 Welcome. Thanks for being here tonight. Great crowd, glad to see a lot of people here today. Of course you know that there's been some talk about this very street and we want to have more discussions about what's going on. We've brought a lot of great folks from the city. We want to provide as much information as possible. There seems to be a lot of questions. Would you like for me to use the microphone? Okay. Is this one? Is this better? All right. And I promise not to carry it. So in all seriousness, we're here tonight to discuss a city process. And this is really important because we want to have more discussions, especially with regards to city processes and how they really work. And why they're there and how we intend to use them and how these kind of things are meant to help people not necessarily create fear amongst the community about something that they may not know exactly what is occurring. So we have lots of folks here tonight. Again, I just want to say thank you for being here. I have my staff. I also have, we have our Assistant City Manager Rod Sanchez. Thank you, Rod. And we also have Shannon Miller, Director of OHP and all her staff. But I also want to thank Rudy Nia for planning and who's also here. And we have our zoning commissioner, Sibonet, who is here as well as many others. So what I want to do is really want to have a great conversation tonight about what's going on in the process. And of course, no. And something like this is, it doesn't need to be rushed, especially when people have a lot of questions. There was a meeting that many folks came to me to talk about many things regarding this particular issue. And so I wanted to make use here. ¿Quién necesita traducción? Ok. So if you need translation, we'll be happy to provide you some translation. Absolutely. Ok, muchas gracias. Gracias por venir. And so in all seriousness, we wanted to have a thoughtful discussion tonight about something that is very important within our neighborhoods. Some of the different tools that we have and some of the different ways that we can help to provide services as a city. The different departments and how they work and why they're there in place. As I mentioned, we had received several letters regarding some of the concerns and some of the confusion. I asked for a continuance on this because I want to have a broader discussion so that we're not dividing a community. We're not creating any sense of being left out of a process. We have a great department in our Office of Historic Preservation and all that they do to help provide and protect many, many historic neighborhoods. So with that again, I just want to go ahead and make an introduction to Rod Sanchez who would like to say a few words beginning this. And then we'll just go ahead and begin a conversation about what's going on and how we can take our time with this. This is not something that has to be rushed. Rod Sanchez? Kim. Rod. You're not here. I can't hear myself. Well, thank you all for being here tonight. It's a great pleasure to see all of you. You're too low. There we go. Is that better? Yes. I'm not used to these things. It's good to see everyone out here. It's an exciting topic. Designating a neighborhood historic. What an exciting topic. It really is. And it's so wonderful to see so few people out here interested and engaged. You know, I can remember 20-something years ago, you know, we introduced something like this. You'd have five people. And that's not the case today. We have so many people that are pretty passionate about protecting their neighborhoods and about their neighborhoods. So it's great to see that. What we're here to do as a staff is just to answer questions. You know, we obviously thank the historic district because it's great. There's many, many benefits to having a historic district. It offers a lot of protection to protecting the character of a neighborhood. But on the flip side, we also understand that a designation of historic also comes with a tremendous amount of responsibility. So if you own a home in a historic district, that comes with some responsibilities. You have to go through extra processes in permits and what have you. Because we really want to make sure that whatever improvements you're doing to your homes isn't keeping you with the character of a neighborhood. So once again, tremendous benefits, but also tremendous responsibilities. So that's why when we have a process like this, we want to make sure that we really take our time. We want to make sure that everyone fully understands, you know, what it is that we're talking about. So that's why we're here tonight. As a matter of fact, you know, we started going down the road and the council was talking to you about some concerns that different people were having. It sounded like there was some misinformation out there. And it was actually my recommendation to the council as a government. You know, what we ought to do if we're doing this for, you know, almost 20 years, when we have a situation like that, what we ought to do is pause. Let's take the pause, let's take our time, let's go out to the community a few more times. And let's make sure that everyone fully understand what the process is, what's all involved, what the benefits are. What the responsibilities are. So that's why we're here. We have folks from the historic, as you said, Shannon Miller here is the director of historic preservation. I have folks also for development services here. This is the director of most of our meetings. And I'm zoning in on this. But if you choose not to go the historic way, there's other things that we can do to protect your neighborhood. So Kat and Melissa can talk to you about those things. They're neighborhood conservation districts. There are different zoning designations that we can work on to protect your neighborhood. So we have a lot of tools in the toolkit. But ultimately it's your decision. You know, we don't want to divide your neighborhood. We don't want to do something that you don't want. We want you to be happy with what it is that we're doing. So we're here to educate you on the different tools that we have in the toolkit. And at the end of the day, whenever you decide, that's what we want to do. So with that, we're ready to go and answer whatever questions we have. If there's a process, we're ready to go. Yeah, thank you, Rod. So I want to go ahead and just, again, we have quite a lot of folks here tonight. And I just want to take a moment to go ahead and start taking some questions. We just want to get right to it because I know there's a lot of questions. And I think we've got all the right people here in place to answer just about any concerns, any issues, about the process, about what's going on and how we can address the concerns specifically for this spot. And the idea is that we want to listen. We want to know what's going on. We want to take some of your feedback and provide you with as many answers as possible. And we hope to have several more of these. In fact, we have a sign-up sheet and we want to make sure that everybody here has signed up in front so that we can contact you should we have more meetings like this to help bring more understanding to this very process. So why don't we go ahead and just start taking some questions. First question. Yes, ma'am? So, I think just to kind of start out, I was listening to, you know, the different protections and different things. And I know that a lot of the conversations that's been going on in a lot of different venues around all of our neighborhoods and different ones are really about our concerns about the things that you just said. Protecting the neighborhood, having construction that does not kind of go along with the spirit of the neighborhood. And we've had some encroachment. I think a lot of us might use the word encroachment. A building in the midst of the neighborhood that really do not reflect the type of neighborhood. And I think most people who live here either are long-term residents or live here because we've wanted a quaint downtown neighborhood. And so, with the prospect of owning a quaint, pretty old home and having your next-door neighbor sell or pass away or whatever and the prospect of having a high-density, high-level, multi-story project. Yes, with very, very modern architecture that does not reflect even the look of the neighborhood. I think that the other thing that has come up in conversations is that the NCD does not seem powerful and it seems like there's been a lot of work around on the NCD. Right, so the acronyms, did you cut them along? NCD is the Neighborhood Conservation District. And it's like our neighborhood plan. And each of our neighborhoods has a neighborhood plan. But it seems like in spite of the plan, there have been some buildings go up that really don't kind of fit. So, I think a lot of us are looking at historic, not just on this closed street, but even on other streets. Because that may be the only protection where it really is a protected designation. Absolutely, and it can be because, but we want to make sure that people fully understand what some of those things are, as Rod mentioned. So, we have Shannon. Shannon would love to do a quick overview of this very thing that you just wrote. So, let's get Shannon Miller up here. Before you start, just to piggyback on hers, the conservation thing. So, I think the reason why people are apprehended is apparently, and we can tell, you have a conservation, but then you can go down and apply for a variance. So, who's accountable for approving those variances? And who's like, who allows that? Because that defeats the purpose, which is why everyone's against conservation, I guess, a little bit, or has some question about it. So, what's the point of conservation? All you have to do is start on the city and go, hey, we need a variance, and they allow it. Great question, and we want to get just to some of that. We have put in place some more protections and some more advisement on how we can make that work. We're going to answer some of those. Shannon, go. So, just because it might answer some of the questions before you have to ask them, I'll try to do a brief overview about historic designation. And then also, just quickly, because we are here to talk about Tobinville North, I can talk just very briefly about how we got to this point in that process, and then it might address some of the initial questions. So, historic designation in general, obviously, I'm sorry, if I'm not going to talk too close to you, would the other microphone work better? It's better when you hold it sometimes. Is that better? Okay, so, historic designation obviously is put in place to protect the overall character of a neighborhood. It is absolutely not about freezing in time. If you've looked at an HDRC agenda, you know that there are lots and lots of changes that happen in our local historic districts. People do additions, people make alterations to their houses. I see many faces in the audience who have been in front of the commission doing changes to their houses. And so, it's not about freezing in time, it's about managing that change. And oftentimes, neighbors are interested in that protection because something happens that is out of character with the neighborhood. We often see that that's what instigates a proposed district. Either a demolition that people are concerned about, or new construction that's not in character with the neighborhood. Both neighborhood conservation districts and historic districts can address some of those design-related issues. One of the differences is that alterations in historic districts go, if they're significant, they do have a public hearing process. So, they go to the historic and design review commission. Changes into an NCD or a neighborhood conservation district do not have to go through that public commission process to be reviewed. And so, that is one difference. Another aspect of historic district designation that people often like to hear about is the tax incentive. Whenever a new local historic district is created, every owner-occupied resident in the district is eligible for an automatic reduction of their city property taxes by 20%, and that can be extended for up to 15 years. So, that can be a good incentive for homeowners in new districts. We also have a substantial rehabilitation tax incentive whenever somebody works on a property in a historic district. And that can either come in the form of a tax freeze for 10 years of city taxes, or you can pay zero city taxes for five years and 50% city taxes for five years. And that is if you're investing in the property. So, that is another incentive that is available in our local historic districts. And so, that's kind of just in a quick nutshell what it means. In terms of the responsibility side, it does meet, when you live in a historic district, exterior changes in material or design do require review. Many changes to historic structures are reviewed administratively. We do, I think I have these numbers here, we do a number of applications, I'll have to look in my notes and tell you later, but we do a number of a vast, a big majority actually, of cases that come to our office are handled administratively over the counter. But if it's significant, if it's new construction, if it's an addition, if it's a significant alteration of the facade, then those things require commission review so that there is an opportunity for public input. So that, of course, is an aspect that sometimes people are concerned about, not wanting to have to go to the commission. But we always, you know, we like to point out that it's really the big projects that go to the commission and those are the kind of things that you spend time planning and you have plenty of time to factor that review into your process. So just out of curiosity like new construction when you're talking about new construction, would a project like 930 West Craig have gone up in a historical district under that kind of new construction rules? If it was an historic district, the new construction would go to the commission, yes. And so something that was thoroughly modern and much larger and much vastly, vastly different than the rest of the neighborhood may not have been passed. Correct. I mean, why haven't you passed the new conservation? Well, I can't respond to that but I will pass the microphone in a moment and I don't know that anybody is prepared to speak about specific cases tonight but we'll see if I know about them. But let me answer your question about new construction in historic districts. We do have an historic district design guidelines and those are available online or of course you can purchase printed copies as well. But it's really a resource and it has criteria for evaluating new construction and so scale, setback, materials, all of those things should be compatible with the neighborhood. And then also there's an opportunity for the public to weigh in at the commission hearing and to have input into the design and how it ultimately is approved. So I'm just going to pause right here. We did have a list of compiled questions that are up here that the residents of the specific proposed districts were able to compile things that they would like clarification on. And so just to kind of avoid repeat repetition or possibly just to address some of the major concerns that Shannon's already touching on, we'll just go through this list and then afterwards if there's any further questions people absolutely open up the floor again. Yeah, there's definitely any further questions. Absolutely, absolutely. We're going to be here a while, we understand that. No problem. So the very first question is what are the parameters for designating a property or district to be historic and when does this process allow for new construction to be considered historic and what is the historical... We'll ask that one second. So I guess the initial question is what are parameters for designating a property or historic to be historic and when does this process allow for new construction to be considered historic? So historic designation is outlined in the Unified Development Code in the city and there are criteria for designation there are 16 criteria for designation in order for an area to be designated historic at least... So in order for an individual property to be designated in landmark it has to be at least three of the criteria and in order for an area to be designated as historic there has to be at least two properties that meet the criteria for landmark designation. So... Did we already have that designation across the creation we are seeing to get approved? Yes. So... So the Tobinville Norris... Let me all repeat it. And it's on the list, so no worries. It really comes up to you. The purpose of this meeting was for us to ask our questions. Well, these are the questions. We just put them in the organized form. This is a bit of a short writing and an artifact. She did die. That's what we did. This is the place where we asked the questions. So that's what these are for. If you would like to write down and add to that list. Absolutely. We have a chance to add more questions. We're just saying we're going to go through the questions that we do now. We're going to go through those. Anybody gets to ask the questions. We're going to get to as many questions as we possibly can. Absolutely. That's not very efficient. We have people off in the background that you guys are asking about. We've got good questions. We've got. We'll get to it. Okay. So parameters for designating historic. Yes. If someone submits an application for a historic district, as is the case in this proposed Tobinville North District, then OHP staff assesses it to see if it meets this criteria for historic designation. The proposed boundaries are submitted by the applicant, and then OHP evaluates whether or not that is eligible. And so then once we've established that it is eligible for historic designation, we host a public informational meeting, at least one, although there were multiple meetings held in this case. But the UDC requires at least one. And then there are postcards that are sent out. And owners in the proposed district can submit the postcards to let us know, let us say no, whether there's in support or in opposition to having the conversation about becoming a historic district. Once, if, and when we have support from 51%, then we can initiate the public hearing process. And so that means that we schedule for HDRC, the Historic and Design Review Commission, after providing written notice again to all affected property owners. And then once upon recommendation from the HDRC, it is scheduled for a zoning commission consideration. Ultimately, a historic designation is a zoning change, and so only city council can approve a change in zoning. So the ultimate decision is up to the city council, in every case related to historic designation and zoning. And any regulations we have to hear to, don't become an effect until city council approves it? Well, yes and no. So the question was, regulations don't come into effect until city council approves. Actually, once a district has been determined eligible and has met that criteria and has gone to the HDRC, then there are interim controls in place. And so the reason that that was put into place is so that people can't make changes to try to undermine the historic character of the property while it's going through the process. So in the, yes, no, you can work on your house. In the interim, the way it works is that you go through the process as you would. You have to comment a minute in the application. Without a doubt. Right? You've locked it there. Are you out of the loop? I mean, you have to put it out of the loop. It's after the 51 year since. It's after the 51% correct. It's after the 51% of things. And if people clearly understand what they were agreeing to, probably not. No. Since how? Can you clearly see on the verification process from Office of Historic Preservation once those cards went out, how were the signatures or how were the cards verified to get to 51%? Specifically for this case. Specifically for this case. Well, I'm going to let Jenny Hay respond to that because she did the verification. So I'll let you hear it straight from the worst of the best. Perfect. Jenny Hay is a senior management analyst with the Office of Historic Preservation. And she has been managing this process. Hi, everybody. So verification takes place after we've received a signature. The property owners provide either a phone number or an email address. And in this case, both were used to try to contact the property owner in order to verify that that signature was valid. However, there are several people who say did you vote in support of the historic district? Then you wouldn't have been contacted. We have to verify 51% of support before we've been forward. So the people who voted in favor were contacted to verify that that was a legitimate signature. Did you vote in favor of the historic district? Now, listen, here's the deal. I'll say, okay, how are you verifying these votes? What is the verification process? Wait a minute. What is the verification process? Come down and rock it. What is the verification process? And if somebody changes their mind, and this was the question, if somebody changes their mind, could you please be quiet? Now, if somebody changes their mind, how do we record this? Well, they just call on the phone, they identify themselves by name, and what property they own, and then we change them up. I said, okay, that's all it takes, right? That's all you gotta do. So that's simple. I can knock this thing down and not deflate. Okay? So the next question is, if a group of people, a whole bunch of people, once they've been coming forward, as to what it is they're getting into, change their mind, where does that, where, when does that bubble? When does that, when does that get challenged? And it's, oh well, we've got a record of it. If you call, give your name, and the property address, this is not, this isn't American National Project. Yes, it is, and that is how it works. And let me, let me be clear, the city council had a great amount of deliberation about this, about how the process should be helped. And it was determined that if 51% were in support of initiating the process, that that was enough justification to begin the discussion. And at every point through the process, HDRC, zoning commission, and city council, people are free to change their minds, re-state their position, whether it's the same or different, and city council, every board along the way will factor that in. And ultimately, city council is certainly going to weigh how much support or opposition there is for a district or any other zoning change before they make that change. And so, though any, any change in someone's opinion is absolutely recorded, and I would also caution using the word vote. Vote implies that, that's the decision. It is, it is expressing an opinion, and ultimately, the city council makes a decision on whether or not a property can become, can be a reason to, to become a story. But you're creating the district before the city council approved? No, the district has not been created. Remember, I, I think it goes forward with, with the key on what Shannon said, all that, all that we did is start the process. The process is started. So after the process starts, there's a lot, that's what we're here tonight. There's discussion that takes place. There's public hearings that take place. There's public hearings before us, the historic design review commission. There's public hearings before the zoning commission. And there'll be, ultimately, a public hearing before city council. So all we're talking about is verified and we have people that do want to start this and that's what it does. It starts the process. So after the process starts, there's plenty of time for dialogue. There's plenty of time for people to weigh in and talk about it. But what do property owners do in the main sign? So Shannon did a wonderful job answering the entire question. So we're going to move on to the second part which answers that exact question. So, Shannon, the next question in the category for historic design guidelines and process would be what is the necessity of rehabilitation or appears once a historic overlay is applied? Okay, so, I mean, it seems correct me if I'm misinterpreting this question but I think what people often ask is, are you going to be required to do something if it becomes historic? And the answer to that question is no. Well, I think that particular question it is. It says necessity of rehabilitation or repairs once it's applied. If you are planning to do work, you don't, there's no reason that you would come for review. So it is, our review is triggered by your decision to do to make a change to your property. In the same way that you don't get a building permit if you're not doing work, you come down to apply for approvals when you decide to do something to your house. Anything specific on that? Like, are we talking about changing the paint color or residing new windows? Do you have some kind of windows that I've been paid for? Do you have some kind of roof color? I got like... Yes, that's exactly right. You have a stick, so on every aspect of it you have to change that. Exterior. Most exterior changes are reviewed. Individual plantings, not. But, yes. Exterior review of replacement windows, siding, anything like that would go through the design review process. Architecture but not landscaping? Correct. I mean, like hardscaping does require review, but new driveway, things like that. Yes, but if you are trying to decide whether to paint pansies or petunias, you don't need to ask us. So the next question, very similar, but I think it'll build up a lot of the questions you'll have. Wait, wait, please! I'm going to give a lot of questions. Before you went into reading your question on the board, I had a question from the previous. This is just starting the dialogue and be careful about the word vote because ultimately, you guys have to say so. Is that right? No, the city council. Okay, yes. The city council ultimately makes all decisions related to zones. Okay, so it almost seems why are we starting a discussion if ultimately you guys, or the city council has the last say that what are our opinions really matter? So, let me answer that. The point that what's trying to be made is is that this is a process that gets started or initiated. Then the discussion happens and of course, as it comes to city council, we don't unilaterally make a decision despite what we're hearing. What began some of this process or continued some of this was the fact that my office received many letters asking us to take a closer look. Which is what we're doing here today. That's the whole point. We want your input. We want to get a better understanding of what's the misunderstanding? What can we do? How can we provide more information? The reality is, I think what was said earlier by Rob Sanchez was there's no big rush here. What we want to do is have a conversation so that we have a better understanding. City council, we don't make unilaterally votes. We need to get input from our community so we can have a better understanding that a process that we have in-house is something that is working for the community. That should add to your question. I have a question. What percentage of projects that are requested by HDRC from a historic district are actually approved? 98%. I think that's an important point. A lot of people seem concerned that they might not be able to make the changes they're going to make to their exterior. But 98% of proposals in historic districts are approved after they're made. Are those 98% approved administratively? Let me give you those numbers. In 2016, there were just over 2,000 applications. 2,191 applications. 98% are approved. 1,610 of those applications were reviewed administratively by staff typically over the counter. While you wait, 581 applications went to the HDRC. 98% of all applications were approved. I don't know, I'm sorry I didn't do that math in my head. Roughly 2%. I would also say that even the 2%, typically those come back with modifications and they're ultimately approved. It's just sometimes things aren't approved exactly how they're originally proposed. But even those cases that are approved initially often come back with revisions. We do have a process that has been very successful where the commission has a committee that's called the Design Review Committee and they meet several times a month. They commit a lot of time to meeting with applicants and offering assistance and so usually through that Design Review process owners can come to some sort of solution that works that is consistent with the design standards and also works for the property owner. For example, if I only put new windows in my house and I find a vinyl window for 250 a window but the historic district requires a wooden window that's 600 a window. Do y'all stay still on that? Yes, we review windows. So that's where I have a problem. Windows have to be reviewed and each case is different. I'm going to have somebody dictate to me that I have to spend an extra 500 bucks a window because it doesn't meet your guidelines. Each case is different. That's my opinion. Each case is different but we do a lot of public education about windows. There's a lot of misinformation out there about the energy efficiency of windows and the inability to repair existing syrup windows which have much more value than a lot of people realize. We'd be happy to sit down with you individually and talk about your particular case. I have a question about the question you were supposedly answering about existing things and you said nothing needs to be changed. We went to a meeting with Mr. Trevino that there was a man there who was concerned about having a window unit and asked if he would have to have that taken out because it's not historic. And at that meeting he said yes, that could happen. The only time that someone would have to change them, yes. The question was somebody understood that if it became historic that they would be required to remove a non-historic window air conditioning unit. There is nothing that a property owner has to do upon becoming historic. Period. If and when a property owner decides to make exterior modifications then that would require review. So if you have a window unit... Second, because section 35 of article 6, 35 that sits in the title is demolition by neglect. And that completely disputes what you're saying right now. No, I... Look at it, it's right here, it's part of UBC. I'd love to have somebody discuss this because it says that it says that in keeping with the city's minimum standards its owner or other person has illegal control of the designated historic landmark or structure and a local historic district shall preserve the historic landmark or structure against decay and deterioration and be free from the quality of that. There's a whole two pages of it. Yes, the city does have minimum maintenance standards that apply whether you're historic or not. So you can put it. Okay, here. One last time, please. And again, city code and minimum maintenance standards apply citywide whether you're historic or not. So that is... That's one of the other departments I'm over is code enforcement. And Santa's right. Just by living in the city of San Antonio we have officers going around the city making sure that your grass doesn't get too high making sure that your house is in good condition and what happens. So like Santa said, those are things that we're going to be looking at no matter what. But it's not more so than the historic district? And why is that? That's because specifically then in the section 35 of UBC that has to do with a building that is in such disrepair that it's could potentially devolve us. That's why it's called demolition by neglect. It's about properties that are being... There's a lot of parameters that are going to be interpreted by... Sir, I promise you, that's what demolition by neglect means. I understand what's being said but what it's written actually in the law and you do the code can be interpreted by... if you're positioning or something else can be interpreted just because it's not followed now doesn't mean it can't be followed. But once again remember the title of the section it is demolition by neglect and that's what we're trying to prevent. Can we go back to the previous question about the demolition here? Sir, I heard similar things about potted plants, yard ornaments if you have a deck or a porch or a patio if you have a fence or a carport or a room it's the same thing that some folks said that you're going to have to change all those things. Okay, I don't know how else to say this any more clearly. Historic designation does not we are not going to knock on your door and tell you that you have to change something that is already in existing condition if you want to make a change to your property wake up on Saturday morning and decide, you know, I should start thinking about whether or not I want to add a room because I'm having a new kid or whatever the situation is then you're going to have to come and talk to us but if you are going about your life and not making changes to your house we're not going to require you to do anything. So I think it's also important I want to point out that Shannon her department hold many events to help educate people historic homeowners, fairs and others to help educate people about what it is their department does so I think it's important to also understand that we do what we can to try to educate people about this very process there's going to be very specific questions just like that so I just want to point that out because her department does do a good job making sure that we have many events like that a lot of them held in this district The Homeowner Affairs August 26 The Department is now trying to ask about Can I touch on the response of one from the prior list about whether an opt-out option even exists. In the second one, back to your tax break for investors, is that for you to come in and buy a property or if you are a landlord of your property do those tax breaks apply to you or if you get no tax breaks? Okay so there are two tax incentives I'll answer that one first There are two tax incentives Homeowners in new historic districts so let's pretend for a moment that the Tobin Hill North Historic District became a natural historic district then every person in that district who lives in the property and owns it would get an automatic reduction in their city property taxes by 20% and as long as you stay in the property the city property tax and as long as you live in the property up to 15 years that reduction in the city property tax liability remains in place. The second type of tax incentive is called the rehabilitation incentive if you're doing rehabilitation on a property that you own whether it is commercial or residential or you live in it or you don't live in it any historically designated property that is being rehabilitated is potentially eligible for the rehabilitation incentive and for commercial properties there is the option is you pay zero city property taxes for five years or 50% city property taxes for five years on the residential side you can choose between two models one is your city taxes are frozen for 10 years at your renovation value or you can take the zero for five years 50% for five years option and that is transferable with the property so if you are an investor or you're a homeowner who decides to move or sell that transfers to a new owner for the full 10 years because it is an incentive on the rehabilitation it is an orientation I just want to be clear because it was just asked when she says city taxes know that your tax liability is split between school districts, city, county and other agencies right the city portion that you're responsible for is 21% about 21% so that's the city taxes that she's talking about let me finish let me answer her other question the second question or the first question I answered the second one first was about being able to opt out and opting out is not so zoning it just doesn't work that way it's not recommended for it to work that way the way that a boundary is changed in a storage district is not through individual vote in the same way that your vote isn't determining how a property is zoned you can't undetermine how your property is going to be zoned either so that is up to the elected officials so the way that a boundary is changed as it goes through the process potentially is say again let's pretend like we're moving down the road on this district and there are a number of people in opposition on one end of it then when it gets to zoning commission or when it gets to city council the councilman or the zoning commissioner may say we would like to move forward with a portion of the districts but we don't believe that enough people are in support in this part and so the boundary can get smaller as it moves through the process it cannot grow because the new owners hadn't been notified so that wouldn't be fair but a boundary could be decreased as it moves through the public hearing process I also know that part of the reason for your question may have been about how the boundary lines are drawn now and I just like I stated this at the beginning but just to reiterate the boundary lines are really determined by the applicant and by the neighborhood and by working with the community so OHP staff responds to the neighborhood in evaluating the boundaries and it's really not uncommon for a boundary to be drawn to maximize to try to maximize where where people know that support is and in fact that was kind of imagined by city council when the process was created and so if you know that you have support in a certain area then maybe you start there with the people who want to become a historic district and then ultimately people might see that it's worked out and they might decide to expand or they might decide that they don't want to but that is a way that the city council envisioned that the process could work that's caught by I mean it still doesn't sound right that you can change the the lines so the applicant himself can change the lines I understand maybe it's in the rule but it seems to be a very bad rule because it should be not just one person it should be representatives of the city it's from the historic commission you determine what's the story not one person but this is my house that is the 19th and doesn't mean it's a story we had several community meetings where folks were invited to come to those meetings to sit down to discuss what the options were and to review the options for the initial application to be looked at to be reviewed there was also at least two public meetings put on by OHP if I remember correctly where the entire neighborhood was invited not by an individual and not by an applicant but by OHP themselves and that was public meetings where anyone could come and anyone could come all of that stuff happened if we were fortunate enough or responsible enough to make it to all the meetings it doesn't diminish the value of our opinion no that's why we're here that's exactly why we're here you're just curious on the tax deduction is that an automatic deduction or does the homeowner have to go downtown to avoid the tax deduction so the new historic district credit we submit the paperwork to the america county appraisal district but the rehabilitation credit you actually have to apply for it when you apply for the rehabilitation so that would happen as part of the process for doing the rehabilitation on the property so there is and I believe you have to file the paperwork every year you just have to refile it annually but it's like it's like your home it's sort of like your homestead exemption it's another exemption that's listed on your taxes but you do have to file a form but they have that we provide that paperwork and they just verify what is does anybody figure out what 20% of 21% is as a percentage of the total in relationship to in relationship to how property values historically always rise when it goes historic so the question was about how the property how the tax exemption compares to the rise of property values and you know there, I would encourage you to take a look at the economic impact study that is on our website related to historic designation there have been several assessments of property values in San Antonio and there's no question that central city neighborhood property values are going up but there there's not a direct correlation to it becoming historic or not ask your neighbors who live in Makin Park it's not in the historic district and their values are going through the roof it's happening there's a lot of property values just for the fact that people do have the ability to come in and redo these properties and are revitalizing these neighborhoods without going through all the red teeth and I'm afraid that your historic district is going to play so my question is the savings, the rehabilitation tax savings, how much more are you going to spend on rehabilitating because of the rules you implement and the guidelines that we have to follow, how much more is that rehabilitation going to cost that person so every every situation every situation is a different question one of the benefits of maintaining historic fabric is that it is undisputed that old-growth wood is stronger than new wood that a lot of materials were higher quality materials just by virtue of the fact that they are made from old-growth wood and so if you look at lifecycle costing of maintaining a historic property if you have an historic window and your, did you say 1910? is when your house was constructed so you have an over 100 year old window if you still have your windows that window was there for 117 years 107 years okay but think about this for a second it was there for 107 years if you buy the fanciest replacement window you can find you're going to replace it again in 15 years they're that's not true I am at your point nice and out, nice and out and I just let you know from the real estate perspective people shy away from coming into the neighborhood after it goes to the store to do this right over again okay I've always felt 350k okay let's have this turn you want that? of course yes we do can you address how the initial application was submitted there were 99 properties how it was diminished to 88 properties so as I said well maybe I didn't say clearly but so that the the applications initiated I'm sorry I didn't hear the last part well again the number of properties included in the proposed district was reduced and how did that happen so again the process was envisioned to allow for seeing where support for potential designation flies and then moving forward accordingly a neighbor an applicant or a group of applicants whoever it is that initiates the historic district if they start with a whole neighborhood or a whole three blocks and they realize that there's not enough support to reach that threshold then it makes sense for them to look at a different area and I will also say that that is extremely typical most many well maybe not most but many historic residential historic districts in Antonio happened over time they started with a couple of blocks and then they were built upon I think Montreal Park had like five phases so during the process you were saying it does not it does not like dirt management I understand I understand the question you all made yourself clear and that it's the process that is currently in the EDC it allows for that process so what we have a friend yes sir do you support this designation well I support having this discussion because again most of the time when we get these before us we get a lot of a lot of questions so I have many conversations regularly with my zoning commissioner and when we get a lot of questions that came before us we get a lot of letters and we get a lot of questions we said we need to have more discussion so this isn't about stopping the process this is about having a broader discussion as we can see here we have we need to have a more robust discussion we want people to have a better understanding of what's happening is there a ways to do this in phases is there a ways to do this in such a way that the neighborhood does not feel like they've been gerrymandered or left out of the process that's why we're all up here today we want to answer as many questions as we can it's important to me that we move forward in a positive way so if we have to have more meetings we have to have more discussion I think that's important for this because this is exactly what I think is very important not just in this neighborhood but in many neighborhoods I think it's very important to make sure that people that are here that are senior citizens and have been told that their property taxes are going to skyrocket whether it's historic or not if you're a senior citizen please remember once you're 65 you are cat out it doesn't matter what happens and you also get the 20% reduction on top of it so be aware of that if you are in residence and you're 65 and your property taxes you're in a sense that should go up three times as a senior citizen nothing will happen with your property taxes not only on the city side but on the county everything other than less than 10% of our total taxes and there's many other important things we have these exemptions and I think it's a great point but again we want to make decisions after you feel like the community has been well well informed and that's what we're trying to do here tonight we want, that's why everybody's here tonight I think just about everybody that I can think of to help provide as many answers as possible so that we can move forward and have we do that we're learning through this process back to Mike so I'm young and I think this is great I moved to Yall City so thank you for having me so everyone up front thank you for dealing with this this is hard to keep in their faces I appreciate it when I moved to San Antonio the Alamos downtown that is historic what is historic what about this neighborhood 1950s 1910 old does not equal historic as the state of Yall I don't want people coming to my part of town because it's historic one ring that's just my opinion B can we get to the third column C everyone in this neighborhood that lives on this street yellow green border for yellow to write letters to each other we don't need this name we need to talk to each other and come to an agreement with each other as well thank you thank you so now I just address that for the great points to be good neighbors we want people to feel like this is an inclusive process we have things in place that we want we believe will help people but not divide we don't want to divide neighborhoods this is about coming together and providing as much information as possible as I mentioned there's been many fairs in fact I've been a part of several historic a lot of assumptions that are made about certain things that happen with regards to how you can fix your home or what colors you can choose one of them being as you all know I even have a program that I've been pushing in district one called San Antonio 1 Roof which helps disadvantaged homeowners repair their roofs and they're white and the first question I get was well man OHP is going to hate that does OHP hate white roofs so there's a good example of how we just want to be able to be as informative as possible we want to bring people together and you know I think we have a very diverse community here we have a great community our goal is in fact our job is to advocate for more information answer your questions as best we can and we don't want anybody to feel like they don't understand the process fully they're being forced into doing something so I think that's really really important and again I'm just really glad that they're all here I had a question what is the story about this great community you might have heard of unburnt property so I'll answer that the answer is that's what we're triggering the triggering process to start evaluating that and that is what we're doing and so that's what we want to make sure that people fully understand that there's a process that's been triggered and we're in that process so my turn so let me add on to that about why it's a story your statement about it's not the Alamo no obviously it's not the Alamo but did you grow up in the Alamo why do you think that most people are normal everyday people we go about our lives and we live where we live we work where we work and those are the places that are important to the people in the community when you think about your memories you think about the places where you went with your parents or your grandparents or your friends or whatever those are not just the Alamo those are your best friend's house whatever the old gas station where you went with your grandfather to fuel up for your road trips our lives family grocery our lives have so the point is that there are numerous criteria for a property becoming a sort because the historic preservation is about protecting that which the community finds special or finds value in if it is determined that enough people are in support of protecting your neighborhood in the form of a historic district then that is the right tool for you if it is determined that there's not support for that that you don't want to have a say in how the changes are made in your neighborhood then great then that doesn't happen but it is a it is a proven tool that gives property owners power in impacting how their neighborhood develops