 What's happening with human rights around our world on Think Tech Live, broadcasting from our downtown studio in Honolulu, Hawaii, and Moana, Nuiakea. I'm your host, Joshua Cooper, and today we're looking at the most powerful weapon for Ukraine, truth. Natalia's role to fight Russian integration, and I'm so honored to be joined with Natalia, the co-founder and CEO of Natalia. Natalia, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. It's my pleasure to be with you tonight. Actually, your morning, our night. Yes, and truth is known as the first casualty of war, and in Ukraine, though, the women in the war are making sure the truth is alive and well. Natalia was born with a bold vision to create a Ukraine data battalion to inform people in conflict and the entire world with what's really happening in the senseless war. Can you share with us how you were inspired to create such an important instrument? It all started from the, basically, all started on the first day of war. When the war started, I'm originally from Kiev, so I was lucky enough to escape from Kiev on the first night of bombing with my kids. And I went to a safe place in Western Ukraine to my mom's and for four days, you know, I was helping to host internally displaced people to ask and to help, you know, through my international network to help to get some deliveries to Ukraine of vast helmets of some, you know, like food to the occupied to the to the territories in conflict. And I was thinking like what I can do more, you know, when I'm still in the safe part of Ukraine at that time, and how I can help. Because of my previous work, I had a tremendous network abroad, living all over the world. Because I did fellowship at Stanford, I started in Germany, I worked in Canada, and I also worked as a trade minister in Ukraine. So I have this, you know, like very big network of my foreign friends. So from from the first day of war, I started posting on my social media about like really what's going on. And every day, you know, all my friends told me, you know what, you are our source of information, because what we see on major TV channel, international TV channels, or foreign, you know, like TV channels or our home TV channel. Actually, we don't see those pictures, we don't see those videos that you are posting, we don't see all this information. And I was curious like why. And then one night, my friend and former partner from yes, she called me. And it was like very early in the morning in Ukraine, because she is living in LA. And that was like five in the morning in Ukraine and I just got back home from bombshell that when I was sitting with my kid after sirens and she was calling me three times I was like, oh my God, something should be going on. You know, like why she's calling me like three times. And she was like, okay, you know what switch on TV switch on this channel switch on this channel look what they are broadcasting. I mean Ukraine is being bombed you just posted from your picture from bomb shelter from bomb shelter and what we are seeing is just a nice interview from the peaceful part of Ukraine. You know about like how people are, they are just hypothesizing what they will do if you know like there will be like bombs flying over or there will be like, you know, like some other negative, you know, situation so basically, and she was like you need to like the world needs to see what I'm seeing on your social network, because people don't feel the pain they don't understand that that's like a real war what's going on in Ukraine. So I started like that morning I started reaching to my friends that were working in media business and that were like my friends foreign journalists asking like what's going on. They were showing only this pictures and they told me you know what, there are no war journalists in Ukraine at that time, because there were only journalists you know just an ordinary journalist and because of the company's policies and because of the security regulations to leave their hotel, and those that came to Ukraine were also not war journalists so they could stay only in the very safe, you know, cities at that time. So basically, the war was covered from the bunkers or from the safe places therefore, you know what we've seen first, like four days and seven days of the war were the discovery. So what we are starting to do and they told us, you know, like I was brainstorming with them like what we can do to change it and they told okay, you should create the database of eyewitness photos and videos from the front lines of war, and provide this access to foreign journalists. So they can see like what's really going on, they can use these pictures or they can basically only just, you know, like what potentially, you know, see what's going on in these regions and then when the war journalist would come they could send this war journalist to this particular region and they would at least have understanding, like what the situation is. So within first 24 hours, I just, you know, posted on my social media, and I already had team of four volunteers and was in first 48 hours we already had 104 videos in the database, and we started granting access to the journalists that basically we were brainstorming with. And that's how it all started. And the idea was, look, we need the world to see what's really going on in Ukraine, because we need help now. And it's not that it's just some fictional situation, or like there is no war, it's only operation, they need to see that civilians are being killed, that kids are being killed and injured, that Russians are bombing and hitting not only, you know, not only military objects, they are targeting civilian infrastructure, they are targeting, you know, houses, they really, you know, like kill and harm ordinary and Ukrainian people, and they are, you know, harming animals, they are, you know, brutally actually shooting into elderly. So that was it, that was story, and we decided we just need to go on. And our work from one side became kind of easier when a lot of foreign and international channels, they send war photographers and war journalists into Ukraine that could do the coverage. But even with them, you know, there were so few of them in Ukraine, and there were so many dangerous places that even those war journalists could not go. You know, if it's like frontline and the city is being occupied. There are only source of information for all the journalists and for also for all politicians and decision makers all over the world, in foreign government, in international organizations are only those videos and photos, because that's, that's, you know, how you can get information about people living in occupied, for example, now in occupied her son, it's from the eyewitness, you know, like videos and photos and from some, you know, like intelligence information. So, so basically, we, we continued working on that. And, and we managed to create the largest independent free public and what is most important for us aggregated database. So we are aggregating photos and videos from different courses. And we are making life of journalists, politicians, researchers easier because we are actually sorting this videos into groups. So they are all divided into date. They are all divided into regions. And they also have that, you know, like what you have and they will, and they also have description on like what's going on on the video, and they have also the name source where we took it if we can. So we divide them into like trusted information. That's the videos and photos that we took from official websites of the Ukrainian government and government agencies. We have so called information is like official then we have trusted information and that's the sources that we use for example from Ukrainian media that we can name. And we also have category of videos that are not verified. And we just, you know, indicate the sources source where we took it, but we are not, we are just, you know, like letting everybody know that they need to do that work in terms of verification of this video. So, so that's what we have. It's very helpful and we can see that the Italian ensures the truth is an important homegrown weapon in finding the Russian aggression and the disinformation campaigns that have been targeting Ukraine from even before the war started so that's what makes it such a valuable tool. Yes, I agree with you but we, you know, like we cannot stop we are working every day and like our database is increasing. But what we what we've experienced is that when when there are a lot of like much more work correspondence in Ukraine now, and we are exploring journalists and people they have access also to this official video. We recently introduced a new program which is called I witness database. We have around more than 70 eyewitnesses verified eyewitnesses that if any journalist or think tank or politician would like to hear the statement, we can put them in touch with those people and those people are ready to go public, and they ready to tell their story, because it's very important for us, you know, not only to show the video but also to provide people that can be witness that can witness, you know, what they experienced and what they've seen, or what they gone through. You know, we have witnesses that went through filtration camps in Russia in order to get out from Mariupol, we have witnesses that lost that close one. We have witnesses that lost their business, you know, because the Russian bomb keeps the production capacity. We, it's, you know, it's like those, like we have witnesses that lost their kids. And it's, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's hard to talk about the stories, but the only way for us to tell the truth about the war in Ukraine is to bring into the loop those people and to show their perspective on what Russia is doing to civilians, to Ukrainian families, and to show, you know, like how horrible. I mean, it's like all the situation is and what the atrocities Russia and Russian army are doing in Ukraine. No, and the documentation from the people's perspective sharing exactly what's going on is so powerful and as you said it's painful, but then it also gives people a taste of what's really happening as opposed to maybe a sterile version, or some that's really not sharing all of the intense suffering that people are facing on a moment by moment, every hour for the last 158 days. And I think that's probably the most powerful part of the tally on as well as it's following a rich model of witness created by Peter Gabriel to make sure that video can be made and could be made by the people who are being impacted directly on the and then sharing that directly with people around the world who also want to know what's happening, because that's what's crucial, especially as this continues on longer and longer. The sad part is, as you said how people are surviving camps how people are being their lives are being shattered with constant bombing, and just being able to see that footage raw allows people to experience what you're sharing, which is why it's so crucial, as you also began to share it with policymakers that it's then a tool as well to be able to guide people in governments to make better decision on what's really needed on the ground, maybe you can share how the information has been used. Yes, and you just, you just raised a very important point is that a lot of politicians and a lot of decision makers global leaders around the world they take that decision, usually based on the briefs, like written documents or written papers provided to them by the intelligence by their special agencies that are working with Ukraine. And they, you know, not all these papers would just show the suffering that Ukrainians are going through, and the urgency of providing some help or assistance to Ukraine. So we are using our database, and we are using the witnesses, in order to show to foreign and global top leaders and decision makers, the urgency of providing help to Ukraine. And the latest one that we had, we just recently were helping to organize an exhibition in U.S. Senate, organized by Ukrainian Embassy and the Italian and a few other think tanks and organization in U.S. where we featured pictures of two Ukrainian photographers, one of which unfortunately has been shot to death by Russians, Mark Slavin, and he was just executed with, you know, like with the press sign on him and other, other things. And we were featuring these pictures just to show the level of suffering that Ukrainians are going through in order for, you know, U.S. senators to understand like what's going on in Ukraine, not only on briefs. Thanks God, we have this level of support in U.S. that we have now, and a lot of U.S. senators already been to Ukraine. So like what they are seeing in the pictures is not that they haven't like heard about, but still we need to keep attention to Ukraine issue all over the world in order to let the foreign government to help us to help ourselves, because we are not asking, you know, just like come to Ukraine and fight for us. No, we are just saying please help us to help ourselves by sending weapons, financial assistance and humanitarian assistance. That's what we are talking. We will continue, like this exhibition is just a start, a launch event for a number of other exhibitions all over the U.S. in order to show in different states what's really going on in Ukraine, and to keep fighting the war fatigue, because that's what we're hearing that a lot of people are giving up on Ukraine because we have a lot of problems at home. We have a lot of internal issues. We have a lot of local issues around. But I just want to remind everybody, and that's one of the purpose of this exhibition, that this war, it's not only about Ukraine. Ukraine is now fighting for the whole global democratic world, because it's fight for global democracy. It's not only fight for Ukraine, the independence of our future, fight for global future, and it's fight for global value. And every person that believe in democracy should not give up on Ukraine and should still stand up for Ukraine and help, you know, like to help us to fight. Oh, the Italian is definitely a significant element of the current campaign to ensure freedom and to make sure that the Italian illustrates how women are leading and taking an active role in defending Ukraine, but also forging your freedom, a future freedom of expression around the world, because that's really a larger campaign that also exists of the disinformation by autocratic regimes to try to sow division, and also make sure that there is not the unity that we've been able to see and have maintained so far in the movement for democracy, human rights, justice and freedom inside Ukraine. Yes, you're right. And I think that the women angle is very important, because 75% of all Italians, whole team are women. Most of them are mothers and wives. Some of them are even, you know, like they have grandchildren. So basically what we are doing and what we are fighting for, we are fighting for the future of our kids. We're not fighting for our future. Some of the women are still in Ukraine and that's their decision. They decided to stay to backup them and some women are left the project that are in advance to Ukrainian army. Some women are abroad because they left in order to protect their family and their kids and elderly ones. Some women were abroad and got back to Ukraine. So it's, you know, I think that the power of women voice all over the world is very important, because if other women globally would support Ukrainian women, it would show up that women voices matter. And it's a global fight for future. And it's also a global fight for women rights and women empowerment, because what Russia is trying to do is they are trying not only to diminish and destroy global democratic value, but among inter alia they are trying also to destroy the, you know, like the global understanding that women rights matters and women empowerment matters, because all the crimes that they are actually committing in Ukraine against Ukrainian women, it's just about, you know, diminishing the whole of women and actually punishing Ukrainian women for being independent and not being like, you know, like a lot of women, a lot of generally women in Russia in their, you know, like far away, far away and small cities. So it's, it's again, it's a fight for, for part of democracy, which is women's right. And I'm happy that we have that our team is not withstanding all the problems that Ukrainian women are now facing, you know, and they, and there are a lot of problems, because a lot of people are internally displaced, some people are living, you know, that part of the family are living in destroyed houses, some are living in destroyed apartments. Kids are doing online schooling and you need always to go to the bomb shelters in Ukraine. If you go once abroad, you are basically forceful refugee because it was not your intention, you know, to become a refugee, you just like happen to be a refugee and need to settle in, in, in totally, you know, different country with your kids and settle your life there. And not withstanding all these problems and all these issues. Ukrainian women are fighting, some are fighting on the front lines, some are fighting on their own front lines. So our front line is informational front line. And all our women are working. They are taking care of their kids and elderly because men stayed in Ukraine or men are engaged in more dangerous volunteer assignments. And they are also volunteering. So it's, you know, it's even like the situation is even worse than in COVID time, because a lot of people were saying that in COVID times women were doing two shifts. But in Ukraine, the women are doing three shifts because they are still volunteering and like what is, what is very important for me that it's Ukrainian women are not giving up. They are still fighting and it's, it's, this fight continues and they are not losing face. And the, and I think that it's very important for all of us this fight is very important part of our life now. It is and the, the women waging information war is absolutely crucial. And as you described the multi levels of what women must face due to the war, plus also COVID, plus all the elements that we find ourselves in. That's why I think this female founded initiative on the front lines is really so exciting but it's also organizing an entire movement of women around the world uniting together to make sure that all people can live in peace. And what you document is what women face and that doesn't always make the headlines. And I think sharing those stories then mobilizes people to be more involved and see what we can all do to support this feminist female founded initiative. I agree. And I think that, you know, like we will keep fighting, and we will keep developing our database and bringing attention to what's going on in Ukraine in, like through our advocacy program, because we are on the mission. And our mission is to help Ukraine to win this war, and we will do whatever it takes, you know, like to help Ukraine to win this war. Like we will do it with our database, we will do it with our interviews, we will do it with the eyewitness statements, we will do it through participation in major events and telling the truth what's going on. We will do it by asking, you know, our audience to donate and to help Ukraine through different initiatives. And we will also, and we also partnering with a lot of other Ukrainian projects that are also works on the front line, on informational front line, because we believe that if we are united, we have more power. And it's not that like that could not be too much truth. You know, if we just tell more truth to the world and we'll tell like more what's going on and more voices to be heard, then like the voices become louder and people like just can't ignore it or people need to react. So, we work every day with other projects and trying to create different type of partnership in order to make actually the world see and hear what's going on in Ukraine. And now with the coverage of major international channels having their work correspondence in Ukraine, the coverage on top TV channels and newspapers is pretty much different from what we experienced during first week of the war. And we have much more, you know, a good coverage from the front lines and from the atrocities site. But we still believe that more could have been said and can be said. So we will be working to bring to the world the full picture of what's going on in Ukraine from the first day of war till today, and through the whole geographies through the whole country and covering all the regions and providing all information. And I witnesses from all over Ukraine and that once through different situation and using our witnesses and photos and videos actually to push global decision makers and top leaders to take the decision that they need to take in order to preserve the wall. And it's probably even more valuable as well. When the war concludes so that we actually have an accurate record of what happened. When you look at maybe the UN Human Rights Council commission of inquiry to hold accountable, as well as the potential war crimes that are being committed on a daily basis that this information will then be able to set up in a way and be used for tools to make sure that it deters future dictators from doing such actions because there could be accountability for those war crimes and crimes of aggression that they commit against. Yes, I agree with you here because our, our next potential, our next potential project is collecting the evidences of the war crimes, because what we have as of today, you just collection of videos and photos that could prove the massive amount of the evidence, but we will work, we will work more in the nearest future was potentially with some foreign partners that have experience of collecting similar, you know, like evidences from the, from the war zones, in order to start collecting the evidences of this war crimes. And in order to punish those that were, you know, giving orders to shoot at civilians. For punishing those that were raping Ukrainian women, killing Ukrainian kids, because you're right, it's very important for the world to know that all the atrocities will not be left unpunished. I think that by doing so by closing this circle, you know, creating archive of what has happened and telling the future generation, like why it should not be ever, you know, the world should not ever come to this situation. We are also working for for future generation globally. Thank you so much, Natalia for creating the Italian. It's really an amazing initiative. It's home to the largest free and independent open source database to photos and video footage from the senseless war against Ukraine. And we appreciate your bravery and the beauty of the importance of this project to tell the world the truth. Mahalo. Thank you so much for pleasure being with you. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.