to how we manage and operate the IT function A new operating model is needed as as Mary Jarrett in her presentation also described this morning and This new operating model that is what the IT for IT reference architecture provide now This presentation is about why and how Delta Lloyd has applied this model to improve and operate Prepare itself for this new IT role new IT function My name is Rob Arkeshuk I'm work for logic house, but I am an IT managed architect working at Delta Lloyd to implement this relatively new IT for IT reference Architecture, and I'm also still engaged at Shell in the IT for IT organization there and working closely with Carol von Zeeland on this topic So let me go into the agenda So this presentation is briefly showing what what is Delta Lloyd as an organization and then I'm zooming into what are the challenges of the IT organization and that is typically relevant for any IT organization out there and typically also in the financial industry So we're looking at what kind of challenges does a new IT organization have and what how do we do they need to respond to this and Then I'm looking at the IT for IT reference architecture and show you how Delta Lloyd has applied this internally So let me go to Delta Lloyd as an organization So Delta Lloyd is a financial services organization Focusing in services in the Netherlands and Belgium. It's an insurance organization providing pensions and banking services And specifically in the financial industry IT has a significant impact of how they need to operate Not only from a new mobility perspective mobile apps, but also from a security compliance perspective. So it's a challenging environment So briefly introducing Delta Lloyd as an organization Delta Lloyd has about four million customers Which use a lot of the IT directly It's mobile apps like one of the brands is aura and and anything that they deliver is done through internet or through mobile apps So it's a car insurances for example or other insurances you do them through your mobile app and directly communicate and collaborate with the business Now some figures about 600 business applications that Delta Lloyd is managing Of and they have about 1200 surfers with a lot of different technologies like fm where HP IBM So I think relatively a standard infrastructure as a lot of organization have with virtualization in place 700 IT staff and about about 5,000 desktop laptops they need to maintain But you can imagine the IT is much bigger than the internal IT staff because basically IT supports for a hundred per million Customers directly interacting with the IT organization So you can imagine that the new IT has a major impact on the financial industry as you can see here This is a statement coming from the annual report of Delta Lloyd last year and they realized that IT is really a Very important ingredient of their success in their line of business It's not just about 24 by 7 services It's also about Interacting communicating with your customers and the user experience and mobile applications. They need to develop But I also need to use modern technologies like big data to understand what customers are saying about your organization like in in tweets Yeah, so there's a lot of changes there in their IT a state as you can see so What what are those challenges of an IT organization within a financial institution? But you can imagine in traditionally we had an IT organization that delivers different services to the to the business But now you see that the business has opportunities to directly buy services of the market standard market service like saas and pass So there is a risk that the IT department is circumvent circumvent. They directly source their own services And you already see that happening there and sometimes that's good that the business can acquire or use their own services what they want to use But one of the challenges is that if the business and there are different lines of businesses each developing or Sourcing their own applications very difficult to integrate So the vision of the Delta Lloyd IT organization is to really transform itself to become that service broker To mitigate the risk that application are acquired by the business at any time at any place Because in principle the business wants to take control over IT Yeah, and that's a key change that you see in the market the business directly wants to determine How they consume apps when what capacities allocate they want more control which the traditional IT department could not provide And that's where it if IT comes in to build this service integration model and Deliver the services from from basically from a standard portfolio fully integrated So that's the direction and and if if regular IT organizations are not ready for this There's really a risk or an opportunity for the business to just buy the service themselves Because as I stated before business wants to be in control of IT and They will get that or through here or directly through a saas vendor. Yeah So the eye so we start the journey is defining what what kind of IT organization do we need to have in financial institution institution like Delta Lloyds, and this is their vision of the IT organization needs to be flexible agile fast lightweight sustainable and stable and and they do sponsor both This is the fall for ocean race. So they foresee that the IT organization needs to be like that, right? It needs to be flexible stable and Everything we do in IT needs to reflect this Meaning that your process designs the people that live work in the IT organization the tools you use They need to be agile and lightweight as well So we don't want big heavy tools that you need a lot of customizations you need light tools that implement fast and Support that vision, right? It is not just it must be part of the DNA of the entire IT organization to have this Now so I think this is a slide that shows you one of the challenges and and also the goals that IT organization in Delta Lloyd has And I think it's I think well I'm probably the same as many larger IT organizations These are all the the challenges and the things that IT needs to deliver So one of the things it it needs to deliver services, right and not a technology anymore And that's why that we call the service divide enterprise everything needs to be delivered as a service or start with the services and Well, if you can you can read but it's about full cost transparency But at the same time we need to introduce new capabilities like big data mobile and all in cloud at the same time Manage all the security and risk and compliance, which is mandatory in a financial industry Fully automate there's more and more need to automate processes like request to fulfill months. We don't want people to manually Perform activities which you could automate Other things like the technology infrastructure will change and I will start with that later because the Traditional infrastructure, although it is Verticalized already is not that flexible the cost structure is not flexible So if the business demand go up, it's not easy to scale over and it goes down in some time You cannot scale down so the IT infrastructure is not scalable in in a traditional IT organization So all these things together are the ingredients to build a new IT organization So the question is I'm you probably know Gordon Ramsay in his program where he does a turnaround on restaurants right, he he looks at restaurants that are failing to deliver customer service and So that and he basically does a turnaround a complete turnaround of a business in a few weeks of time And do you know where he starts with so what do you think where he starts with to improve things? anybody idea But it starts at I will not say the word but he starts with a menu He normally put something in front of that It's it's the menu there is where you start so you need to understand what are the services you deliver to your customer and Then start to improve that it's like the shell journey starting to with your portfolios that you have and Your services that you deliver and if you don't have this menu You cannot even start a journey and if you don't have this menu You probably end up yourself on the menu for Christmas Right, and that's what well we need we need to have this So one of the first things we started is look at how does this menu evolve in the IT organization over time? And there are key changes happening You probably most organizations are in that virtualization phase already So let me skip the traditional one where you have your dedicated hardware and servers allocated to a specific application And and this is where the most organizations are with the virtualization layer on top of it But a lot of organization nowadays find that this is not easy to manage because This layer how it's been organized the most IT organization have a shared storage layer and a shared Compute layer and then they put virtualization on top of that in reality That doesn't seem to work because the storage doesn't scale to all the type of applications you host and a lot of Organization now find out that if they have a shared storage across all the apps it does not scale it does not work It's not performing So there's a new packet the paradigm that is applying internally as well It's like what is called converse infrastructure or multi-cloud environment where you have different infrastructure service stacks with each own storage his own compute and a past stack like a shared Web-Sphere environment where you can host your applications and it's managed as a separate stack And I will come to that by that is important because This stack will determine what you need to do to manage because every How you manage this requires different capabilities than in the previous World because each of these stacks come with their own Capabilities to manage these stacks and that has a big impact on how you operate so At the journey at Delta we find out that you need to think about this new stack What are the capabilities you need to manage that these new services? So let me briefly show you how that works in general So you have this standard stack like a SAS application stack or past stack and an infrastructure stack And typically any organization has three of those stacks internally where all the services will be hosted on and If it's a SAS it sounds very simple, but I will come to that now The web sphere stack at Delta Lloyd is a shared pass environment where we would like to land all the web sphere applications And there's a lot of web sphere applications used for all the mobile apps that are delivered out in the market to have the online Insurance policy process is supported and that's typically run on web sphere And this is a shared platform where you can Deploy a new application quickly and also scale and there's a traditional stack more the Conversed infrastructure stack on the infrastructure service and this is running internally still SAS not of course That's external we have a hybrid mode But you'd quickly introduce though what you need is capabilities suddenly to to spin up a virtual machine and then configure middleware But if you want to configure and load deploy your application You need capabilities to run and deploy an application and all the web sphere the same and Then you have the same capability then you need to configure the application on top of that And you see for SAS or for past you still need that capability to configure application like configure business rules Configure workflows and policies and integrations Then you need to configure and load the data and you can imagine you need to build interfaces And then you need to manage your access now if you consider that the idea is that we have a standard way To manage this stack because although there will be new stacks delivered over time You want to have a standard art method to deploy manage and have full transparency of an application using model resources going down And and and that's where we have started on is working on. Okay. How does that work? We have standard management capabilities typically built in these stacks I will not go into much detail of that But you can imagine that's a given if you have a stack with VMware we use VMware solutions to manage that and on top of that You have a sort of you know service catalog layer Automation layer what it for it reference architecture also just provides as a descriptive method is saying, okay You need a self-service portal where people can request resources then you need a broker function and an orchestration function and monitoring So so you can imagine that's not a simple task. You need to think about how you organize that And I will go into that in a little bit more detail and we want that of course to be integrated with standard APIs instead of You know reinventing the wheel yourself But it's not about the infrastructure stack only right It's about the entire life cycle as the it for it reference architecture things about it's from idea to market Let's say from a from a strategy to the actual provisioning and and you see that in traditional IT organization that a lot of Let's say walls in between the business unit that has an idea goes to the development unit They develop something and then it's deployed And and for continuous operations you can imagine there today There are a number of those walls in between an IT for IT you try to break down the walls and have a one integrated workflow infrastructure stack application stack and on the infrastructure provisioning application provisioning Now and that's not a simple task, right? And this diagram shows how complex the IT management is because this is everything an IT organization needs to do and Any organization of a significant size is doing these activities already we have this all in place any organization that we Any IT organization has this so all these activities are performed maybe not always formal But they are done maybe through a spreadsheet, but all things are done like we do some monitoring We have supply and management do we do business continuity. We have test management all these processes are there We have a lot of data that we manage and all the data that's documented here is available in IT organization one format or another Right we have we manage our financials. We manage our contract costs. We manage our documents No nearest problem defects and so on and you can imagine how complex that is And we also have and any organization has that all these tools that are highlighted there They're all there that we have a seem to be we've got monitoring tools project portfolio tools time writing tools deployment tools one way or another and of course a lot of spreadsheets to maintain and manage but every Or IT organization has this and it could be an identity and access management tool or security monitoring tool It's all there now. One of the challenges is that this is already implemented in any IT organization You can imagine how challenging is to improve that and move to a target state because this in history has not been defined Because there was no IT for IT reference architect. So typically this has been implemented You know in a specific line of business in its own way and so every business has done differently And that's the key challenge. You have something now and you want to move to something new Now where do you start and that's basically the IT for IT reference architecture because the IT for IT reference Architecture provides that bigger picture. It really shows you how everything is connected and that is fundamentally different How most IT organizations look at themselves? They don't have that end to end picture if you ask anybody in your own IT organization and ask them How does a new demand is raised and how does it get into production? I'm sure you don't get that answer. It's not the same. It's because it's not defined and documented end to end They have pieces of it. There's maybe a project management standard How to deliver projects or test management standard, but not end to end This is what the IT for IT reference architecture provides. It provides a structure And the good thing is you can use this from the start. You don't need to implement this first You use this your blueprint and check where you are today What are the gaps as Mary also pointed out and the journey is probably different For each IT organization what they have in place and where do what is next? So I will not go into much detail of this because I have been introduced by last as well But it's important to start with these value streams So one of the first thing we started with is identifying in the deltoid organization who is responsible for the end-to-end value stream and Then identify an architect IT for IT architect that is responsible for also for the end-to-end and then have a number of Leads for each value stream and that lead will look at his own practices now to improve that function I'll come back back to that later Now Just to illustrate why you need a IT reference architecture IT for IT reference architecture because if you look at today Detect to correct anything we do today. There's an incident detected and what do we need to do or there's an exception detected What do we need to do to resolve it? And you can imagine if you look at the entire chain That you cannot do that with the in the current way of working with individual processes and tools not linked Because what happening is for example in this case in a security alarm comes in and a security event is typically monitored by a vulnerability management system that monitors potentially vulnerabilities or attacks so there is an event raised that event is sent to a central security Security a system where all these security events are combined That's typically called a seam or event management system And there's a security team that looks at those events and then they determine. What is the priority? What's happening here? What are the actions we need to take now typically the security team cannot take these actions So they need to say okay What is this let's say it's a vulnerability on a specific application component They need to create an incident or a problem and assign it to the correct team that needs to resolve it Now typically they need to seem to be to find it out and a lot of security tools They don't know they have no clue about what is connected. What is this server doing and for whom which application runs on it? So the next step is you raise an incident and then you need your seem to be in an instant management system And then you need let's say implement a fix or a new patch only of the application to correct it Then we need to change management system and change process and there's a approval needed And then we need to create a package for that and we need to develop and test and deploy that Into test and then in production to apply this patch or fix now you can imagine if you don't have an integrated workflow This can take months. You cannot wake months before a vulnerabilities resolved and in this use case It's a vulnerability that really need some coding change on the application or at least a new package to be deployed You need to go through all the steps to do this and you can imagine we need to do this more efficient Flow and to end and that's why I think what you need it if I T to do that You cannot do that in the traditional way like we implement the security monitoring We implemented a change process and the instant management system, but I don't work and to end And the same for requirement to deploy I will go through this more quickly, but you have to similar if there's a requirement coming in It needs to be developed tested deployed up and so on and there's a lot of people involved there's a lot of tools involved again and Yeah, and that's the same challenge a lot of individual packages and tools you use to manage this entire flow and If each tool does it in its own way, then you can imagine there's no really interconnectivity So the idea division that it for it you as a reference architect provide is basically to say What do we need to manage in it organization? What are all the activities we need to do? Running from project activity development testing activity or instant management activities all these activities and with the deltoid division was Let's create a single management system to manage all the tasks in the IT organization So that we can assign the task to different teams that are involved in development and testing and operations and Because you see now more and more in deaf ops that the same person that it works or incidents are also working on development Task or they do project task or they do test task So you see that one person is typically evolved in a lot of different processes and activities Now you can imagine that if he needs to go through ten different systems to see what task you need to perform And what has priority you can imagine the challenges that person has so he needs to look at an instant management system change management system a defect tool Because typically the more and more people working on multiple topics at the same time So the division that IT for IT will provide is that integration and a deltoid to really are looking for an integrated layer Across all these activities you do in the IT organization. It's a kind of creating a single backlog Now that's where the IT for IT reference architecture is used as the blueprint So it's used as a backdrop to start. Okay. How are we organized today? What needs to be changed? So the whole road map created based on this model Now, let me go into the component part of tools So for each value stream, you typically need that are a number of functional components identified like in presented in the last slide To implement these functional components. You again need some tools and these are just examples of the building blocks you need and I highlight them then before but every organization has all these building blocks in its Organization so the idea is that if you select tools to support these building blocks You need to carefully think about integration and to end using the IT for IT reference architecture So selecting a portfolio management system that can integrate with your service portfolio or integrate with development tools Or with your catalogue and and instant management components And that's a challenge because today you already have tools in all these areas You got maybe Microsoft for the monitoring or deployment vm where for deployment HP for portfolio management and test management and Microsoft Development and G-RAM. There are a lot of tools that already are out there And then there's an that is that is basically the challenge that we face in a lot of IT organizations that Every tool has its own connectors, man. This is like you have Lego connects and different Tools and this is what we see in IT organization as well. It has its own adapters and its own integrations and I can your connects you cannot really easily connect to Lego you can imagine and this is what we see in IT organizations as well If you have a vendor a and a vendor B and when to integrate like automated provisioning or monitoring It is a big challenge is today now so what we need is this it's a universal construction kit and and I FIT is that kids, right? It's it's it's maybe not on the lowest level as last word explaining But this is what we are targeting for and this is then the thingy first. I'm not sure if you know thingy first, but It's I have a 3d printer at home So I can print like I want a connector for connects and Lego I can print it and then I can connect the elements and for IT for IT We're looking at the same capabilities that we have a a Portal let's say where all the connectors are delivered as a service You can download a connector for project portfolio management to another system or test management Yeah, you can download these these blocks To interconnect that it's not there of course today, but you can imagine that's the direction We want to go to you have anything to anything that can be connected and you implement them and downloaded in your own IT Organization, yeah, and it's not there today, right? But you can imagine that that's the way we're looking at it needs to be standardized open to communicate and It's and it's an awful looking thing, but this can connect to anything right? So it's it's basically our IT for IT reference architecture, but then on the level four or five Okay, now then looking at Delta Lloyd Looking at the journey and I think the journey that is displayed here is similar as you can do it in your own Organization because the approach is not that much different as you need to take to any IT organization So the approach is very roughly showed here and will not go through all the bullets But you can imagine you start with a big picture that that's the key, right? You don't zoom in and because if you if you start with an inventory of everything you do already or improve Then you have you need maybe you need to look at new project management system test management tools If you now do an inventory of all the things you're already doing as improvements There might be 20 or 30 projects running it could be improving test management deliver agile delivery Improving the project management charge back anything But for the IT for IT implementation need to think one step back and say what is the end to end picture look like? So you take the IT for IT reference architecture and then you plot how you do that today So that's why we started but before you can start you need to create a mid a management vision What is my IT organization looking like in the in the coming three years? Because if you don't have that vision then reference architecture would not help that much either So you start is what is my new role as an IT organization? What is my strategy my vision on IT management? Then you sell that internally and then you get buy-in and we start with an IT for IT reference architecture review, so it's basically You take the reference architect and you plot how you do all these components today So how does your tool architecture look like? How does your process model? How is your data model? How is the organization with the skills and roles are positioned and then you can plot that to the IT for IT reference architecture? Identify the gaps because in the reference architect You see what should be connected and what components do you need and then you can easily see where are the gaps? potentially in your in your model or where do you have duplicate tools or in consistent processes and So and then based on that you're defining a sort of target state using the reference architecture again And then prior to rise what what do you need to do first like in the shell a journey that started? I think you could almost say 12 years ago first standardizing the service management system in the seem to be and then and as Mary showed later on the financial Management start head of IT business management first as a first step after that so every organization has its own steps to take Right, so if we look at the deltoid organization We took the IT for IT reference architecture that's like displayed here as in a in a in a different format And every component is plotted in how do we do that today? What the tools are the process who's responsible is accountable as kind of a quick scan and then we identified? What are the the gaps as you could see here some colored lines is there are tools that are not strategic or can be replaced There are custom homegrown grown solutions, or we have inconsistent data sets for managing project costs For example, we look at the process maturity so the different processes in the IT organization with different level of maturity or even not documented or there but not always fully standardized and So we looked at all those things, you know and then develop a target vision again using the IT for IT reference architecture as your model and Then starting to say how does my future blueprint look like what tools do I need there? And what can I reuse what I have today and where do I need to invest first? Okay, and one of the first steps we need to do is is Defining what is the engine that really runs the end to end value streams because I still need different tools for development and deployment and orchestration and monitoring and Also potentially for contract and enterprise architecture and project portfolio management But I want to make a common platform where I manage my IT tasks and and that was one of the first steps to be selected That platform is using a standard reference model. It's called ID Guardian where we model those processes So if you have an end to end view But you imagine that one tool cannot solve it right? Integrations with orchestration tools like for VMware Development and testing tool like HP is used for test management. So all the integrations they need to come together Then looking at this because if you look at the big picture you may Identify 30 projects you need to do over time. So then you need to prioritize. What is the right order now in Delta Lloyd? We looked at what are the prioritizations? And the first step basically if you look at the prior tree prioritization is building the IT for IT common platform With a basic instant problem and change seem to be as a lay that was the foundation and on top of that We had the different value streams were implemented after that So it's a it's a journey still going on But you can imagine there's a faced approach because you don't get the budget to do it all you first need to show That it works have the benefits Get the business value directly and then move to the next step and The first step was shown in this picture is to build that common framework and that the business can order through a self-service portal The the different services they need to do want to consume fully up and then after that fully automated provisioned and so the key thing is here about faced approach and Because Delta Lloyd is moving to a new cloud internal hybrid cloud environment There was also a good opportunity to start With this is not a green field, but it's a good way to start So if your IT organization also moving to the cloud Then it's the best approach is to immediately make sure that anything is deployed to this new cloud is Directly delivered through this standard IT for IT model so that from day one you're in control Now this this shows you the roadmap of how it has you know What are the key faces and the order what been taken so you see the first the IT for IT blueprint was created then the base system was Implemented and then we have each value stream is coming after that So request to fulfill is the first value stream that's implemented and the reason for that is that because that's a heavily repetitive With a lot of automation Possibilities because the service portfolio was already there There was already a good catalog of all the services and applications that are out there So the best start was starting at the request fulfillment is make sure that everything that's provisioned into the cloud is Managed and directly understood through which application that belongs. What does it cost? So that was the first step and the rest we still need to come So we talk about the next step detect to correct having the monitoring capabilities in place That triggers the restoration or recovery actions and then the requirement to deploy Getting into agile development I'm not saying that this is not done because scrum and agile development is already started and he used different solutions like JIRA for that But the idea is that we cannot integrate everything in day one into that framework So those people are still already working on agile development And we make sure that what they are doing can be later easily integrated into the overall framework Because typically you cannot everything what you have shown here. It's already happening in the IT organization one way or another So you can imagine the steps we need to go through and then the last part is the strategy portfolio You could argue why is that in the last part? But I explained to you there is already a service portfolio so that difference where roots you can take to implement this Then it's not just about the tools because I talked a lot about capabilities and tools It's also about the new organization So I would like to share you a bit about how does the new IT organization look looks like what new skills are needed to operate That new IT organization. So it's it's also a mindset and I think that that Mary You know explained it also very well this morning that typically and in an IT organization different departments want their own thing They think that this is good for their project portfolio management Or they think this is best for Java test management or this is best tool for for requirements engineering and any team has its own preferences Right, but the mindset that needs to change is that we need to think about the end-to-end flow We don't need the best testing tool We don't need to best seem to be our discovery tool We want a solution that really supports the end-to-end flow and That really is a new mindset because a team that does test management only Typically wants the best test tool and a team that only manages projects like a PMO wants the best project portfolio management system So we need to balance that all the time and say no we don't want the best test tool We first need to look at the whole like what Lars was saying a service backbone so that we can share data and Cat visibility on the cost and what's going well how and to continuously improve and We probably end up with multiple test management tools But at least one system where we manage all the defects Yeah, because for Java testing and net you might need different testing plug-ins, right? So that typically is still needed So it's all about the mindset of people and taking ownership and try to get a central team Working with these practitioners to come with the right end-to-end solution So how does that new organization look like now? This is the old organization and as you can see the the previous organization was focused on Technologies so you had a team that looked at specific Technologies like a network team and a storage team and a Windows team and a Linux Linux teams Each have their own set of infrastructure teams And then you have different line of businesses for insurance banking and pension each line of business have their own applications and they interact with the IT organizations through a service management layer and service managers in a new organization The idea is that we say we deliver a similar as an Amazon just cloud services We deliver a common platform where you can host your applications So there will be a service broker that provides these services to the different line of businesses Which they can then order and and build their applications and on top of that you have different DevOps teams building applications in each line of business It doesn't mean that everything is delivered through the DevOps because there's still ops in the cloud, right? We still have an operations team working on the cloud services And the key thing is that every cloud service out there is also managed as a service that is developed like a new Websphere service is developed and then provided to the development teams. Everything is a service service oriented enterprise and Then you have the different teams they interact with the cloud broker to order and consume and the difference is now the business is in control of What resources they need and they can see the resources and can start and stop things right and the business I sometimes mean is the or the the application IT team that running there and even the business and use themselves Right, they can say I don't need the software anymore And that that means that you also need to think about new roles in the IT organization So if you look at the value stream for each of these value streams There are key skills and roles you need in the IT organization And there are a few changes because you still need developers testers and project managers But there are a few new roles we see in this case in a Delta Load organization is IT for IT architect, of course But also portfolio managers that really think about portfolios and not just managing a portfolio from an administrative perspective But they own the portfolio look at the investment and look at the continuous improvement on services There is an automation specialist that can really help Deployment automation because that is still a specialist role. You cannot have anybody develop deployment scripts or automation scripts It's still a specialized area at this moment. So you need a team that can automate repetitive tasks and And the cloud automation engineer that person that can configure the cloud and make it consumable for for the different teams And then there is also more new roles in related to financial management and capacity management For example also changes in the past capacity management was done on CPU and memory and disk You still have that but now you need to think about what is my business demand? Do we see a trend in volume if we have more online transactions through mobile apps? We need to spin off additional web servers on the web sphere farm to cater for all those Transactions and you see that in Delta Load if it's a winter time and there's more accidents on the road You have more insurance claims So we need to spin up more web servers to try to learn to balance that load in in in slippery In winter time when there's a lot of snow and then you see that and you want to respond time to the consumer needs to be good Now how do you sell it if I tia we had that discussion this morning as well and and and this is typically bankers Right if you look at these people the it was Delta Loading organization started in 1807 not not that these people are from 807 but you can Imagine if you want to sell it for it At bankers. Yeah, you get these kind of comments, right? So who asked for this they ask I mean our arm. We already doing fine We had a gardener benchmark and Delta Load was performing very well. It was in the top 20 or top 10 It there are very efficient run it organization. So people challenges are why do we need to change? We're already very good. So what can we improve? And the business case So that's one of the challenges we faced and we have to explain what is the business case and similar as Mary was Explaining in the center of the business case is different per value stream or in life cycle You are but it's really a challenge, right? Now one of the things we do to get business buy-in is to create a model office And the model office is a kind of experience center where in the Delta Load organization you set up a sort of room It's not a round room as here will be nice, but it was too expensive to build a round room. So You know a square is also fine and Then we model the different processes and roles and then the business or Development teams can come in and experience the new way of working and a new way of working in the sense that you could show How the end-to-end workflow will will flow if there's a business demand how will that go through the systems? And although not everything is already being developed right because typically requires a lot of work But you can do a number of integrations and showcases to demonstrate Imagine we have a security incident and it needs to flow through IT organization and then you engage with people how does that work and how does it go from one to another team and identify issues and then we show how in a new model it works and Then you get buy-in not just from the IT menu or the business site or the CIO You also get buy-in from the different teams that that thought that they can do better themselves that they had their own best test tool or the best Monitoring tool. Yeah, so that that really helps to get people motivated to work on this new model Because that's what we wanted we wanted people to mobilize and get enthusiastic about this new way of working and and that worked Now I'm not sure if you know the Phoenix project as a book, right, but it's it's a book about Typically an IT organization Where it runs into what kind of problems to run into in how a day's IT organization? So I recommend that as a reading it is maybe not the most sophisticated book in the sense that Explaining how things are to be improved But it's really nice and eye-openers that maybe a lot of IT organizations are not that well organized There's not a single for example change register with all the changes that are planned for the weekend for example so that's really interesting book and and And only if had they had it if it right they didn't have that issue and unfortunately was not described in the book now My last notes on this presentation So a lot of people see this as scary project or scary program It's basically transition from the current IT to a future IT and a lot of IT organizations That's scary. On the other hand if you explain the vision people get enthusiastic about this journey but Still a lot of people say is not too risky Yeah, and that's this was slide is about is probably more risky to stay and do the things you've done today Then instead of do it in different way and adopting the IT for IT reference architecture as a new way of working