 Welcome everybody to Voices of Vermont. It's a new project, a journalistic project that is being carried by a news co-operative, you know, a news co-op that from now on will review what makes the news in our city, Burlington, but also across the state of Vermont and the nation. Today, we have on the set- And the world. And the world, yeah, of course. We have with us members of this co-op, Steve Goodkind, Cindy Baird, and a special guest today, Ali Jang, who is a city councilor who is here. And then we'll start right away with Ali and then because we're going to talk about the new BTV neighborhood code, which has been approved recently anonymously by the city council and which aimed to improve the lodging and situation in Vermont. So to start with it, how, what is it exactly, Ali? Yeah, yeah. Thank you for having me. And neighborhood code is something that people have been waiting for a very, very long time. And it is simply about changing the zoning in the neighborhoods around the city in order to allow people to be able to build more. So we did it in three different phases, right? The phase one is about, if you have a high density, if you're allowed to have a high density, you are allowed to have 45% of your lot can be transported into housing, right? And those housing can go from four to six units. If you are medium, it would be about 32% of your lot can be transformed into housing. And if you are low density, it would be around 23%. So now it is just allowing people to be able to change to go higher and also to utilize their lots in order to build more housing. So I think in a nutshell, that's what neighborhood is about. Do they change any of the density areas or just what's allowed within the current densities? Yeah, so thank you, that's a good question. So all the densities have changed, but I think in one point where it is in ward six, that's only part where we have low density, in order for it to go up, right? But I think as part of that, the rest of the city, everywhere, especially the old North end, it will be all medium to high, but also major arteries in the city, such as North Avenue, Eton Island Parkway, not Eton Island Parkway, but Colchester Avenue, all those would be like high density in order for those buildings to go higher and up, right? So I think the city council is also for the sake of, let's say, equity. They brought a lot of amendments. Some of them were to carve out some neighborhoods in order for them to not be in the medium density, such as Mansfield Avenue, you know, on ward one and ward eight, and also other people tried extensively in order for the zoning to be applied to everywhere in part of the city, such as in the ward six, ward five, New North, and to ensure some level of equity. But some of those amendments passed, but some of them did not pass. But at the end of the day, the Burlington City Council voted anonymously to move it forward. And I think we need to give the mayor a little bit of credit because he did propose this as part of his 21th plan in order to build a more housing in the city of Burlington. And he has done it while he was stepping out to not become the mayor anymore. So you said there was some exemption or not for ward one and eight? No, no. Yeah, basically, yes, there is at least one neighborhood, one specific neighborhood, very close to UVM. Right. To UVM MC, that was carved out to become only, let's say, low density, right? Because they were scared. One, their lot wasn't big. And two, since it's very close to the UVM MC, then the developers will come by those four millions of dollars in order to build it in high density. So now the feel of a neighborhood would then disappear, right? And I think the people, the residents who were in that area were really scared. And I think the city council, I think on a vote of seven to five, it passed. It passed. So I was excluded in the final. Exactly. Because my neighborhood was included? No, it was not, your neighborhood was included, but there was just one specific street, right? Ah. East Avenue, I believe. Yeah. Yeah, East Avenue, that area to stay in low density. You still can build, but you cannot build very, very, very high up. So I can put an extension on my house now? Of course. And also you'll be able to rent it. And I think if you marriage that with what the intensive that the state of Vermont has, I think everyone, it will be a win-win situation. You can stay in your house, retire in your house, provide housing and in order to leverage also funding from the state of Vermont to be able to do so. They have a very good program that will allow you to take up to $50,000, right? To remodel or add a unit in your house and but you will only be able to rent that house for $1,000 for a certain amount of time. So I think it's a win-win situation and Burlington made it now happen for the city of Burlington. Okay. We hope to be joined by a guest from Ivory Coast, all cities around the world, you know, facing this problem. Abidjan, where I grew up also is going towards like vertically, you know, growing. Is Burlington really ready to do that? I was talking to Steve Goodkine last time. We talked about, you know, suing, you know, suey... Surcapacity, yeah. Yep, yep, yep, underwater, you know, the infrastructure, the underwater, you know, all of it. But I think, you know, we have to think about this in a very incremental way. This is the zoning change that just happened. But I think anyone who would like to build, you have to go through the process. You have to go to DRB, right? You have to be approved by the city council. Everyone? You cannot just come and build. I think there are permits. Yes, yeah, you get all the city permits. And if, you know, you also pay into the inclusionary zoning, I think there are a lot of other steps, right? In order for someone to transform a lot into more housing. Yeah. I'm not sure what people are, much they're aware of it, but our sewer capacity is not, we don't have much reserve. I'm surprised even that the project proposed for down in the south end that we have the capacity for that. Former product works director, I know we are always sort of on the edge. We've got to make a major investment in wastewater for this to be accommodated. Yes, yes. And I think for major development, you are completely right. There are some concerns and I think, how do we tie it into our efforts of just being climate, you know, resilience as well? Right, because it is, we don't want also the help of our lake to be undermined by the zoning, right? But eventually, if we don't do it right, that may happen. But I am confident that the city of Burlington will look this into very close proximity in order for us to do it right. But now we just allow the zoning change and then let's see what's next. Did they talk at all about the tax implications if someone now is on a property, let's say it was a low density and now it's a medium density. That property is now worth more. Will people be taxed based on that worth, even if they don't develop? Or will that just be help? No, no, I mean, I think, you know, as, since we did, how do you call it? We reassess, re-appraisal. Since we did the re-appraisal, every lot will not change, things will change. Things will not change. But now, if you apply for a permit and receive a permit and build, I think it's just exactly where you are. People won't be charged or won't be appraised based on the potential use of their property. It'll be the actual use, you think? I think, I think it's just that if, when an appraisal is taking place, whatever, they will not base it on the application you have moving forward, right? If you submitted an application, I think, I don't think that they will be able to base your, the value of your property because you submitted an application. It will be just based on the status of that lot and that's when they will appraise that value and then in order to taxi you appropriately, right? I think it's the case. But eventually, if you build, if you increase your density, therefore, you will have... Then, of course, you won't have taxis, yeah. I think we went through the subject very well. It's the story, you know, that is continuing, anyway. We'll see how it ends up. But we have to remember that it was passed, this initiative serves as a response to a problem and what was the real problem? What was the problem? Yeah, the lack of housing, right? I think it's one. But I think also one element about this is we will be changing our administration very soon and the current... Monday. Monday, yep. And also the former, sent a letter to the Full City Council asking people to vote on it. She will inherit it. She will be inheriting this and in order to move it forward. But I think also her partner is the one who is managing the water division of the City of Berlin. So I think there has been some substantial amount of research and this is a good thing and we will continue to do it. And I urge you to maybe, you know, identify one hour in the future and just talk about this because it's a lot. There's a lot of ins and outs. Yeah, yeah, we're planning to do that but we wanted to, you know, at least to bring to our audience, you know, what made news this week in the Queen City. Another news that concerns you, Ali, the fact that, you know, the City Council also the same way everybody together, you know, accepted that sister city project with TS in Senegal. Could you talk about this project? Absolutely. I think there were actually two different sister cities that were approved. One was in one city in Ukraine that I cannot say the name is very, and also the Chess East. And as you know, you all were aware that since last year I have been trying to build the bridge between the two communities and visited Senegal last year and all paid for by the City of Burlington in order to go to Chess East and talk about the opportunity, the potential of building the sister city between the two municipalities. And some of you may know also, that's exactly where I grew up in Chess. I went to the same school, middle school, with the current mayor. We did not know until we were talking about the possibility of building this and he was like, I think we did middle school together. I'm like, oh, I didn't remember. He's like, yes, you were in A and I was in B. Okay, then I think couple friends connected and I have to say, yes, you were all at the same time. You know, and I think also one thing to highlight about why this is so important is the city of Burlington has never had any sister city with any other countries in Africa. This is the first time that it is happening and it is with Chess East. Another element is also the Vermont National Guard has established a military partnership with the state of Senegal since 2008, a strong partnership. The guards here know it very well. The presidents, the past two presidents of the Senegalese country were here in 2008 and also in 2014, both Abdulai Wad and Makisal were here. You know, all the time you see guard members going to Senegal, you see also Senegalese military personnel coming here, right? In August a couple people were here. And I think this is very good. Now the sister city is based on four different areas. One of them is about culture, exchange, cultural exchange. Two is about education, right? Three is about health, right? And then four is about the environment. I think Burlington is leading, let's say, the country around climate change mitigation. And I think there are opportunities for them to support the municipality of Chess in order to be climate resilient and also to bring our people together. Because we just need peace and love and prosperity and I'm glad that all of your support that we were able to make this happen but the city council voted anonymously to support it. Could I say, maybe ask you a question also. I see, I was a founding member of our sister city in Palestine and Israel in 1991. So I believe there's always been the theory that this is a way sister cities to actually be at peace with their neighbors. And that was also a face-to-face contact with the citizens of another country which I think that at least that's what the theory of sister cities are based on. And there are those of us in Burlington who had argued that Burlington has no business getting involved in international affairs. I've always argued that it is the best way to get involved in international affairs because at bottom, if we're always at war that meet with other countries that really does mean a big military budget which if you have a big military budget you don't have money for local projects. And so I've always argued that peace and war and friendship and cultural exchange are crucial to building a city and to building really a peaceful and more beautiful world. So I congratulate you Ali on doing this especially since it's the first sister city in Africa. We do have sister cities in the Middle East. We have sister cities in Europe. I think we used to have one in Canada, didn't we? Yeah, still were probably still there. No, there's a project that's developing to have a sister city in San Jean, Quebec. I know, San Jean de Richelieu in Quebec which I'm sort of a part of and we had one in Moss Point, Mississippi, didn't we? What happened to that one? But anyway, I would love to have a sister city I would like to have a sister city in Winooski, too. But anyway. Sister cities are a way to improve our relationship with the rest of the world. Exactly. But some sister cities are kind of bringing trouble. Like what? I mean, we have a sister city in Bethlehem. In Arat. In Arat. That's why the one that I helped to find, yeah. So how can a sister city not enjoy our support for example, a ceasefire? Or I mean, the sister city that is in the region that is at war? Can I say something that I really believe? I think the biggest, without due respect to everybody here, the biggest, one of the biggest mistakes that the Democrats made in this last election was not signing on to a ceasefire, particularly since the ceasefire between Israel and really the Palestinian people was so important for our sister city in Palestine. I think that the Democrats were kind of tuned up about that. We have relations with one of the cities that is being oppressed and has been by the state of Israel since 1948. And we didn't really stick up for both our sister cities, Arat and Israel, and our sister city in Palestine to help make peace. That's what I thought it should do. And one of the first components of that would be to recognize that we should have a ceasefire in that war. Other cities are passing it. Like in Rochester. Did you see that? Rochester, New York just passed a ceasefire resolution. Multiple municipalities. You were a sponsor of that too, weren't you, and good for you? Yeah, twice. And it was a shame, because I think the tide turned at that point in the election. And congratulations to Emma Mulvaney-Stanik for winning that election, because she signed on to a ceasefire resolution in the legislature, right? It was more of a letter going to the White House, and she signed it. She signed it. See if you can do it. No, I just want to make sure. Are we on? We're not showing up on that screen. Just to make sure that you're on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you're going to get into this now, right? So you're going to get ready, we're going to go. Okay, okay, alright. Before, it was a little bust, wow. Wow, that's good. No, no, no, not the bust. It's like, wow, that's good. That's good. I do have one question. I never thought of it just now, but where are sister cities with, is it Arad? Yes, in Israel. Are they sister cities too? Well, they're supposed to be. But where are they supposed to be, part of the deal? I'm just coming on why we did that. Yeah, I didn't know if we were or not. No, okay, so at the time, there were many of us citizens who were always involved in this issue between Israel and Palestine. I was one of them. The initial proposal was that we only have a sister city in Bethlehem, Palestine. However, many people opposed that because they said, no, we should be even handed and so forth, and I kind of agreed with that. So there was a proposal made on city council to have a tripartite arrangement. And so we did select a sister city in Arad. And that's fine. That was good. However, since the inception, Israel and Palestine have been at war with each other. So Arad has sort of just dropped out of the picture. I would like to resume that relationship. Sure. Arad and Bethlehem weren't part, weren't sister cities? Yeah, they were trying to communicate. And then it just got a fell apart. Over the course of the years, which, oh, but remember the meeting that I was at with you? And there was some suggestion from the, I would say the community that objected to the ceasefire that we resumed that. That's a great idea. Don't you think? I think it's a good idea. And I think also, CCTV did host the sister city coordinator between Arad and Bethlehem right here. Yes, many years ago. He did a show like a couple of weeks ago, like right here. What's his name? In Essex. No son is there. No son is there. Yeah, no. No, it has been, but we all wanted always to revive it. Because there's nothing like speaking together. I'm with you. Yeah, Burlington is becoming like a voice. A reason. For the international world. And then I see that trend across the nation. Cities are, you know, asserting the. You know what? Because governments, national governments are only making wars. Cities should make peace. Right from Burlington, we travel now to Senegal. Correct. And then we cross the Atlantic Ocean to get in Dakar, where Basiro, Basiro-Jomai Fais, you know, remarkable ascent marks a culmination, the culmination of tumultuous, you know, period in the Senegalese politics. Senegal has a new president. We'll discover this new president to this video before we come back here on the set and to discuss with our friend also who's joining us from the Ivory Coast, Dr. Sosten Dugroo, who's, you know, political analyst. And he said he's a humanitarian diplomat. So let's go to Senegal. Here's the video. Basiro-DMI Fai turned 44 on Monday. And for his birthday this year, news that he'd been elected Senegal's next president. Fai made his first public appearance on Monday evening after the ruling coalition's candidate, Amadou Bar, conceded defeat. The Senegalese people have chosen to break with the past, to give substance to the immense hopes raised by our vision of society. I hope that our vision of society has given substance to their aspirations. I pledge to govern with humility. I pledge to govern with humility and transparency and to fight corruption at all levels. At the blaze, at the blaze. Fai thanked President Makisal and other candidates for respecting Senegal's democratic tradition by recognising his victory well before official results. Provisional results had shown the opposition leader on 53.7% of the vote from Sunday's election, compared to Bar's 36.2%. Saal and Bar hailed the outcome as a win for Senegal. The country has witnessed three years of unprecedented political turbulence, marked by violent anti-government protests. Further unrest was triggered when Saal attempted to postpone the election by 10 months. We intend to turn this page to reconcile hearts, to reconcile the Senegalese people. Fai was backed by popular opposition leader Uzman Sonko. He had been barred from running in the election due to a defamation conviction he says was politically motivated, which the authorities denied. Fai and Sonko, who were recently released from prison under a pre-election amnesty law, are particularly popular among the youth, disaffected by economic hardships and unemployment. Fai promised to dedicate more state resources to help the younger population. His campaign has also vowed an economic shake-up, including a new currency and the renegotiation of energy and mining contracts. Investors have been wary about whether a new government would be less business-friendly than Saal's administration. But on Monday, Fai promised that Senegal would remain a friendly country and a reliable ally, to any partner who engages with us in virtuous, respectful and mutually productive cooperation. in Senegal, by not mayor, no state legislator, he was just a tax inspector in Senegal, and a smart guy who did very well in school, and he earns a master degree in law, and then he did the administration school in Senegal, and then he was hired as a tax inspector in Senegal. He's frightening. We welcome now Susten Dugu, Susten, you joining us from Abidjan. Dr. Susten Dugu, what are your comments, you know, from this unprecedented election in Senegal? Yes, can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. First thing though. Okay, thank you very much, and good evening from Abidjan. And before sharing my comments, I want to recall one or three points regarding Senegal in West Africa. As you may know, Senegal stands as a very important country in the political and historical landscape in West Africa, because during the time of slavery trade, Senegal and the Highland of Gore is well known as the place where the slaves were gathered before departing to the US. So Senegal is a place that is well known. And secondly, Senegal was also during the colonial empire and the France, Senegal was in Dakar particularly, was the capital city of the Francophone West African countries, Everintogo, Benin, Côte d'Ivoire, Mali and Bukinafaso. And thirdly, during the Second World War, Senegal was also a place where many African soldiers were gathered and departed to France and to Europe to fight against the Nazism. So talking about Senegal is a little bit very exciting. And what is happening today, as the president himself said, is marking a breakup. A breakup regarding the generation that is now getting on power. The president, someone we call it recently is very young, is only 44 years, 44 years. So from the past governing class, Makisar Abdul-Juf and talking about Maitre Abulaiwad and also the first president, now we are clearly seeing that there's a breakup of generation and something new is happening in Senegal. And secondly, the very tight link between Senegal and France is now posing some question regarding the future of those relationships. Because for a long time, commencing by the founder of Senegal, President Leopold Cédar-Senghor, he was very close to France. He was married to a French citizen and member of a French academia and also his successor, President Abdul-Juf. After his time on office has been appointed and is currently working as the Secretary General of the International Organization of Francophonia. And the one who is now going to leave the office, Makisar. Makisar has also been appointed last year as a Special Envoy of an initiative held by France. So having good... It's not only a change of generation, like clearly the system is changing. It seems that we're breaking away from a past colonial second empire, I should say. Yeah, definitely. As I said during the colonial time, Dakar was the epicenter of the power of France in West Africa, in Francophone West Africa, particularly. And today, we are seeing that there's a kind of trend... Now turning the page from France to a new era, because the new elected president himself said that we are breaking up. We are on a break-up period. And commencing now, the upcoming days, we are going to see new change into the relation diplomatic, the external policy of France, of Senegal, sorry, against France, the policy of Senegal against Côte d'Ivoire and other leading countries into the West African region. I think something very important is happening, and we have to be careful to listen and to look. So what you're saying, I think, and Ali, I ask you also, is there seems to be throughout West Africa a move again of decolonialization, really against France? Is that what's happening in a way? Yeah, against France, but also Ali. Against the US, too. I mean, the US is paying for its, you know, alliance with France. Yeah, exactly. You know, because the US is being seen, yeah? Yes, no, I'm talking about the past, the past history that we are sharing with France. And this history, well, now, this history has been questioning by the new generation. Are we going to continue having the same relation with France as our father had, or are we going to change? Because this generation is calling itself game changers. So we are going to see on the political arena, the way the game is going to change. We have seen some brutal change in Brazil, in Burkina Faso, in Asia, and other countries in Guinea that are marking the break, but these have been installed by some people. I'm not talking about this. I'm talking about the changing of generation through electoral process. That's true in Senegal. Yeah, in Senegal. And Senegal is now giving a very good example of how to transition from this former established relationship with France. And in this relationship was analysed like very heavy. It was very heavy on our political environment, very heavy on our economy, programming, heavy on everything. So now, as I said, is a new era that is happening, not only for Senegal, but also from West African, from African countries. Like Niger. But in Senegal, the power over there was opposed to this change. We saw the former, I mean the Makisal sending his opponents to jail. Is France going to accept that change? Which is clearly is a threat to the way they make money in Africa. No, I'm not sure. I'm not sure because as you know, Dhaka is also the headquarter of our central bank of West African countries. So the influence that trust had on our money, on our currency in West Africa is going to play a good role in the future of this relationship. But I'm not sure that this victory and this change would be easily accepted by France. I'm not sure. So we're in the city and we have to be very careful and cautious about the future of this new president. I was just going to ask you what do you think? I mean, I think, yes, there is a change of perception about Africa, West Africa currently. I think there is also new generation stepping up and in some cases it's by force. If you go to Ivory Coast, not Ivory Coast but Burkina Faso, you go to Mali, you go to Guinea, right? They took it by coup. Now in Senegal it's just demonstrating that we still can have a peaceful transition through just a ballot box. And I think that's what will happen. But Ali, if the president, Maki Sal, was insisting in not letting the democratic process go through, I mean, and I think also that's it speaks again volume to the health of the democracy of Senegal because the institutions there are really secure and they are very strong. Maki Sal tried repeatedly to push the elections until December 15 and then to push it again until June but the constitutional did say completely no, these elections will take place and they did it very quickly. Jomai Fay, the current president himself and also his good friend Usman Sonko were both in prison. They were released 10 days just before the election and they were released through an amnesty that Maki Sal have signed. Now, why Amadouba did not win? There are speculation because Maki Sal did not support him and Amadouba was also the prime minister of Senegal, right? I think also through the relationship with the friends we have to be also very careful because I think from the perception of the France, say for the monetary that we use, it has a strong tie with France, with also other countries such as the Africa. Let me just before Ali continues 14 or 15 countries in Africa share the same currency that is brought by France to them. So they cannot do anything else but you know... Exactly. Is it the French franc? It is an element. Yes, it is your own franc. But you know that is tailored to just Africa. It was called the franc of the colony of Africa back in the days and then because the name was not sexy they changed it CFA, just CFA but France keeps half at least of the reserve a currency like if for example Senegal gets a deal with the US like $1,000 the dollars like half of it goes to France and it's told they make babies and France with this money can loan money to Senegal or to their own money and then this currency they cannot do anything with this currency but you know use it in Africa. So the new generation the new president of Senegal is promising maybe to revisit this you know Bitcoin. That's my point. Do you think then that France is going to be so nice about this? I mean I think they don't have a choice. I think they are now called to the negotiation table and it's not only about the currency. It's also about a lot of contracts about mining the exploration of gas petrol in Senegal that need to be revisited and I think that's what this new generation of leaders are talking but from my perspective it would be imperative also let's make the distinction between winning an election and also you know governing you know and I think he's new there are a lot of speculation out there I think we need to give him a benefit for a doubt for him to compose his strong government and then for him to advance what they call the project and then we will see from there but for now I think from as much as I'm interested I think the United States need to have a strong presence in West Africa and I think we need to identify what are the ways I'll rebound on that but Steve I don't know that much about Senegal I know where it is but a lot of the countries that come from colonial times the boundaries of those countries are often set culturally ethnically people are divided up and many of these countries end up being unstable because they're not they're not in balance is Senegal more of a stable country or does it have its own insurgency you'll have to deal with yeah we are talking about the political stability of Senegal yeah just wondering if they have a stable country or they have insurgencies that are somewhat related to the fact that the boundaries were drawn in a crazy way 50 years ago or 100 years ago by France I think Senegal is a case to study from my perspective if you see a country that access it to the independence in the year 60s Senegal was the first country where a life resigned and appointed is another one as a new president so the first transition in Senegal was a very good transition it was made peacefully without a no-gun without nothing in the country so this was a very good example except the other country like Bukinaw Faso the first school was in 1966 in Benin in 1967 in all of the countries in West Africa there were two before the year 70s and Senegal is an exception and as you see all the transition in Senegal has been made peacefully except this one I can say because Makisal tried several times to postpone the election to make a constitutional coup for me it is a very good example for us to copy I mean to spread out across West Africa and come to the way the transition has been conducted in Senegal so bringing the story of Senegal to the US you said the US has to have a good presence in West Africa but also a new way of doing business in West Africa not just being a superpower would get there to give lessons right? All I was going to say is that the United States however does not have a great history in West Africa or in Africa period because it has Africa it has military bases all over Africa that's how the United States has also related to Africa is militarily because it sees itself I think in competition with the Russians and the Chinese and I think that Senegal with all due respect I know Ali will will think about that past and wonder whether the United States is going to use this as a way to militarize Senegal as well I think United States and Senegal already have a military partnership through training and medical intervention etc but I think the geopolitical aspects of what's going on in West Africa need to be highlighted which is there is a strong presence of the Chinese now in Senegal over 32% of the goods that are being imported are now coming from China we see the Russian are also currently in Burkina Faso they are also in Mali so the United States has to step up for his game in order to make sure that Senegal is a stable country because that's the only country right now with all the surrounding other countries like Germany, Gambia they all had somewhat an element of coup data in the past couple of years 89 and recently in the 2000s but I think Senegal is still showing the way to be a very democratic country based on the constitution and the rule of law and I think from my perspective the United States love that and the United States need to support Senegal to deepen its tie also in the region but you cannot support Senegal to do that and let the other countries face big corporations that are there to wipe the resources France that is having military base across the region I think this story has to be followed quickly ladies and gentlemen this week we had something that made news which is and then perceived as a drift from the original dogma which is following Israel at any cost the US didn't object to a resolution at the UN in favor of ceasefire is it just a little drama between two allies or it will have consequences on the ground I think we almost are out of time I think it's a continuing story first of all I think that the United States did something that the Biden administration has to do if it's going to win and that is to propose a ceasefire will the United States do that really in the end does it support a ceasefire this is what it doesn't do it does not enforce any kind of stop to sending arms and money to a state of Israel that's the crucial thing will it do that I guess no Steve Goodkind so it might be just how do you say it a storm it probably has some important two sides I don't think either one of them is going to abide by the ceasefire neither one wants to that's the problem this is like one does and one doesn't have a deep disagreement this is my disagreement with him is that the Palestinian people are being massacred that's what has to stop and that has to stop immediately there are no two sides to that it has to stop will the United States make it stop I would guess not because it will continue to weaponize Israel it's up to us Americans to say weapon exchange or not exchange has to stop but the U.S. still saying that we need to uproot Hamas I'm telling you what I believe that massacre has to stop you're asking a different question will it will the United States make Israel stop will the United States stop sending weapons to Israel my guess is no however it's a continuing story Dougro we finish with you and then we'll close that wonderful discussion yeah from Africa we are opposing this decision of the United States with two ends and from my from my diplomatic background I know that the UN revolution are not binding and the United States is the only country that can stop Israel if nothing is done the United Nations they have no military means they have no political means to stop Israel only the United States can do that so they have to do that that's my opinion alright folks should we close by this thank you Ali thank you Sandy, thank you Steve thank you Eric, thank you that was the first of the voices of Vermont we hope to continue to bring issues and see much disagreements on the set thank you to all of you thank you