 So, I have obviously the most common question which is what led you to Southeast Asian studies and Burmese at SARS? A couple of things. I initially signed up to do Arabic and Hebrew because I'm half Israeli and then took a gap here and during that gap year went to Southeast Asia and felt so drawn to the feeling, the culture, the people. So, I went to Bhutan, Vietnam, Thailand and then Myanmar and Myanmar just stuck more than any of the other places. So that was me, the beginning of a fascination with Southeast Asia. But then specifically my answer to why I started learning Burmese is the justification is in learning it in and of itself. It's such a beautiful language, it's fascinating, the writing, the hearing it, there's something so beautiful about, especially for me, hearing people from Mandalay speak Burmese. So that's my answer to that and I encourage everyone to learn it. That's amazing. I like how you speak so highly about the language and it's definitely a love relationship. I'm not a linguist but I love learning languages, it's kind of in my nature. My mother tongue is Dutch and then I learned English as a teenager and then French. So I do like languages but Burmese is so radically different from the ones I'd learned before. Speaking a little bit of Hebrew as well, it's just so different and beautiful and there's really no reason not to promote it. Yeah, I completely agree with you. And so your experience at SARS, you were there for three years? Correct. Yeah. And so how was that experience coming from taking a gap here and going abroad and then coming back to London where it's very cosmopolitan but at the same time you're in a city, you're in a stable environment? Yeah, that's an interesting question. So that trip around Southeast Asia was, yeah, it was mind-blowing, it really was. It was almost life-changing and then that was the beginning of the gap here so I had time to settle down in France and learn French. So it was kind of France going to Paris was a transition before I went to SOA so it wasn't too much of a shock and the way I saw it is, okay, so I've seen Southeast Asia now and when I started at SOA the beginning of the classes were all history of the different countries in the region and it felt like I could just remember where I had been and I could associate with things. So it was quite a special experience because A, the classes were so small and B, I had that association so it wasn't that weird or difficult and then in terms of living in London, I mean London is huge and you're right, you have to find your place but it was really easy, like I lived in Dinwiddy and I don't know, there was something about SOA people that I can't quite explain but it was instant and I met some incredible people there, people that I will have with me for the rest of my life, my best friends. So it was very easy to assimilate even though they all did different degrees and studied different things. It's kind of like SOA is like the SOA's tribe. I always find that whenever I set foot in SOA, so if I'm ever going to the SU bar or even Dinwiddy, I always just get along with the people. There's this kind of mutual relationship where everyone is just respecting one another and there's some kind of coherence which brings us all into this tribe. That's how I explain it really. Yeah and it doesn't matter how radically, like what the different things are that people are doing or how different their life stories are or where they're from, there is definitely a mutual there's a commonality. I mean yesterday I met a some very like a top representative from the IMF here and after kind of an hour of chatting, he mentioned that he also went to SOA's and that he was the ambassador of SOA's in Mongolia and it was just so cool to meet in Myanmar and it just immediately just we were so connected instantly because of the SOA's connection. Talking about the SU bar when he was there, when I was there, yeah that's great. Oh that's nice. Did anything change? Was there anything which you spoke about and he was like oh well you know we never had that or um yeah something like... Not really actually that was the great thing to hear. Everything he said was what I would have said. He was like oh yeah the SU bar and oh the vibe in general going to the park and I think I don't know if you mentioned Hare Krishna but you know like it was basically the same. Yeah yeah yeah oh that's nice and um and I'm very interested in this question that I'm going to ask because learning language is very easy for some people very difficult for other people and in terms of the specific course at SOA's and learning Burmese was it something which um your development in in that in that language was it was it easier initially or were there some struggles what was it like? Very good question. The the reason I think it ultimately worked out was because I had one linguistic professor who knows 13 languages and is very good at seeing the technical side of things and then I also had a native speaker teaching me and so having those two combined and then on top of that having the SOAS Myanmar Society which I was chairing at the time and we had quite a big group of people we had about 55 people something like that just quite big um with a lot of Burmese people that combination was very powerful. Having said that though Burmese is a language where you have to be in the country so after three years even though I've been studying for Burmese for like lessons for three hours a week because it's only part of the degree when I arrived here I couldn't really speak I could say like and that was it but it gave me a foundation and I can sense now that the way that I'm learning is so much easier than people who come here and and study from scratch uh as in SOAS gives you that solid foundation and that's what I think is so so good about the course and then of course John O'Kell's uh legacies and in the way they teach Burmese by ear and I was very fortunate to be taught by John as well because Justin was on leave and that was uh also an amazing experience. And was there was there anything which um you know was your was there anything which you found uh was your strength so for example for me I I do find that my writing I I really enjoy writing it and I really enjoy um the spelling and the whole structure so I think for me my strength is probably the writing aspect and my listening is is a bit is a bit shaky was that for you when you were um studying or um or was it something different uh listening was my strength I think my writing was terrible um my understanding of grammar was terrible but um my I think my core strength can you still hear me yes yes my core strength was being able to read even though I didn't understand anything so I could read as if I knew what I was saying my confidence right yeah yeah yeah exactly so so I would just read it and then Justin be like wow my great so what is it saying and then just silence yeah yeah yeah well if you can read it then that's okay that you know that's that's half of it already right yeah exactly um okay so so you um so you did your you did your degree at SARS three years and then it was um 2019 when you graduated is that right correct and then you you're now in Myanmar what is what is living in Myanmar like and what about this pandemic you know what is what's going on uh yeah so what is living in Myanmar like it's um it's nothing that I could have expected uh every day is a beautiful bundle of chaos there are power cuts and this and that um but it's also a bustling I live in Yangon it's a hustling bustling city even during COVID I'll speak about COVID in a minute um but the thing that's so beautiful about living in Yangon is that the people are especially to foreigners incredibly kind and helpful and generous um there's a reason that Myanmar is is one of the most generous countries in terms of giving donations to each other and you really feel that so whenever I've had a problem whenever I've been for example on my bike and suddenly the the I have a puncture someone immediate like five people immediately come and help or um when I don't have enough change for something people will chip in or when I've forgotten my wallet in a taxi they'll come and bring it back these kind of things are amazing so um living in Yangon during the pandemic has been a massive blessing because the sense of community is very strong even though we can't see each other and things regulations have been quite strict and everyone is super connected on Facebook because Facebook is like the Google of Myanmar everyone's on Facebook um and so yeah it's it's been great because there has been that sense of solidarity and among Myanmar people as well as foreigners and there were the elections as well so before the elections things were very closed and you know there was there were curfews and you could be arrested if you weren't wearing a mask and stuff like that now that the elections have happened things are looking to open slowly um still we're not able to take international flights or domestic flights but hopefully domestic flights will continue in about two weeks or one week or two weeks time yeah and um yeah but international flights haven't been going since about March so that's been crazy you know not being able to go home yeah yeah and um but there is a hope right there is you can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel yes okay okay well that I guess that's that's um quite important um and then what about the transition from moving to from London to Myanmar um and then fight and then trying to find work there right was it was it something which was quite scary at first and how do you reflect on that the transition was definitely scary um six months before I went I started applying to lots of jobs I think about 80 jobs in total via email I would send my CV and I would say who I am because I even though everyone told me oh you'll find something when you're there I was still quite nervous um and what ended up happening was I got rejected by about 90 percent of the people I applied with most of people not replying but then I was extremely fortunate I actually sent a message to an email to the company or not company an organization that I could only dream of working for and really just didn't expect it I had applied to the UN and got rejected so I was like you know what this dream one I will never get but then the the boss said I mean I said in my you know in my email I said I'm about to graduate with a degree in Burmese and Southeast Asian studies and the moment she heard that I could speak Burmese she was interested even though I didn't have much on my CV and so she was like okay well I'm actually in London right now let's have a coffee and it ended and it turned out that she wanted to give it give me a shot so when I arrived here I immediately became intern and then after being intern for a couple of weeks was promoted to being a consultant and then after a couple of weeks being consultants was promoted to being a permanent associate so it was really like incredible I was able to have that opportunity only because I spoke Burmese and I wasn't to be fair I wasn't really using it everything is in English it's an NGO that promotes responsible business conduct but the importance from the organization's point of view and for everyone I meet it's vital it shows a sign of respect it shows a sign of I am equal to you and it allowed me to forge complex relationships much faster yeah I think this idea of respect is such an important thing right because where wherever you're going I think language is a beautiful technology which we have been gifted and by learning another language you are you know mutually just respecting the other person you know acknowledging someone else's language and showing that you're willing to make yourself vulnerable in order to share a common language which isn't necessarily English which is usually the standard mode correct I like how you say it I fully agree with you yeah and okay so so so this organization that you're talking about right now you worked with them to produce the the first LGBT equality in the workplace handbook right correct and what was this what was this project you know about what was your experience with this and also how was this handbook received by businesses in Myanmar oh I love this question and I'm gonna get I'm getting excited now so basically the month that I arrived we had a workshop that brought together big multinationals and SMEs to learn more about LGBT plus in the workplace at this time I had just arrived and the moment the workshop ended the first thing I said was why don't we phrase the term LGBT plus and second of all why don't we create a handbook because there hasn't been one so my boss immediately agreed and we forged a partnership with the biggest LGBT plus organization in Myanmar and we wanted to create something that would be a direct kind of manual like here you go it's very short it's very simple it's got lots of cartoons it's almost trying to make it a pleasurable experience to read and the reason the that creating the handbook was lied so closely to my heart is because a I'm queer so it's it's very it's something I'm very passionate about but b Myanmar still does have a long way to go at the time of creating that handbook there had been a suicide of students at a university here who had apparently been bullied for being gay so that created some kind of momentum which we wanted we really wanted to vocalize on so yeah so the handbook how has it been received well I think I'd like to start by saying we had a day where we for the international day against homophobia transphobia and biphobia we had a day in May where despite COVID we encouraged a lot of companies to raise the LGBT flag and that was before just before the release of the handbook and through a lot of hard work we ended up having a 50 increase from the year before that so we had in total we had 36 companies raising the flag and just people being more aware of it right which is I think so important it's it's raising the awareness so the handbook so far it's received about 500 downloads it's had about 500 downloads so it could be better unfortunately it's not something that people are just going to pick up so it's up to us to disseminate and to make sure people hear about it but the cause is being pushed forward because thanks to organizations such as Colors Rainbow whom we did the handbook with who have their own tv channel and it's like news channel or facebook basically where they make entertaining videos to educate people so we do also provide trainings and things but I mean I don't sound entirely positive because I guess what I really want is for the typical Myanmar CEO to read it I don't want the multinationals per se I mean it's great if they do read it but they're already on board the real target has to be those people and the best way to do that to be honest with you is to pick up the phone and the best way to do that is if they know who I am and that's why and I'm sure we'll talk about it later that's why it's so incredibly useful that I have become a kind of public figure here because people actually give me the time of day so the great thing is I can now promote the causes I'm most passionate about through different ways yeah yeah this is I mean this is great because this is what I was very keen on I'm asking you was you you appear on many Myanmar channels if you type in your name in YouTube or Facebook or whatever it is you're going to find so much content about so many different channels and you get ones from the BBC to something which is a bit smaller something maybe a bit more local but from when I was watching them it seems like the unifying factor in in all of these channels was the willingness to to discuss women empowerment and women inequality essentially and it's something which I felt was there was a persistence of people wanting to discuss this and a growing insistence on on learning so do you think that this is something which is going to carry on indefinitely in Burma or do you think that it's it's something which which still needs a bit more momentum yeah well observed I don't think everyone would have seen that I think you're probably thinking referring specifically to one of the BBC videos where there's a book behind me that says girl power that video was before we started shooting had a very interesting conversation with the main editor who said listen Maya we want to shift the views of the younger generation and we need people like you to help us do it so we need to have strong young woman in the public eye and we do it by you know making it fun and entertaining but at the same time trying to inspire them so that's when I jumped on board and the fact I mean the mere fact that he was saying that means that something's changing I mean you could argue that oh it's the BBC and therefore you know it's a it's such a it's a it's a big it's machine it's a big machine right it's machinery so not the local channels might not be following suit but I definitely think that trends occur and BBC is starting that trend and the fact that I was able to talk about LGBT rights in that video without getting any negative feedback I mean I did do it very diplomatically right I mean I didn't say hi guys I'm queer and you better be happy with LGBT plus people no but still it was going around Bush and people were very positive about it the video received about three million views something like that and it was it was well received so that was also what inspired me and what continues to inspire me to interview people and to talk about subjects that people could start perceiving differently for example tonight I'm interviewing a couple a famous actor who recently got married to talk about married life and what does Myanmar marriage mean what is the essence of it so these conversations are to be had and and I think people are willing and interested there are also by the way regardless of me there are some fantastic networks for example Myanmar women's network and these organizations are doing fantastic things recently there was Ted X Yangon woman they brought some incredible Myanmar women to the screen and also international woman the former Australian Prime Minister she gave an amazing speech so yeah there is momentum happening and it's great but work still needs to be done yeah and and this idea that you you're trying to curb the stereotypes especially starting from the younger generation do you think that your your music and your and your singing has kind of helped you do that to be honest with you at the end of the day I'm still a foreign girl who's singing Burmese and that right now is what they love right I think what the difference will be in the long term is that they will realize that I'm not there to just be the white monkey I'm really not I'm here to make change and to keep it and I think you know there have been some foreigners who have been here and and done a similar thing and become famous and each has each have their own ambitions and goals but for me it really is I mean at the moment the the traction is coming from the fact that I sing and sing in Burmese and people love it because I'm singing the traditional songs and they're like wow oh my god but in the long term hopefully they'll realize that it's much more than that you know I want to bring what you also I think want I want to bring real stories of the screen I want to talk to a farmer and talk about his life and and bring history and and and share his perspective of and how difficult it is and for people to listen because someone is interviewing them who's genuine and that's my real goal is to come across as someone who is genuine and and that we're just human you and I we're all the same and that I'm accessible I'm real just because I might be this or that just because I love Burmese well you could go and learn English and that's something I'm also very passionate about you could go and learn English and the world could be your oyster because a big barrier here is is lack of um English and lack of critical thinking so yeah I love this idea that you're you know you're saying that there's at the at the end of the day you know they love me and my people they love to listen to a foreigner speak speak Burmese and sing in their their own language but I like how you're also you know asserting yourself and saying you know yeah you can have this part of me but with this part of me comes these other things and I'm and I I'm gonna put them on the table if you want to take one thing you have to take everything because this is you know this is me and I think that is um just very amazing thank you so much I think it would have so us would not have been drilled into me if I hadn't asserted myself that's so us yeah yeah so so you um you speak a lot um on on news channels um in Burmese you sing in Burmese you are living in Yangon at the moment and speaking Burmese so how do you find the confidence to you know to get up every day and speak and continually learn something which isn't isn't something which everyone does the big difference in being a public figure here versus anywhere else I reckon is that no matter how many mistakes I make people are super kind most people most people are super kind and the comments that I read every day are just so sweet like oh tipokana you know I love you more and um you know you they say like dear Maya you might be a little bit off here and there but overall thank you so much for the effort really appreciate it um I hope you're well may you be healthy so if you're constantly getting that feedback right I feel so motivated and happy to be of service so really it's just um listening to what people uh you know enjoy and what's making them happy especially during COVID it's been a really difficult time knowing that if I make a video that it will make them happy of course I'm going to do it um and then the second thing is I am I guess I'm naturally quite an extrovert I love meeting people I love connecting to people I kind of thrive off that and facilitating and you know bringing people together so it's not um it's not hard for me before COVID I was doing a lot of live venues sometimes with you know 400 people and that was lovely I really enjoyed it so yeah but then again if this was somewhere else I probably wouldn't have dead and you think um I mean the vocabulary which is which is going going around it's it's not you know something every uh everyone would know about certain intricate vocabulary which is us maybe more specific for the workplace environment or if you're going to be talking about women empowerment or um equality um that's I mean the vocabulary is something which is quite specific for that um and it's not it's not the same as hello how are you I would like to order this I would like to go go to this place give me this much money it's it's something more intricate so how do you um learn learn these new words and these new structures I wish I could tell you that I study every day for an hour but I really don't um what what the way that that I'm motivated and that I do it is um first of all through pressure if someone says hey Maya we're going to shoot you tomorrow about woman empowerment I'm like okay I better get those words ready um and then the second way is um through heart to heart conversations so my favorite thing to do is just to sit down with someone who might be interested in who might be a feminist right a guy who's a feminist and just sit with them and and ask him these questions and get familiar with the sound and the you know what how I could pronounce it and then maybe repeat it but without making it feel like it's a lesson um just over a couple of beers or something so that that's really um powerful but then yeah I think I could do better uh I probably like you know I probably could do with studying a couple of hours every day but I'm just not that I'm quite a non-linear person so for me it's just I follow religiously videos of women talking to each other about it being in the workplace and then obviously my organization it's um it brings in a lot of those kind of terminologies like for example like anti-corruption it's a really long word but for me it's it's like saying I'll go to I'll go downstairs because I hear it so many times so I agree like I'm like oh yeah of course so yeah it's a combination so you're exposing yourself right you're exposing yourself to these um these channels yeah exactly um so I recently watched a BBC interview with you and the Burmese MMA fighter Ang La En Sang um yes and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you I mean because it was it was mostly in Burmese but it was kind of about uh MMA fighting um but how but the potential of the sport in um empowering women and it's a sport which you also do um so I wanted to know um you know what that experience was like oh my god it was amazing yeah amazing you are being Ang La I approached the BBC with that idea in mind because Ang La has never been interviewed about around that topic and I think he was taken a little bit to surprise which was great because we were able to really dig into the question and it felt like a genuine conversation I loved it because uh I mean it was funny because he said so the answer he gave like when I asked him what he would do if his daughter went into MMA fighting the first thing he said was I prefer her to be a doctor or an engineer but if she does decide I'll support her um so yeah it was just great to start that conversation with him and get other people on board to think about it even though I think people were way too distracted and just were focusing on his fight which was coming up two days later um yeah but it was I guess it was so nice um especially because you know when I clicked on the video I was like okay there's an MMA fighter um okay they're probably going to be talking about just MMA or um maybe something about Myanmar but I I really like how you just kind of you just tackled it head on and you were just you're not afraid to um discuss something which you know previously hasn't necessarily been uh spoken about it was quite fun yeah because I mean we also talked about beekeeping because he before he started fighting he was beekeeping right and uh and he said that he was very passionate about it and he probably would be doing it right now if he hadn't been a success in the MMA world so yeah I think it really is about breaking people like breaking things down and talking about the core stuff yeah um so I have a bit of a disjointed question that it's it's not necessarily something which is we've discussed throughout this time but so so I understand that your your part Dutch and part Israeli and you have been working to try establish ties between Israel and Myanmar at the moment what is that's right what is it in particular if you can say what you what you what you're doing and um and how and how that is yeah sure um I first of all let me say that uh I I don't really have a connection with uh like living in Israel but I do have an Israeli passport and a Dutch passport and the real connection for me is um with my family I have a very interesting family where my my Jewish well the whole family's Jewish but my grandma is Moroccan my granddad is Syrian um so and then my dad has a very interesting life story as well uh he was in the Navy Seal and then he became a pilot and so anyway it's very close to my heart but in a kind of emotional way and that's I think why I'm so passionate about bringing the two countries together but the thing that I like is that making connections can be done in many ways and I think when people hear Israel they go but something that we did recently which I think supports my thesis is we brought to this we did an international webinar with the biggest disability rights organization in Israel the leading right organization and then brought here brought to the screen some really inspiring speakers on the topic of accessibility and inclusion and we did this in collaboration with the Embassy of Israel with the Myanmar Israel Chamber of Commerce and then this organization and then we invited some very important companies Myanmar companies who may not have ever heard anything about this topic before and the great thing was that they showed up we had 85 participants with some really inspiring talks we had a a singer with someone doing sign language interpretation in Burmese of the Israeli singer and we had you know simultaneous interpretation we had simultaneous captioning and just bringing together these two worlds with a country Israel that is that has so much experience in in terms of accessibility and inclusion and Myanmar people being so inspired and the CEOs saying you know what I'm going to try harder that is amazing and so I'm excited I'm excited for the future and especially to forge connections in in terms of agriculture, tech and health and so yeah and so diversity and inclusion comes into all of that but I think Myanmar can really benefit from those areas and yeah so oh that's amazing and I mean that's yeah I think that's that's such a cool idea as well do you think that's going to be something which is which which will carry on you know next year or it's going to build upon 100 yeah we're doing another one in two weeks time oh wow and then I mean this is just the beginning for us I have a very great connection with the Israel ambassador who shares my vision so we are constantly thinking of new things to do so it definitely sounds like the the future is bright for yourself in Myanmar Mazal tov yeah exactly