 Ruel Calvo members participating in this meeting Paul Christensen John Hemelgarn present Steve Lambert absent Scott Riley is absent as well Dave Saladino you're here virtually. And Scott's here too. Yeah, but Scott's not participating in the. Oh yes. And Finney crossing. Got it right. He's a member of the audience today. Yes sir. Correct Scott. That is that is correct. David Turner is the president and chair Kelly is the president. So we have five and attendance from the DRP we have a form. Okay, staff would you like to say your zoom blurb please. Sure. So if you could, after watching this zoom meeting click on your name, just make sure that that it's showing your name, rather than a phone number. And then in person intent attendees with laptops we don't have any here except for your body so let's do that. Your mic and video settings are at the bottom of your screen and and use the chat function for zoom help or if you'd like to speak in the reactions, raise your hand and written for questions and for feedback. And you can also enable a transcript. If you'd like that. If you're on telephone press star nine to raise your hand press star six or on you. To optimize the view you can use side by side mode or you fit it to the window. Side by side mode is recommended will be sharing screens. You can click and drag the slider to adjust the size of the camera and the shared screen. And lastly, if you have a bad internet connection to turn off the video, close any browser tabs you have open computer programs or phone apps, or use your telephone for speaker and microphone. Okay. Thank you. Okay, two items on the public hearing side. That's DP zero nine dash zero one dot 23. That's for Finney crossing building a restaurant and then DP zero nine dash zero one dot 24 is also at Finney crossing that's for building f senior limit. So first up is the restaurant. At the beginning of each hearing, just following new instructions. I need to repeat if zoom crashes, the hearing will be continued to July 27 2021. The applicants if I know you both but if you would name your if you would give us your name and address for the record that would be appreciated. I'm sorry Chris Snyder with Snyder homes at 4076 Shelburne Road, Shelburne. Okay. I think with that, I'll turn over staff. All right. This is a request for the application review of the proposed 4200 square foot single story restaurant building with private dining patio and the Finney crossing urban park. Staff is recommending approval of this free application should discuss the urban park with the applicant and currently review the recommendations drafted by the half and staff. This is the first time the RV is reviewing requests. The site lot C 10 was reviewed last year but that proposal was abandoned during COVID. The app reviewed this submitted comments which are included in the packet. Let's get a good works and fire. No comment letters were received at the time of mail on that life. So, the use is a full service restaurant. It is allowed in this district under any of it. This is proposed 7251. The proposed building is anticipated to meet the height and set back requirements. Outdoor storage is proposed identified on site plan as backyard. While outdoor storage is typically prohibited. This area is contained in an architectural extension building will be buffered from Curtis Lane headway with landscaping. In the tap corner zoning district development standards related to building master and best friend design by and or discussed below in the design review. The tap corner zoning district. It includes the development of the required urban park. New development of the tap on the zoning district must offer at least five of the elements listed in WDB 41.5.3. These elements may be provided to me relatively or in or accessible to multiple buildings that are part of the single proposal. These elements listed in the slide criteria are listed in the act design review. Adder and that needs are not available in this location. So within any crossing and in the surrounding area. Though green values are not mentioned in by law, musical amount from the park will be lost when building is constructed. So, with both the urban as proposed the urban park and the restaurant are located on lock C 10. In which case the owner of the restaurant could own the urban park as well. So the zoning by law and the DRB can't regulate who owns private property. There's no minimum lock size in the tap on the zoning district. And could voluntarily consider subdividing C 10 placing the urban park in its own parcel. So that, you know, in the future, if say public ownership was an option, it might be easier facilitated. Growth management does not apply to commercial development. However, any crossings growth management score is based on the provision of an urban park discretionary firm that must summarize the state and it's made about the urban park and growth management questionnaires and demonstrate how the urban park upholds the growth management score. So the number of required spaces is between 63 and 84 depending on the type of restaurant. There are two types of food service listed in table 14 a while. Neither is defined in the by law quality restaurant is going to be a restaurant table services provider, whereas fast food restaurants which is primarily take out to go orders. So the parking chapter didn't contemplate the online word post COVID world. So, however, that we can consider designate designating parking spaces for take out online order pick up and a recommendation on that is distracted. So, because there's only two types of restaurants listed. It's likely to follow somewhere between those two and where a news is not listed in table for Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, United States was by Empire of Japan. I just needed it's it's somebody hacking it. So, in other words, this restaurant can fall somewhere between like the two screens take out and quality restaurant. So, it would really be up to it's determined by the administrator based on the similarity of the proposed use to one or more uses listed in table 14 a and the transportation engineers parking generation. Um, so bicycle parking should be anticipated not only for that use, but additional bike parking for the park. And so the table just lists those two types of restaurant and the anticipated number of the required vehicle parking spaces, the bicycle parking and long term bicycle spaces are the same for both so it's really a question of the number of vehicle parking spaces determine So for infrastructure this property will be served by municipal water sewer and underground utilities discretionary must include utility plan and neighborhood parks in compliance with WDB chapter 15. The discretionary permit must include a maintenance plan for the neighborhood and urban parks within any crossing must update the site plan for trash recycling cans for litter management compliance with WDB 64 shows no removal and storage and solid waste. The waste containers for the restaurant shall be contained in architectural extension of building per WDB 16. When fiddle heads Polina was proposed the DRB discuss private events from the urban park. The DRB recommended the discretionary permit show it through the renderings of the urban park and demonstrate how people interact with the park space when there is an is not a special event. Events that serve alcohol require fencing for DLC regulations. So the DRB should discuss the type of events that can be held in the park. And the DRB should ensure that that the only publicly accessible part of the crossing is not entirely closed off for the event is happening. Staff has drafted a recommendation about smoke odor and noise and screening. The applicant is proposing a restaurant adjacent to the hotel and the vicinity of residential apartment building. Restaurant kitchens have specialized mechanical equipment kits events, etc. The DRB can request a sound study. But this but staff is not recommending it. Because usually it's performed where the industrial or heavy commercial is adjacent to residential. So for design review. The hack recommendations are included. The hack general was satisfied with the building design and renderings. The hack provided several recommendations about the urban park. This is the main part of the crossing and so the landscaping and programming should be thoughtfully and basically designed. So the DRB and the applicant should discuss the urban park design elements propose the types of renderings, site plans, material samples that should be presented at discretionary permit. And the hack recommendations. So lean toward comfortable and inviting part of place where people can gather and visit. For landscaping, the parcel is unique. It's internal to the overall for any crossing development so traditional landscape offers don't apply. This includes a bus, the Curse Lane pedestrian path and hotel to the west share a shared driveway to the south, all the way into the east and shared parking lot in the north. At discretionary permit landscaping plan must be provided the sufficient screens the backyard storage area from that way provides ample landscaping the front yard and in the urban park. This also includes along to road frontages, the DRB should be discussed the hack recommendations about parking and seating. For out for lighting with discretionary permit must include lighting plan and clients with WVD 24. And allow higher illumination levels along with pedestrian noise and that is lighting fixtures of subject to desire. For public art discretionary permit must include amounts of precise time management. A public vote and board is recommended in the urban park. So for impact these storm recreation impact fees do not apply to commercial development transportation impact fees do not apply within crossing in exchange for the construction of separate road. The discretionary permit must include a trigger generation analysis that compares the hypothetical impact fees. So we're looking into account the overall vehicle trips of the crossing to the cost of his weapons at the road. And that's, that's all I have the staff report. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Okay, going to turn it over to Chris and Andy. Can you walk us through the project. Can they put the boards up. That's fine. I can also share for people on zoom. So they can see. I can share. Yes. Okay. Look for those and if person Andy, if you can get ready to show us your boards, walk us through the project. Whatever fidelity you can to the building, the use the park, what you envision there. And, and then if you could address the proposed conditions of approval, and if you have, if there's anything in there that you object to what you want to talk about. Okay. Well, thank you all very much for your time tonight associated with these two projects that were coming forward and I think I do want to take just one moment to identify that we did submit these at the same time, sort of cognizant of a comment, I believe that the board has brought up previously about understanding sort of what this middle section was going to be at the same time, so that they weren't pieces that we were addressing sort of the overall scope. And so I just wanted to acknowledge that the idea of the presentation of both of these on the same night was for that purpose so that we could see how the really what I call the final two larger parcels that need to be that can be developed within the only piece that is left undetermined at this point is building a which is to the southeast or south of building F, and that is something that we will come in the future, but other than that. That we did want to identify like that that middle core and how all these pieces are coming in time together. So I want to thank you for sort of giving us that idea and we wanted to present it that way. I just focused on feedback that we received from you in the hack over the last several months during some of the other applications that in meetings that we've gone through. And I believe that what we've done here today is presenting a an application for building age and for the heart and building F that does include a lot of those items that people have concerns about. And so hopefully we have addressed those and if there are other comments, we certainly will take those and listen to those and provide and take that feedback. The for building H and the park in specific. We have. There's been the park itself is slightly modified from what it was on our previous applications, essentially to identify that the restaurant space had to find a little bit different layout along the southern edge of the property. We still have maintained the arcane walkways and landscaping areas and also the seeming areas along Holland Lane. We do believe that the park, and I'm going to focus a little bit on the park here. The first is, you know, inviting and encouraging for people to utilize and to walk through both from the hotel, also from the healthy living building, and also for the residents who live in the apartments and also in the home. And there are access points, really on three of the four sides of the park. From the western side the hotel does have a bike path that goes along the side of the hotel that it would connect to the park from the healthy living building there is a crosswalk we did modify and improve that area. So that you could walk from that area across to the park. And then, again, at the intersection of Holland and market street, there is crosswalks that bring you to the park, and then also along on Lane if you're a resident in Finney crossing you could walk the sidewalk from your residents directly down in entering into the park area. There is, you know, quite a bit of landscaping, hard skating in some seeding areas associated with the park. The seeding areas are primarily on the eastern edge along Holland Lane, and then some small bench areas on the western, I guess it's northwestern of the upper arc, or the northern arc. And so there are some spaces there for people to sit in and relax and then there's also a larger open space in the center of the green for people to utilize how they want to plan on utilizing it. We do plan on maintaining the property and in a good condition and it is, you know, a central component to the overall neighborhood and are excited to be allowing everybody, whether it be patrons of the restaurant or the stores or the hotel or the residents of Finney crossing. So there is open space there, and we have designed it so that somebody could go and hang out in there or do with play, you know, throw a frisbee if they wanted to. It's not a giant space, but it is a pretty decent sized park area. So we don't have any plans to close off the park at any time at this point with any specific special events. There, you know, could be in the future, but we are not asking and not getting permitted with as such. We are planning to leave it as an open park space. It is planned as a restaurant. The plan is for the restaurant railroad in Maine to be located in that space and they have designed and reviewed and approved the current layout, along with the that includes both the interior and exterior layout, which is to the north of the parking walkway. They're excited to be locating here in Williston and they want to take advantage of, you know, a great Williston place of business. There will be some type of barrier or short wall adjacent to their seating area because they do serve alcohol, and so we assume that there will be some restrictions associated with liquor control associated with that. And then there is parking for the restaurant as identified in the staff report, you know, there is parking along Paula Lane, and then there is parking along parking along the north in the parking lot to the north of the building as well. And then there also would be shared parking with building Jay to the south of the space. The main entrance to the restaurant is going to be located along Holland Lane in the vestibule you can see that area right there. And then so you can access it either from the Holland lot lane side or also from the parking lot to the north. So that would be qualified as the vestibule but also have access points there. And we're here today, you know, we have been to the hack and are happy with the comments and, you know, interested in getting comments from the DRB about the design of the building. Or as we are free application here in any, any comments or thoughts would be appreciated is as in with that. That's a reason that's a, those are my general comments about the application in terms of the staff notes in recommendations. I don't remember seeing anything that was of concern we do understand that the discretionary permit application will address the public works memo in the fire fire department memo. And we will provide samples and renderings at discretionary permit. And I think that is the comments that I would have regarding the staff recommendations. Okay, any other questions. I'm sure there will be. Can you bring up a elevation of building. I'd like to hear Chris and Andy. Just give us a little, a little narrative on the building. Yeah, just there you go. Walk us through what design pain and trying to get to and look here, trying to accomplish. Yeah, so this is the southern view the upper actually both of those are southern view of the building. And obviously we're trying to, there's a couple of things going on here. One is that there is outdoor seating and outdoor areas there. And so we are showing those areas and want to encourage the connection between the open space and the building. So we have incorporated a roof over that both from a glazing standpoint from sun protection for within side, and then also, you know, potentially, maybe there's some outdoor seating in a rain, maybe tight close up to the building. I will say that in terms of the use of the interior space, almost all the seating area is on the southern end of the building. And so all of the seating for the patrons would be on that side of the building, which are looking out over the their outdoor seating and then the further adjacent to the park. I'm not showing on this is rendering and I realized it's a rendering and where we are in the process but you had mentioned some type of wall separating the patio and the public space. Yeah, that's a that's a forthcoming. Yeah, that's forthcoming and it's one of the items that the architects haven't really considered. But we are going to have probably a seating wall, you know, or it has to be a certain height. And I can't remember what the height is for the, the control. Okay. But that is something that we wouldn't have to provide. Yeah, in terms of layout it is shown on the conceptual site plan that Wagner Hodgson did so they plan for it in terms of layout, but there's no detail on there yet whether it's one of the brasses on one side but I think it's Chris said, we need to be something a little more rigid or permanent than simply vegetation. Yeah. Yeah, so I, I would just ask that you kind of consider and I know you will because you guys really do thoughtful designs but the context of the overall thing crossing and some of the materials that have been incorporated. And, and, and I am, I view very favorably the durability of the materials that have been put in place. And so, so, you know, one of the things that I like about what you've done is I anticipate walking through Finney crossing in 10 years and not seeing real signs of deterioration. Yeah. I agree. Well, we're on this. The other thing I would comment on is, and I have to say I think the hack did a lot of our work. Yeah, they did. And they're not here but I want to just publish this I appreciate that. But you know what's, what's missing on there is that is that wall which is fine and I mean that's the regulation but it's also an opportunity. Because it creates an edge and it's at the edges that you start to kind of get interesting things. So it's not only is it the container. Yeah, for the, for the patio but it's also a living edge of especially with that arching walk that's on there to make it an active piece that directs the focus back and increase an edge to the wall. So it's a fun thing and depending on the terms used it'll only benefit us. I agree with you on that. The question is, depending on how high this wall has to be, the wall doesn't have to be solid right. It could be it could be. Some metal. Yeah, with vertical bars giving you a look through. Right. You know that doesn't have to be the same on the entire length. That's right. Right, it could be sections of different pieces of something. We're going to come here with a bench in it and then there's a fence and yeah, there was asking to seal those nice windows there, that they have a high wall, you know it's going to kind of cut the work out of the. Yeah, I think he mentioned the seating wall. Well, because I'll have to ask people because he was mentioned. Doesn't have to be that high. Yeah, it can be incorporated. We certainly can certainly address that and they have some mix of parts and pieces there I think that I agree with you, john and that having some different components not just a steady one solid piece will also be attractive. Both from the inside and from the outside, and from the park. And I kind of sort of think like when you're the park you don't also want to see people sitting at their tables either. So, you know, it goes both ways. It's nice to know they're there. Yes. That's right. So do those doors that I see on the side of those open up to the kind of creates the loonings type of. That's the plan. And in terms of the architectural, you know statement, you know that is a tall wall there, but it's, but it's broken up. I think it's a, you know, it's a kind of a false front of the building and then slopes back. If you look at the side elevations, but you can see how one it's allowing for some signage but also allows for some aesthetic changes between the lower section in the upper section. And I think the roof break is a good detail. And you want to pull up the side elevation please. Yeah, thank you. Okay. Yeah, so that's the elevation that you'd see from Holland Lane, as you're driving north on Holland Lane, just after the intersection. You know, so it's out of membrane roof and that's really just a paragraph. Yes, with mechanical equipment being hidden. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. And then there would be the, you know, I think what's interesting about this design is the vessel fuel, you know, really has a very tall feeling to it, but it also creates a real differential difference to that aesthetic and like, that's where I go in and then creates a nice entry point. They draw it draw them in different materials. Yes. So it's distinctive. Yeah, entrances. Yeah. It does. I think this is nice. Of course, I would say you the baseball analogy music and the big fat fastballs here on a restaurant. What's the side that we're in the kitchen needs parking lot. That's a nasty slide. And I would say that it's not as nasty as it could be. No, no, no, no. I appreciate you actually having that. Yeah, that could be a very difficult spot here, especially where it's where people are pulling up and many people are going to be approaching the building. That's great. And that's the kitchen. And that's the kitchen. So where's all this, where's the service entrance and all the deliveries. So that's on the side, you can see on that right hand side, that last part, that's the service entrance point is over there on that. I'm glad you painted that. Yeah, this is a difficult building to put in the middle. Yes. I was going to hide the snow when winter gets. We're going to have the snow. The parking lot, it's kind of like, it's kind of difficult for the guys to follow that out. I think there's going to be enough space to the on the western side of the parking lot that there will be allowed. You know, there's enough snow storage area on that western side of the parking lot. Yeah, kind of on the northern, yeah, western side where you see some of those. Okay, so you're not going to put it in whatever that thing, that thing. I don't think we're going to be able to do it there because of the visibility. I was going to say that's seemingly a big chunk of land kind of what's going on here. Yeah, the good news is is we're, you know, we're managing the parking lot to the north for apartment building to, and this and we'll be managing this, the same company will be managing the snow removal for the entire parcel. How are they managing the building? They're pushing it to the south. Yeah. Can you just go to page one? Tree on the right. Is that on the wrong? The way it goes in the walkway, it looks like it could be halfway down the walkway. I think it may have gotten added. It's maybe. It looks good there. It wouldn't be in that area, but I don't see it there. Yeah, just in order to put the center area sort of open, the landscaping's been kept sort of to the east and to the west and a little bit along the south. Yeah, the architect blocks another tree there. That's a bit for sure. And it shouldn't be. I mean, if you want to have an open area where you can play frisbee or something. Yeah. And this is a preliminary application. Yes, judge those for sure. Oh, there's somebody. Dave Saladina. Mr. Saladina. Yeah, Mr Kelly. Just a very quick question on the, is that fireplace turned, is it bi-directional? Is it, it looks like there's opportunity to see the flames from outside as well? It looks, yeah, I think it is. That's a cool feature. Oh, see floor plan please. Yeah, it does look like it is on the. Yeah, if you go. There's a sheet of the floor plan. Yeah, there you go right there. In that center. Is that a sign I see inside the vestibule? Yes. I'm sure all those signs are dealt with, but we'll see a master sign plan will be discussing that I'm sure. Yes. One other question on. Number seven under the, the recommendations, there was a, there was one request to do a study of the cost of the, of constructing Zephyrone compared to the trips generated. And it, I'm just curious what prompted that, that requirement. Yeah, so that's a, that's a, I can speak to that that's a longstanding piece. So we, Zephyrone was one of the named grid streets that was the select board had agreed was if you constructed it, you could utilize an in-kind contribution on the impact fee. So you've been doing this with each, each submission. It's not, okay, it's not just unique to this one. Okay, that makes sense. Rebuilding every house, every apartment has been going against that payment. Got it. Yeah, I guess I just never, never noticed it before. So yeah, thank you. So the impact fee is based upon the PICAR trip generation. I mean, this is probably actually one of the easier conditions to meet because we know what the trip generation is that's being tracked. Not only by the town, but also by activity, when you went to the select board, assuming they approved, and you know what the cost of Zephyrone was, and you believe that someone would have approved it. You know, to draw against in terms of the trip ends. And I know at one point we did the math. So factors into the impact fee and then you do an offset based on your cost of instruction. Yeah. Given the cost of construction, you'd never hit it with the number of trip generator with the trip generation that's being proposed would be like twice as what it would be maybe more. It wasn't a problem to ever reach that reach that threshold. Yeah, a salad, you know, any further questions? That's it for me. Thank you. Other members. Considering keeping the park and the restaurant the same piece of property and I'm going to consider subdeleting it or. Yeah, that's the plan is to keep it as is. We brought up one thing, you know, on the recommendations. There's one note about a public bulletin board, and we're it would spend an interesting discussion about public bulletin boards and whether or not we want them or don't want them in our perspective is that in today's world that we don't want them. Apple. Number is a sweet to me. Also item out by that. Not want to consider a commemorative plaque because all that does is create a potential flashpoint for one group or another to decide whatever's on that plaque is against their beliefs finds whatever. And not want to see a plaque in that park, other than the plaque that says space available or something. And someone will argue with that probably. It's similar to the idea of public art. Public art is worse than trying to choose colors. Nobody's not going to like them. Other people are going to love it. That's right. Okay. It is the public art component. I mean I know that's one of the nine criteria that one of the five of nine that you can select as is the urban park. It seems that putting the public art in the urban part is kind of going to the one. Yeah, I mean I don't think we're planning to do art yet. You know that's not one of, we're not, we don't need it to meet one of the five or nine. I think it may organically grow into something like that but I've, you know, our, our preferences to allow that to organically grow that way versus planning it. I think I just, it's in here as a recommendation. Yes, as is I think the water feature. It's a recommendation. I mean I like both of those I think those are both great things that they're done properly. Yes, you have to be very careful with those. There was a nice water feature at the top of church. Yes, last three weeks. So we have a Bellagio water. By the way, but in the water. The water feature is in Vermont are harder to maintain and they tend to break down is what I've seen over time. So I guess my comment is not to say I'm supportive of that or not but to say I think I still think these are good recommendations and suggestions for that. But you know, I'd be taking a good look at this part. I think it's smaller than it was initially made me go when I first got on board. And it's, it's in a slightly different location, but less prominent spot that was initially. So I do think it's appropriate to kind of in this condensed area to really, really put some amenities in there. I would, you know, I totally understand that and I would say that one of the things that we propose doing is creating boundaries on a creating streetscape hardscapes, making it really usable, rather than just a giant open space. So I think that's one thing that's really beneficial of having smaller spaces, and we have smaller spaces all around the neighborhood, and it's interesting to see what gets used and what doesn't. It's one of the things that we've already done. Give us a quick synopsis of what gets used and what doesn't garden garden areas get used like by some of the apartment buildings. So those are tenant oriented, but then the smaller, like, I do see people sitting at like the benches, like on the at the intersection of still water and Holland Lane. Like a little arc, and I do see people, you know, at least walking through there or sitting down outside during a nice day, not overwhelming numbers, but they're there. And so I think those things work better than some of these larger spaces. So it's a little, a little nook, a little, a little quaint. And they go there and they read a book or a phone or whatever but a little sense of privacy. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do you have any members anything else. I like the design of the building. Well, they still be in Essex to really have both locations. I'm not sure that they determine what they're going to do yet, whether going to be both or one or the other. I mean, well, we know they're coming here, but I like the design of the building. I think it brings a little character with what they just did over there to here in looks. Yeah, it's kind of, yeah. Good, John. I would just reiterate, I think the comment was in here about the bike park. Yes, I shouldn't be limited to the manuals required here because I think that's the place that you want to improve your bikes. This is a place where that's probably used not only the park but probably the restaurant. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Dave Saladino. I'm good. Members of the audience. Okay, final words, Chris. Okay. Thank you. We are going to close the zero nine dash zero one dot 23 at 751. Okay. Next up is DP zero nine dash zero one dot 24. This is senior living proposed senior living facility and building age. And this is another pre app as a reminder. And for some reason zoom crashes. The hearing will be continued on July 27 2021. And for the record, Chris and Andy if you would state your name and address please. Yeah, Chris Snyder Snyder homes 4076 Shelburne. Indie row number of Dickinson 14 more strides. This is a request for the application. You have a proposed senior living facility. Staff recommends approval of the three application, but only in the year we carefully reduce the draft of recommendations, especially number one about the views. The year we may choose to continue to hear in August and more time is needed to discuss the proposed for request additional information from you. This is the first time the derby interference request. Any passing of the length of her name is really the most recently. The hack did review this proposal and their recommendations are included. And as did public works and the fire department. And the no public comment letters were received at the time of mail out. So the proposed building is anticipated to meet the height and set back requirements for the platforms of the district. Her WPB 41.5.4 building height can be increased from 36 feet. Where structure parking is provided. It's 30% or greater and his parking requirements is in structure, resulting in commensurate reduction in surface parking loading areas. However, this incentive is intended to make it possible to build three or depending on the rate of the site for story buildings that have diverse attractive. No outdoor sales or storage are proposed. In the top corners on the district development standards related to building massing and pedestrian friendly design by and discuss below on the design review. This proposal is anticipated to uphold the five of nine criteria discretionary permit. Any crossings by criteria are listed in the hack design review. The discretionary permit must show how views to the adder on that where it exists to be used as a feature of the proposed development. This does not mean that you just must be left unattended. It does mean that developments must find a way to use this natural asset. So the allowed use senior living versus residential. The year we must decide that the services provided are sufficient for the project to qualify. The DRB may continue and request additional information from the applicant about amenities. If the year besides the proposed facility is a residential apartment building, not commercial use, then residential density and growth management allocation will apply. Pre-application recommendations are guidelines, not an approval or denial, a pre-application to be agreed to decide on what information is needed to write findings of that and the conclusions of that discretionary permit. So, all uses under any NAICS 62 healthcare and social systems are allowed in the district. That is NAICS code defines senior living without nursing care as residential and personal care services. Without onsite nursing care facilities for one, the elderly or other persons who are unable to fully care for themselves and or to the elderly or other persons who do not desire to live independently. So, typically for room, board, supervision and assistance in daily living such as housekeeping services. WDV Chapter 46 defines a dwelling or dwelling unit as being a building, typically a single family home for a separate space within a larger building, typically an apartment, a home or a life that contains complete housekeeping facilities for one person. So, the applicants proposed a senior living facility following services, 74 units each with a complete kitchen, bathroom, washer, grand, large lobby, community room, fireplace, entertainment center, library, meeting area, individual work spaces for either semi-private or community collaboration, private dining room with outdoor patio will be available for small groups of residents or family events. Fitness center or private room for classes or physical therapy sessions, staff and onsite manager, concierge staff about eight hours today and 24-hour emergency on-call staff, laundry and linen services, food service, seasonal produce through a local CSA delivery of individual meals from local restaurants. So, a recent project that's similar that was approved, the DRV approved Williston Place, a senior living facility at 422 Blair Park Road in 2016. Williston Place has a dining room with a commercial kitchen providing one meal a day for residents. So, a commercial kitchen is not proposed to build a meeting, therefore no meals for residents to be prepared and served on-site. Residents will need to prepare their own meals in the unit or seek meals from outside sources to take out for them. Williston Place is the only senior living facility approved under the unified development bylaw where the use is expressed as in the ICS police. The other senior living facilities in Williston, Eagle Press, Falcon Manor, Whitton Hill were approved and constructed prior to the 2009 adoption of the industrial and bylaw. So, there is a chart on the table included that illustrates the similarities and differences between Williston Place, senior living, and the proposed senior living project. So, growth management would only be equitable if the DRV writes a pre-application recommendation that the proposed use is residential. Residential projects that complete pre-application in 2021 are eligible for growth management allocation in March of 2021. Parking app and building A3 consisting residential building, share parking lots and access on the market street, separate road, and hauling lane. A traffic study should be provided that compared to the number, this is the same thing we talked about, the number of vehicle trips within Finney Crossings across the construction side of the road. This is a vehicle vehicular parking. A parking lots proposed at the corner of the market street and separate road near the senior living or the share and primary entrance. This building and parking lot arrangement is unavoidable because of the development of transition lines. No buildings are allowed under development. Parking spaces provided will depend on use residential versus commercial, senior living, generate parking rates, 74 or 130 parking spaces is a starting point. Both a minimum and maximum that can be increased or reduced for various mechanisms, including shared parking. At discretionary permit, a shared parking analysis for building A3 must be provided. The DRB and the applicant should discuss accessible parking. Senior living facility may require more accessible parking than other residential or commercial uses. The DRB may find that development needs more, fewer accessible off-screen parking spaces are required by Table 14B and so provided that the federal A3 requirements are upheld. The applicant should strongly consider providing in-trip facilities for employees within the building, rather than sharing. The applicant should also consider providing more short-term, long-term bicycle storage than required by line. On site infrastructure, compliance is anticipated, but property will be served by the school or the sewer. Vehicle and pedestrian circulation must comply with Table 14B.2. The discretionary permit must include plans and specifications for litter management, snow storage, and solid waste. For density transfer development rates, the density standards would apply to the DRB determines that the proposed use is residential and not commercial. If determined residential, any crossing will need to seek out a transfer development rights because the current density analysis would not allow for 74 new units. The most recent density analysis can be found in the staff report for DT-09-01-18, when building A3 is modified slightly to accommodate another one of the units. For outdoor lighting, discretionary permit must include a lighting plan, plans for WD-24. The DRB can allow higher illumination levels of long-distance lighting. For signs of discretionary permit, the master sign plan must be amended for impact fees. If the use is determined residential, then school and residential, then school and recreation impact fees apply. If addressing is exempt from transportation impact fees, if the total fees for vehicle trips is less than the cost of construction is overlaid. So, for design review, in general, the HAC was pleased with the buildings overall and some materials, articulation, and pitch group elements. There are some concerns, particularly about the port for shared design and the yard for green space, the recommendations are included. So, the one challenge is the belt release, because no buildings and tall trees are prohibited under the transmission lines. Therefore, buildings brought to the street along Alman and Market Street, while Zephyr Road, Market Street frontage is dominated by a parking lot. The DRB and applicant should discuss the green space yard between the building and parking lot. The fire department would like a drivable surface so the ladder truck can access all sides of the building. A drivable surface, perhaps a new group could function as a walking path for residents. Combined with landscaping, shade trees and seeding in this area is the country of green assets, this new building solely and mini-crossing residents provided it is designed and green-scale. Building A3 across the parking lot does not have any green space for residents. The applicant should consider enhancing this yard space in a manner that promotes neighborhoodness for any green-crossing. The landscaping and street trees, the traditional landscape buffer requirements, don't apply to internal property lines and mini-crossing. Street trees would be required along the three road partages, Zephyr Road, Market Street and Hall and Lane. The north side of the building is the yard, green space and the property line is anticipated through the parking lot. The applicant should consider enhanced front yard landscaping between sidewalks and the building as well as enhanced landscaping, neighborhood part for the north. So the DRB must decide if a type III or type IV buffer is more appropriate and edit recommendation number two. And they're part of recommendations and motion. Thanks. Okay. Thank you, Melinda. I'm going to turn it over to Chris and Andy, and walk us through the project and address the biggest issue, which is, is this a residential building or is it a senior living? So with that, I'll turn it over to you. Perfect. Well, thanks again for your time tonight. This has been a fun project for us to work on in incorporating residential and integrating this building within the overall property and is exciting for us to be presenting tonight. I think it's really important and maybe you could scroll down I think one more. Well, I guess it doesn't have to be right now. But I think the, you know, I think it's really important to acknowledge the fact that, you know, what we have really tried to do here is design a building that has a street presentation along Market Street and Holland Lane. And you'll notice that the building is is pretty close to those areas and we do feel very happy about how that looks along both market and Holland Lane. There is a drop off zone. Ruth, in the corner, or share or whatever you call them on the eastern side of the building. And so that is an important component to this piece. And we do understand from the hack, the discussion with the hack about potentially making some revisions to the aesthetic of that. It was something that we are working on. There is a bit of a challenge in that we're trying to maintain some use to the west towards the mountains. But at the same time, having it as a height that allows for emergency vehicles underneath it. So when you, which is sort of why the architects came up with the design that sort of reminds me of the Washington National Airport entry cover points. It's pretty simple and clean, but allows you to use over and from below. So we're certainly working on that and going to try to address and improve that one view. You know, it's important to note that on most of these units, we do have porches. And I think that's an important component and also helps make it more feel rather than a true commercial building, have a bit of more of a residential field. And we've heard that about some of the other more recent apartment buildings we built at Finney crossing that they wanted to see a bit more of a residential component or aesthetic to the outside. There are there is open space plan for the property. There is on the north side of the building. There's a if you go to the site plan. It might be the easiest. One more. There you go. You can see to the north side of building F there's an outdoor seating area, and also some quite a bit of open space and some walkways that are connecting to areas to the parking lot but also connecting you over to Finney. And I think it's a really nice, well, it's pretty large open space because of the shape of the building and how it's oriented. We have worked through the access to the underground parking. And that always is a bit of a bugger for us as we're trying to figure that out but in this particular case it worked out pretty well and allows us to have more of that open space on the north side. As noted in our application and also on the staff notes, you know, we are planning to have quite a bit of common area spaces and I think this goes to identify the differences between this building and other buildings that have been constructed at Finney crossing and changes the scope of it. And we are going to have living room spaces kitchen and eating area. These are all within the common spaces of the first floor of the building. There's going to be other smaller gathering spaces, a multi-purpose room, work pods, pet cleaning areas, gym space, a mail and package room, and then also a staffing office. So, you know, I think those pieces sort of add to the overall utilization and use of the building to be more of the senior housing building than a true of residential or building. There's also, we're planning for two elevators in this building, which is something unique and again goes to the use. And in terms of parking, as we talked about, there is going to be parking underneath the building. So this would be underground parking there, their plan to have one parking spot per unit. Sometimes it gets tight on that in there, but there would, the plan is to have one parking spot per unit and then there is going to be parking to the east of the building underneath the Belko easement and then to the north underneath the Belko easement. Those areas are shaded in darker gray. Meals staff noted, you know, a requirement of, you know, one meal per day. IE a commercial kitchen. And we feel that we can, we are willing to and, and able to commit to the commercial kitchen, and we are working on a on the providing in FTP would be providing providing a description of one meal per day. And that is something that we would be able to provide in the had an idea that maybe we might be able to have one of the joining restaurants that are on the property provide a catering meal and I don't know if that's something that's allowed. If they had a choice that that commercial kitchen could be the provider of the meal. So it's an idea that we can certainly work through, but we are willing to enable to commit that we will provide one meal per day. We did request the one difference from the staff recommendations and what our application is is we would like to staff this at eight hours per day with a 24 on call staffing. And that's one line item that we feel is definitely still providing services to the tenants and having someone there. Eight hours a day, but we would, we'd like to ask and see what the BRB perspective is on that if that's considered, you know, meeting the requirements for this classification. That's, you know, in terms, did I answer enough questions about the use or provide enough information about the use to to the DRV description again. Yeah. Or I answer that question. Okay. So the code today is residential and personal care services without onsite nursing care facilities for the elderly, or other persons who are unable to fully care for themselves. The care typically includes room board supervision and assistance and daily living such as housekeeping services. So I assume, correct me if I'm, if I'm assuming, if I'm assuming this incorrectly, but I'm assuming that the staff would make arrangements if somebody or help make arrangements if somebody is looking for assistance with housekeeping. Yeah, that would be concierge service. Yeah, yeah, I think we can do that. And then the biggie is, is the food. Yes. And, and you just, you just answered that to my satisfaction. I'm, I'll be, I'll be frank, I like your creativity Andy, but that to me doesn't satisfy the intent of this is to get, you know, is to have the option of preparing take out from a local restaurant. That's, that's not, that's not the spirit of what's the code says in my opinion. Go ahead. I was getting a lot of schools don't necessarily run the road group programs anymore they might have it catered whether it's a restaurant or. I wasn't just getting a take out was intended to be something more than I, I four choice of words on my card. I interpret that. Okay, so with with that I'm going to turn it over to the board for questions. I'm going to start this time with David Saladino so you don't have to do the little raised and simple. My only only question I had was, and I noticed it's still pre app but kind of the back of the house stuff do you see what do you have a sense where kind of trash and linen deliveries and food deliveries will happen. So in terms of trash, we had proposed to locate the trash within the building in the garage. We know that the, we have done that in other locations and in this particular instance we think it makes a lot of sense to have the trash located within the building. And so that would be one in terms of deliveries you know I would assume that they'd either access it through their garage. The building footprint is quite large, because there's so much common space that is larger than what we've seen in our other buildings and so there, there's actually quite a bit of space underneath the building. So that would allow for a delivery truck or some, you know, a smaller delivery truck to go in there and access that. So from a linen services or something like that that's where they go and pick that up. How many spaces. Does the layout currently accommodate. I think it has 74 plus bike storage, plus a wood shop. There was some storage areas. There's quite a bit of square footage down in the garage that allows for some of those other other pieces to be used. Anything else Dave. Yeah, that's it. So the RV here and Wilson. My only question would be on your DC or some of the units. In your contract, are you going to restrict the certain age groups. Since it's going to be senior. Yeah, I think we have to restart. It has to be, but it doesn't. I don't think it actually has to be everybody in there. And I think that we've had this discussion and I can't remember where we landed on it, but as long as we're providing the services. I'm not sure that it has to be rated at 55 plus. That's my understanding. But I can write it. Yeah, for both arguments. You need like if someone's married to someone who's 55 and they're under 55. I don't know what compliance needs, but we certainly can work on that and that's a good question and we can clarify what that is. To comment on design review business about the drivable surface. This may be the issue where you want to look at putting in the panels that go on the grass that allow our people to go over without having to put in concrete. I'm going to look at this, because I'm saying that would meet their requirement and not suddenly have a big impermeable space, you know, right there in the center of the Yeah, the you. Yeah, you know, I think we certainly there's a long, there's several items that the fire department has requested and our intention is to go and meet with them. We have some questions on their review and we have some questions and some concerns that and we want to work through those with them. You know, one of the things to note about this building is just like all these buildings is there are there's going to be sprinkler systems throughout the building fire alarm systems throughout the building and So our real preference is not to interrupt the open space with a path either concrete or even the plastic graded systems. Believe it or not, once they're in place and the lawn's growing. You won't even know it's there. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah, we've seen people's been drive on it doesn't sink into the mud. Yeah. I don't know if it's like a pile or something like that. We've got them in a few places that should be causing. Yeah. Yeah. You're required to do fire drill some sort of like this. Question. Yes, you are a nursing. I don't know, I mean, I don't know. I'm playing on asking like that. Yeah, because you know, it's not that easy to do it's to get all those folks out of the building and they don't like doing it in the middle of the night again. Right. Right. It's an Ohio. John. Yeah, I got a couple. One, this is an interesting discussion. And you know what it reminds me of it reminds me of when we were asked to define what a historic barn is, you know, be asked to find what made to senior living and what doesn't know because there's no really clear definition in here. And, you know, and I have a feeling that you said before when you asked your questions of these are my personal things. I'm not I'm from my own personal experience or my life of watching other people that I know being in one of these facilities. I don't know if there's an industry standard of what, what makes this and I feel like we're being asked to kind of decide that it's a little odd. Having said that, there's a couple things that I would, I would think, and I think the meals is really one of them for a number of reasons. The folks here don't eat as well as it should. And when you've got a meal preparation facility, it means you probably have a dietitian on staff, and they're probably choosing their meals. And you can keep track of what they're eating. I know it's very helpful with my dad to be able to kind of look back on the last month and see how many times he had dessert and whether that corresponded to his insulin issues. Those kinds of things. And so that's why I think that, you know, folks are in here because they need assistance with some of these basic life style pieces. So I think that in my mind, serving where the facility has control over what's being served and what people are making, because some people, you know, they get depressed or whatever they don't, they don't even, they don't, they don't make them meals. And then, you know, three days, three meals a day, they're not eating one. So I think that that is in my mind, really important. The parking raises the parking underneath the building looks a lot like all the other apartment buildings that you put in a thing for us, which makes me go the needle pushes the need a little bit towards residential and not senior living because I'm not sure how many of what percentage of the people in this building are going to have cars or how many, how many parking spaces you have compared to units. I didn't catch that maybe it was in here. One to one is was the answer. Is that is that a standard for senior living. I mean, I know that's what you were doing for all the residential apartment. The residential apartment buildings have a one and a half to 1.75. I think it's even, I think it depends on what time it needs to build. Oh no, one to one, it's about one to one for underneath the building and then this surface parking was the additional. Right. And that's what I was looking for. Yes. The, then the last, you know, then there's the whole thing about whether the staff is on call or not. I'm, again, I'm not going to have a strong opinion on that other than as a consumer. If I've got the exact same facilities and one's got 24 hours and one's got eight hours and I'll call I'm going to go. And the last piece is, can you find me or you put the site. And it's one of the things I think we're being asked to decide on or discuss is the landscaping buffer that the open space building. From a, I'm looking at the sidewalks and on an apartment building from the parking lot to the building you're going to want fairly direct sidewalk to people are going to go in the building and they want to get back to their house or whatever. My experience with senior living spaces though is that the residents want to go out and take a little walk. They don't want the shortest route they don't they don't mind if there's a little bit of a meander to the thing there's a nice landscaping, they can look the flowers and place you know where they can plant three there, or my dad has watermelons, but you know that they can plant some stuff. And if there's a really easy to find loop, it gets them back where they started. So this is just a walk that they do three some people are going to do it three times a day. I mean, in my mind, that's going to be something that says this is a senior living space, more than an apartment building. But again, these are kind of nebulous pieces that are my own personal opinions and I go back to my original statement which is, I doubt that that's in any kind of the definition anywhere. I really like some help with what the, what the definition is. And I'm not going to, I'm not suggesting that we continue this or anything but I think I'd like a little more guidance somewhere, somebody by the time we get. Thank you john members of the audience, which I believe are limited to Scott and Michael you have anything for the board. Pete I'm all set. He stopped. Yeah, I'll set. Okay. So DRB members. There was a seed planted by staff for us to consider continuance of this application. And I want to take the temperature of the board members, if you think that that is necessary and let me start with Mr salad. You know, in an ideal world it would be great, you know, like a posting on, you know, on the planners lists serve to see how other communities are defined residential versus your living that would be a helpful bit of information. But I also feel like it, you know, to john's point this probably will come down to kind of personal, you know, got gut feeling. Yeah, I do if I if I could if I could just ask Chris of maybe a partially loaded question but if, you know, if we choose to deliberate you know close and deliberate or not deliberate but but develop recommendations. And we, we determined this is a residential use. Will this stay, will you still be focused on senior living going forward even though you'd have to go through growth management or would you rethink the project as more of kind of all read just a normal residential apartment building. But we wouldn't. And you don't have to answer I'm just curious. No, we would remain our focus is on the senior housing projects. Yeah, yep. Okay, okay. And I guess I'm all I'm asking loaded questions I guess the other one if if this if that determination was hinging on, you know, hiring a cook to come in one day a week. Is that something that it sounds like that's kind of that's off the table that's not really something you're worth considering, even if that's kind of the decision deciding factor here. I think what we're, if we look at the recommendations that were provided by staff. There's really. There's four right in item number one. And for us item a which is the 24 hour on say staffing in our request. It was eight hours per day 24 hours on call that. I guess we're looking for the DRB to say, does the eight hours per day in the 24 on call satisfy this and I CS 62 3312. If it does. Great. If you say no, you have to do the 24 hour staffing. I think we're going to accept that piece. The commercial kitchen providing at least one on site meal per day. We're saying, okay to that laundry and linen service. We're saying okay to that. And the indoor and outdoor community spaces. We have actually already designed a lot of those spaces in here in so that we're accepting of those items. Okay, well that that simplifies things for us. It does. Okay, so with that clarification. I really wanted, I'm taking the temperature of close the hearing and go into a deliberative session or continue. And I think David Saladino is close, close the hearing. I took my end or you already took your hand. Close. Yeah, Paul. Yep. I'm on the same page as well so we have consensus on that. Is there anything else. The DRB members want to ask or raise at this point. Hearing none. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Pete. One, one question for a staff actually on to a condition to a. Is it a shall provide the landscape buffer I didn't quite follow it said because this is an internal property. You know, with road friends on each side, are they required to provide a three or four type planting or is that a is that a request. I had to ask about that was as well. Normally, you've got your street trees and there you have street trees you're not required to provide a landscape buffer but I didn't know if that recommendation was focused on where the park, excuse me, the parking is adjacent to those streets which really wouldn't apply to market street, or is it around the entire perimeter where you might have the building adjacent to the street as well. So include everything or is it, is that more focused on screening the parking place. Well it says should consider enhanced front yard landscaping between the sidewalks in the building, as well as enhanced landscaping. I mean, I think that probably came out of the hack. I'm not entirely sure. So, but I don't. I don't believe that's a fire. This entire site is a single parcel. Yes, I mean, the entire, including all the residential areas in the garden. No, sorry, it's not a single part. But they're all I'm sorry it's a single development so the internal lines between those lots were saying differently don't require a landscape buffers. I guess they're talking about the recommendations are referring to you along where you have along the street furniture is between the sideline building, calling for enhanced landscaping. The hack or the regulations, the hack or the regulations. And I actually am not sure if this came from the hack or I don't think the regulations require it. I think street trees are required. Yes, that was really the basis for my question as well and sitting here when you mentioned that the hack had brought it up I think they may have made a comment regarding trying to provide some screening or some sense of privacy for the the porches in the balconies that are at street level, trying to do something to separate or give a little bit of privacy to those so that may have been where that was coming from as opposed to the whole landscape buffer but you know maybe doing something at least to separate the sidewalk from those porches or balconies are at street level. And so this is where sort of design review sort of gets merged into landscaping recommendations, so I think that I think those recommendations are coming from the hack. It's not strictly speaking the requirement to provide that with the street furniture. This is just preline right. Yeah, this means that as we get a little closer. We can basically revisit that. You know, whether how many how many plants supposed to have or not. Right. Just want to make sure. Okay. Yeah, I mean, we are not going to, we are not going to make you do something on the plantings that's not supported by it. So we will take that under advisement for liberation. Maybe make sure that it's clear. We'll probably reward that. Yeah, we'll be. I mean, honestly, as I read through this yesterday or whenever I look at this, I was thinking that perhaps the Velco easement was considered a separate lot or something that was in the landscape. I thought maybe on this property next to it was the best I could come up with. I'm not saying it's very good. Okay. Anything else. Chris Andy. No. All right. 836 we're going to close DP 0901.24. Thank you for going. Thanks for your time. We are going to go into the delivery session now.