 Call to order. This is the 10th regular meeting of the 2010-2011 Common Council and as is customary our city clerk Sue Richards will read the quote of the evening Thank You mayor Leadership the ability to see what no one else sees to listen when others talk and the ability to be optimistic when others are pessimistic Thanks quote. Thank you, Sue Pledge of Allegiance or roll call, please Do a roll call first Warren here Decker here Hammond here Hannah here Heidemann here Coth here Kittleson excused Montemay or here Radke here Rindfleisch here Vanderweal here versey here and Wangeman 14 present we have a quorum now if all the person Vanderweal can please join us or lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank You Jody looking for approval of the minutes of the prior Common Council meeting so move second You have a motion in the second to approve under discussion If there is none all in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries resignations attorney McLean, and there's one email from Alderman Dennis Radke To the mayor and the older persons advising that due to recent events in his life. He'd be moving out of the first district Resignations effective tomorrow August 17th 2010 have a motion to approve. I Move that we accept and approve the resignation Luckily second we have a motion and a reluctant second under discussion and my behalf Alderman Radke We hate to see you leaving the Second district seeing as that is my home district But we wish you luck up being a resident in the first district Thank you in a second under discussion All in favor say aye. Aye opposed motion carries attorney McLean and a letter to the mayor from Ernest M. Kepler advising that he's resigning from the city's capital improvements commission Because he's completed the final phase of his move from the city to Cedar Lake Motion to accept the resignation move to accept the resignation second we have a motion next in a second to accept I think Mike Kepler spent a long time resident of the city and many many different committees he's been a heck of a great resident and has had some great input over the years on City issues and we will miss him in the city wish him luck out at Cedar Lake and I'm sure anybody that gets out there You may see him around We have a motion in a second to accept under discussion There is none all in favor say aye. Aye opposed motion carries Mayor's appointments attorney McLean there's a email from the From the county advising that the chairman Mike van der Sien is appointed supervisor Thomas epping to the city county Shared Services Committee Replace mcannock who resigned from the county board effective August 1st That lies over Motion to file motion to second to file all in favor say aye opposed motion carries and Alderperson Don Hammond to be appointed to the following committees to fill the unexpired term of James Gisha Strategic fiscal plan committee capital improvements Commission City County Shared Services Committee Boarding Transit Commission Boigham special committee on risk management all the terms expiring for 18-2011 Alderman Eric Rinfleis to be appointed to the finance committee to fill the unexpired term of James Gisha term expiring for 18-2011 Alderman Don Hammond to replace James Gisha as chairman of finance committee James borne to be a industrial development Commission to fill the unexpired term of James Gisha term expiring for 16-2012 signed by the mayor Mr.. Mayor move that we accept The appointments as listed on by city attorney McLean second We have a motion and a second to accept if I just may clarify for the public and the alderman Alderman Hammond With being moved up to the chairman of the finance committee these other five committees come along with being the chairman of the finance committee Just so we don't think that alderman Hammond is the is the chosen alderman of the day Under discussion if there is none all in favor say aye Oh, we need to do a roll call on this roll call, please Boke hi decker. Hi Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi. Hi to men. Hi. Hi month mayor. Hi ratty. Hi Rinfleis. Hi Vanderweel. Hi versey. Hi Longamon and born I 14 eyes motion carries Turning McLean Robert Ryan to be appointed to the tax incremental district tid number six joint review board Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move that we accept and the appointments approve the appointment Second we have a motion and a second to approve under discussion There is no roll call, please powers hi Decker hi Hammond. Hi Hannah. Hi Heidemann hi hi Montemay or hi ratty. Hi Rinfleis. Hi Vanderweel. Hi versey. Hi Born I and bulk 14 eyes motion carries We do have one more appointment, which is James Amodio to be the new finance director However, we will hold that for document number 10-38 To be approved first before the before the appointment is considered Moving on Moving on to the public forum Sue yes evening the first on our public forum is Lee Montemay or junior and Lee could I have your home address, please? 1015 Logan, Sheboygan, Wisconsin And you will have five minutes sir. Thank you Oh For me August 4th, we had the committee the whole meeting here and With regard to the possible binding referendum in November election whether we should privatize the ambulance service who once again The report that Alderman Bowers offered was pretty much a criticism of the fire finance department The CPA did the best she could with the misinformation supplied to her when questioned her Criticism of the city's accounting procedures. Hers answers were I don't know Let me say that this time that this could be a mistake if the referendum is passed. I urge you The heat city attorney McLean's advice if not you may once again be putting yourself into a corner as What done in the 1990s? That resulted of being stuck with a monopoly type subsidized ambulance service with little control The last time we had an advisory referendum on the ambulance service the citizens voted yes To an ambulance service run by the city Run by the Sheboygan Police Department. The vote count was 92 65 to 44 36 However, the state mandate requirements were to play a big factor in the question The operations of the ambulance service in all communities in Wisconsin Our city's fathers listened to the citizens and started to replace the obsolete procedures and equipment that needed to be to be in compliance with the state of Wisconsin mandates of 1989 Qualifications to further educate our employees from basic EMT to AMT Intermediate was one such requirement with paramedics being the other option with both hospitals had requested The mandate of requirement the replacement of patty wagons were patrol wagons with real type Vehicles with life-saving equipment and personnel The city ordered the new ambulances, but soon found out There Specifications were incorrect because the vehicles were too were not big enough to carry the required equipment and employees The city reordered the new ambulance and corrected the problem education then of then present employees to run Running to council opposition due to budgetary concerns and the council decided the taxpayers could not afford to comply with the Education requirements and abolished the city-run ambulance service. We chose instead to private ambulance service Instead to it instead of educating our employees. We chose to subsidize a private company The city then put an ambulance service up for bids Curtis ambulance was awarded the orange the contract over Orange Cross a jointly owned company by Memorial and St. Nicholas Hospital Curtis was given a five-year contract On June 19th of 89 the stipulation that Curtis would have paramedic a level service in the place by April 1 of 90 Curtis began that the service in October of 89 contractually meet all the state requirements from medical service Sheboygan County at that time Was subsidized in Orange Cross the ambulance with $70,000 annually to serve the part of the county The city the ship the city of Sheboygan being part of the county was also subsidizing the private company Orange Cross This subsidization Was to grow to ninety five thousand dollars annually Now a number event started to happen After the awarding of the ambulance service to Curtis On October 31 of 90 the medical director of St. Nicholas assigned to Curtis suddenly resigned and St. Nicholas refused to replace him with another doctor the state requires a medical doctor to serve medical control and supervise emergency Medical service above EMT basic level that broke Curtis's contract with the city Curtis was dropped at the end of November 90 and a 90 day 90 day contract was awarded to Orange Cross on a trial basis During the next year the short the fire department was asked if they would be interested in supplying The city of Sheboygan with ambulance service the fire department answered yes, but it would take some years to accomplish With natural attrition and the change to require medical Education and experience of newly hired firemen in the fire department The plan was submitted to start this program and now we have a highly regarded experienced Ambulance service operated by city employees Supplying tax relief revenues for the taxpayers of Sheboygan excuse me Lee, would you like your extra minutes? Orange Cross is still in business and operates it as a tax exempt company that pays no taxes But uses all its services furnished to the citizens of Wisconsin we Subsidize this company with the labor of first responders to all 9-1-1 calls They do not share any of their revenues with the city of Sheboygan Now ladies and gentlemen, we have an ideal setup with a city-run ambulance service along with a private sector It's a win-win type of service Thank you Thank you, Lee. Thank you. Thank you next Next this evening would be Dick Susha Dick, I have your home address 15 North Point Drive. You will have five minutes, sir. Thank you We the Sheboygan County taxpayers alliance do not think it necessary to slow down the referendum process By including confusing dollar figures in a straightforward question Should the ambulance service be a private or public venture? Four years ago when the issue was debated the then fire chief stated that if the fire department ambulance service lost money The city could take the money out of the fire division. Remember that? Was that a prediction of things to come? The thrust of the new service was to preserve jobs as stated by our current fire chief It was not being touted as a big money maker for the city's general fund the SCTA and the Sheboygan committee have questioned the accuracy of any profit 400,000 600,000 Even Terry Hansen in his five scenarios projected a long-term loss in each scenario Why expect the referendum question to answer these dollar figures and further confused the public? The financial report has yet to be released to the alderman or the public If ramifications are to be in black and white Then add one line from the CPA That is The bottom line is the ambulance service run by the fire department will continue to cost the taxpayers each year We asked for a simply stated up or down vote on the issue by our citizens Do not come it up with political numbers political wording or financial numbers Any further muddying of the waters? Who only delay this from getting on the November ballot end of this month by the end of August? The question on a November ballot this November ballot will not cost the city any extra expense Do not delay this process The citizens deserve to be heard. Thank you Thank you, dick Okay, no more public forum under mayor's announcements I believe I will be brief this evening for a change first of all, I would like to think Ask me local two zero three nine, which is our DPW Union Regarding the Callbox out at King Park on the south side. We have raised $1500 $2,000 so far $2,000 to date and they have stepped up with an extra $500 For that cause so we now have $2,500 toward that call box I believe that call box is on order for 31 50 so $650 more and we get that much needed emergency call box add zero cost to the taxpayers as far as as far as Materials costs go at least so thank you very much to the DPW Union F's me local 2039 Not pertaining at all to that matter On Garbage pickup and recycling This this was discussed a couple months back With the same Union regarding garbage pickup when we went to recycling on Every garbage pickup day as opposed to every second week And you could mix your your paper in with your your plastic etc. That is not going to change However, we did go with black garbage bags and that has caused some issues of being with the black garbage bags Not being being able to identify what is in those garbage bags And we've had some issues with people putting things in the garbage that actually does not belong in the garbage such as some hazardous waste or things of the sort and We have decided to go back with the clear or opaque garbage bags It will not change the garbage schedule pickup It will not change anything with the extended will not change the recycling schedule You'll still be able to put your recyclables out in blue bags every week However, at the same time, we will be going back to clear or or the opaque white bags That are visible through them This is going to be instituted On October 1st give people time to use up the black bags that they've stockpiled And we will have a bit of a of a cushion in between there at the same time I'd like to address on Bags themselves we've had some people that are using the So-called pigly wiggly bag for recyclables the small blue bag, which is about a two gallon bag And putting out 30 to 40 of those with their recyclables We do have a requirement of a minimum of a 13 gallon bag. There's a reason for that It's not to get people to buy 13 gallon bags. I mean we don't make any money off of garbage bags in the city But as far as the manpower it takes to lift up all these tiny bags in the time It takes to put them into into the recyclable vehicle Just so people know that we do have minimum Gallant bags because I have had several calls in my office recently of people that say they're saving money by using the the tiny bags Just so everybody understands 13 gallon bags and that's an issue of Manpower and how much time it takes to pick up, you know, 30 or 40 little tiny bags, so Just so we're clear on that. I believe that is about all I have on mayoral announcements Going into the next item Which will be information regarding open aldermanic seats As we know there are There is a vacancy in the first district at the moment and an upcoming vacancy as of tomorrow and district number two Any person that is interested in either of these aldermanic seats should send a letter of interest and a letter explaining Background, you know, may you why why you may be interested in serving on the Common Council to the city clerk's office No later than Friday, September 3rd At the next Common Council meeting, which is actually three weeks from today because this is a five-month a month Which should be September Tuesday September 7th the day after Labor Day Interested parties will be given a chance to speak to the alder persons prior to them voting to seat someone for district number one And district number two So if you're interested in serving on the Common Council, this beats the heck out of running a two or three month campaign you can Obviously run about a five-minute speech and Get your get your feet wet so to speak in in city government, I hope that we get a lot of interest in these positions I am looking forward to people coming forward in both of these both of these districts Alderman Hannah, did you have a comment? Yeah, just a just a question They'll serve out the remainder of They will serve until the spring election correct sir. Thank you until the until the April general election Okay That is all I have for in mayor's announcements and information regarding the open aldermanic seats Switching to the consent agenda Items 10 1 through 10 21 vice president Rindflash. Thank you, mr. Mayor I'm going to accept and file all our O's accept and adopt all our C's and pass all resolution and ordinances from 10 1 to 10 21 in the consent agenda second. We have a motion in a second On the consent agenda under discussion There is no discussion roll call, please Hammond hi Hanna Hi Hi Montemay or I Radke I Rindflash. Hi Vanderweel. I versey hi wongamon Born I bow I and powers I 14 eyes carries communications and petitions 10 dash 22 to be referred Reports of officers to 10 dash 26 by the purchasing agent submitting a report relative to the design and installation of a new vehicle Fueling facility at the municipal service building That will be referred to public works, thank you Reports of officers to continuing 10 23 through 10 27 will be referred resolutions introduced three 10 dash 28 by alderman boring Authorizing entering into a contract for the provision and installation of a new vehicle fueling station for the municipal service Building I add that will hold or That will go to public works also. Yes. Are we finished with that one? Okay, 10 dash 29 by alderman Hammond authorizing the redevelopment authority to retain outside legal counsel to represent the redevelopment Authority in connection with removal of a restrictive covenant on the former Walmart Parcel alderman Hammond. Thank you, mr. Mayor I need a motion to suspend or I make motion to suspend the rules second We have a motion in a second to suspend the rules under discussion under suspension of the rules Do we want an explanation vice president Rindflash? Explanation, please time is of the essence in this matter Due to some things that are pending So we need to get this in and approve quickly so that the Michael best can get working on it It's a fish an explanation Is anybody opposed to suspending the rules? There is no opposite or suspended. Please continue. Thank you, mr. Mayor I make a motion that we I move that we accept or put the resolution upon its passage Second have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion If there is no discussion roll call, please Hammond, I Hannah I Cut I want to me or I rat key I Rindflash, I Vander wheel I verse II Warren I bulk I powers I and Decker 14 eyes motion carries 10-30 by alderman Hammond for the consideration and Adoption on an initial resolution relating to industrial development revenue bond financing on behalf of RCS in powers incorporated as Required by state law information regarding the expected job impact of the project to be financed with bonds of the project site and Elsewhere in the state of Wisconsin will be available at the time of consideration of the initial resolution Alderman Hammond at all that one breath Can I move that we passed that we passed or accept the resolution upon this passage? Second we have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion alderman boran Thank You may Ryan. I got a question for attorney McLean Attorney McLean is this property? Going to be on the property tax rolls. I Don't believe so. I believe RCS is tax exempt Is this an opportunity to get some payments in lieu of services Payments for services in lieu of taxes What they're requesting is for the city to authorize At least initially issuance of industrial development revenue bond financing so that they can Build on to their facility I Don't believe there's been any discussion with RCS as far as any any sort of quid pro quo for Adopting the initial resolution Basically what it does is allows them to use the city's statutory industrial revenue bond Authority to get a lower interest rate. It's not a It's not a obligation of the city That's that the taxpayers are on the hook for I Guess it's up to the council as to whether you want to hold off on this. I don't know what their timing is I think they're interested in Constructing their project as soon as possible, but really haven't had much discussion Anyone else? Thank You Steve alderman born Thank You mayor. Well, I guess we did this I think we did this last year of the year before for safe harbor and We didn't talk to them about payments and lieu Taxes so I guess I wouldn't want it wouldn't want to pursue it then if Coming back to my memory that we did the same thing for safe harbor. Thank you Thank You alderman born any further discussion There's no further discussion roll call, please Hannah I Montemay or I Racky I Rinfleshe I Vanderweel I verse II long man. I Foreign I bulk Bowers I Decker I and Hammond I 14 eyes Motion carries 10-31 by alderman Hammond relating to waiver of section 66 point one one zero three eleven be one In connection with an industrial development revenue bond financing on behalf of RCS empowers incorporated once again alderman Hammond Thank You, mr. Mary move that the resolution be put upon its passage second We have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion If there is none roll call, please Hi Montemay or I ratki. Hi Rinfleshe. Hi Vanderweel. I verse II long man Foreign I bulk I Bowers I Decker I Hammond I and Hannah 14 I motion carries 10-33 32 through 10-34 to be referred Report of committee 6 10-35 by law and licensing recommending denying taxi cab drivers license number 7 7 6 0 based upon her ineligibility for the license and her oral withdrawal of her application Vice president Rinfleshe. Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that the committee be accepted and adopted We have a motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion Is a Brenda Villarreal here? She's not your honor. Please continue. We're not surprised. She's not here because she did call me and ask that We remove her application at this time However It was also seen that she was ineligible for the said application So we do need to actually deny at this point in time so she can begin the process over again next time Thank you. Very good. Thank you vice president Rinfleshe. Any further discussion? If there is no roll call, please Excuse me cut. Hi Montemay or hi ratki. Hi Rinfleshe van der wheel. Hi versi. Hi long man. Hi Boran. Hi Boke. Hi Bowers. Hi Decker. Hi Hammond. Hi Hannah. Hi and Heidemann. Hi 14 eyes Motion carries report of committee 7 10-36 by public protection and safety recommending filing resolution number 62-10-11 by Alderpersons Bowers, Wongamon and Heidemann calling for a referendum on abandoning the city's fire-based ambulance service Alderperson Montemay or thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that we accept and file the RC We have a motion and a second to accept and file under discussion. I'm sorry. Who did the second? Thank you. Alderman Decker Motion and a second to accept accept in that and File the report of committee correct except in the report of committee Which is the most appropriate for the RC for an RC you said to accept and file Well, we should be saying for accept and adopt for an RC because the states that the resolution be filed. Yes, okay Motion to accept and adopt in a second by Alderman Decker under discussion If there is no discussion all in favor say aye Opposed motion carries Report of committee 8 10-37 by the committee of the whole recommending calling for a referendum on abandoning the city's fire-based ambulance service and passing the attached substitute resolution Vice president Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted and the Substitute resolution be put upon its past We have a motion and a second to accept and adopt and send the substitute resolution upon its passage under discussion Alderpersons Montemay or Thank you, mr. Mayor. I'm assuming that agenda item 10 36 doesn't have anything to do with 10 37 because this is a substitute resolution or Did we actually file the referendum Steve? You accept and adopted the committee report which was to File resolution 62 dash 10 dash 11 What you have before you now is? committee report committee the whole That a substitute resolution be adopted. I think that's separate from Res 62-10 dash 11. Thank you Steve. So I would make a motion to amend agenda item number 1037 and The substitute resolution is on the back Okay, go back again. What did you just say? Amend the substitute resolution, okay And that amendment would be the amendment would be that a Resolution calling for an advisory referendum on abandoning the city's fired based ambulance service in the first sentence and then in the Be it further resolved that the common council shall consider Taking such actions as are necessary to carry out the decision of the electorate on said referendum question so that we can Discuss and decide if it is the best after we get all the numbers if the referendum were to pass or to fail Okay, if we can have a quick rundown on that so we have an advisory referendum on abandoning the city's fire-based ambulance service Okay, the first amendment would be to change the first paragraph to read a resolution calling for and Advisory referendum on abandoning the city's fire-based ambulance service, right? Okay, but then you go down to the first speed further resolved right and you want that to stay in well We should consider Rather than shall shall consider action. Yeah as are necessary to carry out the decision of the electorate Now that states that if the electrics electric a lot of electorate Of course, it is an advisory Okay, that's what she wants Attorney McLean does that make sense what I'm just saying am I using the correct words that we shall actually the council then will have the final action You may want to say if you're looking at making it an advisory in the be it further resolved that the council Shall take such Actions as a deems appropriate perhaps. Thank you. Yes, there's a better decision of the electorate on said referendum question. Yes. Thank you, Steve Those are better words That the common counsel so shall take such actions as are deemed appropriate As opposed to necessary would you like consider in there still Steve Shall consider actions That's fine consider such actions and as it deems appropriate. I would say Is it deems appropriate? Okay? So we have a resolution calling for an advisory referendum and on banding the city's fire-based ambulance service be it further resolved that the common Council shall consider such actions as it deems appropriate to carry out the decision of the electorate on said Referendum question all to person Montemay art. Does that work? Do we have a second on that? I'll second for discussion. We have a motion and a second under discussion on the amendment We have Alderman versey. Thank you, Mr. On the amendment only on the ma'am. Yes, it's on the amendment actually it'll be to change the date If you look into going January 1st 2012, there will be a lot more expenditures as far as unemployment goes As far as if we need to relieve Some hermetic from their duties if this passes if there's no more ambulance service if we get rid of a lot of yes If you get rid of four new paramedics, that's four paramedics That'll be on the unemployment, which is rough roughly about $10,000 a year and unemployment right now is 24 months So that's around $80,000 if you wait till January instead of July 31st So I guess and the amendment We're we're on the first we're on the first amendment right now Okay Yeah, we have to decide on the first amendment before we can have a second amendment to the first discussion under the amendment Correct, Sue. Well, what we're discussing right now is changing to an advisory and to consider it As it deems appropriate to carry out the decision. Okay, and then you want to change the date. Is that what you're saying? Yeah in the question From January 1 to July 31st 2011 Steve I think that's a separate question Alderman verse. Yeah, I think that in should council should address the first amendment Either up or down and then to the extent You've got another amendment to make make that Okay Okay, thank you Alderman versey on the first amendment all vice president Rindflesch. Thank you, mr. Mayor I seconded for discussion purposes For basically the same reasons that I've told people have asked me about make it Referendum that we absolutely have to follow or make it an advisory referendum. I told them all the same thing I'm up for reelection and if my constituents overwhelmingly support Moving the city owned fire service To Orange Cross or some other entity and I don't follow up with that motion I'm not I won't win quite clearly so my opinion is advisory or otherwise doesn't really make the difference I think the people's voice will be heard one way the other and Certainly I will follow in that direction That they choose so choose to do so. I don't think I do like about advisory though is to make sure that As all attorney McLean appointed out You're guaranteeing a particular date to what if a said service Gives us the lowest bid and either July 31st or January 1st 2012 But the lowest bid actually says well give us to March 1st I think having advisory allows us to go in that direction to say, okay, you are the lowest bidder We don't have to subsidize you will give you the extra three months because you know We've allowed for the advisory instead of you know having it just You know straight as is if that saves money and I'm all for that Whereas if someone offers the lowest bid and can't meet the deadline that we've we've given them within the referendum question You know, I hate to have to spend more money on somebody than somebody who'd be willing to do it for less So we'll support changing it to Referendum but just so the public knows is that I do intend to follow through with their will as in the Reference question. Thank you. Thank you vice president Rindflash Alderman Hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor, and this is somewhat germane to the revised one But I think we can simply address All the person Rindflash's question by saying beginning no later than January 1st 2012 so if somebody was to come forward earlier It would still be it would still be consistent on that So I just I think this puts a drop dead date in but also would give us the flexibility that if somebody came earlier in the process And it worked fine so And the phone calls I've been getting have asked that it That it be a binding referendum phone calls have been Both pro and con for it But consistently they want a binding referendum Okay, thank you Alderman Hannah still under discussion on the amendment Alderman Bowers we've gone through this style for over six months and To tell the electorate that it's not a binding white wave and vote phone calls that I have received By electorate along with Marx is that they want a binding referendum So therefore that's what we're elected to do is carry out What we've been instructed to do so therefore I think we should vote on this tonight and make it a binding resolution Okay Do we have any further discussion Alderman wangaman? Thank You mr. Mayor. I think the council has amply demonstrated in the past that we can't seem to make up our mind on this one and I would hate to see it being tossed back and forth again a half a dozen times And as Alderman Bowers and Alderman Hannah pointed out the phone calls I've been getting is People are pro and con on this whole issue, but they want a binding referendum They want to be able to make the decision they think it's high time that now that it's their turn to step up and Make the decision. I know the media has said the councillor shirking their responsibility by not Coming to a solid decision on this, but we've I think demonstrated that it doesn't work Here it we're too divided on this and so I think it's our duty to make it a binding referendum so that the People can make an absolute decision on this and I think it's their right to do so. Thank you Thank You Alderman wangaman Alderman bow. Thank you, mr. Mayor. I Have to agree with my colleague Alderman wangaman in that I think we've demonstrated an inability to come to a conclusion on this We had a chance to accomplish the same thing a few weeks ago by not hiring for additional firefighters That would have forced that conversation. I'd encourage people out to tax payers Perhaps we can get channel 8 to rebroadcast our committee the whole meeting from a couple of weeks ago There was about probably a 45 or 60 minute conversation on this very issue So we won't relive that tonight But if you want to get more educated and talk about the things we talk or understand the things we talked about Encourage channel 8 to rebroadcast that Everything that I've heard from my constituents say that same thing you guys have for three years Folks have been pushing this and pushing this for all the right reasons and we haven't been able to Vote in any decisive way. So as much as I am sort of notionally against referenda in general I'm going to support this referendum and I'm going to suggest that it stay binding and again that the folks that are on the Side of the the conversation that want it to be binding and that want it to pass I think we're in for some unintended consequences and given the Deep pockets of the forces aligned on the other side of the fence. They may very well lose We may very well hear from the public by who turns out for that vote that we're going to keep that ambulance So given that the electric has told me my electorate has told me that they want it to be binding and that's where I'm going to vote Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Alderman Boak, and I agree on the rebroadcast of that committee of the whole meeting Cuz I missed the second half of it myself Okay Under further discussion on the amendment only I do not see any more lights We will take a roll call vote on the amendment on the amendment a yes vote will be to amend Everybody clear on what the amendment is See everybody nodding Okay Racky Rinflaish aye Vanderveel aye Versi no Wongamang no Boran no Boke no Bowers. No Decker. No Hammond. No Hannah no Heidemann. No, cut. No in Montemay or aye four eyes ten nose The amendment fails back to the original question Which is resolution number 62 dash 10 dash 11 and the substitute resolution Vice president Rinflaish. Thank you, Mr. Mayor Alderman Hannah, I had a couple of points that I want to bring up again that we did discuss at the committee of the whole meeting and two questions I think remain now that we've made it Minding resolution just two small points. I think we need to be clarified just that the taxpayers benefits One is the statement of a private ambulance service I think we need to open that up to private non-profit or perhaps change the word to most cost efficient ambulance service I hate for someone to say well private means for profit And we can't give it to Senator Orange Cross somebody else that is an out-for-profit So clarify that to simply saying Favor of a favor of the most cost effective ambulance service, which I don't think is changing anything Except just opening that up to whoever runs an ambulance service And then as Alderman Hannah pointed out changing the beginning January 1st 2012 to Beginning no later than January 1st 2012 again if there is a more cost effective Date that someone can begin earlier than that to save taxpayers money I think we should allow for that as well versus simply saying December 30th, you can't start number 34th. You can't start January 1st. You can It's also a holiday. So perhaps someone else would want to have a different date for beginning an ambulance service as well So those I would make a motion to amend stating you read that amendment sure back to us, please Change the second line to in favor of the most cost effective ambulance service beginning No later than January 1st 2012 second The most cost effective Ambulance service no later than January 1st 2012 Okay, we have a motion in a second for the Referendum question to read shall the city of Sheboygan abandoned its fire department based ambulance service in favor of the most cost effective service the most cost effective ambulance service beginning no later than January 1st 2012 that is the Amendment proposed and seconded under discussion on this amendment. I have to wait again Alderman versey. I have to wait until this amendment goes away Okay, Alderman Bowers. Would you like to come in on this amendment? Hmm? I certainly would I Think this body is able to make a decision and cost effective That that's kind of an ambiguous term because we'll end up with another argument a year from now or six months from now It'll be four or five saying this one is cost effective the other one then we'll have another referendum So I think we're able to make that decision on our own regarding cost effective I think what is ever the best interest in the city of Sheboygan and the cost is important but not the most important thing Thank You Alderman Bowers I kind of wonder though if the council can't come to a decision on the ambulance service if they can come to a decision on cost effectiveness so Next we have Alderman Hammond Thank You mr. Mayor. I certainly In favor of the no later than date. I think that's a great idea keeps us out of that But the term most cost effective now Maybe somebody can clarify this but would that mean that the fire department could now rebid? for the Services if they could come back and prove that they're the most cost effective I'm not trying to pick on you I just it does seem to me like it could open the door President Rindflay shall open up the floor for a response. Thank you. I'm sorry. It's not my intention I think the public wants to have a say on on this and It's clear it's going to be City run fire department or something else and I don't really intend to open that up to anything So if it's the committees to say instead of saying most cost-effectiveness simply say private and that's fine as well I mean, that's my intent is to get I'm not just trying to find what private is. I'm saying some kind of non-government run Maybe that would be the way to For the discussion or I can change mine to public I'll change my motion to amend to keeping the being a later than and changing private or my amendment of the most cost-effective to private and or non-profit or But we'll change non-government run ambulance service. I'll second that Okay, so you wanted to read now shall the city of Sheblegan Bannon its fire department based ambulance service in favor of a non-government run Ambulance service in favor of a non-government operated Ambulance service beginning no later than January 1 2012 We have a second on that. Yes motion in a second on that amendment Okay So do we all know what the question is the the revised amended question Under discussion on the revised amended question only Alderman Bourne. Thank you mayor. Just to have the city clerk It would the question would read shall the city of Sheboygan abandon now correct me if I'm wrong Alderman Rindflash It's fire department based ambulance service in favor of a non-government operated ambulance service Beginning no later than January 1 2012. Yes Okay, we have the question under discussion on the amended question only vice president Rindflash Did you have anything more? No, just didn't turn you off before Alderman Hannah Nothing Alderman versey. Yes on the amended question the amended question. Very good. Yes. Thank you mayor In case this does pass I'd still want to put that fact out just food for thought for your date that is an extra $80,000 if you go past the July 31st date So it's doing your same amendment, but just changing your date would be saving another $80,000 potentially Thank you Alderman versey All the person want to me or Thank you, mr. Mayor. I think you know, we're going to go ahead and vote on this. I have a question regarding Conflict of interest with Alderman versey Okay The question is regarding conflict of interest regarding Alderman versey and I will refer this graciously to our city attorney Steve I guess I'd say on the issue of whether or not to place a referendum on the ambulance service before the Constituents, I don't see the conflict. I think It's not taking a position one way or another As it stands the date pushback to no later than January 2012 I don't see that It would just be conjecture to say that It's necessarily going to be orange cross that would get the contract if if the electorate were to vote in favor of the the referendum so I think it's My opinion it would not create a conflict of interest for all the person versey to vote on this resolution Thank You attorney McLean and answers your question all the person on to me. Yes. Thank you Alderman Hannah. Yeah, I just I just think thank you Steve. I just want to weigh in on that I I see no conflict With this we're not talking about any individual services Sometime down the road If orange cross becomes one of the top two or three candidates That's all the members these choice Do it. I think we've beaten this horse Plenty and I think it's perfectly appropriate for him to vote on this Thank You Alderman Hannah Okay, the question under discussion now is the appropriateness of Alderman versey to Vote or not to vote on this issue. We've heard attorney McLean Alderman Bowers, I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay. Thank you Okay, if we have no further discussion we will go back to the question which is the revised amended Question which reads sue Shall the city of Sheboygan Abandoned its fire department based ambulance service in favor of a non-government operated ambulance service beginning no later than January 1 2012 and I vote would be to approve that wording So an I vote would be to approve the revised substitute referendum question Everybody clear on that This is an amendment we have to vote on The revised amendment amendment there you go. Thank you Everybody clear on the on the question and I vote would be to approve the revised amendment Everybody's clear Okay, roll call, please Rin Flesch I Vander wheel I versey no Wongamon I Boran I Boke I Bowers no Decker I Hammond I Hanna I vitamin I Cut I Montemay or I and Radke I 12 eyes to nose Motion carries Okay, are we still? Go on to the next one. We're still on that one now Still Okay, we're looking for a motion to pass the substitute resolution as amended vice president Rin Flesch That's the motion. I like to make so I still like to Accept and adopt the report a committee and pass the as amended Substitute resolution second and put that on a passage. Thank you very well said Under discussion Alderman Bowers Just one thing I like to point out that Alderman versey said is we might have some money concerns here And I believe he used the date of July 1st 2011 and do something with wages and benefits and things like that So would it be to our benefit to amend this instead of? January 1st 2012 to July 1st 2011 Are you making an amendment or are you I would like an amendment 31st? So you're you're proposing an amendment to the question to change the to July 31st 2011. Yes Do we have a second second? We have a motion in a second and a third Under discussion Alderman Bouch Thank You mr. Mayor. I would just remind my colleague that we don't need this amendment It's built in no later than if if the good people that are on the committees that run this thing think we can do it earlier We will we're a bunch of penny pinchers. We're gonna do it earlier. We don't need this extra amendment in my judgment I'm gonna vote against it. Thank you mr. Mayor Thank You Alderman Bouch Alderman Boren Thank You Mayor Ryan. I'm also going to vote against it for the reason that If this resolution if this referendum passes to get out of the ambulance business It's going to be the fire chief's decision as to whether As to whether or how long those four individuals Stay on the payroll and I would think that if that if that issue came up with Laying those individuals off before July 31st. I think the council can make that decision I don't think we have to make that decision now, so I'm not going to support it. Thank You Alderman Boren and I Do have a budget to put together for 2011 Which If it is July 31st 2011 hinges greatly It's pretty hard to put a budget together when you don't know if you are going to have a source of revenue or expenditure No matter which way you want to look at it In the middle of the year So I just want to make that clear Any further discussion yes Alderman Bowers did you mean to In the motion say no later than July 31st 2012. Yes, 11. I'm sorry Yes, no later than right Can we have the amended Proposed amended referendum question please sure Shall the city of Sheboygan abandoned its fire department Based ambulance service in favor of a non government operated service beginning no later than July 31st 2011 So the between this question in the last is the July 31st 2011 date Deadline Any further discussion on the date a yes vote on this would change the date to July 31st 2011 as opposed to January 1st 2012 is everybody clear on that No later than there's Sir, no, no, and I just said no later than right It would be no later than July 31st 2011 and no later than December 31st Right, but the one we passed before was no later than And I vote will change the date to July 31st 2011 a no vote will keep the date at January 1st 2012 Everybody clear on that roll call, please the under wheel. No Versi hi long come in. Hi Born no folk no powers. Ah, yeah, I'm sorry. Was that a yes. Yes, two yeses Decker no Hammond no, Hannah. No Heidemann. No, God. No Montemay or no Radke. No and Rin Flesch. No All right I'm sorry the other way around three eyes and 11 nose motion fails Give this another whirl place president Rin Flesch Motion or previous motion still stands previous motion still stands the motion and who had the second Alderman Hannah had the second on the revised referendum question Can we get away with that? To accept and adopt the report of committee and to pass the substitute resolution as As amended under discussion If there is none roll call, please. Oh Alderman bulk Alderman Hammond were you in there he beat you to it? He did Wasn't that good at family food when I was a kid? I just want to commend the folks that have stood behind this for so long opposing this ambulance Conversation a difficult conversation, but it's a great exercise in individual liberties and why this country is great The reason for the referendum is because we've completely The taxpayers feel like they've completely lost control of this city and frankly they probably have When this body can't decide to save the taxpayers a quarter of a million dollars over three years because we're worried that the The labor unions may grieve that may grieve saving our taxpayers a Quarter of a million dollars over three years when we are worried about that being grieved in us losing that is time for Metaphorically the taxpayers to get their pitchforks and storm City Hall and that's what this is This is the taxpayers saying we don't trust you anymore. We want control. We you've abdicated your leadership We're taking over and so I just really want to encourage those people who've had the courage and tenacity and stick with it To get it to this point, and I hope we'll pass this referendum tonight. Thank you, Mr. Mayor Thank You Alderman bulk Alderman Hammett. Can you beat that? No, I'm gonna try although I'm glad you said metaphorically because I don't The only thing I'd like to point out is one of the things that hasn't been talked about in this Resolution is that there was going to be five public listening sessions Throughout this process as we've lead into the referendum I would hope and pray that throughout this time period the only information that's getting out there is you know sound information based off of facts and figures not based off of rhetoric and Everything else we've been hearing over the last at least since my time on the council So I would encourage both sides to please stick to the facts You know as we're debating this issue and let the let the our constituents make an informed Intelligent decision based off the facts and not rhetoric. That's my thank you very much Thank You Alderman Hammond under further discussion Alderman Bulk. Do you have something better? Yes, sir? Thank you miss mayor one last point My my colleague is a man of numbers and he knows the numbers tell both sides of the story depending on which numbers you talk about And so as we discussed at the committee the whole meeting last week This is going to become a high school popularity contest whoever spends more and there are deep pockets on one side of this argument Whoever spends more to spread their story is probably going to win this and that's why I wish The folks the citizens who are behind this I wish them good luck because I'm I'm afraid there's a very real possibility They may lose because the other side may spend more to tell their story and as much as I wish Alderman Hammond Could be right and fair finance Hammond could be right This is going to devolve into a factless tell my side of the story Popularity contest and it's going to be very interesting see what happens in November. Thank you, mr. Mayor Thank you, Alderman bulk and and I do agree that We get clear numbers Lie, so I think that's that's what everybody needs to look at not pertaining to this question right now But if this question does succeed and it is a referendum item That people look at the facts and not the emotion not the rhetoric Look at the facts and and know the ramifications one way or the other of which way that you vote on this issue Thank you for everybody and All the input and now we will vote on the question Versi hi Wongman hi Born hi bulk. Hi Bowers. Hi Decker. Hi Hammond. Hi Hannah hi Heidemann. Hi, Scott. Hi, Montemay or no Radke hi Rindflash, hi and Vanderweel. No 12 eyes and two nose motion carries Moving on Ordinances introduced 10 10-38 by Alderpersons Hannah Vanderweel and Versi establishing this salary for the finance director slash treasurer Alderman Hannah Mayor I would move that the Resolution be put upon its passage second Alderman Hannah. Could we get a suspension first? Oh? May I ask for suspension of the rules? Second we have a motion this is in the second on suspension of the rules mr. Mayor may have an opportunity to explain why Vice president Rindflash, would you like that? At least to the point we do not have a finance director and in my opinion We have the opportunity to hire a very fine Finance director, and I think it would be foolish of us not to take advantage of this Thank You Alderman Hannah on suspension of the Only under discussion If there is no discussion is anybody opposed to the rules being suspended If nobody is the rules are suspended Alderman Hannah, please continue Okay, so we've got I move that the ordinance be put upon its Second we have a motion in the second and a third to put the ordinance upon its passage under discussion Alderman bow what a fantastic candidate what a fantastic resume what a fantastic search process For those people that are writing newspaper articles and newspaper letters saying we can't bring decent people into the government Sheboygan I need to take a look at this resume. This will be a fine addition to this team the power team of chairperson Hammond and this new potential candidate and The leadership from the office of the mayor on this I think our chances of delivering a 2011 budget Just really go through the roof if we approve this today Bravo on this candidate. I concur Alderman buck. Thank you Alderman Hannah Thank you It is rare That a citizen with disqualification Would walk away from the private sector And offer public service and this is clearly a movement towards public service. I don't want to make public what What he accomplished and his level of compensation in the private sector? This is a fraction of where he's been and we are very fortunate that he lives in Koehler He's looking forward to moving into Sheboygan and I think his talents Combined with mr. Hammond. I think we're going to have a strong Finest direction going forward Thank you, Alderman Hannah vice president rent flesh just to put a clarification right now We're simply voting on the ordinance to establish a salary. Is that correct? Are we also voting on we are simply voting on establishing the salary at this point very good After the salary is established. We will consider appointing A new finance director just to clarify that that those are voting for or against it the document But it would not be doing so based on the gentleman involved The appointments simply on the establishing the the salary right. Thank you Thank you for clarifying that vice president rent flesh any further discussion on This is me salary for the finance director slash treasurer If there is no roll call, please Longman, hi Boran hi, Boke. Hi Bowers. Hi, Decker. Hi Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi, Heidemann. Hi, Ka. Hi Montemayor, hi, Radke. Hi rent flesh. Hi, Vanderweel. Hi and Percy. Hi 14 eyes Motion carries now. We will have the confirmation of mayor's appointments on the finance director attorney McLean Dated today's date honorable members of the council hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration James M a modio to be appointed as finance director for a five-year term contingent upon successful completion of the six-month probationary period Commencing August 23 2010 and expiring August 22 2015 signed by the mayor Thank you attorney McLean vice president rent flesh. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I move that we Accept the appointments Now we need a suspension on the appointment sorry Myself an awkward position to actually ask for suspension Would anybody like a vice president rent flesh to explain the suspension Painful detail As we discussed we've now created a position to establish salary for the position It'd be nice to have the person start on the dates August 23rd as Stated on the previous document so we can all finish with the budget Thank You vice president rent flesh we have a motion and a second Alderman Hannah did you second on that motion? Yes, I did. Okay. We have a motion and a second to a point for finance To suspend the rules we still have suspension Okay, is there anybody opposed to the rules being suspended? If there is not the rules are suspended vice president rent flesh. Thank you, Your Honor I ask that we accept the appointment Second we have a motion and a second to accept the appointment of James a mode. I'm Odeo a modio Modio Yes, I told him I'd get his name right because he stuck with it for the next five years So James a modio Jim a modio to be our next finance director in the city under discussion If there is none roll call, please Warren I Bowers I Deckard I Hammond enthusiastically I Wow like that Hannah I Heidemann I cut I Montemay or I Radke. I rent flesh Vander wheel I Versi I and one woman I 14 eyes, but I also motion carries That's an accomplishment. Thank you everybody, okay Moving on if I can find my spot here once again 10 through the 10 dash 39 through 10 40 lies over matters laid over 11 9-40 resolution number 74 dash 10 dash 11 by Alderperson Kittleson approving the corrected amendment number two to lease with malt scoop Corporation all the person on to mayor. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I move the resolution be put upon its passage second We have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion If there is none roll call, please Bulk I Bowers I Decker I Hammond I Hannah I Heidemann I cut I Montemay or I Radke I Rindflash I Vander wheel I Versi I one woman I and born I 14 eyes Motion carries other matters authorized by law 10-41 will be referred to finance any other matters attorney McLean And ash 42 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting Those are mine. Thank you various license applications for the period ending June 30, 2011 and June 30, 2012 That will be referred to law and licensing 1043 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication from Cleo messner of the bid district Requesting permission to hold Harvest Fest on September 25, 2010 at Shplugins Riverfront. We'll be referred to ppns 1044 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a claim from Helen Feld for alleged damages to the shutter at 2305 Weedemeyer Street risk management 1045 is a committee report by the special budget subcommittee Advising of the fact that it met and research potential Savings in the 2011 but it's from various departments will be referred to the strategic fiscal planning committee 1046 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication from Brenda McBain of the Spurgen County YMCA Requesting permission to host a body pump launch on Saturday, September 11, 2010 in DeLan Park Across from the YMCA will be referred to public works 1047 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication from Irma Gutierrez requesting a no parking sign in front of her house at 1327 Pennsylvania Avenue because of safety issues at the corner of South 14th Street in Pennsylvania And that will be referred to public protection and safety. Do we have a motion to adjourn? Motion and a second to adjourn all in favor say aye opposed motion carries. Thank you everybody