 Right now, the government around the world is trying to fight the pandemic of COVID-19. And what we can learn from the case of Taiwan, which has been recognized as one of the most successful place in fighting with COVID-19. And right now, we have Digital Minister of the Executive Yuan, Taiwan, Audrey Tang is joining us. Thank you, Audrey, for joining us. Hi, Audrey. How are you? Very well. Okay. I was just talking that we can see each other very well with video conference compared to face-to-face with a mouse. We would get that in the conference, right? So Audrey, we would like to start by asking you whether it's still too premature to say that Taiwan has won or at least is on its way to winning the war against the novel coronavirus or is it too early to celebrate? I think what we can say is that we have a successful model so far, and we are willing to help the world with the public health epidemic control capacity for a building. This is not saying that we will continue to be as successful. Of course, we hope that we are. But what we're saying is that the measures that we're taking is and can and if being successfully replicated elsewhere in the world. But the signs are positive for you, right? The signs are positive. Yeah, of course. All right. It would be very helpful, I mean, if you can take us back to the early stage of the fight against this virus. Of course, as you mentioned, Gunata mentioned that Taiwan has been touted for, it's very successful fight against the virus. So it's okay. Take us back, I mean, to see how you began and to start fighting this virus. Okay. We started very early. We started last year, whereas most countries started this year. We started last year when the social media signals tells us something very unusual is happening to you. And so we've been able to investigate and discover signs of people to people, human to human transmission. We informed the WHO of that through email, but it's not really treated until very late in the game. But we started taking the God as if it's exactly the same as the virus virus because you can see, back in 2003, we had the SARS epidemic and it killed 37 people in Taiwan. And we decided that it's 37 people, too many. So we have a mobilization plan, including complete clinical and technical mechanisms and centralized decision making and efficient integration and coordination, which is what we discovered after SARS that what we needed all along. And so when this time happened, we treated without knowing anything about the new SARS virus exactly the same as SARS, so we began very early on in monitoring at the airport and making sure that everybody learned again about hand sanitation and not wearing. Yeah. But you're starting early. It could also be a problem because people might be suspicious as to why you need to be so experienced without these measures, right? I'm sure there must be some questions from the public. Actually, for people who are of a certain age, who are about 30 years old, SARS is a collective memory and it's a painful memory. And so soon as the government says it has the potential of being a human to human transmission and the occasion of thought. Actually, the people clamored for the government to do more. That's called a complaint. But they complained that we're not doing enough. It's the other side of the problem. And so people complained that we should completely, for example, prevent air travel between second fire PRC and Taiwan and things like that. And we have to keep it a little bit balanced. So the people were there supporting the government from the very beginning? They're actually making sure that the government delivers more when it comes to anticipating the outbreak because in Taiwan, the social sector, the civil society is really a robot and we have a very thriving journalistic community. And so the journalists, just like detectives, serve as the early warning system. We rely on the journalistic community to warn of the potential issues when it comes to the outbreak. And so I think the journalistic community, in addition to the NHIC into a central carnivation system, is one of the clearer of the Taiwan climate. Minister Audrey, it was quite early response to the virus. How did you manage in terms of communications to the whole country? And did you see it as the long-term strategy or you saw it as emergency response in the beginning? Yes. So we have a comprehensive counter-information plan. And the plan can be summarized in very simple three words. We put humor over rumor. And so we make sure that the Ministry of Health and Welfare has the folks dog. And so every day, during the press conference, when the Central Epidemic Control Center commander, the Minister of Health and Welfare, answers all the press conference questions and he leaves no questions unanswered. He answers everything, relying on journalists as a partner. Right after the press conference, which is already translated into a fine language at the one, it's translated into very simple captured parts by the folks dog for MOHW so that it can become very funny. It makes people laugh about it. And so people are willing to sharing this information, including on how to wash their hands properly and so on. And so this kind of comic review, those makes people more participatory, but also makes the idea easier to remember. What was the most harmful type of rumors or fake news around? Yeah, in Taiwan, with this information and rumor, we don't want to say the F words because we don't want to avianate journalists. So the most harmful information stems from the idea that somehow people can, for example, there was a trending rumor that says, if you please share, you can get a box of masks for free sponsored supposedly by a mass manufacturer. This is a skin actually, phishing ads. It's making sure that people who are not sure where the masks like are, and they entail that they share their private information. Of course, none of the people who share these masks, but they may receive instead computer virus. And so this is actually very harmful. And the way to counter this in addition to a very funding pneumatic message is just to work with the civil society so that everybody can view with their phone looking at a real map, a real time map, and see which pharmacies near them still have masks in store and back. And so they can just collect nine masks for adults and 10 starting tomorrow, and they can see the soft level dropped by nine or 10 and verifying that this is a participatory ledger that helps everybody accountable. And so they will not fall into victim into the online scam that lures them into sharing their private information. So overall, Taiwan didn't have trouble of must short hate at all. So at the very beginning, we used to have, because our production capability was not enough, the time we have maybe a million and a half a day. But now we are 10 times that number we produce easily 15 millions a day. And so yes, although it is not like completely the same number as the number of Taiwanese citizens, we are 23 million people after all. But with some creative way of prolonging mass use, we can satisfy most of our everyday needs. So to where or not to where mass has never been in Taiwan, right? I like in some other Western countries that you debate whether or not people on the street should wear masks or not. There's a one way cited study, not only the WHO but in other health circles, that if people wear masks, but they don't know how to watch hands properly, that it's maybe counterproductive, because people may feel a sense of safety, but actually they touch their mouth and touch their face even more. But instead of saying, oh, we cannot trust the people. So we could say maybe not very are they know what we should do to make head sanitation a very trendy, very hip thing to do. And so we have like lyrics and lines and songs like Nei Wai Da Gong Da Ri Wan, which is the seven so that everybody remembers on how to watch their hands properly and so on. Ensuring that mass use is safe to recommend to people. Obviously, Taiwan has done a lot and done it quite early. What's the latest situation? Andre right now in Taiwan. Can you really say that it's under control? Yeah, the latest situation very clearly put is that people are feeling calm about it. And this is the most important thing. People are feeling that they know daily via the press conference. For example, today, we have three more cases. And two of them are from abroad visitors. Yesterday, we have three confirmed cases, all of them are from abroad visitors and so on. And the numbers are really transparent. And we know that the contact tracing works really well, so that all of the visitors, if they happen to overlap with other people by way of mobile phone signal of the major telecoms, the contact tracing can anticipate who need to be tested and the one. And so it's a very flexible system. I wouldn't say that it is like completely a success, but I'm feeling that people are generally feeling very confident that the contact tracing system is working as intended. In crisis like this, Andre, trust in the government is very important. You mentioned about our authorities in your country have been straightforward and truthful with with answering questions regarding to the situation. What other factors do you think have contributed to building trust in the government? Yes. So in Taiwan, we always say that the government should first trust the citizens with open data, with journalistic assets and so on. And then the people can trust back. We're not asking for blind trust. We're earning for the citizens trust. Two other factors in addition to this trust and working with journalism, I think are important. The first is that there's a very accessible, national single payer health care, the NHI system that covers the entire population, as well as most of the migrant workers, as well as foreign people resident in Taiwan, and ensure that people will happily go to a clinic if they show a symptom wearing a mask. They will not think about, oh, this would cause me a fortune or this is very unpredictable. And so when they know that the national health system will cover for everything, including the free tests that are needed for it to be all negative before they can get the hospital life, if they do get a confirmed case. So the NHI system is very important. That's the first one. The second one is that the political command system is very frequent because the head of the things that the commander is advised by our vice president, Dr. Chen Jianren, and Dr. Chen Jianren literally wrote the textbook using Taiwan on epidemiology. So he is certainly scientific authority and a political authority. So there can be no one that overruled me, Chen Jianren, when it comes to the police health decision, and he needs all the papers and published by himself. Okay, speaking with full authority on the subject. Audrey, but in this crisis like this, you said you have to earn trust from Taiwanese population. But what's the issue of the dilemma between national security and privacy issue? How do you draw the line and still earn trust from people? Yes, so we make sure that we have a legal basis that would tell people if you are, for example, under home current things, then your mobile phone signal will be monitored by the telecoms. And there is no off in nor is there an off out. It is just something that you're informed that we're building this system. But once you're outside of the foreign thing, then we no longer have the legal basis to run the system. And this is again, very clearly communicates as of how it works and why the black and so going fully transparent about the whereabouts of the system from the designers viewpoints, fully communicating the ramifications to the journalists. I think that is also very important to build public trust. So I'm not saying that everybody agrees with that. 91% of people support these measures. That means 9% of people still don't support these measures. And we're not resting on laurels, we're making sure that we come even advance technologies to prevent, you know, the privacy harm that may cause by this new norm. Let's see. Audrey, my country, Thailand is now under partial lockdown and under a six hour curve field. And still people still have problems complying with all these restrictions imposed so far. So what about in Taiwan? What kind of restriction do you have and how cooperative people have been in complying with these these measures? At the present stage, we're mostly advising social distancing. And so for indoor meeting, we have to be one meter and a half across. For outdoor is one meter across. And people are working very well to comply. Actually, even more strict than the government byline, the government says wearing a mask, and you can wave with social distance. So people are keeping the social distance even when wearing a mask. What about travel, the commuting, the daily commuting by the people? Is everything restricted? Everything is normal. It's normal. People can go to work during the day. Yes, they can work. We will still have school open. We understand that we're one of the like six countries that still have all the levels of new. What about you? What about you? Are you working from home or you just go to the office like normal days? Yeah, I'm in the administration. I'm in the cabinet building in the executive unit right now and using the teleconferencing software. Yesterday, we just found one. And so we have to teach all the interviewers that want to use Zoom, how to switch the software. That also took some time. But does the pandemic have any immediate impact on the economy and business sectors in Taiwan? Well, obviously for air travel and tourism, and everything depends on the service industry. It has been very hard to do. And we've had special budgets that allocate a significant portion of the GDP to make sure that they can keep them afloat to build the air. When the coronavirus situation clears, we want to make sure that people, after taking this time, not entirely off, but use this opportunity to do digital transformation to get used to the online kind of working. And then they can serve their original customers, but in addition to that digital online customers as well. What kind of lessons from your experience that you think you can share with countries like Thailand? Yeah, I think clear and timely policy communication is the single best thing that we are sharing with the world, including acute spoke stock, very important and partnership with the journalism community, because the journalism community serves as the accountability branch that wants everything in advance. And do you still have press briefing? Do you still have daily press briefing nowadays to communicate with people? Of course, and sometimes quite the day, but mostly people look forward to the daily press conferences, and they can also type during the live chat in the YouTube chatroom. What have been the more critical questions from the media community? Yeah, many media community nowadays are asking the Central Epidemic Control Center, what is like what case scenario are we prepared for? So far we have only very likely exercised this very advanced, like widespread community stress, and it's a bit of luxury, of course, but the media is also thinking that maybe we're living life in a much more truly relaxed manner. It's too good to be true. The seriousness of the situation, and if you have a community, let's say, outbreak, is the clinic going to be overwhelmed because everybody doesn't have the psychological consideration for it, or I would feel mobilizing or strong and resilient if that they have it. That's the most important question. Otre, you are digital minister, and how do you see the future of the world after this pandemic has finished? The future of work, future of economy. How do you see it? Okay, so I first say that I need to attend to another meeting, maybe one minute from now, but I would just take a couple of minutes and then I will dial back and I'll break shortly. But I think this kind of multitasking is unimaginable before COVID, if I'm in your studio, I cannot say that, oh, I have that emergency call, and then I will break a minute and then I will reappear magically in the studio, but because of the digital tools, this kind of multitasking is becoming the norm in everyday work. And so people are getting used to how to clear their preconceptions about, for example, video conferencing being very blurred, being very lacking, being very low quality, but now, as you can see now, it's very high quality and I can see perfectly, and so it's clear people's preconceptions about video conferencing. Audrey, the pandemic has again brought up the question of Taiwan's role in international organizations, and of course in this present context, in the World Health Organization. So how do you think the aftermath of this pandemic will help in Taiwan's role? I know Taiwan has been eager and in fact it is doing a lot in helping the world coping with this pandemic. So you think the whole thing will have a positive effect on Taiwan's role in the future? Definitely, and it's not just that Taiwan can help, Taiwan is already helping. Through a series of joint statements and bilateral collaborations, we are contributing to the global health community already. But what we want to say specifically is how we work with the social sector, the private sector, the academia and the journalism community, I think that part, across the whole of collaborations, instead of everything relying on one single central component, is the main module that we want to share. Already in Thailand, I joined a workshop run by PBS and later on a workshop at the Gerard Ongoing University talking about exactly this kind of thing that cooperates. And so I think this kind of collaboration is what we want to share in the world and maybe the multilateral organizations can learn from this kind of multi-stakeholder collaboration even more. Okay, thank you very much, Audrey Thuong, for joining us and for your time. We know that you are very busy, but we have learned a lot from you and from Taiwan. Thank you very much. Thank you. So that's coming from Audrey Thuong and she showed how Taiwanese government has been very agile in coping with the COVID-19 very early on, even before Wuhan has announced to lock down the whole city. And that's because Taiwan has quite experienced in SARS in 2003 and how to cope with it.