 Welcome. Thank you for being here thrilled to have you joining us today either for this live episode with Jessica Gruber, or you could be tuning in and listening to one of our recordings. So Jessica is here with us from BuzzWorks creation and she's going to get nerdy about building donor relationships via your website. So before we dive into this deep conversation with Jessica, Julie and I want to make sure that you know who we are. And if you're looking at us are listening to us, Julia Patrick is the CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. I'm Jared Ransom, your nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven group. I want to be the nonprofit nerd and I want you to be Julia Patrick because the nonprofit nerds cooler. Yeah, I don't know about that. I mean we both do have really cool glasses which you know, mine are the nerdy ones, but we can certainly put tape tape on yours Julia. I mean, I've got to do that I did that once for like a lot of tape to cover all her glasses. The whole role. 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So make sure that you do queue up the nonprofit show so you can listen to this episode with Jessica Gruber. Again and again and again because I have a feeling you're going to want to share it with your friends or colleagues your board members. So Jessica, we are so glad to have you here owner principal creative director with buzzworks creations. Welcome. I'm glad to be here thanks for having me on. Yeah, let's start off tell us. Who are you. Why are you here. What is button works like tell us a little bit about the origin story and how you support the nonprofit community. Well, it all started about 10 years ago I worked for ad agencies that supported nonprofits and I kind of. One day decided well, I'm going break off and do it on my own. And it was also in a line with starting my family. So it's been a business that I've been able to grow and kind of shrink when I introduced a kid into the world. So, but with this growth, we've become an international company we designed websites all around the world. We do both for profit and nonprofit but nonprofit has such a special place in our heart, because it's the people that are making an impact on the world to be able to say, Hey, I worked with my local food pantry. I put 600 meals on a table I didn't physically do it but I gave them the capability to do that. That's what pushes us to keep on supporting our nonprofit clients. I love that you said that and that you open up your mindset to be walking in that stewardship journey. That's super cool. Yeah, it's it's it's a blessing to be able to do it. It's so good. Well, you we have a million questions for you because there is not a nonprofit on this planet who hasn't thought about their website or thinks about it or stresses about it. And let's start from ground zero why are they critical for donors and that donor journey. To put it simply, if you were to go take a donor to a lunch or prospective donor to a lunch, you want to show up in jeans and a t shirt and your Sunday outfit or your Saturday gardening clothes you'd be dressed up nicely, saying, Hey, we will cherish this relationship we respect it. It's the same way online. You want to respect your story you want to respect your mission and give it a good face. And the interesting thing about it is when people are looking at your digital profile they're not just looking at your website. They're looking at your Facebook they're looking at your LinkedIn they're looking at your Google business profile if you're a local nonprofit. They're looking at all of these things, whether you're getting, you're applying for a grant, whether they're looking to be a volunteer, whatever they're looking at they're looking at your digital profile so it's it's very important to take caution of what you're putting out there in the world. Yeah, that digital footprint I think has become more and more because when we look at society and the access to information we talk a lot about the noise there's a lot of noise, but there's a lot of access to information. And whether it's on our watches that we can look thing up, you know things up our phones. There's so many different ways of how we can engage with potential supporters, collaborators and the like. So how is that website, you know, and I get it we don't want to show up muddy head to toes. Julia can emphasize with that because she is a gardener probably a master gardener. But I don't I know for sure she would not show up like that for a donor meeting, unless it was maybe for the botanical gardens. You know, from like the big thing is like the urban gardens. Yes. Because I did have a tour a couple years ago, right before the pandemic, and it was a big urban garden that the Walton family of Walmart had funded and I was really honored to be a part of that and I had my dress and you know everything looked normal but at the bottom I had slipped my garden clogs in my car. When I jumped out I put them on and they were like, Oh, they were mortified that somebody showed up. But I, you know, it's to your point, you kind of want to do what you want to do and do the dirty work and get in there but then at the same time, you've got to be professional and I like how you phrase this you are not the Saturday clothes but your Sunday best. Yeah. You know, before we ask more questions. One of the things that I don't know if it's just me but it seems to, to me when I do, when I look around the community of nonprofits across this country. It is such a wide spectrum. It's like people that are on top of it are amazing they're fabulous. And then there's just like, Okay, we did it we're done on to the next thing there doesn't seem to be a middle point and I'm wondering if you've witnessed that as well or. And it's for several reasons sometimes they don't have they get this beautiful website done, but then they don't plan to have a budget to move forward with continuing and supporting your website. Okay, smart. I never thought of it that way is looking at not just the creation but the management and stewardship and the updates really really interesting. Let's talk about the next steps, what after a donor get you get them to your website by hooker by crook. What happens, what should we be looking for. Well the first thing after they submit that donor payment. The first thing you should be leading them to is another soft call to action, whether it's promoting an event or a newsletter. And it's really simple to do you have your checkout and then it automatically sends you to hey that your donation was successful. Well why not add a little tag at the bottom of that page and say, Hey, we have this event coming up. Why don't you join us for a lot of fun you want to come to it right. Yeah, maybe it's just simply to subscribe to the newsletter to stay active and be able to push the notifications and when you do have that ask specific ask for a campaign now you have their email address, you don't have to go through social media or any news you have direct access to ask for it. That's really smart and I've heard a lot in fact from. I'm going to call out Steven Shattuck right from bloom ring, one of my favorites. He talks about that auto responder that we all get when we make an online donation and how we can really customize and personalize that for the donor journey and Jessica that's exactly what you're saying is to have a soft engagement a soft engagement. And I can ask, you know, it could be. Yeah, we're super cool like come hang out with us come volunteer with us, whether it's an hour or a day, you know, provide that next level engagement. And I think that's you know that's really important because we have to think about the cultivation we have to think about that stewardship, and our website is a perfect way to do that, not to mention, and this is not my forte. It's the foundation that we can depend on. Yes and that goes straight into your welcome series after you get them on to your website and they donate I see you. I know it's so exciting I love it. I love talking about a welcome series. So you don't want to just donate have them donate and it's a simple email you want to welcome them into your world and that's part of what your website is for it's to start these new relationships that you want to have access to. And in just normal day to day persons they're not going to come into your, your storefront or your, or wherever you're located and say hey I'm so and so, but they will give you a donation. And then that opens the door for you to start a bigger and a better relationship. Absolutely. I love that is great. What have you seen, you know, in particular I'm going to call out the last two and a half three years with the COVID pandemic. How have our websites become. I don't know the right word but I feel like Jessica they've really become more important than ever because so many of our offices are programming went into this digital platform right so like, how have you seen our websites really take hold to provide the donor journey the client journey all from this one system. Well the great news is, is that people are comfortable with it. Yes. As that is itself COVID has made people comfortable to a digital relationship. Now, COVID is passing by and now they're like, they're hunger and thirsting for that in person context which is great then that's where we're at with our websites right now. We want to get those relationships, and then we want to take them in person because people are hungry for that in person relationship right now. Yeah, I like what you said about that I think you're absolutely right. It would be so interesting to ask our friend. Tim from neon one if they're dead if their data sets about what the online donation, you know process was on average, and I realize that we're in a changing time on many fronts but how we were donating online. Prior to the pandemic during the pandemic, and then to start tracking it after and to see kind of, you know, what we have gained and learned because I think you're right Jessica. I think the confidence, the ease and understanding, you know what you can do and how to do it. We're educated up the pandemic also created a sense of giving as well and increase giving because they're like, I have extra I can, I know someone else is in need right now so I can give. We've definitely see that you know we've talked a lot about not in this episode but previous about the scarcity mindset and how so many organizations have actually done quite well financially through this pandemic. I, in particular I'm working with an organization that's gone from, you know, an early 1.1 million organization to over 4 million. And that you know it is happened, and that has happened numerous studies across the nation with her 1.8 million registered nonprofits in the US is that not all organizations have struggled during this time some organizations have had the silver lining to catch 22 of growing beyond their wildest dreams, literally unable to spend all the money that they've, that they've been able to secure. Yes, yes, we've seen that too. Yeah, it's interesting. Well let's talk about connecting with donors beyond that donation and what that looks like some tips tricks techniques, talk to us about this. Oh man, so many rabbit holes that you can go down with. Stop, let's do this. So, the first one is probably, and the most important is to let people learn about you, whether it's your history or your mission or if you have a staff change and we're introducing new people into your nonprofit, your achievements for the year or even something that you still have to do. The great thing about a website and any digital marketing you do, it should be aligned with your goals of your nonprofit. So if they are not aligned with your goals, then it's kind of just fluff that you're putting out there. It's not helping you in your mission so why, why are you doing it kind of thing. The first one is sharing your news and your annual reports so annual reports have become a thing that you can put up there digitally. You don't even have to mail it out if you don't have the budget you can make a digital annual report you can easily go and create an annual report if you're nickel and diming it and put it up on your website digitally. Everyone likes a nonprofit that is open about their financials and that they can trust. Your next one is getting people more involved I don't know how many times I've seen a nonprofit website that doesn't have a volunteer form. And as soon as I put that volunteer form and it's so simple you just say what's your name. Where do you want to volunteer, and maybe something that's custom that you need information from them, but it's a simple form and you put it up and they automatically start getting volunteers just because you're putting that ask out there in the community saying we can't run this nonprofit by yourself ourselves, we need those volunteers. Events, we know events are such a big deal with our nonprofits and if we're not able to put it on our home page. If we're not able to create a landing page for people to buy tickets for people to donate. Well, then you're missing opportunities. And the last one is just basically getting connected. The reason why we focus on websites is because we're able to tell the full story, but people like snippet short stories and that's where you get in your social media. So connect them to your social media connect them to your email newsletter so they get those little bites of your story throughout the day. Social media isn't going away it's ingrained in our society. So make sure you're getting them to your different avenues of places they're comfortable to be on. Well, and I've also learned this so fully from Julia Patrick about you'd never do thing with one sole purpose. So what you're saying Jessica about the snippets right like, whether it's your annual report whether it's these also can be repackaged, redelivered in a social media platform in your newsletter, even on your website. There's so many different ways to repurpose, you know what we're saying and telling and success stories and so you for me when I think of like, there's so much to tell there's so much to do. And if we can kind of dial it back, you know, and say, What do we already have right how do we use that. Well, I think that in Jessica maybe you can speak to that I think that's a really interesting piece of, you know, understanding almost the journey that you and your team or if you're working with a consultant is going to take. So for example, you know, okay, we took these images or we have this post we have this blog post, how are, how is this going to be parsed out, and to create more of a plan, so that we're not just responding to things I mean sure there will be emergencies there will be no calls to action but I think the more intelligent thing is is really having more of a structure and I'd love if you could talk about that a little bit. Yeah, how we we focus our content strategy is we kind of come up with an overall theme. And so for the month will have a theme and then it's called a hub and spoke so you have the main theme, and then you break it down into smaller pieces and bite sized pieces that you can share. So, for example, on a blog post we have one main article. And then within that article, we have subtopics and each of those subtopics link out to a new deeper discussion as I said, connecting with your donors so this would be a good example, I gave five points of how you can connect with your donors. So that would be your main large article, then we would take each of those point and write a specific article about that. So now, if you take this to social media, now you have six articles to pull firm of content to put on social media. And I've got a yeah and that's like such a and I love the way you phrased it and structured it, because anyone watching this or listening to this can totally say yeah it's not so overwhelming it's very achievable. And if you look at all of these communications that way, it becomes a logical thing as opposed to sitting around the table saying well what are we going to do now. I have a question for you and I'm in this is like my side of the geek, you know process but I find that a lot of organizations feel like they have to write a novel, as opposed to doing more with smaller pieces and I'm wondering what your advice would be. Do you agree with that or what are your thoughts. There's a catch 22 on that. So longer articles are for SEO purposes. But interesting, but readers will only read your headlines, and if you catch them by your headlines, then they'll maybe read the paragraph but worse, we skim stuff. And if something catches our eye, we read it. If I always say right enough to get your point across. If you don't need a 1500 word blog post don't write a 1500 blog post you're going bore people and you're going bore yourself and you're going to not want to do it anymore. Right. Yeah, no that's that's a good point night. And I like that you had mentioned the SEO of the blogs we have a thought leader coming on and McCully with content writer and she talks and honestly was the first time I learned just like you're saying Jessica. And it is the SEO power in the blog articles and how that is really, you know, advantageous in particular for all of us but nonprofits to really focus on that and so you're right if you don't need a 1500 word don't write a 1500 word but definitely utilize that for the for the SEO. I want to hear this little thing called Google really likes that you know the search and the keywords and that as well and it really just helps up, you know, move you up into that search engine. Yeah, and then when you have those big SEO articles don't just make it an article have them linked out to other pieces. Yes, on your website to get them to something that may be more to the point that they're interested in. And that really takes us back to the beginning when we talk about this digital footprint and how the nonprofits, you know can truly leverage their technology space and the digital, you know, space in which we reside because you said it Jessica it's not just the website, you know people are going on there they're checking social, we send newsletters those icons are certainly at the bottom you know check us out on Instagram or follow us on Twitter. And, and that speaks to really connecting. Before we went live and we're name dropping a lot of awesome people in this episode. If butter right like Floyd had mentioned in his previous episode with us, the power of people and the connection and how people are not our piggy banks, and so we really need to talk and steward these relationships, and, and that's exactly what you're able to do and I'm so glad to hear that you really are international I've helped so many amazing organizations across the globe. Yeah, and then going off your piggy bank, if you don't go and go back to your welcome series. If you don't have that set up. Then your website does become a piggy bank, and they're just coming by and dropping a couple coins and so I'm glad that Floyd Jones address that last week. Yeah, yeah, no meet me too and for those of you that haven't watched that yet. Get ready for some belly laughs because my mom actually text me after that episode and said, Oh my God I was cracking up so if you're ready for a laugh and you're ready to you know just learn, learn some great things yeah great things yeah absolutely that's that's fantastic. So what are you seeing Jessica, you know as we continue into q2 I cannot believe it of 2022. What are you seeing are some like top elements that we need to include in our website. Oh, that's a hard one. I know it's a ball like, it is not because of all. Yeah, if you had a crystal ball you know like what are you seeing. If, if I would say, okay. So the reason we focus I'm going back track a little. The reason why we focused on websites is because websites have always been there websites haven't really ever changed. And it goes back to what are your goals. What are your goals as a nonprofit what are you wanting to achieve. And that's what you need to be focusing on your website whether it's through your blog whether it's putting a landing page up to get new people into your, your nonprofit. You got to look at your goals, and then incorporate. That's really good because I feel like. And I know I'm guilty of this too it's like well, it needs to go on our website that also needs to go on our website, put this on our website and before you know it. You're like, yeah, you're so huge and talk about the user journey, you can get lost in all these rabbit holes. I love sites that we work with they have so many page and I just, our first meeting they're like, we don't need all these pages, take them off. Take. Well, you know, it's hard because it's such a new way for us, you know, as a society to communicate. And to, we work so hard on these things, we work so hard on this writing or this brochure or this social media post, and then you want it to live somewhere, you know, and it's, it's a hard thing to realize, you got to stop take a deep breath and figure out what it is you want. Well an easy way to solve that is kind of, you have to go to the analytics side and look at the numbers. Is this post really doing anything for for my website. Do I need to take this post that's not getting a lot of hits and take this post over here that is getting a lot of hits and combine them into one and make it marry them into a happy family. I love it. I had a conversation with the neighbor and she's our neighborhood association person. And we're talking about like the neighborhood drama and she goes, I don't like drama, but I like data. And so that's exactly the point it's like, let's look at the data right like what is the data the analytics, not drama but like telling us, you know, because we can push and promote and put all of these pages on our website, but it comes down to the analytics, what is the data telling us and I think you might need to come on Jessica and talk about that telling us. Wow, well you know this has been great our time has flown by. I think that you gave us some great ideas and really helped remind us that this is not a one and done thing this is an investment that we make in our organization so that our donor investors can invest with us right and so we most definitely need to be really talking about this and looking at this communication opportunity in a much more strategic and healthier way. I know it seems like a plague for so many. I learned a lot today from you and I know for the viewers of the nonprofit show, you can learn a lot from buzz works as well. Here's Jessica's information coming to us from Texas but you work all over the globe. Good for you which is super exciting. And I just love what you had to say thank you so much for sharing with us today. Thank you Julie and Jared for having me on the show it's been a pleasure. Absolutely. For those of you that are listening buzzworks.com be use easy wks.com is how you can find Jessica so again for our podcast listeners make sure that you do check her out. I haven't told you who we were will remind you one more time. I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy been joined today by my nonprofit nerd you're nonprofit nerd the nonprofit nerd. Jared ransom CEO of the Raven group. Again we want to thank all of our sponsors without them, they would not be would not be here. We're marching well past our 500th episode which blows my mind. We want to thank bloom orang American nonprofit Academy your part time controller nonprofit nerd fundraising Academy, the nonprofit Atlas nonprofit that leader and staffing boutique. And as we end another episode that really got my mind going a million different ways in a in a good way, Jessica in a good way. We want to remind everyone and ourselves to stay well. So you can do well we'll see you back here tomorrow.