 Hello everybody. Welcome back to A World on the Move where we talk to refugees and migrants and we're talking in particular about the summit for the 19th of September. It's a real delight to have Dan Thomas with us today, who's a spokesperson for the president of the General Assembly. Dan, we're delighted to have you here. Thank you. Thank you to everybody on the show, on the call. It's a real pleasure to meet you. I'm here in New York at the United Nations Headquarters. I work for the president of the General Assembly, as Bernard said. He represents 193 member states of the United Nations and essentially he is charged with organizing the summit for refugees and migrants on the 19th of September, where for the first time in history, heads of state and government will come together to talk about this issue and to set in motion a two-year international process which will really try and get the United Nations together to figure out how we can improve the situation that refugees and migrants are facing and put in place some international architecture and agreements to safeguard the rights of refugees and migrants to help countries cope with these large movements of people that we're seeing, more people on the move than ever before in history. What we're doing on this show is we're bringing the refugees and migrants to our summit and we're really hoping to hear that their voice comes through and is listened to at that summit as well. So yeah, the two points for the General Assembly for this year on refugees and migrants would be first, the economic empowerment of refugees. We lacked a lot on the aspect of how can we involve employment, how can we cooperate with corporations in order for refugees to be able to empower themselves and not to be dependent on certain form of aid. How can we start businesses for refugees and refugee camps? How could we influence the employment laws in Lebanon or in Syria or wherever Palestinians wear? So I really hope that this year, building an economy for refugees become a focal point in the discussion about migrants and refugees and that's based on my experience and the experience of my people. Definitely one of the subjects which will be very much present at this summit and for member states, the governments of this world to look at ways that they can actually empower the refugees and migrants, the people on the move themselves to provide for their future, their families and to get to work as possible. That's definitely one of the issues. Let's invite Ahmed in. Ahmed you're in the US and tell your story briefly and perhaps speak directly to the issues of the summit as you see them and perhaps Dan can respond. I think this summit is especially important because it's allowing a platform not only for the world leaders are going to be discussing this but for the refugees themselves who are going to have the chance to tell their stories with the world. So I just had a quick question for Dan. As far as the summit, is there a youth component? I think there is something that's oftentimes missing and the narrative of refugees and migrants is the youth empowerment part of it. There's this idea that youth only have to reach a certain age and in order to make a difference in their community or in their country or in the world. So I was just wondering how is that or will that be addressed at the summit? Absolutely. One of the things that I think all of us at the United Nations are very conscious of is the fact that the young people of the world are growing in number. This is a huge issue and they're not often very well represented at the United Nations. A lot of heads of state and government and ministers and one of the things that we will be doing at this summit is to bring the voices of young people in. The other thing to say is that in the absence of young people invited into the summit because they're not heads of state or government presenting their country. It's all more important that refugees and migrants themselves take to the internet, take to social media to make their voices heard. Make sure that what they need, what they want to say is fed into the drumroll to this summit. I'm going to bring in Michelle now who's originally from Lebanon but living in Spain and her academic work is on the criminalization of migrants. Tell us, Michelle, why you think this would be relevant for the summit? What I came to discover is that it's not about skills and it's not about the availability of work. So we're not actually talking about whether these migrants have skills or not for them to be able to enter the labor market or it's not whether there are available jobs or not. It is simply a matter of documentation and legal barriers. So for a Palestinian, it is very, very difficult to be able to work in Lebanon because of paperwork. And this is something that I am personally now suffering with in Spain. So it's not a matter of skills or whether I am able to secure a job or no. It's just a matter of having a work permit or a visa. And what is going to happen to all these refugees that are coming in? We are discussing resettlement. We are discussing integration. But as a matter of fact, what is going to happen with them on the legal notions? Some people move to other countries become illegal just because they want a better life or because they're having, not necessarily because they're having troubles in their countries but just because they want to move. And so they overstay their visas and such. This is definitely one of the key issues. And as you say, and as I said before and as Chaka said, I mean, these are the most productive people you could find in any country. These are people who have made a lot of sacrifices. They've lost a lot. They've moved from their homes and they want to contribute to the place that they've come to. They want to look after their own families. They don't want to live on handouts. They have skills and qualifications to offer their host communities and clearly not having the opportunity to work, not having the level playing field. It's going to be hard for them to stand on their own two feet and to make that contribution. And governments are very well aware of that. It has to be addressed. It will be one of the key issues discussed. Quite often the perception of who is a migrant and what that migrant is doing, whether it's a negative or a positive thing, is usually wrong. And I think part of the role of this summit is to bring out the complexity of the migrant story. And at that I'm going to talk to Pierre, because Pierre has an interesting story because he is, in a sense, a South migrant. He's from South Africa to Argentina. And I'd like to speak for yourself, Pierre, and take it away. So in terms of the summit or rather the process that will follow it, for me the two major things that need to be focused on is firstly, how do we allow refugees and migrant workers to get work? And as Michelle pointed out, that is both legal and practical. How do we legally allow a refugee, say in Syria, to work for an American company and then how do we pay them? So that's a major barrier that needs to be sorted out and can be sorted out with international collaboration. And then the other challenge is how do you get people to migrate by not moving? How do you get communities to migrate from their ignorance? How do you get people to be aware of things? I mean, as a traveler and as a migrant, I'm very privileged to have that exposure, but I did so by moving. How can we give that same gift to people who don't move or can't move? Very much thanks to all of you who've joined us at Very Short Notice today. And once again, thanks from a world on the move.