 Please, people on the back, come closer. We have a lot of exciting stuff to talk about, I guess. Lukas, many people, luckily, after delivery hero IPO, now know this small German startup worth six, well, almost 7 billion euros. And you as the founder, or one of the founders of that. But I think interesting would be to learn what else have you done in Germany and elsewhere in Europe in the tech industry. OK. So first of all, thank you. And hello, everybody. It's great to be here. It's a really cool light. So what did I do? I started a company selling t-shirts in Germany, called SpreadShirt. Some of you might know it. In Germany, it's pretty known. Some of you might know it here. So basically, an e-commerce company, it's still around, still doing well. And then I've been part of helping to build the German or European tech ecosystem. So I started venture capital firms, started a tech magazine called Gründer Szene in Germany. Invested in many companies. I've been a very active angel that around 100 angel investments, and also started a few e-commerce companies. Yeah. One of those, the team Europe, I can probably call as company builder. Apart from designing their own flag for European Union that I heard team Europe have did, there were also a lot of the companies that you have started there. And I wonder, this company building business model, it went through its ups and downs. Some people are pissed off. Some people like it. What is your current thinking? Would you advise entrepreneurs to team up with company builders? Yeah, so first of all, talking about DeliverHero again. So DeliverHero, one of the founding stories of DeliverHero, and there are many founding stories in DeliverHero, partially because of it's a roll up. So one of the strengths of DeliverHero is to teaming up with entrepreneurs and local markets and growing the whole thing together. So there are many entrepreneurs and many founders in DeliverHero, and this is part of its success. And one of those founding stories actually is the story of team Europe, where we had a Berlin based so-called company builder, where we set ourselves the goals. We want to build two companies every year, so like serial entrepreneurship, two companies every year, and each of them had to have the clear ambition and the clear prospect to become worth 100 million two to three years after we started it, so that the project sizes are large enough. And actually one of those companies that we started with was LiefaHeld, was the German version of DeliverHero. And the fact that we did this within this incubator, this company builder, enabled us to be very fast and very agile when it came to internationalization. So imagine you start your successful startup, it's ramping up, numbers are looking good in Germany, but it's still very competitive, so you have to fight your market, you have to be focused. And in such a situation, within the first year, it would be very hard to say like, okay, now we go international. Yeah, would you risk, you would risk of being distracted and not focused, and then neither would Germany nor be successfully international. But as team Europe, as the company builder, we've been able to follow up very quickly with the international version of it, which actually was DeliverHero, which we started together with Niklas. And yeah, and that way, we sort of had best of both worlds. So this is an example where a company builder was very successful, and we have been able to play our strengths. Having said that, today I would be more cautious about company builders, specifically if they're not focused vertically. If you go too broad, I mean like in the last year, and this is one example here slash, the taxi has grown so much, and it got so much, so much bigger. So because of one of the major disadvantages of a company builder is you per definition a little bit defocused, you know? And so I would only advise it if something is vertically focused. And Berlin, Jan Beckerst, the HitFox group, HitFox, Heartbeat Labs, FinLeap, I think. FinTech focus incubator they do, yeah. They have vertically focused incubators, and this is a good approach. So I would recommend, with those, I would recommend to look at it, yeah? As potential founders, as entrepreneurs, or managers to team up with those. And maybe diving into a delivery hero story for a second, I mean clearly Nordic market was something where the company was very strong. When we have invested, I mean many years ago, it was still quite early company. I mean target global. I mean the pitch of the guys was like, look at our amazing metrics in the Nordics. We're going to make the same thing in the other 20 countries of our operations. And that largely was true, but I think when you are looking at the startups, in the Nordic region, you are sort of thinking whether the unit economics, other parameters are so good because of the specifics and the rich customer base, or it is genuinely something very relevant that can be expanded across Europe. What would be your advice for the founders operating in this markets and observing all those interesting economic parameters? You mean if the Nordics are different than other? Yeah, whether they can safely expand to Germany, your home turf, and other countries in Europe. I think this is really a case by, this is really a case by case thing, yeah? So hard to say. I mean like the important point here is like that it was very safe to invest because if you see those international arbitrage, you see the future in other markets, and then you have, on a case by case, you have to compare. I mean with delivery here, for example, we're in the Middle East, we're in Latin America, and some of them are very different, and some of them we learned also lessens the hard way, let's say. For example, China is really hard, yeah? That's interesting, I mean on China, that's the market where delivery here has to pull out. What would you say, I mean would you still advise any of your companies to expand there? Into China, and if so, how? I think together with the joint venture, like this local thing, and it has to be super focused, you have to do it with very strong people there, like team up in a joint venture, and we have not been able to do that, like given the many things that we did simultaneously, so at some point you have to pick your battles. But I think the interesting point is here, like also one or another interesting point is when you look at starting large businesses from Europe, it's like you have to be global sort of. If you want really to play in the top champions league of the tech world, you either have to be American, you have to be US, or you have to be Chinese, so America is like an order of magnitude more than what we have here. China is probably times three to that there, and for us to be able to play, we have to be pretty global. So like delivery here is Middle East, Latin America, some Asia and Europe. Yeah, I mean, and for that, and for China specifically, we have to raise a lot of capital, and delivery here we have raised, I mean over a billion for sure, even more actually. I wonder if any of these stories from early days of the company you can share with the crowd. I heard that you were taking the personal loan from the bank initially to fund the business, or it's all rumors. It wasn't a personal loan. Basically, we had to come up with some financing very quickly, so it's one of those stories where an investor lets you down a little bit. So we had like a financing commitment from one of our investors. He said like, if you do this acquisition, we will give you the money. Then we prepared this acquisition, did this acquisition, which was pretty big for us back then, and everything ready, and we signed the acquisition papers before having the money, yeah? And then he would let us down with the financing. He said like he changed his mind because of whatever, like something unrelated to us. And so we had to come up with a significant amount. Back then for us, significant amount was like, I think 23 million or something. That's very significant amount. 20 days, so I started calling my friends and asking for loans, for short term loans. And what I did, like, and I also gave all the money that I had on my accounts. And then the short term loans to make them very safe, I secured it with all the other assets that I had. So it was sort of like a no-brainer for the people to participate in this very swift financing. Amazing, I mean, a lot of conviction. And I wonder, I mean, these days, beyond Delivery Hero, you have a lot of conviction in the new industries like these flying cars, a volocopter that you are doing. Maybe you can tell everyone a bit more about that and your other recent passions. I can do that. So what can I say about flying cars? Flying is much cooler than driving. I did my pilot license last year and then you fly above the city of Berlin and it's super fast. And then you go back to the airport and then you feel when you go back to the city. And even though I have no traffic there, it's beautiful in Berlin, no traffic lights, you feel like you're crawling. You feel again like a little bit like being a worm. Yeah, so like flying is like dignity to some extent. The problem with that and why nobody likes flying so much, like in small planes, we call it personal aviationists. It's either very dangerous or you need to go to the airport or when it's a helicopter, helicopters solve the problem by brute force. I say like, yeah, helicopter is really like a violent thing. And with the new technologies that we have now, basically multi copters, like people say drones, it's not really drones because of drone would be unmanned by definition. But those multi copters are much more elegant. So like they're relatively quiet, they're super easy to fly compared to a helicopter. Basically the computer flies it for you. Yeah, it's much quieter. I used to say 10 times quieter. It's not really correct that it's 10 times quieter but it's maybe as loud as a bus, not as loud as a helicopter. And yeah, super easy to operate and super cheap. It's cheap to maintain and cheap to buy. So it will be like, it's not like a luxury product anymore. It will be like for everybody. Yeah, and then this is the first time that I do something with hardware regulated. So it takes much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much longer than to launch like some app. I mean, like a Team Europe we used to like start a product within three months. Yeah, the minimum viable product is live. Here we talk like at least three years before you can have a minimum viable product. Yeah, and before it gets mass marketed, you need probably 10 years. But then it's going to be really, really cool. Let's actually play the game, you know, assuming we are slushed 2027 right now and you are getting out of the door to the city of Helsinki. I mean, what do you see there? Like what are the flying cars, you know, the robots on the streets describe it to us? First I... Your vision. I go out and then first I see darkness. It will be a little bit buzzing. I mean, when you look at the modern skyline today, Shanghai or whatever, I've been a couple of weeks ago, I've been to Shanghai. So I picked this as an example. It feels pretty empty. I mean, something is missing almost like within this skyline. So it's going to be buzzing a little bit. But before it's buzzing a lot, I don't know, like 20, 30 years, probably. Yeah, let's... What about the delivery? I mean, all the fedoras and deliverers of this world. I mean, the business, we know well. Would it be robots doing it instead? I mean, it has to be super safe and it has to be quiet. But yes, there will be delivery drones, yeah? There will be delivery drones. They might be... I don't know, like the advantages of those products are so high, both for personal aviation as well as for drone delivery, be it on the ground or through the air. Those products are so... The advantages are so high that the regulation will follow because of it's just so useful. And we see some of the early applications today and let's see when it's going to take off. And as an entrepreneur, I'm very excited about this whole new field. There's a whole ecosystem around it. You can think landing rights, air traffic control, sense and avoid. And it's... Yeah, but in terms of the building the company, I mean, what are the opportunities you would advise people to consider? I'm sure if you would be certain about one opportunity, you would be already building it yourself. But maybe some of them you are not yet certain and considering. So like, I'm not sure what I should build but I should advise other people what to build? Yeah, I mean, that's why they invite you here to speak on stage, you know? Just get in touch with me if you're interested in this field and let's discuss now. So I'm personally sort of still learning, still evaluating, it's fascinating. So what about what I just said? Like sense and avoid is one, air traffic control is one. There will be landing rights, there will be software around it, like guidance software. I mean, a specific approach is to sense and avoid. I backed one with a small co-investment in a company in Silicon Valley called Skydio. They take your approach where they really put a lot of computers onto a drone so they're really fast, there's a lot of computing power up there and can do AI sense and avoid in real time. What would you say, like, where should we as Target Global, which I'm also part of, that's really awesome. I was about to ask you, I mean, not to make any advertisements there, but we had a privilege of you joining our firm in Berlin and also European wide to invest. And I wonder, I mean, whether you as a founder would advise other people doing the same thing, because you are investing as an angel otherwise as well. What is the benefit really of sort of investing professionally? The benefits of investing professionally, I have to think hard about that. Only downsides, isn't it? No, I mean, like, obviously, you have much, many more resources and the investment is much more diligent. So at some point, with some ticket sizes, you have to do it. You have to be professional. Also given that, like, the development of the whole scene in the last years. So, like, to do, like, all the nitty-gritty work and the operations, plus the advantages of being within a platform, being able to compare notes. And last but not least, also having the financial firepower. Some of the deals that we say is, like, that we see. Yeah, I mean... I say, like, strong capitalization sometimes can be a self-fulfilling prophecy for success. And this is also, like, part of the delivery hero story. It was that, like, once it was clear that this is a strong model and all of that, it comes down to, like, who has the better fundraising and who is faster with fundraising? And also for us, as Europeans, we want to play the global game with the U.S. With the U.S., with China, it's about, like, having strong capitalizations. Yeah, maybe to sort of answer your previous question, I think if you just look at the things we have done, you know, both together and, you know, at Target recently, a lot of insurance, a lot of small business, you know, focused companies. And, of course, you know, everything related to mobility and, you know, the robots and that kind of things, you know, probably we should be doing some of the blockchain and cryptocurrencies, but we did only some again. We should also do CRISPR, augmented reality, everything that's super new, right? On the other hand, you have to pick our battles and the same that goes for the company builders, goes for venture capital. Either you have some USP, like you're super big or you're really the biggest, I don't know, your division fund or whatever. And this is your USP. Or, like, going vertical is a good idea and, like, focus on one or, like, on a few but then really be an expert in those. Maybe a couple of questions, you know, to wrap up the discussion. As a founder, as a young founder, how would you stand out from the crowd? You know, 20,000 people at Slush. What would you do? How do you stand out as a young founder? Unlimited possibilities, I don't know. You could jump on stage now that would be standing out. But, ideally, you have some good product, something exciting to show or to demo. Okay, fair enough. Why is good, you know, to be in Europe these days and start a startup here rather than somewhere else? Why is good to start a startup in Berlin, for instance? Where is your home turf? I think combination of, like, talented talent and affordable talent and there's still less competition than compared to some places in the world, like the Silicon Valley, yeah? And also, the advantage is, like, the really strong startups, they have something unique. I don't know, like, I'm looking no more in this technology space, so they will come from some Frau and Hofer Institute, Max Planck Institute, so, like, adjacent to the research institute. And this is something that you cannot copy. So I see, like, more, yeah, more teaming up with those people who come really from product, like, engineering, and then those, like, let's call it, like, career entrepreneurs who want to embark on this career. And here, I also hear that, like, that the Europe and our ecosystem is upping the game. That means that, like, when, like, 10 years ago, the brightest financial or business-minded people wanted to go to investment banking or consulting to pay entrepreneurship. Not that popular anymore. Entrepreneurship is more often the top choice. So it's great, and this is why we're all here, and we celebrate entrepreneurship and technology and the future because of one important thing to know is the future, the future is the future. All right. Let's clap our hands for entrepreneurship and locus and the future, huh? Guys. Thank you. Thank you, man.