 Howdy, what's up everyone? How's everyone doing? I'm barely awake. I apologize in advance I've been on a backwards fucking schedule. So got to move again soon. So Fun there. Everybody loves moving. I feel about that So now we're just waiting for not so to show up so we can get this party started. I came a little early That's what she said What's up old song you doing? How's everyone doing? Before not so gets here. Don't forget to join the patreon guys. We have some cool shit going on tomorrow. There's some fights I'll be watching and it'd be cool I also have the Hawaiian lights drop For the patreon folks all the hybrids are out and they've been out for about a week I'll be adding those to the Non-patreon very soon. So we got those going on lots of good shit popping off Farm stuff too. If you checked out those fan lines, those are up right now for everyone. Well, not so it should be joining us anytime soon Except that I accepted it Guess we will see until then. I'll just keep staring at my own fucking head I There is What's up, you silly bastard? How you doing? I'm all right. I got allergies and my internet connection sucks today So I apologize ahead of time for Any bullshit? That's all good. I'm still getting over the sickness that I've been having mostly just in my chest and in my Sinuses still it's fucking bad though. Whatever whatever I got with my head. I Don't think I'm getting sick. I just think it's Mendo and springtime and things are blooming. Yeah, everything's out and about you know, yeah Yeah, it's about that time, isn't it it is here. It's good You know things are I mean event like what's funny is like a million years ago when I first came to, California To see the Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia band I came out here in spring, right? Yeah, and everything was green and Coming from Illinois where I'm from where it's flat as a pancake because of the glacier. It was I thought it was like Ireland Yeah, it was all like rolling hills and flowers and it was brutally cold where I lived and it was so nice here And I had no idea it got to like 110 and everything died in summer. Yeah You know, yeah, oh, I know oh, I know here it gets to be like 120 So yeah, you you you live in you live in the literal frying pan. Yeah, we live in hell. Yeah, you live in hell. So That's not my favorite part of California. What I know. I know dude. I know, you know, hot. I mean, I appreciate the desert But it's not it's not my spot. We burst Kevin McCarthy. Come on You did, you know if you like flat and dry and very very hot, you know Yeah warm nights and good people good fun. Yeah indeed So what what is our topic for tonight as far as education goes as far as education goes? I thought we would chat about a couple of things We would talk about maybe sort of like the very late 90s early 2000s period in the West Coast And because there's a whole bunch of stuff then that's pretty pertinent to now Yeah, it was all kind of going on and then I think we might talk about at some point Probably will fit in because it's been a big topic amongst us this week is a little bit of like authenticity Yeah, and how to you know, how to address that. Yeah, how do you address authenticity in these? Times where everybody's making money off something being authentic Well, yeah, you know people have their own their own motivations their own wants needs and desires Yeah, you know that type of stuff and so you know because Some cherry pie cush talk Cherry pie might be able to fit into that a little late. I've kind of avoided the whole cookie thing yet Yeah, it's probably a couple episodes on its own and it's pretty complex. So We probably will chat about that at some point, but it needs that one needs some fleshing out a bit Yeah, I would say yeah It's gonna be a deep one. Yeah, that's a deep one And there's a lot of people making a lot of money off it and there's a lot of rep on it So the more money and rep you have it kind of ties into the authenticity thing we were just talking about Yep, you start talking history and it interferes with anybody's money or rep and all of a sudden they're extremely upset Yeah, you know You know, I mean I made this I made this like joking post I don't post much anymore on IG, but I made this joking post. I saw this cartoon and it was like I Remember it differently in a way that fits my worldview and paints me in a positive light Yeah, that's for sure and you know relating to weed history like you run into that a lot Yeah, you know you you run into that a lot you know so Maybe we should I don't know what are we we're getting up to a hundred and fifty ish people here Yeah, we like to bullshit for a couple minutes and allow people to show up Yeah, you know yep and get to a certain point before we start chatting. So here's one here's one just What is the best blueberry not so dog? The best blueberry so this is another one that when I tell you what I think people will get upset at me. Yeah, yeah because you know if you talk to Second-generation genetics who is JD who's DJ son or DJ they will say the only legitimate place to get blueberry is them Yes Right Yeah, but the you know for some reason the blue bonnet seems to throw these days at least Some really potent blueberry Turks and it's not mine. I didn't make it. I don't get to take credit for it But I did use it sister to be transparent. Yes. I did use it. So I have my I mean I'll actually a tie into Well, I have my own blueberry line that I created before during the times in blue bonnet was being made and The Lone Star was kind of competition to me at the time and I was very egotistical about my blueberry of course because everybody thinks they have the best blueberry and I used it and it did pretty true for blue traits and very beautiful blue turps and very pretty But it didn't have any much potency or resin production to speak of and I think Lone Star did it better than I did I really do So yeah, what we're lucky is that it still exists. Yes, and you can still get it from a number of different sources. Yes Time so we're getting there. I think we're up to a decent time. So we're gonna start and These talks have kind of been we've we've been kind of moving forward We started in the beginning in the 90s a bit now. We're starting to move forward We actually still have like a third wave of seed banks that Matt and I want to do That we never actually dealt with that involves Canada and everything else But it starts to get a little bit more dispersed and difficult to get the accurate stuff So it's taken us kind of a while. Yeah, so there's a lot to it and there's a lot to cover You don't want to leave out a lot of stuff and you don't want to forget a lot of stuff and some stuff We do leave out and forget and have to go back and tag because it is So yeah, and that's kind of you know, that's kind of one of the things about these talks Is there a bunch of history? There's some there's some speculation. There's some bullshitting They're trying to be conversational and tell people about the memories that people have They you know, we'll talk about things but they get people bent under shape already So rather than talking about like the third wave of seed banks I thought we could chat more about like what was happening on the West Coast. Yeah, which is where Matt and I both live What was happening on the West Coast in that era and how specifically California and how that kind of like started to impact What came after? Yeah right, so Just to let everybody know In 1996 in November, they passed the 215 act the proposition 215 in California And that made it was the first state where you had medical Yeah, now, you know medical was Very restrictive at first and it was only about four or five conditions that it applied to And the cops had spent their whole career just busting anyone with weeds so they were also slow to change Yes, because they saw weed and they were like fuck you. It's weed. I'm arresting you And so people think that it like just became legal In 1997 Uh, it did not It started a slow process Right And the arrow we're going to talk about is sort of like The very beginning of when guerrilla started to end and that process started to really take place Yeah, you know, there was the very beginning of medical in california. So things were starting to open up People were starting to be less secretive Um, and as we mentioned on shows before I think it was 1999 That overgrowth started And not that long after the cannabis world started I don't know the years on when they started So, you know after a few years you had this network of people That were connecting via these via these, you know, these forums Yeah and chatting and stuff like that and so One that ended up happening is You know this this started a whole wave of different things this started a there was You know really the forums were the first time you could really ever trade outside your circle that you knew in person Yeah You know, right Yeah, I mean even even today I I still see people uh, you know in other states where they say, you know, I can't get that clone I live in this state and it kind of blows my mind because back then even like we didn't all live in like People were getting bubble clones from Ohio, you know that were in california, you know what I mean like You didn't necessarily go to the state to get it Yeah, and I mean, you know, one of the things that's interesting about that is that You know, there's there's different people for a lot of people Um, we have a good buddy of ours that lives back in the midwest that and You know for him the forums and ig and discord and stuff like that was a way for him to talk to other weed nerds Yeah Right, but for somebody like me who lives in Mendo like everyone around me does what I do Yeah, so there's no shortage of hanging out like I'm surrounded by people like me So there was some people that like were you know, really intent upon getting on there and that was their mode of communication Yeah, and some of us just lived in places and stayed off all that Yeah, you know, so like when you popped up or whatever it doesn't really like Correlate to like what you're up to we all lived in the shadows. Yeah, right So tying into that I'm uh, I'm probably in my I don't know what it is. I'm probably in my mid 20s Or so and I meet this guy and I don't think it's weird to say his name. His name was ron Yeah, no, right. Yeah. Yeah, and uh, Matt knows ron Very well very well. Yeah, and ron was ron's a character and he's still around And he did this thing where he started throwing these harvest parties in fall uh in In my area and he actually threw him he'd rent like a big ass fucking house in Sonoma County Uh, Healdsburg outskirts areas like that like a big mansion essentially Yeah, and he had like a catering company And so this thing would be you pay a certain amount of money and this thing would be catered And then all these heads would come Right. Yeah, and so it was the first time for me Uh, that I really was around like Um that kind of scene because most of those people that were there Like they knew each other from overgrower cannabis world Yeah, there was like groups that came with people like me and stuff like that that like were from that area as well But there was a lot of people from all over And if people are running who want ron is he's uh ncga Nortel growth grows association. A lot of people associate him with like the blue widow cut. That was one of his uh big jams Yeah, and he used to help people get set up. He's always been pretty politically active Yeah, you know, he's he's always been a lot of the fairs and a lot of various things that went on You know with he'd usually have a booth and he politically organized early Yeah, I I would say he got me my first uh emerald cup cannabis Cup or a camera cannabis booth. That was the first booth. I ever shared an emerald, uh cup was with was with ron Yeah, yeah Yeah, so I mean I I I went to this thing I don't know I was 23 24 25 something like that And um, I went with my friends I got invited by a buddy of mine And what was neat about it is you go to this place and you walk in they have like, you know huge dining room table or whatever And everyone that wanted to share you would write Your name which was usually like the handle Yeah from the forums or whatever you would write your name and you would put some weed in the bag Or the jar And so the whole table is full of different kinds of weed and hash samples Right. Yeah And then it's you know, and then it's one of those things where you hang out for two or three days and smoke a ton of weed And trade seeds with people and trade strains with people and shoot the shit. Yeah right, so I go there and i'm young And uh, I'm hoping to meet like I am like so convinced dude that That i'm gonna meet these old timers Yeah, uh, meaning my age now, but that's at the time, uh, you know, I uh, oh dirty old sog was there. Look at that um anyway, so I'm all convinced i'm gonna meet all these people and they're gonna They're i'm like it's gonna like unlock the key to a bunch of old school strains I want Yeah, right And I get there enough there wasn't some of that there But there was there was so much like everything that was super popular in the very early 2000s Right. It was like Apollo 11, Apollo 13 C99 You know white widow hybrids freaking uh ssa hybrids. Uh, yeah, he's the best times I ever had They were super cool parties. Yeah, it was it was really cool to to see I mean There's a bunch of people there who I won't mention because they don't want to be popular But I will tell you that's the first place that I ever met csi in person Yeah, uh, that's the first place that I met uh shaw Who some people probably know a 707 seed bank on ig Who did the you know the chem the chem dog bx2 and a bunch of work with cat piss Uh, yeah, a lot of people got bubble kush from him Yeah, you know, um, he's a he was a pretty big guy back then Yeah, he was pretty involved shaw Uh, you know, uh people like jason king from the canna bible kyle kushman jack harare You know just you know a bunch of mountain men from mendo and humble, you know, uh, you know And then various types of people like chip, uh, who now has a uh the real dirt podcast I think Yeah, yeah Yeah, but he was actually when at those parties that was before he started royal gold He was still working on like coco fiber then that was so long ago coco fiber wasn't even a commercial product available in stores yet He was planning on bringing it to uh Uh to america. Yeah, he hadn't started royal gold, but he was planning on it. Right. That's wild Yeah, and so and so a lot of us that was that was a lot of times where the where we got to put faces to names Yeah, you know like I didn't even know Uh Dirty I would have loved to have hung out and talked to dirty old saw. I didn't even know You know if I met if I know your real name. I don't know it. So hit me up, but But there was a bunch of people there. Yeah, and so like chip for instance who started royal gold um, he uh, he had just come back one of those years He had just come back from switzerland a tour in switzerland, right? Because for people that don't know Switzerland was like the first place in europe to really open up to cannabis Like outdoor and greenhouse style um, and so when amsterdam and holland got rough Uh shanti and and uh breeder steve and a number of different people shifted over to swiss Yeah, right and so chip had gone out and visited those guys Right and so he's got all these pictures on his computer of like these greenhouses full of neville's haze Yeah, like 10 foot tall plants direct planted in the ground So it was just uh, yeah vik high It was just really neat because it was a lot of it was a lot of connected people It was a lot of people that were active on the forums um, it was Five or six or seven years uh before the reversal era Yeah So everything was everything was reg seeds Yeah Everything there wasn't any any s1. I don't even think I'd heard the term s1 outside of a book Yeah I don't think so I doubt so everything yeah everything everything was hybrids You know and people would bring their hash bring their seeds bring their own personal breedings And it was like a way instead of mailing each other and giving out addresses and dms and all that it was like a super swap me right And so it was really neat in that regard because for one thing Ron had a catering business so part of the money that everybody pitched in He hired his whole team And you and he made two meals a day for three days That's wild. That's killing. So yeah, you got to sit there and roll joints and smoke and shoot the shit and pull tubes And trade seeds and then you're fucking starving Right and then like some like tuna on crisps comes by the thing, you know And you're like oh god, I want some of that and you're just so high and you just start eating some of that and drinking Now you feel a million times better um, and so The reason I bring that up is because while now with a lot of these events and a lot of these lives and a lot of a lot of times like Putting a face to a name has become common. Yeah, but back then it was uncommon Yeah, very So it was like really it was really it was really like unusual and neat. You felt special Yeah, you know and I mean there was uh, you know, there was times where I mean I went I went there I think yeah, the foods were to die for old. They were really good. They were fully catered Full on meals They'd have snacks and hors d'oeuvres that would be get brought around finger food and stuff. It was pretty decadent Yeah, you know and then just like anything else even if you're an experienced smoker You start smoking 8 10 15 kinds of weed. You don't normally smoke Yeah, and it's the first time you're smoking all of them Even a weak or moderate weed will get you pretty baked. Yeah, eventually if you're just pulling all day non-stop. Yeah Yeah, and and so, you know, there was different things where it was like you can't hang out with everyone Yeah, so, you know, you make friends some friends. I made there. Um, you know I kept up with really well Yeah, others like csi. I didn't catch up with again for a number of years after those Because you just you're in different directions people, you know, all that different types of stuff and um You know, uh eddy let just it was kind of just like a who's who Yeah, and a lot of a lot of the times those people fletched people that weren't very well known then Yeah, but now they're all hella well-known. Yeah You know and they have some of the best seed banks, you know, some of the best breeders around Some of the best collections of weed around Yeah, um, you know when I went there, I didn't have most of the stuff that I have now But I had I had the Maui and I had the the chem 91 and the super skunk and I had the super dog um, my uh My buddy who doesn't like to be mentioned, uh, you know, uh from statten island He came a couple years with us, you know Um, because we were still like right in the middle of doing that super dog project then So yeah, we had different phenos. We had the super skunk. We had different things We had hash that we had sifted from things and all that so It was just a really neat Gathering and time period Yeah, people keep asking like what happened, but I think I think we did a good job of recreating a little bit of that Just a few years ago. Um, a lot of people weren't invited You know because it was smaller But I think I think that there's still an ability for our community to pull together like that And have these big events where people just get a long chill and smoke weed Um, yeah, so it was a privilege because I wasn't around for for the wrong parties at all But it was a privilege to be a part of the the kanaluminati parties Those are it was fucking insane to be a fly on the wall at those events Yeah, I mean they keep they do keep happening Um, but I will say that like they probably won't happen like that quite again No, um, just for the simple fact that shit changes Yeah, you know, uh, nobody knew who CSI was then Nobody knew who Fletcher was then Nobody knew who I was that you know, I mean there was people that were known You know, but a lot of them were we were all in our 20s or whatever just trying to figure out You know various aspects of life Yeah, you know and we were all learning and trading from each other and seeing what was up And it was uh, you know, it was just days of and there also wasn't a bunch of money or rep involved Yeah, it was kind of like the last era before that era started Yeah, it was so we were all young innocent and dumb and you know and all that kind of stuff And less less of a competitive nature. Maybe yeah, we were all I mean honestly I came home with so many seeds from that event and I gave away You know thousands of seeds. Yeah for free Yeah, we just traded. Yeah Oh, you've got some sweet tooth by blockhead from steve You know, oh give me a hundred of those and I'll give you a hundred of this and of this and of this and of this Okay, cool. You know and it was like try it out Yeah, it hadn't been monetized yet. No one really believed that you could make a bunch of money in america selling seeds Yeah, I bet especially that era. It wasn't that didn't exist yet So it was like all of these heads each with their everybody was happy to like if you could get people you respected to grow your beans Oh, yeah, that was everything Man, that was like, you know, and then they hit me up and they were like, dude, I found fire in your weed Yeah, now you're like rocking around and you feel all good about yourself and fire You know and uh You know and uh, yeah in the forum era, uh, kaleb was white trash redneck or inspector Now he's csi Yeah, who's terpogs? I've never heard of her Oh my gosh So We're gonna bounce around because all those different things sort of interact. So just to kind of like put a Um, you know ron's parties were where a lot of us made friendships with each other um where a lot of us met for the first time it brought together different disparate groups of Uh weed heads. Yeah all from their 20s through their 40s, you know 50s Um, it went on for a number of years Uh, it you know, it happened in the in the in the falls. There was a lot of fire outdoor and I should also mention Because this is pretty important to that era where this is before the urkel And the and the purple craze really took off. Yeah, and so Um, that's really important because all good weed still got grown and was sold Yeah, there really hadn't been waves where it was like get this one cut Yeah, and this cut you can sell all of that that hadn't really happened yet Now I I attribute a lot of that to fucking jason king too for hyping cups up so fucking hard that era I mean, you know, it's it's it's hard. I I don't necessarily attribute it to him. I attribute it to the brokers Sure, because I can't I can't talk about other areas, but like in mendo Let's say in 0405 If you wanted to have a 50 lighter and you wanted to sell every gram of your weed you grew Yeah, and you had granddaddy purple or urkel or something along those are mendo perps it all went Yeah, if you had sweet tooth by louis Maybe not I mean, you probably could I'm not saying you couldn't yeah, but there wasn't buyers shooting up from the bay Like give me I got I got room for x amount find it Yeah, give me that sweet tooth. Yeah, you know, I mean but you know because all that all that work I should say that like so and we'll talk about that at some of these things but What were the all the popular things you can think of Were at that party both his flower and hybrids Yeah, and seeds so the white family was crossed into everything Uh, dj shorts the blueberry family was crossed into tons of stuff Uh, brother's grim was crossed into a different amount of stuff. Yeah You know and then you know a bunch of classics and things like that that was all around Big high was still doing big stuff federation was still doing big at that time Uh people I can answer that question. Someone just said where's jason king. He's on mali Uh, we'll we'll talk about that in a minute Um, because that was actually well that that'll overlap, but it really was It really was like, you know, you hear about the legendary harvest festivals that happened in Humboldt or Mendo small little gatherings and stuff Um, that's really what it felt like to me Yeah, it felt like being able to go to one of those type of things and Back then you really just talk shop and weed with your close group of hermit friends Yeah So getting to getting to go to like and hang out with dozens of different people for three or four days and chat and chat it up Uh really set the foundations and a lot of the a lot of the friendships and stuff For later. Yeah, it really made a big difference. I think Um, Frank, you know friendships were forged there transfers were made there, but you know ideas of things Yeah For a lot for a large part of it. And I think like when you started coming in heavy Like it was all a bunch of that stuff Yes, yeah, it was still very much around like when I first started coming in heavy I was looking for the blue widow clone. I was looking for this the the sweet thing clone. I was looking for all that shit Yeah, you're looking for all that and that was like that was everywhere I mean that was like what everybody had in clones what they had in flour and hash and seeds and all this different types of stuff Yeah, you know Kyle was there documenting it for high times, although I don't think ron let him actually made an article about it Yeah, because he wanted to keep it like on the down low and not fuck it up, you know Yeah, for sure. Um, but uh, but you know It was interesting and the reason why we're gonna kind of bounce around to all this different types of stuff is that all overlaps Yeah right, so Um, somebody asked about jason king. It's probably a good time to to chat about that a little bit. Sure. So at that time There was this guy's names jason king and he Had this idea that i'm gonna take a bunch of pictures of famous strains And then i'm gonna write my own super opinionated blurb about each one of these things Yeah And he called it the cannibal and i don't think anybody knew what he was doing at the time Would be would matter But what he did which is super cool is he came out with about three cannibibles Yeah, and they sort of document this whole like late 90s through early to mid 2000s era Right before the clone wars Where all these specific clones of kush, urkel, sour, all that started just dominating And a lot of these random hybrids started to becoming hard to find. Yeah right So he came out with this cannibal and i remember getting it and uh One of the coolest things about the first cannibal was that the entire first introduction Uh is written by one of my weed heroes Uh rob clark Yes, right and rob did rob did this thing where he wrote this big introduction into the cannibal which honestly I'm not sure anyone could have done that and given as much legitimacy to jason king Ron clark writing a big long seed history and clone history introduction Yeah, because like i've said before ron wrote the bible for seed breeding rob. Sorry rob rob ron Rob clark wrote the bible for seed breeding marijuana botany. He wrote his sheesh He's legendary. He's an encyclopedic knowledge. He's definitely like one of the elders of the whole marijuana thing Yeah, you know He's made lasting contributions to cannabis and so him writing that and what he did is he outlined Which strains which was a huge debate even back then Yeah, which strains went to amsterdam as clone only's And which strains went to amsterdam as seed lines Yeah, and a timeline of who gave what that was kind of brief, but who gave what over there Yeah, and then a timeline of like all these different seed companies and what years they release different versions of things Yeah, that was one of my favorite. They hit his chart on the uh release the seed companies It was the first time I'd heard of like lowland seeds and all that shit You know early per the pearl stuff is him someone's asking that yeah pearl is All the pearl stuff is related to rob and so So for a lot of us that you're trying to piece together all this shit Here's a guy in the know that knows all these various seed companies and breeders and work and all that And um, you know, he he outlines this thing. Yeah okay, so Uh, you know, so he so he comes out with this thing. He writes this big long thing Which is amazing. It's my favorite part of the book. No offense to the rest of the book Yeah, and then the rest of the book is a bunch of jason's opinionated comments on different pictures of weed He's taken and what he thinks about them. Yeah from all over right so I get this thing And uh, I'm super nerded out by it and I love it. Okay well, uh Flash a little bit and there was this gentleman who uh just passed away not that long ago But uh His name was eddy lep Okay, and eddy lep had a farm in upper lake, which is about 20 minutes from my house Um, and he grew a bunch of weed there. Yeah, okay And he really blew it up. He's he's one of the he's one of the best He was one of the early biggest flaunters of 215. Yeah, like I'm gonna follow the law come get me And so a lot of people That uh, a lot of people met there Yeah, right and so I met jason king Both there and I should should say at some of those early ron parties. Okay. Yeah, and we became good friends Right. Yeah, uh through you know through those connections through hanging out at ron's parties and then through Um, you know, he was he was a photographer and trying to document weed And everybody back then was fascinated that eddy lep was willing to fill a field full of cannabis and be like come get me Yeah, yeah You know, uh, and so you know and and and so I decided to help jason with his with his project Yeah, he wanted to make a second cannibal. Yeah, right and I'd lived in mendo at that point a number of years and Matt is you're well aware Weed was weed world was still insulated. Yes very much going to get a bunch of pictures Uh, you're not going to meet all the right people without an in yeah Yeah, it's still kind of that way for the old school guys though. You know what I mean like But nothing like it was hard to talk to but nothing like it was yeah before you couldn't even find how to contact an Old guy at least now they have like maybe an ig page or some some way you can track them down That's true when I first got into this I remember I tried tracking down dj short to to speak to him, you know No dice you had to find where he was going to be speaking and see him in person if you wanted to get a hold of it at that time So we'll we'll bounce we'll bounce around just so everybody knows I'm going to talk about eddy and that and that whole era because that's pretty cool But um, so these things will all overlap because they're all going on basically at the exact same time. Yeah Ron's parties Eddie's seen at an upper lake The stuff that I haven't talked to can of bible all this stuff is all like happening and and is part of the same flow same few years, right? so So I become friends with Jason and I decide to Help him with this project. Yeah, right Get him introductions to people let him meet other people that can help him kind of navigate through Humboldt and Mendo and document and all that type of stuff. So As a result of all that You know and I should say this is that I I was pretty good friends with Jason back then. I haven't We've drifted apart. He's lived on Maui now for a long time and I don't I don't go to Hawaii or haven't since I had kids So we've kind of drifted apart. We're still on good terms He's a super opinionated guy and he used to drive some people nuts Very true very true like there are people that will be like that guy drives me fucking nuts I always got a long well with them. Yeah, right and on top of that. I was very sympathetic to what he was trying to do Yeah, just another weed nerd trying to fucking put the pieces together. Yeah, I I strongly disagreed with him about certain things You know And all that you know and we would battle about you know all kinds of shit, you know But that's not that's not any different than today with people Um, but he was documenting and there's a lot of there's a lot of things in there You know like you talk about like the bull right? There's a lot of stuff Yeah that fell off the wayside that's documented. Yeah you know And uh, and so I started helping him figure out this different stuff right And and and you know and me and eddy and some other different folks Um started helping them put together the cannibalism. Yeah, right and by helping I just mean making introductions and and you know Can this dude with a camera come to your scene? Yeah Because that's kind of crazy, right? You got to have some trust. Yeah, and I bring a dude with a fucking camera Yeah, to your scene. Yeah You know, uh, and just so people get an idea. This is pretty funny Um, I remember uh jason got a 12 megapixel camera Yeah with a super nice lens on it to start taking pictures because the first cannibal was all film, right? That 12 megapixel camera with a super nice lens Was over 11 000 dollars that oh my god. I'm dead serious dude over 11 000 dollars because I was at his house He actually rented this house from eddy lep that was in lake county Not at eddy lep's property, but a separate home healed Yeah, like I said, I live 20 minutes in there for we were so we were together all the time and You know at like I like I said before about rock about ron's parties at the time I was growing the super skunk um The uh the the chem dog 91 Um, my family mendo perps Uh, the black the black domino the snow the trinity A bunch of the super dog crosses and hybrids um all that type of stuff and so You know I start helping them get all this stuff photographed And and documented and you know and it was pretty neat in that regard um because You know they um there's a lot of stuff that was like that's been lost Yeah, but there's a ton that's in those books But there's video but there's picture evidence and there's various aspects, right? and uh You know so, um if people are interested because of that close relationship, um, I had a bunch of stuff that ended up in that book um The the I grew the dog both I was in this process then of growing a bunch of my favorite strains completely organic And then full salt And then in the same room at the same time right next to each other and then doing a bunch of blind taste tests with me And my friends and trying to actually see Yeah, which is better Right, so I so there's there's uh the chem 91 is in there is both dog and chem dog Yeah, in both ways My mendo perps is in there the snow the trinity My super dog seven cut that I lost is in there, which is a hybrid between the Myself and the guy from statten island made this line. It's basically a super skunk chem dog line um the purple effects Yeah, uh, which is uh mendo perps crossed with fx, which is a cool story um Actually somebody said coral reef that's not mine, but uh our buddy fledge has been hunting for that for a super long fucking time Yeah, so if anybody knows where the coral reef is uh hit us up But anyway like that that um That super dog thing is is the odd connection that me and you have Where I spent years and years and years trying to figure out who made the fucking super dog By asking around the whole chem fam all that shit and at one point I couldn't get any fucking answers like half Half the people would say yes, it's jesus. It's the same thing. It's just another day, you know, we made it. Yeah, you know Yeah, it didn't turn out to be that way, but I remember before we met I remember in 2010 I made a super dog 2010 trying to recreate What I had read about in the can of bible because I could never fucking find it and many many years later when we finally Interacted I had realized you were the source of the super dog and that was really interesting because it was such a big Long chase for me because of that book I I remember I mean, I don't really want to tell the story of how I lost it all but Um, I I remember like I mean I had it at all those ron parties. I passed it out freely to a bunch of people um I gave a bunch of super dog hybrids uh to Mandelbrot And I ended up being a lot of the basis of a lot of his males That he started using to get started because even back then everyone had to use pollen Yeah, uh, not that everybody doesn't use pollen today, but everybody had to use like males Yeah, like full regular males reversals were Six seven eight years away. Yeah, then um, so uh, I didn't even we didn't even know The only reversals anyone ever heard of is accidental herms Yeah, that was reversals And sometimes if people wanted to make accidental herms They would torture their plant Realization Realization they would make it dry out. They would make it almost died. They would fuck with its life cycle They would just torture it and see Can I get it to pop a bunch of pollen? Right. Yeah So anyway, yeah, like I don't have like I lost the super dog. I lost the purple effects, but there's write-ups in that book of it Right, which is pretty neat because then there's there's at least pictures of it. Yeah That's how it got documented and why we we still know about it Yeah, and I should tell I should tell a funny story just because so uh, Jason had this girlfriend named Rebecca back then and um he uh, she was from north carolina and they had this strain that Is is semi-known right now called the mother ship Yeah, and it was this old-ass weird sativa And jason just raved and raved and raved about it. And so he got his girlfriend's friends to mail it to him In uh in lake county. Yeah, right? So you're thinking today, you know with all the mailing tech that people have You're thinking some like small and oculus package or whatever Yeah, so this this fucking thing shows up and it's a box That's about a foot a foot wide and a foot, you know this and two feet deep, right? Yeah, this is big fucking box You know and we open it up And inside are two mother ships with a bunch of with a bunch of stuffing around them in one gallon pots tied to steaks And they're like they're like 18 to 24 inches tall Yeah, so instead of the person mailing us cuts They mailed us like One gallon pots of dirt and 18 to 24 inch tall plants in the box. That's all there was you open the box and it's like two plants in there Yeah, that's wild, but it was so unusual. I think I don't think the post office was hip yet to like weed and like Especially plants in the mail sending big-ass plants in the mail. No probably. Yeah, and there's actually in that canna bible There's some uh, there's some pictures of that mother ship because I was one of the first people that grew it Because I actually had running grow rooms and there's pictures of the mother ship at eddy lep's property There's pictures of the mother ship from my greenhouses and stuff. It was a really unusual plant, but But yeah, it got mailed to us in the most sketch way imaginable I remember in canna bible If I think it was the mother ship that at one point jason king was trying to say this has to be related to hb 13 Because I've never tasted anything like this. That was one of those extreme speculations that he was uh, Yeah, I mean I should I should say I mean he's my friend and everything like that But you read the descriptions of like the dog and the chem dog and different things Yeah, and I even wrote down like lineage and history for him And then when he went to do his artistic interpretation of what he wanted to write you read it and you're like, oh, that's fucked Yeah, oh, well But that happens all the time people talk about all this journalist quoted me incorrectly or took me out of context or whatever else So but at least that's a documentation and it was there. Yeah you know And well, so one thing I'll say and then we'll move on and we'll talk a little bit about eddie's situation, right is that So we did that No, I'm gonna lose my train of thought but uh, jason decided to do a canna bible release party For the second canna bible and he decided to invite everyone that it contributed to the book with pictures right and everyone that helped him put together and who's who and um They uh, and he rented out this very this very magical place, which I don't know if most people have heard of There's this place called four springs in mendicino county And it's a natural hot springs Um, and you know, so it's got all these like cabins in the woods and stuff and all this beautiful redwood And it's right next to month, huh? No, I'm said yes, and it's it's right next to montgomery woods, which has some of the tallest trees in the world Right, I think three out of the five tallest redwoods are all In mendicino county right next to this this hot springs. Yeah, so it's pretty magical place, right So he does this thing where he throws this three-day canna bible release party Right and we all get to come and we all have our little rented cabins and whatnot The same thing like one of ron's parties essentially. It's a bunch of seed swapping and trading and all this different stuff and eddy lep's there and and rob park's there and and you know Caleb and like all just all the people I already mentioned A lot of the same people are there and a lot of people that contributed to the book eddy lep His whole entourage and all these folks, right? So I got to meet one of my heroes At the time who's that? I got to meet dj short Fuck it. Hey, that's one of mine that I got to meet two. What a coincidence Yeah, so And that was that was kind of intense because you know As we've mentioned on previous podcasts, you know, if you're a weed nerd on the forums You've got this is way pre cookie too, right? You've got all these Like, you know test grows and stuff on the forums of all these beautiful blue families hybrids Yeah, and blue and blue work and you're like holy fuck So, you know, I'm in my mid 20s or whatever and dj is significantly older And so you feel like you're meeting an elder Yeah, and we're just starting to fuck around, you know, my buddy from statin island and myself We've been breeding for a number of years at that point with our super dog and different things But we finally felt like we were just getting started and here's this guy that's like was released in europe in the 90s Yeah, worked with sag martha worked with dutch passion had canadian stuff had this whole movie and everybody back then Was kind of on his jock Yeah Wouldn't you say? Oh, yeah. Yeah, everybody I mean, he was kind of a famous guy then, you know, he's internet famous him hempy vik high Uh, you know, there was some really like famous Internet personalities on those early forums. Yeah. Yeah, there was DJ's work was one of them. He stood out Yes, I did. Yeah, and he was one of the first american breeders Since the breeders who first brought their stuff over to amsterdam like sam and rob and all those guys He was like the next wave of people that got famous Yeah, and there wasn't that much competition either. Yeah, people say hempy hempy was a fucking hempy had a lot of good points, but man, was he a tough character? He was a dickhead He was he was if you said something I mean a lot of those guys like tom hill and stuff If you said something ignorant, they just tear your fucking head off. Yeah, I can't even be putting that same category He made you stick as an idiot. I'm sorry. He I mean, you know, I had to deal with him too much So anyway, I um You know dj is at this at this can of bible release party, right? And he shows up at the time. I'm all excited, but to him it was probably like there was a bunch. I was a custody, right? Yeah So he shows up and he's got Manila little manila envelopes, you know With just, you know 50 and 100 of all his lines. Yeah, which I think back then was only four or five Yeah, it was only a few lines at a time that he would ever sell and they were just super expensive for for the time too Yeah, he had blueberry Um, and he had Huh flow and I blue velvet Yeah, and maybe the moonshine Yeah, blue moonshine or old-time moonshine one of them. Yeah blue. It was blue moonshine blueberry flow and blue velvet. Yep those four and so uh CSI and I gets a talking to him, you know and uh I have to say and he's still around and stuff and all that so he's going to be kind of irritated at me, but Um, it was my first experience with realizing that a lot of these old-time breeders Don't know that much Yeah, I mean I thought here. I am this guy's this guy's been doing it 15 20 years longer than me Yeah, you know, he's made all these amazing strains everybody's getting all these amazing hybrids out of them And he's releasing all these inbred lines and Who doesn't like the word juicy fruit tie or purple tie or yes or that so you're all fucking pumped And then you start talking to him and he's vague as fuck Yeah, it was yeah Like super vague Yeah, he's um, I think that is one thing that I have found with people that whose opinion I respect Everybody that has met DJ short including me has had the same experience except that he With me he just told me I don't own my own company and that was No, you know, I'm not gonna say that he wasn't he wasn't he was open and he talked for a long time And we talked for hours over multiple days Yeah, he's shooting a lot more talking together. He was super jovial and Conversational and all that so I don't want he wasn't he wasn't like we were talking about hempy. He wasn't a dick Yeah, yeah, you know, but but you know, I kind of feel like having being a weed nerd myself and talking to tons of breeders Um, if there's one thing you can do you can talk in detail about your own shit Yeah, you should be able to because it's your shit and it's like you're fucking a weed nerd and you're fucking into it And it's your passion. Yeah, it's your passion and you and you know, and you can just do that shit off of memory You don't need and he just kept saying stuff. Oh, I'd have to go back and look at my notes I'd have to check my notes and you know, I'd ask him like why didn't you know Did you ever did you ever back cross or did you ever use any of your original genetics again? Yeah, and he was like no, you know, he's like at the time He was like I still have thousands of seeds, but they're so old and I haven't stored them well I don't know if they pop. Yeah Right and so I just remember Like walking away from there and Just being like just I just thought I was gonna get a wealth of information Yeah And in the hours and hours that I talked to him, I don't I don't even know if I got too many tidbits Yeah, no You know, and then if you read his book Now it's gonna sound like I'm dissing him. It is a very very rudimentary way of growing inside It is yeah, definitely. Now the one thing I will say that I think is super cool about his book is he does describe a bunch of uh Weed that he smoked when he was younger That's my favorite part of the book And then he also does this thing where he has this I mean we didn't No one used the word terpenes back then but he tried to make like an olfactory chart Yeah, like a smells chart and break down what smells are related to what Yeah, how it was a really good chart and I it was a fantastic chart I highly recommend it still because anything that trains you to speak about things in language is helpful Yeah, yeah, so I mean he was talking about like squirrel cage fans and you know, I mean that's kind of like You know, he kind of grew in trailers in Oregon and And use that Use very 80s tech and never really advanced, right? um But be that as it may despite being very disappointed by talking to him about things I still bought like 400 450 of the seats Yeah, every line he had the velvet the moonshine the blueberry the flow I bought, you know I don't know 75 to 150 up. Yeah, right Um, and I and I I went home and I grew them all out Yeah, um, I think is the name of the book is like cultivating exceptional cannabis or something like that Yeah, that's it right off the top of my head something like that. It's got a really pretty flow plant or something on the cover Yeah, I think it's I think it's a flow, but some other people have said it's a blue satellite too like there's some some discrepancies on that as well Well, one of the things I mean when you interviewed uh chimera and red Yeah, you know, um, you know one of the things that chimera is good friends with dj So he's not going to say anything rude But what he did say is he kind of basically admitted that he thought that everything that he had was like the same line Yeah, and it was just different express like dj would see an expression within the line and he would be like, oh, this is its own thing It's blue velvet. Yeah, and if I just breed stuff with expressions like that, it's its own thing But that's not really what was going on either because he was crossing opposite to To opposite when he was doing line breeding working directional, which is what you don't do It was very artistic take on breeding for the time and he and in fairness like we said before I they were writing the book as they were going, you know, like these were guys just getting into can of breeding There was no books to be had, you know at the time when dj was doing this So mad props to him for fucking doing what he did. I I was able to Work at the bunch of his work that I'm stoked on. I'm not as stoked on his human work As far as breed human breeding, but other than that, you know, like as far as cannabis breeding I I owe a big debt of gratitude to him. I mean, I'm not but I just you know, it's one of those like he That's the conundrum, right? Is that is the illness you see all this amazing stuff You see how it all works you get it yourself and I grew out imagine people listening. I grew out 450 seeds over the next year Yeah and You know, I'd like to say I found a few keepers that I I miss Yeah, I didn't Yeah, I didn't I it it was unbelievably beautiful a lot of it Especially pre cookie. There was lavenders. There was blues. There was pink. There was purple There was various shades of in between It didn't have a lot of turps And it didn't have a very potent high most of it Yeah, for sure. Um, but when I out crossed it to different things I got way better weed Than anything of the pure lines I got from him. So you can imagine how fucking excited I am right because now there's no seed bank There's no middleman. It's like I'm getting handwritten manila envelopes from the guy Yeah, the real deal holy field Oh my god, am I am I gonna find the fire? Yeah, here it comes Right? Oh shit labeling backing everything up. I mean, you know how it goes When you're running hundreds of things and you want to keep track of it. What the fuck? Yep, you know, it's uh, it's a huge pain in the ass Yeah, I just recently did that. I mean people are talking about, you know, popping 450 seeds in the in the chat Not finding anything. I just recently popped almost the same amount of uh Stuff from from uh blue lines and uh went through all of it and had a very similar experience No, I I I will say something because there is something there is like a an economic aspect that we don't talk about right where back then Um, you know most fire indoor was you know four to 4500 Yeah, a pea. Yeah, so it was really easy to grow flower And have a side room or two with a couple of lights in each for experimentation Yeah, you know the the rate, you know a 12 lighter could was was everything you need in life if you wanted to be so Uh, the economics were really easy to allow people to experiment and fuck around Yeah, now things are super tight and it's gotten quite hard and mathematics and economics are much more difficult right in this particular period of time Yeah, um, but back then You know, it was like that's what kept the cropping from being boring I got a question for you. This is a good question. This is from the chat, but it's a good question and relevant Where did that swami guy come from? Was he around when you were hanging out? So I no No, no, no No That's weird to see swami I did I did not I mean he's a pretty recognizable character Yeah You know, yeah, you wouldn't even if you didn't become friends with them or whatever like you wouldn't have mistaken him No, I don't think so. No, and you know, we'll get we'll get to that I don't want to I don't want to break it up But we'll get to that um when we talk about the authenticity part in a little bit here Yeah, sure Um as as far as that goes because there's a bunch of people that one of the things about cannabis I'll talk about super briefly is that you can just sort of step out of the shadows Yeah, and then people are like, I don't believe where this person came from if I'm I'm I'm who I am I would have known it. Yeah You know, um, so You know, it's it's one of those things where There's a lot of shady characters in cannabis And there's a lot and there's a lot of people who make good and bad opinions about people on the internet that you have never met And you don't hang out with in real life. Yeah You know Matt and I are friends in real life. Yes You know, like we're real life friends. We've made we've made real love to each other So, uh, you know platonically from a distance, you know all that Um, but you know it it's different and you have a bunch of people who become fanboys or girls of different people And attack whoever they want to and stuff like that, you know, and it becomes difficult because they don't know their enemy And they don't know their friend. Yes Either they know like a a social media construct of that person Sure, which is not the same thing. No So but we'll get to that in a bit. So scrolling back you've got you've got ron's parties Right. Yeah, uh being sort of a nexus for this thing. You've got uh You've got the canna bible parties, which were another nexus bringing people together, you know Um, yeah, but I was I have to say I was super disappointed because I really feel like You know, if you take home 450 seeds from four different lines from a breeder and uh, you don't find anything You really think or want I want to keep, you know, yeah, that's super disappointing Yeah, that it is disappointing. That's a lot of money. It's a it's a lot of money. I mean, he gave me a good deal Don't get me wrong. It's not like I paid full custody because I'm at the no, you like to make money too But that yeah, but the the the size of the room the amount of just everything that goes into the economics are growing It's a lot of money. It's a lot of time And you know, like I talked before it was like, you know, there's there's eight or 10 American elites of nl five haze Yeah, I ran 60 70 nl five haze and didn't find any of those keepers Yeah, but other people did Yeah, you know So dj was a disappointment just in the sense that he comes from like a a different generation of weed nerd, I think Yeah, where they're just not that deep into detail Yeah, you know, I mean one thing you can say about rob clark or sam scump man It's whether or not you want to believe a bunch of what they say or not. They're heavy on detail Yeah, a lot of the old a lot of the old guys you talk to Um, you know, they're light on detail Yeah, they don't remember or they try to make it up. They did it Yeah, but they just don't like it's even the same thing with like the sour stories There are a lot of the stuff that happened in the 90s that we try to get to the bottom of Yeah, they didn't know it was going to be important I'm pretty sure dj thought he was always going to be important based on having met him I'm pretty sure he always believed he was going to be important. Like I said over that weekend I probably talked to him for five six hours seven hours. Yeah, we're there for three days. All we were doing was like Literally smoking weed and hanging out and shooting the shit eating food Dude, I would have loved to have had that opportunity with him. I just it just seemed so Not interested in discussing anything with me And it was it was it was hard because I did look up to him so much and it's not that I lost respect for him, but it's just like the more I learned about breeding Hands on the more I learned about Why his lines turned out the way they did and why I was having such a hard time Working those lines, you know, um, it all made sense in the end And I mean, you know, I don't I'm not dissing him because like you're fucking around in the 70s or 80s Or even in the 90s or whatever. It's like You learn as you go, you know, you bottle next something when it's early on and that's what you got You know, I I'm not dissing him by any means because there's a lot like I said, there's I think his lines are overly inbred Yeah, definitely over the inbred, but some of the most fire weed at those rom parties was outcrosses of blue of blue work Yeah So there's nothing wrong with having an inbred kind of unique to the cannabis scene line And it takes some outcrossing to really bring out its true character No, that's kind of what what breeders would want something very stable and worked, you know, I don't think that's a diss necessarily now Of course, do I wish that dj would have Repopulated his juicy tie and his purple tie and his original lines every four or five years and kept fresh seed Of the original things Yeah, sure, of course I do Do I wish he was interested in them and didn't just let them go to shit even though he had them Yeah Well, yeah, I do Um, but you know, I mean everybody looks back on when they were younger and was like boy, do I wish I did this Yeah, yeah, I mean who doesn't have those regrets about their 20s Yeah, I don't even remember what happened in my 20s. So right so it's fucked up, you know and So so that's happening Um, all these cannibal things are happening. They're all getting documented in that regard And eddie leps was another Place that was kind of like ron's parties or the cannibal parties where People overlapped a bunch Yeah, because people wanted to come out and see this guy is growing a thousand pounds in his front yard Yeah, holy shit. Yeah, he's a wild one now Now it's like it sucks because you know, uh, what happened to him is he ended up going to jail for 10 Him and his wife ended up going to jail for 10 years Yeah And you see gardens way bigger than his all over the place now. Yeah, and he didn't people should know this He didn't just go for it. Okay He did this crazy thing. This is probably worth mentioning where The law said you were allowed to have six plants and a 10 by 10 Yeah So he mapped out his farm in 10 by 10 grits And he collected Right Um, you know, he collected medical cards for each grid Yeah, and each medical card was tied to a specific grid Yeah, and you could give him Your strains to grow in that grid And he would do a certain amount of work like feed it and water it and this and that But like you could come out there and do your own de-leafing and your own Various aspect of different things like that. You could put in more work Yeah, if you wanted to and really make your 10 by 10 nice and then there was I don't need to get into that part Of it, but there was a split between him and you Yeah, you know, so honestly, it's like he didn't just like blow it up and go for it He literally had 10 by 10 plots with six plants per plot Yeah, tied to a medical card and he would just stack hundreds of them Yeah, he was just challenging the government to challenge their own Like little gray areas of the law is what he was doing pretty punk rock I might yeah, super punk rock super rebellious and he wanted to have eddy lep gardens all up and down the fucking the highway Yeah, he literally felt like most people wouldn't be able to grow their own But why couldn't you come bring your medical card to eddy lep's collective? Yeah, and grow your own fairly near your house where you could go tend to your plants on the weekend Yeah, you know and what happened to him was he He had this huge plot in his front yard. I'm not going to dig him out I got some posters from him a bunch of pictures and stuff, but it's too hard to show like on the thing But anyway, he And then the last year he had He decided to get seven acres across highway 20 from his house in upper lake and he was going to grow about 13 acres of cannabis Yeah, dead serious 32,000 plants. Yeah, that's a lot for the time. Yeah, uh 32,000 plants All documented Right, yeah all with all with and I begged him not to Yeah, because I was like dude. I don't think the dea. I don't think I don't think they'll let you get away with it Like I'm worried like they'll come down on they'll bring the hammer down You know Yeah, some photos of that are in the can of bible 100 percent. There's a whole thing on eddy in the can of bible Actually, yeah, um, you know and and there's definitely pictures throughout the can of bibles that are from eddy spot You probably won't recognize them if you hadn't been there, but anyway Um So I begged him not to do it some other friends begged him not to do it But there was other people that thought he'd be five and they were really pushing their boundaries Yeah, they were pushing it hard um And uh, you know, he got raided by the dea It cost him a lot with 32,000 plants, you know, and he he him and his wife got 10 year sentences Yeah, uh 10 year federal federal sentences and the shit the the shitty thing about federal sentences is that you have to serve 85 of the time it's not like the state where you can get off halfway for good behavior Yeah, and him and he was a vietnam vet and him and his wife were older. His wife passed away in prison sadly Yeah, um, and then he got out and uh You know the world had changed He went from being this like rebel maverick kind of center of attention Which to be honest he's he was kind of egotistical and yet, you know, he tried to form a cannabis church and Yeah You know he was fucking that's you know, there's a lot a lot of characters, right? So, um But he got out and the world had changed now. There's all these motherfuckers doing gardens his size Yeah, and it's all fine And you know, he gave up, you know, um, he gave up a lot for that Yeah, and he got hammered pretty fucking hard and there's people there. There's people that I mean, I'll mention a few people. I guess, you know, um One of the one of the Skittles crew that like that spun off into dying breed and now is his own person Shiloh Probably a bunch of people know Um, I was like the second person in Mendo that Shiloh met Yeah, um him and Dallas, uh, who's got enough, you know, who he works with now Um, they both were working at eddies Yeah, there was a bunch of people that became kind of well known later That were kind of eddies farm hands back then Yeah, you know and we're out because it was a big deal. It was a big mess It wasn't the most organized character either. So you can imagine You know He was definitely king of his hill and he spent a ton of time entertaining and being himself You know, uh, and then you're trying to grow thousands of pounds Yeah You know, uh, and uh, you know, and but we were all young then a lot of us hadn't none of us had Really made our names anywhere, you know It was all people that you know, it was just it was a smaller world Yeah You know for sure Um And so but eddie had a bunch of parties at his house. He had a bunch of gatherings at his house A bunch of people from spy rock and bell springs would come down because they were shocked that he could They did big shit up there, but they lived such a crazy lifestyle Um, they were shocked he could do it literally like you dry can still dry drive pie his house pretty often still You can see it from the highway Yeah, so he was his old house. Yeah his old house that he he lived at for a long time. Um, and that's the house That's in the can of bible You know, um, and and it was like a who's who of legalization guys, uh, I should I should say something else. Um, You know, uh, his last years, um Jack Herrera moved and got a house right down the street from eddie Yeah passed by that house too eddie, uh jack Herrera was at a bunch of those parties Um, I have some signed books by him and stuff like that. He was over there a bunch just hanging out, you know Yeah, um, you know, he had he had some health problem right there on the 20 Yep, he had some health problems and some strokes some stroke issues and stuff like that So some of his last years he was you know, he kind of had like, uh Um, you know sometimes some parts of your face don't work the greatest Yeah, but his mind was still there even though sometimes he struggled to get out certain things Yeah, um, but you know jack is another hero Yeah, he had a whole can of his cup made after him. He was you know, he wrote the book on the hemp possibilities Yep, um, you know, it was it was kind of a it was kind of a smaller world Yeah, but it was all those ronds parties The can of bible parties eddie lep's whole situation. This was all sort of like a norcal You know, uh emerald triangle lake county kind of thing that was going on Where a lot of people were fighting were starting to come off their hills and and and meet people You know, and it was pretty it was it was pretty integral to what came later. I think Yeah You know, it was a lot of us that are our middle age now when we're trying to pass down history We were looking up to people like eddie lep or rob Clark or tom hill Uh, who is a cantankerous old man? Uh Yeah Yeah, I mean he was a little nice. I'd love to get him on here, but we'll see we'll see he was a little He was a little nicer in person But man, uh, if he didn't know you and you said something dumb on the internet, you know Uh, he was going to he was going to uh eviscerate Of yeah, he would eviscerate you're at all your ego He would rip it out of your asshole and make you feel like the smallest little bitch in the world People are saying there's very weather might there's people saying oh, I might have met you back then not so it's very possible Yeah, you know that you met me Or I met you I mean there was a lot of comings and goings then even at those parties at ron's parties like Um, it's not like I got to meet and like made lasting relationships with everyone there Yeah, some of them were 20 minute conversations. Some of them were hours Yeah, some of them were in the tight circle of people I was hanging out with all weekend because that's how it worked Some of them were on the periphery. I mean, it's just kind of one of those things and none of us were none of us were Anything that yeah, we were all just a bunch of young weed nerds You know, yeah, tom was like, yeah, I agreed dirty old tom tom was super nice to me But you read some of this stuff when people ask them dumb questions online and holy fuck Yeah, right Yeah, I mean he's he was highly intelligent. Some people don't suffer no fools No, he was highly intelligent and he didn't have a lot of patience Yeah, I I yeah, I can I can definitely relate to to that sometimes Yeah, I mean, but you you see that you see that even now like you get so burnt out By dealing with people, you know, um, I think the same thing happened to to sam scumman To some degree. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, uh, he was probably nicer and more chill And then you get you have to answer the same 50 questions a billion times and you get accused of all this shit And all of a sudden you're a cant cantankerous old man Yeah, it's very easy to fall in that category You know, but those guys were all legends all heroes to us vic tom hill hempy You know, uh, these were all like leaders of the scene, you know Um, and and old timers to us. Yeah, you know, tom's gotta be I mean tom's gotta be 20 years older than me I don't know maybe maybe I don't maybe fifties You think he's only in his fifties. Yeah, I think I think you're pretty old actually I think you're probably older than him. You're in your 60 Yeah, you know, it's all the oil of olé. Yeah, you know keeps keeps me young or whatever, but the reason why i'm babbling about all this shit is It's where a lot of people because there was essentially like there was essentially like What's the best way to put it maybe the best way to put it is that In the 90s most weed scenes were Very isolated to themselves. Yeah to very small circles. It was very risky. It was illegal everywhere No one was really chatting The grateful dead dead tour fish tour that kind of thing There was some overlapping things because people would meet And not be as scared because nobody knew where anybody else lived Yeah No, I'm not dude. I'm 45. Matt's joking. Now he's 60. He's lying. I'm for I'm 45. No I'm definitely not 60. Definitely not You know, but But you know, I mean, I'll say the same thing too because I just saw My buddy who I was talking to earlier today skunk the skunk the a's on the thing, right? I go to Ron's party and I am so hoping to meet All these legendary people and strains and shit and I'm like just hoping to get hooked up You know and not to be a dick But like I felt like I had the chem dog and I had the super skunk and I had the mendo I felt like I had the best weed there. Yeah, I was like I had weed that tore people's head off Yeah, you know and and uh You know, that's not to be bragging or anything like that because it was literally just the luck of the draw and the luck of my friends Yeah you know, um And uh and dead tour, you know was one of those things where It was it was sort of like a huge weed emporium Yeah, and it made a lot of these connections And it made a lot of these things that I tied in and the whole reason I came out to mendicino county Um was because I had a buddy who lived in ukaya, which is in the heart of mendou Um who after 2 15 passed was like dude get the fuck out here. Why are you living in chicago? Yeah, so it was literally connections from dead tour that like brought me out here, right? so getting back to what I was saying is that in northern california and in dead shows There was a weed scene And on the forums it developed a weed scene And in the emerald triangle, there was kind of a weed scene, right? And then these parties and these events and stuff was sort of like the first mixers Yeah, they were the first places where these scenes started to like overlap Where the forum scene and the mendou and humboldt scenes and the grateful dead scenes and all these different groups that have ties to different circles They start like a bend diagram. They the circles start crossing Yeah, and I honestly think that's set up kind of everything for the american weed scene for later I think so I really do like none of us knew it at the time No by any means it wasn't like we're like, oh we're here for history, you know It was just it but it did it was it was the merging of things I mean, I should say even back then this was a few years after ron's parties, but like, um You know, I mentioned the purple effects that's in the uh, that's in the canna bible Maybe I should talk about that for a second because people might be interested in that Um, the purple the purple part of purple effects is just mendou perks, right? Yes And the effects was this old garlic bud strain that I got from Uh, the head grower who worked for tim blake Yeah, now tim blake now is very famous because he's the founder of emerald cup But back then he was just a big Uh guerrilla outdoor indoor, uh farmer Yeah, and his his main worker was about my age. They are the purple effects And they gave me the effects which was a super golden gorgeous frosty terpy thing, right? Yeah and uh You know, there wasn't any reversals, but how the purple effects got made um In the canna bible is that I had a system that got a little stressed because I had an air conditioner issue And it took me a few days to get fixed And you know as as csi will tell you you stress the mendou perps and the fucker will harm Yeah, right So the mendou perps hermed all over the effects that was right next to it And me and a buddy got about a thousand seats Jesus 800 to a thousand. I mean I was at the time we were hella pissed and The reason we got that many was because we had like these six or seven You know quarter pound six ounce, you know effects plants all around it That we couldn't sell. Yeah, they were chock full of fucking seed But we cracked this thing and it ends up being super terpy um You know and all that and it ended up in the canna bible was gorgeous weed Um, and you know, I should say that there's been some battles amongst the crew. We'll talk about that too, but Um, some of that weed exists still I don't have it. I lost it in a bus, but some of that weed exists still and it's in Um, it's in the rosé It's in the sprite Um, it got passed around it at some of tim blake's early And you know people should know that tim blake had this spot called area 101 in north of latinville, right? Yeah, and he threw a bunch of weed events up there and he threw um a bunch of like Essentially like weird raves and different kinds of like musical gatherings and and all that kind of stuff And it was kind of like a scene And you know the first half a dozen emerald cups Yeah, we're all super local events held there Yeah, um, and so I passed out a bunch of seed there was a gentleman that used to work up there and used to work at Reggae a bunch called fuzzy um, that's not his real name, but that's his nickname and uh You know and all that and stuff and so, you know, he ended up getting the purple effects for me and and that's who the You know, Tony Mendo and those guys got it from Yeah, and it got blended into skittles and it got got all these different things, you know, and it it lives today Yeah, you know, uh, but that was a total that was before fems. That was literally an unintentional Fuck up, uh, we're in summertime the ac went out for two days Yeah, and you know got hot and then I put a new ac in and everything was good and then the mendo pea just threw through pollen Yeah, and I had and I had a feminized cross Um, people are asking what about california black rosé as far as I know, it's the same thing same thing So what happened to them is like a lot of cannabis terms Uh rosé is trademarked Yep, rosé is a very specific kind of wine And there's also another C company that has a totally different line called rosé as well relentless and that's not related to I don't think It's related to the same dime group one, but don't quote me now that I think about I don't know So they had to change it, uh, because they got because as you as you get legal And you start entering these things and stuff you start getting sued Yeah, you know girl scout cookies and thin mint is cookies because they got fucking sued by the girl scouts Yeah, you know the reason why skittles has z's Yeah, you know is they're trying to skate around these these trademark laws, right? So Rosé is russian og Crossed with skittles. That's the z Crossed the purple effects. That's the e And it took second place. I don't know three four years ago or whatever at the emerald cup So what I got out of them and this this one's been I think I have a screenshot of it There was russian kush os kush effects cross baptist gittles is the claim. Yeah something like yeah Yeah, it's something close to that but they had the the seeds that they had were purple effect seeds from from fuzzy that was from me Yeah, because back then it was like there wasn't any I mean in this same time frame um, I should say this too, but you know, uh, my buddy from uh me and uh Skunk vie's old friend who um with the kems and stuff We were working on these super dog projects together and crossing them to all kinds of different hybrids and and clone only as we had um, and my buddy mambo brought Uh at the time who wasn't into seeds or breeding wanted to get started with weed And I ended up giving him a bunch of seeds and a bunch and some clones to get him started on this project And he ended up becoming pretty well known Um, some of the stuff he got famous for was based off that work Some of it was a little different from different things Yeah, um, but the the the reason I brought that up isn't to like lay claim It's to say that back then we were very free with trading things Yeah, because no one ever thought that they could come out of the woodwork and lay claim to anything. Yeah Yeah, right. Yeah, that wasn't a worry Now it's all like fuck you you can't breed with my cut my cut. That's mine. That's my seed line I want matt knows this more than me because Um, I I've avoided so far a lot of the weed politics by giving away a bunch of seeds for free And when you sell seeds like matt, uh, you end up getting, you know I want half the seeds because you use my cut in this one cross I want rep. I want you to mention me. I want you to give me money Uh, it's my shit. You don't have permission jobs. I so many blowjobs. I've had to give just because of seeds It's not fair Not fair. Yeah, it's not, you know, I mean do what you love do what you love. So it's what I'm gonna add So yeah, I mean, so there you know, there's an aspect of politics, but this was before that politics Yeah, people just swap seeds people just swapped You know people just swapped cuttings people swapped, you know, all this different stuff It wasn't like, you know, you didn't want your name attached to weed Yeah, because then they'd fucking find you what the fuck is that? Yeah, it's ridiculous You know, you'd be you'd get you'd get in fucking you get you'd get in trouble Yeah, right. You don't want anything named after you. What the fuck is crazy, you know And then and now now it's come full circle. It's 180 degrees and now it's like Someone's like I didn't breed this cut, but I did make it famous So therefore if you're making any money off it, you must give me money The rule of the map And it's and yeah, and it's it's in my terms Yeah, you know, I want seeds. I want money. I want rep I want all three and all all this different stuff, but it's just like those things I mean, it's even like, you know, people were asking way earlier on the thing that I have decided just closure for dj Yeah, dj came up with all that all that this is my shit. You can't do anything with it way fucking later Yeah, yeah At the time there was no at the time there was no I mean people should give credit, you know, I mean I just saw Homie mentioned that people should give credit. You should say that I got this from this person, you know, you also should If you've got a cut from somebody You should give it back to them if they lose it That's really good etiquette. You know, um, I've had multiple things that I've lost And I've tried to get back from people. I I mentioned the purple effects. That's one of them. It exists I can't get it back without trading other things for it Yeah, which I think is a super shady and a breach of the code At least the code when I came up Um, you're definitely supposed to do that. There's some honor. I mean half the reason people trade things is so you don't lose things Yeah, because angry girlfriend angry boyfriend bust fire landlord moving accident Whatever, you know, all all those different types of things. Um You know, you trade things back amongst people, you know, I mean one of the reasons You know, I'll say this because he's because he's listening or whatever But I mean one of the reasons why the chem 91 didn't get lost Yeah, was because there was a tight group of uh, you know, four or five of us myself Uh scum the a I see collective my buddy from Staten Island who all had it and all lived in dorkow And you know, we all kept it alive You know, people sometimes people got in trouble some people had to move sometimes you had to get it back from somebody or whatever And it was like we were all heavily invested in making sure these things lived You know, yeah, I mean, that's that's why a lot of these cuts are still in our group, you know, like in our tight circle because You know, we all move around. We all fucking. Yeah, you know, he said he's just saying I'll I'll just say I'll just say this Uh, and I gotta keep thinking because I'm I keep wanting to say his name, but it's gonna be yeah I like I have a hard time bullshitting at pace and reading comments at the same time Um, yeah, I mean he did, you know, he you know, um, you know, there were some people that lost it I mean my whole name, you know, he just said that I had to give I see back the cut like five times My whole name not so dog is because our buddy from Staten Island drove up to see I see collective And got a bag of dog and brought it back and it wasn't the dog because Dude was dude, dude used to party and he got mixed up and mixed up his clones and he grew a whole room Of chem dog and it was like Romulan or something like that You know, it really was Um, we had to get it to him back because he was like, what do you mean? It's not it. It has to be You know, and I'm like, no dude, it's not so dog. It's not it. We had to call him up And homie was all excited. He's like, I've never seen it look like this, you know And I was like the reason why he's ever need I I had stuck my head in the bag because I was in the bag I was in the car with Staten Island. I told her before and I looked up and I'm like, this is not so dog It's not dog. I don't know you're talking about you're tripping you know, and Why he talked to you know, I mean That's crazy. That's good because you know, they used to be Yeah, they used to be best friends and I'm not, you know, there's and that I should there's aspects to stories I always leave out because they're personal and I don't think they're super pertinent Yeah, I'm just stoked for us because I want to get both those motherfuckers on here at the same time with you It would be great. It would be cool to get homie to get to come talk because a lot of the story People should know and the people are like, oh Not so it wasn't there this that whatever else a lot of the stories I have Um, you know come from Staten Island or come from skunk VA Talking to them 20 plus years ago Yeah, before the forums before the fame before he got on and got his handle skunk VA You know before the cut was getting traded when it was just our little crew that had it Yeah, you know, honestly like they don't come from me They come from my memory of like what I remember about sitting around shooting the shit and growing weed and and doing shit together Yeah, you know, um, it would be it would be a really neat Uh thing to do Both to bridge that gap between the two of them and get him to talk back and forth, you know Yeah, um, and you know, we've been trying to get dude on here for a long time actually I'm trying to get skunk VA too. He's just so shy. He's kind of he's kind of he's kind of prickly But I mean I him and I were him and I were you know me and um And him and and skunk VA. We've all known each other a long time Yeah, really a long time way back. And so, you know, it's certain a point, you know, you bury the hatchet about different things Um, it's hard, you know, it's hard. It's it's hard being in weed and having all these like interpersonal You know, you mix business and friendship Yep, you know and people have different memories about shit Yeah, you know and all that so, uh, you know, it uh, but yeah, it's good. I I spoke to uh, Right before the show actually, um Uh skunk VA and I were talking about chatting back and forth a bunch via text about some stuff and We have a ray of hope On something that we maybe thought was long lost. So If if it's if it so develops, I'll report back Um, but that's what that's what we try to do. It's like old friends trying to look out for one another Yeah, you only make it through this world You know, the people are much more important at the end at the end of the day than the money or the fame or the bullshit Yeah, I'm I'm big into people You know, I need enough money to survive, you know, but uh, I'm big into people Yeah, you know, so Um, it's I like to see my friends doing good I like to see and we've all you know, all of us are like semi-autistic weed nerds in some way or whatever, you know and like you it's odd You know living alone or living by your you know living amongst, uh, you know small groups of people And living weed and taking a bunch of risks and staying secret for a long time. Like me showing my face is fucking nuts Yeah, you know and now I show it weekly Yeah you know and You know, so I just I just thought it would be it would be cool because this era is like right before kind of mat came into things Yeah, which is like I apologize because I keep trying to get uh shows done where I make it like more mat's era than mine Um because my area is like smaller They had an era there's an era where like, you know, I was having a bunch of kids and had some issues or whatever and And that was super engaged Uh when I was a little less engaged but so far, you know, I'm gonna drag him kicking and screaming into his era Where it's mostly him talking and me shutting up, but he keeps making us do these things where it's it's a little older Stuff Yeah, I think I think it's a lot too because I've been you know doing the live feed for a long time and I think for This many years. I think people are more excited to hear from someone else for a bit And I I'm excited to hear like from an era I wasn't a part of and I think nobody gives a fuck to hear what I have to say about something I wasn't a part of and I don't either so I think it's it's it's not just about why you go on this thing I think it's good to to get all aspects of history on here And you know, there's a thing too where it's like, I mean, we didn't know back in the day That the chem dog was going to become super famous Uh, it stayed alive Um, because our buddy from Staten Island used to take it to Like you could meet him outside of any Jerry show outside the Warfield and probably buy a $400 ounce Yeah, you know, um, you know all that you could uh, you know Um, when when Jerry Garcia died, you know, um, and he decided just and and you know skunk VA came back to California You know, he got cuts from homie and he started he started growing because all of a sudden he was settled down He wasn't traveling and seeing shows and stuff and that's where some of his polaroids come from of that old skunk cut You know and you know small group of us were growing the dog and we were always we called it You know no one called the chem 91 and all that that's all like later. We all called it the dog Yeah, and you know Uh skunk VA and our buddy from Staten Island. They mostly grew organic Um, so they didn't want to call their weed chem Yeah, and we're gonna call it the chem dog I think that picture I think that picture of the super skunk for me at least And what I'm interested in is one of the most important pictures that anybody could have kept that and some of the josh do g pictures Um, yeah, those are specifically the sour picture and or pictures of sour pictures of the old super skunks Super fucking important for solving that weird mystery of like was this super skunk cut the same as the original super skunk cut That is hard to that was hard to figure out. Yeah, and that helped a lot I mean, there's a thing too like part of the you know, we don't need to go over it again Um, but we'll talk about it just really briefly. We're talking about like ron's parties and these and the triangle and the dead scene and all that I mean the whole reason that the france scene Um got taken out east and you know the super skunk came west and all that stuff was all because of jerry shows Yeah, that our friend and and skunk VA were at And friends of his from back east and smoking weed together at the show And then people wanting that stuff and so I don't need to you know, I wasn't there I don't need to tell that part. It's you know, that's that's he's told that story pretty eloquently and stuff like that But it is it is showing how those circles overlapped Yeah, you know and one led to the other and stuff like that, you know, and so Huh, let's lock in skunk VA for next week next Friday. He's got the alveon and he will be happy to to be performing Thank you skunk VA. I don't know if he said I don't know if he's we locked him in but if we did I'm we're gonna Chat again this weekend. I have a I have a line on something I thought was long lost That's dear to both of our hearts So I'm trying my damnedest to make sure I can get it back to all of us Yeah, we'll see, you know, and I do believe I'm not particularly Superstitious Yeah, but I do believe in it in the energy of the plant and I do believe in the universe a bit like making things come to you And I can say for everyone out there For me at least the number one way that you get the cuts that you want and you get the things that you want in cannabis Is by treating the plant the right way and having the right intentions Yeah That's what I say because that that's going to a long term. That's going to get the right people to trust you Yeah, and that's going to lead to what you want and I do believe the plant has an energy And I do believe the plant wants the uh wants to um, you know Wants to find people that'll keep it safe I agree. I really do. I don't know there's not I can't prove it obviously But I believe that there's collectors out there and the plant hides Yeah in places where it's hoping that someone cares about it and isn't just monetarily attached to it Yeah, but loves it You know and a lot of the things that I have Um, I wouldn't have because I would have gotten rid of them as soon as they were unpopular Yeah But I personally liked them and cared about them And then there's friends of mine that feel the same way and that's why they have their shit You know, yeah, and so it's it's general On our friends. Yeah, it's a theme, you know, and if you get it's like you get trusted in circles and the You know, maybe we can go into this. There's an aspect of like authenticity Yeah, we were going to talk about before right because we are kind of getting an hour and a half into it So maybe we can talk a little bit about this and there's there's aspects of things where Now that I'm being public, okay, and I'm starting to tell some of these stories Um, I should say that there's a lot of things that maybe like five or ten percent of the weed community knows pretty well Yeah, um that becomes difficult where how do you let the other 90 percent know? Yeah So there's a lot of like accepted facts among small groups of people that want to trade this kind of information Right, and then you want to get it out there and you get fucking attacked Yeah, and so, you know, mac can attest that he tried to get me to do this for a long ass time and I wouldn't Yeah Right, I mean, I mean you were just watching what happened to me and you're like fuck that I don't want that my life I mean, I did I did Caleb's event up in uh, Up in that's right. Yeah, you know, and it was like I showed my face. I was in front of a huge crowd Yeah, you know of people and I was just like, oh my god, you know, I mean I didn't give my real name But it's still at the time it was difficult Yeah, but what it what it comes down to is that if What convinced me to do it Is is like if you don't try to get some version of the truth out there Or what you believe to be the truth Then it's just going to be overwhelmed by bullshit Yeah, right and there's an aspect where it's like and I really get upset about it sometimes Where there's this ig thing where people pile on each other Yeah, okay, and you know matt's a villain on ig Yes, I want to be to a lot of but to a lot of people that don't know him in real life Yeah, you know and if we want to fast forward a bit before covid um Matt and I There was other friends that helped and stuff like that So I'm not trying to just to diss anyone. I'm not mentioning but matt and I and a few other friends kind of like Got this idea to throw what we called like the canna luminati party Yeah, and it was sort of kind of based on ron's old parties and some of those old gatherings But more modern. Yeah, and we decided to do it the same weekend as emerald cup you know because um Everybody would be in town Yeah, so we rented a huge house And invited a bunch of people over on friday and saturday night of emerald cup And both years, you know, we had hundreds of people come through the house Yeah, right and believe it or not nobody punched matt No, what do you know nobody attacked matt? There's a lot of people that you that you don't imagine that like respect him a whole bunch Yeah, I don't know about that, but they didn't punch me. Yeah, you know, you have a lot a lot of friends You know, there's a lot of friends you get a bunch of Collectors and breeders and weed nerds and people in the industry that come through and want to hang out with each other And you gotta realize that like we were trying to throw an event where it's like those guys spend all day at their fucking booth Talking to customers and trying to give their customers a little bit of one-on-one time Yeah, right and then at the at night time, you know, they get to come out and hang with a bunch of people just like them Yeah, and trade weed amongst people just like them and shoot the shit and you know Trade cuts and talk about bullshit and do all this various shit, you know Yeah, and so we really had a good time those couple of years before kovat fucked it all up Yeah, that was fun, dude. Yeah, we had you know, we had a lot of people We had you know csi and bodi and kind of I mean you could go there was hundreds of people Yeah, a who's who not everybody but a lot of people, you know, some people are busy or burned out or whatever, you know Yeah, and so we were trying to recreate some of those like more innocent time parties Yeah And you know and you know and I brought tons of weed And various friends brought tons of weed and we just have like a huge table Full of jars that were labeled and anybody could freely smoke Whatever they wanted And even even like just like the forums there was a bunch of friends I made on ig that some of the first time they smoked the headband some of the first time they smoked the real kim di Some of the first time they smoked this different stuff Was at these parties They might hear you talk about it, but they don't actually see your weed Yeah You know and then they get a chance to do it and then you get to share a bunch of your weed with friends And you get to do all these different kinds of things, you know and so that part is really neat because That kind of I wish you went to dude. We're gonna have another one after covid You know, yeah There's uh, you know, it's it's just like a who's who of people that have been around for a long time and you would not believe How little beef there is Yeah, there was none in person. I don't remember any there wasn't any beef It was just a bunch of friends It was smoking out eating a bunch of food having a great time You know trading beans trading cuts making connections putting faces to names, right? Yeah All that different types of stuff right and so You have an aspect where We've had some issues this week where, you know, you start having these talks week by week And like I said, Matt's a bit of a villain online And because now i'm coming out and we haven't even hit some of the controversial topics yet But as i'm coming out and talking about stuff Um, you start getting enemies Hmm You start getting people that are annoyed that people are listening to you or they don't believe your version of events Or you know on iG or on various discords They want to like disparage your character and say you weren't around and say That you didn't have anything or your weed was shit or your seeds suck or whatever And honestly like it becomes really hard because a lot of people that are listening You don't know the person you're siding with and you don't know the person that you're against in real life Yeah Like an unhonest real life Yeah, no You know, so it becomes hard. How do you choose? You know, how do you make stuff happen? I mean, there was people that were accusing me this week of not even see the chems until oh wait You know and and then I came out of nowhere and then all my stories are lies and not so it just means the stories are not so and let's let's be fair though like The the people that were doing this were people that were in the outer circle of our friend group and never made it Quite on the in-circle because they were they were bad people and they fucked people over or they did certain things People have an axe to grab Yeah, you know and that's my point, right? So Matt'll come out and say this person's a scammer. He's stealing cuts He's trying to fuck you over. He's trying to take your money Yeah, and then that person and like and and some bots and like a bunch of fake accounts and a bunch of people that bought Seeds all attack Matt. Yeah, you know, he's a faggot. He's a jew. He's fat. He's this he I got He's a not yeah Jewish Nazi all these various things start getting attacked And so as I become a public figure a little bit like they start attacking Oh, is that that party as weed sucks this and that everything else and it's fine people to throw barbs. It's part of it Yeah, right and I'm not even saying you should trust me But what I am saying is that you know weed has a lot of people lived in the shadows Yeah, and it's not documented and the reason why we're doing a bunch of these stories Is because we want to get oral history out there and we want to do it in a conversational fashion That doesn't bore you to death Yeah And we try to do that and then that steps on toes and then people are furious And so they they they can't fuck with the story Right, um, but so they'll fuck with Matt or they'll fuck with me or they'll say you're a liar or they say Oh, I know for a fact. He didn't touch him until after 08 Or he didn't have this or his this his headband is watered down or whatever they want to say about matt It's just the 707. Yeah, just just some bullshit and it's like You know and it's like you don't want to spend all your life fucking like refuting a bunch of bullshit You know because it's like everybody that knows me knows me Yeah You know and matt and vice versa, you know, and so we're trying to get truth out there We're trying to to get truth that like we're not making any money off of You know, a lot of these a lot of these podcasts are like weed infomercials Here's three hours of why you should buy my seats Yeah Let's talk extensively about you and why you're great and why you're integral to the story and why you're a cannabis historian And why you're so amazing and this is going to help you make money Shit, I should have been inserting myself into all this old shit. God damn it So, you know, and it's like you do need, you know, we do plug for two or three minutes some stuff that matt's doing or You know csi or different people at times because there is a financial element to like making all these different types of stuff work Right to some degree But really what it is is that now that i'm old and i'm in my mid 40s or whatever In the 60s, there might be people that are 23 that want to hear Yeah, or might be 40 and want to hear the real truth and then eventually you just have to decide because there are some real scumbags Yeah, they just come out and insert themselves and then rely on if you speak up I'll blow up your fucking life. And is it really worth it? Yeah, I'll attack and attack and attack and attack and I'll fuck you over and I'll make your life miserable for weeks Yeah, so shut the fuck up about what you all know Yeah, and there's so much of that Honestly and coming from so many fucking angles Like it is a headache and it's rife for sociopaths. It's rife for shade balls beans have always been shady And they're not getting any less shady Yeah You know, they're just not yeah, you know, no, there's no way but there's but there's a bunch of us You know who had been around long enough You know, I mean there's this running. I'm not gonna call call them out or whatever, but Like I don't even it was like a super long time ago and like me and skunk the a we're talking about Whether or not we were gonna go to these like dead shows in the city Right and he's telling me he's like man because he was he's he's a little older than me And he was on tour for longer than I was so he has more connections than I do to be perfectly frank because He's about six or seven years older than me. Um, yeah You know, he was like dude we could go but he's like then I'm gonna see this guy I know he doesn't pay his child support And I'm gonna see this guy and he owes my friend 15 grand and I'm gonna see this other guy and he And you know these people's back stories and then it's like you're gonna see some people you're like so stoked on Yeah, and then you're gonna see some other people and you're just gonna be like, man Why can't you be cooler? We were friends Yeah, and you're kind of a shit bag Yeah, pay your kids You know, yeah pay your child support pay my buddy back you ripped him off when you were down and out You know, yeah, and that goes on in weed world Yes, and then uh, what city san francisco at the time at the time both Him and I lived in northern california. He lived in senoma. I lived in mendo So we were we were thinking about going down to sf and catching some shows at mountain view or something Um, you know, and that's the thing is like a lot of times I'll talk about things in like a general sense Um because you start calling out individual people and then the next week of my life is fucking That asshole trying to defend themselves Yes, and you know and blowing themselves up And me and homie matt and I and me and skung deer. We know a lot of history Yeah, not all of it is not all of it is is beneficial to the people No, unfortunately, you know, but then you can't you know, it doesn't pay to spend your whole life trying to warn the fan unity About no jack off because it's whack-a-mole Yeah, I tried that I really did and it just it did not pay off. It was it was detrimental to my career I will say I don't recommend people do that for Any reason whatsoever if you have a an interest in being successful Yeah, I mean I uh So yeah, you know, I mean there's there's that aspect and so i'm not saying trust me or trust matt I'm saying like if if you're giving us your time every friday night You get to talk to us at length and ask questions and stuff eventually You have to maybe you can hear enough of things that you get a general sense of who we are Yeah, but I will say that ig is an image And that sociopaths are very very good at curating an image Yeah, you know they do best and um, you know and yet someone just said nobody's perfect people aren't perfect. You're right People aren't You know, um people aren't perfect and i'm not even trying to judge people. That's why i'm not calling anybody out by name Yeah, i'm just saying a general i'm just saying a general state of events I do have someone I was gonna call out by name, but um It's uh, it's getting late and there's one more big thing. I want to I want to get put aside So it's not just my opinion. I'm actually using their words Um, yeah, I'm not gonna it's not even a big enough deal really, but it'll just be funny It'll be fun for someone I've looked up to Do it Do what? Whatever you were about to do or you're not. No, no, I I still need some of the um, the old some of the details Yeah, yeah, so because I don't want it just to be my opinion I want it to be dude's own words. Sure. No, I get it Yeah, so I mean and that's kind of what we talk about like when people are like the kanilluminati You know, yeah the kanilluminati is not like some kind of organization or membership There's no dues, you know, there's no one that controls it. What it basically means Is that you're enough of a weed head That you care enough of the history to hold on to strains to hold on to seeds to want to dig for the truth And you talk to other people like that and then basically it's a it's a like-minded group Of people and we know who each other are and it's like even amongst that group. There's not even really trading No, there's just like dude like once, you know, it's like, uh, you know a skunk VA and I were talking earlier today about it It's like we're not going to trade anything. No, like it's like, oh you need a couple of these and I can get you this or whatever It's it's not like a trade. It's more just like You know, yeah, this is what I have. This is what you have. Yeah, you know I don't think there's anything wrong with trading because trading is perfectly acceptable Especially if you don't know each other, but once you've been personal friends for a couple of decades Yeah, it's just friends helping friends Yeah, you know and a lot of the ways that this stuff exists like, you know our history That's really why I'm chatting is because I don't want all of our history to be lost No I want it to be out there in some kind of form and it's almost all Yeah, and and with a lot of the forums going down over the years, whether it be from the feds, you know getting ahold of the ic mad server to Uh, you know can a collective potpimp any of the the uh, C depot any of those that have gone down. They had a lot of uh information on them like c depot A lot of people that people look at today is old school heroes and whatnot or really trustworthy people all popped up on c depot And their whole history is gone because that's that site was gone. The dude disappeared after fucking everyone over the owned it So, um, that's gone, but it's in a lot of people's memories. So this is really the only chance we have to put that out there Yeah, and so we're just we're just trying to we're just trying to like regurgitate stuff And get it out there and get different versions of things Yeah, you know, um, and and you know like like anything, you know, some of these stories There's people that have different memories Yeah, there's people that have different versions even like the three or four people that were there might not tell the same tale Yeah, they were the ones that were there I know I got a nickname for being a power bottom at the last party and i'm pretty sure I was power top pretty sure You know, but I mean it's it's cool because then you get then you get, you know, these parties these gatherings and stuff They really are bonding Yeah, they really are where human connections are made You get to smoke a bunch of your good friends weed You get to see them in person you get to hear what their voice sounds like and hear them laugh You get to break bread and food with people You know, yeah, um, and you get to share weed and share experiences And so I think that's you know what maybe we can get the can alumina can illuminati parties together again Uh now that covet seems to be dying down and there's lots of people that are either been infected or vaccinated And it's not so much like the plague Yeah, it was for a few years where it was shutting shit down Um, but those kind of gatherings are important and so tonight, you know, we're almost at two hours So I'll probably shut up here in a second But I just wanted to give like a general random overview of some of the overlapping things that were happening in that era Yeah, it really set the stage for everything that came after Yeah, it was really where a lot of friendships were made It was where a lot of trading and a lot of seed exchange was done It was where a lot of cuttings and a lot of people smoking other people's weed And learning happened and then a lot of those guys, um ended up becoming super well known in the community Yeah You know, um, so, you know, it it uh You know, but you don't know it at the time No, that's the that's the funny thing about history is you don't know if you're if you're making it You don't know, you know, so um, but really what it boils down to is we're all just people Some of us care about the plant Yeah, uh, some of us care about rapping money and and and you know scamming people And there's a big conflict between those two right now Yeah in the community. There's been one for a long time Yeah, but it's gotten more public and I mean even like, you know, that's been doxed before You know and even some of those comments I was referencing that we're not going to mention this week people were saying my real name Yeah, um, not that I cared to some degree because It's it, you know, like I'm showing my face every week. So yeah principal of the thing though You're not saying your christian name every week. No, I'm not saying my christian name every week Or anything like that, you know, and so you know, but but what's funny about that is that I can use that later to prove something That will like blow them up in the face Yes Yeah, and I've been pushed enough enough times by this human being to You know just it sucks to have to do it But because they're saying such extreme shit Like there's not only a few things in life that I take pro personal is when you talk about your friends family Or you call me a fucking nazi like I spend my whole young life Literally fist fighting nazis and being punched by them many many many times So I take it very seriously when someone accuses me of such things. So yeah, and you're And I'm a jewish mexican. Yeah There's not there's not too many nazi jews, you know, it's kind of unusual But so anyway, matt if you want to do your plug because we're almost two hours here or whatever Yeah, so we have our patreon It's called the breeder syndicate patreon The way to find it is to go to google and type in breeder syndicate patreon If you go to patreon and type in breeder syndicate It's not going to come up because it is a pot channel and you cannot search pot channel So go to google type in breeder syndicate patreon Tomorrow i'm going to be watching fights if you want to, you know, hang out and do some fight watching we could do that um We have the the santa cruz goat farm Fem fem lines the the reversed arcade of train wreck lines Up for sale right now on the site go check them out My boy packs a fucking killer dude and he made some killer things including the santa cruz blue dream train wreck, which i'm really really stoked to see We also have uh me and csi's Hawaiian lights drop i'm about to make the Hawaiian lights hybrids public So everybody can fucking join in and and grab that shit So go check it out. Um, yeah, so I think I think that's it. Go go check out speak easy They they do all the editing of the podcast and stuff. So go give them support follow and and I'll just say one thing after matt did all that, you know, we're getting up to 200 230 250 people a week now doing this every every friday Um, thank you all for listening. Yeah, thank you all for taking time out of your night to bullshit with us and ask questions As always you can reach reach me on ig you can message me If you're trying to he's been approved improving or approving people So I've literally approved like 1500 people this week and it keeps going if you really want to get approved send me a message At um, and I'll see it and I'll do it faster for you. I'm trying to get through But everyone I really appreciate you giving us your some part of your friday night And we're gonna try to get more topics and more history out there And keep it fun. So thank you all so much Thank you guys. Uh, see you next week. Cheers