 Well, Jim, your father and LBJ were old, old friends going back to the early 50s, I guess. Even before, Dad got to know President Johnson when he was a senatorial candidate in 1948. Dad was Air Force Secretary. So he went charging down to Texas and campaigned like the dickens for him. I think he helped a little because that was a rather close race, as you know, and every vote counted, maybe twice some of them. But anyway, they became fast friends at that time. And 52, four years later, after Dad had three or four other jobs under Truman, Chairman of the National Security Resources Board and RFC Chairman, he ran for the Senate in 52 and joined the President there, and the President became leader. And their friendship continued. It was a little frayed, I think, as they approached 1960 because they seemed to be on the same track, you know, nothing like presidential politics to divide old friends for three minutes anyway. They got over that, and then I think it was hard for the President when Dad came out against the Vietnam War that he did it. From a Hawks perspective, he'd been on a carrier. Young pilots said, why does my government worry more about North Vietnamese lives and my life? And Dad said, what are you talking about? And then he showed him the kind of targets they were hitting that they didn't think were that important but well defended. And then the captain came down and said, yeah, that's it. So Dad said, I'm against the war and made a speech about it. That was 1966 or 7. And I think that hurt a little bit because I know it did because I remember I was chief of protocol at the time, and we'll get back to that in a minute, but Hubert Humphrey, I took the Prime Minister Lee of Singapore, who was one of the few Asians who were totally supporting President Johnson and a very anti-communist kind of guy, a tough guy. Double first at Oxford and that kind of stuff. And I took him in to see Humphrey, Vice President Humphrey, who had no idea that he'd be a candidate for that office at that point later on and said, Humphrey said, well, Mr. Prime Minister, even though Jimmy's dad doesn't think this is a good idea, we know it's the right thing. It was a little awkward for me because I wasn't there to defend my father but to present the Prime Minister. And as we know, Humphrey himself had to carry that load through his own campaign and began to switch toward the end. But anyway, all that's over the dam. I would like to put a marker down that I think the President was enormously strong to carry all that he did all those years and get so much legislation passed, lean on the Southern senators, get the civil rights through. I don't know anyone could have done it. Anyone else could have done it in that time frame. I don't know if we've ever had a President could have done it that way. So of course the war wore down his strengths a lot and his serenity. Mrs. Johnson, of course, was always such an important person in his life and kept him going beautifully well. So I first met the President myself right after he came to the Senate. They lived in Chevy Chase and the girls were little and dad took me out and mother to have tea with the Johnsons on Sunday, a couple of them sat on that. They had a sort of veranda porch and it was kind of fun to see these two boys talking about the country and the future. And I don't know that they golfed together. I don't know the President that much of a golfer but dad played a lot in those days with Clifford and that crowd and Smathers, who was a golfer, but those were the days when they talked about the committee which would meet and with Rayburn and all they'd sit around and talk over a little bourbon about things. It was a congenial time for the Senate. There was a lot of mutual respect and mellow discussion. Friendship, parenthetically, I don't quite see that today and people all seem to be on a slightly different track and they're carving out their own careers. There seem to be a symbiotic relationship in those days between some of these titanic individuals, Russell and Irvin and Senator Johnson and dad and all. Those were pretty good days from that perspective before he became President. They got it much harder for him. The presidential race, dad didn't go into the primaries, I think he felt and was advised by Clifford that it's very costly, you might be perceived as a Protestant alternative to Kennedy as your friend, you don't want that to happen and the primaries are expensive and there's no need because Johnson and Kennedy are so strong they'll cancel each other out and you're everybody's second choice. That wasn't bad advice and it just failed by one state. He got all the way to Wyoming on the first roll call and they put Kennedy across. So then the question on the vice presidential thing, dad, I don't know how interested he really was in the vice presidency but it seemed logical that everybody seemed to want him and I remember he called us up to his room and right after the nomination of Kennedy and said, boys, we got a question now, do I accept the vice presidency? We said, no, you don't want the vice presidency, you didn't come here to carry a guy's coat around for four to eight years, you're prime of life, you go to go back to Washington and get to work and make your own views known and felt. So you don't want to do that. So that's very interesting. Now Clark, what do you have to say? And if you've ever heard Clark as a barrister, you'll know what we went through at that point. He said, well, let me see now. We've nominated this young Irishman to head up the ticket, the Democratic ticket. He's their standard bearer. And let's see, he'll be running against Richard Milhouse, Nixon, is that right? Would you fellows agree with that? Yes, of course. So he'll have many questions for his fellow Democrats and how they can help him. I'm just turning over my mind. What question could he have that's more important than will you go with me? Will you be my running mate in this challenge? And what I hear you boys saying is, no, you don't do that. Give us something else to do. We're not going to do that. Is that what you're saying? So we said, OK, we give up. So I remember going to bed that night thinking, well, that's the way it's going to be. In the morning, my wife and I were in the hotel room in early morning and turned on the TV and there was Kennedy. He clearly looked like an unmade bed. He hadn't been to sleep for 24 hours. And he got all the names and titles wrong. He said, we were thinking of Senator Loveless of Iowa. Loveless was the governor of Iowa. He said, we gave some consideration to Senator Docking of Kansas. Docking was the governor of Kansas. So I thought, boy, this guy's really coming apart. And then he said, OK, and we certainly gave consideration to my good friend, Senator Signington. So we got the title right. And that's what we call mixed emotions because in a way we were not sure he should be a vice president candidate, but totally convinced he had to do it if he was asked and probably should do it. But that's when we learned that Johnson, because of the Texas and all the important reasons for taking. So my dad was very, very calm about it. I think he felt maybe even slightly relieved. If you saw the way they each spoke after Kennedy's announcement, and dad threw away his notes and said some lovely things about Kennedy as being the reason he's up there, not any of us. He worked harder. We got the issue straight and everything. So he was very noble about it and correct and went about his business as we had expected and hoped he might do in the Senate. And that took us in, well, it was another few years before, well, let's see, that was 1960-61. And that's when dad got involved in the, what we thought was the missile gap, that national security was his most important issue, although we took a lot of interest in other things like farming from Missouri, that's an important issue too. So I didn't really catch up too much with the president again myself until, let's see, 1964, he ran on his own. And that's when I took my guitar and sang all over the place, folk songs and stuff. And I spent some time with Linda and Lucy making barbecues come together and maybe they came out to St. Louis and Bush's Grove, Gussie Bush's marvelous farm out there and they all came out for a terrific barbecue fundraising thing. And on the strength of that, because of all the guitar playing, I think the president thought I knew something about music because when he was getting ready for the inaugural, he named me Chairman of the Music. I knew absolutely nothing about bands and orchestras. I remember I sang with one once when I was in New York in law school, but that's about it. So I got hold of Peter Duchin of New York, an old friend of mine, and he helped me put these bands together. And we were very good. I think we got a lot of bands from around the country, lesser known ones, but we had, of course, Lionel Hampton and some of the great bands. We had to have Meyer Davis and, I forget that other guy, but we had a good inaugural. And in order to go to all the sites because of the traffic, I rode a bicycle all over the place. I just got on a bike and went from one hotel to another and to see that everything was going smoothly. It was fun. And then I was asked to come back. I had been, you know, in the Kennedy administration as a food for peace deputy director under my government, which was a great experience to travel around and get people eating American wheat and drinking the milk. It was a wonderful thing. And then I had been Bob Kennedy's AA in justice from 62 to 3 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And this was going back before Johnson was present, Kennedy was present. But I'm just going back over the years. And then I went back into law in Arnold Fortes and Porter in 63 just before the end of the President Kennedy's life and term. And was asked to come back into the Justice Department as I think they called it executive director of the President's Committee on Juvenile Delinquency, which was a committee consisting of Katzenbach as chairman, he being the AG John Gardner, who was this marvelous fellow that was Secretary of HEW, I think they called it at that time. And Willard Wirt, Secretary of Labor, because those are the three agencies whose policies impacted on young people one way or the other. And I really enjoyed that job working with judges and juvenile courts and probation officers, trying to think of ways to get kids out of trouble and keep them out of trouble. And that's when the President in 1966, out of the blue, I was at a conference of judges in New York and the phone rang. And they said, it's the White House, it's the President. I said, yeah, sure, it's the President. And I went into the phone and I heard the voice, Jimmy, yes, Mr. President, Lloyd Han has quit. Will you do it? Quit what, Mr. President? He was chief of protocol, and I'm asking to do it. Will you do it? Will you know? When the President of the United States says, will you do it? Even though I wasn't quite sure what it was all about, you say yes, and then you run to the dictionary and try to find out what it is you've agreed to do. But I said, yes, sir, Mr. President, good, I'm glad to hear it. And so I remember calling up my wife, Sylvia, and say, get ready for this one. And so anyway, then we took the oath of office, or I took it, family standing by, my mother and wife and two little kids. And when Dean Rusk administered the oath of office, he said a funny thing. He said, you've now graduated from the world of juvenile delinquency to the world of adult delinquency. And so it was. I remember I had to go running off to the White House to get to meet the ambassador of the Sudan. And this was my, within the first half hour of my stewardship of the protocol office, I meet this fellow who speaks French only. We got through that all right. We went inside the house, the diplomatic entrance, you know, the back side. And I had no idea where to take him. And I looked at the ushers like, you know, give me a hint. They just backed away and smiled. They figured, you're the chief, you know, so I walked down this corridor. I finally decided to open a door and we walked in, it was a broom closet. And he said to me, same old premier, it was my first time in your country, as if to say, smoke me out. What is this ritual? Did it happen to George Washington or something? So I said, it's my first day on the job. So we went up to, we all laughed and went up to the president and received this fellow. He was the, did I tell you, ambassador of Sudan? I think he was. And so we had a great run in that, I say we because it's kind of a team thing. If it's a male protocol chief but there have been a lot of very good female ones and I think their husbands have ducked the duty but the wives don't get to do that. And you know, the president was, he was very generous and good to us. He could only, he got sore a couple of times. And I disappointed him once or twice. I know. I'm thinking of one time when Lucy was getting married, he said absolutely no gifts from the world. I don't want the country saying the president's getting his daughter married and getting all this. These treasures from 117 other countries. So I let the dean of the diplomatic corps know that we will not countenance gifts. So we want, we were trying to forestall the possibility of any gifts. And he understood and he produced for Lucy, the entire diplomatic corps put some money into a kind of a silver tea set or something. It was a nice way for a general collective gift and I thought that was the end of it. One day I got a call from the president. Jimmy, what about no gifts? I said, yes sir, there were no gifts. Well apparently, Haile Selassie, the lion of Judah decided that never mind gifts, I'm going to give a gift and he gave it, but here's what happened. It was sent to New York. I think it was a golden place setting thing and maybe it was very valuable. And I had known about it because the customs had called me and said, what do we do with this? And I said, just hang on to it, put it under wraps. We'll decide later, you don't reject a gift from the emperor of any country because, and I'll tell you a minute, what happened to Jefferson when he had a problem like that? So I thought I'd handle it, it won't get out and that's when the call came in, Jimmy. There was a story going around and Haile Selassie sent something and he said, I think the State Department might have leaked it. And I said, Mr. President, I can't imagine the State Department, anybody doing such a thing. You can't imagine that, boy, you got no imagination, I gotta tell you. In fact, I don't think I put it quite as succinctly as he did, holy smokes. I didn't have any idea, I mean, I was a little naive, I guess, but anyway, we got through that okay. There was a couple of other things in Thailand, for example, he said, no, I don't want a lot of these long anthems because I get hot. Well, the anthem, when we arrived in Thailand, it was about five minutes long, and he was standing with his head bowed at about 112 degrees of heat looking at me through the side of, so I was trembling throughout that. I'm jumping around and I'm trying to think of the embarrassing moments. There was one more here, I want to- Do you know what? I don't know. I gotta tell you, I think it was just swallowed up, but it may have wound up in the GSA where GIFs, I had to testify before Senator Fulbright's committee anyway on GIFs to American diplomats or officials when they go abroad because apparently the law as it was when I took office provided that you could accept anything, but you couldn't keep it until after you left office. And so the State Department had an attic filled with all these fantastic things. And so Fulbright said, look, let's say you can't take it at all if it's over $100 or something like that in value. Well, that seemed like a good approach, but then you could keep it yourself and the department doesn't have to be a storage house. So I had to go and testify on behalf of that bill because the President supported the bill and I was the kind of the steward of the results of the bill. And so Fulbright said, what do you think of this bill? And I said, Senator, if you like it, I like it. And Fulbright turned my father was on his committee and said, I haven't had an answer like that many, many years. Anyway, so we lived with it for a while and I think they've had to hike it up a little because there's hardly anything under $100, not except a plastic doll or something like that. So I haven't checked lately to see how protocol handles gifts, but I think probably they've raised the amount. And it's not uniformly enforced or anything like that. I think probably some people shave on that a bit, but it goes back. It's a constitutional requirement that you don't accept emoduments and gifts from foreign governments. Getting back to the idea of refusing a gift upfront, which is an affront, apparently there was a consul in North Africa during Jefferson's presidency who received the viceroy of a certain sultan and the viceroy said that sultan is pleased with your president and pleased with your country and wants to present a pair of match science to your country. And the consul said, well, you know, we have a law, you can't do that. So thanks a lot anyway, but you can't do that. And so the guy said, well, that's too bad for two reasons. One is there'll be no further relations between our countries and the other is not so important really, generally speaking, but quite important to me, I will be beheaded. So the consul says, give me another crack at this. So he writes a note to Jefferson. It goes a little boat across the Atlantic and Jefferson reads it, okay, take the stuff. And I think they were sent over here. But that's the moral is, the lesson is, you know, the receipt of a gift and the way you receive a gift is just as important, if not more important than the giving of a gift. That's, it goes all the way back to the days when tribes would not knowing each other too well would leave some food outside the camp or the other one say, look at this, if you take it, that means we might be friends, you know what I'm saying? Go after one another. So there are a lot of those niceties like that in the protocol. I, when people said, what is protocol? I came up with some kind of a description that it is really the practice or the art of establishing the context in which conversations and relationships between heads of state or their ministers can occur with a minimum of difficulty of embarrassment. And so because of that, many rules were set up to make it work that way. For example, before the Treaty of Vienna, if the French ambassador and the German ambassador both wanted to be admitted to see the Queen of England or something like that, they would be fighting in the doorway to do it. And people actually got wounded and maybe a couple of were knocked off to get their entourage inside before the other one did. I mean, that obviously had to be fixed. So they, that's when they, I think the Treaty of Vienna established the order of precedence that the country whose ambassadors, whose credentials have been accepted ranks the one who came after him all the way down. And that is why, of course, here in Washington, instead of having a French and Dean of the Corps, you had the Nicaraguan Dean of the Corps, Guillermo Civilius Acasa, because he'd been there longer than anybody else. And he was one of, I think, Samosa's brother-in-law or something like that. And a fun guy, and I really liked him and, of course, his crowd was knocked off later on in Nicaragua, but he's a good man, pompous, but funny and pleasant and I liked him a lot. The other fellows that I worked with, I think were Dobrinin, because Russia, he stayed there a long time and I had spent some time with him going up and down the elevator during the Cuban Missile Crisis when he was presenting his government's case to Bob Kennedy in the Justice Department. And eventually he got braced in the White House with those photographs and that took care of that. And that moment of when the quarantine was laid down, that was a tough moment. I'm taking back again to Kennedy presidency, but all of us were a little nervous about what the Russians would do when they came up to the line. They turned around and went home and they said, Khrushchev blinked. It's true. And what we didn't know was we'd agreed secretly, really, to take our stuff out of Turkey in response to that, which was okay. There's a lot of foreign policy is better not published anyway when it's happening so that it doesn't get interrupted. But Johnson, one time we were getting ready to come downstairs, you know, the great winding stairs in the White House to a reception, maybe a dinner for a king or something. And they played Hale to the Chief. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. Of course, I was the Chief of Protocopsy, so I turned to the President and said, Mr. President, our song, he looked at me like, are you kidding? So you didn't, light banter wasn't always the way to get along. There's something desperately I'm trying to remember to tell you again, think what it is. Let me see what I got here. How brief was he on matters when you took somebody and visited with him? Pretty well, because you see the way it would work when the department and the White House together decide that they'll accept the visit from a certain sovereign, the whole team at the department, the regional assistant secretary, the desk officer of the country, they put together briefing papers. And I had the impression the President read those quite thoroughly. And his questions were to the point to these fellows. And some of them were so overawed and his President couldn't talk at all. And of course, that sort of hampered the exchange. This one fellow, I think he was the head of Lesotho. He was tongue-tied. And the President kept leaning forward like a dentist looking down his throat just hoping something would come up, you know? And the guy couldn't talk at all. And he was a large man, about 400 pounds, something like that. And I remember saying, to sort of break it all up, I said, well, President, all I can tell you is that, Chief, what was his name? Can't remember. It was very happy to have his visit here. He's had some very good visits with the State Department representatives and the Commerce Department. And the guy looked at me and just nodded like that because the visitor, he couldn't talk. He was like, oh, oh. And so the President's, well, I'm glad to hear that. You're a good fellow and I hope you enjoy your stay. And he never had said a word. Unlike Hailey Salasse, he never stopped talking. He, the minute he got into the President's office, he let fly. And he went on, I think something like an hour had been set aside for the visit. And Hailey Salasse took it up entirely. And so the President, after he finished, said, well, very interesting. Amber, I'm sure glad to see you. Have a good stay. Never responded because he'd never had a moment to do it. I think he was kind of glad Hailey went away. We had, but most of the visits were much more productive than either one of those two where there were real exchanges. We had something like 70 state and official visits while we were there. And the President had helped in another way, and so did Mrs. Johnson. One of the things that I thought would be useful is for the diplomatic corps to feel that they had contact with the President, even though they really don't. After they present their papers, that's maybe the last time they see the man, or maybe at a reception or something really big, or if their king comes, as like say, Indira Gandhi came. Then, of course, the Ambassador gets to see the President in her presence. I'll get back to that Gandhi visit in a second. But what I was trying to do was to bring the corps into a situation where they felt they had been with the President. So Jack Valenny and I had the Valenny-Symington lunches which were in the White House. We would invite about maybe up to eight compatible ambassadors, i.e., you don't put Israel and Saudi Arabia in the same room. And we would invite them to lunch. And then over coffee, the President would come storming in. What's going on here? And shake hands all around, you know. Let me tell you what I had to do with the Congress today. Let me, and he would sort of gripe about the Congress. And these fellows would be absolutely thrilled to have this going on, you know. They've had a good lunch. The President of the United States been with them. They can cable their Minister back home. I've just spent lunch with the President and it gives them a real feeling, you know, of contact and of a secure relationship. When these, at the time that they were presented, because there's so many of them, we had to usually have two or three be presented successively and then take them all into a waiting room for the President to talk to. And, of course, that was awkward for most of them because they didn't want to take up, you're not supposed to take up a substantive subject anyway on your presentation of credential, but so that's how you get away with doing it that way. But the President would come in and say, if all is anything going on, I should know about, you know, and they'd say, well, Mr. President, now we're very glad to be with you. I remember the President of Bulgaria, I mean the Ambassador of Bulgaria who accompanied, I think his Prime Minister made an observation that strawberries were the principle product of Bulgaria or something. I may have this a little mixed up, but then the President said, that's very interesting, strawberries. Well, about a month later, I encountered this Ambassador at a reception, he said, I have the most terrible thing to tell you. What could it be? I said, I meant to say blueberries. I said, well, not to worry. Now, I gotta tell you about Mrs. Gandhi. When she came here, the way a state visit works, mind you, a state visit is a visit by a head of state as head of state. An official visit, which contains many of the same details, is a head of government coming who may or may not be head of state. Usually, if it's the sovereign, it's called a state visit. For example, I think Mrs. Gandhi was the Prime Minister, and I think they had a President too, like France. So she may not have been considered the head of state. If I could be faulted on this, I accept responsibility. But anyway, she was treated with a state visit. And those two forms of visits have the same contours. It's a three-day visit. It's an arrival, the White House lawn, you know. We used to do other, there used to be other ways of getting the sovereign to see the people like driving through the streets, but so many, so few showed up that it was a little embarrassing, the Saudi Arabia guy, he didn't have anybody to look at, and the President was glowering at me because we were going through all these empty Washington streets. So after that, the idea was to bring in the federal workers, a couple of thousand dependable people who could cheer and laugh and bunch them up in the White House grounds there on the south lawn, and then be prepared to receive the head of state and the President who would then address them. And so that's the first thing you do. Then there's a lunch, I think, at the State Department, and that night is the state dinner. And the next day is a reception at the Embassy of the Visitor where the President comes to the reception and the Vice President accompanies him and the President returns to the White House and the Vice President stays as the guest of the Visitor. And then the third day, there's other visits to the Foreign Relations Committee and things like that in between and then they go home on the third day. So when the President went to the Embassy of India on the second day to the reception prior to the dinner they would have for the Vice President, he stayed and stayed and stayed. And finally, I looked at my watch and it's the President's time now. We should take our leave and we'll go return to the White House and Mr. Humphrey will remain. And he turned to Mrs. Gandhi and said, do I have to go? She said, of course not, Mr. President. We'd be thrilled to have you stay for dinner. So what happened at the Court of Poor Humphrey, he would stand all the way to the bottom of the table and you'd already see him. And then the next day the press really leaned on me. That was a breach of protocol. The President was supposed to go. And I said, no, I think not. I think you've got that wrong. If the visitor, the visiting sovereign, is a woman and invites the President for dinner and the President accepts, that's protocol that got around it that way. But that was quite an experience. I got ready to run for Congress in 1968, which was in the end of my second year, I guess, as protocol. 1967, Christmas was the visit of Levy-Eschkahl to the ranch. Parenthetically, having your visitor come to your home spot is not only even more of a gesture of affinity and friendship and acceptance, but it's a more comfortable thing for someone like President Johnson. And I think when he did that, he didn't do it a whole lot, because he couldn't, but it made it quite a fine impression. I mean, when Levy-Eschkahl came at that visit, he brought with him, you know, with some of his military and a bunch of people. And I sang some folk songs for them. I remember Lucy's baby was very small and sat on the President's lap and we had quite a time. And then I took the occasion to tell the President, later on, I thought I was gonna run for Congress the following year. This was Christmas time, 67. He said, oh, I knew you're gonna be a preacher, a teacher, a congressman or some fool thing. He said, if now, I'll campaign four-year again, you whichever you think will help you the most. That was lovely. And he, of course, was feeling himself, December 67. I think what he was going through his mind, getting ready for what he would say, and in 1968, I forget the date that he went on television, but that was the same night. Oh, he asked me, this is important. Oh, when I told him I was gonna run for Congress, he'd find, he said, do me a favor, do not announce until the 1st of April. Next, I said, of course, Mr. President. And that was a little awkward because of that three or four candidates in there and they were all howling up and down. And I was saying, well, it's interesting, but I don't think. Well, guess what? I think it was March 31st and I'm having a little dinner with some friends in the Blair House, a farewell dinner thing, and someone calls us to the TV there as a president announcing his decision not to be a candidate for reelection. And my mind rolled back to that moment in December and I realized that in my judgment, he was turning over in his mind what he might do, but he didn't want members of his official family signaling in one way or the other what his plan in other words, leaving the ship, you know, the ship's going down, getting out of here. And so I'm quite sure that that's why he asked me to wait until April 1st and that date must have been in his mind. Why would he say it otherwise? I've never had that confirmed by anybody else, but maybe some of the other folks you talk to and find out what they think, that MacPherson and others. But anyway, that was the thing and I felt, of course, I went home the next day and announced, but needless to say, my announcement was somewhat dwarfed by this. So hardly anybody noticed that I was going to run for Congress, but that's what we did. And he wrote a wonderful letter. I should have brought it to this, but to me, thanking and thanking Sylvia for her stuff. Because what Sylvia did, Mrs. Johnson has a very quick study on people and on ideas and was so supportive of her husband. What Sylvia did with Mrs. Johnson's agreement and participation was to bring over the wives of compatible ambassadors for tea in groups of half a dozen or so. But she would brief Mrs. Johnson single-page, one-pagers on each of the wives. So these ladies would come in and be quite impressed to go up to family quarters, sit and tea is served and Mrs. Johnson would turn to the wife of the ambassador of Madam Malagasy or something. Mrs. Anabuba, what interests me most about your career is that you were the golf champion of your capital city. Mrs. Johnson, how in the world did you know that? Oh, everybody knows that. So it really made quite an impression. And those, I really think that the, I don't know of a time when the diplomatic corps felt more comfortable, even though the Vietnam War was on top of all of us with our president then in those days. And I think that was fun to kind of make those arrangements. The other thing I tried to do was to make a call on every single ambassador and just say, without an agenda, is there anything you need or anything I can help with? And boy, you've got to know a lot of these fellows that way. I only got to 70 because I couldn't work them all in. At that time, there were 117 countries. Today, forget it, there's about 100, how many, 150 or something, can't keep up with them. And of course, when the Soviet Union broke up, bingo, you had about six more, I forgot to say. So the job of protocol is getting taller, harder and harder. I was lucky because I had such wonderful staff. Felling him Chet Carter, he was an African-American. Boy, he was good, he was a deputy. He'd been a Peace Corps director in some countries. And I inherited him from Andrew Biddle-Dook and others. Of course, Lloyd was a great friend of the president and it came on trips even though he was no longer she because the president adored Lloyd and they were great, they were very close. I think Lloyd ran for lieutenant governor of California. Will you be talking to Lloyd? You must be. Yeah, sure. And I think he decided to run.