 So I just posted that our screen sharing for today is not working. I've moved to a different machine. I'm working from home today because of the coronavirus. So we have a version issue on my local machine. So it's preventing me from sharing for some reason. It's very strange, but things like that happen. Yeah, are you using a Mac? No, I'm on a Linux box, which generally always has been working. And I think this latest version of Zoom for some reason has a sensitivity to Wayland. It's a display manager basically. But anyway, so I did, for everyone on the call, first of all, good morning. It's the top of the hour. I did send out the link to the agenda. It's in the chat. So we'll have to follow through sort of the old style way. So apologies for that. And it is the top of the hour, so we'll get started. And we'll just have to sort of grind through it this time around. I'm sure I'll find a fix for this after the fact. So first of all, thanks and good morning. Yeah, we are sort of working in an odd environment here. Because of coronavirus, I'm working from home. So this is a little bit of an odd environment. First off, we do record this. We are recording. And so please keep that in mind at all times. Off of the agenda, I'd like to suggest that you take a look at the antitrust policy notice. That's the second or third item right off the list. If you read through that antitrust policy, what that really says is be a good person. There's a URL link with additional antitrust details for Linux Foundation. If you want to read the scrutinize the policy itself, feel free to do so. As well, if you're fairly new, it's always great to have you introduce yourself and sort of looking through the list. We have maybe a couple of folks. And if they'd like to introduce themselves now would be a great time. So good morning. To anyone who'd like to introduce themselves. Yeah, I can start. Hello, everyone. My name is Ruben. I am a master's in nursing informatics at Duke University. And I joined the call mainly because I have a project that involves blockchain. I also am a novice nurse informatics. I work for the Florida Department of Health. Oh, outstanding. And where are you from, Ruben? Oh, I'm in Tallahassee, Florida. Oh, excellent. Great to have you on the call. And say again a little bit more about your involvement with blockchain again. Oh, I was, I have a paper that I do at the end of semester. And my topic was about blockchain standardization. So I'm really curious. This is the first time I've really looked into it. So I'm pretty much just observing and see what I can do to help. Outstanding. Well, thanks for joining us on the call. And just listen very carefully going forward because we'll go through the subgroups and some of the subgroup work that's being done might be exactly something that you want to sort of take a look at and maybe get a little bit more involved in. It may help some of the work that you're doing. So great to have you on the call. And thanks very much appreciate it. And then just as a reminder for folks that are getting on the call just now, I have to apologize. Our screen sharing is not working yet. We have a bit of a technical issue. As I mentioned, we're dealing with the coronavirus here in Seattle area. And so I'm working from home. And so of course, there's always some fun issues to deal with. So I did post the link to the agenda in chat. So please feel free to follow along as we move through that agenda. Okay, anyone else on the call would like to introduce themselves. Okay. I do see a fairly new name Tomomi. Did you want to introduce yourself? Oh, very good. And where are you calling from? Oh, excellent. Great to have you on the call. And do you have a specific interest in black chain technologies? Oh, excellent. Okay. Well, very good. You may want to listen a little bit about the patient subgroup work that's going on. Dennis will be talking about that just in a little while. But that's work that their his team is doing. And so yeah, you may want to get a little bit more involved with with the work that Dennis is doing. And great to have you on the call and welcome. Thank you very much. Okay. All right, I think everybody else, I generally recognize. So great to have you. So just as a reminder, if you haven't already, we do have a membership directory, feel free to make make use that membership directory. It's great to see that it's gotten a little bit longer over time. It's a great opportunity for folks to contact one another directly and and find ways to connect either socially or for business reasons through that. So feel free to make use of that as well. If anyone has questions, particularly those of you that are new, we have an FAQ so that the fact is available as well as part of our group here. With that said, we have some I'd like to walk through some community announcements. And we have some very interesting things happening over the past week, of course. And so we'll get to that as well. So the the hyperledgic global forum is just finishing up. I think today is the last day. I believe John, John Walker was there. I think you were representing the HCC. John, did you want to give us a little bit of a rundown? Sure. So it was a very good conference. I was able to attend from Tuesday through Thursday evening. And I think there was certainly some attendance impact, I think with the coronavirus, but thought it was still very well attended. It was my first global forum. And there's, you know, a good array of technology presentations, as well as some focus on governance and inclusivity. So that was actually very interesting. And then I think from internally within hyperledger, there was discussions about how to level, if you will, the maturity ratings across the projects as some of these, you know, some of the interesting initiatives are really getting traction in industry. So that was a, that was very interesting as well. I did a, there was a special interest group kiosk that I attended for the healthcare special interest group and in particular the patient group. And so we were, that was good. You know, I could say, you know, a dozen or so folks talking, talking with them for a couple of sessions and David Boswell was there supporting us. You know, it was a really good session. I think the, from a technology perspective in healthcare, I thought the Aries group, which is basically a credentialing blockchain that sits on top of Indy was there's some very interesting work there coming out of the British Columbia. And as well as there's a secure T computing SGX Intel has, and that I think could have some very good, some positive ramifications in, in the, in the healthcare area where the data is so, so sensitive. And so these, these secure enclave computing is, is, you know, could be worth investigating. So I talked to a couple of those folks and invited them to both the, you know, the overall healthcare SIG as well as the patient subgroup and help, you know, more, more to, more to come on that. Excellent. Thanks, John. So tell me a little bit more, you mentioned there's a focus on governance and inclusivity. Explain more about what the inclusivity sort of aspect of that means. Well, the inclusivity I think was within the open source community. I attended just one of the, the breakouts and then Brian Ballendorf also talked to in a keynote about it and just basically making sure everyone is aware is part of the community to, you know, to be inclusive and to be, you know, is a part of an open source. It is also an open community. And just to, you know, be certain careful of our biases and open to, you know, both cultural and technological differences. So I think that was, again, I, you know, just picked up those, those are the bullets that I took away from it, but there's definitely, I think, within the hyper ledger community, a direction for us all to, you know, keep it a very open community both culturally and technologically. Ah, okay. And, and as that sort of the governance component of it as well, or was that a different sort of focus or emphasis? Well, my take was that the governance is, was different than the governance is, you know, as applied to blockchain or distributed ledger technologies, right? They're very to, even though, you know, a lot of the presentations were, had a technical focus. The reality of making these, you know, blockchains operational is to, you have to have a mature governance policy that works on and off the blockchain. And so there was just notes that, you know, it's a function of these technologies becoming more mature and actually, you know, being implemented that the operational realities include governance. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense to me. Yeah. And, and I'm happy to hear that governance is being discussed because that was something that came out of last year's HIMS conference. And it's really nice to see that that's maturing over this past year in part to your point. A lot of folks realize the value of specifically DLT, but just don't, you know, don't know yet what the proper way to manage these solutions over time. And so that, you know, the questions that came out last year's HIMS was what's governance policy look like? And so I brought that up with hyperledger leadership. And so it's good to see that that's finally sort of coming together. And I'm glad that discussion has been sort of continuing, and it's becoming a little bit more top of mind. So right. And you know, you see that, of course, from the vendor side, right? So Accenture is there and IBM is there. And, you know, these are the, and, you know, big vendors that are actually rolling, rolling this stuff out, they have to have those policies in place, you know, for production. Excellent. Oh, good. Rich, this is the wish. I mean, just to add to that, I think there's a lot of focus on the technical pieces and not enough focus on from business standpoint. I mean, I mean, everyone is talking about the POC is more at a technical level than at a business level. And that's what, you know, just directly ties back to the policy and the governance. Without that model, I mean, the technology implementation becomes that much different. Yeah, absolutely, Ravish. Yeah, you're absolutely spot on. So, yeah. And again, very good to hear that this is a topic of discussion, because I think it's something that we've been sensitive to over the past year. And, you know, it's just a natural sort of state of maturation as people understand the technology and begin to implement the technology, they start to realize, well, you know, how do we manage this going forward? If we have to do revision control, how do we do that? And just sort of this natural sort of growth into the technology suite. So, good, very, very good to hear that that's something that's being discussed. Anything else, John? No, I mean, there's, you know, the recordings of the sessions will be, you know, on the hyperledger, on the hyperledger site. And I would suggest for everyone to, you know, take advantage of that. There were some very good talks that you, you know, yeah, just, you know, take advantage of those resources. And I thought David Boswell, at least for our subgroup, did a really good job of supporting us. Oh, excellent. Okay, well, great. And I'll pass that along to David. He's really sort of my primary contact for most of the work that we do through the SIG here. And I know David well, so yeah, I'll be sure to thank him for his hard work. And thank you, John, as well, for representing the healthcare SIG as well at this event. The original thought plan as we sort of segue over was we had the global forum this week. And of course, next week was going to be the HIMS conference, which is a significant healthcare conference. And just yesterday, they canceled. And it's been interesting for us. I was, I was planning to attend really for two reasons. One, I was speaking through Providence Health, which is a fairly large healthcare provider here in the Pacific Northwest, actually West Coast, I should say, West Coast and Texas oddly enough. And then of course, to represent the healthcare SIG, and myself and Brian Bellendorf were going to participate in a social event, specifically for the healthcare SIG. And it was interesting because as the virus, the coronavirus sort of started to spin up, and I'm here in Seattle area, and of course, you know, all sort of scenes to have started here. We noticed that some of the bigger players in at the at the conference were starting to back out very, very cautiously. And not a whole lot of information flowing. So it was almost a regular, almost a daily due diligence to understand, well, who's who's the recent cancellation out of the conference? Oddly enough, him's leadership was very quiet about that. To me, it's a bit disturbing and maybe disingenuous that they were as quiet as they were. And so I had to drop out about a week or two ago for, well, for two reasons, personal reasons, my mother passed away about a week ago. So I was in Chicago for a while. And then also I happened to be immunosuppressed. And so it's always a sort of a tenuous thing to to attend a conference. But with the coronavirus sort of lingering, I decided to back out of that. And I handed over some of my work to a colleague that I know over at Microsoft, David Holding, who I suspect several of you may know. He's very well known in the blockchain space. He was going to do the work for to cover for me. And then, of course, he backed out his team backed out and then Microsoft totally backed out. And so it's been a very interesting process where we witnessed over the past week just sort of this unwinding of participation at the conference. And so finally, and we're very happy to know that I think Kim's leadership did the right thing by canceling the conference entirely. And I could tell you, it was difficult to manage. Oh, so it looks like is that Dennis, are you are you doing some some screen sharing? Oh, Kent, are you screen sharing? It looks like somebody is screen sharing. Oh, thank you, Kent. Excellent. So this is Wendy. I was also scheduled to present at the HIMS conference and I had a week full of meetings booked that week. So I was so disappointed to that it didn't go forward. Not sure how best to make use of all the time that I had spent preparing for my presentation, but I am happy to present to this group so that my efforts don't go to waste. If anyone else was, there are a few people on this call that I was scheduled to meet and I will try to schedule something with you offline next week. My schedule is now wide open. Yes, I know. It's a very odd thing. Well, yeah, I forgot to mention that. In fact, yeah, Wendy, you were going to be presenting at the the blockchain, that sort of black chain, what is it, consortium or that first day. It's a full day event and last year was very popular. I think it was 100%. It just basically sold out and I was planning to attend. In fact, we were hoping to meet at the conference. But you bring up a very good point and I'd love to take you up on it. If you could present here, that would be fantastic and you and I can talk offline. But that would be phenomenal and of course, we'll make use of all your preparation for this special interest group here. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Okay. And so that's kind of where we ended up with the HIMS conference. And so I think what we'll end up doing probably is a lot of our focus will go forward to the next series of health care conferences, perhaps several months from now as the virus sort of comes and goes. We're hoping very quickly and with minimal impact. And so we're just sort of monitoring, you know, this sort of social event very carefully. Okay, any other thoughts or questions regarding the HIMS conference? And if anyone has a community announcement that is in some way blockchain related, particularly health care related, feel free to sort of voice your opinion and make your announcement now. Any thoughts? Hey, Rich, this is Abish. And I'll send this information out as well. There was a recent blog that got published on, I believe, Red Hat and probably will get published at IBM as well in some way or form. There was a blog that was done by my team regarding IBM blockchain and on OpenShift. So I will send that information out. It's on Red Hat blogs, but very good information and kind of a tutorial for anyone to try it out also. Oh yeah, that'd be great, Ravish. Yeah, if you can send that information along. In fact, feel free to send it to full membership. That would be great to share that. I will send it out. Excellent. Thank you. Dick Kamlesh here. Well, good morning. Hello. Yeah, I'm good. How are you? Very good. So actually, Kent is here in the today's meeting and I think we should congratulate him because he just won the Hyperjury India Chapter Heketon winner and he built some kind of pharmaceutical kind of supply chain in using the fabric. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, we'll get to that in just a moment as we sort of transition over to our subgroup updates. Dennis, are you still on the call? I know you need to leave shortly, but did you want to talk a little bit about Kent's win and then an update with the patient subgroup? And you're muted, Dennis, if you're still there. There he is. Thank you. Good morning, guys. Yes, Kent made a great success and he's going to present also the update from his site. I already send it about the latest development from our fabric use case. And another point very important for us is we want to attend to the Transcelerate Heketon in the next weeks. It's really very exciting for all of us. And John's participation at Hyperledger Global Forum is already reported. So these are the points from my site. Unfortunately, I must leave now. Thanks for giving the word for me to be Rich. Sure. Okay. Well, I know you're time constrained. So do you want to hand that over to Kent? And Kent, did you want to talk a little bit more about your welcome? Yeah. For your loss, your mother, I just heard it now. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Kent, did you want to sort of take over for Dennis, maybe a little bit of a summary for the patient subgroup beyond what Dennis has talked about? And then feel free to talk a little about your big win. I mean, great. Thank you, Dennis. Thank you. Thanks, Dennis. So for the patient subgroup, we have our latest update is that the Sawtooth version has matched our architecture expectations. So it was very advanced already. But now Alex, who is responsible for the Sawtooth side has come up with an improved version. And our presentation a while back, we were suggesting a sort of architecture where we can do the patient consent for the register and then we can ask the patient to give consent and then later permit the patient to revoke consent. That has all been achieved now on Sawtooth, I believe. Oh, outstanding. And can I ask, and I don't know if you're the right person to answer, but how has the development experience with Sawtooth been relative to fabric? Well, I've been learning a bit about Sawtooth as well and trying to help Alex with the design. Now, Sawtooth is already relatively straightforward in that it uses a Merkel tree. It's very similar to Ethereum in many ways. And with fabric, we have something called channels. So we can have several different blockchains as in each channel is literally a separate blockchain. So in our patient consent design, we have three channels. So literally, not only do we have three blockchains, but we have three databases accompanying each of those channels. So initially, we asked Alex to look at fabric and say, can you do this in Sawtooth? And it was relatively difficult for him in the beginning because there was only one blockchain and one database. So we asked him, okay, maybe he can literally make three instances of Sawtooth. And I think he has somehow achieved that in the background. Excellent. Okay, very interesting. Yeah, I do know there one of the questions that comes up pretty regularly is, you know, I want to implement a DLT, do I use fabric or do I use Sawtooth? And so I think your team is probably the most recent in having gone down this path. So it's interesting, at least to me, as a proxy for those folks that have asked that question, you know, what's the difference between fabric and Sawtooth from a pure development point of view? So great to know that we have this experience very local. And I would imagine, I'll just put a bug in your ear now for your team. You may want to think about putting together a presentation that focuses specifically on that question, given that we have so many people that have such an interest in answering exactly, you know, what that distinction might be and where the fit is. And so the work you're doing here is going to be very interesting from that perspective. So thanks for that. And yeah, if we can maybe somewhere down the road when you have some time, think about a presentation that focuses on that question, that would be very interesting. Yeah, so the idea was to focus on that specific question, how does fabric compare against Sawtooth in a healthcare sort of setting? And at the moment now, we're trying to refine the front end so that when we enter the data once, it will run in both fabric and Sawtooth at the same time. So in real time, you can see what exactly is happening and perhaps we can try and get some benchmarks in the future. Excellent. Very, very cool. Thank you. And did you want to talk a little bit more about... I'm interested to hear about your win with the hackathon. Thank you. So for the hackathon, there were three categories. One was telecoms, one was track and trace, and the other one was identity. So my team, we chose track and trace, which means supply chain. And because I have a healthcare background, I decided to think about the drug supply chain. Now, typically you would think, okay, you have manufacturing, you have the distributing and the supply, and then at the end, you have maybe a pharmacy or a doctor giving out the medicine to a patient. So not only do we do this forward-looking supply chain, we have some feedback loop where the patient can actually supply some data as well as in adverse effect, maybe some problem with the prescription, some problem with the medicine, with the dosage, any sort of information that the doctor needs to know, the patient can communicate back. And if it was an adverse reaction, then the doctor can then initiate some sort of what we call yellow card adverse reaction documentation for the regulators. So that was a sort of a fabric backend that I created. And my teammate, Master, he created an augmented reality front end. So we used a mobile phone camera to scan a QR code, supposedly on the box of a medicine. So you can scan the codes all the way through manufacturing, through distribution, and then when the patient sees a doctor, the doctor usually gives a prescription. So on the patient side, when the patient scans the final medicine, there will be some details, not only of the drug product itself, but also of the prescription, so that when the patient feeds back, there will be a hash of the prescription and some details of what was actually prescribed. Oh, very, very interesting, very cool. And what are you using for this? What's the... Oh, fabric, okay, thank you. Yes. And SWIFT and AR, Unity at the front end. Oh, very cool. Well, I'll ask the same question. At some point, it'd be great if you might be interested in presenting to the group here. This would be very interesting. Sure. We are thinking in the future of perhaps donating this project code to Hyperledger Labs and perhaps making a use case example, if it might be useful for somebody else in the future. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think that would be a great idea. Thank you. Perfect. And maybe like in the next Hyperledger meeting, we can ask for the demo. Yes, exactly. I was a part of the organizing team of this event. And when I was a part of the screening team of this, all the use cases and the commission. Yeah, I think that... The certificate issued on the... My company's a platform. Yeah, exactly. Kamlesh, I think that's a great idea. And if we can convince Kent to do that, that would be phenomenal. So we can certainly make some space for that. So yeah, I think that's a fine idea. So before I forget, I wish to give my thanks to Kamlesh and the organizing team and the panel of judges as well. Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you. Excellent. Well, again, congrats, Kent. And yeah, we'd love to see a demo in the short term. That would be phenomenal. Thank you. Maybe in the future. Okay, Ravish, did you want to give us an update on the PAIR subgroup? Yeah, sure. So PAIR subgroup, I think we've been, you know, as shared last time, we went to the... From Kent and the team regarding the fabric, the patient consent model that they put together. And last go round, we had Alex present the Sawtooth one. So I think our teams have been collaborating, especially because the POC that we are looking forward on the prescription management is... You know, the consent is going to be an integral part of that. So we thought it might be a good idea to go through that. We will be publishing the process that we are looking at from POC standpoint. I was hoping to get it done before today's meeting, but hopefully either today or over the weekend. And then that's the next discussion we are about to have is go through the use case that we're talking about. And, you know, just like the patient subgroup, we will be starting a POC on the prescription management piece that I talked about earlier. You know, just to quickly, again, we meet every other Friday, not, you know, not, but this, but next Friday and the other Fridays from one to two Eastern time. And, you know, I feel really good, the collaboration that the patient subgroup, as well as the, you know, the PAIR subgroup is doing, because I think those go hand in hand and we are getting a lot of value out of that collaboration. And thanks to the patient in a team as well. Excellent. Thanks, Ravish. Can you tell me again what's happening over the weekend? We are documenting the use case that we are looking at, you know, just like the patient consent. There is a use case that patient team published. We are going to be publishing the prescription management use case that we are looking at from PAIR perspective that we can share across the, you know, the, you know, across the hyper ledger healthcare subgroup so they can take a look at it. If anyone is interested, they are absolutely welcome to join hands with us on that. Excellent. Okay. And so it sounds like you'll have something to show maybe sometime early next week through the PAIR subgroup that defines a little bit more about the work that you are doing. Correct, correct. And I would suggest make it possible the next meeting we can, you know, in the PAIR subgroup update we will probably, you know, kind of quickly summarize the use case and show, just take five, ten minutes if possible to share that information in detail. Oh, sure. That would be great. Okay. Well, thank you, Ravish. I appreciate it. That's a, that's a fine idea. Okay. So regarding the healthcare interoperability subgroup, Stephen is not here. And I'll share a little bit with you that he has had emergency procedure earlier this week. So we had to cancel his most recent subgroup meeting. I'm waiting to hear back from him regarding his health, but we're sort of on hold with that. And then I'll be happy to sort of work with him and we'll provide an update to the, to the SIG, to membership and his subgroup team when he's back online. So our fingers are crossed for hearing that. Okay. So for ad hoc team updates, as always, looking for a confluence expert, we're always looking to find ways to improve our sort of our workspace here, our wiki. So I always put this out. If there's anyone that it has an express interest in, in using confluence, they have, they're very good at it. And they, they look at our wiki and see a need to make changes in the design. Please let me know. The work that we do here for the healthcare SIG would be something that would also roll out to the larger hyper-religion community. We're looking for a level of consistency between, particularly between the special interest groups. And so I always put that out there. So feel free to contact me either now or, or direct through email. I'm happy to sort of follow up with you on that. Okay. And for the use case development team, I don't see Erica on the call this morning. But I do know that we had a meeting about about two weeks ago to sort of reboot this development team. And now this was something originally that Wendy picked up. I think Wendy, we got that going probably sometime last year after the HIMS conference. And I think the HIMS conference at that time had sort of informed us the need for developing use cases around blockchain technologies. I think it was particularly DLT and I think probably at this stage SSI is starting to get a little bit more traction as well. So Wendy kicked off that exercise. Wendy, you want to talk a little bit more about sort of the background on this and then sort of the segue over to Erica's work. Oh, sure. So with inspiration from the HIMS conference last year, you're absolutely correct. We recognized that organizations were looking for condensed information about how blockchain can best apply to their needs. And we identified that they didn't want like decision makers, for example, were not interested in reading full academic articles. They wanted like a three to five page summary that they could bring back in simple language to talk to different other decision makers in their organization. We did an informal survey of this community to determine which areas seem to be the areas for which organizations were asking the most questions. Which uses seem to be the hottest, most pertinent? So with that use reformed kind of an informal subgroup to put together some use cases and to educate and inform in simple language about I'm trying to remember the specific use cases. I thought that was credentialing one. I can't remember. I'm sorry that I can't remember all the use cases. But to put these together under the hyperledger umbrella and make them widely available on the website. Yeah, well, so and I think those use cases were to your point drug supply chain, medical records, and then credentialing was queued, but I don't know if we had somebody who was going to work that. And then and then the payerspace and again that's something that we're still sort of looking for a lead on that. But yeah, and so just to sort of segue from from the work that you sort of kicked off with to the work that Erica and her team are doing. As I mentioned, there was we had a meeting about two weeks ago. I know Dennis Koskin was involved in that. And so we have a couple of use case examples. There's a UML diagram that circulated to try to quantify at least one of the use cases. I think it was drug supply chain. So we are again moving forward, which is great to see. And to your point, Wendy, yeah, this is something that we've come to realize is some something that our those folks that are involved or are interested in using blackjack technologies really want an example, something that they can sort of get their heads around to understand, you know, where the value for blackjack technologies and specifically DLT happened to be. And so it just turns out that use cases happened to be a good sort of vehicle for communicating that kind of information. Oh, absolutely. And I work for a blockchain company now. And we have created use case documents for many of the popular features that we offer. We and for the company that I work for, we had narrowed them down to a double sided page. But we found that was so popular because organizations wanted a simple but straightforward explanation of how this technology can apply to a specific issue that they're dealing with right now. And one of the factors that we found to be very valuable was the strategic value itself, I guess, to be redundant. And to explain to them how they can where where is it value added. And for that, we reference a lot of the materials produced by the World Economic Forum. And for those of you who are not familiar with it, it produces just excellent white papers about decision making about blockchain, some fantastic articles to help organizations determine return on investment, and also how to show and present the drivers, the value drivers to an organization. So, anyway, I am not allowed by my employer to lead any initiatives from Hyperledger, which is somewhat of a competitor. But I will remain active in this space so that I could advise on any experience that will help this group. Excellent. Yeah. And again, thanks, Wendy, for kicking off that use case team. Again, it is something that there's tremendous value in. And so, yeah, you're right. We're just realizing that there are folks that just have expectations. To your point, you make a very good point. It's an easily digestible tool. And as much as people can gain a lot out of academic papers, it doesn't happen as often as it ought to. And so, these use case documents that are a little bit more sort of focused and maybe easier to read seem to be the right way to go. So, again, thank you for that. Just a question to Wendy. Is there the links to those, to the documents and the outline on the, on our wiki, on the healthcare wiki? No, but I can provide them to anyone who's interested. And you can just email me or send me a comment in the chat box. I'm not even sure this is embarrassing to say, but as the company that I work for is updating its website, I don't even think we have them published on our own website. So, but I'm happy to share these with other organizations as my, well, I'm not allowed to formally work for projects for Hyperledger. The CEO of the company I work for, Burst IQ, believes that the rising tide lifts all ships. And as blockchain is an emerging technology in the healthcare space, we all really need to work together for successful communication and to improve the reputation of the term blockchain among healthcare organizations. So, that's the best description of context under which I am operating. So, yeah, please, please send me some information and I'm happy to connect with you. Great, thanks. And I'm just putting in the, in the chat window, a link to the, to our Google Drive, which is where the the HEC use case development team has their documents stored. So there is some stuff that's there that will be interesting and useful for those that have an interest in even perhaps joining this team. And again, Erica typically is on this call. She's, she's leading that now, but it might be interesting for anyone who wants to pursue this to take a look and see what we've got going. And then, of course, Erica will be driving some future meetings going forward. So, again, thanks. Thanks, Wendy. Yeah, and, you know, Wendy has been phenomenal up until, up until you, you moved over to burst IQ and, and understandably, there's a business case to consider there, but you are really phenomenal. And so they're very lucky to have you there. Okay, we, so I, for old business, I generally keep these links sort of refreshed. I have basically healthcare funding opportunities that I post here in general for folks that are part of smaller businesses. You probably want to be aware of what are called SPIRs and STTRs. CBER, or CITR, CBER is a small business innovation research effectively a grant or a, yeah, we'll call it a grant. Whereas a small business technology transfer tends to work with a small business associated with an academic institution. And these are funding opportunities for small businesses. And I think the definition of small businesses is still, I believe 150 persons or fewer. And so I could tell you when I worked primarily in the DoD space, and this was before blockchain, we would respond to CBERs and CITRs periodically. And it's a great opportunity to get involved with the organization of choice. Because the work that I used to do in DoD, it tended to be more military. What I'm providing here is a couple of different institutions that tend to be focused on healthcare, specifically health and human services. These are, these are, with the exception of UNICEF, HHS and NIH, which is National Institute of Health. Both of these are U.S.-based organizations. So I have links coming off of those first two that'll take you to current funding opportunities. Stephen, through the healthcare interoperate subgroup, he and his small business did respond to, I believe it was a CBER opportunity. And so these things do work and they do exist. For the UNICEF innovation fund, that one's a little bit different, that tends to be more of a global opportunity. I believe, and they do have a specific blockchain program. So they are looking for folks against small businesses that are doing work in the space as it relates to blockchain technologies. If I recall, the qualifications for an innovation fund through UNICEF is that you have to be a small business, and you also have to have either a product or approve a concept completed and demonstrable. And so if you are interested in pursuing that, take a look at the details of the link. Again, the link is in the agenda, but it is a very interesting opportunity for anyone that's part of a smaller business. To me, a small business, 150 people doesn't seem very small, but I think those are the qualifications. So it's a fairly large company for being small. Anyway, feel free to take a parse on that. And if you do come across something interesting, I urge you to share that through the rest of the team here. And feel free to kind of take the whole of the HCC membership if something really compelling comes across your desk by way of these links. Any comments or thoughts for these funding opportunities? Okay, and I'm just mindful of time we've got about 10 minutes left. So we do have our membership survey results are out. I have a link again out of the agenda directly to the survey results. Feel free to take a parse on that. In general, I would say there were really not a whole lot of surprises. We do this every year. And so year over year, what I'm looking for are patterns or trends that are really going to drive what our future focuses as a special interest group. I would say just in general that maybe we have a little bit of an uptick in interests in self-sovereign identity relative to past years. The primary primary interest and there should be no surprise in platforms is it continues to be fabric. And Indy and Sawtooth, I think Indy and Sawtooth flipped. I think the number three spot used to be Indy. It's now the number two spot and Sawtooth vice versa. About half of our respondents are out of North America and then Europe and then Asia. I believe that hasn't changed for quite a while. The familiarity with blockchain is about in the three to five year range, which again is probably not too surprising. The one very interesting thing that did come out of it was about three quarters of respondents when asked if they would be interested in blockchain technology presentations or discussions that didn't necessarily focus on the hyperledger brand per se, they said, yeah, I would have no problem if we presented something that was not necessarily specific to hyperledger. And I'll share with you sort of an anecdote. I used to run here out of the Pacific Northwest a hyperledger meetup and about a year or two ago, and we had about a probably about a thousand members at the time, we had asked the same question and I was very surprised that for all people that responded, it was a hundred percent that said, yeah, we are more interested in blockchain technologies and less about hyperledger specifically. So what this really tells me is in both instances, we are still in a learning phase, we're still looking to get an education in understanding blockchain technologies at a general level. And so I'm happy to continue to do so. We tend to generally by virtue of the fact that this is a hyperledger special interest group, we tend to focus on hyperledger frameworks and tools. But on occasion, we relaxed those rules, we've had some speakers in the past that have presented that have not necessarily used hyperledger frameworks. And I think I'm okay with that. And I think this feedback out of this most recent survey tends to be in support of that. So I would guess maybe perhaps that was probably the only real surprise. And to be honest, for me, it wasn't a surprise because I was, I hadn't kind of known about it, at least regionally here in the Pacific Northwest that membership here wasn't very critical about using the hyperledger frameworks and tools. So how does that inform us going forward? Again, we've already been doing this just knowing that there's not a specific requirement to use hyperledger stacks. So we'll continue to do that going forward. We have some great ideas going forward for topics. And I'm happy to facilitate that to the extent that we can do that. And then in general, I think the feedback was positive. And thanks to anyone and everyone who participated in the survey. The value of the survey is important because like I said, it does inform us going forward on where our focus ought to be. And so I think at least what I get out of this survey is that we are continuing to do the right thing for the sake of membership. If you haven't had a chance to review the survey results, feel free to do so. What I presented here is just a small fraction. You can certainly get into the details and parse at a deeper granularity in the survey itself. It's a very, very complete survey. It's about five or six pages long or so. And very interesting just in general. As far as regularity or cadence for meetings and time, the takeaway suggests that the timeframe is about right. The bi-weekly cadence is about right. And so we'll continue to do that. It still seems that email is probably the best way to communicate as well as these teleconferences or video conferences. And as much as it pains me, we still don't really use chat very often. And in our case, it's rocket chat. And I'd love to find a way to make better use of our chat facility, but it just doesn't seem to be necessarily in the cards. And so I'll continue to push that just at a personal level because that to me is interesting that we can do real-time chat. It just doesn't seem like we've gotten a real need behind that. So it seems like email and then conferencing seems to be the right way to go. Okay. Any comments or thoughts regarding the survey and the results? Can I ask just a quick question? Yeah, sure. Go ahead, Ken. I wanted to ask, because I'm making these proof of concepts, for example, like the patient consent group, I'm also interested in non-hyperleisure blockchain platforms as well. So would it be permitted to not only have a fabric version, a sort of version, but some other non-hyperleisure versions like Ethereum version, IoT version, NEM version, such? Oh yeah, absolutely. I personally I would encourage it and I would defend that within the organization here. As you know, we are open community, open source, not for profit and the whole purpose. And this is again backed up by their survey results. And again, this is fairly well known, at least to myself. We are still in a learning phase and that's in part the reason why I was interested to have you talk a little bit more or present even about the differences between fabric and sawtooth because we are just simply not at a level of real understanding or even technical prowess to know what the right framework is, whether it's even hyperleisure or something else. At a personal level, I'd love to hear more about IOTA. That's sort of another favorite of mine. I'd be interested understanding more about, you know, how Ethereum sort of maps. And so yeah, I'd love to encourage that and I will absolutely defend your decision to do this, to do so. Thank you very much. I hope that we don't hear much from IOTA. They're off the radar completely in the US and yet they're like all over Europe right now. Yeah, well, very, very shortly. So I believe that's where they spun out of. I believe they have a lot of support. I think the corporation of choice was Bosch, if I recall. It's been a year or two since I tracked them. And it just never caught on. I think there was some initial pushback that the IOTA team came across as, I don't know, maybe a bit arrogant. Maybe that's a bit of a strong word, but their attempt or their approach was very, it came across as maybe cavalier. That's probably a better word. And so I think they lost a certain amount of credibility, at least initially. Part of their protocols were brand new. Part of their security and encryption was brand new. And then I think rather than using existing technologies, they said, well, we're going to go to it our own way. And that seemed to be something of an affront to the community. That said, for me personally, I think IOTA has some very interesting approaches that I suspect will probably scale better over time. And I don't want to go too deep on that, because it's been about a year since I've been reading up on them. And to your point, Jonathan, yeah, they seem to be very quiet. And so I don't know why they really haven't taken hold, necessarily, here in the US, but they have a very interesting product. So we may want to find a way to engage IOTA folks and have them present here. Just out of curiosity. Can I just add a quick update for IOTA? So originally, IOTA started off with something called a coordinator. So in the same fashion that Fabric had an endorser and everybody moans about our, you know, supposed to be decentralized and distributed them. So IOTA are now coming up with some updates where they're moving away from this coordinator function. So what coordinator does, it sends, it sends every few blocks, some sort of signal, some secure data, and creates a checkpoint, a snapshot, okay, they call it a milestone. So only having one coordinator to do this is somewhat of a bit of a security problem. So they are moving away from that. And so maybe they've been spending some time, obviously, developing the software and are about to announce some new software soon. Oh, excellent. Okay. Thanks, Kent. Yeah. So it sounds like maybe they're, they're continued to sort of refine their position. And, you know, again, I'm very interested because their architecture is very different than a pure blockchain or DLT. And so it'll be interesting to see how they, how they sort of position themselves going forward. Yeah. So Dominic and I came out of the same hackathon, Dominic, the founder of Schneider in 2015. And so, and everyone was raving about their approach, but then he sort of dropped off the radar. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you want to reengage them, it may be interesting to have them come speak here. If they have a healthcare context or someone that's focused on healthcare using IOTA, it'd be really interesting to learn a little bit more about their technology. I will be building an IOTA version. So you'll be the first to know. Okay. Thank you, Kent. Well, good. Excellent. Well, good. Okay. Well, we are just at the top of the hour. I wanted to get into a Coronavirus discussion that there was, I believe it passed last night. I believe President Trump signed this bill through. We'll hold that for our next get together. But what I'd like to put in here is the notion that with this Coronavirus outbreak, how do we respond to it? And I'd like to have an open discussion about some of the ideas that come out of this. There is potentially some funding that will come out of it that may be something that touches us as a community. And so I'd like to have a further discussion about that. But we'll have to hold that until next time. And as we're just coming up to the top per hour. Okay. Well, thanks, everyone. I appreciate it. Apologies again for not being able to get the screen sharing working. I'll see if I can get that squared away for next time. And until then, have a great weekend, and we'll see you in a couple of weeks. Thank you, Rich. Thank you. Take care. Bye-bye.