 The federal government said it successfully evacuated all Nigerians that were stranded in the crisis-reading Sudan's capital, Khatam. The Permanent Secretary and the Federal Ministry of Humanitarian Affairs, Dr. Sani Gwazo, said these when he received the second batch of 130 Vakuis at the Innamdi Azikawe International Airport in Abuja. The Vakuis arrived at the pilgrim's terminal of the airport at exactly 3.30 p.m. local time on board the Taco Aircraft B-373-300 from Port Sudan. Speaking for the Katharine Udofia Director of Migration Affairs National Commission for Refugees, Migrant and Internally Displaced Person, said the commission would also be providing psychosocial support to the returners. We're now being joined by an international expert, Paul Ejima. Thanks so much for joining us this evening. Paul, if you can hear me, it's good to have you join us on the news now. Yes, thank you, let's say a good evening to your viewers. Alright then. Niger and Egypt are the first and third biggest countries in Africa, if you want to look at it. And we seem to have a trade volume of around $400 million. What could be the geographical complexity between these two countries, especially preventing an amicable resolution of stranded Nigerians returning from Sudan? So, well, I think the external Affairs Minister in Nigeria should be able to answer this question. But one can only guess what is not going right because it's not really during this crisis that you begin to look at relations between the two countries. It ought to be continuum, since if you have established diplomatic relations, you need to work at it, since it's based on reciprocity, that is the rule, that is the rule of engagement. So there could be some strains in the relationship, but if we were to go back to history or political history, you know that by nature, the North African countries are not really too keen on, they see themselves as more Arab than African. So their relationship with the, you know, sub-Saharan Africa is always one that, if they have to gain something, that is when they really try to. So it will be based, like what I'm saying, that perhaps there are some frictions that nobody is telling, which has now come up during this conflict. So they ought to work at it, the two countries, they have ambassadors in the two countries, so they also have made sure that this type of thing does not call and put so many lives at risk. But, you know, let's move the conversation a bit further to the human angle. Well, according to the UN HL, international borders are not zones of exclusion or exception for human right obligation, and yet we'll also understand that states have the right to govern migration within their jurisdiction. But what can you say is the line of departure in Egypt's handling of stranded Nigerians? I mean, in relation to these, those who are transiting Egypt, you know, from Sudan? Well, you know, this is an emergency situation, and I would have expected that some extraordinary measures would have been taken to make sure that it's not the time to begin to profile people, to say you must have your passport or have your ID, once the embassy. Because this is where it depends on how the foreign missions of these two countries, they all have come together, called to the ministry of foreign affairs in that place. Make sure, I think, you know, you can blame them for protecting their own interests, making sure that nobody, in the case of people trying to flee Sudan, that they don't end up in Egypt. I think that is what they are trying to avoid. But in doing so, you do not also put these lives at risk. So a middle ground ought to have been reached to make sure that they have the guarantee from the Nigerian side that, listen, we are taking charge of whoever and guarantee and, you know, indemnify the fact that anybody who we have taken, we have profiled, we have collected at a point, will not have the possibility of slipping into Egypt. But we will go from Sudan up to the point where, the point of evacuation from there to Nigeria. That is not the time to begin to talk about money, what we are going to get from these people or their visa. But anyway, these are all African countries. These two countries belong to the AU, they belong to the UN, like you mentioned. Why is it now, why is it so difficult? But again, remember that they don't want to take chances that are criminals, you need to, for security, I think national security. But you do not now overemphasize that to the extent of putting in burial the lives of citizens of other countries, because that also will breach international convention. So that is the situation and I think Nigerian diplomats have a long way to go. And it's not only Nigeria. So if, but if Nigeria is affected in any peculiar way, then you begin to question the approach, the strategy that has been employed, why didn't they use the same strategy that other countries have used who have successfully evacuated their own citizens? So that is it. But like I said, because it's too complex and complicated, what is just too sad that this is rarely said in this, you know, at this time of a crisis. People are traumatized. The least they can do if they are running away from war situation in a country in Sudan. I think they all want to go to safety. But again, the point is, whether some Nigerians are also not trying to find their way to stay, maybe they don't want to come back. You have to also have to make allowance for that. And so Egyptian authorities, security will be very strict to make sure that that does not happen. They don't want to welcome any illegal immigrants. If you are coming there, you have to come, you know, the legal way and so on and so forth. But this is something they have, they also have discussed through consultation, through, you know, engagement that will ensure that nobody is hot. But unfortunately, that hasn't happened. I hope it's a learning curve. Nigeria will learn, the Egyptians will also learn, and the Nigerians will learn and Nigerian diplomats will also learn how to engage. But also, anyway, let me not go into the fact that there are too many hoops, you know, that they say spoiled, as brought, the fact that not only Nigeria's foreign affairs ministry is involved makes it complicated. If you have NEMA, you have the Aspera Commission, you have the Ministry of Humanitarian Affairs. This case, while they are there, for Christ's sake, involves just the foreign ministry. It is when they get back to Nigeria that you now begin to talk about, because if you have to make the Egyptians deal with so many, you know, agencies at the same time, they may feel confused and then say, okay, you sort yourself out before we can deal with you or determine who we have to engage. This type of untidy situation can delay things or constitute a clog in the wheel of negotiation or progress. But like I'm saying, I'm only just a congression or making some presumptions. We're actually going to get to that particular part of it, even though you have stated some of it, but I'd like that you speak on this issue, the actions that are open to the Nigerian government in exploring an amicable resolution to these. You have talked about having a unified form in the case of this conflict. What other issues do you think the Nigerian government can explore? Plus, do you also think that we have actually handled this in a very awesome manner? Well, that is what you call the early warning system. The foreign ministry or the function of an embassy in a foreign land is to be able to monitor the security, you know, analysis, risk analysis, to know when it is safe to and advise your home government that listen, this is the time, this is what we can do. If that advice is not coming or if that advice when it comes is not acted upon, this can lead to delay. This can, you know, it's a chain, you know, by the time, you know, like a relay race, if anybody drops the ball or drops the baton, it's going to affect the whole thing. But the Nigerian reputation is at stake. We shouldn't have allowed that to happen. You begin early. If you don't wait until, you know, you start, the shootout starts before you see countries give them travel advice, you know, advisory. So they had citizens say, don't go, don't travel to this place or don't remain at home and or gather at a safe place where it will be easy for evacuation. But that hasn't happened. Remember also that Nigerians, some Nigerians, not everyone, they make it difficult because they do not register with the embassy. They go there on their own. Remember how do they go? Some go by sea, others go through the desert. So some forms of, they call it irregular migration. And when they do that, they do not take the embassy into consideration. It's only when now they run into trouble. Otherwise, the thing to do is that when you are, as a foreigner in a foreign land, you have to register with your embassy. But the point is, some of them will say, well, the embassy hasn't been of any, has not covered itself in glory. They are not of any help, so you don't bother. But at the end of the day, when there is crisis, you now start blaming the embassy on your country. Yes. So I think it's a complex, it requires an action from all sides, both the citizens and then the government. All right. Thank you so much, Paula Jimet, for joining us this evening on the news now. Would you appreciate your time?