 Welcome to Finding Respect in the Chaos on ThinkTekHawaii.com. I'm so happy to be back with you all. It was a little bit of a hiccup there where I was out for the last couple of months, but I'm really happy to have you all back with us here. We've got all kinds of stuff going on right now in this world, too. A lot of chaos, right, especially in Washington. All this stuff with Judge Kavanaugh. We know we're looking at so many different things, and we've got important stuff happening here on this island, too, and in these islands. And I'm here today with Justin Murakami. Justin, thank you for coming. Welcome. All right, thank you so much for having me. It's really nice to have you here. Justin writes policy for the Sex Abuse Treatment Center. And he was here one other time. And we talked about the bills that we're going to be going through the legislature. And so now I've got him back here. And we're going to talk a little bit more about what happened with those bills. Of course, it was a few months ago, but I've been out for a couple of months. So I'm happy to be back, though. You know, this stuff with Judge Kavanaugh, I think really sheds a spotlight on the gender inequality stuff that we've got going on. Cuz especially with him, specifically, Judge Kavanaugh just recently, was adjudicating a case for a girl who had come in, she was a minor, 17. She was an immigrant. And so she wanted to get an abortion. There was bad circumstances involved in the way she got pregnant. And Judge Kavanaugh kept delaying it and delaying it and delaying it. And he is on record as saying that 17 year olds, well this girl anyway, who was 17, was responsible for her behavior. And now here we are fast forward to what's happening now with Dr. Ford coming forward with these allegations of attempted rape. It's what happened to her. And now what we're hearing from all the Republicans is, they were just 17. Well, 17 year olds are held accountable for what they do. They're tried as adults. If a 17 year old rapes somebody, they go to jail. They don't just go to juvenile hall, they go to jail. And so this is a really big thing that it seems to me anyway, like the Republicans are just trying to push it under the carpet. Oh, it just happened a long time ago. And that to me is just wrong and unfair and really shines a light on how messed up our system is in this sort of stuff. And I think that it is a story about inequality, gender inequality, economic inequality, racial inequality. Insofar as there are special rules for certain people, whereas everybody else is held to a certain standard where age 17, you're almost an adult, you're responsible for your behavior. So we see a lot in how there are classes that are treated differently and given the benefit of the doubt and how it even works within those classes. So keeping in mind that both Professor Ford, Dr. Ford really, and Judge Kavanaugh were part of the same elite private school community and how we're seeing the idea that a 17 year old boy, man, is not responsible for their actions, whereas a woman would be held accountable for everything that happens. And there's a lot of victim blaming going on. Oh my gosh, there's so much victim blaming going on. It's crazy. Why didn't she come out before now? What took her so long? You know, and that is a standard normal thing for people that have been sexually assaulted, that they don't come out ahead of time because public shaming. And look, what's happening to her kind of proves that to be right. Absolutely. So how on the one hand can you say a person has an obligation to come forward immediately, which completely misunderstands the entire concept of what trauma does to a person when a person has been sexually assaulted or sexually abused. So on the one hand, it completely misunderstands that dynamic. But at the same time, it answers its own question. Why don't victims come forward earlier because of the victim blaming dynamic? Because people automatically don't believe them and say as much. And in the case of Dr. Ford, it goes beyond that. She's been forced to leave her house because she's received death threats. Now, she is engaged in an act of courage to come forward, say what she will. There is credibility behind her allegations. There were letters from her community. I think there was one letter with a thousand signatures and other with dozens of her classmates from her school saying that this is the environment that they grew up in, that there were these sort of, you know, so whether it happened to her, it is a believable sort because it happens. Right. Right. And in 2012, she also reported to her a therapist. Right, in 2012. Absolutely. So years before this appointment was even, you know, out or thought of. Right. So that makes a big giant difference. And then when you consider the way the Republicans are trying to just rush this guy through the whole appointment process anyway, and then now continuing on that whole track of rushing him through so fast, when he has come out in the past about being against pro-choice, he's very pro-life, but he doesn't want to talk about being pro-life when he's being interviewed by the senators. And I watched some of his, the interviews that they did with the senators interviewing him. And you could just tell he was so evasive with every answer almost when it came to direct questions that the Democrats put before him about women's issues specifically. And so that just really made a difference for me when I thought, wow, you hear all this stuff, oh, he's going to get rid of Roe versus Wade and all these other things, and you think, well, it's just noise. And then when I sat down and actually listened to the guy, I'm like, whoa, he's dangerous. He's a dangerous guy. But so we just have to talk to our senators, right? Get our voices out there, really make our voices heard about how we feel about what's just happened. You know, I think it, yeah, and I'm not here to comment on the politics surrounding what's happening. No, and I'm not. I'm just, you know, the point being that there are certain social inequities and dynamics that are playing out here, and that there is a, there continues to be an intractable misunderstanding of how trauma impacts victims and a misunderstanding of how victims can and do rationally react to abuse and assault, sexual violence. Right. Yeah, to hide and to shame yourself even, and all of that so that you don't end up coming out sooner, right? Yes. Well, all right, let's talk about some local stuff that's happening here with some of the bills that we talked about before. Of course, I don't remember all the numbers, but I know you do. So I would love it if you would give us some of the results of some of the things, give us a little bit of a recap of the bill itself and then let us know what happened with it. I think it's important for all of us to know. Sure. So as we had talked about in our previous meeting, SATC, the Sex Abuse Treatment Center, was really pressing for three main legislative agenda items. The first was Senate Bill 2719 from this past legislative session having to do with the civil statute of limitations. We were seeking both the reopening of a window period so that old cases could be brought in court, as well as an extension of the underlying statute of limitations. And we were going to increase that from age 26 to age 40 for child sex abuse cases. gosh, and that's what it should be. You know, as knowing my own experience, I didn't remember until I was 30 years old when I had my first memories. And so I think that bill was so important. I know I was calling my senators and you, ah, come on. So what ended up happening? Yes. And to acknowledge what you were saying, studies have found that really adult survivors of sexual violence and childhood often don't come forward with their stories or are able to disclose their abuse until well into their 30s or 40s. Even if they do remember. For me, I didn't remember until I was 30. But for people that, even people that do remember, because there's so much other social trauma and social mores that get put on it that you don't want to say anything. There are a lot of pressures not to disclose. Right, absolutely. So what happened with that bill was we were successful in getting a two-year extension to the window period. So, you know, in effect, there is no civil statute of limitations for the duration of those two years because old cases can be brought and newer cases are still within the existing statute of limitations. But we do need to change that underlying statute of limitations in order to address, you know, there is this concern for these older cases, right, people who had been victimized decades before. But what about more recent and future victims? The world has not changed. And I think we see this, you know, in the Cabinet case. The world has not changed so much that the dynamics are there that is easy for childhood victims to come forward and disclose their abuse themselves. I mean, me too is helping, but it's not changing it completely. So, when you say two years, wait, I'm trying to understand this. Does this mean that you've got, even the old cases now, have two years to bring their old case forward? Is that what it is? So, there was a previous window period. It was a four-year window period. It actually expired in 2016. So, we have now reopened it for an additional two years. So, those cases can be brought in. You know, the cases that were brought into that included the Kamehameha Schools case against the psychologist out at St. Francis Hospital. Right, and you hear on the radio, I hear on television, all these lawyers now that are running ads for, you know, they're talking about the fact that this bill has changed and that we are able to bring forward old cases and they're trying to drum up support, so to speak. I don't know, get the word out. I like that that is at least, because they're taking out commercials. So, that means that's getting the word out to people a little bit more. And the hope is that people do come forward and are able to seek justice for themselves and hold their founders accountable. And it's, you know, we talk about changing the culture. We, again, you know, the Me Too movement has brought a lot of this to light. Things like bringing cases will bring it to light and that's how, you know, we change the understanding of these dynamics as we make it, as we make understanding more normal. Right, exactly. And I love that those things are changing. You know, when you say how important it is for victims to be able to come and hold their abusers accountable, I was able to do that in the late discovery. I don't know what you call that, umbrella. This is way back in the 80s. This was long before anyone did this stuff. But it made all the difference in the world for me to have him stand accountable, to have him have to, you know, be in court and say that he did it. He did admit to his guilt. I was really lucky. It was an easy fight. But what a difference it made for me for him to have to pay a fine and to stand in the courtroom, right? Well, listen, right now, all this is great. And we have so much more to talk about. We have to take a break right now. And I hope that everyone will come back or stay with us. Please find your respect in the chaos. I'm Cynthia Lee Sinclair here with Justin Murakami. And I know you're gonna be interested in what we talk about next. So stay with us. Hey, this is Andrew, the security guy. I'm here in the Think Tech Hawaii studios. And we do security matters every Wednesday at 1 p.m. We're talking access control. We're talking intrusion. We're talking video. We're talking voice. All the things that are important to security, things that you should know, things that you should think about when you're out there in the community, things that you should look for to keep yourself safe because security matters. Thank you. Hi, I'm Bill Sharp, host of Asian Review here on Think Tech Hawaii. Join me every Monday afternoon from 5 to 5.30 Hawaii Standard Time for an insightful discussion of Contemporary Asian Affairs. There's so much to discuss. And the guests that we have are very, very well informed. Just think, we have the upcoming negotiation between President Trump and Kim Jong-un. The possibility of Xi Jinping, the leader of China, remaining in power forever. We'll see you then. Welcome back to Finding Respect in the Chaos. I'm Cynthia Lee Sinclair, and we are talking about some really important bills that have just gone through our legislature about a month and a half ago, two months ago, I guess it was over, huh? At the beginning of May. Oh, gosh. No, it's okay. It's such a good little bit of a summer break. So I was sick for a while. Not at all. I think I got behind the curve here. But we're doing it now, and I think it's important for people to get the message out there that... Okay, so give us the next one. What's the next one? We're gonna talk about it. So just before the break you had mentioned, you know, the delayed disclosure. Right, right. It's important to note just that Hawaii also has a provision in our civil statute of limitations that we would also be seeking to extend. You know, that was part of the reform to extend the delayed disclosure, statute of limitations window, because it's not all, even after discovering injury, it's still, you know, you don't know where that person is in their life, and they need to be given the opportunity to deal with whatever they may be dealing with at the point of life, but still be able to bring their case forward. Right, a little bit later. Yes. For me, I just jumped right on it. As soon as I found out I could do it, I'm like, yes. But I know that most of the people that I talked to at that time were like, oh, how are you doing that? Why? I could never do that. And I realized with most of the, even in the group, because I was in a 12-step group for survivors of incest, and all of the people in the group, you know, overwhelmingly said they would not be able to do it. They would not be able to go forward with it. People do need that time to heal first and get some strength back to themselves and to get past some of the shame and everything to be able to move forward. So that didn't get to go through on that bill then. Is that what you're saying? It's just the two years, huh? Just the two years for now. So we will be coming back and asking for that underlying statute of limitations. We don't want to lose momentum on this because if the justification is there for the two-year window period, it's hard to see why the justification doesn't exist for the underlying statute of limitations. So is that what they said? They said it wasn't justified and they couldn't justify doing that? You know, there was never a clear, least stated reason why they would opt for the option of the two-year window as opposed to the underlying statute of limitations. You know, it could just be a matter of this issue doesn't come up all the time. And again, you know, the way to do advocacy around these issues is to educate, educate, educate. And obviously, you know, that message resonated with the legislators because they did pass the two-year window extension. So we can only hope to build on that going forward. Right, now educate, educate, educate. There's a bill that was about that, right? Prevention, education. There was. For the teachers and for in the schools, right? That was a really important one. So Senate Bill 2368, which was our errands law legislation that progressed. That's what it was called, right? So in previous years, we had been seeking a working group where a task force to sort of bring together the stakeholders and figure out how to implement a project, a program for the state of Hawaii in our Department of Education and Public Schools. What this bill would have done, and it was introduced by a number of the women's legislative caucus members, had a lot of good, strong support, would have, it was that it would have mandated the department to implement a program. Would have. Would have. So in other words, it didn't go. So the department- I don't understand how they could not vote for that. That's, and prevention is nine-tenths of the cure. How could they not vote for that? That I don't understand. Well, I mean, the Department of Education, as we know, is one of the largest school districts, functional school districts in the country, and they've undergone significant leadership changes with the incoming of a new superintendent. So the hope is that we're able to show them that they should be prioritizing the health and well-being of students, and the impacts of sexual violence on Hawaii school students are clear. The Department of Health has engaged in a youth risk behavior survey of middle and high school students, which actually shows that children and youth in Hawaii experience rape at a higher rate than their national counterparts. Oh, wow. They experience more intimate partner sexual violence in their national counterparts. And that effect is actually disproportionately shown in certain counties, Hawaii County, for instance. For example, has a higher rate than the rest of the state. So we can make a really strong case. As I said before when we previously met, the experience of the sexual assault centers is that regularly on a year-to-year basis, maybe 50% or more of the survivors that we treat are abused or assaulted when they're younger than the age of 18. Wow. So these are what the statistics and the surveys and the facts are showing. Hard numbers that youth in Hawaii really do need a program. And where is one of the only places you can reach them and make a cultural change but in the school system? Right, so I know we have the respect program that's here locally. And those are all programs for the schools to go out and teach kids what respectful behavior looks like. Yes. There's the no more, and I think, well, that's in colleges anyway. I don't know if that's in high schools and middle schools. So the respect programs actually are a product of the Sex Abuse Treatment Center. It's a curricula-based prevention program. And so it has components where we go out into the community and do community group education. But the Department of Health is actually funding a project right now and has done so for several funding cycles where there's a train-the-trainer model with respect to Department of Education educators, where we teach them about the curricula. And they take it and they apply it. Some with more fidelity, some may use it to inform their practice. And to date, I think that we've trained maybe 7,000 educators. Wow. I'm sorry, maybe 700 educators. Okay, 7,000. I apologize. Is that like every teacher in Hawaii? I apologize. 700, still 700 is huge. That's a huge number of teachers. So in your opinion, what would you say was the underlying reason why this didn't go through? Is it just that they are not, I mean, they still can, but they're just not required. Is that the way that, am I understanding that, right? Yes, so the curricula exists. There are other curricula as well. So the Department approves the curricula for you. So our curricula, are approved for use with it as a health curriculum. So schools can select it. They can teach it to different degrees. Right. Hawaii has a big huge respect program that has like radically changed domestic violence and sexual violence and assault in that school. Or actually, apparently, on the whole island, what the kids at that school are reporting anyway, that has completely radically changed things. Just instituting that program has radically changed more. Yes, it is. It's just exciting. Part of the Department of Health project is that we are trying to demonstrate those attitudinal changes, that sort of cultural change that will make a difference and hopefully create a generation of students who do not sexually abuse and who know what sexual abuse is and understand concepts like consent. Right, right. I don't know if you've seen some of my other shows. I had my brother on one of my shows who is a doctor who has a program over in Africa. And that's what he's doing, is he's teaching young boys, the name of the program is Ujima'a, and it's Together We Can Heal. And that's what he's doing is he's going into the schools and teaching these programs about respectful behavior, what it means to set healthy boundaries. And so it has changed the rape culture in areas where they have done this. He's been doing it for about 20 years now. So he's really able to get some good numbers and really get some good statistics. And he's been studied by Johns Hopkins and Stanford and they all have put a stamp of approval on his program. And it's all about teach kids young. If we can teach them young, we can change the way they grow up. And they can even help their parents in the process. And that's the only way we're gonna change this whole messed up inequality that's going on. Yeah, but isn't that cause for optimism that it generally demonstrates the global nature of this movement? Absolutely, there you go. That's just where I was going with that, thanks. Okay, so we had one last bill that was on our agenda, which was Senate Bill 2342, which was clinical victim support services. We were seeking insurance coverage for these services by a psychologist or a therapist, a four sexual violence survivor, where they would connect them to services. They might work with their employers or their schools among things like safety planning or reasonable accommodations so that a person wouldn't lose their job or drop out of school as a result of having been victimized by sexual violence and decompensating psychologically. Right, now did that pass? Unfortunately no, so. Oh gosh, so we really need to get people out there engaged and motivated to really talk to their senators, talk to their representatives. Let them know what needs to happen and that we need to make these changes, right? Yes, and so in that case, there was a question about the appropriate procedure for passing a revised insurance mandate. And so we're gonna be going in with a resolution as well as a bill and hoping to get that pass within the next couple of years, within the next legislative biennium. So when is the next legislative session gonna be? It'll start in January. It always starts on the third Wednesday of January. Third Wednesday of January, okay everybody, you heard it. Third Wednesday of January. We've just got a couple minutes left. Do you have one last thing you'd like to maybe share with everybody? No, just that we're gonna have a very busy year. As always, the Sex Abuse Treatment Center runs this public policy program to really institute system change and we invite members of the community to engage with us. So my number is posted on our website. I'm available by email and if anybody wants to become engaged in this movement, receive alerts about important bills that are moving, then I'd be happy to outreach them or engage with them. All right, yeah. So remember that you guys out there, the Sex Abuse Treatment Center is available. If you are a victim and you need help, go see them, they are amazing. And even if you are not a victim, if you wanna get involved in the public policy that needs to change so that we can really make some significant changes to our culture, then I ask that you please get hold of them. Let them tell you exactly what you need to do and how you can approach your legislators to try and make the changes that need to happen in our society. Okay, so it was great to have you, Justin. Thank you so much for coming back. Well, thank you. I hope you will come back again. I'm gonna keep having you come back and keep us posted on what's happening. We'll have an exciting year, definitely. Yes, we will. Okay. Well, I wanna thank everyone for being here with us today. This is thinktecawaii.com and I am Cynthia Lee Sinclair, finding respect in the chaos is back. I will see you again soon. So I hope you'll come and join me again.