 Good morning everyone. Welcome to the final day of the 2018 Gathering of Eagles. Today we will hear from Dr. Guy Bluford and Lieutenant Colonel Kelly Latimer, two of two Air and Space pioneers. Dr. Ann Tipton will now introduce Dr. Bluford. Good morning. I'm Dr. Ann Tipton and I've had the pleasure over this academic year to get to know and work with Dr. Bluford. While he is most well known as the first African-American astronaut in space, you will see in this video that that is just one of his exceptional accomplishments over his 29-year Air Force career. Retired Air Force Colonel and astronaut Dr. Guy Bluford Jr. earned his undergraduate degree in aerospace engineering from Penn State University in 1964. After graduating from Penn State Dr. Bluford was commissioned in the Air Force and earned his pilot wings. His first appointment was to Cameron Bay Vietnam where he flew 144 combat missions as an F-4 Phantom fighter pilot. After his tour in Vietnam he served as a T-37 instructor pilot at Shepherd Air Force Base in Texas. In 1974 he earned a master of science degree from the Air Force Institute of Technology at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. He then completed his doctorate of philosophy degree in aerospace engineering with a minor in laser physics from AFIT before being selected to the astronaut program in 1978. In 1983 Dr. Bluford became the first African-American to fly in space on the Space Shuttle Challenger STS-8 mission which was the first night launch and night landing of the aircraft. In 1985 on STS-61 Alpha Dr. Bluford led an international team in operations of the German D-1 Space Lab. Then in 1991 Dr. Bluford flew on STS-39, a Department of Defense Strategic Defense Initiative mission. Then in 1992 he flew his final space mission on the STS-53. In 1993 Dr. Bluford retired from the Air Force leaving NASA to work for private industry on space-related projects until he retired at the age of 60. His distinguished career is marked by honors which include the NASA Gold Astronaut Pin, Air Force Command Pilot Astronaut Wings, Luftwaffe Wings, Department of Defense Superior Service Medal, NASA's Distinguished Service Award and four space flight medals and 14 honorary doctorate degrees. Dr. Bluford was inducted into the International Space Hall of Fame in 1997 and then in 2010 he was inducted in the United States Astronaut Hall of Fame with over 5,200 hours in jet aircraft and 688 hours in space on four missions. Can you please help me welcome Dr. Bluford to the gathering of Eagle Stage. Here we go. I'm pretty sure all of you saw that picture of me. I didn't recognize who that guy is I'm still looking for him. If you see if you see a guy like that you know let me know because you know there is an impersonator out there I'm not sure if it's him or me you know whatever so it's good to be here. It's been a long time since I've dealt with Air Force people. It's been a long time since I've dealt with Air Force people. I was invited to come back here last year I could not do that I really didn't want to do that you guys wanted me to come in on a Monday and leave on a Friday I could not do that and so they asked me to come back this year I said I'd be coming back but I can't stay any longer than two nights and the reason why is because I'm married to a lady for 54 years and she's blind and I need to get home. I'm thankful to be an Air Force guy. I don't think that I can say it any other way. You see these pictures of me flying in space and all that sort of stuff but all that all that occurred because I came through the Air Force so what I was going to do today is to sort of talk about my career I'll talk about flying in space because I'm pretty sure all of you want to know what flying in space was like but I want to talk about my Air Force career and how I got there. People always come up to me and say how'd you do that you know and I'm curious that myself how did you do that and so I want to sort of give you a feel for where I came from who I am that sort of thing and to give you a feel for that because I know all of you are going to be generals and and you need all the advice you can get whatever. A little history I'm I was born in 1942 it's hard for me to believe that but it's I was born in 1942 during World War II. I'm a Philadelphia great deal of pride in Philadelphia I grew up in the inner city of Philadelphia great played in the streets and playgrounds and all that sort of stuff grew up in row houses and all of that sort of stuff so I'm a big-time city guy I was very fortunate I had great parents great parents I had a father who was a mechanical engineer who grew up in Kansas I got a bachelor's master's degree and was a mechanical engineer he worked in Philadelphia I had a mother who was a school teacher she grew up in the south and I was taught in the public school system and then I also had a grandfather that lived with us who was a minister who was a retired minister so I grew up in a very stable family environment I grew up in an environment where I'm a third generation college graduate very I'm pretty sure that you stop and think about that that's pretty exceptional third generation college graduate my grandparents on both sides are college graduates and so my parents are college graduates so I grew up in a world where hey you know hey you're going to college well I want to work on my basketball shot yeah no you don't have time for that okay yeah I grew up in a community where we played basketball I always tell people I would have been as good as Alan Iverson but I had too much homework to do you know my parents and says well after you complete you know a crap it on you know I missed out on that opportunity of playing for the 76ers so I grew up in that environment I'm the oldest of three children I got two younger brothers that sort of thing from a military point of view interesting enough not much in the military my grandfather was a chaplain in World War one so you can imagine that in World War one he was a chaplain he was you know the the military was segregated so he worked with the colored troops in France I still remember growing up if you went into his room he had a organ a little organ where he could step on the pedal and play that was the organ he used in World War one I also had a great grandfather who was in the military my great grandfather was a slave my great grandfather was a slave he was in Virginia the Civil War started he was freed during the Civil War he joined the Union Army he was a private in the Union Army artillery and the reason why I remember that is because I have a copy of his honorable discharge honorable discharge that's a rare thing but I grew up in the 40s and 50s we were coming out of World War two the two top technologies that were going on at the time were jets and atomic energy we build a whole lot of atomic energy plants all that sort of stuff we had come out of World War two and we're starting to build jet airplanes and I was excited about jet airplanes so as a kid I knew all the the airplanes that the Navy and Air Force had so I was familiar with the P-51 Mustang and the Thunderbolt and the lightning of World War two the B-24, B-25, 26 I walked out here looking at some of these machines because I grew up looking at them so I was excited about that and I saw that transition from that to F-86s and F-84s and jets and I was excited about it that was cool if you stop if you ask me if you went if you went by my room as a kid I'd have the model of every one of them you know I knew what a cougar looked like what a panther looked like and I remember the Corsair and all that sort of stuff so I was in the airplanes and I loved airplanes but I wasn't in space this was space okay this was space I would get up on Saturday morning as a kid and get a dime that's all I needed a dime I would go down to the movie theater and watch a double feature you know hop along Cassidy and Roy Rogers or a lone ranger or whatever and in between the features they had this thing called Flash Gordon and Ming and so it would be episode 10 of Flash Gordon and Ming Flash would be a one-jam you know and and and he would work his way out of it and 15 minutes later he was in another jam and and you had to come back next week to find out how he was going to survive that so that was my impression of astronauts you know you go puff puff puff in this little vehicle you see that little vehicle up there in the right hand side you know it's about as much spacecraft that I knew you know flyers there weren't any effort there weren't any pilots black pilots out there in my life I heard about these guys Tuskegee Airmen they wanted to fly for the Air Force during World War two they fought and were able to fly during World War two when the war came to an end these guys disappeared so basically in my world black pilots didn't exist I mean you didn't see them at all in the 1940s and 1950s you really didn't see a lot of black professionals out there doctors lawyers dentists that sort of thing so I grew up in a world where the professional school teachers that sort of thing were not black they were white and I was very comfortable with that but just to just to lay the groundwork on them because my father was an engineer I was fascinated with being engineering I never realized how rare that was to have a father who was a mechanical engineer you know I just thought why not you know and I think the thing he impressed me on was the fact that he enjoyed what he did enjoyed what he did and I made a pretty interesting decision as a kid and I tell people it's all the time I made a pretty interesting decision I said when I become an adult I'm gonna make people pay me to have a good time I've done that very well I've done that very well these are airplanes that I was familiar with you know as I said I grew up all these airplanes and if you want in my room I could have told you all the specifications on all the airplanes I was interested in engines jet engines and rocket engines and if you stopped and talked to me I would have given you a little discussion on how a jet engine worked a scramjet rocket engine a ramjet all that sort of stuff so I was excited by all my heroes you know people heroes or basketball guys or sports figures or singers my heroes were engineers and these are the guys that were my heroes guy up in the upper right hand corner with Kelly Johnson he ran skunkworks for Lockheed Martin I still remember the T bird the F104 the SR 71 the F117 fabulous machines yep the guy in the upper left hand corner is Scott Crossfield test pilot X15 driver he was an engineer he was a guy that I greatly admire lower left hand corner is Jack Northrop guy who started Northrop aviation he was my hero he developed a flying wing which morphed eventually into the B2 bomber and the guy in the far right is Dick Wickham which is NASA aerodynamicist he came up with the area rule which was really phenomenal because when they developed the F102 they couldn't go faster than the speed of sound this guy and asked him to incorporate the area rule and was able to do that supercritical airfoil winglets all that sort of stuff super guy these are the guys that I wanted to work for as a kid so by the time I got in the high school by the time I got in the high school I pretty much knew what I wanted to do I like math and science you know I like airplanes I was determined to make people pay me to have a good time and I was going to go in the aviation and so my thinking was that I'd go to some college someplace I get my degree in aerospace engineering I would go out to Boeing or Rockwell or Lockheed Martin and so forth and so on and do that so that was my goal when I went into high school it was 1957 we had Sputnik Sputnik so America was really shaken the Russians put up Sputnik and 58 they decided to do something about it so they established NASA hey we need to you know work on this thing with NASA and 59 they selected their first seven astronauts all that sort of stuff so I saw all of that and I'm pretty sure I was interested in it like everybody else we were all excited about the space program and we had to get caught up from the Russian and all that sort of stuff but I never really thought much of it in the sense that I never saw myself part of that I was never airplane guy I was I was an air I mean I was never a space guy I was an airplane guy and I was an engine guy so I knew by the time I graduated from high school where I wanted to go I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer I wanted to work for some company I wanted to work for those one of those four aviators of those heroes that I wanted to do and I envisioned that at this age at this time in my life I would be 75 years old I would have a gold watch and I would have worked for Boeing for 45 years and I would have designed be working on their triple 70 that was my goal I mean I just I loved airplanes so I went to in 60 I started looking for colleges and I got accepted to Penn State and I still remember going to Penn State I got my application in and they sent me this letter which says congratulations come to Penn State during the Aero department and I was thrilled thrilled when I went to Penn State I had this little problem I looked through the curriculum and it said ROTC goodness gracious what's that Penn State was a land-grant institution they had mandatory ROTC you had to take two years of ROTC going into Penn State and so when you matriculated in the fundamental question they would ask is is it gonna be Army Navy or Air Force and for me it seemed obvious I'll do Air Force so I was in the Air Force ROTC program because that was what was happening the ROTC attack at detachment we must have had 2,000 people in it we had a division you would do it sign up as a freshman that would give you a uniform you take ROTC you went to class once a week you put on your uniform you went out on the parade field you marched around all that sort of stuff it was not a popular program you can imagine that on the campus of Penn State so as a Penn State from 60 to 64 just to give you a feel for what the world looked like from 60 to 64 we still had segregation in the South we had the civil rights movement so all of that was was bubbling up between 60 and 64 I always when I when I saw that in the news because I never never really experienced that in the United States and in Philadelphia I always consider anything south of the Mason Dixon line and east of Texas with enemy country I tried to stay out of that portion portion of this country because I didn't want to have to deal with that we also had women's live women were you know making noise it was exciting to go on the campus of Penn State and women were burning their bras and they get your attention it's hard to it's hard to study thermodynamics when you're walking down even you walk across the campus and you see women you were without bras on and you get your attention the drug war was coming on you got lsd and all of that sort of stuff the draft existed the draft existed so at 18 you had to sign up for selective service and there are people we were being drafted if you went to if you were on college campuses you got a college deferment but a lot of times towards the end that started to fade away so you had people who when they graduated from high school were drafted and so that was one of the one of the problems that the military had I was happy to see that they went all volunteer in 73 that was that was pretty cool but you had drafted so you had to consider that okay and then the fourth thing is you had this thing called the Vietnam War it was starting to heat up it was an unpopular war people did not want to do that so you started to get this this growing discontent within the community on the Vietnam War I don't know if you people have seen the the Ken Burns special on Vietnam it did a very good job on that so all of that was occurring when I was going through Penn State Penn State was a very comfortable environment I didn't see a lot of that but I saw it I saw it on the outside to give you an education so while I was at Penn State I turned 21 that was the same day that President Kennedy got killed so just to sort of give you a feel for what the world was like from 60 to 64 so at the end of two years that at Penn State you had to make a decision do you want to stay ROTC or you want to get out and most guys jumped out you know it wasn't a popular thing to do you turned in your uniform you handed it back to the ROTC detachment they would hand it out to the new freshman would come in so that was about what it is so I had to make a decision and I made a decision to go advanced ROTC I didn't really envision me being in the Air Force making it a career I just sort of went advanced ROTC it made sense I didn't want to be working for Boeing aircraft and get drafted okay gave me an opportunity to serve my government served my country it also gave me a few extra dollars to help me get through college so that's I went advanced ROTC when I did go advanced ROTC I could not pass the physical to be a pilot they complained about my high blood pressure I probably had stayed up all night you know partying or studying and then walked in the next day for a physical and I wasn't in probably in the greatest shape so I remember that the Air Force said well you know you could be a navigator if you want to be a navigator or you can do something else I wasn't interested in being a navigator so my plan was to go into the Air Force as an engineer engineer I said cool I'll go into the Air Force as an engineer I definitely want to be an engineer that's all I wanted to do that is my passion and if you take a look at my career that is my passion I mean you know everything else everything else revolves around this fact that hey I'm an aerospace engineer so I was going to go in the Air Force as an aerospace engineer so things were going sweet and dandy and between my junior and senior year went to ROTC summer camp and went up to Otis at Cape Cod four or five weeks it was inciting very interesting all that sort of stuff one of the things that was exciting about going to Otis is President Kennedy would fly in the Otis so you know I still remember seeing him come in with his wife Jackie and so that was a thrill the other thing that was thrilling was I got a ride and a T-bird wow that was cool they gave everybody a ride in this T-bird so that was a very interesting four or five weeks or whatever while I was at Otis at the end of summer camp they gave you a physical I still remember I was taking the physical and the flight surgeon said why don't you want to be a pilot I said well you know I couldn't pass the physical you know all that sort of he said no you you can be a pilot you pass the physical most people were worried about their eyesight no I didn't have any problems with the eyesight you know so I made a decision I'll be a pilot okay interesting enough I'll be a pilot my thinking at the time was hey I really want to be an aerospace engineer that's really what I wanted to do I'd be a better aerospace engineer if I knew how to fly him I thought I'd be a better aerospace engineer if I knew how to fly him so I made a decision between my junior and senior year that I would go into the Air Force as a pilot in my senior year ROTC for me was being in the flight introduction program FIP program the Air Force had this program where if you were a pilot candidate they would run you through a program where you can get your private pilot slices so in my senior year at Penn State things were real exciting I was in the aerospace engineering program taking arrow courses and when I went ROTC I went out to State College Pennsylvania teamed up with a guy by the name of Ken Farwell my instructor and we flew 150 Cessna 150 that was cool I still remember that I still remember soloing out in the machine and it was nice to be able to learn academics the aero academics and then to go out and actually see it in a flying machine so I mean that that whole year was exciting I still remember soloing out in the Cessna 150 the guy sent me solo a little too so I can tell because I hadn't mastered the low wing crosswind technique I still remember that I was it flew around for a while had a good time I came in down final to land the airplane and as I was coming in off there over the runway the airplane got blown off to one side and I had to take it around so I had to do that two or three times before I had to figure out that I had to line up just slightly to the right of the runway and have it blow me onto the runway and then I had that I had to have this discussion with Ken Farwell you know I hadn't gotten it all together but I remember soloing out I remember of the thrill of flying the airplane and buzzing the campus at Penn State there was I like that I still remember flying the airplane with Ken one time we were doing stalls stall recoveries all that sort of stuff I was doing it and I get I guess I had too much foot on one rudder pedal and next thing I knew I was in a spin and I remember the airplane spinning and I'm sort of looking at Ken wondering what's going on here you know and and my instructor just sat there you know we must have spun you know I don't know how far down but we must have spun a while before he said you know you need to you know don't put too much foot on the rudder pedals there as he recovered from the spin I remember that experience and then I remember going cross country so I realized I love fly you know hey make people pay you to make make sure that people pay you to have a good time I was having a good time so I graduated from Penn State in 1964 with a degree in aerospace engineering it was aerospace versus aeronautical because during the four years that I was there they changed the curriculum to accommodate instruction in space the only space course that I took was orbital mechanics which I enjoyed so I graduated with a degree in aerospace engineering I graduated with a private pilot's license I graduated with a commission in the United States Air Force I was excited I also happened to have met this woman in my freshman year who caught my attention and you know she was nice you know and then I stayed with her you know she was at sophomore she went to the Ogans campus at Penn State and then during my junior and senior year she ran out of money and she was working she was from Philadelphia as well and so I dated this woman for four years and as I was getting ready to graduate I envisioned myself going to Williams Air Force Base goggles white scarf and the Corvette Stingray that was the plan you know so as I was getting ready to graduate this woman sort of convinced me that hey you know you don't need to do all that you know we just run off together and I'll make life exciting so it was a toss-up you know and she won so for all of you who are wondering if I ever got a Corvette Stingray the answers and I always I always tell people all the time I'm a failure because my goal when I was going to Penn State was to work for Boeing aircraft and to own a Corvette Stingray and at 75 I have not been able to do either one I ended up doing something else okay so the wife is also from Philadelphia so it was an interesting adventure for both of us interesting adventure for both of us so I sat around for two or three months waiting for orders for pilot training I was a bit apprehensive I could have gone to pilot training in Moody Air Force Base in Val d'Asta Georgia I could have gone to Moody Air Force Base I could have gone to pilot training at Craig Air Force Base in so my Alabama and I think if they had done that that would have made pilot training that much tougher for me because I was not used to living in a type of environment but they sent me to Williams exciting we went out to Williams I still remember that the wife and I did we didn't have a car we didn't need a car we lived in any city Philadelphia we got around on public transportation wife didn't even know how to drive I've been oh okay I'm making sure I know where I'm picture was so we went to Williams I still remember orders said show up at Williams on January 15th well I stepped off the airplane in January 15th or whatever I got off the airplane and I figured I'd take a taxi to to Williams Air Force Base well not like Philadelphia so I eventually called the base and they sent a car out and they took me and the wife in and we stayed in the quarters and I still remember we stayed in the quarters and pilot training started the next day goodness gracious and here I was in Phoenix Arizona or in Williams I had no idea you know no transportation zip-o so I sent the wife over to the chaplain and the wife turned over to the chaplain said hey you know he he teamed her up with somebody in the congregation and during that one week somebody in the congregation drove her around Chandler Arizona she eventually found an apartment and we got settled in no car and pilot training started the next day we had 53 guys in our class about a third of our class was West Germans West Germans were coming through the program they'd go through pilot training they'd go from there to 104s and Luke and they were going over there so it was an exciting year it was an exciting year I enjoyed Williams it was new for both of us I envisioned I'd never been west of Pittsburgh maybe our State College Pennsylvania in my life so I and I anticipated that when I went out to Phoenix they'd still have horses and saloons and you know you know hop along Cassidy you know all that sort of stuff no it was a very different environment and I think the thing that struck me was how friendly the people were I'm an inner city guy so I mean I was raised up in an environment where you did it to them before they did it to you you know and all of that sort of stuff so I grew up basically in inner city and I got out to Phoenix Arizona and people were friendly they said hi on the streets I remember people saying in me wondering what turnip truck did that guy fall off of you know they stopped and let you walk across the street and fall it off and we'd run you down you know so I mean it was it was a different environment it was a pleasant environment that's one of the things I liked about the air forces I moved all over the country you got to get a good feel for the country I mean you know everything isn't like inner city Philadelphia so we had a good time in Philadelphia I mean and Williams I was coming up on graduating from pilot training the the standard deal was the the major commands would send in people to tell you about flying their machine so we had somebody come in from SAC talked about B-52s and 47s we had somebody come in from Mac fly C-124s and all that sort of stuff we got that sort of thing we had a guy come in from TAC tactical air command he was out of Davis Monthin and I still remember he flew this F4C in and he parked it on the ramp and I remember as a second lieutenant I remember going out to look at this machine I said would not like to get that thing that was the hottest thing on the on the planet you know I just wanted to get my hands on that thing so like all these second lieutenants I remember going down to the auditorium to listen to this tactical fighter pilot you know about this this machine and so we were all sitting in the auditorium and it's interesting we're all sitting in the back there you know we're all sitting in the back and this fighter pilot came up front he stood in front of us and he was six to two hundred twenty two hundred thirty pounds football player type you know if you guys want to fly in the front seat you got to come down front yeah that's what he said he was a black guy his name was Jappy James that's what he was it's the first time I saw an Air Force that saw a black pilot I mean there's so rare that this guy this guy talked about flying F4 you strapped the baby on and lightly after burners and all that sort of stuff I was thrilled I knew I had to do that and so he convinced me to be a gunfighter that's what I wanted to do so that's what I asked for and when I graduated from pilot training that's where I was going F4 so I was back seat or F4 going to Southeast Asia and I was thrilled to get an opportunity to fly in that machine that was really from there the wife and I went to Reno no I went to Reno for survival training February survival training I still remember that I'm standing out there in the woods snow is up to here you know so outdoor survival training all that sort of stuff it was interesting eight bugs POW training all that sort of stuff and then I went from there the wife and I went from there Davis Monthan so I can get radar training backseat radar training spend three or four months there that was a very nice assignment we enjoyed Tucson and Davis Monthan and that was it and then at that point I had to go to Tampa Bay to go to McDale Air Force Base and for me that was in in that was enemy country enemy country I still remember that so the wife and I put the kids in the backseat we drove across the country from Tucson to Tampa Florida I think one of the things that shocked me was we drove across Texas I didn't realize how big a state that was it took me a day and a half to get across the state from you know El Paso to Shreve or only car and you know I tell you on the map is not that big you know so we drove across and we stopped at Selma Alabama and I was hoping to stay overnight at Craig and so we drove in the Craig and tried to get overnight accommodations and they did not have them and then we spent most of the day running around trying to find a place to live people didn't blacks don't live here no we don't rent the blacks no we don't accept blacks in our hotels and motels I sort of never saw that before you were for the first time I felt as if I was a second-class citizen and that was a bad time because I was a first lieutenant I had two kids I had a degree in aerospace engineering I'm going to pins I'm going to war and in a situation where Americans really weren't that excited about it and I was being treated like a second-class citizen but we found a place we stayed at Holiday Inn I became a an advocate for holiday in front of a long time from there we drove into Tampa Florida we faced the same thing in Tampa Florida we were going to Mcdill got in the Tampa Florida and looking for a place to stay I was gonna be there five or six months going to our training and people know we don't rent the blacks you know the apartment guys would come up and look oh no we don't even do that I still remember dealing with real estate people the old and they would say oh blacks live in the ghetto to remember that we eventually found the place that was a house that was going to be demolished and the owner of the house would let us stay in the house for the five or six months that I was going to be there and that was how we spent our time in Tampa Florida went to F4 training great machine I enjoyed that was slick but I realized I was being treated like a second-class citizen that I always remember and I was going to war and I had two kids two kids but I went through F4 training was nice all that sort of stuff I like the machine you know I really for those guys who flew F4 we're all on the same page yeah when I graduated from F4 training I was going to the 433 attack fighter squadron 8th 8th attack file fighter wing I was going to U-bomb and I was going to join a couple of characters Colonel Robin Olds and Chappie James who ran that division so I was excited if you're gonna go if you're gonna go be a gun fighter you want to fly with the best and those guys were the best in root over I took the wife and kids to Philadelphia they really basically got settled in before I had to zip and then I went to Vietnam the thing that I remember on the wife is here was a woman who had two kids one and two who only had two who only had two degrees and who only had two years in college she was sending her husband off the war she didn't know if he was gonna come back she didn't know if I was gonna come back and she was living in an environment where people wanted and we were she was sort of a quote second-class citizen but she was also in a situation where she was sending her husband to war and in a situation where people weren't very popular weren't happy about the war so she have a great deal of admiration for in root over I stopped off at Clark in the Philippines greenest place I'd ever seen wow that was cool and while I was there as I stepped off the airplane they asked a proverbial question have you gone through jungle survival training I said no no no we need to stop you send you through jungle survival training and doing that I really I remember jungle survival training at Clark fabulous experience the base is so big that the jungles you know there are new gritos that live on the base that don't realize that they're living on an Air Force base they're just out there in the jungle but I remember going through jungle survival training one of the challenges was we had they gave us an exercise where you had to do scape and evasion overnight and then hop a helicopter I still remember that excitement you know you you they went to the negrito and they they they incentivize them to run through the jungle to find us we're doing scape and evasion overnight which was exciting you know I still remember I teamed up with some guy and we did the scape and evasion sort of thing and we got away I still remember him saying we were we were sleeping in the high bush bush the the reeds were up here and he was watching the rats run over me and I was sleeping through all of that but I remember the next day we we escaped and the next day they brought a helicopter in and I remember being hoisted up in the helicopter and I just said cool they pay me to do this yeah but I went to F4's they they while it was there they told me oh we need to send you to Cameron Bay so they did that they flipped me over and I went to Cameron Bay this is 5 57 when I showed up a camera on bay 12 tack fighter wing the 12th tack fighter had all moved over simultaneously I mean they just deployed the whole wing over the CB you know prepared the ground for this airport of this it is air base the enlisted men lived in tents enlisted men landed tents the officers the pilots lived in quonset huts and the senior management lived in trailers we taxied out on middle of tramp and planking all that sort of stuff so it was pretty rudimentary so it was it was an interesting experience flying in Cameron Bay was an exciting experience it's my first real Air Force job back CDF for Southeast Asia got to see the Air Force in action fly and fight this is how we do it that sort of thing we did everything we drop bombs all the way from the tip of South Vietnam to all the way up to no Hanoi and high-fiving so I was I did it all you know Laos North Vietnam package one all the way down to the cell there was some good things and bad things I enjoyed the support we gave in the cell it was nothing greater than to roll off the takeoff and bail somebody out who was in trouble or to support the army or arvin down there in the South you fly him to a place the little fat guy would get out there shoot his little rocket that puts your bomb and we did just that we got out there and put bombs where what so that was exciting we also had machines up for machine sitting on the alert pad and every so often you were assigned to the alert pad you would live in a trailer next to the runway the alarm would go off you'd run out you jump in your machine because you knew somebody was in trouble and you roared off to drop bombs on somebody because somebody needs you help those were exciting missions I still remember a mission where we drop bombs at night C-130 came in circled the circle the target air drop flares and you're peeling in in between flares to drop bombs here that was I made life exciting you know I enjoyed them but we also drop bombs and Laos Laos was a different thing did a lot of dropping bombs on suspected truck parks and all that sort of stuff you wondered if you were risking your life to for nothing you drop bombs in North Vietnam you wondering what was going on the thing that bothered us was as we were doing that the company the enemy got stronger and stronger so there was some frustration along with that hey I lost my picture oh well is the picture here okay that's why I'm looking out lost the picture in the back so Vietnam was very interesting very interesting I got to see how the Air Force flew you know and good points and bad points we did well in the South I thought we did poorly in the north we were not imaginative imaginative enough we were not aggressive enough and we fought as if we we didn't want to win I was convinced that if we if if we if they let the aren't if they let the military lose we could have killed it off in six months you know I mean we were so is that but I took a great deal of pride and working with the 557 there were four wing I mean there were four squadrons as part of the 12 attack fighter wing we all took a great deal of pride in what we did we probably flew two out of every three days so it was very interesting you get up you go down to the ops office and you find out if you want the fighter pilots when they had to time off we built a hooches you know so you go down to the hooch you deal with some sergeant who had in supply he give you lumber and each of the squadrons built their own hooch and we all had our own little bars you know so when you didn't have anything you hung out at the squadron bar and that went out that went out that went pretty well the guy started selling drinks at the squadron bars and there was some angst associated with that because the person who ran the officers club started to complain that we were competing against the guys in the officers club they had to cut off selling the drinks and the squadron hooches but that was fine that was a way of relieving tension and all that sort of stuff but we took a great deal of pride in what we did and all that sort of stuff I remember the fact that I went over with eight people six of us came home this was war six of us came home I remember a guy by the name of Larry Silvers he got shot down and killed just north of Saigon dropping napalm the other person was guy that I brought up today yesterday Harry Harold Monlux the guy that I went over with who got shot down and spent up was a prisoner of war for seven years so you know this was a war the wing lost maybe a plane maybe one or two planes so a month and we recovered probably half the crew I had a guy who roamed with me who came in maybe a couple months before I left who got shot down over north Vietnam which is interesting he got he got hit over north Vietnam they drove the airport they drove the F4 out over Tonkin gall these guys jumped out of the gall he was in the water he was telling me he was being shot at from the shore the Navy drove a destroyer between him and the shore you know and picked him up they brought him back and what they did was they gave him maybe two seconds to think about it they threw him back in the airplane and he was all flying again don't think about it you got six or seven more months of this we used to kid him all the time you haven't been in country any longer you've already been shot down goodness gracious you know and you got nine more months to go good no I took a great deal of pride in that great great organization great people we were dedicated to what we're doing a great deal of pride in being an F4 driver so I came up for reassignment the Air Force sort of hinted at hey you know we'll upgrade to you to the front seat you know all that sort of stuff you volunteer for the front seat will send you to Europe well they reneged on that oh no I don't think we need to update you that soon and then they sent a bunch of guys who were back seaters to Europe and kept them in back seaters that I thought was a bad deal and I know guys he jumped ship because of that I really wasn't interested in and that I figured I had a choice between flying 106's or t38's I wanted to be home I'd been away from home for nine months you know the wife never saw me for nine months am I running at a time oh my goodness oh I better speed this thing up I sorry I'm sorry oh my goodness that's what happens when you put me on so you don't want to do that you don't want to do that oh okay I'm sorry I'll speed this thing up so I flew I went to shepherd I went to shepherd great job upt base I was g38 instructor pilot I love the job the thing I liked about the job was I was good at it I was good at it and people knew it took me a while to be good at it but you know when you're good at it when everybody from the wind commander to your peers will tell you you're good I was good at it but shepherd I had to decide if I want to stay in the Air Force or not I'm gonna stay in the Air Force and I had this degree at aerospace engineering I wanted to use it I didn't want to spend my life you know flying airplanes you know there are people who love flying airplanes I'm an aerospace engineer so I poked the Air Force about I'm gonna try and talk real fast and the Air Force guys said well if you want to be an engineer you have to have a master's degree I didn't have a master's degree so I spoke with the Academy guys the guys really told me to take a walk long walk off a short period we don't need you I spoke with the effort guys the effort guys said oh you probably need to do a little more work on your GPA because it was a 2.44 out of a 4.0 so I wasn't sterling so I spent four years at shepherd doing something that I really wanted to do but I knew that I was gonna have to make a decision all that sort of stuff I worked for a guy who encouraged me to stay that's how I showed up at SOS he offered me you need to go to SOS I'm not gonna stay he forced me to go to SOS I still remember going to SOS thinking I'm really not gonna stay around that long guys but in 71 as my commitment was coming to an end I had taken four or five courses with the University of California Berkeley because I was gonna get out and go to grad school so I started applying to grad school and I happened to also apply to AF it one more time and the effort guys said okay we'll take a look at you you know and they did that and I still remember in 71 I got my Air Force times you know everything we wouldn't find out anything about going on the Air Force you read it in the Air Force time I got this Air Force times and someplace on the cover it said there's a list of guys you got selected for AF it you know and I oh my goodness my name is on this list you know here I am about ready to deep six Air Force and and discover my name is on this list and so I decided to make an Air Force the career I mean it was really just that simple I went through about six or seven years you know I wasn't sure I wanted to do this thing with Air Force all that sort of stuff because I really wanted to be an aerospace engineer and the Air Force was saying okay we'll let you do that so when went to AF it I loved AF it I did so well at AF it that even surprised me for a guy who got 2.44 out of a 4.0 average at Penn State you know about three quarters into AF it I had an instructor come up past me in the hall one day and say you're doing pretty well you know you might want to stay on for the PhD program you know I just sort of said yeah my problem with the master's degree program at AF it was ahead all these great courses that I wanted to take I couldn't get them because I was going to graduate and I couldn't get to them you know so I applied for the PhD program and got accepted into the pre a tree program while I was still in the master's degree program and the deal was so I found myself in the master's degree program taking both masters and PhD courses to finish it up try to try to reduce the amount of time I spent in classroom and that worked out well I had to choose a minor for the PhD program and I don't know well do laser physics how about that I'll do laser had no idea so I chose laser physics I still remember thinking PhD program a few more courses you know just a little thesis at the end all that sort of stuff I jumped into the PhD program and said oh my goodness what did I do to do this you know the most challenging thing I've ever done anytime people ask me was the proudest thing I've ever done in my career I got a PhD in aerospace engineering so I did that I left AFFIT I went to the flight dynamics lab to do my dissertation these guys I'm sorry can you send me give me about 10 to 15 minutes you got these guys want to hear about me flying in space okay I mean that's why they're here for you know they don't hear all those other stuff you know so so I did AFFIT I was the number one guy in my AFFIT class on master's degree I went on for the PhD program I knew I had gotten over my head wow but I was able to do it really stretch me and then I got my PhD program I got it completed and they gave me a fabulous job I ran an engineering branch in the Air Force Flight Dynamics Lab had 45 engineers two wind tunnels we did cutting-edge research and error we supported the Spose we did two 2d nozzles AF nozzles we worked on the inlets for F-16s they came to us about extending the length on the C-141 the guys at Kirkland wanted to talk to us about some of the aerodynamics associated with the airborne laser lab we do stuff we did work with NASA out there on the west coast and computational fluid dynamics we worked with the guys at Edwards we worked with the guys at Langlam I had a guy come in from DARPA who wanted to deal with the forward swept wing here we did that research that led to this X-29 it was fabulous fabulous but I had this problem the Air Force came to me and said you gotta go back to flying airplanes oh oh yeah I'd been out of the cockpit for six years I had to get three more years of flying had to get back to flying so I said okay fighters you know they kept saying T-37 fighters I saw that on the on the tape they screwed up on that tape that showed I did not I did not want to fly that machine I'd been five years you know flying T-38s I did not want to be a tweet driver and but the big thing is I thought I could do more in life than be a tweet driver why would I walk away from a bachelor's master's PhD aerospace engineer all that sort of stuff to be a tweet driver for three years I could do more in life with that that that always frustrates me you know you got to be careful with these personnel guys you know I think they come they spend too much time filling slots but they're not working to develop your careers you got to be real careful with them so so you know in in my frustration and all that sort of stuff I saw NASA was looking for astronauts I didn't know if I wanted to be an astronaut or not I'm an airplane guy you know and nobody's gonna select me for the astronaut program anyway so I should not worry about that but in the end I said I hate to be a tweet driver so I applied for the astronaut program you know and I figured they won't accept me anyway but whatever you know so I went through the selection process the Air Force looked at a bunch of people they sent a hundred names to NASA NASA looked at 8,000 people they went it down to 200 finalists I was in Washington DC when I was selected as a finalist candidate because I was there talking to the Navy guys and the Langley guys about arrow and then they invited me to Houston to do to do the physical that was interesting I showed up in Houston for the physical and I was there with 19 other people who all leaped tall buildings with a single bound and walked on water and I still looked around trying to figure out how did I get here or not so it was interesting they gave you a physical that lasts a week so if you're hiding anything you might as well forget it okay then they send you through a psychiatrist you know and then you have an opportunity to meet these astronauts who are really cool guys you know and then they talked to you about this vehicle that they're hoping to fly so all that sort of stuff but I never really gave it much thought until in January of 70 I was driving to work one Monday morning and I heard on the radio that these guys selected 35 astronauts and I said oh I wonder who these guys are that they selected and then I was at work maybe a couple hours when I got this call from the strange guy named George Abbey who said hey you know what's the weather like and Dayton and I said the drifts are up here and we got 40 to 50 not wins is the worst winter I ever had and all that sort of stuff and he said you know it doesn't snow in Houston would you like to come to Houston and at that point I knew I'd gotten selected for the astronaut program fantastic changed my life it did so 35 of us got selected this is the picture of our class there were 15 test pilots who all thought they were the hottest thing since Swiss cheese you know and then there were 20 mission specialists I came in as a mission specialist and that sort of thing we had six women in the program all of them smart super women there were three African Americans in the program me Ron McNair and Fred Gregory we were all hot to do this thing NASA was developing this thing called the shuttle we're gonna fly this thing in 79 just hang in there you know that sort of stuff so we all showed up we were excited about fly I went through the training they give you they send you through simulators academic training all that sort of stuff which was nice and interesting then they said oh you got a fly airplanes I said oh I know I gotta get three hours three years of flying you know gate we'll give you a t-38 you'll put you in the front seat and you have to get 15 or 20 hours a month like t-38 I said oh my goodness 15 or 20 hours a month like that thing oh my goodness I gotta run out there and do that you know just like rare rare rare rabbit don't don't throw me into that briar badge you know that sort of stuff so I spent 15 years with NASA got 3200 hours flying that machine sweet you can't beat that for anything in the world but besides them supposed to fly in space they checked me out and the to do EVA stuff all that sort of stuff we flew the shuttle for the first time in 81 cool machine I wasn't sure if it's gonna fly it worked out nice you know I was at Edwards when the thing came in dick John Young and Crip brought the thing in I was representing ABC I was their astronaut so I saw that come in and I thought that was cool we had a machine and 82 these guys said we want you to fly okay so I got selected to fly in 83 and this is the first flight STS-8 first night launch and first night landing of the vehicle fabulous vehicles a crew of five dick truly was a commander who's flying for the second time he had four rookies and I was one of those rookies and I was I was the guy I was the flight engineer I worked with a pilot and commander and flying machine I was responsible for kicking out the satellite all that sort of stuff you climb in this machine we climbed in at two o'clock in the morning we launched out you rock it up on the solid rocket boosters it's a noisy bumpy ride you rock it up for two minutes you go from zero velocity to about 120,000 feet you go from zero to Mach three noisy bumpy ride you hit Mach three the solid rocket boosters go off very smooth ride you go from Mach three to Mach 25 in six and a half minutes cool we did something that was very interesting we recorded the intercom I'm going to try and speed this conversation up I'm sorry slow it up very speed this conversation so we recorded the intercom and I still remember after we got down they played the intercom you know we and there was this giggle in the background you know you heard this giggle in the background you know and we as the crew trying to figure out what this giggle was well the giggle was me oh my goodness wow so you're on orbit this is the view out the window fabulous view out the window zero g is spectacular all that sort of stuff I deployed the satellite we destroyed the satellite and then we had to bring the vehicle home and I'm always convinced you can always tell this vehicle was designed by Rockwell Corporation it didn't have any landing light that's why Rockwell is not in the business anymore you don't build a machine without a landing light so we had to figure out how to land it we did it at night so after the flight there was all this hoopla oh my goodness guy blew for leaps tall buildings with a single bow no I'm just a lieutenant colonel is part of this crew all it sorts of I went through three months of PR stuff three months of PR stuff the crew after you get down from flying you as a crew you go around and you try and thank the people who made it made the flight happen that to me is very important we did that that lasted for about a week all these other guys disappeared and I found that I was the only guy doing it and I was going all over the country doing PR stuff this is this is one thing that occurred while it occurred while I was doing it I got an invitation I went to the pentagon I had a special day the wife and I had a special day we got an invitation to the pentagon to by the chief of staff of the Air Force who hosted a reception in my name reception in my name and gave me my command pilot astronaut was that was fabulous slick and I showed up in the morning I'd never been in the and this and pentagon in my life but I did this thing with the chief he was very nice I still remember all these general walking by shaking my hands and I was an LC wondering what did I do to deserve this but whatever I brought the wife you can see I brought the way what made the day special was that afternoon I changed clothes I went over to the National Air and Space Museum I joined up with President Reagan we celebrated the 25th anniversary of NASA that was special then that evening the wife and I got an invitation to Blair House Casper Weinberger invited us to dinner at Casper at Blair House I still remember that we got into the taxi we went over to Blair House it was just a row house are we at the right place you sure okay you go and knock on the door oh come on in and so we were hosted that evening by Casper Weinberger very special very special I had a great deal of pride for all that but I was having too good of a time at the end of us and other things at the oh no I don't think I'll say that so at the end of the year this was 80 this was 83 I was eating 19 years in the service I was an LC I'd been offered a slot at Air War College all that sort of stuff and then I had mail up to the good zoos I was putting I was pulling the plug on on this PR stuff and as I was fishing through the mail I got this letter from the Under Secretary of Defense for personnel and the letter said congratulations blah blah blah blah blah you've been promoted to 06 so I said president got involved in that and I got promoted so I had 19 years I was 06 very and then I had to make a decision do I return to the Air Force what do I do all that sort of stuff well the first thing I want to do is fly one more time I love flying in space I adapt easily I don't get sick I like the zero G the view out the window that sort of stuff they turn me around and put me on 61 alpha so this is the second flight I teamed up with three European astronauts I went to Europe I learned how to do a whole different whole lot of experiments fluid physics crystal-grown physiology all that sort of stuff and in 85 I flew in space for the second time on space lab I ran sort of the space lab operation we had 76 different experiments and we work 24 hours shift we work 12 hour shifts and so here I was I worked with Ernst measurement we did all sorts of experiments I'm speeding it up I'm working so okay okay okay I'll I flew on STS 39 there's STS 39 STIO guys I enjoyed that STS 53 which was classified I'd be able that was a classified DOD I'd happy to tell you about that I have to shoot all of you some of you some of you that was the crew of that and that was the wife that made it happen I had to retire it's coming up on retirement you know they do throw you out of the Air Force and I knew I was coming up on that so I had to leave so I looked around I found a guy by the name of Fig Newton fellow flyer and he handed the retirement for me so I was always appreciative of that I'm an Air Force officer take a great deal take a great deal of pride in being that though I wandered off to NASA for 15 years and I will I've worked an industry of which I enjoyed I still remind myself that I I take a great deal of pride in being one of you okay thank you very much thank you dr. Bluford