 Well, hello and welcome to the nonprofit show. We are so glad you're here. It's another episode. And today we have with us Katie Warnick, CEO at Staffing Boutique. And Katie, we're so glad to have you bringing us today, Recruiting Gen Z Strategy. So this is going to be an interesting conversation. You have a lot to share with us and we have a lot to learn. So stay with us. We also want to remind you who we are. So hello to you, Julia, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And thank you for creating this brilliant platform of the nonprofit show. I'm Jarrett Ransom, your nonprofit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group and honored to serve alongside you, Julia, day in and day out as we have these conversations with thought leaders like Katie today. And we have also so much gratitude to our amazing presenting sponsors that allow us these opportunities. Like talking about the Gen Z community and the workforce. So thank you Blimering American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at National University, Nonprofit Thought Leader, your part-time controller, Staffing Boutique, again where Katie joins us from. Nonprofit Nerd, as well as Nonprofit Tech Talk. And we like to remind you that many, if not all of these companies really, have been with us from the very beginning, March of 2020 and helped us to produce, ready for this, nearly 900 episodes. So we are marching towards that milestone. And if you missed any of our episodes, that's okay. We've got you covered, my friend. So you can go ahead and download the app to the right of this visual. If you are watching, you can scan that QR code and you can download the app. We also are still on the podcast platforms as well as the broadcast platforms. So don't worry, wherever you like to stream and really just absorb your entertainment, we're there for you. I still like to say, Julia, we're working on that hologram and who knows with AI, it might happen sooner than later. I think, you know, the reality of it is, Jared, you can speak into your smart remote if you have a smart TV. And it's scary because those smart TVs are pretty big, but we will pop up on the screen soon. We'll be sitting in those sofas, I think, next to everybody. So yeah, you never know. Katie Warnick, founder and CEO of Staffing Boutique. We love when you come on the show because in the very beginning, Jared and I were like, how do we get these people to join Zoom meetings, right? And it's just like, we've, I feel like we've seen the phases of society through your eyes because you are engaged in labor and it's been fascinating and it's never the same when you are on. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah, it's really nice to have you both here at the same time. It's like the gang's back together. Right. That's right. Another tour for us. Well, Katie, you join us from the New York community. And as Julia said, you really do have your feet on the ground when it comes to the workforce, the labor force. So today we're diving deep in the Gen Z and the generation Zoomers, right? And so this is the generation that's born between the 1990s and the 2010s. So they are currently between the ages of like in their teens to the age of 25. What other dynamics, characteristics would you like to share with us when it comes to the generation Zoomers? Wow, there's a lot of characteristics. They're just, you know, one thing is their their ability to take technology on, I think is their biggest skill set. And we'll get into that later. But they are so used to receiving information so quickly and rapidly, right? So they really are digital natives. And we have to think from a recruitment perspective, which is what I'm always doing is how can we capture that audience as quick and efficient as possible. So over the past, basically, since I've known you all, we've worked on our social media to attract that talent, specifically because we do so much work in the substitute teaching space in charter schools. So basically getting our substitute teaching jobs out immediately and as quick and efficiently as possible. Because that's our target audience is those Gen Zers for those jobs. Wow. So that is fascinating, because I didn't I didn't really think of it that way. I was thinking more about their personalities. But the reality is how they access information and how they track it is absolutely fascinating. So the next well, if you want to talk about their personalities, I mean, I could make a few judgments. I do want to get into that. I do want to get but I've got to ask you this. Does this mean because of their their technology prowess and their technological mentality? Are they more like 24 seven? Like they're 24 seven, they're always going. They're also expecting instant gratification all the time, right? So they need constant technology technological reinforcement. So that's that like button mentality. You know what I mean? So they're always looking for some sort of correspondence back. They are always they're always wanting that quick reply. So I think that that shapes just their personality in general. They don't know patience. Okay, so you blow my mind because Jared, patience is like a guide star word in the nonprofit sector, right? Yes. You know, and I do say in the nonprofit sector, it's hurry up and wait, right? Like it's a hurry up and wait mentality. Gen Z is not a hurry up and wait, you know, generation. So they really, as you said, Katie, that that instant gratification. Let's talk up to like, are they interested in the nonprofit sector? Like I feel like we've had you on, right? And you've talked about some of the benefits that our workforce is looking for now, working remote, making a difference, things like that. So how interested is the Gen Z in working at nonprofits? So if I if you were to just ask me this, I would say very interested. I think that the nonprofit sector has done a really good job with just branding and reaching out and sort of like, as generations have occurred, more and more people want to get into the nonprofit sector, it's definitely become more well known. I think that when I've shared the story before, but when I started doing recruiting right out of college, I didn't even know like the nonprofit sector was a sector, I didn't know philanthropy was an industry, right? Like, and so I think that that message has definitely developed and been clear. In terms of, do they want to work at nonprofits? Where are they? I looked at some statistics, it seems like the polls from 2020 was at about 50% of Gen Zers do want to work in the sector, which is amazing. So when they are looking for their careers, they're not necessarily just looking for means of income, but they are looking for a way to give back back in some capacity. Amazing. So that's riveting because that changes so much of the landscape for how we recruit and what we think about the types of labor coming in, because Gen Z is a highly educated demographic. It's going to be like they're coming to nonprofits probably with a lot of education and bringing some of that insight that maybe didn't exist before, right? A lot of education and then also getting into the labor force post COVID, going through a lot of social justice issues on a public level, it seems that their interests when we're talking about the nonprofit sector are more specifically in social justice, education equality, healthcare issues. So things that we've really seen come out in the media quite a bit in the past three years, that's where the interest is. Well, and the other thing I've seen is, and I'm in my mid-40s and I say because it didn't exist, the nonprofit management school did not exist when I was going through my undergrad, right? This is accessible now to this generation. Many of these young leaders have achieved a nonprofit management degree, right? Like they are educated in the sector, which is fascinating to me. I love it because for me doing recruiting as long as I have, when I used to see a resume from someone who worked a college telethon or a fundraiser, those candidates were like gold to me. Recent college grads that worked for the foundation office of their college, I'm like, oh my goodness, like a young person that knows what philanthropy is, this is amazing. And now we're being able to turn out and see those resumes more and more. And it's so important in my business and then for the sector in general. So it's great. Yeah, really interesting. So we've got a group of people that have a lot of potential, I think. They're more educated. They've been through a really interesting social disruption called COVID plus some other ancillary, we, Jared and I always say, pandemic's plural. You know, social justice, civil unrest. I mean, a discourse tone that's changed and really become much more vitriolic. So what is attracting this Gen Z labor force and what are they looking for to kind of help them make their decision of where they're going to work? So one of the first key points when pulled was technology. Is the organization or company forthcoming within technology? Like, have they evolved? So that was a big thing when pulled of what is attracting Gen Zers to organizations and companies. So I think that that's huge when you're talking to an executive director or a board member who still has the same software from 1998, you have to think about who is going to be bringing your organization forward and have you moved on with technology as the sector has changed, as fundraising has changed, as technology and fundraising has changed. It's going to impact who wants to work at your organization within these Gen Zers. You know, that to me is so interesting. Back to my, you know, hurry up and wait mentality and comment. You know, I really do still find that our nonprofit friends are the last to adopt technology and especially like new technology, right? Advancement in technology, efficiency systems, integrations, right? Like things like that. So that to me is really interesting. And I wonder, Katie, if they're also kind of being like put in a box of like, oh, great, you can be our IT person or you can be like you can always be our person because you have an affinity for this and you fit the you fit the, you know, description. That's interesting. I didn't even think about it that way, you know, but it's not a bad idea. You know, so many nonprofits that I deal with don't even have really IT. They have consultants that are outdoors. So it certainly opens up a specific job for that sector. Yeah. You know, it's it's such a tough thing, too, because I'm sure they get this at home with their parents and their grandparents. And it's like, you know, yeah, come on in. Now, here's my iPad. How do I fix this, you know, type of a thing? And I'm sure to Jared's point, there's a lot of frustration with how everybody else is working and communicating. Correct. The second thing when pulled was diversity. Just having a diverse organization is huge. And then actually having strong diversity, equity, inclusion processes in place and living up to those standards. So that was the second thing. I think that that I can't say that that's specific to Gen Z. I think that that's really opening up across all generations. What I'm seeing that is an important thing when looking for a job. If you want to talk about that a little bit more. Yeah, I think that's fascinating because these are not necessarily people of color. These are people, you know, white middle class people that are looking at this, right? Right. Yeah. And, you know, I think I've used this example before on the show. It's like, so many people post COVID were like, we need to diversify our staff. And then you look at the website of the organization and all the senior leadership is white. All the board is white. And then they have an admin job and they say that they want to hire a diverse candidate. And that really doesn't help. You know, why do you want to have the admin, the person supporting be the diverse candidate, we need to start changing it from board, board level, and then the C-suite as well. So thinking about that, your branding on your website is that representing what your diversity strategy says it is. So I think that that's a huge factor. And then the third point was independence. And that just kind of goes along with the freedom, the work from home, the flexible hours, and all the things that we have been talking about retaining employees are super duper important to Gen Z. Keeping in mind that everything that they do is going to lead with technology. So essentially they can work from anywhere, whenever they want, and just being flexible on their demands. It's the management relationship. And we have a question from one of our viewers, Julia. So I'm going to pull that up now. And here it is, Katie. So as a manager from a different generation, instant gratification and the lack of patience part can be difficult to deal with. So what are ways that I can help my Gen Z employees understand I need a minute to process, a minute to think or to handle what they're asking as their request from me without making them feel like I don't care about that part of their personality and needs? And this is a fascinating comment slash question. It is. Yeah, I love it. What do you bring to this, Katie? Yeah, I mean, I think that that's something that I actually work on myself, both in my personal and professional life. I used to be super duper reactive upon anything. If there was a way to be confrontational, I would jump at it. So I think that coming from a different generation, people do respect when you say, I need a minute to process this. Let me get my thoughts together and I'll get back to you tomorrow. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. And I think people respect it. So whoever you're dealing with, get used to saying, I need a minute to process this and being candid, because most times when you react, it's not really your intention, you know, when you react right away to something, you know, you've given it no thought. And then you wind up having to backpedal. So I think that just being honest and saying that's this generation is sufficient. Yeah, you know, I appreciate your answer. I'll add to it just a little bit because I have a 12 year old going on 13 year old. And I will tell you, I often use the phrase, I don't care. And it's not that I don't care, it's that I don't want to give that my energy, but that word care is really taken to heart, right? And so I love that this, and they submitted it as an anonymous attendee, right? But really, like, how can I, how can I acknowledge this employee so that they don't feel as if I don't care? And so that word really spoke to me because words do matter with this generation. And I love, you know, really having that response that you said, Katie of like, hey, give me a minute, let me get back to you tomorrow. Or, you know, that kind of like standard response, I think is good to pocket. Yeah, always. I think it takes 24 hours to process anything, for sure. Yeah. Well, and especially in a time in the nonprofit sector where we deal with so many crisis issues, right? And so, you know, generally, the days are never the same. A lot of us in the sector spend a lot of time responding, right, spend a lot of time working on strategy. And I think for those managers that came up through the hubbub of an active site, office, campus, program, programmatic centered world, to be in a desk or in a workspace where it's calm and it's different, they don't have, they don't link up, right? They don't sync up. And so there's kind of a different, I don't know, different sense of activity level and crisis response. I mean, it's just kind of a visceral thing, I think as well. I really, really do. You know, I want to jump ahead a little bit and ask you this question. And as a recruiter in the nonprofit space, what are Gen Z qualifications when a lot of them, they're not even 25 yet. And so how do we look at this labor market as somebody who we want to go after? I feel you, Julia, because I saw that question, I'm like, they have no skills. You know, I don't think I had skills. And so I was like 33, you know, and that was after working for 10 years. But, you know, you really do have to look at technology as their biggest skill set. And that's what they're going to bring to the table in any organization. And here's my thought process on this is I was just having this conversation with me with someone yesterday who started his own foundation. And we were just talking about the different level of donor engagement that we have to start rolling out sort of that 60 plus with money and mentality is going to this little way soon. So how are we attracting donors at different levels? And we're going to do that through our Gen Zers. So and when you're looking at that, I saw some statistics, I mean, Gen Z really can't financially give, right? But they can certainly get the message out of your organization to other Gen Zers to volunteer so that they are, you know, settled with your organization. So when they do have the ability to actually give, they will and they'll stay with your organization. So I know that that's kind of a roundabout answer. But you really have to look at the technology skill set that they're bringing to the table, the new positions that they can create within your organization, whether that's the content strategy, the social media engagement, whatever it is, and really tap into their skill sets there. Because I guarantee 75% of organizations, even though that they have social media aren't using it correctly, and aren't engaging Gen Zers as their new target audience, you know, they're, they're engaging their old donors. Yeah. And social media is ever evolving, right? I mean, new platform just came out on Instagram. Was that right? Threads? Threads. Well, it's, it's part of, you know, meta. So it's, yeah, it's an integration between Facebook and Instagram. And yeah, to go up against Twitter. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. What about Katie? I feel like in this generation, many of them might be active throughout their college years, right? Like serving in a fraternity, sorority, maybe even taking on some leadership roles. And that way, are they gaining qualifications above and beyond technology, right, to bring to the sector? What, what does that look like? Because I do feel that, you know, they might not have the capacity of finances, but they do have the capacity of time. So how are they using their time to, I guess, evolve some of those qualifications for the career? I think that we have to really just look at it is, are, are they learning about volunteering in different organizations in college? I think that can kind of be across the board that whenever you see a resume with a volunteer experience or even internship experience, like that's a way better resume than someone like me who bartended through college. You know what I mean? So really tapping into someone's skill sets that they have developed. And yeah, using whatever that is for your organization and short time is certainly something. Yeah. Well, I think bartending, right? You've got customer service. You've got multi-tasking. You've got inventory. Like there's some qualifications in that. And you have drug people. You have drug people that you have to deal with. Sure, sure. I agree with you. I think that's where champions are born. I really, really do. That's another topic for another day. Because I think Katie bartended in my hometown, even though she's in New York City. That would never be easy. Hey, before we let you go, can we talk about the retention rate of Gen Z? Because I think this is a problematic thing for a lot of us. And I'd love to get your perspective on this. Should we just plan that they're going to be in and out and they're not going to stay for 20 years? That makes me sad. Well, I got to say, you know what, Dana's away and I'm doing a search right now and I'm looking at these resumes and I'm just like, oh my goodness, their tenure on these candidates is so bad. But I don't see it getting better. It's crazy. But I think that we really, if we're talking specifically about Gen Z and retention, keys to that is, again, all the things that we already mentioned, the work life balance. The skills development was big. You know, they do want a job where they can see where they're going next. And that's kind of that instant gratification thing. One thing I was reading, which I thought was cool was kind of like rotating, so like job rotating. So within an organization, taking someone that's interested in your organization and then having like a rotation program, or maybe they work in programs for a little bit and then they go to development or something like that, which I think is pretty cool to do if you can make that work in any sort of capacity. I think smaller organizations might be able to swing that a little bit easier. I thought that that was a cool idea. You know, professional development, those are all great things to do. One other thing that I read about was a VTO, volunteer time off. So because our Gen Zers are so interested in social impact and giving back, like actually having a program where they are off from work, but they have to do volunteer hours. And I think that a lot of corporations do have specific days like that that they require, but it's not necessarily as a volunteer time off. So looking into that a little bit more, I thought that that was a really cool sort of outside of the box retention strategy. Like that. I like to, and I feel like more teams, I'm seeing this Katie where the leadership is really advocating for this as a department, you know, like really how can we serve our community even if we are a non-profit, right? Like how can we also be of service to other organizations, partner organizations, other critical missions, you know, that make up our community. I think that's a big piece of what, you know, this demographic is looking for. Absolutely. I love that. I think that's a great point, because we always think about it's the for-profit community coming into our organizations, but I love that concept of saying, no, we can go out and be of service, you know, within maybe not even our sector. Maybe we do human services, but we go into animal welfare or, you know. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think that's really smart. I really do. Well, sorry to just cut you off. I just wanted to say, you know, when we talk about retention, it's something that is so important. So I mean, I always say like your recruitment is nothing if you don't have a retention strategy. So then if we need to really look at retention and then break it up by generation, you know, I think that a really smart human resources department is going to plug into that and the organization will be in really good shape. So it's really up to HR, small organizations, executive directors, board members, whatever to plug into that area of retention and really hone your skills over the next five years to keep with this audience, to keep with this generation. Yeah. And I would like to add to what I feel in our sector, you know, is if a leader, a young leader comes in and there's not advancement opportunity, right? We might lose them to another organization, but to me, I feel that it's our commitment to the individual into the sector, you know, let's get them to be the most amazing leader in our organization. They might go somewhere else and hopefully they're still contributing to the community. And I've seen them come back on, right? Like I've seen that same leader come back in a higher position that, you know, they go, they gain additional qualifications, experience somewhere else and then they come back. So I kind of feel like, you know, to your point, Julia, they're probably not staying 20 years because there's probably not advancement for, you know, opportunities for them. Right. And I think too, you know, people aren't taking, I know up to that age, I mean, people don't take you seriously. No. You said it, Katie, perfectly, you weren't really formed inefficient until you were about 33, right? That's what I feel. Yeah, I agree. I know, I kind of agree with that. So yeah, that's a hard thing. Well, I always, always learned something new from you, Katie Warnick, CEO and founder of Staffing Boutique. You're an amazing part of the sector because I kind of feel like you give us a heads up months before we really know what's going on because you're in the labor part. And so that's like one of the first things that starts to shift and change. And so I know that Jared and I've talked about this, when we feel like there's something bubbling, when we get you on, I think you kind of help guide us to where those bubbles are going to flow up and pop. So this has been... Banger on the pulse over here. Yeah, you got it, sister. I really, I love it. Hey, everybody again, if we hadn't met, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, been with my non-profit nerd and your non-profit nerd, Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. Again, we have amazing sponsors and supporters that have been with us, most of these folks from day one, and that includes Staffing Boutique. We are so blessed to have the leadership and the support from Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, non-profit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University. Of course, Katie and her team at Staffing Boutique, non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk. Yeah, check out Katie's group because they do a lot of really interesting things in the sector. And we got one quick comment that I want to share and somebody writes in fabulous session. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, really good information. So thank you, Katie, because you keep your finger on the pulse, you keep us apprised of the changes of the landscape and the workforce, and this is a much needed conversation. So thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. When we have, I'm going to do like a little tease before we sign off, when we have Staffing Boutique on next, we have another one of your team members, Dana Scurlock, coming on. And she's actually going to be talking with us about how you research a candidate and do that background check, if you will, and what you can do, what you can't, what you should do. And I'm looking forward to that because I think that's one of those things that we don't have a lot of information, we have a lot of fear about. And so that's going to be a lot of fun. And that will be coming up in about a month or so. So yeah, check that out. Hey, everybody, as we like to end every episode of the nonprofit show, we want to remind ourselves, our viewers, our listeners, certainly our guests and sponsors to stay well, so you can do well.