 Welcome, everybody. It's Tuesday, December 19th. It's 5 0 4 p.m. For the Middlesex Select Board meeting. We have Peter Hood our chair who is in Colorado on the zoom we have guests lead fallen in progress and we have what is your name sir Bob Butler hi welcome mr. Butler and we have orca and We have four of us Bridget is absent So Thank you everybody. We're going to move to the first order, which is approving the minutes of the December 5th 2023 regular select board meeting action likely Any discussion about that? Okay, is there a motion? I'll make that motion. Okay, Randy second is where you weren't here Victor was not here. Okay Okay, Peter seconds it all right, so is there enough there's the three of us are here Yep. Okay, so all those in favor of approving the December 5th meeting minutes Say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. The ayes have it and Vic abstains because he wasn't here We're going to review amend and approve the agenda for the December 19th. That's today 2023 select board meeting action likely are there any amendments? Facto collector deliver taxes until the March 2024 town meeting and hope somebody runs Okay, so we're not going to do that. Yeah, I'm just getting removed. Okay. All right Any other amendments or additions? No already did you you want to make the motion? as amended by Sarah ready a second Alrighty Randy seconds big first all those in favor say aye. All right. All right. Great Okay, then so we oh wow. It's 5-0. It's perfect timing for mr. Butler The informational meeting with Bob Butler of Butler technology to discuss the town's IT needs action Unlikely mr. Butler you have the floor welcome Um Would prefer questions. What am I okay? Let me let me take it over. Okay, Dorenda. You have the floor I have the floor. I met with Bob last Friday Took him around showed him all of our computer equipment Talked to him briefly about what our issues were What was a priority for us that there's a possibility that? You know that we're looking to make a move possibly to another IT person We would be looking for somebody who could help not just support us But give us guidance when we need new equipment We talked brief told talked about maybe going to the cloud with the server that that was something the select board had Talked about so he made a list of all of our equipment and kind of got the feel of What we're looking for so I asked him to come into the meeting so you guys could ask questions of him and You know take it from there The first thing you really want to do is talk to an IT guy So So at any rate I'm I've had a business for 30 something years now, I guess 25 30 years I'm over in Waterbury. I Do exactly this kind of work. I have a few municipalities that I also work with including Waterbury And This is what I've looked at here is all well within my scope. I think somebody here know The reference came through Tom Burrell. That would be I work with Tom Panergy Doing some work in database design and transfer and I Had asked Tom a couple of questions about some of our IT needs and he passed on your contact info That's when Dorinda had reached out. Okay, so I work with Tom was originally an instructor of mine More than 20 years ago, and I've just struck up a professional relationship with him and he works He's a full-time professor, but he does a certain amount of consulting on the side Really great asset and that's I think you if you worked with him, you know Tom The other part of the other part of this equation is that I've served in many aspects of the municipal function that on select board Everything but the dog catcher pretty much now So I understand that and I actually I really enjoy it So I don't I don't know what else you And you probably don't have any questions Is your like when you talked with him about like just the fee structure Is it similar to what we're getting we didn't talk these structure because I didn't want to go through all that and then half It all be repeated. We kind of just talked about our needs and Like when the power goes out every weekend and we come in every Monday morning and we have to you know We got a problem. This the printer doesn't work or this doesn't work It's like the response that we need that possibly it's just a matter of a phone call that says yeah Just go reset the server or something to that extent, but I didn't get into any of the fees Or how his billing works or anything like that? my billing Traditionally, I mean I I don't mind working in ways but for All my other clients I work on a time of materials basis They could I guess I'd be called your classic break fix as opposed to somebody that pay as you pay subscription fee Yeah, that although I would consider that I don't have a problem doing that in a business long enough that it just it all comes down to a spreadsheet and The timepiece of that do you have a rate that? That you typically work with for municipalities. Yeah, I charge a hundred twenty five dollars an hour Yeah, though In and it depends with basically it's a hundred twenty five dollars an hour I charge one-way travel to encourage You did not call me out like every other Reasonable IT person now you can get things done largely done remotely I I like doing that because of the convenience and Because I keep weird hours Sometimes and I work weekends and sometimes really early in the morning I can get in and get dialed in thanks in it. It's a way of keeping Ion people for equipment But I do like to be on site occasionally, it's just you can Get the information you get from people. It's so much better than from sitting in my basement Do you have like a team of people that you work with so that like when you're on vacation there's someone there that Helps you it's Tom Okay, Tom is Tom's my backup backup. Yeah And which begs the obvious question. I have that there's a limited amount of me I tend to work like I said a lot it's I work evenings and mornings and what have you and There'll be occasions where you'll have something scheduled like oh, I need a printer installed I will schedule that with you and done that if say for instance the town of Waterbury their email server goes down I'm going to call up Wherever my contact is and say look Waterbury's email is down the entire time is down for for that I'm gonna beg off installing your printer and in exchange for that When it when your turn in the hopper comes and you've got something that's you crashed around your ears That may have my clients the other clients Will offer the same, you know, it's basically In The 25 years I've been doing this this is worked. Well, I'm not stretched so thin that I'm I'm I'm not I'm moving all the time. I'm really busy, but I'm not stretched so thin that I can't accommodate that And you would have additional capacities for what middle sex needs are you feel? In in in addition to the workload that you've already got. Yeah, oh, yeah I understand you've got three or four municipalities that you're working with already Yes Duxbury, which is largely the town garage the town of Waterbury, which is a Going concerned. They've got a lot going on there and the town of Eden. Okay, so, you know, it's not It's not big it's they're all smaller communities How have you been with Waterbury, how long have I been doing that? I want to say 10 years So I imagine there would be you you would be able to provide us with references. Yes, absolutely. Yeah And so the question I have which I'm not gonna be able to articulate But during the you will about the moving over the emails like changing the emails Did you talk with mr. Butler about that and when I told him what email we were using he went Okay So we were all on the same page on that one It's a you need it. Well, first of all migrating out a rack space would probably be a very good thing I think you probably had some fun with it earlier this year And going probably office 365, which is where everybody should be going. I finally gotten around to that that it is Makes a lot of sense now so moving up into that is a good idea and Transferring all that over for us to 365 is something that you're able to do it. Okay How about what we've been talking about a new server now? For so you spec out all the equipment that meets our needs you do all of that, correct? I think yeah Just to do that is that is certainly a large part of what I do is it's not just fixing things and making them work But it's really providing you the guidance and the background around the stuff to take that off your hands to you know I mean you don't go and spec out the pieces that go into your car that you get fixed And I'll do that. I'll make a recommendations if there are options I will advise you as to which ones those options are and what the relative merits are It's Peter hood on the zoe spot here to the extent we've had Some dissatisfaction with our with our existing Company we've been working with that is the reason Dorenda has reached out to you and we encouraged her to do that What I would what I would suggest is that the next step I mean if anybody else has any other questions we can we can ask questions, but what I would suggest is I Guess a two-pronged approach to this One is to give us In particular a proposal to Update our server whether you think going to the cloud is the right way to go or or staying in-house and If so, what equipment we would need and what you would recommend and what the what the cost of that? Project would be and then the second thing is the is the puzzle of the email that we have to deal with I'm gonna I'm gonna tease that out a little bit It seemed to me that you asked both those questions was about about email and and that you you really want to be Office 365 is Probably your best option. I certainly have a number of places that I have on-site exchange servers Which is hosting your own email. You don't want to do that. I'm moving all of my clients judiciously Over to office 365 Which is just basically a hosted email server by Microsoft. Yep. Just to finish up my thought I think there's three pieces of this One is to give us some idea of how you would handle and what your estimate of the necessary time would be To provide ongoing support And I know that's a bit of a guess but Having seen the size of our town and what we are I suspect you would have some thoughts about what that would be And and then the email and probably third the server I don't know we're very motivated to deal with the email problem Sooner rather than later because that's been a real thorn to her side and you are the other question I have for you is We're closely aligned and integrated with our friends at Nemerick. Oh I yes, I have a lot of time quality time with Nemerick Yeah, so no, I'm keenly aware of it and it's You wouldn't you guys and I think every other town in Vermont are Our Nemerick so yep done a lot with it and I've got a good working relationship one of the things that I'm good at is Working with other vendors Towards a common goal I play well in the sandbox And I've certainly got a very reasonable relationship with with Nemerick Other board members do you agree with with that approach that we ask him to go ahead and come back with that? Randy still has a question. Yeah, I just wanted to clarify one of the things that Peter was asking for there is I I What I heard was you had asked for a proposal in a budget for you know meeting the needs and listening to Bob earlier it sounds like the Traditional relationship with the other towns he's been doing time and material were you asking for a Proposal for services based on the needs or just for budgeting purposes Mostly for budgeting purposes You know as we well know if we have some major catastrophe He's gonna potentially need to put in a lot more time and to estimate and guesstimate for those catastrophes is hard to do but Assuming things go reasonably well just to get some idea of how many hours he thinks it would be I Think would be helpful in the decision process. That's where I was going You know, I that's an interesting thing and what I would say is that you guys are gonna have or at least I Would approach it this way you guys have a pretty good idea of how much you use your IT services already because you've been You've experienced that with your current vendor You know you and then if you wanted more but didn't get it or wanted less and didn't get it That might be a good indicator right there I could take a guess, but I really He goes down the town of Eden for instance wants to kind of go it alone quite a bit and or much more and it varies they've had a change in town clerks and I've used to do a lot there and I'm you doing a lot less now So I think you guys control that and that's that's what time of materials is especially good for it sort of Let it lets you Manage that Do you do like monthly health checks or quarterly health checks or whatever and come in and See there's no issues with anything or Excellent question and the answer is it depends it's so for instance at the town of Waterbury I'm in the site looking at it enough that I kind of can keep my eye on things If there's not much that gets behind me Other places I work for I you know, I don't care for them for six six months. You know sometimes even longer so that it And and that that's problematic because I don't have eyes on And it but I don't I don't have a built-in I need to be working six hours a month You know, you know checking in on stuff. I don't I haven't found that to be Uh, quite frankly in your best interest And I treat my clients like how I would do it for myself And I'll tell you if I think there's something different if something's set up and it's running Uh, you really would it gets down to his risk management? You want to what are the essential services that you have to have up and running? You know absolutely and those are the ones that you you pay more attention to the things that you're like Oh, well, you know, it's an inconvenience, but it's just that That does not necessitate as much attention. So I don't know how to explain it any more than that. It's you know, Bob that makes that makes sense to me. Well, all I'm suggesting is We are not we are I would say some of us more than others sophisticated computer users, but we are not it technicians and when we get forced into that role that's a problem for us and usually A bad usually a bad situation um, so just You know having some I mean, I don't know what when we when we get up and running. I don't know what the reasonable Uh, Dorenda calls them a health check thing would be whether once a month you go in and check on things You think you should be looking at um, or whether it's once a quarter or once a week or I really don't know what you would recommend, but Certainly in the in the onset of this, especially if we're dealing with a new server a new email Um to keep an eye on that a closer eye on that for a while would probably be a good thing You know, there's the thing the monthly the monthly updates is a great sort of uh Uh Reason I take a look at I'm in and I dial in and look generally at the server level not at the desktop level But I look at things and I make sure the servers are patched and and that's something I kind of I poke and look and um There's all sorts of stuff that happens in the background serve your your backup systems and and you have probably have virtualization going on Uh, and it's probably if it's done. Well, it's it's virtualized and exported off-site So that in case for disaster recovery Um, what I want to do is I want to work for you guys and I want to advise you Would be really helpful is I like having to work with one person That understands the business risk so that your IT guy who understands what the system is doing I want to explain to you what the the business risk element of it is so that you can make an informed decision And I find a lot of clients want to abdicate that because oh dear god who wants to talk to the IT guy about virtualization Um, but what it really gets down to is like well if you lose your server when there's another flood Um You know, uh, how much hardship is that going to put in so that's I try to translate that into into real time Uh ways of evaluating that but I really want somebody to To step up and be that on-site person that I can have those discussions with is that typically the clerk Uh, it is unless the clerk runs like I you know, it really it really gets down to people's tolerance and in interest And I try to find the person in the in the organization That can be the best set of eyes for me because The best value for you guys and for me is to have somebody on site that can translate into Somebody screaming it doesn't work to getting a little more detail than that and then having some understanding of What I'm talking back at so it's I'm not tagging you're it, but you would be the ideal candidate That I mean that works for me and so I also have another System here for recording line of records that you guys might know. I know uh, the uh, it's not a co file or whatever Is there avenue? Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that Uh, yes, but it's that's a fully managed service and and they they're They're their own challenges, but they're uh, but They get it done every once in a while there might be some interaction between an IT provider and they want to update the Yeah, yeah, no and and that's good and that's where I'll get I'll get involved with them and just say Because a lot of times these guys are out of state And it would be make it much easier to oh an ip needs to be changed or you know, maybe a network card or something Yeah, I'm good with that Okay, so in the interest of moving along on the agenda is that um, what our next, uh I think our request would be that we If you're able to provide us some sort of quote I'm not sure like I know you said that you told us what your hourly rate is But maybe the time it would take to yeah A full proposal would tell you about the time of time Deliverables and cost great. That would be great. Yeah. Is does everybody agree with that? And or have any other questions? Yeah, and I think in the idea that the the server project and the email project would be sort of On the side not not Oh Consider those as separate. Yeah I think we're looking at two things one how much would it cost and then I know on our services versus the projects Yeah, uh, the project the project did the email conversion. Why don't we start there and then uh Yeah, why don't we start there? I mean the time time materials is time materials and going back and again looking at what your previous consultant has spent And if you felt that was reasonable or not I mean that those are really great numbers that you have and they're they're going to reflect What your basic needs are or I you know, unless you are really unhappy one way or the other with too much service or too little which is Well, I think the I think the two two of the issues with our uh exists and vendor are uh That their scheme is they give us a contract for so many hours And then they make sure or seem to make sure that they use up those hours And they're always charging us for extra stuff above and beyond but um, they do Give us detailed bills about, you know, what those services are and what they did and how much time, etc And we could certainly I think uh fairly share some of that material with you But I mean one of the things that that did concern us is is we got And I I don't want to share the number with you now, but we got a very high estimate for the cost of of doing the email and We didn't get a very good explanation. I didn't feel about why it was so high now Maybe that is what it is and maybe you'll come back with with the same number or heaven forbid even more But uh, we're hoping that isn't the case Okay, well, I'm not I'm not clairvoyant, but I But I I'll come back with a number and I'll be able to justify it So Sarah you had it Randy did you have one more thing you want to I was I was just gonna say to that to that point You know in the meantime we could go back through You know, I'd be happy to to look through our existing agreement with them and try to pull together some sort of idea of what the budgeted hours are And whatnot just so we had a comparable to yeah Yeah, well, I think that's what you do is you you translate that that's and that's a starting thing And and the the thing about it is that I'm going to be it's real time with me is if you're getting if we're getting too many hours You you pull back the reins and I'll give you a push back I'll tell you if I think you're it's probably unwise or what have you but it's uh, you wouldn't be the first community to do that Uh, and we go from there. I mean it's it's uh I can speak for myself and saying that Some of that feedback is what I feel is needed to say if there's a question about What we're doing or why we're doing something, you know, that there is some of that feedback So, uh, you know hearing hearing you say that is as a welcome the It's welcome Yeah, I'm gonna uh, I will explain exactly what I'm doing and why I'm doing it if I if I get Okay, I'm not going to provide some standard service because you You push back too hard. I'm gonna I'm going to tell you why I think of that, but I Hopefully I can reasonably articulate What I'm doing and why it's necessary Okay, thank you So I already taken up a lot of your time. That's okay. Thank you. Do we don't need a motion for this? Do we? No, no, do you know is there a date where you want this proposal? Do you want to find the second The second or the 16th? When can you get it to us? Well, be realistic with the whole thing. So Can you tell me what your time frame is is this I mean, you don't need it before the No, we don't need a vote before you're not trying to get it into this fiscal year. Okay. Yeah, we are trying to get it Yeah, this fiscal year. Well, we're trying to get the next year's budget Not calendar year. Yeah, there we go. Thank you. Thank you. That's it We don't need it during calendar year, but you don't need it during calendar year. Oh, that's right because your fiscal year is july Okay, I'm sorry. I've got worried. I've got a lot of clients like, oh, no, it's got to be now I'm like, uh, no, I mean if you could do it by mid january or a couple weeks in january, that'd be great. That's not a problem Okay, perfect. And I guess just one last one last quick thing You've been told by our Existing vendor that our server has exceeded its expected reliable life I know you've looked at that server. Is that your assessment of that as well? Probably not, but I tend to be a little more brugal and So servers generally I would I would assign a seven-year time frame for and I think that's what we're at with this one So you're you're right within scope. I've seen people drag them out. I use a lot It's kind of hard to explain It depends on the risk if you have high risk associated with something then you're going to want to be more attentive to it If you've got a good backup system and you've got and you've got a good, uh Redundancy then that that changes that quotient a little bit and it takes the heat off. It's all about the risk It's all about business continuity Um, bob are you I think the answer is sooner rather than later We need to do something about that server, but my sense is we don't need to do it in the next few months No, I I wouldn't say that I wouldn't say you're not in our next budget year after july 1st Our select board meeting is on the first and the third so the second and the 16th If possible, it'd be great to get it the week before which would be the week at the You want a week so you can have time to evaluate it just to yeah, I mean I understand been there. I've been on both sides I don't even think we need necessarily it to be a whole, you know, like I'm not going to spend a week looking at it Right, we're going to look at it as a meeting even if we can have it on friday the end of that week on the 12th 12th there we go. We're nailing it down. That's good. January 12th. Alrighty. Yay. Okay. Thank you so much For for coming in and meeting with darinda. Thank you. Yeah, no my pleasure My business if you have any questions, just let me know. Okay. I will do that. I have to put down 2024 You're welcome. Thank you Enjoy colorado Alrighty, we are on to uh highway report. Um, are you fire department people? Okay with waiting a few minutes To hear the highway report because it's 5 30 Are you sure? Okay It is kind of one of the same Alrighty, so um update on the town road conditions in the fema projects is steve not here today So steve is not. Okay. Call me this afternoon. We met with steve Well, let's see the last meeting was the fifth so six seven we met on friday the eighth and uh, we went over, uh all the The projects that are coming up I believe we combined some and we got down to 11 or 10 and uh And the question now and I think Uh, steve said today are we talk today and uh, I think today's the 19th and that's when jerry comes back and The question is going to be Can we lump all these together into the 2.6 million or do we have to do them individually and I would think we'd have to do Them individually anything over 250 you don't want to go over 250 because the minute you go over 250,000 they audit Well, you're going to have some audits And uh, but that's what I told steve today, but anyway, so we're uh We're gonna he's going to keep working and we're going to try to get those out He wanted to get them out at the eighth But I think we're going to be Farther into july like maybe uh, july january, excuse me like that. Maybe The week of the 18th of the next week And I guess i'm doing okay because sarah's shaking your head. Yes No, go ahead. I'll be really brief. I did have a conversation with Vermont emergency management's financial people who gave me strict pointers on how those rms should be worded and Uh That's good that we're giving ourselves some time. Okay, so we'll have to have a discussion with steve before he puts those out Correct. Thank you. Yeah, excellent. Yeah So that's it for uh, that's about it for the FEMA stuff right now and uh, I mean eric can fill you in a little better, but uh We had some issues with Did you say 11 roads? I said 10 or 11. Yes. Yes. It was right around there. I care about projects projects Because some of the projects are multiple roads. Yeah I just don't remember the exact number And are we like, um Sarah is like everything submitted for the existing projects now Like what have you submitted? so We have been obligated for the debris group. So that has passed Washington now the money for that from washington has come to the state of vermont now We're in the state of vermont scrutiny now the vermont emergency management wants to know what? What that debris removal consisted of and why it was a certain price So there there's a whole other level bureaucracy. We're going to go through But that at least will get paid and she fit and the person I talked to from vermont emergency management things will probably get paid by Then in january we pass all for the debris removal just the debris removal But the good news about that Is that once we get all that basic foundational paperwork and reviewing for the debris removal it can be applied to the larger projects And we have submitted to rinda. How much do you think have we submitted for the emergency projects? Well, I haven't We were at two point two point something million that we had but we fatted on for this Safety work and those have not been added to my list yet. I've got to sit down and Get what is truly a c project and what is it be project straightened out? But it's right. I want to say two point Three maybe two point four something like that And jerry for the via people are reviewing. They're going to that product They haven't sent that stuff to washington yet, but they have their they are working on I'm going to have to meet with jerry at some point probably this week. He was supposed to come back from vacation I think yesterday he sent an email. Is he your fema person? Yeah. Yeah, he's got some questions on some Billing that was done. He just wants a narrative for it. So I got to work with him on that And just one last thing they're going to separate jerry's going to separate the 250 000 projects and put them aside And then put all the smaller projects and concentrate on getting those done first so that we can get paid for them Once again, we'll go back through for bottom emergency management But the 250 000 and above are going to require extra scrutiny. But are they in the computer system? Did you have those all been? Yeah, those are included in that two point two but okay Well good good on you guys That's a lot of work you guys Okay Yeah, I mean you guys this is like all this extra work that you did not anticipate having as part of your job And it's like a probably a part-time job Or a full-time job So thank you for doing that. Um, okay roads. How are the roads doing? We're getting back. Um, we had Um east bear swamp Uh was affected east hill was affected. You're talking about last night. Yep. Uh, lower sunny brook was affected Notch road was affected Um wood road was affected. Um, we've worked on them all today sunny brook is back Um East bear swamp is fixed. Uh, we have to do a little bit more material on wood road And some touch-up stuff on east hill Where these areas that had been repaired through this FEMA already some of them Culver hill did well, there were no issues on culver hill We had a lot of water yesterday. I couldn't believe well my worry was all that snow in the Over the rocks and like was it gonna have ice jams so that the water couldn't but they the water seemed to get through Um Wow. Yeah, geez. Okay. Was it icy this morning? Did you have to sand? No, it was warm It might be a little bit tomorrow. Yeah, it's more slimy than I see But the damage was something you were capable of just sort of repairing. Okay, that's good We have a mud season going on right now Until tomorrow morning I'm sure we'll be frozen by then Chuckle from the chair Okay, um anything else on the highway any questions for the highway Alrighty So it is I have a question. Oh sure. Sorry. Just last time we talked about some equipment Repairs and whatnot how we look in there. Uh got the parts for them We just gotta have time to put it back together. I'm hoping by the end of the week or beginning of next week Is that the uh injector pump? Yep. Yeah, the part showed up today We got the bill. Yep I saw the bill. Yeah, I saw it yesterday too But yes, they showed up Any other questions for the road crew? Alrighty, um monthly meeting with the middle sex volunteer fire department. Oh action possible Welcome Jeff and Scott and Scott. Who are you with? I only see half ahead Oh Hi, Stephen. Thanks for coming Uh So we had 10 calls this month Was going to be eight until last night Um Two mutual aids outs Seven max responders one minimum and four for average the thing on it with the one minimum a lot of the What we call hazard calls which are trees on power lines We'll only go out and most tend to be up on my side of the town So I'll I'll roll. There's no reason to bring anybody else out unless we're shutting the road down We don't need to bring The trucks out when the roads are in less than ideal shape if we don't have to So now I've started doing especially for the winter having pov response. So privately on vehicles and that's What i'm doing with that category is trees down And if there's an accident or something like we shut down 102 and 100 to be right there All the vehicles are out by the time I could get down From my house, so there's no point in me going to the station. I go right to the scene But it's just a way to capture how much, you know, we're sending people and not necessarily A piece of equipment is going out and why the equipment isn't going out as far as the runs Picket versus deer We had a And i'm highlighting the second call the body recovery. That's one thing that firefighters Aren't necessarily trained to do but that's one of the things we're called on Someone had died In the early hours up in the boonies in more town But our carpark area And our folks went and had to to bring the body down to where The mortician could get to them. So this is I want you to understand some of the Stuff that we do as part of the fire department and serving the community It's it's not all easy stuff There's some hard stuff that we deal with But I just want you all to understand that We did have a tree limb catch on the hotline Come down and contact the fiber line and burned about 15 feet of fiber along east hill It took two and a half days to get replaced. It took green mountain power About eight hours to get a truck up there to take the the tree limb off the power line The power didn't stop. I mean we didn't lose our power because of it, but They couldn't work on the burning line until Green Mountain power got there to take the limb off A little bit of a frustration period during that time More trees down we had to close route 12. I think that was for about three hours Because a tree came down took some lines down across hung up on lines and across the road for a while green mountain power was letting Vehicles under one side of the road until Their trucks got there and then we shut it down for three hours for them to cut The tree out of the the line and get it off and string new line That was a fun morning I was one of the cars they let go here We did have a vehicle roll over and We did use engine one To help clean out with the road department culvert on bulldoch so the The jointness of the road department and the highway and the fire department We have the capability on the truck. It's a need for the town. So we That's another thing that normally firefighters don't do but That's one of the things we're picking up and doing and then last night was Closing down because route two flooded over here As far as training goes we're doing our biannual cpr training We did work night last week. So we're not doing it day after Christmas and station and vehicle cleanup Um Yesterday and I don't know whether it was from yesterday's calls or what but it looks like we may have lost a A rear tire on engine one I got a picture this morning That it's right looks to be right on the edge. So it's probably can't be repaired So we'll have a new tire to be looking at and We did the tanker one has some Chassis electrical issues, which is different from the fireside electrical issues. So we've got to get that in and get Worked on fortunately the person that came looking for the problem who Used to work for vtech In addition to checking the fireside, he checked all the grounding and all the grounds look good So it's not a ground issue. It may be something as simple as a Um The relay in the relay box the box is sealed but the relay has been making noises. So it may be something as simple as that So we just have to get it in We did move equipment over to the new rescue And We'll probably wait until Roads get a little bit better to try to figure out what we're going to when we're going to try to sell it Now it's not the optimum time for for dealing with that We do have it in station two right now As far as fast go out, we had nine total calls and seven medical only calls So that's the last report for the current calendar year Any questions? Thank your team for the body recovery that sounds like it was probably a difficult thing for some of them Yeah, it's not a it's not a fun thing. No Especially in conditions when you're going through knee-deep snow. Yeah Any questions for the fire department? No Yeah, thank you for joining us at the um station you guys down there Thanks for your service to the town. We really appreciate it. Happy holidays to you guys too. Thanks, Jeff. Yep Um, I did have a I really had a road question eric that I wanted to ask who who's in charge of um Horn of the moon road. Is that east mumpiliar or us? Uh, it depends on what side we do over the bridge you do over the dam What we go over the dam you go over the dam we turn around on the other side That's what I thought you don't do up like towards ananda gardens and all that yeah, okay As soon as you get on the other side, we turn around actually a small portion of that small player and then it goes east Oh my gosh, really? Yeah, that's crazy. Do they contract one of you guys out to do it? It's so small that it's it's just a small Oh, nobody you got to take care of what to get turned around. Oh, yeah, you're not. Yeah, I see you can turn around prior to it So, yeah, all right Um, my husband and I were having a disagreement. That's all why I'm asking he was sure that it was middle-sex I'm like, I'm pretty sure it's he's not pillier that does that section up there, but I didn't know about the bridge Thanks. Okay, so, um, let's see. Where are we? We are at the fiscal year 2025 Oh budget workshop presentation of budgets for the town office offices and listers Discussion about the fiscal year 25 budget budget committee likely to attend That's you george and is that? Oh, and there's mark and alias. Oh, well, welcome and is lee also a part of and zara's there as well Okay, zara zara is under lee. Is there under lee polish? What's up? No zara, uh, she's the fourth one down I don't see a fourth one down. You don't see the z Oh my god. Am I like crazy? No, oh, okay. I'm looking at the pictures I'm like, I do not see a picture of a zara anywhere. Okay Yes, and I'm sorry. I'm kicked back relaxing with a heating pad in bed. Sorry, liz. I will meet you in person someday Okay, that's all right. I just was like really looking at the screen thinking I'm like I'm missing something there. Okay. Welcome. Thank you everybody. Okay. So what do we have here to look at? I emailed out, um, to the select board and the budget committee Uh, copy of what I put together by sunday afternoon, um, I came in today and I've made some small changes So what you got sunday is a little bit different than what if anybody's looking at this one here, um things that were highlighted are things that either will fluctuate Based on when you work on their, uh, wages So that will take care of anything to do with wages and payroll taxes health and not health insurance, but uh Retirement all of that. So those are all subject to change um, and we can go down through the list of the highlighted items which I didn't know I put placeholders in there just so we could come up with something, but I didn't know what our intentions were um, the first one being Last year we allocated $20,000 for a new server um, and this year, uh You know, so I put the placeholder in there for that um Let's see what that's equipment purchased 45. Yeah, let's see. Wait a minute. I'm lost here already Um, I had it highlighted. Oh, I went okay. I skipped over a bunch first. Let me go back to I'm sorry. Could you refresh my memory of what you said? Why some of them are highlighted and some are because they're subject to change Oh, okay. Either we're going to talk about them or they'll change automatically based on um What you decide The first thing was line 30 if that's sir 29 the flood recovery debt That's something that I put two lines in there one for the principal one for interest um, just because I think we need to plan on actually paying back some interest so and I just put in this $20,000 number or $30,000 number And so and that's next in the discussion for the treasure report about talking about What we're going to do with the bond bank and all so um So that one really is subject to change. I think um and At this point, I don't think we're going to have to pay back any principal if we go with the bond bank We don't have to pay principal for two years um, but We will have if we get money from the bond bank. That's automatically got to go to pay down the line of credit with the bank um So I left the principal part zero, but we may end up with something there I don't know, but we know we're going to have to pay something in interest no matter. Absolutely. We're going to have an interest payment Um, no doubt about it. The other one I've highlighted just below that is tax abatements I know we did the three tax abatements That will fall into this year, which were unbudgeted I don't know if And the buyouts should not affect us at all, but I don't know if we will see anything Come forward in 2025 whether or not we should be Putting something in that number in that position or not Do you mean because they're going through buyouts and therefore No, we had the three people that came in and asked for their property taxes to be abated You know, I don't know if anybody else will come forward next year and ask for their property tax to be abated Well, like I'm just wondering if you're going through a process. How many houses are 15 Yeah, so if if I were one of those 15 houses and I'm not living in it and it takes two years Or who knows how long it takes for FEMA to actually go through the process I might come and abate my taxes Right, um their house will certainly be appraised differently than it was This year, you know, like if their house got destroyed, it'll be appraised for a lot less I'm assuming but it's still something but it's still something right, right So I highlighted that We come up with some kind of a flood number for that I mean, it's totally unknown, but it does seem to me likely That we're going to have some additional activity in that area. I can't imagine we won't Well, even if we just even if we took The number that we used this year or whatever that went through and used some form of that number right Um, assuming that there's going to be more activity there What do you budget people think? I don't know what the right number is if it should be five thousand six thousand I don't think I was thinking like 20,000. Oh, we did two per We didn't we had nothing near that this year. I mean No, we only did a few thousand. I think I think we were five thousand. We were somewhere around that five thousand five thousand That five to seven But that was only two people three people, right? Well one week two Two people that actually received any of the yeah, yeah, okay May I just make a comment on the appraised value of the properties? Yes Um, there are definitely some properties that are ruined, but there are definitely some properties The majority of them have been vastly improved What do you mean? Right, but those folks probably won't be seeking abatements if they will not be seeking abatements so almost all the properties that have been Flooded have been repaired and have been improved So I'm not and they're still in the buyout. They're still in the buyouts And they're getting money for their house. It's not like they're getting nothing their house isn't valued We did have a house sale on on the flooded house that's sold for a hundred thousand dollars more than its tax Appraised value last week So it's not necessarily so I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't so maybe we don't 30,000 I would suggest that we we've run Somewhere on the realm of five to seven thousand dollars for that What do you folks think? I would agree rabbi. I just I just don't thinking about the methodology we used on those Uh on those appeals we had this year Um, you know in most cases the land isn't destroyed. You're going to be taxed off the land any of those houses have been repaired I it's a total guess whatever it is, but I don't think it's going to be a big number and they're living in them Oh Well, that's different. Yeah, I'd agree. It's guesswork. It's guesswork Let's just put in seven thousand for now as a placekeeper Everyone okay with that seven thousand as a placekeeper Yeah, see there come down and just go up Yeah, when we start cutting back We know where we'll get out of So under administration you can skip all the way down to the new server the equipment purchase Again, we plugged in twenty thousand dollars for the current year We certainly I don't know if we're going to spend that twenty thousand dollars before year end um, so That goes to the bottom line. Um, so do we plug something in again for next year? Where are you? Down online it's 45 45 You have 20,000 there purchase 20,000. Yeah, because I think the the proposal was just under 20 I think it was like 18 change or something like that. That's a little bit for now Leave it for now. Yeah, because we don't even know what he's going to give us as a quote There's no point in really And we'll keep on going Let's see the Lister's NEMRIC Assessor contract. So this is the reappraisal That will be done that we have to start paying them in july of 2025 We have to start paying them Let's see Well, it comes out to when all is said and done in two years the total is going to be a hundred and five thousand dollars So over two years over two years. So it's um, yeah, it's under five thousand. It's four thousand and something a month We're supposed to start paying them. However, we already have 52,000 dollars in the appraisal fund So if you took that all out the balance would be 53,000 dollars I divided that by two years and came up with 26,500 That's good. Yeah, and then by the time the 26 fiscal year comes around We might have more money in the appraisal fund So we could lower it then May I ask a question about the when does that start the one of the statements start during that july of 25 I mean 24. Okay, that's what I'm sorry 24 It's for f y 25 Oh july of 24 24. Oh, okay. So it goes into the july The 25 so wait, do we actually have enough then? Yeah, that 26 five would carry you through the first year. Ah, yeah, gotcha and then we would save the next Okay, gotcha. Yep. Yeah. All right So that's how I came up with that number Um line 56 computer maintenance Uh, again, I just took a placeholder of what we budgeted for the current year And plugged in 22,000 dollars um So does that Is there a Line item anywhere else that would capture that email migration or anything like that So that that 22,000 dollars isn't capturing that 17,000 no, it would not it would not cover that 17,000 dollar So that's just our normal that was our normal For a computer and also like our NEMRIC contract and things like that That we pay for Yeah, so I mean the reality is that could be closer to 40,000 dollars If you use the proposal that we had for the email migration And everything else underneath that same line item. Yeah Question is the server on your um capital budget? I think it is. I thought it was but it wasn't in the proposal um Mark, uh the server for the cip that wasn't within the uh proposal that was Circulated to the select board for this year, right? So it's not he said no, it's not uh captured in that Okay So we need to budget it but budget for it somewhere, right? And I guess my question is in our big giant budget And we have don't have a capital spending plan section and his server on that Yes mark So going forward we need to add that to capital asset inventory As again, it's more than $5,000 and has a useful life You know three four five years. So I would talk about that. Yes, it is in there yet. We should put it here. Yeah Underneath that line item two seconds. Gotcha. So on darinda's paper here at the very end online 265 That's where the capital the cip funding is for equipment computer purchases and upgrades So that's where like a server or I think the email email migration is different. I believe because it's not a physical thing and it's well And it's a one time. It's a one time thing once they make the change. Okay. So I don't think that should be here This is a reoccurring potentially. I mean once you move cloud-based. It won't be but okay So that would fall under computer maintenance Right, right. Yeah, so that would be under the maintenance. We don't know how much that's going to be but we're saying to date We've spent 17 9 We budgeted 22 And that doesn't include that now 17 9 is what we spent last what you spent last year, right? Okay, there's no number for where we're at right now, but The way that was estimated was what we pay for support For rb, and we also put in numeric Contract, I think that's $5,000. You could make that $40,000 and include that email migration Yeah, so we could also just wait and or we could plug in 40 and change it when we get our trend by I would plug it And then we can change it if You know because we don't even know if that's a path. We're gonna move forward with at this point So okay, cool. We're getting some big bucks in our budget, aren't we? And the next And the listers asked me to add in 100 hours of support At $150 an hour if they need extra help from numeric That I don't know if We do have a contract the way it works with numeric is if you call them up and you need support on something They usually give you 10 to 15 minutes without charging you for it And then after that they start charging you But you could call them 10 times a day and get 10 to 15 minutes 10 times a day and But um, so I don't know that that's what they ask 30 comes out to 200 I have 15 here 150. Oh, I think she changed. Oh, I see I see 30 Yeah, we changed it down to 15,000 because today I talked about it They originally asked for 200 hours and I said that's a little high and so they brought it down to 100. Okay, good And I think that's even kind of high here. Yeah um Let's see. I don't know why I highlighted. Oh, I think I highlighted building repairs Just because I don't know what we're going to do Here um If we need to put in anything more there or that just level funded it for now. That sounds good. Yeah Well, because we also have don't we have in the cip that we put money aside for the town hall. Yeah, okay Okay, um No, I think that makes sense. That's okay. Okay. Um Let's see again public safety. You can skip over everything. Um Line number 75 the ambulance. Um, we don't have a new number So I level funded that at 75 It was it ended in 23 at 72 702 so There's a little bit of inflation there So that's how I did that one Uh property and casualty insurances and workers comp. I just got new rates. Um So those may get adjusted. Um, but it's not a huge difference from what's plugged in there But going forward I'll work on it over The next week and get that updated Um Road gravel I highlighted that. Um road crews suggested 50 000 Um, and I think I just put that in there because We talked about what was left in this year's budget Plus that so that would bring it in at 80 000 dollars and um, so I just kind of highlighted that one um line number 131 we did have trucking expense last year I believe we're going to have trucking expense for this year, but yet no number was budgeted for that If it should be close to the same because that's what we're going to well, well, there wasn't anything budgeted Nothing has ever been budgeted for trucking So um So are they are the cost for the trucking Figured in like so I'm thinking of like The the sand and the winter sand and things like that. Um, are those typically Isolated to the line items themselves to include The trucking or materials so like salt would it be in that same line item? salt salt now is uh included right in The price of salt The the cost of the cost of trucking is buried in that. Okay Is that trucking is not for us moving the excavator or something like that? Is it no that comes under a different line item? I mean, it's only $1900 that's what we spent last year. So that's why I'm thinking it's not the trucking of gravel and stuff like that I don't think it does seem like you know with it being under summer maintenance that seems like that might be just for You know moving equipment That's what I think too because wouldn't the cost of gravel and stuff include the trucking charge But eric, well, you know, uh, I guess the big question for me is you know, we just we just bought that Trailer that would allow the town to roll crew to move its own equipment So we may not you know, eric may not be budgeting that given the fact that we just bought that trailer Yeah, it's never been budgeted But I just highlighted it because we did have an expense last year for it So, um, I'll leave it at zero and you might want to ask eric about it or talk to him What it's actually for Let's see we can skip down to We can skip all the way through that um Okay down to recreation Um The only thing if you go down to the recreation Down and starts at two line 222 The only thing I did was highlight the rightsville beach dues because again, we don't have a new number, but I wouldn't anticipate That would change very much But he has has he given us this recreation budget? He did give us the recreation budget But he wouldn't have the new he wouldn't have it. Okay. Yeah So that's the only change there other than the other numbers in that category will update Down under the planning commission There they did not they gave me a budget, but they did not include any future grant match um I don't know if that was an oversight or if that was something You know if they don't plan after going after any grants or But so I highlighted that one Maybe we should get clarity on that if it's because they didn't actually spend anything they budgeted for budgeted For 2020 22 23 and spent nothing and we budgeted again in 23 24 Maybe they don't Pops up it pops up Okay, leave it at zero Well, we don't know if we spent any this year yet We haven't spent anything that I'm aware of yet. What did you say alias? I think sandy said they weren't planning on going for grants in her email when she submitted her budget Yeah, I think that's what she said. I just didn't know if Okay Okay, I'll change it to white And let's see that brings us down to the cip which the budget committee can talk about Okay, so it's it's pretty much the same as last year's Request the only difference is there's an additional 30 000 the town hall building fund For elevator repairs, which was in the acid inventory. So that's the difference So last year I think 106 000 this year. It's 136 000 And that's really for elevator repairs And mark I also added in a 20 000 based on our conversation here in the meeting tonight about the server upgrade So that's 265 265 yeah All right. So now we're at a 50 000 increase Isn't the elevator situation all wrapped up with What we do about the town hall Theoretically, uh, you know, I I reached out to mark this morning And you know If this doesn't if the town hall plan doesn't move forward if the voters don't move this forward We still need to do something with that that elevator um So I had asked to keep that in uh The request and the cip Understanding that if the If the town voters approved any kind of renovation or work here um That essentially that money Set aside in that town hall building fund Could be accessed for that renovation um And if if they don't move forward with the Uh renovation We still have to do something with the elevator. So that was my my reasoning behind that It's in this 40 000. It's in the 40 000. Yeah, so originally that's 10 000 every year, but We had planted that, uh, 30 000 for the elevator shaft in that building fund. Okay. Yeah, got it So that brings us to If we with that the changes we made and it's going to change a little bit still But that brings us to a 12.72 percent increase out Just kidding Well, that's better than the 21 percent we were faced with last year before we started cutting so That's right But I do think we have some numbers that we need to address especially relating to the flood um Yeah Also, I just wanted to say as we were talking I just wanted to say Go ahead, sorry So it goes to 12% Yeah, you added 30 000 in one place and you added Yeah 12 what is it right now? It's 12.72 How's that compared to last year's increase well last year's like mark said I think we originally came in it um We came in like a 20 and we cut it back and ended up somewhere around I think it was 11 wasn't it So it was 10 and a quarter. It was 10 and a quarter before special articles 12 and a half after special articles, so Right and don't forget you moved you moved that um $50 000 from a special article into the line items this year correct So that's taking it from pot b and put it into pot a good point Yeah from below the line above the line. That's right So the wages for the road crew is a different percentage increase in the wages for the Select board It's four percent everybody gets a four percent Okay, what is it what does it say about three percent here on the wages? What is this Under line 172 172 It says three percent as opposed to well, that's just how it calculated out it just you know There might have been oh because somebody might not be there or whatever, but they are okay So they are everybody's like four percent. Okay. Yeah That was a number I just because that's what you used last year So I just left it as the same. Okay, but if you go into Well, if you Okay, you're still over here. I went into the if you go into the salary tab and it shows it It's everybody's as long as it's okay. All right. I just want to make sure all right okay, um And you guys don't forget too that like if there's something here where we're like You know, I'm thinking elevator for example um You know, we could maybe say Maybe some of our ARPA funds could go towards that and I know that What? What'd you say we haven't spent them all Happily we've talked about spending them We we haven't we have used it to cover up flood expenses, but we have not Allocated it to the flood expenses, but we spent it all we've used it to cover cash. We've just used it for cash flow Oh, and there's not a problem with that Not as long as it's back in the budget, but okay, that's what I'm wondering And and it was it isn't a flight board salary It isn't allowable use of the so yes, and they did pass something this year that we can use it for that For the flood recovery if we had to if we had to the thing that I'm thinking That we should just claim it and then use it as we see fit You know and because one way or the other either it's going to flood It's going to special services for the town Yep, and no matter what we decide to use it for whether we're going to fix the elevator or we're going to cover the flood It's all special services. So we could do the final filing in March Just use that general generalize category Yeah, and then and then anything that you were looking to fund with that money would essentially just come out of the general fund Yeah, mark. You had a comment So two two questions for dorinda tornado you mentioned a little while ago that There were still budget updates to be made because of the flooding do you know specifically outside of the the number the exact number for interests on the On the loan we have what other items we have other than what you folks were just discussing about Let's say reallocating money to flooding But I wasn't sure whether there was any any other shoe to drop in next year's budget due to the flooding Well, we've spent over two million in The flood invoices, but I've only drawn down a million and a half on the line of credit So the two don't equate, you know, it's like and the difference between You know what I've gotten my spreadsheet and what I now have to go back and capture Probably can't be What do you think those all seasons invoices were for? There was a couple of them there for east hill and center road. Do you recall? No It's probably not more than maybe I want to say 150,000 or something. You were not talking a ton of money uh but What we're going to be paying an interest on is That 1.5 million okay And so the other question is Do you have an idea of when you think you have a revised budget out because from a budget Committee perspective, I think we'd like to meet and look at the budget prior to the first select board meeting in January so we can come prepared for an informed discussion on where we want to try to make cuts Um, it's going to be minor changes The biggest thing you guys need to decide is what the wages are going to be What the percentage increase is going to be because that affects a lot of a lot of those highlighted numbers Because it affects retirement. It affects the actual wages. It affects um workers comp all that stuff Are there any Are there any pieces of that that we're still waiting on? Like the workman's car up in the insurance. I just got those this afternoon. Okay, so this rate per hundred Yeah, so it is a rate per hundred. This isn't reflective of the Actuals for what it's but you're talking minimal one is a one point one is a one percent increase Another one. I mean they're really That's not the biggest impact to the budget is changing those insurance coverages So what I would suggest what I would suggest is Let's leave the payroll number At the four percent right now and that's certainly something we're going to take a look at when we get to looking at the overall budget And I realized it affects all those different line items, but I think uh I think for the time being we leave it at four percent And it's something we all need to think about whether I'm sure some people probably think it isn't enough Some people think it's too much. Um, you know, it's the same thing we deal with almost every year I just want to make sure I just want to make sure having worked hard to Try and get our overall staff road crew and everyone else To what we thought was a reasonable and fair compensation I don't want to start backsliding on that. I want to make sure we keep up I think having the numbers in front of us allow us to you know, look at some different scenarios and Uh, you know inform, you know our opinions for for diving into that Right. I very randy 100. I just I just think we usually go and I know it seems a little upside and backwards But we usually through the years Have always put in a plug number and then we adjust it up or down as we get to when we get to finalizing the budget so Oh, ready and uh Health care numbers and all that or that's it now. Yeah, so the health care is accurate. It's only um, the only thing that changed is the Workers comp rate a little bit and property and casualty So those are the only ones that numbers that are going to change and it's not going to be a significant change at all But I can get them Right well, we added that was all done today when I got the Lister's budget and um So yeah, I'm like half a percent different from okay from the paper. Okay. Yeah All righty. So any further questions for the budget committee? Um About the budget for the town office and the Lister's Thank you. Durand for doing that Um, all righty. So the treasurer's report considering applying for a flood loan at 1.3 interest From the Vermont bond bank to cover road repair expenses not reimbursed by FEMA Action likely did people get a chance to watch that video that durand is sent around? Yeah, I attended When the session went nice. Okay, good. Yeah, I was able to I was able to see that. Yeah Thanks, George. Thanks for coming. Have a good night. Thank you So is there discussion about it? Durand did you have any further sort of thoughts on this, sir? Well, um Which if you've all listened to it, you know what the parameters are of doing it It's a very tight schedule to get it submitted Although there's not a ton of requirements. Um, they need three years of An audit they need a financial statements. They need the FEMA project worksheets They need a legal opinion and from what I read the legal opinion can only come from their approved List of councils and our list of counsel is not on this Um, so and this all has to be in by the night by then Yes, um, there's only 15 million dollars available um So it's going to be you know, um, we may not get everything we asked for We only go to the well once so it's for right now So it would be a matter of covering what invoices we have currently And then we would have to pay off The bank, um, if we got this loan And every payment we get from FEMA has to pay down their loan. Yeah So it's not like we have you know money to work with So it's only for incurred expenses. Oh, that's it current expenses. Yeah, so any of the future work Or good work, you know, I know I made comments about oh, that'd be great if we could include all that It's not allowable. Right. So let's say they give us a million dollars Only because there's a lot of towns asking for money I think they're going to give us more because I think we're one of the heavy hitter towns Well, let's just say they give us a million dollars. So that million dollars would go towards paying down the community bank Loan community national community bank Million and a half It's the way the way I see it. It's this there's obviously work involved in doing this work involved in doing it And we've got to decide whether it's even possible to do that. Hopefully it is I can't believe with all the municipal work that rob helper does. He isn't on that list I don't understand why that is the case. But who knows? um, but anyway, um It's really the swing in the interest rate minus the extra expense in time of doing it And we've just got to look at that and say is it worth trying to do it or not? And is it feasible for us to do it or not do it or not? But but let me just finish my my thought that I had so it's only a million dollars But we owe a million and a half can we still hold that million that half a million We don't have to pay it all off at once. No, you would not have but we do have to pay it all off This is only a one-year loan, right? So I took it out in october. So I would have to pay the principal in october Okay And are they did they say that they would give us So if we'd taken out a million and we've no but we spent 2.6 million If that's where I used the FEMA money fund balance and everything else I got my hands on gotcha, okay So if we asked for 2.6 million and we got it Half one and a half would pay off the community bank the other we could actually Keep to pay back ourselves Well, yes, so we would have again you would pay your interest on whatever they give you And then you have to start paying off the principal and you do have Seven years to pay the whole thing or five years to pay on the principal So you would have to you know, whatever you end up with at the end And then presumably when you get the FEMA money Yeah, you have no choice if you get any FEMA money it has to go to them So would you say to them, I'm sorry, I'm just The bond bank the bond bank goes to the bond bank goes to the bond bank before it goes to community bank No, no, no if we took out a bond We have to take that money and pay off community bank. So then the only people we hold Loan with it would be the bond bank but theoretically I guess the question is that theoretically if there's a million and a half on the line of credit And they only gave us a million. So there's a half a million. There's a half a million dollars We would have to pay off in october right And hopefully by then we would have gotten some FEMA money Because it's the whole point or we have to redo or we have to redo the loan right and and community bank has has said yes that they would Absolutely look at an extension Of that If we needed it, right? Yes, they did. Um now, I don't know If and I'm sure it doesn't matter to them that I don't know if we can carry both loans Or you know, that would be a question I'd have to find out whether we can carry one with the bond bank and one with them for the same thing I think you probably can because it's not the same thing. Yeah, it's covering so much of it If they're not fully funding what we've told dad, that's that's where we're coming in So we'd be carrying the difference of what they've right what they've allowed us to pull out of community bank Yeah, I am all for this because when we're talking millions of dollars interest rates matter. Oh, absolutely Hugely, you know, it's a double. It's double the interest rate. I just need clarification because it's hard So you get the if you get a million and a half from the kid from the bond bank, right? The the the town is supposed to apply that to the community Bank loan line of credit, but when we get FEMA money We pay back the bond paid first and then community we've already paid off community If we get the full million The the complicated situation comes in if we don't get the full amount that we've drawn on the line of credit, right then The way that we interpret the language is that any FEMA payments go to the bond bank And we're still on the hook for the remaining portion of the community bank, right? Yeah, sounds like it The other thing guys, excuse me. The other thing we need to think about is That we get, you know, we basically have a one-year line of credit with the bank Uh, this loan whatever we get this loan for we have what seven years to pay it off the render Yes So I mean, we're going to pay interest but we're going to pay very low interest and we have seven years to pay it off, which You know, hopefully in that time we can we can absorb that we should be able to especially after we get all the FEMA money I just think I just think if we can do it if we can't do it if it's unfeasible for us to make the submission then we should forget about it and get on with our lives, but if it's possible to do it without Completely frazzling our accounting department. I think we should pursue it How do you feel about it? Drinda? Well, so the three years of financial statements is a no-brainer The FEMA project Worksheets, I think we can just take what we've submitted so far to Jerry, correct? My suggestion is that we just submit the yeah, we just submit what our worksheet is. Yeah Okay, so that one's a no-brainer Um Non-fema cost documentation. I don't think there is any non-fema cost documentation So I don't think the big one is a preliminary legal opinion And these all have to be uploaded with the application Which the application really is a looks to be a very simple form to fill out The biggest hurdle that I can see There's a couple questions That you have to fill out with a disaster impact ratio and Maybe somebody else can help me with it to make sure I'm trying to fill that all out, right? Yeah um But the big thing is this legal opinion Peter that's like the classic thing that we have for all the For every time we take out a loan, isn't it that we have a legal opinion that's almost like a boilerplate The local bond council serves as a critical role in confirming the legality of our borrower's debt insure inshuit insurance whatever Early engagement of local council will ensure that they will be able to provide a preliminary legal opinion Alongside a loan application to the bond bank the below list of Legally So this does say that the lists below are the banks We currently work with if you are a firm working in vermont and wish to apply to be added to the list Then I guess our legal council would have to contact them But the closest one is primar piper piper eagleston and kramer in montpellier Which has done this before for the for the banks? And then there's darby cultur and robits and waterberry So our does it sound like we have to call that we have to initiate the call with them We have to make the call it's not like built into the application that those no we have to get their legal opinion Okay, and that's what I took away with either of those firms Okay, it sounds like though because we're right in the holidays And this thing is due that we need to get on the horn right now with them tomorrow and say Can you be a legal opinion for this? I would suggest I would suggest what we do is contact rob albert And have him contact them and see if they will accept him to do this work No, that's no, that's not how it works Peter I actually I just if you don't mind yeah, go ahead And all the loan documents you had a lot of them have been done by primar and higher piper It's really is just yeah, it's really just boilerplate stuff. I'm not wrong on this, right? I mean your tax authority can always raise money for you can always tax people to get money You're we're no risk a municipality is zero risk and those things go with every single one of those I don't think it's a big deal to do. I think we just need to initiate it and get it done Is that I don't know what to ask them Why you know all we have to do is just send this I have a guy darby and colter I just send it to him and say can you guys do this for us? We'll take it. They'll say sure take 10 minutes. So can I leave that with you? Yeah, I wasn't going to go to work for the rest until christmas, but I'll send it in Oh My dog is from now Yeah Well then so I mean I'll send it to him I just don't know what I'm It's a it's a form that they have to fill out. I don't really think it's just really It's really I'll show you something you want me to call. Yeah, it's really it's really basic. I'll call. I'll do it Or whatever you want to do if you want me to do it. I'll do it No, I'm just saying if you are busy I can just say we're relying for the loan and we need to have sure we're not going to be the only municipality That's why we're doing this. No Yeah, these guys do this crap all the times to show page I'll do it. I'll do it right now. Okay. Yeah do it tonight. Okay, great. See one of us on it. Sure. See me Okay, thank you for doing that and the only other thing all right, so we need a motion Sorry, go ahead. We got until january 10th. So but this needs to be addressed first, right? And but all the other information we can just upload and it's just upload. Yeah, okay good All right, so thank you for doing that. So we need a motion before before we Do that So i'm on their site and this this says friday january 5th, right, but they changed it in the middle Okay. Yeah, yeah, it's to the town. I I thought I remembered that but when i'm looking at this it says the It was our friend carol. Yes, carol. Doris. Yes, who said she was taking her first vacation in like 20 years And could she have an extra day? Yeah Okay So is there a motion to um Give dorinda the authority to apply for a flood loan of 1.3 interest from the Vermont bond bank to cover the road repairs And expense is not reimbursed by fema. All right Is there a second randy seconded it all those in favor? I All right, the eyes have it. Thank you. Thank you. Um dorinda and sarah for taking care of that Okay, so we're skipping over that section there It's uh, we're still 10 minutes behind and looks like maybe chris. You're here to help us understand The next thing on the agenda which is considering wcu usd's requests that all washington central unified school ballots for the 12 March 5th 2024 school meeting be mailed to all active not challenged middle sex voters at the school district's expense With some action likely Is that why you're here chris? Thank you. Would you like to share share some information about this letter that we've received? I think it's just asking you to um prove this It's the same Yeah, it's similar to that although I think I think your right side of the way it reads Is the district's going to send it out not you guys. Yeah, I've already clarified that before Okay, the district's the district is going to Get our mailing list. This is what they did last year. They're gonna we're gonna send them our checklist And we're and they are going to take that to the printers and they will mail all the ballots So the pretty will mail the ballots. We won't do it. All we'll do is handle the incoming ballots So we basically just need your permission to get a motion. Yeah. Yeah Okay, and here's the proposed language for the motion I will move that the town of middle sex allow Washington Central Unified Union School District to distribute Ballots for the wc uusd annual meeting be on usps Mail to all active not challenged registered voters on our town checklist All right. Is there a second? Okay vicks seconds all those in favor of said motion say aye. Hi. All righty. Great. Thank you chris So next year I'll come back, but it will be to see brandy. Okay, good Okay, and just a quick question. Although we've already we've already voted on it every town has to pass this in order for it to actually happen Right. Okay. Yep. Cool. Alrighty Alrighty. Hey, guess what? We're back on on target approving Vermont emergency management's request to serve as a grantee in the 15 middle sex properties that have applied For buyouts through the hazard mitigation program signing the mo u the femo metal statement of assurance and the maintenance agreements that would require the town to maintain the Properties once they are returned to their natural state action likely sarah. Would you like to share something about this with us? Is That the state of vermont is going to take it over the buyout the administration of the buyouts for us What the what you are signing here if you've read through the documents Is basically that you will the town the town will be left with two responsibilities One is making sure that nothing is ever developed on those properties And the second is that there will be some sort of maintenance the maintenance agreement that it looks like it's it's per property, but It's basic. It's just Really, it's it's very limited You know, don't don't let the don't let these have empty lots become junk yards Don't let them be trash disposal sites So, um, that's it. And you by the way 28 rich road now is Flat it's done when everything is it's all removed. We're having uh rinda and i are having a meeting with A vermont emergency management next week to show them whatever bills we have incurred and see if we can get a Be on the fast track for funding to get to close that out entirely So that's done. It's actually a nice little park And the next thing the town has to do is consider Downgrading that road to a legal trail so that the road crew doesn't have to deal with it anymore. Okay Cool, so do we have to mow all that just items? I don't think mowing it says it has to stay in an open green space It has to stay in open green so you can't let it just become Right, but i'm just thinking budget wise. I think we need to start plugging money in it They're going to be starting to mow several acres of land. That's not going to be there's no requirement that we keep it Like a golf course. No, but i'm gonna make rush hot You're certainly going to have It says keeping streams channels culverts and storm drains clear of obstructions and debris keeping detention There's nothing that says it's as routine maintenance of You know It's just there's nothing that's I don't even think it says mowing in here. All right Because it doesn't say keep it. Did it say keep it all evening at open? Well, that's in the other it did say open green space. I read somewhere I was just looking at the maintenance committee. We need to plan on Brush hogging it once or twice a year. It doesn't say that we have to do anything like that I think what they really wanted to make sure is that it doesn't turn into junk yards Um, I have an issue with the 90 days of settlement removing existing structures If we have 15 houses and they all settle around the same time Where are we going to find people to remove them within 90 days? Can we change that can we just cross it out? But then is that the model is to the 360 days? Well, first of all, that's not this again That's not our issue that they're going to handle. The state of Vermont's doing that. Oh, this is they're signing this. They're signing So we're just saying okay, this is removing all of the burden for us. We no longer have to Send out for bids. We no longer have to oversee it. We this is because they're going to take over everything Nice, we basically have to submit a report every three years or something like that Yeah, we still have to do that now with 191 and 190. We have to turn in photos just to So we have to sign the mo you cluttered with cars. It's not cluttered I'd like to make a motion ladies and gentlemen. Yes, I would like to make a motion that we go ahead with us Me too I'd authorize uh, Liz's signature. Thank you. Whoa, hold on there everybody. No Okay, so any further discussion Is this a class to celebrate? I don't think so. I don't either So remove some burden that historically The office here has been dealing with right. No, I get that. Yeah It uh, yeah every every one of those properties that comes off the list affects us in some way Yeah, because we still have to pay taxes. We're not going to cut that We're not going to cut the salaries because we're not plowing that road anymore So it's It'll be interesting to see And please keep in mind that we have although there are 15 applications I am very doubtful that we're going to get anywhere near 15 Buyouts. Oh that people actually want to do the buyout. There are several people already I know for example one property has changed hands. So that person is not going to get the pre flood appraisal on that property They're interested two people three people have fixed up their houses really nicely And they're enough that there I think one has been got a loma which is a An adjustment to the flood map. So there are no longer in the flood zone So they actually might be able to be disqualified. I think they're going to stay there I don't think so. We may not get all 15. I don't think it's going to be that bad Okay, so we did have a first and second with further discussion. So all those in favor of It was peter who moved it and randy who seconded it All those in favor of approving Vm Request become the grantee say aye. Aye. Aye and opposed already Yay, that'll be helpful. Huh sarah. Oh my god. Yay Okay So signing a warning for a february 6 2024 site visit at 5 p.m. To welch park drive Followed by a public hearing in town hall immediately thereafter to consider turning welch park drive into a class 3 town road via deed and acceptance from the welch park association action likely peter You're bad. Let's go on. Okay I'll move it. Okay, uh, any one any one seconding it I'll second because seconding. Okay any discussion. Who's wondering where is that? We've been talking about that. Uh, when I say we is like, uh, the throat people And before we before we do that, we have to sign this I mean that roads in pretty bad shape Are we going to do any we're going to fix that? Is it pavement? No And at the same what's that? It is at the beginning, but once you get the fire station And then of course the fire station is another nightmare that It's another well. It's another issue down there. I mean that You remember we had the meeting down there last year to celebrate the The joining of the select board and the fire remember how rough it was You didn't even want to drive it. I I was just wondering is there any thought of addressing that? Yeah, I mean with this with this we're going to end up maintaining that roadway right I mean, that's my understanding because it's because it's class three We will get state aid for whatever that amounts to. But yes, we're taking off in in In lieu of getting rid of all the hull below and mess of welts park We are going to be taking over responsibility for that road, correct Nobody there's no There's no getting those people to chip in to upgrade the road a little bit Before we do that. Yeah Or part of it All those driveways that I I would say probably the trade-off on that is that we're going to continue being responsible for the water and everything else. I just I Believe me. I know that road over time is going to need some work and certainly The fire department parking lot is going to need some work already needs some work, which really isn't part of this but the road is certainly passable it's usable and We need to do this to make the steel happen so We haven't decided to do yet. We got to have the we got to have this inspection Then we've got to have the public hearing and then we're going to decide so Really think we shouldn't do it. That's the time to say we shouldn't do it. But You know, man, it would be a giant step backwards at this point in time to To do that and then guess what we're going to be responsible for our portion of our portion of fixing that road anyway, which is about 30 I think so We're going to get some state aid that's going to offset some of the other part, but there is going to be yes. There is going to be some Some expense, but the good news is We've been plowing the road now You know, so the winter maintenance we've been doing anyway I have a question. Are you going to have a forum to go to inspect that road? Um, that's a really good question. Uh We'd need the three of us to definitely be there and maybe he could be on a zoom On the phone This is happening February 6th. How long are you in colorado? indefinitely Okay, it's gonna be a while. It's gonna be a while. Okay, so, um, make sure I'm here Uh I guess I'm here. I've already got it on there as meeting at Welch Park. Yeah, so do I meet at Welch Park at five o'clock Okay, so a quorum is three And peter if you need it to be we could have you on the phone So I think that's okay. That's a good question. I'm certainly very familiar with that road I've walked over every inch about many times. So I'd be glad to do the phone yet. Alrighty Okay, so we did have a first and second didn't we we he moved it and who seconded it you did Okay, Vic seconded. So, um, if there isn't any further discussion all those in favor of Signing the warning I already did. I know I did too Say aye Okay, the ayes have it Alrighty, it is we're on to other business. We've got the orders that we need to sign Um, correspondents sarah Just so you guys know on the orders, um I am not sending out One of the all seasons checks because it was coded Incorrectly, so we have to void it and reissue another one Well, that was the whole issue that was the issue, right? Yeah So we're going to void this check and have her cut another one But I will sign the new one, but it won't match up with this check number Just so you know the check number won't match but the dollars will the dollars will be the same And the other curve that I got thrown is that people on rich road are all terrain Instead of all seasons. Oh, yes. Yes. Okay. Yes like Yeah But so this one we're going to I'm going to have a void it and reissue a new check Um, okay, and then the only other thing that um, we need to talk about we did get some correspondence from our board member Bridget um, and unfortunately she's having some Uh, it's covet side effects that are making it difficult for her to participate in select board and her doctor has recommended that she be um Not taking on extra job duties And she has um Been told by her doctor that she needs to step back from Extra duties including the select board So What this kind of means is that we probably need to we need to put it out there that We have a vacancy until Town meeting day when there will be a vote She has Appoint somebody for a month or a month and a half until now Uh, go ahead, sarah. Yeah Peter when a vacancy is created you have 10 days to Uh Appoint somebody you can't let a chair. You can't let a seat sit empty no matter how many months there are around They're left You have to you need to notify We have to request letters of interest. We have to we have to do the process We can't just appoint somebody that's correct. Yeah, you have to put out a notice saying that the there's That somebody has stepped down and that the board is seeking applications for a candidacy place Her until the march 5th But Is there any timeline on how on the process You have to be done within a certain time frame or just just the timeline that we have to worry about is it's starting the process I I forget. I think that um I know that there is a process that allows the town to challenge whoever you So i'll have to go through that again. I just have to go look at the statue. I mean I'm so we're still waiting for an official resignation letter from her, but she needs to have it um, so um I'll post that tomorrow. Okay, that'd be great So if you know of anyone who's interested in serving for the next couple of months or maybe in the future Show her for service and say, you know We hope she gets better soon or whatever. I don't know. I don't know what we should do But we shouldn't just let her disappear into the sunset. Um, do you think we need to have her officially? Or is that asking a lot of her right now? I'm trying Yeah, I think that we should accept her. We should accept this this email that she sent to me I had reached out to her to ask if she was coming to the board meeting because I knew that That um, she might not be present and I wanted to make sure we had a quorum um, and uh, and so that was the email that she sent so I would say we accept that as a resignation I would Don't you have to be I move we accept her resignation based on that email. Yes with regret and um A second yeah, okay All those in favor of um, accepting Bridget Browning's resignation from the board Due to unforeseen circumstances say I I opposed all right Thanks, sarah Um, oh the other correspondence that I also received was just an email from Dave McGeeta asking about the town hall and where we were with that and sandy um, replied just what we already know that um, that the board is is uh, considering putting on the morning um, that the town voters vote at town hall about adding An extra 40 plus thousand dollars for a design study for the town hall I still haven't heard back from the architect to get an actual number So that's the next thing I need to get and sarah. What is our time frame on making sure that gets in on a timely manner? um, well, I mean when you prove the warning that's going to be in the morning, so it's got to be by Oh god, I think it's like January 25th or something so All right, I'll make sure I get that from them Anything else that comes before the board Well, I have a question. I mean the next meeting is January 2nd And you know not much is going to happen. Do you guys want to move the meeting to the subsequent? Tuesday, or do you want to what do you want? How do you want to do that? I'm just worried that you're going to have a meeting in two weeks or nothing's going to happen Uh Well, um, we talked with bob about giving us our Number by that date, but january's not january 2nd No, no, no, I know are you saying that we have in two weeks in a row? To the ninth and the 16 or something if you just it just seems to me So if you're going to have a meeting on january 2nd, I'm not sure we're going to do or we just skip it all together And we only have one meeting I think you're going to need Yeah, you're gonna have an extended meeting on the 16th if that's right because we have all of our yeah All right, so so so you're saying two weeks in a row I'm saying that I just don't think that the january 2nd is going to be the most productive I think it'll be a waste. No, no, no, I hear what you're saying right So I'm just throwing that out there and you guys decide. What do you guys want? So when's the next the 16th as our second normal meeting? Yes. Yes The night the ninth would be the tuesday before that Okay, and because then if we do it on the ninth and well, here's the thing Here's the thing you guys if we do there's five Tuesdays in March. That's a lot of Tuesdays So if we did the ninth and the 16th Oh, this is what we could do the ninth and the 23rd I'm only saying that because because then we have an extra week anyway There's that fifth Tuesday that would put us back on the first And the third I'd rather I'd rather just do two right now I will say if we have to have all our reports in by the 25th, all right, fine Ninth and 16th 19 16th that gives us Okay, ninth and 16th All right, I'm going to change that date All right, any other matters that may come before the board when so when when does If you if if one which I'm not well if one is going to run one do they have to have their petition? Oh, thank you for reminding me. I have my Yep, I'll sign January what 20 because that that'll have to happen for In order to get on the warning Right, but that'll have to happen for for this new seat for the resignation of bridge. Yeah Well, no, otherwise not for some not for us appointing someone who applies, but then again, they have to do it. You're right. Yes That's a otherwise they'd have to be right in they have to be right in Have a hard time appointing somebody and having them get there By what date again? January what 20th 20th. Yeah, well very short time Well, if you have a meeting If you have a meeting on the 9th You might already have a candidates by then. Well, nine through the 16th I'm sorry. You've got the 16th two which is before 16th. So And then we could also have an emergency meeting if we needed to. All right, so you can It won't be that bad and then they you know, it's only 15 signatures That's good. Not going to be a long term for that for that appointment No, that's right. What was her meeting in February? That's it. Yep What do you say for that appointment? Yeah, that would be a short but short term In case anything happens. We would hate to not have a quorum Okay, uh, I understand that Any other matters that may come before the board Peter's head is gone Is he okay? Didn't fall on the floor or anything Are you having fun in colorado? Okay, have you Uh, not quite yet. Is there anything else that we want to talk about before we adjourn? Okay, this meeting is adjourned at 704. It was supposed to end at 7 30. So let's give another cheer Alrighty