 What Harry Potter readings then there have been four in total so including this one. Oh Okay, so I didn't know you'd done spaces. So how do you how do you like the experience? Yeah, I enjoy it. I much prefer it to say I mean, I'm not I'm not a serial vlogger like you are but and I've already tried it But I much prefer it all of those things Yeah, because you can you can maintain some more anonymity. Yeah, and there's less to worry about because I know with doing live streaming There are just so many Cognitive demands that that it's harder to have room in your head left for thinking but with a space you can actually concentrate on your ideas and Whatever you want to say without having to worry about a lot of technical issues. Yeah, I agree with you there I mean So this is a recorded space. Is that okay with you? Would you like to start one again? Because some people they object of that they're not okay with that being recorded space Do you know what I wanted to ask you? you had Mega vana on your on your podcast right on your life Yes, so what happened then? I mean, you're not friends anymore in contact. I thought it's quite interesting how she just kind of Doesn't even talk about that anymore and I have a feeling that she's fallen out with Anna Kachian as well I don't know if you've heard of Anna Kachian Anna Kachian and Dasha was with them on podcast called Red Scare. Oh Okay, I've heard of the podcast Red Scare. I mean that's famous. Yeah, so I never had any friendship with What's the name me go mega yeah mega let's just call it back. Well, actually the correct pronunciation of her Four name and surname is um, big heart verma, but I think the sort of anger sighs pronunciation is just mega vana So mega should be okay. Okay, great. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I never had any friendship with her It was just I requested her to come on the show and she came on the show and that was it And I'm so slack. I can't even find the show that that she was on I mean Search it can you search for it on your blog with her name? Yeah, I Have I have I just can't find it. So Yeah Yeah, yeah, what happened though is immediately after I interviewed her she just disappeared There was like some some criticism of her and she just like disappeared for weeks, but I never tried to stay in touch I haven't had anything but the one off He was like come on my show she came on my show and I'm unaware of any other interaction I've had with her well I think that happens to women on your show What do you think that you have the interactions that you have women are generally kind of more one-off? Yeah I have some regulates but most things just one off I'd notice like a lot of like human connection stuff is like a foreign language to me because I didn't grow up You know connected to my parents like I kind of grew up in foster care where I had the Help beating out of me and so normal normal facets of human connection and communication are like a foreign language to me So I know people often like connecting, you know in ways that I'm just like envious off So I have to admit my best guess on my show pretty much one off unless we happen to share like a similar sense of humor Like I think what to the extent that we you and I have a connection is because we have a similar sense of humor Right I'm glad to hear that and I'm glad that you noticed it as well But what about what about do they don't mean to share a sense of humor there because do it is not funny No, no, there's no sense of humor there, but there's a there's a connection which I can't I Can't articulate but there is a connection there So most people who are regulars on my show we share a similar what I would understand as a perverse sense of humor But do it doesn't have a sense of humor Right, which is you know, it's not his fault That's just not a language that he speaks just like normal human connection I mean, I don't I don't think he lacks of lacks a sense of humor I mean, he's kind of passive, but I do think he can understand humor, right? If you are making a joke I think to do it does get it. It's not like a complete, you know case of autism going on. What do you think? You won't crack yourself, but I don't think it doesn't seem to bring him any joy, right? And so it's like it's like you cook a meal for someone and it's it makes absolutely no difference to them You know whether you cook a meal for them or you give them a glass of water So once you have that experience, you just don't feel any incentive to cook any more meals for them And so if you if you crack jokes or you know make fun for people you know, some people really appreciate it and then other people don't so I'm trying to get better in my old age at Recognizing which people you know appreciate my humor and which people don't because if people don't appreciate it Then I should just not do it because it's it's not really adding anything to their life Right, yeah Z do you want to speak? Do you want to ask Luke any questions? I mean I would be interested to know if you've heard of Luke 44 or followed any of his content Okay, please put your thumbs down How was your Sabbath yesterday? Oh, it's nice. It's uh, you know, it's nice to be with an in-group where you don't have to explain stuff And you can just you know say horrible things that you can't say in the polite world So like I really enjoyed horrible things like uh, can you can you bash the gates? That's the main thing I still remember I just reading out some article in an Australian newspaper about how This guy was going around kidding gay or something and most people would be devastated But you were just reading out in such a humorous tone that Like that's a horrible thing to do. Yeah And like I disavow whatever I did, but like I like to have a space where I can be horrible I mean Your commentary was really good. Yes, I disavow. Okay disavow. I'm really opposed. It's a terrible thing But I mean, there are like all sorts of things that most people find really sad. I just find hilarious, right? So I have to be really careful about that Like Like I know various women who've like told me anecdotes how they just repeatedly get raped You know, they're out there dating and and they're getting to bed naked with some dude And they're like sharp that he ends up raping them and like this happens to to the woman again and again and again And it's so very Okay, it's um, sorry It's yeah, yeah, it's just like it's so dark But it's also if you put yourself in that position like it's also very darkly This is terrible, but it's very darkly funny when people You know repeatedly put themselves in a position to be taken advantage of or you know, it's not just you know sexually financially or you know the human condition is just hilarious like Um, the the gays in Australia who got you know pushed over the cliff They weren't sitting in the park reading Shakespeare like they were in the park having random sex with strangers And then you know, other people came along and were not thrilled about it. So You know, what do you think is going to happen if you're hogging up, you know with complete randos, you know over a cliff You know people in regular society are not always like thrilled about that. Yeah Um, no, I get where you're coming from. I found that episode of your um Your kind of live stream thingy were really funny, but I'm not watching your live stream so much anymore If I could admit that here Luke Oh, sure. I mean they're not for everyone They're probably not a good use of your time like I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend them to anyone for whom they're not You know meeting the occasional need I mean, I used to I used to listen to them quite a bit and I've gotten quite a few Screen recordings of you that I've uploaded onto my youtube channel anything that I sort of benefited from were found really funny on your um on your live stream Yeah, well like a little bit of 40 can go a long way Yeah, like five minutes here and five minutes there, you know, it's probably yeah more than enough You are eternally in my brain now, uh, and I don't have to listen to you again Yeah, I mean you probably you know, you've had enough it's it's good like I wouldn't I wouldn't expect anyone to watch the show on a regular basis It's it's like my according to youtube my audience is 100 male Well people do tell me that I'm male-brained like whenever they hear my voice on a space They're like, what the hell we thought you were a man And I'm like, hello, like okay. Yeah gazelles can't be male, but generally speaking you associate gazelles with females So I just thought why don't you think of that? And so obviously like no, but you tweet like a man You do. I mean you have a male sense of humor, right? Yeah And you know, I've got you know, I've got a feminine side, you know, I love to talk about emotions and stuff like that And you look to Yeah, I I love gossip and I love relationships and a lot of psychology and emotions and feelings and love wounds and love maps and You know, eroticize this and yeah, so I mean people are complicated Do you know who's taken um more who's giving you sort of competition in my life? Tell me I mean even guess I retweet this person a lot I don't know if you've been on my twitter feed for a while now, but like I retweet this person a lot these days And He's he's a comedian. He's very funny Okay, I'm scrolling and scrolling in terms of competition. Yeah, so somebody does live stream said that he's your competitor now in my life Oh my god, I'm Benjamin man. I'm like he's like he's done movies and tv. I mean he has an enormous audience I mean, is it not very funny? He is very funny, but he's obviously He's had a bit of a change in his life now, right that he's living on a farm He's changed his religion very seriously, right? Well, I would say you could get get into it again I don't know if you were a fan in the first place actually, but He's it's a new chapter of his life. He's not the same woman anymore What's what's going on with him because it seemed like last time I paid attention to him was like four years ago And it seemed like he was self-destructing. So what's going on within this is I think he's building back from there I mean he self Destructed in a way that nobody else did most people who self-destruct in that scene They kind of just uh go towards alcohol or something or they come back and do something really outrageous, but he um He's rejected politics completely now. Like he doesn't believe in the left right divide, blah, blah, blah So once you liberate yourself from that then you can actually build yourself Uh in a different way so you can transcend politics and turn to religion in a different way for most people And how how sane does he seem to you? I think he's very sane. It's like For example, people probably think you are insane or you I've So you've told me and this is public by the way, but I'm not saying this in a kind of derogatory manner But you know, you think that you have narcissistic personality disorder And I keep telling you no, you don't you don't even have it. I've said to you this I said this to you Um by a dm quite a few times, but I just don't think you have it because I think you're quite normal in my head Uh, I don't know. I enjoy having a conversation with you. Um As as you said that we get each other sense of humor. This isn't actually the first time we're speaking to each other. So It is yeah, and yeah, it feels like I didn't think about that. Yeah, like we've known each other for years And um, I think the same with Owen. I think it's just I know people are gonna think oh This is such a cough out, but I would say society is deranged that they just don't get things anymore You speak to somebody you crack a joke you use some sort of idiomatic expression something of that nature Like people's capacity for language is just kind of not there anymore. I don't know if you sense that Yeah, um But I mean, Owen Benjamin is brilliant. Like I would say the guy's like 30 IQ points on me I mean, he's brilliant now. I think he's nuts on a lot of things Or at least I did four years ago when I listened to it, but you can be brilliant and nuts But he is very intelligent like he's like genius level IQ And he's such a good piano player And kind of merges that in with his comedy, which is just amazing But I disagree with it. He's that high IQ and he's admitted that in a space as well in a in one of his live streams as well But he I mean, I don't know what your IQ is by the way Luke It's in the 120. So I would assume that you and I are approximately the same. He's about 140 something. So Yeah, I mean I'm like 120 pretty good Yeah And how about you? Um, I've not had it tested. So I mean, it's been ages. It's been almost I'd say 15 years since I've had it tested And what was it then? It was it was 157 then, but I don't think I'm as clever anymore I think it's good. I think it's gonna be like 70 or something But I wouldn't be surprised if you were like if I found out that you were like 30 IQ points above me It wouldn't be surprising to me. Hey, you can't backtrack now because you're like, oh, you're about the same as me You're about 120 I do I my guess is that you're about the same but if you were more I wouldn't be shocked So there are some people who I guess are about the same as me and I would be shocked if they were more But you have these these flashes Where I think wow, she's kind of operating in a different different galaxy from me Yeah, but you still understand that galaxy. I think which means that we're not really I can kind of see it Yeah, you know with a telescope, right And I think wow, I mean speaking of telescopes, um, oh and Benjamin now thinks the earth is 100 flat I mean, well, he doesn't agree with the globalists, which he defines as people who believe that the earth is a globe Okay, there's a different definition of globalism So I mean hilarious. Yeah, I mean It's so convincing like I don't Sorry, do you think he's like Do you think he's dangerous for your Well-being or you just view him as entertainment? No, I don't I don't view him as entertainment Because I do take him seriously. I mean, he's very funny and I've got some screen recordings of him On my twitter feed and on my uploaded to my youtube account as well anything that I find funny of him But I do take him seriously at the same time. I think that his humor reveals something about human nature. That is true Yeah, I mean any humor that's worth anything reveals something about human nature. That's true I mean, I think that's the test for humor. Like it's not funny if it's not true Yeah, but um, people always revealing Different things and sometimes those revelations are in opposition to one another So for example, if you I didn't have to listen to that much george carlin But like generally speaking, he's an atheist. He's well, he's dead now, but he was an atheist and um So anything that he reveals about human nature, it's going to be in the direction of kind of Oh, look at them. They all are sheep For god and but oh and benjamin on the other hand. He's saying we're all sheep for secularism, right? We're all see the world sheep because they see them. Well, uh, we're all sheep for um the opposite of god And so Yeah, but I think they're both getting it the truth like we all have hero systems Yeah, so, you know my hero system is, you know Torah orthodox Judaism our benjamin's hero system I would assume is you know some form of christianity george carlin's hero system is atheism But they're all getting at the eternal truth that we all have different hero systems And we think of those who don't share our hero system as you know at best, you know loses and benighted True, but one hero system can reveal how the based humans are And the other huge human system, uh, humor system, sorry can reveal how um Yeah, the opposite humans are Right, but they're both correct. I mean, I'm incredibly base, you know, I'm incredibly horrible And I'm also incredibly, you know moral and upstanding, you know in different ways like I'm a very mixed bag Along with everyone else. I mean, there's nothing special in that, you know, humans are, you know, potentially horrible and potentially wonderful People are Mixture, right? Yeah I mean, would you feel comfortable um describing many of your own tendencies as horrible and many of your own tendencies as noble Well, right now, I think I'm very noble. I think most of my tendencies I believe was bad Right. I mean, you're incredibly gracious, you know to me as a guest Um, you're very polite and empathic about whether people are okay with being recorded or not So, I mean, I would see all those things as noble and you know, I'm sure you do positive things for people in your life And I'm also sure that you're, you know, total pain in the ass at times for people in your life Well, that's really nice of you to say though. Um, I really appreciate the compliments there and the fact that you've noticed that About me. Um, and also the pain in the ass thing as well. That's true So, what is sorry, what is the question now? Or is there a question? Oh, are you Like I you know, I have a lot of self-loathing But you know in my in my as I grown up, you know, I don't have as much loading for my self-loathing So it's it's pretty easy for me to accept that I've got a lot of horrible tendencies and a lot of noble tendencies My question for you was are you at ease with the reality of who you are in that you have both These tendencies, you know towards being horrible and towards being noble or you kind of ill at ease with some of that or all of that No, I'm at ease with it because um, I feel that um, if I if I didn't have both of these tendencies I wouldn't be able to understand Andrew Tate as I do I'm quite the joke there, but I think I am being serious But a lot of people they just don't understand Andrew Tate like I do But I just get him in a way that other people do and that's because of my own tendencies um So I'm at ease with who I am, but um, I mean any time I don't feel like I'm at ease I just I'm more into blaming society now than I was before It's ironic because people usually they start off blaming society and then they're like, oh, no, it's it's all our fault and you know, we've got to look, you know to ask inside and You know, it's it's the devil inside of me, but honestly like I do think there's something wrong with society Uh, for example, you asked me well, it's interesting that we understand each other We understand each other's sense of humor and and Yes, I I think that's because society's changed. They just don't get somebody like Luke Ford anymore. Even though he's a nice man he's funny he's charismatic um and That is society's fault I don't think there's anything Wrong with you and even your little uh label that you are you've got MPD I mean, I've been with people with narcissistic personality disorder. It is nothing like you Hmm Now you say you understand entertain. Most people that I know to the extent they think of entertain They just think he's horrible. So are there other dimensions to entertain aside from being horrible. I just find him moronic, um, you know moronic lowlife, uh, pimp, but You say you understand entertain So what is there about entertain beyond the very cheap and easy put downs that most people I know would have of him I think he's he's just a sort of very experimental person that Even his pimping out of women was to understand Uh, what women are like, but it's not it's there's a kind of more beyond the kind of, uh apparent kind of sadistic nature of it all there is a deeper uh, experimental interest in What does it what makes a human right? So he's saying that women are they they they would just follow anything Women are inherently like she if you do this if you do this if you do this Well, okay, most moral people won't do all of the things that that he's doing but He's got a point there right, so I don't know. I just think he's he's like It's hard to express because I've not had the opportunity because like it's all up in my head a little bit If you know what I mean, um, but I consider him a very Empirical person. I've got to see it to believe it right that sort of thing So even even the the kind of path to islam. So now he's converted And that's also been quite empirical as well. So he's been looking had a muslims behave um What is it like to to be a muslim? What is it like to live in say the ua or diva or whatever? um, and he's been watching and observing and Yeah, he's uploaded a picture of himself reading the Quran and the Quran is placed on his groin I've never seen that he's lying lying in bed, uh wearing his boxes. But the thing is actually, um, it's not even it's not even In the religion so all the sort of uh critics going mad about this I'm not I mean, obviously if you literally think about him putting the Quran on the dick that is a bit Weird but the point is he's just lying in bed reading So I've dated various women who are just fascinated with serial killers And it's not unusual for serial killers to receive all sorts of mail from women often sending alluring photos of themselves Uh, do you resonate with that you is there a significant part of you that is kind of fascinated with bad boys? No I'm not fascinated by bad boys. Also. I find Andrew Tate very handsome So that might be something to do with it. Like if he was just a minga like I don't know if they're minga You're from Australia, aren't you? Yeah, so we say minga here in the UK Maybe he was just minging sort of Ooh ever pinned and he's got nothing, uh physically appealing about him Uh, he doesn't have any kind of charm But then I would not have any interest in him whatsoever Like even if he was going around killing everybody is making huge loads of money. Um, I would not have any interest I would just think yuck. Have you ever Have you ever sent a letter to a serial killer? No Okay, I was just curious It's just kind it's kind of a weird part of the the male female I don't I don't think that's a serial killer, right? I I think of him. I see a light in him Again, as you are you asking what do you see in him the others don't I see a kind of, uh Innocent in him ironically like even after doing all of these things. I mean, he's not killing people, right? He's just engaged in this, uh sex work industry and he's a pimp, but you know, there's He's honest about it, right? So there is transparency there that you don't see with other people But again that transparency might be there because he's hiding something even worse, right? So Yeah Do you have any kind of fascination to the extent that you can say this publicly Do you have any kind of fascination with the sex industry? Um, what is the sex industry? Are you talking about, uh, porn? Are you talking about, um Well, Andrew Tate and I have something in common in that, you know, I wrote about the sex industry the porn industry for a decade or so Andrew Tate is, you know, accused at least of pimping women and so I was just curious if if the the darkness of Of the flesh industry is Um, is fascinating to you Um, it is a little bit fascinating to me, but then again, I've not, um I've not actually read your book I said that that is ironic as well that if I if I was Fascinated enough, I would go and read it. Uh, but then I have I haven't watched the kind of mini documentary on you and, uh, your past life and, um You sort of video your own your own production. Um, where you're kind of videoing random women in the park and things like that I found that interesting But, um, yeah, I don't know. I'm like for example, Eric Weinstein. Is it Weinstein or Weinstein? I believe the proper is Weinstein though. I don't often say the proper pronunciation Okay, well, I'll stick to Weinstein because I've heard Owen Benjamin called an Eric Weinstein We should be so, uh, Eric Weinstein got some interview with Riley Reid who is this famous, uh, pornographic actress and it's like I wasn't interested one bit to watch that I mean, maybe I would have been interested like 10 years ago when sex was more of a fascination to me Especially coming from a Muslim background But I I really didn't care for what you had to say because I watched some of those Eric Weinstein, um Podcasts, I think the podcast was called The Portal or something like that And I listened to his stuff with uh, Sam Harris and I was quite attentive to a few of those podcasts But you know when it came to Riley Reid again, like there is an irony there because I I would I mean, I would reply in the affirmative that I do have a bit of a fascination with those things But the irony is that it just isn't that big a fascination for me to sit there and watch these people with that great of an interest And what's your fascination with Harry Potter? Oh, there is no fascination actually. I really hate Harry Potter. JK. Well, I don't hate Harry Potter. That's not true Um, I'm not really a fan like a lot of people are JK ruling is an interesting character to me So I have uh, yeah, I'll accept you in a second ace. I'll just finish my point about um, JK Rowling Ace wants to speak Luke. So it'd be interesting what he has to say. Um, yes So yeah, JK Rowling. She is an interesting character to me because she is heading this kind of, um this kind of uh pro-turf Lobby, right? I don't know if you've noticed like but in the mainstream media kind of echo chamber She is the one who's the face of of the Turks and she's really like, oh, I hate you know trans toilets We're really worried about trans toilets and he's always tweeting these sorts of things but then JK Rowling she her crime fiction Pen name her student and is Robert Galbraith. So she's fucking uh, writing as a man herself. So there is a kind of weird thing going on here I feel that her I'll just finish that I feel that her fixation on the trans issue is disingenuous and there is a psycho analytic framework that can be employed here Like there is a level of projection going on which is unexplored to me at least Yeah, yeah, I just struck me that another thing we have in common Is that we think the most social political cultural commentary is really stupid and we kind of laugh at it Yeah, definitely. And I don't think we always trust the apparent I'm just gonna leave and come back because I can't hear ace if you guys just see I'm just coming Yeah How's it going ace? Hey, can you guys hear me? I can hear you and I'm sure curious. We'll be after you in a minute. So, uh, what's what's on your mind today, ace Well, uh, I'm just very surprised that this space is happening Look forward because I uh, there was one specific video where you had a bunch of people on that uh made an impact on me And so it's very cool to see you in here on twitter A lot of the people that have been through some of the right-wing circles usually don't do spaces So I just think it's pretty cool But um, I was curious with with your background how you kind of got your show into some of these right-wing circles Because I I don't know you too well again. I haven't seen too many of your videos But uh, you did seem to be one of the few people that that like got out of that kind of old right scene without any uh Sure, sure Yeah, I'm sorry to say I did not uh, I wasn't tuning in your show regularly But I thought you kind of had this this a niche where you were basically like the johnny karson of the all right If you don't mind me saying that I think that's pretty accurate Yeah, and so, um, I was just curious like what what what fascinated you about enough to Invite a lot of these these types of people on people that would go on to kind of blow up in the news people Like flintes and all these other personalities that were kind of cutting their teeth on things like your show So I was just curious what what attracted you to it I think as I understand it, um, I'm I'm a bachelor. I've never been married I don't have kids and I think you'll see with people who don't have children of their own That they they tend to chase excitement and so I've chased excitement into some pretty dark places But the one of the places I chased excitement was into the alt right It was it was just weird and exciting to talk to these people with you know, these socially disreputable You know supposedly the most evil people around like it's exciting to talk to You know supposedly really evil people whether they're in the the pornography industry or some kind of you know, ethnic or racial nationalism Um, yeah, I guess excitement is kind of the the common core to many of the topics that I talk about or You know invite people on so I think that's the the uniting factor. You know, I'm just another You know adrenaline junkie bachelor Interesting. Wow. Okay, because um, there's a lot of people kind of in the aftermath of uh, I mean, I guess we could say after 2017 That was um, kind of the post era But a lot of people have tried to make sense of it. Obviously, you know, you're effectively kind of um, I think I I think I was basically the gist of it was um You kind of came onto the scene as uh, rather than like a Rather than like a leader quote unquote leader figure. You were kind of interviewing a lot of oh, that's what it was There's a lot of people after After 2017 that have effectively tried to do your job, mr. Ford. They've uh, you know, I'm sure you're aware There's a lot of journalists that have uh, their own take on all of the the people you bring on your show But more recently I'd say in the last year There's been a lot of like genuine curiosity with a lot of online discourse And it kind of resembles your show in the sense of trying to create this Free speech space on the internet where we're trying to define all these different types of personalities And I was curious if you've noticed some of that uh on your on your timeline some of the uh Online journalism so to speak that uh that I think people like you were kind of the head of the curve on Yeah, I've noticed a bit but things are a lot more complicated once the alt-right started slaughtering people So when I was doing it the alt-right wasn't really slaughtering people and then there was an explosion of you know alt-right massacres and that makes the conversations more difficult and more challenging and more charged more scary more dangerous So I think the like the christ church massacres the mosques in christ church new zealand the massacre at the war mart in I think el paso texas The massacre at the supermarket in buffalo the two different attacks on synagogues one in pittsburgh one in san diego The these things um, and then in my own neighborhood on successive days orthodox Jews were shot You know walking out of synagogue. So these things have made You know talking to The alt-right more more difficult and dangerous Now would you say we're still in that climate? Yeah, I mean at least in the normie world like it used to be that the alt-right was primarily known as a bunch of Mary pranksters, but then starting with richard spencer's hail gate in the end of 2016 You know the alt-right to the extent that people know about it at all Sorry, I got interrupted but but but now the you know the alt-right is regarded as murderous And so that makes conversations more difficult Yeah, but the early members of the alt-right they used to sleep with trannies. If you remember thurnamits.com his old blog post where He um he's sort of uh admitting to well not even admitting he's recommending Sleeping with a tranny and how to do it. Uh, so that is just absolutely bizarre I don't know for me the the origin of the alt-right it lies with individuals like sernovich Like obviously that's probably not true But in my head my mental association is like sernovich and these sorts of people and then richard spencer comes in afterwards to me Yeah, so most people are far more upset by massacres than sleeping with trannies So I think the whole mass slaughter of people really put a damper on conversations with the alt-right Would you would you say that was a fair distinction between before hail gate? It really was like a big tent movement. Some people minimize that and say that wasn't the real alt-right But would you say that's that's genuine that you had a bunch of kind of like libertarian slash anti-war people that were not super political, but you could accurately describe them as alt-right Yeah, I mean it was more big tan there was more aim office And you had a lot of you know respectable people who were happy to associate with the alt-right I mean steve bannon called the bright part website alt-right So after hail gate though nobody with anything to lose could associate with the alt-right because richard spencer deliberately insisted essentially that to be alt-right is to be a nazi and Therefore anyone with you know any kind of professional educational social communal standing could not have anything to do with the alt-right And so it just got overtaken them by anti-social losers who had an unfortunate habit of murdering people and constantly falling out with each other And it just became you know crafter Now, um, do you see it's very funny like People like spencer have obviously had a very interesting arc in recent uh in recent months, but uh people that sort of uh Write about these people now, maybe not lefty journalist types, but uh some of these more Like online twitter people that try to create like a genealogy of all the you know There's some people who say that there's a difference between Somebody who like I think you mentioned the uh the tech or not texas Uh, this this hispanic person that identified with these far-right symbols even though he was non-white himself Some people try to look at that and rather than uh do the usual hip piece They'll say things like well It's it's complicated because people on the right are attracted to different things And so we would not call this person like a white supremacist We would just say you know, this is like a mental illness case or this is uh You know someone who got wrapped up in online stuff, etc Do you see like there is kind of now or maybe you would disagree with this now It seems like there's not a lot of pressure from like right wing watch for example to uh put out consistent hip pieces on The latest young up and coming far-right personality And it does seem like there is some uh curiosity into you know, what is the psychology behind a lot of these people Yeah, I think the outright is pretty much dead. Uh, george holly is a political science professor He read two books on the alt-right and after he gave a speech at uc-berkeley in something like may of 2018 or 2019 he had no more speeches booked nobody else was was curious about the alt-right now There are gradations to the alt-right like their gradations to uh sex workers and strippers and pornographers So if you go to a strip club, you'll find that the girls are often quite catty You know about you know other girls that like one girl might spread more show more reveal more than the other girls So the regular girls think she's a slut Um, and I'm sure if you go to a sewer there are various you know forms of sewage in a sewer And you know some are you know probably more deadly than others and then in the pornography industry You know certain people look down on other pornographers and not real pornographers or they're you know, they're you know false to the medium or whatever So there are always gradations in the human condition, but for polyp all impolite society They have no interest in you know, social interactions with sex workers in general Like nobody wants to bring a hawker home to meet his mother and people in polite society understandably have no interest Except a prurian interest in uh alt-right personalities anymore while prior to trump's election There was something often, you know, funny or entertaining or compelling But once the alt-right got associated with slaughtering people, uh, it seems to be funny Now I know that um someone like spencer who advocates for the banning of 4chan because it creates uh the situation You're talking about where it basically people get radicalized online and then it looks like violence is their only uh thing to do afterwards Um, and he's been very critical of this arc I think this has made him very pessimistic of a lot of anonymity on twitter the internet in general Is the idea that you don't really have authentic conversations you allow all the trolls yet you mentioned earlier the pranksters Do you think even somebody who uh Kind of makes the whole movement look bad or someone who does something like a shooting Would we still label them as alt-rights? Even if uh a lot of people would like to distance themselves from like that specific activity Well for right now I mean the alt-right is just considered, you know, a murderous bunch of nazis and it cannot be You know reclaimed in you know the next 10 years. I mean it is it is dead and dusted Uh now richard spencer's you know interesting because when the trolls were on his side He was all on board with anonymous trolling But when the trolls turned against him he turned against the troll so richa spencer was all for free speech free expression You know anonymous trolling when he felt like he was leading them when he was the leader when he was showing the way when they When he felt like they were doing what he wanted But then when they went against him then he suddenly became much more You know hostile towards free speech free expression and trolling So I mean we're all profoundly influenced by whatever's in our own personal interest and usually the more you have to lose The more you probably want to restrict speech Now after The serious strike and I think that was early 2017 You had a lot of people in the alt-right disavow trump and say this isn't what we signed up for We thought that there was going to be a paradigm shift and it's looks like trump is a regular republican and so you know people jump ship do you think The fact that someone like spencer was uh used to be supportive of anonymity and now he's not Is that like a misunderstanding of like of what the trump movement was supposed to be Which was people thinking outside the box people actually looking for alternative perspectives on politics But then it became literally like the g.o.p. Plus trump, you know, baby boomers plus trump in the sense of there really is no Vision outside of trump. It's kind of this cult of personality and maybe maybe what people were expecting after 2016 was people like Uh, Andrew anglin or all these other characters were not going to define the movement It was going to be these smart kind of uh aristocratic type figures But but that didn't really happen all we got was uh, you know people that were maga republicans And then some like you said some of these prankster types Uh, do you see that as kind of one of the flaws of the alt-right is that the movement would like to see itself as something That was very aristocratic, but it was really mostly just a lot of trolling Well, would that be accurate to say maybe like uh prior to 2016 the alt-right was primarily a spoken word movement And so it was much higher IQ than after 2016 2017 it became primarily a podcasting and live streaming movement Which was much more accessible to people with lower intelligence So the intelligence level of the alt-right dramatically dropped, but I think most people adopt or discard ideologies And religions and and friends and spouses and communities, you know based on whether it's still serving them So, you know, some guys fall in love with you know, a woman and then after they get married Like the intensity of the sex dies and they find her a drag and they no longer You know feel like she's meeting his needs and so he dumps her or a woman falls for a man And she thinks he'll keep her safe and protected and she'll be provided for but then she finds out You know, he's a scam artist and you know unreliable and so she you know runs away So so too with like a church, you know or a synagogue or a political movement Like people adopt these things when they feel like it's serving them and then they run away when it's no longer serving them So when the alt-right was something that was funny and edgy and provided, you know entertainment and Value and it seemed aesthetically cool, you know, a lot of people were into it But as soon as it became associated with with mass murder then you know people who have any sense You know just flee from it and then so too with trump when when embracing trump, you know It meant something positive in your social world You know, you're incentivized to embrace trump when embracing trump means that you're a moron According to the people that you most want to be close to then you're going to be incentivized to drop trump So I think that the difference between 2016 2020 election was there was a 2% swing against trump in the suburbs about 2018 and 2020 So a lot of like people who are middle middle of the road politically about, you know, 2% of the suburban electorate You know turned against trump. So I mean people will adopt a church or religion Gurus a yoga studio fashion, you know books podcast, you know, based on how it makes them feel and how it serves them And what serves you and makes you feel special, you know one day, you know The next day it just doesn't do it for you anymore Like, you know, someone might find me funny and insightful and entertaining one day And then the next day they realize that, you know, oh, and benjamins, you know far funnier and more insightful And so, you know, you move on and so people Very funny of you But it's true like We're gonna have to switch back to live streams But but did you agree with the basic idea we're all looking for stuff that meets our needs and you know fashion or religion or Yeah, we move in and out of these things depending on whether they're meeting our needs or not Yeah, I think it's funny a lot of people mentioned the the canadian influence On the the far right, you know, you got people like gab mckinnis and lauren southern and blaze tv types You know, it's funny how much of the movement was uh was made up of people not technically american But the way that it fizzled out seemed very american this kind of like democracy gone bad experiments where the The supporters like you said they're eating their own they're kind of going after themselves rather than the people They disagree with politically and but I don't know I I don't know If it could have ended any other way because it does seem like you said it was kind of like a recipe for disaster I don't I don't know if a lot of people just understood how to manage an online movement because it is such a I mean in america dissident movements don't succeed period. You know, I don't know a lot I mean unless we were I think you're right on the left Yeah, I think you're right. What what doing the alt right is what doing every other previous white nationalist movement And that is the very low quality of the people who are subscribing to the movement in the final analysis The people who pro alt right were a bunch of socially marginalized losers, you know high school dropouts, you know, mathematics Um, you know freak stevians, you know anti social types that couldn't you know maintain relationships You know felons, you know criminally inclined, you know, just a lot of bad moronic people And I remember that this live stream that I did that attracted the biggest audience Was what's locally known as the saturday night jim goad massacre and that's where our next went as You know bank, alaskan jim goad and the the irony bros and and many people just tremendously entertaining But it was such a headache to deal with the repercussions of that It it ended my friendship with jim goad and I never again wanted to do a screen like that because it attracted a lot of Anti-social types So I've become like hyper focused on kind of narrow casting ever since then because I saw how easy it was To just bring in a rush of you know, anti-social people into my life Through through a live stream and I didn't want that so I like I instituted a code of conduct how people should behave Um, I 95 percent of people who want to come on my show I went let them on my show because you know, they're anti-social and self-destructive and it just brings a lot of havoc in its midst So I think with the alt right and any political social cultural Movement live stream podcast you have to be really careful what type of people you attract because you start bringing in losers And it'll just blow everything up Now to be fair, I from what I understand there was a lot of difficulty getting jim goad's friend to join the stream and that was Why wait there was a lot of moments like that Yeah, that was a very uh, very memorable moment among others, but uh But yeah, that was the stream I was referencing earlier I did not know exactly what it was called But I remember it being very memorable and I did not realize it was the same one because uh Yeah, that was a lot of a lot of different worlds colliding onto one stream Which is very rare especially today a lot of those people are banned from mainstream platforms So you really had access to a pivotal moments a rare moments in the internet history, but um gazelle you can uh take the floor Yeah, ace. I know you could talk about richard spencer for another 48 hours, but um, excuse me, excuse me Very very hard not to do I apologize. I just point the listeners and the host to this photo of Alex Soros, but you need to zoom into Alex Soros's feet. I want you to do that. Um, I don't know if I Seriously guys, I want you to do that now. Mr. Ford. Please do that Alex Soros's feet and just look at his left You're you're you're not you're not impressed by the the lack of grooming No, I understand this is uh it is controversial In about 10 minutes in about 10 minutes here, I'm very tempted to just leave the phone on and let gazelle do the gazelle show Where do you need to go? I need to go with my parents somewhere, but I I will be back I'd imagine gazelle could uh, you know fill a concert hall of words in my absence But um, yeah, that's just something I'm thinking out loud here Alex Soros's feet Uh for 48 hours, you could do that. Spencer's you would do I I would much rather uh, you would rather stare at Richard Spencer's feet, right? No, no, no, that's not I wasn't trying to imply something like that, but um I uh, I was I guess final final thing I'll say is that I'm about to pop off But uh, mr. Ford, I was curious what your what your thoughts are on on his current art right now Besides what you've said earlier this uh, this very uh romantic art. I think he's going on right now Yeah, so I'm always looking for the the through line And what seems to be the through line with every single thing that Richard Spencer says and does is pay maximum amount of attention to me So wherever he goes, I mean, I think I recognize that because I recognize it in myself Like I've often had the impulse and social interactions to how can I maximize the attention given to me right now? And that seems to be the animating force behind whatever Richard does Now tell me if I'm being a little too charitable here, but you know for for myself personally I've become a lot less political gazelle has taken me to the woodshed with this kind of rhetoric And uh, I've been trying to liberate myself fully from left right type talk And I know that that's a little that's a little uh, hard to do But I was curious because you know a lot of the problems with the alt-right is like you said There were a lot of unexceptional people that were trying to cling to like these philosophies and Literary styles that were outside their their IQ level frankly But somebody who is college educated wants to go beyond politics kind of like what the left does with wokism Wouldn't the natural thing to do after 2017 after the alt-right dissolves is to Kind of do this artsy thing where you're not strictly talking about politics or talking about the news But uh doing some type of project that is romantic in nature kind of uh, I mean not like writing books But like doing like public theater doing performance art something to that effect Which has all of these philosophical underpinnings Wouldn't that be the more practical way to apply something like the alt-rights which was a political movement But after seeing it fail What aren't you just supposed to go into the art world after that since uh, the politics just didn't seem to Shape out Well, yeah, I mean Richard doesn't want to pay the price for saying what he really thinks So he is moving on to an abstract artsy Uh thing of creating a new religion. I mean he still basically has the same impulses as he did three five ten Years ago, but he doesn't want to pay that price. So he's yeah, he's going the the artsy religion spiritual revival route And if but if it became socially acceptable to talk about what he really wants to talk about he'll he'll do that But you know, he's going to adjust himself to the to the situation whereby he can still get the maximum of attention But without the headaches that came with his previous incarnation And and maybe the last thing I'll say before I put the phone down Maybe American politics in the near future is going to resemble something that's a little less You guys were talking about the red scare podcast earlier. Honestly, I know it's controversial to say I do kind of see something like that this kind of cynical anti-political approach to be the the future of American politics Kind of less dc heavy and more uh more cbgb's More uh more of a any warholster. You have mischaracterized that as red scare when it's actually audience. I would say Mmm, would you say? Yeah, I think for deanism fordism is the way forward for American politics. I truly believe this I I would be open to that, you know and and mr. Ford. You're someone that has not a dc You know this uh this kind of uppity yuppie Patrick Bateman background, you know Well, maybe Patrick Bateman in other ways, but you don't really have this wall street disposition You have something that is outside of politics and then you kind of got into politics to me That's the ultimate way to do it is to come out of another industry and go into politics Not to be groomed for power. That's like Sean Hannity archetype Um, a lot of people tell me stuff things like oh, well, that's you know, that's not professional That's not how you do american politics But I don't know it just seems to follow through with people like trump people who become very sensational in the media I think people like that artsy approach But all the examples we have recently are these failures, you know these these alcoholics among other things You know all these degenerate types Um, so I think it's just a matter of trying to uh revive the roman empire without the caligula arc I don't know if it's possible. Maybe futile Well, I mean, I think higher IQ people are not satisfied with the level of discourse that they find in the the mainstream media and And a more intelligent discourse, you know, realizes our own Uh vulnerabilities are constantly changing situations So that what we stand for today, you know tomorrow in a different situation would be absolutely catastrophic And so I think a more nuanced sophisticated and humble approach You know, probably will have more resonance with you know more thoughtful perceptive and higher IQ types So do you do you think um me and ace are the uh are the future of podcast? Yes. Yes. You guys Let's go Before ace leaves. Um, I just wanted to ask you. Yes. Um, do you know anything about um, thomas seven seven seven Nothing Look forward. I have I have a plethora of documents to send your way I'll put them on your desk and um, I'd be curious. I think I think you would have a field day with this Case study subject. Okay. Um, we're talking about we're talking about the future here I think uh, this person is ripe for uh potential. So, um, We we kind of have a different generational perspective What's the triple seven in thomas's? Name from what I understand. I think it's a play on not triple six, which is evil triple seven is a seven is a A more respectable number a less disreputable number. And so it's kind of turning to play on on um 007 I thought like Ah, yeah, well there may be I understand he likes timothy dalton I think that's his favorite bond and uh, roger more is some uh, some loser. I think by his standards Maybe that's And I think I think seven seven seven is a loser This is uh, this is very disrespectful. I know you're in love with him I am all right. It's uh, I'm in love with a lot of uh people a lot of people We've mentioned in the past um from a scholarly perspective, of course teacher student professional teacher student relationship and uh, I mean the loop What do you think about this picture of eight with uh, thomas triple seven in the jumbo torn? And be as honest as you can. I appreciate any feedback. Um, okay, let's have a look here. Um Um Okay, I'm not oh, sorry. Um, there it is on my phone. I didn't know how to manipulate all this. I don't really have um I'm not as aesthetically I'm more oral a u r a l than um, I am visual. So I don't really have strong feelings about pictures Um, I mean you could look at the comments. Um, you don't have to do that. Mr. Somebody asked me what ethnicity are you and I replied Latina? A very a very not not only highlighting the ethnic ambiguity But also implying that I'm a woman, which is, you know, kind of a double homicide there I did catch that. Thank you. So if he eats enough protein, but is he any else in one meal ago? If he eats enough protein and he gets enough fat and he gets all the nutrients and he goes to the gym I think he could look like a heartthrob. I think he could look like Andrew Tate to be honest Well, because we were doing the stock experiment months back But if I were to do all those things that you're saying are you saying that I could hypothetically date a k-back and sale type? Was that the implication? No, the implication was that thomas triple seven will be attracted to him more Giselle, Giselle, this is my space. I must remind you but um, yeah, well, you've given me a charge of the space now anyway So off you go. You have you have I'm about to I'm about to bow out But um, hopefully I can hear your voices as I come through the front door in about an hour, but um Uh, mr. Ford, it's thank you so much. I appreciate I did not expect to waking up this morning I did not expect to I've been talking to the luke for it. So I appreciate Yeah, the insights the lore nor did I and my harry potter space was basically derailed And and z so there's an account who goes by the name of z was usually in those harry potter spaces or those reading spaces He left the space because he thought that we were going down the anti-semitism name Which usually happens in spaces because I asked luke mr. Ford Oh, well, how how sad of yesterday and then z thought that I was being you know, I was we were going to talk about some Jew stuff But it was it was a genuine question because luke orders you it And so z left immediately if you can recall from that space I think ace is gone now um So what do you want to talk about uh, mr. Ford are you going to be here for a for a while or are you I probably won't be here that long, but are you are you reading any good books lately? Um, so we were doing harry potter. Um, yeah, I'm in good books. Yeah, uh, no I've not been reading anything really actually. Um, I've been reading the Quran. So that has been keeping busy And and has the internet affected your um, uh, what was it called attention space? You know, it's like reading a book kind of a downer compared to the simulation of the internet 100% um I cannot read anymore Full stop, but that also something to do with a really traumatic past relationship. So is that coupled with With the internet and all of this kind of constant Uh, stimulus the getting online. So all of that mixed together has resulted in an inability to just read to myself which is why part of the reason I'm doing the um The reading spaces even if no one's really there or listening. It's It's just to get myself into Reading again. It's a bit selfish And how how is hosting these spaces? How is and participating spaces? How has that affected you? How has that changed you? if at all It's made me more I mean, um, my family so I live with my family and they uh, think I've gone bonkers Um, they're like, will we speak uh or do at home? And I've had my sisters are like, why are you always speaking in a british accent in your room? Yeah, it's because I'm doing twitter spaces and then I was like, oh, what is it with this space? And um, you know any attempt to explain what it is. It just Goes overhead because she she refuses to understand what this thing is about. She just thinks it's absolutely bizarre And what about the singing you're doing much singing these days? No, not really. Um, I mean, I was uh, kind of derailing uh spaces In the beginning by just randomly singing in them kind of trolling people You know when people are just going on and on and on and they're kind of like talking to themselves Maybe like I don't know if you've heard Athenian stranger in spaces It's like monologue after monologue After monologue and it keeps going and going and going and going and then sometimes I just felt the need to just start singing uh But people then told me that um gazelle you can't sing so don't do it again So that that has had a kind of really negative effect on my um confidence when it comes to singing Is there is there any song you'd like to sing right now? um No, not not really. I Also people are asleep in the house. So we'll do the singing Um, how about you? But can you sing at all? Uh, this award? Not not not very well, but I I do do voice exercises several times a week just mainly for my speaking voice Uh, so I I'm interested in the voice, but I I was always marked for having a really bad singing voice when I was a kid And so I'm probably still um gun shy I think that that proves your heterosexuality because honestly my uh threshold for what makes a gay man is a very very low down The guy who starts singing or you know, they can they can even just do a bit of doré v faso latino uh in tune I will just be like, okay same guy who uh created succession, which is a huge cultural elite hit show in the states Is that um, how old is that? Succession, it just ended about a month ago And peep show like 2003 to 2009 And that's british easy or it's not. Yeah. Yeah. Jesse Armstrong made peep show and he also created succession So he did peep show fresh meat, which is about, you know, people at uni in the loop Uh, which was a movie he did four lions And um, oh, did you did you enjoy four lions by the way? I did I did I didn't find it that funny Maybe I've grown up around people like that. So it's just like, uh, I've had enough of you Yeah, yeah, I I mean I didn't grow up around people like that. So for me, it's all bizarre and funny Right. Yeah um, did you watch um little britain that uh poverty used to be on the bbc. Oh god, it was so funny But it's been cancelled now like it's been taken off bbci player. So because some of the stuff was a bit racist and sort of Oh, you know out there Yeah You should watch the you should watch the mirror sketch from little britain. Oh, okay It's so funny. Um, I mean I just die laughing when I'm watching that on youtube I'll send you a thing. Um, anything else you want to discuss? No I should probably get on with it, but it's great to, you know, finally hear your voice Oh, I know it's been lovely talking to you and uh, are you live streaming tonight or No, I think I pretty much done for the day. I'm gonna start to wind down So I was I've been waking up at like three or four a.m. These days. So it's now Uh, 6 30 p.m. Here. I'm gonna start to start to chill and wind down for the day So what time do you sleep then? Um, I usually go to bed between eight and 10 p.m. And I usually wake up between three four occasionally. I get to sleep until like five a.m Wow, that's a really good routine It's not by choice like I'd love to just sleep until five a.m. But I'm just I keep waking up at like two or three a.m Like absolutely wired that I want to make notes on this or I want to blog on that and You know, I'm just like so consumed by an idea or a thought or you know, something that I think might be funny That uh, it's useless to stay in bed, but you know, I wish I was more normal Well, I think what you're doing would have been normal. Uh, just, you know, a couple of decades ago Again, I'm blaming society once again Okay, to be continued this was fun. No, I just had one more question, which is how often do you live stream now? Um, it varies so sometimes I'll go a week 10 days without doing anything and then sometimes I'll do a stream every day for six days I'd probably say on average two or three times a week But it may just be for an hour at a time So how come it's less now? Um, because I'm making more money and I've got like more good things in my life And so I have less need for whatever live streaming fills But today I live streamed for four hours because I knew that I'd have to do some deep carpet cleaning as soon as I stopped live streaming So I tried to push the live streaming as long as possible because I really didn't want to do the carpet cleaning But then I thought, you know, maybe if I take this woman out to dinner and give her a kiss and a cuddle Maybe she'll do the carpet cleaning for me. So I'm going to try to be like Andrew Tate Oh, okay. So you are now actively pursuing women, is it? Well, I don't like doing the carpet cleaning and I need to be focusing on the big ideas Does this mean you're looking for a wife? Uh, I I guess I don't want to do my own carpet cleaning So, yes, I give my I wish you the best of luck. Um, I hope you find a carpet cleaner very soon Thank you. Okay. Cheers. Enjoy the rest of your night. Okay. Thank you. Bye. Bye