 inshallah I wanted to let you know that we are in Ramadan as we come up to the next Ramadan we will be reaching our two-year mark which is incredible to think about how really this project was essentially born out of the time of the pandemic. SubhanAllah we have an organization an advisory board that's in the Bay Area if you're aware of it it's called the Bay Area Muslim Mental Health Advisory Community Advisory Board. Community Advisory Board is CAB so we call it the CAB and this is from Public Health and Mental Health Research that one of the best things you can do in a community is make sure that there are people who are advisors who are not part of any one organization some of them are part of the field so in our case part of the mental health there are clinicians but the other group of the advisory board are really members of the community like all of you we have a dentist we have an attorney we have teachers we have Sunday School teachers we have an email we have different people who have been part of our community advisory board on mental health issues there's a group meets regularly and what's really nice about them is that they advise on various things related to mental health so seven eight nine years ago it's been not long actually that we've had the CAB running and meeting they said we really need to bring a clinic to the Bay Area related to mental health and now we were able to initiate that and in the pandemic when things got a little bit tough we were able to they were able they actually came back the CAB this advisory board came together and said we really need something local to the Bay Area so not necessarily fully planning to do another clinic but here madistan was born because this advisory board asked that we do this they also much a lot of advice and some really wonderful other initiatives that were educational bringing Islam in with mental health so in many ways this organization madistan is really homegrown it's grown from the Bay Area it's grown by your support in your doors and the need that we have here I also wanted to mention to you that part of our updates by way of updates is we have been teletherapy virtual for the last couple of years now and and many people were not really ready to do one-on-one in-person therapy again but now Mashallah things are opening up and so we're very happy to announce to you alhamdulillah that the office here at the MCC East Bay now has a branch for madistan in person and I hope inshallah after you're done with this panel that to please walk with us we'll take you on a little tour and actually show you the office and then that's furnished it's ready to go and inshallah our therapist will actually be seeing people directly in that office inshallah we will continue to have the online services as well and if you were here earlier in the day you might have heard me share a little bit about my dream and the dream is alhamdulillah we one step at a time one step at a time our first step is to have you know our partners like an MCC to have a local in here in person madistan clinic office but in the future what we hope to add to that is to actually literally from the ground up design and build an actual madistan people say what is best what is this word that you keep saying so I'll say inshallah and forgive me if you've heard this before but what it is is Maristad is the shortened latinized word for a word in our tradition so if you speak farsi or Urdu you know the word bimad bimad is sickness illness and so on stand location so the bimad is Stan are the centers for healing somebody who's ill the madistan shortened is madistan and that's where we got our name is inspiration in arabic they were called daughter she thought same idea odd location of she thought healing in Islamic history some of my research in the work of my team at the lab Michelle Bob we've been really working and actually we're writing a book at the moment on what is a madistan and what is the history and how what it is Muslims contribute it's really phenomenal Michelle Bob but not only did they create the madistans but they actually had inside of their hospitals along with physical illness you know your your organs anything related to bones anything related to surgery was there of course as any hospital but in addition the Muslims were the first to add mental health the first psychiatric wards and this is incredible because it's at a time where the people before them other religious traditions or even the Greeks and the Romans and other civilizations that came before them didn't do this there's something about Islam that allows for holistic healing mind body soul connected to each other and you don't take them apart so they didn't discriminate between physical illness and mental illness it's in the same healing center that the madistan and today you can still visit some of these if you go ever to Istanbul there are still some standing that from the later years before the Ottoman Empire fell you still see them out of stands there you can see them still in Cairo you can see them in certain countries in which they're actually still there and you can see the remnants of what used to be the psychiatric wards did you know this I had no idea when I first began this work had no idea we had no idea we even had a tradition like this and so with that sisters and brothers that's what's going to start our discussion on their panel today the suggestion on mental illness and mental health and why don't we know our tradition and what happened really to us and also bridging certain each one of us has a certain amount of conversation we're going to have about therapy and about seeking help but I wanted to begin the conversation with what is that history and why are we deciding to revive something that is historical but I think they actually got it right today modern medicine is very segmented very much so you feel kind of disjointed right it's not very holistic in its healing and our scholars understood that if you're going to heal the mind and you're going to heal the body you're going to have to have the spirit part of it to their religion the Dean as part of it as well and you're going to heal all of the senses together the sound the sight the feeling the emotions all of it connected so how do you create this this is what we're setting out to do step-by-step our first step is reviving the Muslims tradition of talk therapy right which they actually created it's upon all and developed and really furthered and then keep adding to it the other aspects of holistic healing so that is a good segue to my topic that I other than the introduction that I wanted to mention to you today and I'll do my section and show them and pass the mic to the others on the panel and hopefully towards and we'll take your questions as well speaking of holistic healing one of the questions that always comes up is isn't it enough to have good email isn't it enough to be a good Muslim and one who prays shouldn't this be sufficient do we really need to go to doctors do we really need to go get extra help and I'll add to that also the question of if a person if I or someone in my family starts to not feel well and they're actually not doing well to mental health wise should I just read Quran over them or have somebody read Quran over them a rope here shouldn't that be sufficient do we really need to have a medical model of healing essentially and it's interesting because if you had told me it was a broken leg or told me that person had diabetes you would have no issue taking them to the doctor to set their leg or to give them insulin right or some of the other medications yet we get stuck right here it comes to mental health and we get stuck we get so stuck and we say why are they so lazy they're not getting off the bed or off the couch not realizing this could be something that's actually clinically diagnosed as depression I'm telling you even doctors have the stigma they literally trained in the medical system and it comes all the way up into this way I say get better stop being so lazy get off for a minute well I have seen this even from the educated what is it about how sometimes we get so stuck in our ways that we don't see and understand this so inshallah this is what I want to share with you the word for reading Quran over somebody is called Roqya Roqya different cultures have different terms for this this is the Sunnah word that we find that the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ had actually done Roqya over himself and others and what did he do he took parts of the Quran in which he would read or tell us to read in order to protect ourselves many of you have the Sunnah habit of reading the three Qulis for example before you go to sleep right or reading ayat of Qursi or maybe other parts of the Quran for protection and this is perfectly fine but you see the Prophet ﷺ did not just stop at Roqya you know why and you know how we know we have to read the tradition the Sida is more you have excuse me the likes of his wife says insha'Allah one who one time one of her family members said so tonight shall we know why it is that you have amazing knowledge related to the lineage she was really good about the lineage of people she could tell you the names of all people and they said we get it you're the daughter of Sayyidina Abu Bakr and he was really good at this this is one of the traits that he had he had a great understanding of this so she learned it from her father and they said we understand why you know to do the rules of Islam you study directly with the Prophet ﷺ literally they said but you she had a lot of knowledge on medicine and they would say how do you where do you get the knowledge on medicine we understand your connection to your father and send your connection to the Prophet ﷺ what is it with medicine and so she said when the Prophet listen very carefully to this when the Prophet ﷺ would get ill the tribes of Arabia would come to him and offer him various medications or various herbs or various things that they would use all the different people would say try this try this in our group and our tradition our tribe and our people this is what we do this is what we do this way and the Prophet ﷺ would use them this is very important he would use them he would prayer yes he would make do or yes he would be real clear yes but he would use them medication see people have lost sight of our own tradition our own Sita do you see what I'm saying and so she said I became so this is deniesha I became so learned in medicine because I saw what the Prophet ﷺ was using and he would tell me to use it or he would tell me when someone would come to them and say we're sick he would say this is not his wife give them this this this and this so she started to learn medicine and use medicine we actually consider her from our tradition one of the earliest of the physicians you know you normally hear Sita Naisha the physician but she was a healer she used these things and she would teach us and tell us when the Prophet ﷺ would have a headache yes he would pray yes he'd make do or yes he would do the Rukia but he'd also take something and tie it around his head to hope his headache he took action and then we have the hadith where he says to us when a better one came to him and said to him that's what Allah if we are sick should we get treatment and he said naam naam Ya Ibad Allah yes O servant of God to seek out treatment and then comes the rest of the hadith you heard me say earlier but Allah ﷻ won't give illness to humanity unless he also gives its treatment or its cure this is powerful so when people say to us is it enough to just do Rukia is it enough to just pray wouldn't that be sufficient and I say that's not the Sunnah the Prophet ﷺ that is not the Sunnah of the Prophet ﷺ and with that starts our discussion on mental health because of the early Muslims built in madistan's mind body soul that had mental health psychiatric health integrated and in with literally whole sections just for mental health the first in human history to do this along with their surgeon words along with their psycho mental health along their eternal medicine words along with them and they were the first they got it they got it where are we we've lost some of our tradition haven't we we lost our understanding of our own legacy haven't we SubhanAllah and we're here to revive that we're here you all are here to revive this inshaAllah this is our plan this is the dream it may be a little bit of a pie in the sky but nothing's too big for Allah right nothing's too small nothing's too big for Allah my dream and my intention before Allah takes me off this earth inshaAllah is to bring back and revive this blueprint that the Muslims got right in the first place and bridge it to our modern science and research and bring the two together and the Muslims would be back at the forefront where they used to be say oh say I mean I mean Allah ma'a I mean Barak allahu feekal inshaAllah I'll pass the mic to the others and each will say a little bit about this discussion and then we will have your questions. Barak allahu feekal. Salaikum thank you so much for you know being here and I'm being a part of this really important conversation I'm gonna briefly cover topic of individual therapy and then inshaAllah sister Nozad and Hamid will go through the rest so basically individual therapy how I like to see it is it's our path to wellness and it's an opportunity for a one-on-one for one-on-one sessions with the therapist to really address our mental health and our mental well-being and you know it can be really anything that we want it to be of course there's a process of like intake assessment and you know identifying goals and a treatment plan but what happens in therapy and what goals we set and how much progress we make really depends a lot on us and it is very much very unique to each individual and yeah and so that's really important to keep in mind because sometimes you know we get asked questions especially when we do consultations about you know whether I as a therapist will like give you answers or solve certain problems and usually my answer is we're going to work together at that and so the process really involves us gaining more insight about ourselves what are some presenting challenges and what are some steps that we can take to cope and resolve those challenges and of course as Muslims we all believe that you know we're gonna face challenges that's that's not gonna be we're not able to avoid challenges in life and our responsibility as Dr. Rania explained this to really take action and becoming addressing the challenges overcoming learning ways to cope and really become the best version of ourselves and I do believe that individual therapy really provides that opportunity and oftentimes what I tell individuals who may be reluctant of course as we know there's a lot of stigma about mental health is you know mental therapy is not really about mental illness meaning you know it's not necessarily about having a serious psychiatric you know diagnosis but rather a path a journey towards mental well-being right and what I usually advise individuals who may be reluctant is give it a try and honestly I have never had anyone who came back to me and said I tried it and it's not for me I hated it because it's really oftentimes the feedback that I get is wow that felt really good and it's not these are not individuals who work with me sometimes family members community members who may need it but you know oftentimes we find ourselves stuck in certain situations and of course it's very easy to say like this is what's meant to be this is my destiny this is what our law wills and not be afraid to take the steps but when we take the steps I think that road is really amazing and oftentimes again the feedback that I've gotten is I'm glad I tried it because it helped me get to know myself better and also learn the skills and the tools to really just make the progress and help me be where I want to be in life and sometimes in therapy what happens is when we work with individuals it may be that we recognize that there may be challenges that stem from relationships right and family work and so if it's challenges that we can work on individually of course that's what individual therapy is and oftentimes when it stems from you know other factors like for example family marriage children then we we may refer that client to either couples therapy or family therapy and you know with that I'll hand over the mic to brother Hamid who's gonna talk about couples therapy and what that involves so I'm going to cover about like couple therapy and relationships as my expertise but I was just want to start with the quote that we're not we're not capable of healing in isolation we need other people so what does that mean what does that mean that means like there's no way if you want to go through this journey of healing as sister Sal mentioned alone we need someone as even like a therapy process we are going through the relationship therapeutic relationship with someone else to help us to see some aspect in us that you're not able to see that so this is very important the first part before entering to this journey it's to know about like this is like a journey of get out of the isolation I need support I need other people to help me going through this and this is the way actually human creation that our nervous system our brain are not isolated as interconnected and social as a social human beings we need that connection even that connection sometimes it's helping us to go through this healing and so that that shows the importance of relationship that even like sometimes when we are alone even like that isolation and loneliness it yes it brings so much like struggles to us and it makes us feel like I'm alone in this and this is kind of like a struggle for me so when you see if mentally struggle see the environment and like the relationships so don't see that like if we are going to see the problem in someone we cannot evaluate without assessing the environment and assessing the relationship that that person is into it so that's the importance of relationship and even in a healing journey we need to see and work on the relationships and not only we see the problems in the relationship that struggles me personally but also in general when I'm in a good relationship help the relationship that helps me to easier go through my personal journey right so it's important to like actually when when I going through something to like ask for help not for other but also from my family members from my partner from my spouse to help me through this journey and sometimes ask them invite them to go through like family therapy or or sometimes like couple therapy and in couple therapy sometimes like not helping me to have like a healthy relationship not helping me to like go through those struggles that I have in my relationship but also it can help me to go through my personal things that I struggle with because it's like a dark room that I'm not alone because I have my therapist also I have my spouse with me through this and if you like as we all know as the sister saw mentioned in the visual therapy all techniques all interventions very helpful but we need to consider that this person go to like to his family go to his like relationships and if there's anything going on there there's no way that I can feel okay and I'm going to come back again with those struggles and like not going through the healing after that so one thing that consider like when we need to consider even when we talk about couple therapy but sister Nessa is going to cover about family therapy is that even if you see something going on with your kids that's very good to seek for support for like child therapists to work with them individually but actually most importantly when you see something going on in your kids is most importantly that comes from the family and the dynamic between the family members and sometimes even from what they are observing as a kid in the family dynamic between their parents right so even like sometimes we encourage the child to ask the parents to come and when we see the parents we see like okay it's good to seek like couple therapists first and work on a relationship because that helps a lot for your kids to go through his struggles or her struggles so it's important to consider that this is not individual process this is like a family process and better like as a couple as a family with the kids and also with others so another quote I just want to talk about is we are hurt in relationship and we healing relationship so if you see some struggles that you are going through like mental mental struggles you can see like most of it comes from the relationships comes from the challenges in the relationship whether at work whether at school whether at like in your relationships so when you are seeing those issues that's great to seek for support individually but it's very important to see like okay this comes from the relationship the hurt comes from the relationship so the healing goes through the through the relationship too so like seeking that support although I know it's really hard because maybe you know about how important it is to work on this but your spouse might not encouraged or not willing to do this but this is like very important to ask and get that support and actually seeking that support from your family member from your spouse from your parents that I want you to be with me through this process I need you to do for this because this is not something as we said to go through it alone and third is one cannot leave at place until one has arrived on it so this is not able to like when I'm feeling something sometimes we tend to like feel like okay it goes away by time so I need to address something that is going on so this is a very important that when I feel something I need to address that if I want to get rid of that feelings that like negative feelings that feelings that I struggle with I need to feel it and this is not something that I can go alone I need support whether from my family members or my therapist to help me to go through this to help me to go through this feelings because our body wants to protect us by actually by by those coping mechanism coping skills to not feel our feelings to not feel those feelings that are hard to feel but therapy one part of therapy that helps us to help us to go through those feelings to feel them and to go through it and I and it's very important to see like okay if I struggle with this I need to address that and even like by talking until to find that balance if I see that a struggle in my relationship I need to address that problem I need to address that things that going on like time never helps us through like a struggles and we need to address whether we are spouses whether we had with our therapists whether we we consider to see for that support from others I just want to cover some questions that we got on Instagram which is related to this topic and that is like okay if we actually know about this thing if you sell we see like a stigma on mental health in our family members and they're not willing for this service they're not willing to go through this how we should address this stigma how should help the house should encourage them to seek therapy or even to come with us through this process and I want to say this that the first things is do not teach other people your family members about how important mental health is just try to experience that and by being yourself by your presence by your being you can help them to feel like okay this works my kid my spouse she went to therapy and she get benefits of I get encouraged to do the same I'm encouraged to like seeking that support so do not teach that and second stigma comes from the feeling some people if they are not willing to seek for the support part of it comes from like I'm scared to go in through this process because I don't know what to expect I don't know like how it's going I don't know like if I going to have a like a good relationship with my therapist I don't know if he understands me I don't know what happens so these are the things that definitely is validated it is really scary to go through this process for the first time so if you see that stigma in your family members try to validate the feelings underneath it try to validate that see I hear you I hear that it is hard for you to talk about your things even like for Muslims they it's really hard to go through like non-Muslim therapists but even if they want to go to the Muslim therapists they feel like that therapist is in our community I'm scared to talk about my like relationship challenges with someone in our community so these are the things that are validated it's not only a stigma is our the feelings underneath that a stigma that that needs to be validated especially from the family members so I encourage you to like if you see these like stigmas to go through what's what's the feeling underneath it and try to address that and try to validate them and validation and like your presence and like reassurance can help your family members to encourage to seek support or pastures to send us up for family it's a joy to be here with you today and to see Madison open their office over here I want to just take a moment to tell you a little bit about myself I work with children a lot of my practice is with kids and parents often bring their kids to us and what I find is the most where I see the most to benefit and where we truly make changes when we work with the entire family we know that families are the foundation of society it's where we acquire our inner voice where we learn about relationships where we learn how to communicate with each other problem solve where we build resilience we learn coping skills by mirroring what we see our parents do right and so when parents bring children to me I often talk about let's work as a family together let's look at the system as well and see what we need to do to make change and there are definitely in our our kids are facing a lot of challenges out there right we're raising our kids in the society some of their values does not reflect our own values there's just different times there's technology there's all these things that make parenting very challenging these days some of those things are within our control and some of them are not what is within our control is creating families in which children feel comfortable and safe in which they develop a healthy self-image and that is within our controls and what a right mind parents is that in order for us to be able to model that for our kids we got to take care of ourselves so that leads me down this road of working with parents and finding out a little bit about themselves and I encourage all of us and I want to remind all of us that a lot of us come from countries in which we're colonized or there's wars going on there are all these we all come from different backgrounds and a lot of us carry trauma and what we don't acknowledge is ourselves sometimes as parents well I just fix my child I'm fine just fix my child but it's very hard to do that because you are primarily who who is you're teaching your child by the way you act by the way you communicate and so working within within ourselves as Saha was saying working individually or even Hamid was talking about working as a couple in your relationship there because that is what our kids are picking up so I really want to just kind of emphasize that to acknowledge ourselves where we were raised there's a lot of trauma in a lot of our community and that shows up as anger conflict and inability to maybe express ourselves and it's really really important that we deal with that first what I thought I just share with you is a couple of tips the there's a lot of extensive research out there that shows that home environments in which there's a lot of conflict and less warmth it leads to greater anxiety and depression and you clean institute where brother Dr. Omar Salaman was just speaking it's his organization and they do a lot of wonderful research they've done a preliminary study in the Muslim American households and they looked at three dimensions in the home environment and I thought we could maybe just talk about those three dimensions briefly and maybe take home some tips and make sure and learn from it so the three dimensions they looked at is cohesion and that's the degree of commitment and support family members provide to one another they looked at expressiveness the extent to which family members are encouraged to express their feelings directly and openly and they looked at conflict the amount of openly expressed anger and conflict amongst family members and they found and I saw I just want to share their finding and maybe take away two points and how can we increase some of these things in our family and how can we decrease some of these things in our family so with cohesion they found that the greater cohesion in the family predicts lower rates of anxiety and depression so you know and that kind of makes sense right if there's more cohesion if everyone feels like they're supported then that is going to make us feel a little less anxious and more connected to people so how is how can we do that in our family where there's some takeaways they came up with coming up with family traditions those are really important right whether they be going hiking on the weekends or family nights or game nights or having traditions around Eid those are things that kids look forward to and expect so it's really important that we try and look at some of that in our lives spending quality time together in the age of cell phones and social medias sometimes we're all in the same room but we're not truly connected having those moments even if it's once a week where we put our phones down have family dinner together or play games with each other where you're actually interacting also simple things like cooking together or when it comes to dinner time cleaning up together setting the table together I come from my parents are from India and I feel like we do a lot of coddling in our culture like everything's done for you but having those responsibilities really early on a it builds independence it gives kids a sense of self-esteem that I contribute to this family and that's an important thing for them to realize that I'm part of this family and I make contributions to it even if it's just setting the table so doing those little things together helps increase cohesion the second thing they looked at is expression you know our do family members feel comfortable are they invited to express themselves so ways that we can make this happen more in our family asking open-ended questions like what do you think happened even if you're reading a storybook to someone stopping in between saying what do you think is gonna happen next why do you think this character did this right and when we speak to them to do what I call whole body listening turning our faces toward them making eye contact getting down at their level those are little things that make people feel heard right avoid the second thing when it comes to communication is avoid reacting a lot of times a kid might be like my life is horrible and we go we jump to know you have a head over you know you have a roof over your shoulder you have food to eat what do you mean your life is horrible and so I'm not saying to agree with them but I'm saying to hear them out and acknowledge that you've actually heard what they said right so when your child comes to you and said everything nothing works oh I'm sorry you feel that way tell me what's going on right it doesn't mean you agree with them it just means that I'm willing to listen to what you have said and once you listen to them you can be like yes that that is tough so how are you going to deal with it well how can I help you of their a lot of times when we listen to our kids we react to them we don't respond to them reaction is like you know they trigger us and we're upset and we respond we react instead of actually responding in an intelligent way or an intentional way not intelligent but in an intentional way and also initiate conversations on things that you might consider a taboo subjects because if they don't get it from you they're gonna get it from YouTube or Google so it's really important to open those means of communicating have family nights have family meetings in which you discuss even little things like let's take a family trip together what is your opinion the last thing the area that they looked at was conflict and they found that the greater the conflict in family predict predicts higher rates of depression and anxiety and so I don't mean to say that are all our that disagreements don't happen in the family of course we all will have different ways of looking at things but how do we handle it is it a lot of yelling and screaming or do we create avenues in which we explain to kids that we all have our feelings we all have our emotions validate them name your own it's okay to say I'm really angry right now I need to take a break right because our kids will do things that anger us conflict happens in families but how do we handle it and what we need to do first is look at ourselves figure out what's happening internally for us and then help our kids regulate ourselves first and then help our kids regulate and problem solve and also just modeling how do you recover when from when you have a disagreements because disagreements happen when I'm angry I am not my best self I have three kids there are moments where I probably reacted in a way that I shouldn't have can we come back from to that right can I go am I able to go back to them and said say listen you know the reaction I just had that was probably over the top I am sorry and we've got to be able to say that and look internally and look at what keeps us from doing that right what are our beliefs about conflict and work on ourselves so with that I'm just gonna say that a lot of times people bring their kids and please do take your kids but also be willing to look at ourselves ourselves as adults and what's going on for us okay thank you everyone for being here I'm gonna try to keep it nice and short and then inshallah we'll pass on to our last panelist and then we want to make sure that we get time to answer all of your questions and so I've just been kind of taking notes in the background as everybody's been talking because you know and I think one of the first thing that came to mind was a few weeks back brother Hamid me and sister Tiffany were at Berkeley and we were having a beautiful discussion with about 50 Berkeley students and it was a beautifully mixed crowd so we didn't have a predominantly female you know turnout it was it was great and I'll remember this one question a brother asked and I think Hamid kind of addressed it and we all just supported and he said you know I want to be we were we were in this discussion about being humble and embodying you know the prophet's body language and the way that he approached conflict and the way he spoke to his you know people and family and the environment around him and his companions and he said I really want to be like that but I don't know how to tell my parents that I don't want to be this like male figure that everybody thinks I should be how do I how do I come with this humbleness and how do I approach things with the sincerity that the prophet had and how do I take that back to my elders and say this is how I want to be and it's from the dean and we kind of like all just paused and we looked at him and we're like it was such a pure question and you know we we said what we're always told in the dean right when you want to tell somebody Islam is a religion of purity you embody purity and when you tell people Islam is an honest religion you act with honesty and all that you do in all the situations that you're a part of and he kind of just took us back and he's like you know okay and it's it's not it's easy for you know us to kind of sometimes sit and say things and then when the reality comes you know when when you're in that situation and you're really trying to respond and it could look very differently but I'm I am not a parent and so I usually come at things and my discussion is usually based around the child of parents and I always encourage parents you know you should really think about what your child is not telling you because they're having discussions in these social circles they're having them at their msa's and in their classrooms and in discussion posts and things are going to come up and just like you know sister no sad kind of talked about the introduction of social media we're all self-diagnosing ourself on social media they're tick-tock doctors are thing and it's happening and I promise you they're doing it to their parents too I've heard so many kids say I wish my parents would just go to therapy because I know they need it I wish we could do family therapy but my family's not open to it my mom is like this we don't need this my dad is like never home and I can't get him to to even sit in a room and have a conversation with me and so we force different connections and my brain I work at Dr. Ania's lab and it's it's an honor to do research there but my primary area of research is an addiction research and when we're not building healthy connections we're building unhealthy ones because we are a list of how they created us as social beings we are very social we love community mashallah and Islam embodies that so if I'm not getting a healthy connection with my Oma I will create unhealthy ones and it's not it's not a fault in in the individual and it's not laziness it's because we internally will yearn for this connection and I always say you know substances are non-discriminatory they don't care what you look like and they don't care where your education levels at they you will always have access and it will always work and the day that it doesn't you just take a little bit more and then we're down you know a really difficult path and then parents say I'm taking my kid to therapy I'm like wow you know could I could have just thought about it a little bit earlier sometimes and your kid I promise you at some point your kid has hinted to you that they want this they wish you would do it and they've had this conversation with you they may have not come out and set it up front and that goes to sister no sets point of the importance of establishing a safe environment at home for your kids to be open and your kids to feel safe and say I'm really struggling with this and you're there and you're looking them in the eye and you're not like yeah hold on on the phone because that I'm sure we've all if you're on social media there's this like really predominant image that continues to circulate about a son who approaches his dad when he's very very young and he's like dad come play with me and the dad's like not now and he's kind of on his laptop in the background and then he goes back and then he's like every every panel photo is the kid getting a little bit older and eventually the kid is a teenager and he's you know in a very dark environment as the graphic depicts and the dad says son let's talk and the son says not now because for years he's been trying to get his father's attention and for years he's been trying to connect with him and then when the dad wants to now turn around and connect that opportunity you know inshallah it's never lost and with with dua prayer and professional support it is never a lost opportunity and it's not a lot I've had people call the clinic and they're like I'm 55 and I'm ready and I'm like great let's go because the ages doesn't matter it's when you're when you're ready we're there and it's all aspects and importantly Allah is there you know and I want to I want to say that that's the most important aspect in all of this is having that pure intention that this is a part of my Dean I'm not doing something that violates my you know the way that I am as a Muslim I'm not doing something that violates my right to my family or my wife or my husband or any of that this year you're doing them much a lot of great favor I swear I wish I could say that and emphasize that enough because as a child and you know I I worked with a lot of youth here at MCC I did a talk just in the conference room a few years back on addiction and at a brother tell me he came up to me and he said something he's like I haven't said that to somebody in 15 years in 15 years he had never shared that and he shared it right here in the message and this so it's happening it's real and you know brother Hamid touched on this and I really want to just emphasize the importance of us seeing ourselves I don't know if if anybody's like this but sometimes you think okay this is this is like my role as a husband and this is my role as a father and those are distinct roles but you don't necessarily change in all of that right you're bringing you to every single one of these scenarios so sometimes you look at you know something that might come up in individual therapy but it really makes you a better partner and it really makes you a better father and it really makes you a better employee and a better manager and across the board as you continue to get better and you and you know you kind of support yourself everybody your circles gonna start to change because that support permeates through all your relationships and so it's really important to also consider like when your kids are you know Michelle I would imagine parenting is a very difficult thing so it's okay to come to therapy and say I'm just I'm exhausted like I'm burnt out I've got three kids I've got a full-time job you know inflation whatever it is you know you're coming you're coming in that's what your therapist really is there for and I'll tell you like I'm very open like I go to therapy and I'm totally I love it and every time something happens at home my husband's like just talk to your therapist about it because for him it's a one-stop shop whatever comes up I'm like you know my therapist is not like you know an MD or like an across-the-board everything doctor and he's like no no no but it doesn't matter because it's that's my space and so I can go there and I can talk about whatever and do whatever and I promise you one of the most beautiful things is I've never asked a question in therapy that I didn't get an answer for because if one person doesn't know the community is so tight-knit it's sister knows that this one of our supervisors we've got Dr. Rania Mashallah who's well connected herself and just everybody else so if we have questions at the clinic or if one of our clinicians has a question that comes up and we're like we don't 100% know how to answer this we're like we will find somebody who knows the answer to that and it will be professional and it will be it will be following all the right legalities and confidentiality and protecting our clients and protecting our community but also making sure we're getting you the best possible information that you need not just something that oh we think it's this no we're I promise you there's so you have a one-on-one with your therapist but your therapist is in the background working hours after years of education they're working hours to make sure that the care that you get is real and it's it's grounded in Islam and it's grounded in the professional you know in the field and the legalities of what we you know everything that we do and I'll end with this and I said this at Berkeley too because I felt you know I'm sitting with a lot of students a lot of them were new to Berkeley it was their first year and they were really struggling with the notion of you know are we really all connected as we as we seem to be and I was like absolutely and when the new year came you know there's this there was a beautiful quote it circulated all over Instagram and what it said was it's not fair that we laughed together but you cried alone and so kind of coming back and recognizing that the people who you share laughter with enjoy and you go to the message with check in on those people check in on them and ask them like how are you doing and not just like how are you doing and passing while you're putting your shoes on it's like stop you know look at them ask them how are you doing and if you notice changes in their behavior hey I've noticed like we haven't gone to the message together in a few days or you know I know I've noticed you've been coming to classes a little a little late are you okay is there something that I can do you know and and build that build that relationship one of the hardest things to tell somebody is you're the only one who can help yourself Masha'Allah this is not true we have a start we and then we have such a robust educated well-resourced community so look around you look at the people in the room when I was at Berkeley I said there's about 50 50 of you that means 49 people can offer any one person help at any given moment and that stands true for this community it stands true within your households and so recognize that you know your household is a unit it's your it's your little masha'Allah baby community right so so whatever you take outside when you leave your house whatever you take outside bring it back with you and sit down and have those conversations with your kids you're all here today Masha'Allah when you go home maybe not today it's a little exhausting and a few days sit with your kids talk to them if you're a child sit with your parents mom I just want to go out for coffee with you I feel like I miss you haven't seen you in a while maybe you saw her yesterday it doesn't matter just make that space and in turn it's this like beautiful reciprocal relationship I make time for you and you make time for me there's a responsibility on both sides as a child to a parent as a parent to a child right so insha'Allah that's of benefit I'm going to pass it on to Jannah who's going to talk a little more about our clinic and insha'Allah get support right to your fingertips Bismillah assalamu alaikum everyone so the scope of the work that I do at Maristan is very much taking all of this amazing theory and putting it into practice it's great to theorize and to know the background of certain things but at the end of the day we have to actually implement and do the work in order to truly benefit so I'm going to speak to a few kind of apprehensions or things that I come across I'm kind of the first stop along the way to your therapist I'll answer the phone I'll answer the emails kind of get everyone that comes in and get them to their first appointment one thing that we see a lot and this is something that a few people have mentioned is this concern about confidentiality we are a community clinic we're a community organization a lot of us know each other from our message communities maybe a therapist up here might be your family auntie or uncle or something like that and there's a lot of times this shame about sharing things with our community because we don't want to get outed or oh my gosh am I going to see my therapist at Jumaan they're going to go put my business on blast or whatever it is which first of all I just want to validate that that is a very real concern um when I was sharing a little bit about her personal therapy experience I myself saw my first therapist at the college that I went to and I freaked out when I saw her and they're on the community I was like oh my god my mom was here she's telling my mom that I was snitching on her and it just it stressed me out and I didn't want to go again and it was a whole thing and that's a very valid concern because a lot of us we only a lot knows what's truly in everybody's lives and what's truly in everybody's hearts but that should never be a preventer to getting the help that you need and as Muno was saying obviously there's certain legalities of therapy in terms of we are all bound by the law of California even myself is not practicing clinician I still had to sign paperwork once I was hired in terms of protecting everybody's information protecting everybody's confidentiality um so don't let that be something that will prevent you from getting the help that you need everybody that's sitting up here before you behaves in the utmost professional um and as a type of manner where anything that you share in a session even if you were to just come up to one of us afterwards and we're not in an official session you haven't signed paperwork we still take that as an amana obviously again it's a legal law but before that it's an amana because we are each other's keepers we are each our brothers keepers our sisters keepers where anything that I shared is truly a sacred trust between you and your therapist between you and god that will never ever be broken um another thing that I come across is there's a lot of individuals that have a fear that they don't have control in the situation and control is something that a lot of us can struggle with right we're still kind of coming in a post-pandemic world where a lot of our worlds were thrown upside down and we didn't have this aspect of control so we feel afraid that a therapist is going to make us do something that we don't want to do they're going to tell us something and now we have to do it um this is something I learned from brother hamid that he kind of brings up a lot in some of his work with couples therapy is people yeah they just don't want to be told what to do where they're like oh my therapist is going to force me to do something or they're going to tell my spouse this or they're going to tell my family that but at the end of the day it's it's purely you're going to get out of it what you put into it if you want to get better you will get better but if you're apprehensive and you're not willing to share and you're not willing to learn or be open then you're not going to get the greatest return on your investment really um so whenever i'm speaking to clients especially if they're a first-timer they've never been to therapy before I always just let them know how much is really in their control if you don't like the first therapist that you had a consultation with great let me say you up with someone else everyone is a different we all have different personalities aptitude strengths weaknesses um don't let the first experience be the only one if it didn't work for you where we have so many different people that work with us so you have to give it sometimes more than one chance um the first session didn't go great all right let's try it again and you have to communicate your needs right something my great grandma laia always says is closed mouths don't get fed so if whatever help it is that you need you have to ask for and you can even tell your therapist sometimes i tell my therapist like i'm not really rocking with this right now let's talk about this instead or you know it kind of makes me uncomfortable when we use this approach how about we do this and a good therapist in which everyone sitting up here is a great one masha'Allah they're going to be very receptive and they're going to be able to meet you where you're at and serve your needs so that way it doesn't feel like you're a little kid who's in time out because that's not what therapy is at all you're there to learn and you're there to benefit and it really is entirely on your terms in terms of what you want to cover what you want to talk about and what you want to get out of it and the last thing is really just being open and having not being afraid to just try something new i that's another thing that i come across as well as there's a lot of people that are just very apprehensive to trying something new and something that my therapist always tells me and that most therapists will tell you is that sometimes you're going to feel worse on your way to feeling better and that's okay that doesn't mean that it's not working that doesn't mean that you're doing therapy wrong there's no way to do therapy wrong sometimes it is uncomfortable sometimes you're going to sit in your session and you might cry or you might bring up uncomfortable thoughts or memories or feelings but that doesn't mean that you aren't getting where you need to go right as brother hamann said in order to depart from this situation you have to arrive at it so a lot of that discomfort is you arriving at whatever it is that needs to be worked out or that needs to be purged from your system and sometimes it is uncomfortable but that's actually a good sign right that means that you are finally getting to the root of whatever the issue might be whatever the concern might be in order for you to work your way towards health and towards healing and at the end of the day we're all here to serve and to better ourselves and each other so it's having trust with each other having that community having that patients in order to receive the help that we need to be better individuals better community members better family members and in turn a better and stronger inshallah. How was that folks useful yes i hope inshallah may Allah bless you all inshallah we wanted to make sure that there was time really for discussion back and forth with the folks that are here and also the folks online. We know that there's a number of you also online so we just wanted to make sure that we that you know that we know that you're with us inshallah we'll monitor your questions as well but also take questions from the audience here so with that inshallah what we'll do is really just open this up for discussion and for the questions you have and who and if you want to tell us who you'd like to answer the question that'd be great or if it's just open we'll figure out who the right person is inshallah. It works. Alright who's the first brave soul? Salamu Alaikum. Two questions like two of you mentioned that when I talked to my therapist so you are therapists so why you guys need therapists so one and second how does this therapy session work in term of insurance where the insurances are covered. Alright I'll take the first one and Jenna can take the second one if that's okay so to summarize the question for everybody it sounds like why do I go to therapy? Is that the question? So I'll clarify my doctoral student not yet a therapist but I start clinical work in June so inshallah in June I will I will be a psychologist in training. This work is inshallah very difficult very difficult I cannot express to you the calls that I get you know my somehow my phone number my personal phone number because of our insurance panels is somewhere in the community and so I'll get calls all the time and I've got calls from people crying I've got calls from people in their closet I've got calls from moms dads and even like just younger folks who are like trying to get to therapy and how do I talk to my parents and how do I get me to where you are you know and so one of the one of the the biggest um kind of responsibility that I take on myself in this position and in this field is that how do I make sure I'm in the best space for my for my community and that is just as holistic as we approach our work right so how do I make sure my dean is in the right space how do I make sure my physical health is in the right space but also my like my mental health and and I am I am of the mindset that it's very difficult to get your to kind of get your mental health in a right space on your own you need a community and part of your community is a therapist you know and part of that is me being able to go there go to my therapist and talk I'm also I have a family I'm married and marriage is not masha'Allah not always easy so as I as I'm a full-time student and as I'm I'm a wife but also I'm an employee and how how do I manage my life without the support of a therapist and and my team and my therapist is definitely a part of my team and I think it's one of the things I always tell people is in as part of our community I think it's really hard sometimes to have a space that's yours right so if you're like one of four children I'm one of five so I got nothing masha'Allah to myself nothing so I'm like when I started therapy you know at one point my husband's like can I ask your therapist a question I said no because he is my therapist you want your own therapist masha'Allah you go get your own therapist but he is my therapist so it's my space it's my space to go in there and and discuss my troubles because I'm only human and all those kind of tests all of us in different ways so even as you know I'll talk to about myself even as I sit up here sometimes it's easy to say well you're a PhD student or you're this you know and I and I promise you what we say is like most of our community struggling with something and so a way to to kind of support and facilitate our my journey through through my own life but also my journey through my community is is for definitely me to lean on on therapy and be able to know that I have that support in kind of my back pocket if I need it as a pass the mic I'm just gonna add one quick thing if it's important just helpful it's actually part of our professional ethics in the field that if you are giving care then you yourself must receive care so it's actually one of the standards of the field as well so we are taught in our programs that if you are going to be a support for someone else you yourself and some of our programs mandate that we actually sit in therapy ourselves to become therapists so it's actually part of the profession as well and it makes a lot of sense that honestly if I drop back to Islam it is exactly what we learn just like with teachers you are not allowed to teach unless you are connected to your teachers if you are cut off from that then you can go rogue right and that is the same thing in clinical work as well so add one more thing to this this is like maybe it's very important to know it's therapy is not about the knowledge it's about experience and even me as a therapist that know the knowledge but when it comes to my life I'm not a good person to see what's going on in me I need someone else as a facilitator to help me to go through this process even by knowing the knowledge also I'll just say everybody needs therapy and it's a lot of people will almost go to therapy as a last resort or after stuff has already hit the fan but prevention is really important as well right that's why there's not just divorce counseling there's pre-marital counseling there is counseling before you have children or you know therapy is a great way like he was saying to just know yourself better to just have a good understanding of yourself and your circumstance before you know God forbid issues do arise to answer a question about insurance and then now we are credentialed with a few insurance companies and have a few more on the way so we currently have contracts with Cigna Aetna United Behavioral Health Magellan and we have our Anthem contract on the way finances is never a factor for anyone ever getting turned away from our services so Hemana through community support and just the CAD funding and things like that we are also able to offer financial aid and sliding skill mental health should be as free and well not free because we don't need to get paid but as accessible as it can be inshallah we're just talking about social media I saw a post that said getting traumatized is free and accessible so therapy should be free and accessible so we really do our best just to provide that access for everyone and if you ever do have a certain insurance company that you're wondering about we do offer super bills and other things like that so we just always welcome you to reach out send us an email and see how we can work with you inshallah so yeah I just wanted to say here that I myself mental health clinician myself many years but I wanted to share that I would say like we but I'm not exactly part of the group but we opened the first Islamic rehab in America here in Castro Valley Tranquility rehab so very first ever in this country roughly two weeks ago but as of this coming week we're initially taking in the clients so your guys is seems like everything that I got from everybody on the panel is this is more catered towards the outpatient services yeah so yeah this is the rehab of course going to be an inpatient most of my I have outpatient experience but most of it is my experience in the inpatient rehab so maybe I can check manure and stuff to see if we can collaborate because we will take the patients in treat them and then at some point we need to transition into outpatient and Madison seems to be the ideal thing for the Muslims just to stay within a Muslim environment and treatment and then of course another brother mentioned asked about how is it that the person himself can it's a good saying of course you guys are associated with Stanford it's the one of the top psychiatrist the Ervin Yalom Dr. Ervin Yalom is long retired thing is 90s but he said the quote that only the wounded healer truly heals so in that case you know those of us that you know are in this field and one way or another we've had some sort of background that you know would need to be addressed in the mental health and so we have probably overcame we've gained knowledge into school educated now we're in a much better position to quote you know help those of us that need especially with the stigma and everything in the Islamic community so I just wanted to share that yes thank you so much and Mubarak to Tranquility House we're very much connected to Dr. Amir Rahimallah who's my colleague at Stanford masha'Allah and also somebody who's been advising us and part of actually our lab as one of our he's actually one of our supervisors in our lab consultants of our lab thank you for looking for the exact title the consultants in our lab masha'Allah related to addictions so the connection is already made and yes absolutely this is outpatient treatment until inshallah one day we're able to actually build that not a stand that dream in which we get to that point in the future consider anything inpatient you are doing something that's incredible related to addictions specifically and yes absolutely there will be a cross-collaboration I'm sure but it's already started through Dr. Amir Rahimallah masha'Allah Assalamu alaikum jazaqallah so much for you wonderful people to be out there for us and helping us out we didn't even know that this existed and we had these kind of issues you know and we are so grateful and so lucky to be in this community for people like you I just had one little question what age is the minimum age for children to start therapy because they're already developing and I don't know I mean you know just wanted to know that answer that's a really good question and it really depends I so I work in the school schools during the day and the youngest at the school district is five it looks different from what you might it might be a lot of skill building actually you know when you think about what we do with kids at therapy it's we can't control what's going on in their lives but we can build resiliency by helping them identify what they're going through what they're feeling and how to cope with it we teach coping skills and quite honestly I've seen people work with four-year-olds as well it looks different but that is something that can be done as young as four and five and there's play therapy which you're right they even start even younger there is PCIT which is play therapy which would they even they teach moms and kids to interact and they'll have like a earbud in the mom's ear and they'll teach them how to interact and play therapy is done quite young where it's an undirected play but through that they do help children process things we're not set up for such a young age just on the topic of therapy for children play therapy is one and art therapy is another one as well that's my line of study that i'm currently working towards right now inshallah and like sister notes had said with children oftentimes it's difficult to just sit there and talk at them for a certain period of time and even as adults we can struggle to just talk about our feelings sometimes and verbalizing things can be difficult so something like play therapy or art therapy which by the way can be done with anybody of any of all ages um engaging in some sort of art form or some sort of kind of bodily process can oftentimes really help first of all put a buffer sometimes if directly verbalizing something is triggering or difficult but especially with children if they're not even cognitively there yet giving them something more physical you know using bright colors or textures that are going to activate their senses in a way um it helps give them an expressive outlet while also like she was saying building coping mechanisms resiliency um then giving them something tangible to focus on to help channel their emotions and what they're feeling thank you um first of all thank you so much for everything that you're doing actually stayed back to kind of celebrate the initiative and and you know for the support but um as I hear you guys um a question popped into my mind and for giving me my knowledge is very limited in this space I'm kind of curious is there a difference between the tests that come from a law from an Islamic perspective and trauma right I was under the impression that therapy is needed when there's trauma but is is there a difference between a test and trauma and would you um what would you say would would someone need therapy if they're going through a test thank you so much for the question I really appreciate it and I you know I always say this to folks so if a question comes up it's probably on many people's minds and I appreciate that also because it adds even more nuance to the discussion we've had on the panel so far I want to remind us inshallah to answer your question you're right when people think about trauma they think okay one of the solutions might be therapy what about my everyday struggles my everyday you know we might call them kind of be small be the wear and tear of the everyday life right it's a wear and tear on the very fabric of your life right do I really need to get therapy for these things or if Allah tests me which he says he's already told us it's in the Quran it's part of our belief system as Muslims to know that Allah will test us right he's gonna say he told us we're going to literally test you trial you right with something of fear and difficulty and hunger and loss of wealth and so on so forth and people and so on in our life this concept do we really need to get help for this in therapy if this is something already told us this is going to happen and the answer is it depends here's why I say that it's really something where it depends on you your background your family support or the lack of it right your social supports or the lack of it who is part of your circle sometimes people when they're having the everyday kind of that wear and tear the everyday fabric they might have a kind of family that is supportive to them whereas someone else doesn't have that they might have maybe it's not family maybe it's the friends they have some really excellent group of people that help them through this right and they're willing to shoulder the support other people don't necessarily have this some other people might have the finances the resources to be able to help themselves other people don't subhanallah so it really depends on you what I say is and this comes to me what I what I understand this is directly from our own Dean Anasharia to me I look at the Quran first that's the place I go to the first and I hope it's the first place you go to and here this is where I see in the eye of the verse we might read it and know it when I quote it to you you say oh I know that verse but we may not necessarily connect it and apply it and what the verse is is basically where Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala tells us that if we don't know then we need to actually ask for support we need to ask those who don't what is the verse what's the verse do we know ask the people of knowledge if you do not know ask the people of knowledge if you don't know and the reason I bring that up in this context is exactly that if you have the supports if you have the help if you have you know you're able to kind of even yourself kind of pull it up yourself but if you don't and so many of us don't in the modern era we've never lived through a pandemic before right we don't know really cope with this the isolation and the break of things and all the all the shifting of the way our lives function even now as we exit the inshallah this pandemic lives have shifted so much everyone who is a parent in the room including myself these kids are not born with manuals like I don't have to operate them like there is something here that we need extra help and if you have again the people in your life who can support you through that you may not need the therapy but if you don't the quran is very clear about ask the people of knowledge if you don't know and in this case the people of knowledge are the people who have spent the last several years of their life years of their life studying this science and have you know after you get your masters which is already two years or your doctor which is five years or more you know that in addition to that to become licensed to sit on this panel and become licensed professionals in the field you know how many more years it takes after your masters or doctorate at least three more years sometimes more three thousand hours of supervised clinical care by a supervisor who supervises what they're doing before they could even sit for their licensing exam and become a licensed professional so we're talking anywhere from five to eight nine ten years to sit on this panel and be able to tell you this or sit with you as a therapist and able to help you this isn't a walk in the park folks this is a real career and a real profession that is governed by its own ethics and boards and takes a lot of work to be able to help the person in front of them why do i say all of this because to me when i see back to the quran when i see it say ask the people of knowledge the people of knowledge are those who studied whatever question it is that you have if it's about marriage go to the marriage family therapists and experts if it's about parenting and about children work with those who have worked specifically with children if it's about trauma and everyday life work with those who are trained in trauma so if it's about substance abuse it's a little suicide whatever it may be each of us actually have sub-specialties in the type of therapies that we do does that make sense inshallah that helps and kind of motivates encourages us to move forward thank you for the question uh just echoing what the other sisters were saying here's the echo for the work you're doing i think it's so important for the community so i feel really blessed that you're doing that for us for love first and foremost on that topic actually uh how does islamically focused therapy differ from other western therapies uh in more of like a practical sense of what that might look like during therapy they're all looking at me okay thank you for the question and one thing we didn't actually mention in some of the work that we do behind the scenes with this group here madistan mashallah um is actually something which you mentioned we work with very similar to the name of my lab because maristan is connected and really the community facing partner to the academic work we do in the lab why do i mention that the lab is called the muslim mental health and islamic psychology lab muslim mental health is really what all of us are doing and from our programs we all trained in you know doctorate programs or master's programs graduate level programs that work on mental health and license you in it and we were interested in working with muslims we ourselves were muslims this is the field generally called muslim mental health it's muslims working in counseling with muslims but they're using whatever essentially secular training that they have already received a connected field but different is called islamic psychology that's a different field the reason that's different is because islamic psychology starts in my if i'm going to share with you my definition of it it basically starts with the foundations of islam itself and then you build on it as psychology versus muslim mental health in which it's already a psychology already developed and you are filtering out what doesn't work for muslims and then in adapting it to muslims so these are two connected but different fields we recently wrote a book with a number of folks that have been much a love really active in the field of islamic psychology and it's actually about introducing islamic concepts into clinical care and you can get the book on amazon it's actually the tip model traditionally islamically integrated psychotherapy tip the reason that model is really great is because it does exactly that it's building the theory and foundation related to islam and then building a psychology upon it it's also the courses that i teach in islamic psychology whether at the cambridge muslim college we have a whole diploma on islamic psychology or the trainings that happen with our friends and partners at the khanio center called the tip training those that that um model is a little bit different essentially it's clinical counseling by professionals right same professionals clinical counseling but this is where you start getting the integration of islam into the story and so you might integrate the hadith or you may integrate verses of the quran or you might integrate actual exercises techniques and therapies within the therapy that you're doing and that requires its own training and a lot of the folks who built this model themselves were dual trained so they were trained in sharia plus counseling and those who are taking it and this is actually something we do in our didactics basically all of us meet once a week to do didactic teaching right and we actually actually teach the tip model to our therapists they're actually all undergoing this tip kind of training and learning um over the course of our behind the scenes work of madistan so that when anyone in the community comes and says i'm looking for islamic psychology or i'm just looking for counseling you don't have to have this down in there if you don't necessarily want that that would be more like muslim mental health but if you do want the islamic psychology then we're training our therapists in that model if that makes sense as well yeah um i'll also just quickly add something i'm taking this right from dr runia so um in in the field of substance use i think part of your question for me what came up was also understanding emotions from the islamic perspective and the expression of emotions from the islamic perspective so in the field of substance use one of the most common things that we'll hear from muslims who are struggling or muslims who have used is i feel guilty right we hear i feel guilty all the time and so one of the one of the important factors is when you're in when you're in a secular practice so guilt as understood kind of or as as it's understood in more like secular practices if a muslim were to go into a therapist's office who's not muslim and say i feel guilty what do we think that's like colleges therapists might say to them why everybody does it you tried it it's okay okay we'll get better oh you're struggling with an addiction there's treatment and they're not going to bypass the severity of what's happening i want to be very clear that you're still getting professional care with a non muslim therapist but the nuances you know that like what as muslims we carry knowing that okay maybe i've done something that really goes against the fold of islam or it really like it didn't sit right with me versus a muslim therapist might tell you the guilt reminds you that you're a god conscious conscious individual it reminds you that there is a law and it reminds you that you have done something that may have displeased a law but we come back from it and and so you reframe the way that you look at guilt in and of itself from this very like negative like chunky emotion and expression to something that's actually very like unique to muslims in the way we understand it as like you might come back come back from that and say oh because i could not feel guilty imagine that imagine i did all this stuff and i don't feel guilty that's that's very different so it's also just you know a lot of like reframing of the way we understand things from the islamic perspective and embedding those practices into into like one-on-one care and i know at the at the clinic and at another clinic i worked at as well we got a call from from a young sister who um she did not want she's like i want a muslim therapist but i want no islam in embedded into my healing i just want straight professional care and i said no problem and it was something very and so her and i were in discussion what's going on you know how do we get you the best care who who on our team and she said you know blah blah blah amadan's coming up blah blah and kind of just went through this and then she kind of stopped on the phone with me and she said i didn't have to explain ramadan i didn't when i said ramadan is coming up and you know this the family situation and everything you already understood that amadan was a very communal time but amadan was a time where family comes together and so for her navigating this extremely high communal time in the current circumstances that she was in it was enough for her that we understood what amadan meant and so it's also kind of just considering aspects like that like the way we look sometimes having care from somebody who looks like you is so important that visual representation that the connection you're like we are we're really in this together so inshallah that's of benefit to you and of course everybody else but inshallah that's a little example yeah i actually wanted to share a personal experience with that relates to that question um i have my own therapist as well it's a muslim therapist alhamdulillah but recently i thought you know maybe i wanted to try working with a non-muslim therapist with a non-muslim therapist really to get the gain the experience of you know how is it to be working with somebody who is not muslim because oftentimes in the community we do encourage community members to seek services or support from a muslim and it was interesting um i was talking to my therapist about um my challenges with like keep keeping consistent with prayer uh the five five times prayer and you know i was telling her i didn't grow up praying didn't grow up in a very practicing family so i you know as i became older and gain that consistency that's always a challenge for me and i was really surprised because i of course i've had this conversation with my muslim therapist too i was really surprised that her response was you know maybe deep down you really don't want to pray and maybe this is an internal conflict that you have and that you've been pressured to believe that prayer is important and like i that just like i literally just paused for a few seconds and i was like no i you know prayer is really important for me i want to work on being consistent and but again it was interesting that she was consistently her response was maybe that's because somebody told you that it was important and you don't really believe in it and and in that moment i thought wow you know this is why it's really important to be working with muslim therapists wanted to share that to that guilt point like i agree but i i also feel that you know if i go to a muslim therapist i may not be comfortable to express that guilt maybe i will be thinking how i will be judged as being a muslim because that person also know islam if i go to some non muslim i may be more comfortable well expressing those guilt and seeking so how what's your take on this like yeah i'll start but i actually think this is a great question even beyond guilt um so you know we we wrote a paper in the lab and we looked at literature from about 1979 to 2021 um on muslims in addiction and we looked at um really it was a global study um and actually this came up in some of the papers it was individuals indicated that um well if i go to a muslim they know what i did is wrong and i don't want i don't want to deal with that and so i'd rather go to the non muslim or i'd rather not go to treatment at all and this is something that we saw very common i actually um in one in one of the papers that we that we read there was a brother who who was struggling with an addiction and he was he was offered free rehab as part of this research study and he said i'm not gonna go because if i go he's like he's from a very small community he's like everybody's gonna know where i went and then when i come back all i'm gonna hear is you know you struggled with this addiction and he's like i'm he was scared he would never get married he was scared he would never get a job and he was scared the community was just gonna abandon him and so this is a very real concern i think from from my perspective and like i said i think it's a more general question because this comes up with you know dr rania does a lot of suicide research and it comes up with perhaps like suicidal ideation or kind of anything else one of the important things to to remember is again jenna touched on this is everybody is a professional in the field so even when when people come to us and you're you're kind of taught to check in with yourself again going back to the importance of why we also go through care ourselves so when you're talking to your muslim therapists they're also coming from this they're not coming from the lens of judgment that's not why they're there they're coming from the lens of support of treatment of healing and it's it's really this a lot of community talks this is actually one of the first talks where we didn't heavily talk on stigma but the role of stigma is really big in general and kind of like perpetuating these feelings that our community has and so i i want to assure everybody is what what you come with is we meet you where you are and if that's like you're not going to disclose on day one i promise you that hey i'm struggling with an addiction that it's probably i don't know that that happens as often unless it's like you've gotten into some legal thing and then now you have to get treatment it it's it builds up and so very slowly across kind of along the journey of your care you might slip things to your therapist and then they might hear it but you're not ready to talk about it so they don't bring it up and so kind of remembering that our job is not there to judge you that's not for us that's not why we're there um the the therapist's job is to really just sit down here you and support you and facilitate healing in a way that matters to you and so it's also um it's understandable that we as community members might have this notion of i'm going to be judged and that's why i said it was more general because we have people who won't even go to therapy because right off the bat they're like i'm going to be judged for feelings of depression or i feel a lot of anxiety and i'm going to be judged and so i'm going to end with it's not our responsibility to sit there and judge you that's not really what we're there for our our our real goal is to just make sure you're getting care in the field of substance use dr rania actually talks about how it's it's a stigma within a stigma and if you're if you're a male it's a stigma within a stigma within a stigmas panel it's so difficult um because there's just so much you oh have to overcome the barrier of it being a mental health struggle and then you overcome you know the barrier of it being like addiction something that is so that is something that is haram in in you know in our in our faith and in our practices but haram doesn't mean it doesn't happen and so you're overcoming that and if you're you're a man you're overcoming the societal notion that i i need to be strong and available for my family and stuff and so i'll i'll kind of pass on to dr rania do you want to address a little more of that cell and how to kind of support a little better thank you i'll just add really quick just to also clarify the point of the muslim and non-muslim therapists i want to be very very clear that professional care for somebody who needs help and care whoever they may be is better than no care at all hands down there's just no comparison between somebody leaving themselves to completely or their family or their lack of knowledge on the issue deteriorating but getting even if it's partial help and support with a non-muslim therapist then of course we would say it would be really helpful if somebody understood the culture and background here's what i want to say and part of the work we do actually at the lab is we've created it and this whole year actually we spend a lot of time creating what we call religious and spiritual clinical competencies in working with muslim patients so we've built out a whole clinical competencies training and probably on the order of about every week or every other week i'm at some university training their psychology staff their therapist staff our doctors on working with muslims why am i spending so much time doing and literally creating a it's a research type of training program where we're actually collecting pre-testing and post-testing and making sure it works and making sure it's actually helping and effective and the reason i'm doing that i'm so dedicated to that i think the last three weeks i've been at the university of minnesota and i was at the uc san diego and then harvard and then whoever i mean literally hopping across the country or by zoom and hamd enough for zoom inshallah the reason i spend so much time doing these trainings from non-muslim clinicians is i realize there are so many more people that need help than we have muslim clinicians available and it is better to train your non-muslim clinicians on at least some level of clinical competency working with muslims then leave them completely adrift without any knowledge of how to really work with muslims and you're going to get some really good people who are not muslim but they're good and sincere people and they're trying to understand and you're going to get some terrible people just this how it is just like any profession in any field and like you were made the thing you said earlier both of you of you have to keep on if you don't like the first therapist keep on trying another and you don't like that one try another one it takes a while to find the right person don't give up and it may be that they're not muslim and it makes sense for your if you're very well known and it's a small community or if it's something that it's a small group you might actually want to go outside of that group and that makes perfect sense and if you work with a therapist who's not muslim and who could use a little more extra help hamd enough we have the trainings we literally have one that's on the ap the american psychiatric association imagine they commission me to do a training that's three hours long where i'm literally talking on how do you work with muslims on mental health and they literally made it free which is very rare for the next couple of years for any clinician who wants to take that training it's on their website happy to give you the link we actually have a code for it on our table outside why because i'm so dedicated to just let the muslims get help it doesn't matter where and whose hands it is at some point we'll have enough people in the field that actually are muslim and trained many are coming through the pipeline and but until that happens let's also train our non-muslim clinicians too how to work with us i hope that helps inshallah we're dedicated we are committed here let me rest it inshallah my question is that like what do you all what do you all do to not be impacted by like the tragedy and the trauma that you guys hear constant on a constant basis and like as as average people um what can we what tips do you have for us that we we may be able to implement by just you know sometimes we're trying to help our friends out or a family member out and you know then we're carrying that for days with us so if there's anything that you can share um i can say two things about this i just passed to other colleagues to talk about this because this is very important i believe first things is um i was going to talk about the boundary but i've forgot but this is very important not only boundary between family members but also boundary at work so when i'm working from nine to five or nine to nine actually in therapy and then i'm going to my family i have my own life i have my weekends and i just want to spend my time it's very important to set that boundary that this is this is different this is my i'm going to their world when i'm like providing the service but my own experience is different from that and distinguish between these two things especially for me as a cobalt therapist i'm married too and i just like sometimes it's common this is like you're real humans to compare that experiences when what my client's going through but i learned that i should like when i'm done with my work i should just put everything there and just try to be like coming back to my own world and my inner world and my family and not comparing all those things or all traumas that's happening in my client's world to take it to my own um things and second as we talked about that address this about seeking support professional support personal support social support these are all things important for a therapist and that's why i believe like for therapists it's more more important to see for therapy because of um actually these struggles these like potential that they get affected by um clients traumas and i usually in my own therapy i talk about sometimes it happens that talk about the cases that i struggle with i'm getting impacted by my clients so like this is like a professional support sometimes by having like social friends or even like colleagues that just hanging out with my colleagues and talk about like these struggles it helps me to feel like that common humanity and that's like a common experience that helped me a lot to not get affected and to go through this so just again as like as a human like other clients that we encourage them to not isolate themselves and not going through that loneliness this is same for us as the clinicians to see for support anyway just to to that point quickly you asked how we don't get affected we do people in the mental health field aren't invincible you know we have feelings and we get affected just like everybody else does and that's really just that importance of checking on people in your life you know that saying check on your strong friends really is true um and that's something that we really try to embody in our work like one as my supervisor so i'd be like Jenna how are you and i'm like oh i did this and i she's like no no i didn't ask what you accomplished i asked how are you so it's important to just make that space for each other um if you know whether it's in the wake of a tragedy i know it's it's black history month and our communities kind of we're still reeling from a recent another recent death in the black community mental health protect us all um but really just taking that time to see one another for who we are and to make that space um again a colleague like we started our meeting she just asked me how i was doing about that rather than checking on my work tasks immediately so recognizing that one you're not alone everybody feels feelings i promise you even like the top therapist in the world has feelings and gets affected and needs their own help so we're never alone in our feelings of things um and to really just put each other's humanity before each other's work before each other's productivity or taxes really just to see our brothers and sisters as our fellow human beings and to prioritize their needs before we kind of bombard them with the things that we might need from them we could continue kind of passing down the mic and each person adding and close it up with this unless there's a specific question still out there okay we did start okay so you'd like to give people some more time do folks want to take a little more time with the questions yes shalba okay okay let's let's let's prioritize our questions in shalba so i'm like um i'll make mine really quick because i know we have a lot of people having questions uh jizakala for you guys for this conference has been super informative um the question i had is one of the first things that kind of drew me to psychology was you know seeing such a high divorce rate especially in the muslim community like when you see the statistics like 50 and above you know they get to thinking like where the problem is stemming from right and i think one thing that i've kind of learned um throughout my life is that a lot of these things are passed down um whether it's anger and that kind of thing where relationships gets passed down to the children so how can we as like an oma break the cycle of all those trauma and negativity being passed down from generation to generation i'll say something really quickly and then in shalba maybe hamid can go um so when i was still in canada i actually studied professional counseling and i was originally doing a marriage and family um certificate and then i had the same epiphany i got married really young and everybody that got married in the same year plus or minus you know year and a half that i did was divorced within three years and and so by the time i started studying i looked back and i said these are people i grew up with people i know like i know you and subhan Allah i always say after you get married people think you're like mashallah the genie like they come and they ask you questions and you're like man i just got here like i need a minute right to so as i was going through the program i actually contacted the admissions and i said can i swap my certificate to do family and youth support work because a lot of the times that i would talk to people who were married i realized that the problems weren't always maritaly specific they were kind of individually and then as i talked about earlier you it kind of comes into your marriage because you are a part of that relationship and so i switched and i did family and youth support work and my primary work is with a lot of i i i focus a lot of my research more on adolescents and a lot of my clinical work inshallah is the age group i want to work with because it's we need to sister knows i've touched on this earlier and it's the mentoring of certain behaviors from a parent to a child and so if we if you're a parent who has struggles regulating your emotions do you think your kids mashaAllah are going to grow up to be like a a plus emotion regulators it's panel they're going to learn it from you they're going to learn um if mom or dad had an angry outburst maybe that's an okay behavior and then they grow up with this notion that that's okay mom and dad used to do it and you know as a kid i mean alhamdulillah we're all born born from some some from someone and we all have parents it's understanding that your parents are like you know there's like there's a lot of our profit and then our parents like they are everything for you and so one of i think to kind of your point is the importance of everything that was set on the panel and the breakdown of the various types of services that you can access so if you're looking to get married jannah talked about premarital coaching it's a thing people come to therapy before they get married because it's like and i've seen this happen people call me two weeks before they're getting married they're like sister i want to start therapy i was like oh my god mashallah this is like a few months of a project it's not like an overnight thing but they'll come in and people will talk about i grew up like this and then you realize they're they're carrying so much and you know signing a piece of paper to get married doesn't mean we've left everything kind of in our peripheral like that's not the way it's going to work so they come to therapy a year before they want to get married and even if there's no partner i want to be very clear sometimes it's i want to ready myself for finding a partner it's not even that they have somebody in mind and then they're starting to work through these little things and then by the time they're ready to find that partner and inshallah allah grant everybody a righteous partner and a righteous spouse and by the time they're ready they're like i feel i feel light i feel good i've talked through a lot of things and therapy is not going to 100 prepare you for marriage every marriage is different unique and you know people are not the same but it's it's kind of taking a step back also and rocking i i think al madina institute send me sent an email a while back and dr ania and shikrami also actually says say this and it's that you know therapy is cheaper than divorce and it really is so you know get therapy don't get divorced and not that it's going to fix everything well alam we hope that we hope that through work like this we can support the reduction of a lot of these rates and just support families and more kind of like skill building which i think is really important but hamid do you want to i have a lot to say about this but i just want to make it short that uh yes the rate is real high and i believe like there are some like aspects to it first is that i believe is about expectations they're not realistic expect expectations about marriage especially among like young adults and like especially i believe social media that has a really negative impact on it they see couples on social media that see you everything looks great oh that's great that relationship is like this and but no it's not like that and there's so many challenges and there's some like ups and downs and uh we when we like entering to marriage we're accepting all the things on it right the all aspects of negatives and positives and um so expectations are important role in this second like not addressing the problems the small problems and it gets big over time and sometimes you see like a couple they're like they're close to separation they're saying why you're separating they said like because of specific like topic and you see like this is insane like what do you mean like but this is small things you are going to divorce and that's that's not a thing usually there's a years of like challenges that they they didn't address and now this is small things gets big this is small things triggers trigger them easily um so that that's very important to actually address the small things that is happening that's why i really encourage like young couples that seek for this support identify their patterns to see definitely even people in the first year of their marriage they're facing some challenges but they feel like okay it's not that big so let's get over it but if they address the pattern understand what's going on in their marriage that helps them to like um long term they're not getting triggered by those things or those small things so first thing to answer your question is knowledge to realistic knowledge about like this is what you're going to expect and learning about it and that helps them a lot hear me oh perfect i work i work as a high school teacher and i would have so many instances where students will come to me and tell me like all these very very heavy stuff and as we talk through it i would just bring the idea like hey have you maybe talked to a counselor we have one on site and everything and they're like no i rather just talk to you and they just like get so heartbreaking because like how do you help someone like have those coping skills when you're not even like have any like qualifications and i think majority of the time it just ends up me being sitting there and acknowledging and then i'm like maybe we should i'm like i try not to give any suggestions but majority of the time like but i do want to give them those coping skills but i also i don't want to interrupt that conversation where they're like okay turn to therapy session i'm okay now i'm like okay i'm sorry i'm sorry just tell me tell me so how do you help students navigate those emotions but also like not wanting to be the therapist which is i feel like it's hard michella that speaks to you as a teacher that you built those connections with your students that they're coming to you so thank you for that and i think um one of the things that we have to remember is that as a teacher you can't carry all of that for your students listening is building that connection and being an adult a safe adult to go to and be able to talk about it that's the first step so you've built those connections and what i would encourage you to do is um we do warm hand-offs at our school and that might be something that you do and it's just after you've built that connection and you've you've listened to them it's very powerful just being that listening ear right a lot of these kids don't have an adult to talk to and no one to listen to so no know that that's what you can do and and um sometimes we have to really be realistic on the expectations we have for ourselves a lot of times with these kids the stories are horrific one of the things about working in schools is it's not a clinic where people have the wherewithal to come they make an appointment and they come in schools you hear a lot and a lot of times those parents aren't going to let you work with them as a therapist but they're suffering and and so first of all thank you for being there and sometimes just being that that having that relationship with that student is very powerful most likely they don't have that relationship with anyone else and they are learning that while they are safe adults will at least listen to me sometimes they can't you can't change what's going on for them but you could be that listening ear and being that positive adult but i'd also encourage you to do as you listen to them and just say you know I I hear you I'm sorry for what you're going through I would like you to come with me to the council let's go talk and get some ideas and you might have to sometimes do a warm handoff go with them but it takes time and I think for yourself I would encourage you to take care of yourself like you have your you know someone for you to process whatever's going on with you can go to the counselor and let them know this is what's happened for this kid process for yourself because that's a lot that's a heavy load and realizing that we can't change everyone's life and I think it speaks to some what you were saying how do you take care of yourself of course we have our consultations groups built in and we we go to our own people support people but also being realistic and realizing we can't change everyone right that is with Allah but what I can do maybe in this instance all I can do is hear them hear them out right and seriously I make a lot of dawah for some of the students that I run into because in the end that that's who who brings us peace or solves our you know our problems or what have you and so looking out and you had this previous person who had asked a question asked can you give us some tips one of the really big advice that I would give you is look to the areas of what you can control sometimes we go get so caught up in the injustice of things and it's outside of our control so we just got to let that go this is not something I can control what I can control and what I can do is just be that listening here right and make the offer this person and then you just got to kind of let it go I think I'm just going to quickly add one thing sister no set as you said that I think one of the important things you can do for your friends or sometimes when family calls you um is sometimes people just call to vent and clarifying that an onset is really important so sometimes you might have a friend who calls you if you're like really psychologically in tune and like you've got so much emotional intelligence you're like do you have space for me be as I vent you know through the next five minutes and you might say like you know if you're in a position where you really can't carry that just be honest be like hey you know I'm really sorry um can we schedule a time to call in like an hour maybe you're in the middle of something um and and so also just recognizing when it is that I can actually support you and when it is that I'm just going to hear you out and say I'm sorry that sounds really tough you know I'm making I'm keeping you in my draws versus sometimes we get we spring into like action oriented and we're like I know a clinic and I know a therapist and we kind of want to give all these resources and it could just be that this person is their brain is not they're not even thinking about getting help they they're just like I just need to dispel this off my chest and so it's it's really a difficult position to be in and being that person who constantly receives it but even setting that internal expectation for yourself is I'm just going to hear them out I'm not you know I'm not a hundred percent responsible for what happens from here in terms of if they seek support maybe you've given them resources in the past and they just keep blowing up your phone but um kind of just being that being that person as well inshallah that's helpful for you in the system sorry I just the high school teacher I just wanted to say one of the other things you might ask them is what is what are your worries about going to the counselor right really just getting at the worries what are their concerns so that you could address so alhamdulillah let's make this the last question inshallah so we have a time to maybe go to the beautiful Maristan counseling room inshallah before Asir so I've been watching many of the online comments coming in alhamdulillah a lot of viewers many of them seem like they're not from the bay area there are viewers from around the country and they're kind of envious of this amazing alhamdulillah resource that we have so perhaps after our Asir we can put our forehead to the ground and do such this shukr for for happen this for ourselves and our families because you know I grew up in Missouri real Missouri and you know I probably needed therapy after going to a therapist because alhamdulillah very well-meaning therapists but weren't culturally competent so alhamdulillah so this question came online and I think it's important with the postmodern discussion that we've been having in the congregation recently the sister asked how can we support individuals who adopt secularism and do not have purpose in life so they're talking about Muslim families that are kind of in this wave of secularism I'd say to our online viewers thank you for being with us we actually there's actually a number of people online we're very much making sure that you know that we are that we know that you're with us alhamdulillah and thank you for this question as well there are so many resources I actually want to point you in the direction of for yourself actually not so much for the person because one of the things that we learned hopefully today we walk away with is that you can't change someone else it's the first rule of therapy that we teach you can't actually change someone else until they want to change that's really important you can inspire change you can be someone who alhamdulillah is so grounded in what you're doing that you literally inspire someone to change but you can't force someone else to change and I think that's really really really important that we all kind of get that and it also aligns with our Islamic understandings too and so the reason I say that is it's really so much a question for you more than the person you're actually asking about that if a person in your life that hear the question was related to secularism and if you told me any other ism I'd probably tell you the same thing which is that if it's something that's different to you you're not happy with you feel that actually this is something that maybe they're going down a route that may be very harmful and that very well may be true part of this is knowing what to do for yourself and how do you then interact with this person who otherwise is in your family your loved one a friend how do you interact with them so that I always say this is so important especially in family work you know this time and then family work with in-laws we didn't talk about in-laws today interestingly enough but I didn't come up anyhow we'll have another session on that one in shahmah but very very very importantly I always say make sure you keep the door open make sure you keep the door open why because it may be a stage it may be a phase in someone's life I see this because I'm on a college campus and I work with what we call transitional aged youth this is the prime time when literally all kinds of theories are being thrown at them in the university things that maybe they didn't grow up with or if they hadn't heard it before they're not fully grounded in their own concept of their own self that when these theories especially these professors I know I'm one like I get it you throw things at very impressionable people and they're like oh oh maybe that's better than what my parents taught me right and so when that happens this is the time where actually keep the door open because it may just be a phase it may be a passing phase to the next thing or it may be something they say I have found myself I'm going to be ex-phil and blank xyz and so you need the support actually to know how to keep the door open even though they're frustrating you or even though you're really worried about them don't ever underestimate the power of dua and prayer and look for the resources and here earlier today we have the aqeen institute right there the president of the aqeen Sheikh Omar Suleiman was here earlier today and they have done so much work and and research on the topic of secularism and they've also done work and research on the topic of what happens when people quit faith or they're not sure about faith or they're walking away from it they're getting separate from it or those who again very very common in my field the medical field the science field I told the story because it just happened in the last few months I've told it a few times about like being interviewed for a leadership position at stanford for something and having the interviewer looking at my cv really funny well-meaning person that was looking at my cv and then he looked at me and he said all of you is a paradox I said and he said he said you're bringing science with a religion I said yes he said well don't you see that as a problem speaking of secularism right don't you see that as a problem and so I said to him well it depends on your worldview I come with a worldview that does not have any issue with science and religion you don't need to be a secularist to be able to be on point with your scientific understandings and a person of faith he sat back in his chair in the interview took a moment and then he said I'm humbled I have a lot to learn and I said yes you do in my mind I said yes you do I said we all do we all have a lot to learn but that's really but that's really important because people sometimes it's a passing phase or they're kind of like I'm a person of science I can't possibly believe in this faith stuff when in reality I had a student just in my class just this week one of our sid students actually said I think I believe in religion just about as much as I believe in science I said okay she said actually I don't think either one has a lot of scientific grounding subhan Allah I said all right we'll work with that but the idea is that even in science things seem like they're a fact and they're not actually we learn in school things like the theory of evolution they don't ever say the word theory they just say evolution like it's real it's actually a theory but you're not taught as a theory this is what I mean so people go down this route of science or they go down this route where they're kind of like it has to be and therefore I have to take religion out of the story and then they may grow out of this phase or they may be someone who's really struggling with it trying to figure out how to integrate the worldview and they need some counseling and birth growth but more importantly it's you it's you knowing not how to shut the door in their face so that when they're out of the stage or even while they're during it they're able to still have access to you and I think that's really important because one day they may want access and if you've burned all the bridges how are they going to come back how are they going to come back and the last thing I'll say and it's probably a good ending point as parents and those of us who are mentors and teachers and coaches and counselors that work with people you all know I do a lot of youth work from Dela supervise all the young girls that are in this community through the rahmah programs and the teachers mashallah bless them all that have done such amazing work in mentoring your girls to me it is so amazing when parents come and say I think I've lost my kid and I say though they didn't let that they lost them outside I mean to say that they lost their Islam their iman they say no you didn't insha'Allah you didn't because you have attempted to give them Islam you have given them core values you have taught them and showed them something and maybe even they tasted the iman of it as long as it's in their core in arabic we had this whole lecture last night in the halak actually about core and hearts and qalb and the difference between qalb and fu'ad and and I won't go I won't go through all that today but one of the things that we say is lub the Arabic is beautiful all of these get translated in English it's just heart but each one in arabic has its own meaning and the lub is the inner inner inner part of the heart but the shaitan can't actually access and that lube if you've given your child if you've given the people you've mentored Islam in their core then insha'Allah they're going to find their way back to I really appreciate you being here I appreciate your support and your du'as more than anything as you know we have a mission that we're starting off with here to really build out insha'Allah the madistan and we're going to need a lot of support it's going to take a lot of money a lot of funding it's going to take a lot of creativity I'll make the same call I made in the morning we need our creative people we need the people yes our counselors and our therapists yes but we also need our finance people we need our business people we need our architects we need our civil engineers we need the people who are know how to do real know how to find good real estate we need the people who know how to eventually build this holistic model of healing today we've taken the first step alhamdulillah in a back to in person we've taken a few first steps before this one because we were doing virtual work but today alhamdulillah we mark the first day that an onsite in-person office is opened up in the bay area here at the MCC which has been an amazing partner to us alhamdulillah those of you would like we'll walk over together to take a look at it insha'Allah demystify therapy and don't what is this therapy room look like you'll see that it's actually alhamdulillah beautiful room and that will be a first step and we hope to keep on adding steps until we're able to fully actually build a full-on madistan we hope insha'Allah and I hope it's here before it's at you or else please make dua please say Aami may Allah bless all of you may Allah bless all those who are here and all your families all the time you've taken from your families to be here on the middle of a day Saturday and all of you online may Allah bless you insha'Allah as we expand if we do well here that we could expand to your communities even rural in Missouri may Allah bless you all alhamdulillah wa sallallahu maalallahi muhammad wa aalihi wa sahbihi wa sallam ajma'in we ask ya Rabbi al-alameen to please accept from us we ask you to accept us ya Rabbi al-alameen we ask ya Rabbi hidayah guidance for all and we ask ya Rabbi al-alameen shifa ya shafi oh healer ishwina ya Rabbi give shifa and healing to all that we love ourselves and our families and loved ones