 Welcome to another recovery Monday. I cannot believe it's Monday already. We didn't have a live stream last week But I feel like we literally just did this so I know we didn't I know it's been two weeks But time super flies by so we're back again And today we're gonna talk a little bit about the concept of healing and the question is do I have to heal in air quotes? And I'm not minimizing healing don't at me here, but do I have to heal in order to recover? So Just let me know that everything is okay Let me put the chat overlay up so you guys can talk to each other and I can see what's going on And you can see what's going on some of my favorite parts of the recovery Monday live streams as you guys talk into each other in the comments Which I really did I have a heater on in my office because it's actually cold in here If you hear that background hum, just somebody let me know why can't I quit you says Becky? Don't quit me because then there'd be like nobody from twitch or maybe there'd be one person left from twitch Anyway, can see you can't hear me Why can we not hear me? I Don't hear it. All right, let's stick with it here. Hang on No, no no no no audio it is set for road caster What is wrong Please hold how about now? Audio back or no can see and hear you excellent. Okay, perfect So I think it was just a setting on my Mac anyway. Sorry for the Completely silent first minute or so I can hear I can see you very very good. Thank you so much So anyway, how was everybody doing today? We have about 32 people It should be a bigger crowd a bunch of people said that they were going to pop in today But that's fine. So whenever they arrive, it's pretty informal Remember that these always stay the replays stay on my youtube channel forever So you can always pop back in and see rewatch if you want or if you missed the beginning That's totally fine So today we're going to talk about the the idea of healing as part of the recovery process and full disclosure I will always own my stuff, right? So if you follow me on instagram yesterday morning I got a little cheeky You know using my my the slang of my british friends got a little cheeky and I posted a story pain where I essentially said hey If you are going to be in the healing business and you know nothing about anxiety disorders And you automatically want to make everybody dig for hidden pain hidden trauma and spiritual meaning in their anxiety Please do not roll into my comment section and try and sell your coaching services because I had somebody do that rolled into my comment section and this happens quite often Clearly a healer of some kind like it seems to refer to him as himself as a shaman of some kind and that's fine That is totally fine. I am not dissing that but in the concept Within the context of anxiety disorders, especially things like ocd that stuff sort of doesn't have a place So I was kind of you know aggressive Although I did post the the message to that person with a picture of a really cute puppy, which I thought was really hilarious But that's just me. So anyway, that's how this whole thing came about I don't get to be sort of cheeky and sarcastic and aggressive if I'm not also going to own the fact that I was that way And maybe be a little bit educational about it So it bears talking about right a lot of people want to know about healing I know a lot of people use the word healing by default. I really want to heal and that's okay If that's the way you conceptualize things. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not here to take away the word from you but People ask do I have to heal as part of the process of getting better? Do I have to heal to recover and the answer is Maybe like I can't really answer the question because it depends on the context and I think Somebody who is just let's take the mechanics of like panic disorder or the mechanics of OCD For instance, and just break it down and be really dry about it You know, you learn these these bad cognitive lessons and you start to react to your own body And you learn to be afraid of your own heartbeat. For example, I use that example all the time But it is a reasonable example Is that a thing that you need to heal from? Well, my assertion and in fact when I wrote the anxious truth I even wrote that in the book that I do not call anxiety and illness I don't call it a disease now Some people don't like that some people get a little bit annoyed when I when I say that they They would prefer that it be an illness and that's fine You can say you have an illness if you want But I don't see it that way because I see it through a cognitive lens Like a cognitive behavioral lens Whereas other people might see almost all mental health conditions through a spiritual lens or through a lens of trauma That there must be some pain And we essentially in many instances will pathologize normal parts of human existence So people sometimes have bad experiences People do have panic attacks many many people have panic attacks As adults many many adults will experience one or more panic attacks in their lives People do get anxious we do get afraid But sometimes some people will say well that all means that there's some sort of pain and something Some wound that must be healed and they conceptualize almost every mental health problem as a pain problem that needs to be healed So this is why you hear people say well you have to heal you have to heal you have to heal So if you have learned and you interpret your own bodily sensations or your own thoughts as Scary or dangerous and they are scary and they seem dangerous. So those are real feelings. I get that But if that's what driving what's driving the problem Is there something that you have to heal in order to get better and the answer to that would be I don't think so necessarily, but there still might be things that In your life that you do need to heal from Does that mean that healing is at the root of your recovery from panic disorder or agoraphobia or ocd or health anxiety? No, it doesn't mean that but it means that for some people and you might make the argument many people We all carry some sort of wound. We all carry some sort of pain and does that need to be healed? Does that need to be addressed? Well, probably you could you could make the assertion that yeah We should probably all go on some sort of healing journey to some degree or another just that I don't know if I would connect it directly to recovery from an anxiety disorder because I don't think it necessarily belongs there and people with my sort of Theoretical orientation would say the same thing This is why there are some specialists who treat specifically ocd who are very very vocal about that because especially with ocd things can get really harmful So if you have somebody who's having recurring thoughts about you know something Some taboo subject or it's sexually off limits or something that isn't acceptable Or something that makes them feel like they might do something that they don't want to do And you force them to try to dig and dig and dig to find some sort of Pain that is causing that things can get dangerous for that person It can drive them into a state where they feel like there is no hope It could it could make them feel more despair than they already do So sometimes this becomes a very heated debate and my Interpretation here is that Do you need to heal your pain to learn that a panic attack isn't going to kill you? I believe the answer is no I think you can learn that lesson and still carry your pain And many people will say that they did learn that lesson Rationally and logically they understand all that but they're having a difficult time putting it into practice Sometimes if you're carrying some old trauma or old abuses It can get in the way of executing the recovery plan that I've talked about in the past If you just feel sort of structurally or systemically unsafe because of the life that you've been Unfortunately forced to live or experiences that you've had thrust upon you Then those can be things that can really hinder your ability to intentionally do scary things in order to get better So is healing required? Not automatically. So the point today is that I'm going to kind of Can't hear the heater. Okay, cool Um, sorry. I just got that So I think the point today is that we we don't automatically have to put the word healing into recovery from an anxiety disorder Because I don't know if we necessarily have to automatically say that something is broken Your body isn't broken your brain isn't broken your spirit isn't broken You might feel broken which I get because you feel discouraged and you feel like You're trying to get your life back and you can't those are real Feelings that we have to validate those are actual real interpretations that everybody goes through when we struggle But it doesn't mean that you have some sort of illness or wound that you have to heal from so I think I I try to take healing out of the core of it But if there is some healing in terms of past pain that has to happen in your life Well, it's never a bad idea to sort of look at those things Everybody gets to pick their own path though. So do you have to go down the road of digging through your past pain? No, some people choose to never ever do that and if that's the choice that you make That's perfectly valid choice Some people like to view every problem they have as somehow stemming from past pain that they must uncover If you want to go down that path you have every right to go down that path I don't get to tell you not to do it. Nobody gets to tell you not to do that. However I don't know if it's necessarily required, right? If you are Hey, Sean, good to see you again If you are, you know kind of stuck right now with you're dealing with the things that I I am addressing all the time If you have health anxiety if you are crippled with panic attacks If you're afraid to leave your house if you have OCD, you know the subjects that we talk about here Is that a healing problem? No, I don't believe it's a healing problem We can get this sort of kind of Drifts into the category of Nervous system regulation. I know somebody's going to ask about that Well, don't I have to learn how to regulate my nervous system? And even in that situation I would assert no you do not you have to teach your nervous system that it's okay to do what it's doing But it's doing it at the wrong time And surprisingly when people tend to go down that road and they forget trying to regulate their nervous systems Well, when they start to learn those lessons and change their behaviors and change those cognitive patterns through experience Surprisingly, their nervous systems tend to start to regulate themselves Like that just happens again and again and again. It's really hard to say then well my nervous system needs healing because it's dysregulated Well, your nervous system is firing at times that you don't want it to But using the word dysregulation and connecting it to somehow healing your nervous system I think is a bit of an extreme interpretation I realize that we could probably line up 50 therapists right now in the comment section who would be banging on the door to come on with me and tell me why I am wrong Especially if they are vested in sort of the trauma narrative and the whole body keeps the score thing I'm not I'm not discounting that I think that stuff is a reasonable explanation for why you react the way you do But I think sometimes we put ourselves in a bit of a trap and we sell ourselves a little short When we insist that we must heal something that isn't necessarily broken If there is some other broken stuff and it exists alongside your anxiety problem Well, there's nothing we're almost looking at that and and I would wish you well in doing that And I would encourage you to do it because it's probably good work to do And by the way that work is as hard sometimes as the work we're talking about now Like the mechanical work is really hard. It's difficult. It's counterintuitive. You have to go against your survival instinct It's scary. But you know what else is sort of hard work that Confronting childhood abuse confronting neglect confronting abusive relationships like working through those things. That's also really hard and scary So if you have that work to do also You have my respect for doing it because that is equally difficult scary and daunting work to do If you don't do that work, can you never get better from your anxiety disorder? I I know many people who have overcome the mechanical parts of the anxiety disorder And then gone on to do that other work Or have overcome the mechanical parts of the anxiety disorder and have chosen to not do that work and live What they feel are very productive and happy lives So that is a very individual thing. Nobody can tell you that like unless you completely heal you will never get better I don't believe that's true. It depends on your circumstance. It depends on what you believe It depends on what you want out of your life. It depends on what is important to you but Just the same way that I think don't let me tell you that you should never do healing work that would be So completely. Oh cool. We got it. We got a bot. Hang on. She wants to offer promotion of my channel My viewers and they're so good at promoting that they have to spam alive to actually It's a drum of business Living living room F is so good at promotion that they actually have to come in and spam a live stream to get customers That tells you everything you need to know Anyway, just like you shouldn't let me tell you that you should never ever do healing work That would be so irresponsible and wrong of me to try to tell you Don't let somebody insist to you that everything has to be a healing problem. That's equally irresponsible and equally not okay I should not be jamming my theoretical orientation into every aspect of your lives Nor should somebody be jamming their theoretical orientation into every aspect of your lives. That's not fair. That's just not cool So that's my take on the on the healing thing so um Let's go to comments really quick I don't have a lot to say on that but since I made a comment about it yesterday, you know I wanted to address it because it is a reasonable thing And and I do get it many people have asked a question And it's a reasonable question to ask the only reason why I got so aggressive about it at instagram yesterday and a little bit snarky And I think a little bit sarcastic and funny about it Is because that was somebody with a vested interest who is literally trying to drum up business for their their healing business And that's not cool. That's not cool at all. So let's look into the comment section already and let's see what we got And let's see here. I'm not a lot of comments today. I see but that's all right if you guys have questions throw them out there I can hear nothing is wrong. You're booking content. You're welcome. Nina. I'm glad it's helping In practice says Becky in practicing a lot of stuff. I just put away came up naturally. Let me put this on the screen Becky Thank you for sharing. You're always so open and I appreciate that so Becky says in practicing a lot of stuff. I just put away came up naturally and the job was to feel that That's actually pretty common. That's actually pretty damn common to be honest with you So a lot of people will say oh stuff came up that I didn't even know was going to come up That can happen like so even though we're talking about very sort of I don't know mechanical stuff, if you will I know people joke about you know in mental health people joke about people like me People that sound like me were the engineers with the mechanics, but even in doing that work you You could be damn sure that some other stuff is going to happen. There's emotional things memories come up issues come up pain comes up so sometimes I like to think of ways where the The work that we talk about doing where you learn that you can handle things like fear and uncertainty and vulnerability and panic even Also teaches us that we can we can handle pain. We can handle bad memories. We can handle regret It's not all the same There are varying degrees there and some is much harder to handle than others. There's no doubt about that but Sometimes I like to think of the process that we talk about is putting out the fire Like if you are on fire If you have a million if you have 10 problems And one of them is that you are on fire Then you kind of should put out the fire first and then you could probably go and tackle those other nine problems That was one of the somebody once told me that and that has stuck with me for a long time It was also an emergency room nurse who said hey if somebody comes into the er and they're bleeding The very first thing we have to do is stop the bleeding So I kind of look at the the stuff that we talk about here in many ways as stopping the bleeding It's really hard for somebody to deal with things like trauma resolution if they are terrified of their own bodies and thoughts So sometimes you do one and then the other sometimes you do the other and then the other Sometimes you do them at the same time. It's nobody can tell you with the right ways to do it So very good. Becky. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing Um, let's see. I'll put viola up on the screen. Hello viola. Good to see you I remember when my anxiety went into disordered anxiety and I went to therapists who tried to dig into my past It wasn't helpful But I think it may be helpful now that I'm better that that follows right along with the Becky just said to be honest with you And viola that's again a very common thing to to to find out like oh, I feel so much more capable now I feel like I can stand up on my own I don't feel like I crumble at the slightest sense of adversity in my body or mind Now I can maybe start to do some of that work So in that situation I would say that that therapist who just insisted that you had to dig and dig and dig and dig Is doing what they thought was right I you know, I would like to give that person the benefit of the doubt And in many instances even a therapist who has heard that like no, no, no, you don't dig to fix OCD Just can't personally get on board with that Which I guess I can understand But then sometimes there's personal views come into that and it's like we're not supposed to do it that way But we're also sort of given permission to pick the modalities that sort of resonate with us. So we're told and I've talked about this I'm not giving away secrets here therapy secrets, but You know when we're being trained we're we're told that like you're supposed to practice evidence based always evidence based But you're also allowed to pick modalities that just sort of resonate with you So I get why that person was was telling by all of that and you could see that maybe they weren't entirely wrong But it would be wrong to insist that that was the absolute way to do it Just like I would not insist that Don't ever dig for anything. You can only do exposures only do floating and accepting that would be crazy I would never say that that would be insane. So why do other people insist that that's the way to do it there's another there's another podcast or whatever you two person I'm not going to say the name but I've been in conflict with that person because their feeling is stop trying to cope. You got to heal so His insistence is that coping skills and all that stuff and we there's a match there because I say you don't want coping skills either But no, no, no, this exposure thing is not where it's at. You should be healing. You must heal This is all based on healing now maybe for that person or people like that that was their personal experience I get that and maybe if I was healing from trauma I might have a little bit more of an affinity for the trauma narrative also But the fact of the matter is if we take our own personal experience out of it Because I have to take my personal experience out of it to some degree Then you look at which just goes on in the real world in therapy rooms all over the world We see that even though I might want everything to be a shamanistic healing problem. It's simply not so Hopefully that helps You know, I would love it if everything was a cognitive behavioral just do exposures problem But it's it's not it's just not if you had a terrible relationship with your dad And he treated you very poorly that has nothing to do with floating accepting an exposure There are overlapping concepts and healing But I would be ludicrous for me to insist that you had to do this thing to handle that problem so Let's see. Good to see you again. Sean. Hope everything is going okay Let's see what Bethany has to say. Okay. This is good, too Um that healing is an ideology that not everyone agrees with even people with trauma don't necessarily agree on the whole healing thing And sometimes there are semantics there too. The word healing has multiple multiple meanings for sure We attach the word healing to pain and trauma or abuse emotions. That's valid That's a real use of the word that counts But we also attach healing to the idea that something is broken or there's a wound or there's an illness So I definitely don't think that that anything is broken when we're talking about things like panic disorder or health anxiety Nothing is broken Just that we're not working the way where we should be working given context So but on the other side if you want to go back to the emotional and pain stuff then the word healing does apply So it's tough man. This is it's it's really tough There's no there's no set answer to this. I keep coming back to that. There's no set answer So let's see Hello, Lisa. I can actually see your name I wonder if that you know what I see everybody's name. I wonder if restream has changed Is anybody in the facebook group? Just give me a wave if you're watching in the facebook group Because suddenly I could see lisa's name when I used to not be able to see it Who knows Broken and disordered aren't the same thing healing and learning aren't the same thing They can overlap a bit, but they aren't the same thing a dog who's afraid of the stairs is not broken This is is good. I understand the simplification. I see that you're trying to catch it We're certainly not dogs. I get it but in the same vein You're right. It's it's really um That's what i'm looking for sometimes the mental health community, especially online gets so caught up In the idea of soothing and the idea of validating and again, I'm cynical about this but I think Sometimes soothing and validating is really good Online because it's the thing that leads to clicks and follows and likes and all of those things Right, so it is it's that so if I wanted to be much larger than I am on instagram I would talk a whole lot more about how hard anxiety is and I would try to validate that it's it's impossible And we need more awareness and nobody understands us. I would just talk about that all day So unfortunately that narrative is more popular in terms of algorithmically friendly to social media algorithms But it doesn't mean that it's the only narrative and um And I keep coming back to the idea that it is no black and white sucks Let's see What does leola don't think you can get him an anxiety server without Without first tag me. I'm guessing that would be a two point Don't think you can't don't think you can and again So see so in viola's world. Maybe you feel like you you can't like hey nat good to see you My friend natalie is here natalie is a therapist also here on long island and we have known each other Since predating the anxious truth panic station days. Hey nat good to see you pop in So in some people's eyes. No, no, I really have to heal my trauma in order to do take care of my anxiety disorder And if you if you think that then yeah, the answer would be yeah, totally You should you then you could go down that road. You got to do that work too nothing wrong with that So let's see here um We keep going It's good always good comments On the days when I feel really anxious can't see both the couch I'll throw this up here I wish I could heal the talk the text feature on my damn phone Says gbg. Let's see on days where I feel really anxious and I can't seem to get off the couch What do I suggest doing? This sucks and I always hate answering the question this way, but that's the day that you have to get off the couch It's really hard because the the nicer answer or the answer most people want to hear is take a self-care day You know just just be kind to yourself and you do always have to be kind to yourself Always be kind to yourself never be mean to yourself. That's true But that's the time when it's most important to get off the sofa in the context of recovery from an anxiety disorder On the day when you just can't seem to get off the couch That's the day that it's most important To to get off the couch It doesn't mean you get off the couch and and fly around the world It doesn't mean you get off the couch and and drive 600 miles away It doesn't mean you get off the couch and paint your whole house But it means you get off the couch and accomplish something that you think would be impossible to do right? It's really important Um, so hope that helps lorena And I know the struggle sucks Um, let's keep going here. I just feel that it is individual based on each person. Yeah, 100% right 100% That's what you're saying. There's no there's no direct answer here There's no there's no black and white answer that replies in every situation Is there healing involved? Sometimes there is and if there is And you know you need to do that you got to do that like you have to do all the work I've said it all the time all the work has to get done not just one or the other in many instances um Let's see here. Is it bad? That's a huge comment. Let me answer billy really quickly a little off topic But it's a question Is it bad behavior to write down? When I get an anxiety wave and try to keep track of times That's not a thing that I would recommend so billy garland is asking Is it a good idea to write down when I get anxious? Like when I have a big spike or a panic attack so I could try and figure out what caused it If you are afraid of having a panic attack then I would not advise you to try to track down by writing down your panic What caused it because what generally caused it is that you're afraid to have a panic attack So we're always in a conversation where the anxiety is the source of the anxiety You're panicking about panicking. You're afraid to be afraid. You're anxious about being anxious So the idea that you should try to track that so that you can So you can figure out what triggers your panic attacks I would posit that if you're watching me, there's a good chance and only somebody in person a therapist can tell you this by the way um, but There's a really good chance that the last panic attack is what triggered the next one The last big anxiety spike is the trigger for the next one So writing it down to try and decipher what it what did I think that's very old school cbt Like keep a thought record. What was I thinking when I panicked? Well, I was probably thinking. Oh, no, am I gonna panic? So no, I wouldn't necessarily I wouldn't necessarily do that so um Take the addiction away from them move it over to soothing voice Okay, I'll throw this up here. I mean, I don't know. You know, I I got snarky yesterday I don't get snarky today too much but Um, they take the addiction away from the anxiety and move it over to soothing voice It's an easy trick to fall for it could be. I mean, I get it. It is nice to be sued. I get it Everybody wants to be sued. There's nothing wrong with it, but we have to be careful that it isn't the only thing we're doing Um Let's see here Hello stacey I am very confused. I'm gonna turn this heater off because now it's too warm. I know There you go much better. It's getting hot in here, but I'm just sort of rimshot the comments really I am very confused with what I should be doing. I'm seeing everywhere to heal anxiety need to regulate my nervous system So I'm spending a lot of time doing this. It's not working Well, stacey, that's that's I'm gonna do a podcast episode on either I'm gonna do it on mine or we're gonna do it in in the new podcast that I've been talking about That regulating the nervous system thing I am not a fan and I and I will give you a very here's the 30 second explanation in terms of my take A nervous system regulation as somehow a fix or a cure for an anxiety disorder If you notice let's take panic attacks for instance if you see that A majority more people will have panic attacks in their adult life than won't have them and when we see that 20 something million people reasonable estimate in the united states alone adults in the next 12 months will have At least one panic attack and then we notice that only two or three percent of them will develop panic disorder We start to see that while we don't like this and I understand that we don't like it Being afraid being triggered even having panic attacks having weird thoughts are just parts of being human Like humans do those things human bodies do those things We tend not to want them to do those things. We don't get to decide that they won't though So in many instances the idea that you have to regulate a nervous system that was not designed to be regulated And isn't actually doing anything that that even can be regulated I think since people on a lot of wild goose chase Because when you have the bigger anxiety spike and the regulation tools don't work You're in an even bigger tizzy So again, if we look at people who stop trying to activate their vagus nerves Who stop trying to activate their parasympathetic nervous systems? If we look at people who stop trying to regulate their nervous systems and sort of take that cognitive behavioral approach that we talk about It seems that their nervous systems magically begin to regulate themselves I can't like how can you argue with that? It's really hard to argue with that So I do get That it might seem like really and this was way more than 30 second answer wasn't it? I'm not gonna Why do I put timeframes on my words that I'm always wrong? But while it might seem like good advice Oh, I'm gonna teach you how to regulate your nervous system If you rub your neck you'll activate your vagus nerve and you try all these things and then you wind up like Well, it doesn't really work or may it worked once or twice But if I get really anxious then it that doesn't work I say we we have to kind of stop doing that Because if your body is doing what bodies normally do when they are afraid Is the problem of your body or is the problem that you are afraid of what your body is doing? And does is that a nervous system regulation problem? I will posit that in most cases it is not it is not And I think that in our community the idea of nervous system regulation gets jammed and hammered and hammered and hammered And sometimes it causes more problems than it solves So in the end there's more than one way to regulate a nervous system I will also put out put that out there How could it possibly be that tapping things rubbing things eating certain things breathing certain ways? Is the that's the only way to regulate a human nervous system? Like it only exists internally. There's no interface with the outside world in your experience. That seems crazy So we can we can if you do want to go down a regulation road There are a lot of ways to try and regulate a human being a lot So just say it Okay, there was a rant Let's see um That's because you're doing it in hopes of going away You have actually other things I'd be in focus in everyday living I'm not sure what's I don't understand the conversation that's happening there But this is true. Tony what you're saying you do have to let the anxiety be there to focus on everyday living We have to be careful that we don't grossly oversimplify it, but that is that is generally a true statement Um, I've never had any trauma, but I had a major disorder. I became disordered to watch the movie ghost ship Okay, so people here are talking about this ghost ship movie. I could see this um I've never seen ghost shift. I read flame is saying wow. I'm never watching that um The opening scene started at 20 year old anxiety disorder. I'm totally pathetic I kind of feel like I want to watch it now, but this sounds like a very interesting conversation. Um I will put this up on the screen sway dogs. That's a good screen name. That's a really good screen name sway dogs Um, and why where does sway dogs come from? So the answer are you cured? I don't mind being asked this question This is this question is either two things it is either somebody trying to catch me because I might have a panic attack now And then so they will therefore say well see you're you're bullshit. You're lying. You're a scammer because you have panic attacks I don't think that's what this is because they recognize sway dogs. Dude. I don't think you're doing that um Am I cured the definition of cured is where this starts to become a problem. I literally never think about anxiety I write that which just sounds ridiculous. I'm literally doing a live stream I've been talking for 30 minutes to 70 people or whatever in the room about anxiety But I never think about my own anxiety never I I will experience anxious days. I can even have a panic attack a couple of times a year maybe But I literally never consider my own state of anxiety It can exist. I can feel it. I can acknowledge it I can work with it, but I never I am never concerned about my own anxiety my own anxious state or possible panic attack ever Even after and you can tell me that I'm lying here But anybody who's in the room who has gotten to this level and the many many people like me will corroborate this If I have a panic attack today, it's maybe maybe I'll have a panic attack now. I don't know it's possible But when that panic attack is over and I I feel shaky for a half hour So because that's just what bodies do after that once that's all over I am literally not thinking about panic anymore I'm not worried that it will happen again. I'm not planning. I'm not trying to figure out what caused it I'm not trying to stop it from happening. So is that cured I I never say cured because cured implies never anxious and never panicking But I would call that recovered And yes, I am I am 100% recovered because Nothing in my life Nothing in my life is controlled or influenced in any way by a state of anxiety fear or panic Nothing zero. I live a life completely free of anxiety related restrictions Doesn't mean I always make great decisions, but none of them are based on anxiety. I hope that helps um Let's see here And again in that situation I hear that argument and you you can disagree It's totally fine. I actually don't need anybody to agree with me on that in I was asked am I cured I live a life that has literally no restrictions that are based on fear or anxiety None So you can say that I'm not cured and that would be totally fine You can say that if you want, but I don't know a better definition of cured I can't think of a better definition And if you want it to say well, you might have a panic attack. So that means you're not better Okay, I just don't think it's that important Um, yeah panic attacks versus panic disorder. We've talked about that. Okay, so let's keep going um Let's see what sue has to say here Well, counselor dug up all trauma from my past that can happen So now I'm forced to deal with that. I'm supposed to start EMDR next week. Hopefully that will help me process that quickly Well EMDR So EMDR certainly holds some some promise and a lot of people like to use it in trauma recovery And you know what that can happen. Sometimes stuff comes up that we didn't want to come up And let me address that really quickly Sometimes there really is hidden pain like I I'm not denying that that is true It's just the assertion that everybody has pain that is hidden and must be uncovered That's where we run into a problem. It's that black and white thinking but sue hang in there. I know if that's not easy work Um Let's see here. Everybody's telling me to watch this movie. I might have to do that Uh, let's see here. Yeah, EMDR is really very widespread used in trauma recovery these days It's essentially a method that lets you sort of go through those re re-experiencing Circumstances while remaining sort of connected to the present as opposed to being transported back to the experience So it's got some stuff But there's also some interesting data on EMDR that even when you take away the eye movement thing that's supposedly bilateral stimulation thing it still Works so there's a lot of a lot of things we don't really know and like how it works We don't really know but it seems to people seem to have good luck with it. So hang in there sue I did a four hour exposure at a friend's yesterday says brian murphy the last hour more Tightthroat and choking a lateral happened, but then I had to A few tears afterwards. I managed to stop after 10 minutes feeling low. Okay. Well, that's pretty common. Hang in there billy It's a big come a brian a brian. It's a big comment. So we'll cover the whole screen, but Feeling low after the exposure. I presume that's common. Well, you're gonna feel tired It will definitely like tire you there's no doubt about it You might feel a little shaky because you're still in that point where you don't want it to happen again But it sounds like you did a really good job, dude So like don't forget how well you did there and try and take the experience Forward with you like all the times in that four hours that you wanted to run But you didn't for four hours, man. That's amazing Like give yourself a lot of credit for that pat yourself on the back And it's okay to have your mood go up and down after a negative experience And there is some negativity in that for sure you'll feel a little down. That's okay Just try and can reconnect to the good part and build on that. It's okay. Good job, man. Really good job Um panic attract is how I met my wife So good. So good. Um Let's see What else do we have here? I think we're at the end of the comment section and we're only 36 minutes in that's okay. That's okay It wasn't a big one comment this day. Uh, can you please help me out? Oh facebook user that means you're in the facebook group I've been suffering with anxiety disorder for 20 years due to an abusive relationship. Okay. Well, let's throw that up on the screen I'm very sorry. I can't see your name because you're in the group and restrain doesn't show me your name And i'm very very sorry that you're dealing with that So in this situation where you could see like you were in an abusive relationship I've been to many therapists self-help. How do I start off on the path to recovery? This is a tough one because in this one we know for sure that there are multiple things going on at the same time So you have to kind of ask what were those therapists asking you to do or what was their approach to this? What were you hoping to get out of that? This is a complicated topic. I wish I could tell you exactly This is what you do But what I can tell you is that the common thread in both situations. You're welcome, brian. Hang in there, buddy. You did a good job um The common thread here in both of these situations I have an anxiety disorder and I come from an abusive background Is that even in the abusive background? You learn that Those memories can be memories and they don't have to be sort of hearing out re-experiencing or flashbacks into those things and because you were safe unsafe then Does it mean you are now and you do that by kind of working through those bad memories and seeing like oh I feel really unsafe, but oh look I learned that I really am so there actually are overlaps there Just that you have to be careful on how you do it and there are nuances And it really depends on your specific situation So what I can tell you is that there is a way to get better It's just really hard to tell you do this this here step one two three four It's really hard to say in the end all of it Does come down to the idea that you have to sort of risk That that theory that you're not safe because your body feels like something is wrong with it when it's never been So you risk it to learn that it's you've been wrong about that And the same thing with sort of reliving some of those abusive memories I'm very sorry that you had to live through that that is not like cool Hang in there hang in there um Let's see I'll throw this up real quick here Did I miss a question somewhere carol? Did I miss a question? I'm sorry. I didn't I haven't seen everything in the comments I'll throw this one up really quickly and then carol if I missed a question throw it throw it in there I'll scroll up to is there a buddy group in New York City where people can meet up to do exposure therapy together well in this situation the answer to that is don't know and There's a double-edged sword in exposure buddies, right so Even trained therapists are often reluctant to do exposures Right often reluctant to do exposures. So I think There's a reason for that they because they get a little worried that they're going to damage their clients Or they're they're worried that they're going to traumatize or retraumatize. So on a they understand the theory behind it They're they do understand that it's useful But they worry because on a personal level it seems desaceful to them, right? So if therapists get nervous about that, right and people who really kind of specialize in this thing that I'm talking about Are a little bit of a rare a special breed because we will push you into those uncomfortable situations Knowing that it is actually safe for you to do that when you buddy up with somebody and you're not working Under supervision Sometimes that can backfire like exposure buddies sometimes becomes reassurance buddies. They sometimes become You know soothing buddies they can sometimes become it's okay buddies So it's it's always great to have people to share the struggle with but it's it doesn't always work out so good Because there's it's counter-intuitive in a lot of ways. I hope that helps you at least conceptualize that So if there is a comment that I missed This is the third week Okay, I'm sorry. I did not see that I did not I did not see that carol. Do I need to be healed from ms to recover from anxiety? um Oh, I see why So here's here's a bit of a hint carol for you or for everybody else in the beginning of these live streams I am generally not watching right so the format We always follow as I'm going to ramble at you guys for 12 or 15 minutes and then I'm going to go into the comments So if you jump into the stream and immediately throw a question out, there's a really good chance I might not see it because I'm in the middle of sort of the lecture part of it But the answer to and good job. Thank you for repeating it and thank you guys for pointing at that I miss carol's question. Do I need to be healed from ms to recover from anxiety? I can't tell you that like There is the fact that you have multiple sclerosis, which is absolutely 100 a challenging situation that will trigger anxiety There's no doubt about it But then there's the part where you are then afraid of the anxiety itself That's the part that we care about right So is ms a stressful thing? Of course it is is ms going to cause you some worries some anxiety some some uncertainty feelings of vulnerability Of course it will but the part that we care about is the part where If you get anxious, even if it's because of your health challenge, you then also get afraid of the anxious state itself That's the part we care about So do I have to heal from ms to get better to recover from anxiety? Well define recovery Right, nobody here can teach you to never be anxious ever again, especially in your circumstance But but we can point at and you can point at having a more productive or a less damaging relationship with that anxious state Which kind of doesn't have anything to do with the ms, which I know is a it's you know, it's a Progressive disorder. It's a progressive disease. You can't you're not going to heal from it. You can control it I know there's a lot of good work being done in ms and carol. I don't know your specific circumstance But you have to really look at what you you're defining as recovery So hopefully that helps in the ideal world You might still be anxious because of the health challenge that you're facing which is real and legitimate But you don't have to have that maladaptive relationship or response to the anxious state itself All right, that's really hard to say and I would love love love to be able to give you a definitive answer But I I don't know your specifics. I certainly don't know the state of your ms Nor am I a physician nor am I qualified to comment on ms So hopefully that helps clarify it a little bit So there you go There was one other that I saw come in something about aging. Where is it? Here we go, michelle. Hello. Hello, michelle Aging brings along new panic anxiety symptoms. Okay. Well, you're welcome carol. No problem There's a really good comment michelle because if wow, I have to look over the comment It brings new anxiety symptoms that human body changes. Okay to feel scared and cry. That's that's true You're unique to sort of improve on its own time with help. Good. I love it. Um You're right and sometimes that is true like as we age things change a little bit like our bodies change symptoms more If it's why we don't play symptom whack-a-mole because they're going to change over time anyway But thank you, michelle is very it's very kind and supportive comments I appreciate you putting it out there and franklin says the idea of being cured can also feel different kinds of Obsessions. Yeah, that's a hundred percent true. Sometimes that cure thing could be like am I fixed now? Am I cured? I got to find the cure. So two comments very good Very good. Very good. Um I'm doing exposure therapy. Where are we? All right. This is the last one I'm doing exposure therapy with showering, but every time I do this I get chest tension, which is terrifying That's why so this is that flippant thing where sometimes I'm not so popular That's correct. You are literally doing the showering not to shower You're doing it to trigger the that uncomfortable feeling So charise the one of the most important things you can do is stay connected to why you're doing the exposure The shower is not the exposure. I know you think it is, but it's not the shower It's what happens to you when you take the shower So when you when that triggers that chest tension, that's actually what you want to happen You're taking a shower to trigger the things that you're afraid of in the shower You're not afraid of the shower. You're afraid of how you're going to feel in the shower That's an important thing And so remember that you want that sensation to be triggered Because what you can do about it is to let it be triggered and you have to learn I know it seems risky because it seems dangerous to you But like I'm going to have to just let this be and finish my shower And get out of the shower and dry off and get dressed even though I am terrified that something is wrong with my heart I know that's a huge ask, but that is the concept behind it. What to do about it or overcome it I know you're hoping I'm going to say, oh, here's how to stop it from happening Or this is the specific thing you do But there is no such advice and just always remember that the shower is meant to trigger the discomfort and for anybody else That's doing any kind of exposure work Always remember that that if you are triggered during an exposure, that's exactly why you do the exposure to get triggered um I'll talk about that in a podcast episode very soon called like why would you not be triggered because It gets really uh, josh Fletcher today talked about self-criticism People often will declare failure because they get triggered in exposure But we do the exposure to intentionally get triggered. So don't forget that Anyway, all right guys, this has been a good one I appreciate all the comments and I appreciate you guys being so nice to each other and supporting each other And thank you everybody for rallying around carol so that I got to actually see her Question that was really great of you guys. I so so appreciate that This will stay on my youtube channel as always you can go back and rewatch it a million times Everything is in a playlist called recovery monday and um, yeah, that's it If you have questions or comments usually on tuesdays and fridays, I loop through Um, I loop through youtube for comments and stuff. So if you have questions post them, I'll come back and try to answer them I'm pretty sure I'll be back next week at some point recovery monday depending on this new project that i'm involved with Might become at every other monday thing but for for now it's an every week thing. So I will see you guys next week Thanks for coming by