 The regional security system, with support from the European Union, will be conducting a panel discussion at the Government Information Service, Euronora House, under the theme Managing Migration in the Caribbean. The discussion will focus on regional migration patterns, border management practices, and human rights practices. Come put the pertinent questions to the regional and international panellists. March 5th at 5 p.m. at the Government Information Service, Euronora House, Point Seraphine Castries. Rank and file members of the Royal St. Lucia Police Force, members of the Task Force for the Prevention of Trafficking in Persons, other representatives of the Government of St. Lucia, representatives of the Royal Security System Headquartered in Barbados, representatives of the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States, or distinguished panellists, and of course all our guests who are here with us in studio or joining us virtually. Good evening, or as you say here in St. Lucia, Bonsoir. I would also like to take this opportunity to bring greetings on behalf of the Minister of Home Affairs, Justice and National Security, Senator the Honorable Herman Guild Francis, who sends his regards and best wishes for a successful event. Welcome to the second in a series of panel discussions organized by the Regional Security System. These symposia are intended to strengthen regional border security mechanisms as well as build awareness on issues which impact citizen security in the Eastern Caribbean. The first discussion which was held in Grenada had examined counter threat initiatives. Today's discussion will emphasize the thematic of migration. This event is being facilitated through funds provided to the RSS under the 10th European Development Fund. We therefore thank the European Union for its support to the region. We also extend our appreciation to the Government of the beautiful island of St. Lucia for hosting this event. My name is Natalie Dietrich-Jones and I have the distinct pleasure of serving as moderator for these proceedings. Being in St. Lucia has special significance for me as I am employed to a research institute at the University of the West Indies, which is named after one of your noble lords. At the Sir Arthur Lewis Institute of Social and Economic Studies, I am research fellow and chair of the Migration and Development Cluster, which is an interdisciplinary group of scholars undertaking research on contemporary migration and diaspora issues. I would personally like to convey my thanks to the RSS for conceptualizing this event and for their tireless efforts to organize in conjunction with counterparts in the Government of St. Lucia tonight's discussion. Before I introduce our panel, I would just like to make a few brief comments on unfolding global and regional events which are currently shaping border regimes far and near and which would set the context for tonight's discussion. While non-binding, the recently finalized Global Compact for Safe and Orderly Migration provides a framework for member states of the United Nations to support the effective management of migration. It seeks to balance the at times opposed principles of state sovereignty and migrant rights. The compact was negotiated during a critical moment marked by a turn to restrictive or nationalist migration rhetoric and practices in developed countries, which led some to opt out of the negotiation and finalization process for the compact. The Caribbean was largely supportive of the compact given country status as sites of origin, transit, and destination. Among its 23 objectives, there are several elements impacting small island developing states in particular, such as the need to address climate change and natural disasters, ensure safe and dignified return of migrants, and enhance availability of pathways for regular migration. The compact is still in its infancy, and we continue to watch its evolution as states adopt its various components in their respective jurisdictions. The second concerns the instances of political instability currently impacting the region. In the communique of the just concluded 30th Intercessional Meeting of the Conference of Heads of Government of Carcom, heads of states noted the cases of Venezuela and Haiti. In both contexts, political crises have encouraged forced migration with grave implications for neighboring states. We are also aware of the carbon of migrants which have been making their way through Central America to the United States. The cases of Haiti and Venezuela are important as they highlight the glaring absence of a regional strategy for the management of migration, as well as weak legislative and policy mechanisms among Carcom member states, which make the task of protecting vulnerable migrants, including refugees, and the displaced, a daunting one. While these events pose challenges for the region, they also present an opportunity for Carcom states to craft a pan-Caribbean response, and to do so within the context of international conventions which many have endorsed. This evening, we will take a look at some of these issues as we explore the local perspective in St. Lucia, regular and irregular migration in the Caribbean, legislative and policy frameworks for migration management in the region, and the Venezuelan migration crisis and the southern Caribbean. Our panelists come with a range of experiences at the national, regional and international level. I look forward to our engagement with them this evening, as well as stakeholders working in policy, governance and practice of border management who might be present tonight. After the presentations, we will open the floor for the question and answer session. Questions may pose questions on the GIS Facebook page or in person here in studio. Now to our panelists. Mr. Milton Desi was enlisted in the Royal St. Lucia Police Force on the 16th of January 1985. He now serves as the Deputy Commissioner of Police with responsibility for administration and corporate affairs and he is presently the officer in charge of the Royal St. Lucia Police Force in the absence of the Commissioner of Police. He holds several professional certifications including a master's degree in business administration. He has successfully completed a number of police related courses and in 2016, represented the Royal St. Lucia Police Force at an Interpol project to combat human trafficking and migrant smuggling in the Caribbean. In 2017, he also attended a seminar in Lima, Peru on enhancing strategic trade and border controls in Latin America and the Caribbean. Mr. Desi, please welcome. Good evening and this evening I'll be looking at St. Lucia's perspective on managing border security in mass migration and the challenges that we face and so on. St. Lucia like any other Caribbean island is faced with challenges in managing its border security. Its strategic location between Martin to its north and St. Vincent to the south creates the opportunity for illegal movement of people and contraband via sea. This calls for constant monitoring of the borders using local assets and also by means of joint and coordinated patrols with other regional agencies. In so far as it relates to migration, we have recorded cases of involuntary migration for which some pose challenges to deal with. However, we have used these challenges as opportunities to develop policies and strategies moving forward. For those of us who may not be from St. Lucia, I'll just give you a short description of where we are and how we could locate St. Lucia. The St. Lucia is a relatively small island with an area of about 20, 248 square miles. The population in 2013, 182,300. Castries is the capital. We have our official language which is English and we also have an official one which is Patwer which is persons sometimes like to speak because it creates more fun especially with the Creole. For the security sector in St. Lucia, we have no official armed force unlike other Caribbean islands who may have a defense force or an army to assist us with our, in enforcing the laws. However, our, the Royal St. Lucia Police Force is a paramilitary force with a strength of about 1,200 officers and in this 1,200 officers, you have the immigration officers a part of the force. St. Lucia has been affected by the international drugs and firearms trade and other transnational crimes. St. Lucia has led to increase in gun violence and other crimes. There has been increases in the homicide rate and firearms as seen as the weapon of choice in most instances. And if we look at the record of over the past 12 years, we look at the number of homicides that we experience each year and you could see that they were about ranking around the 40s and so on. But what is significant to note is that in 2017 there was a spike in that number. However, in 2018 we were able to bring that number down and persons were wondering how was it able to be done but it was through our intelligence, intelligence officers and also there was an injection of some extra resources into the force which allowed us to be out there and then be at the hotspot targeting these criminals. Just this sector reform initiative, a number of legislation and capacity building measures have been introduced. You had the first firearm and dangerous weapon laws were introduced and this included a mandatory 10-year prison sentence for possession of illegal firearms. You had an anti-gun legislation that was enacted in 2012. You have the Proceeds of Crime Act which we are doing very well with because most of our resources are coming from the proceeds of those crimes. We have the Witness Protection Bill, this although it is pending implementation. You have curriculum impacts although they are representative there that I spoke but we are there adopted the Declaration of Small Arms and Light Weapons where this has done well for us. Now if you look at involuntary returned migrants, a total of 708 involuntary migrants returned to St. Lucia for criminal and non-criminal offenses over a four year period as follows. In 2015 there were 117, in 2016 301 there was a significant increase. In 2017 165 and 2018 we recorded 125. And if we were to look at it via the various countries where they came from, we have MADNIC at the top with 449 and this I would say it explains why in the beginning when I said that because of the close proximity of St. Lucia and MADNIC persons are able to migrate illegally to MADNIC and when they caught they are returned to St. Lucia so we had a record 449. In Canada 122, France we had five, in the UK 23, 47 from the US, two from Venezuela and 60 from within the Caribbean itself. In 2015 St. Lucia recorded its biggest case of human trafficking where a total of about 75 students were trafficked into St. Lucia in the belief that they would be attended university. Large sums of money were paid for entry into the St. University however those who have followed this case would realize that there were very, we experienced a lot of challenges in dealing with those students especially keeping them in a secure area or during the processes of the court also in terms of repatriation taking them back that is re-migrating to their original locations and that is costly and I believe that was one of the challenges that we faced during the time. There are existing laws and institutions that are relevant to the processing of involuntary return migrants. At the international and regional level St. Lucia is signatory to several treaties relating to migrants and the free movement of people and some of which are the universal declaration of human rights international labour organization conventions on the protection of the rights of all migrant workers and members of their family convention on the rights of the child. The United Nations Convention against transnational organized crime the free movement protocol under the curriculum single market and economy CSEM free movement protocol of the organization of Eastern Caribbean states and we have the millennium declaration which emphasizes humanitarian law international human rights and sustainable development and we have of course our laws St. Lucia laws where the constitution order of St. Lucia which is our supreme law and most laws are designed or framed out of this. We have citizen ship act of 1975 we have the aliens act of 2008 immigration act and all these are laws that are available to us where reference can be made and to identify whether persons especially if reintegrating persons into the system. Now police actions we believe that upon receiving report and process involuntary written migrants upon arrival you collect data and manage information of the involuntary migrants you maintain a criminal database on high risk verify if any of the involuntary migrants have St. Lucia criminal antecedents because in coming in you would need to know whether those persons whether those persons have committed offenses where they are being returned from. We would also need to monitor the risk associated with the criminal and high risk involuntary written migrants you communicate with regional and international stakeholders with reference to the involuntary written migrants. Also the ministry of external affairs that's a medium where we need to use so that we will be able to engage with the various external agencies or missions overseas to coordinate the response to request for the verification of the St. Lucia's within re-admission. Verify the identity of St. Lucia national in an efficient and timely manner. Recommendations reintegration and rehabilitation services and social support rehabilitation and integration services for involuntary written migrants should include the one accommodation because most times if those persons are returned to our shores the modern likely they may not have a place to shelter and sometimes they have left families that probably they have broken ties with. So I believe at the first instance we need to identify accommodation for those persons then we're looking at the job placement or employment education and skills training health and medical services including mental health and substance abuse treatments. General services including case management and referral contract services for re-admitted persons children and their local families finance advice and counseling and mentoring to reduce and prevent re-offending behavior because sometimes and we do experience it although we do not we have not had mass re migrating persons however those that come we are seen a trend where they bring in some habits with them especially I could give an example cafe for example where they they come down and they're very skillful at that and then they may introduce it to our locals so if we keep ties on them if we if we could have them integrated back into society I believe this could assist a great deal that is the end of my presentation. Something that we actually found out this when we taught this morning the connection with Martinique and the high number of involuntary return migrants that come from that country. He also highlighted the challenges that St. Lucia faces as a small island developing state with monitoring quite porous borders and I think something else that Miss Nassif will speak to which is the high number of international agreements that have been signed but the difficulty with implementing those agreements so I think Miss Nassif will address that in her presentation we'll move now to Miss Joyce Lane Hughes and I'll just introduce her while they sort out the computer. Miss Hughes is border security liaison officer for CARCOM's implementation agency for crime and security that's known as CARCOM impacts for short which is based in Trinidad and Tobago. She previously served as senior immigration officer in Antigua and Barbuda having joined the department in 2001. She has held several positions including deputy chief immigration officer. She has participated in a number of sessions including this is training a three-week United States Department of States international visitor leadership program which focused on combating trafficking in persons. We welcome Miss Hughes to the podium and look forward to her presentation. Good evening and thank you and first I should say on behalf of the executive director thank you to RSS for inviting us to this forum. I promise I won't be long. Okay we can start by looking at the map of the island to see some of our challenges and of course we can see that the map depicts countries who are not even a part of CARCOM and thereby this is why we have so many challenges especially migration challenges since it was the third border for North America to include Canada and also transitory route to European states and of course between the largest producing states for illegal drugs and of course the largest consumer. This slide now depicts some of our common threats in the region but for this evening what we'll do we'll concentrate on human trafficking and the regular migration. Okay just a little I'm going to take about a minute or two to speak about CARCOM impacts knowing that it is not quite known. In 2005 the heads approved this CARCOM the CARCOM framework for the management of crime and security and in 2012 it was amended to include CDMA which deals with disaster management and CARFA that deals with health. Now CARCOM has like quasi cabinet arrangement where prime ministers or presidents has lead responsibility for particular issue and of course security Trinidad and Tobago has the lead responsibility for this area. The structure as you see do have standing committees as a of heads of law enforcement and security agencies and they provide technical advice to policy and political heads. Now they're actually backbone for policy to for driving policies in the region and these include the standing committees of commissioners of police, chiefs of immigration, military heads, controllers of customs, heads of Intel and financial heads of Intel and financial agencies and in 2016 the heads added the heads of corrections. Now meetings are held twice annually with these committees and the next meeting of chief of immigration and controllers of customs will be held in Grenada next month that's April and about impacts, impact structure we have the headquarters which deals with policy and strategy formulation and oversight of its two sub agencies. We also coordinate meetings which I spoke to earlier and also implement heads decision and we do offer capacity building also to water security officers, police, Intel and Intel. Joint regional communication center which is in Bob Adas that deals with passenger targeting through the advanced passenger information system. It also deals with the cargo profile we'll be dealing with cargo profiling implementation of the ASIS which is the advanced cargo information system. We'll we'll start implementation in April again I think it's April 23rd 2019 that's next month and also we do share information sharing with border security officers on persons of interest, travel history reports and also frequent flyer travelers report for the regional intelligence fusion center that is the intelligence arm of the agency and they deal with monitoring the occurrences of potential and actual threats as to so that they could give the region early warnings and also identify issues, issues, countries of interest and persons of interest and they do monitor threat trends. Now this is a crime and security strategy, the crime and security strategy this was approved in 2013. The assessment was done in 2010 and then it was approved in 2013. The risk of prioritize is in four tiers. Now if you see human trafficking and human trafficking, migrant smuggling, natural disasters those were and those were seen as tier two which are substantial threats which is both likely and relatively high impact threats. Now in 2018 we well in 2017 the heads mandated that we review the strategy and some changes occur which which were migrant smuggling and human trafficking remained at tier two. However, natural disasters went to tier one and the future risk which was climate change and migratory pressures and now tier two, tier two threats which are substantial threats. So they moved from tier four to tier two. Now we added, we added deportation as a new threat and that's in tier four and also border conflicts was also added as a new threat but that's on the tier three. Now how this is done is that questionnaires are sent to member states and they will identify their threats and then we do an analysis and come up with this. Now this was done in 2018 I'm sorry and it is yet to go to consulate and then to heads for approval so then we can amend the current crime and security strategy. Okay migration patterns in the region. Okay so then these are some of the trends that define migratory flows in the region and of course we could look at the free movement, people move because of the free movement in OECS and also for CSME, environmental induced migration, hurricane, emigration of skilled professionals and this is with CSME and also persons are moving from the region to other countries internationally. Feminization of migration that's more women are moving, increase in return migration and the commissioner spoke about his return 708 and this is something that we're dealing with also and of course the region is a transit point for irregular migration flows to develop countries. Okay these are some factors that motivate people to move of course for economic means, violence and sometimes we figure that persons are just moving for economic means but there are other things that are tied to the movement which are of course violence, stagnant labor markets of persons are moved that can be seen as economic too, political instability, natural disasters, terrain reunite with family members and also for educational purposes, irregular migration. So we can say that there are several types of irregular migration movements in the region that we've identified and the three major ones are irregular migration from non-curriculum member states who transit the region hoping to go to the developed countries. We also have inter-regional irregular migration where persons would go to other countries in the region and of course over-stated time become irregular after a while and we do have irregular migration from all curcum nationals to also developed countries. Now trafficking in person we know that this is a modern day form of slavery and it doesn't affect our region alone it is actually affecting all countries and of course we can be seen as a transit country when it comes to human trafficking. Now advertisements are placed to track persons to come to the region and as cashiers and you know domestic workers, manual workers and so forth and then after they get here then it is an issue. So the ACP, EU migration action plan was launched in 2015 and it provides technical support to governments on human trafficking and also migrant smuggling. Now some countries benefited from this technical assistance to include Grenada, St. Kitt's Neves, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines and Trinidad and Tobago. So I think nothing there is a meeting also next week on migration on human trafficking and migrant smuggling and of course the involuntary return migrants which we are having some issues with and I slipped over migrant smuggling. We do have a migrant smuggling in the region but the thing is that the data is not available and that is a problem that we do have in the region when it comes to identification, identifying these challenges. Mass migratory pressure of course I did say earlier that it was a level 4 in 2013 and from the 2018 threat analysis it is now a level 2 and Caracol member states we are faced with difficulties when responding to large flows of migrant lack of preventative measures or emergency management plans should include responding to these needs. In Antigua-Bobbiou, the Dominica-Bobbious and Jamaica, their emergency management plans do have specific tasks for immigration department in them but of course we still need to look at more. Okay so these are some of the trends of course I spoke about that earlier the volume of persons moving, diversity of their profiles, the dynamic nature of how they're moving, their routes. Most persons are coming by planes also and some are coming legally but depart legally but departing regularly and we do have an issue with mass return of deportees and this is a very big challenge I mean it's not really in our region but it's also globally the public opinion on migration that is really highly divided and it does affect our policies. We do have a problem with our borders monitoring our poorest borders and of course I spoke about deportees return and also there is a problem with repatriation of some or deportees of some nationalities. Of course substantial cost to countries receiving these large-scale and Trinidad will speak to that later on and we do the lack of systems asylum and formal systems and my colleague here will speak to that and of course increase in migration on women in prostitution in the region because of the mass migration. We do have lack of operational procedures especially nationally and regionally. We do have gaps in our national legal frameworks. Corruption plays a part also and we do have investigations that don't lead to convictions and sometimes it takes years actually for persons to go to court and of course lack of data. Some policy procedures what we're doing with ACP not ACPEU under the European Union Development 10th Development Fund. We are looking at a human trafficking regional assessment to study actually to provide a not better understanding of the human trafficking in the region and by gathering relevant information and also we're looking also at developing a repository for human trafficking and that should be coming this year through Cary Forum. We're looking at a regional approach to deal with common regional approach and a common policy to deal with return and reintegration of deportees and also we're looking at a regional response plan and all these will be discussed at the chief of immigration meeting and come to the customs meeting next month. The way forward we think that having a regional approach is really good like a common legislative and policy related matters in the field of mixed migratory flows. We look at diverse capacity building initiatives and what we did I mean we've done training with border security officers to include immigration, customs, police, Coast Guard and even airport and seaport personnel. Also we is good to have sharing of expertise in key technical areas such as those countries Bahamas who has procedures and Trinidad to work with the other countries and also collaborating on risk management, contingency planning and emergency management to build early warning systems. So these are really regional approach and we could promote by doing it regionally promote best practices in information sharing and data management, enhance our data collection systems and sharing relevant data and also to develop coordination and arrangements among all agencies and build a regional migration response plan. We're back from our break and we thank you for rejoining us in studio as we discussed the management of migration in the Caribbean. So I'm going to introduce Miss Lila Jane Nassif who is the head of mission at the United Nations High Commission on Refugees in Trinidad. Miss Nassif received her Juris Doctor from Loyola University in 1992 and subsequently read a Master's in Law in International Trade at the University of Amsterdam in 1995. She is a member of the bar in the states of New York and Connecticut and has clerked with the Office of Immigration Judge in New York before joining UNHCR. She has held multiple post-ins in the Middle East as well as in the Horn of Africa and brings with her that experience to her position in Trinidad. Welcome Miss Nassif. Thank you Natalie. Before I begin I'd like to take this opportunity one to thank the RSS for this panel discussion and also the European Union for supporting and making this panel discussion possible. So I am going to speak tonight in a general way on the legislative and policy framework for migration management in the Caribbean and I will start with a quick overview defining terms and talking then I'll move a little to the legal and policy frameworks touch on good practices and as Natalie mentioned before I'll speak a little on the global compact on refugees as well as a global compact on migration I'll try to make a few suggestions and then because in the region we are all facing a lot and confronting what is happening in Venezuela I will speak a little about that as well. So very quickly when we are talking about migration for UNHCR you really are talking about persons in several distinct categories you have asylum seekers you have refugees you also have migrants asylum seekers are persons seeking to be recognized as refugees they are persons who have expressed a fear of persecution and their study of their claim is still in process and that is on that basis that they maintain they cannot return to their country. Refugees if you go by the traditional UNHCR definition there are five reasons why a person would be recognized as a refugee relating to persecution on the basis of race religion nationality membership in a particular social group or political opinion and then clearly that person cannot go back home because they fear being persecuted or they face serious risks to their lives if they go back to their country migrants are persons who leave their country for other reasons it could be employment it could be study it could be simply tourism and they can return to their country they do not face any risk what you see now is basically when we talk about refugees when we talk about migrants and others from UNHCR perspective we are always concerned about the issue of protection and as the refugee agency for the UN we are guided by the 51 convention and 67 protocol that define or recognize who is a refugee and now on the screen you will have a quick listing or a quick view of countries in the Caribbean those that do belong those that have become signatories to the convention on refugee status so that are not and those who may have also other legislation or procedure that would impact on refugees asylum seekers and others this is now a listing of the various countries concerned you would see that in the Caribbean most countries are signatories to the convention and the protocol in the case of Anguilla Bermuda the British Virgin Islands they are not signatories to the convention or protocol Cayman Islands Montserrat are as are the Turks and Caicos with the Netherlands the situation is also a little different when you're thinking about the ABC's Aruba is on to the protocol Curacao is not neither st. Martin but also those countries fall also quite a bit under for foreign policy look to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands to set the tone there are as I mentioned before other legal and policy frameworks that potentially guide how you deal with migration Natalie of course was mentioning and Mr. Desi were mentioning about the Universal Declaration for Human Rights and others there are the constitutions in Trinidad and Tobago there are also good examples to be seen from their 2014 refugee policy that is under consideration they've also used quite a few they have innovation innovative techniques for example that they have instituted to alternatives for detention here I'm thinking about the orders of supervision looking at other practices in the region Guyana which has started to issue renewable state permits as Venezuelans have started to come in Suriname has done the same with issuing two-year permits for refugees and asylum seekers and then on a regional level countries in this region have started talking going back to the Brazil plan of action and that has then subsequently led to the Caribbean migration consultation so there is an ongoing dialogue as both Joyce and Mr. Desi and Nathalie and also I know Charmaine will be reflecting on that that is ongoing on migration and how to deal with it regionally looking a little in-depth at the Brazil plan of action declaration and plan of action it encompasses 29 countries three territories in Latin America and the Caribbean and it was passed in 2014 marking the declaration marking the anniversary of the declaration of the Cartagena declaration on refugees Cartagena declaration on refugees is quite important it has it is the guiding principles I would say in the region for Latin and Central America and also its definition has also had an impact on countries in the Caribbean the Brazil declaration seeks to improve the protection and achieve solutions for displaced persons and refugees and stateless persons it is also through chapter 5 it elaborates enhancing a regional cooperation looks to establish asylum systems and refugee status determination procedures and promotes comprehensive durable solutions with a focus on local integration last time countries met in February 2018 to look at their pledges and that was a time when the global compact for refugees was under discussion as mentioned previously there is now ongoing a Caribbean migration consultation that came about in 2016 with the support of both UNHCR my agency and IOM which is the international organization on migration and this is leading to a regional policy focused on coordination and a rights-based approach on issues related to migration and displacement and UNHCR has come into with technical guidance for the development of refugee legislation in the Caribbean in this regard the global compact there are two it came about following the New York Declaration for refugees and migration that was unanimously adopted by the UN General Assembly in 2016 the global compacts came about in 2018 there are two the first is a global compact on refugees which aims to provide a more equitable and I would say responsibility sharing arrangement among countries so there is a sharing of the burden UNHCR has then helped to come through with a comprehensive refugee response framework and it seeks to put pressure on countries that are facing in flux situations the global compact on migration it aims to mitigate the factors that hinder people from building and maintaining sustainable livelihoods in their countries of origin but also intends to reduce the risks and vulnerabilities migrants face at different stages of migration by respecting their human rights and also providing them with assistance and as Natalie mentioned aims to balance individual rights of migrants also versus state concerns this is just quickly a table reflecting the voting rights of the countries in the eastern Caribbean region as you can see most of them have supported the global compact on migration and the global compact on refugees okay with regards to suggestions from our agency we have come up with a variety of ideas probably most recently in March last year we have put out guidance notes on the outflow for Venezuelans we support creating legal pathways to reduce irregular migration we think it is very important to recognize that migrants refugees asylum seekers can really contribute to the countries that they are in and that we want to continue to assist in developing cooperation to address involuntary migration promoting the social and cultural and legal integration of refugees and asylum seekers and migrants in the communities they are in looking a little at Venezuela in particular to date more than three million persons Venezuelans are thought to have left their country most of them have gone towards Latin and towards South and Central America approximately 5,000 persons are thought to be leaving daily from Venezuela there is also within that movement a number of returnees such as Colombians and also Guyanese that are leaving Venezuela and going back to their countries with regards to to our projections for ourselves and IOM at the direction of the secretary general UNHCR and IOM are leading the response among agencies for Venezuela and we have set up a response plan for Venezuela in 2019 we are looking or projecting up to 5.3 million persons who might need aid with potentially aid reaching up to 2.2 million in terms of objectives we have immediate objectives emergency objectives so that refugees migrants and asylum seekers are provided with emergency assistance life-saving assistance and that we work to assure that their rights are respected that they find protection but from a long-term perspective we are hoping for that they will be able to socially economically culturally integrate into communities that have been empowered and capable of receiving them and in that regard we also look to support the host communities where the persons are moving into in the Caribbean five countries right now are experiencing the majority influx of Venezuelans largest numbers are in Trinidad and Tobago but we also have them in Aruba, Curacao, Dominican Republic and Guyana in terms of the regional response under the umbrella of UNHCR and IOM there are I believe more than 14 agencies UN agencies involved countless NGOs all working together 420 two activities nine objectives and approximately 35 million dollars that is needed to assist in responding the main areas for UNHCR in terms of our response we look to prevent forcible return to countries that is known as refoulement we look to support countries and putting putting in place legislation and procedures to help with responding we look at temporary shelter and humanitarian assistance for basic needs we are looking at protection concerns for women and girls and boys and then we look to support communities in main hosting areas thank you right on time I'm liking I'm liking these presentations we have one more Miss Nassif's presentation actually segues nicely into Miss Andrews presentation she will speak on the Venezuela Venezuelan context specifically I will introduce Miss Gandhi Andrews and then hand over to her for her presentation Miss Andrews Gandhi Andrews is the chief immigration officer at the immigration division of the Ministry of National Security in Trinidad and Tobago she is the first female to hold this office she joined the Trinidad and Tobago public service you can club in 1984 and became an immigration officer in 1989 rising through the ranks to now lead the division she holds a bachelor of sense in information systems and management a bachelor of laws and a master of sense in public sector management she has been extensively trained in migration management throughout her almost 30 year immigration career I don't believe that and she has seen firsthand changing migration trends I now hand over to Miss Andrews to share her presentation on the Venezuelan migration crisis thank you very much and after mentioned that today is carnival Tuesday in Trinidad and Tobago so RSS your timing was probably a little off but it's timely in that even though it's carnival and we have thousands of persons coming in for the revelry at the same time you have a lot of persons with mal intent coming in at the same time using the guise of carnival to come in so that we what happens a lot of times after carnival is that a lot of people overstay their time so that kind of and I wish you would put the the presentation of just to pay homage to my countrymen and the carnival celebrations in Trinidad and Tobago in my opening slide the thing is and one of the things in in border management and something that countries keep close to their hearts is this issue of sovereignty and there's a quote by Joshua Press the attorney at law the US Justice Department that says from our perspective all states have an inherent authority to police our sovereignty every country in the world has migration laws to govern who comes in who can stay who can be detained how they will be detained how they will be deported whether they are offenses and what the penalties for those offenses would be but when natural disasters take place when there's an economic collapse in a country and civil unrest when there was and terrorism how relevant are these wars are these laws when this is what people go through when there's despair when there's desolation when there's no hope when there's hunger and there's nothing for them do they think about laws people do not think about laws when they are faced with situations like that they just want to move and over the last few years the migrant crisis in Europe coming out of the Syrian wars and the acts of terrorism the natural disasters that we've had in Dominica and even Antigua those have pushed people out displaced persons and they just want to have a better life so they will if you don't let them in they will come anyway and they will find any way to come into Trinidad and Tobago and to any other country whether it be a land borders and they cross over just crossing a line in the sand or whether like our small island states with porous borders that they find a way by boat to get to our shores and we can't police our shores it's impossible to put Coast Guard and police around the island we simply will have to put everybody live in our country around the island and say you border you manage the borders so there's a little clip recently in Trinidad and Tobago I wanted to play it for you but there were too many profanities in it where persons were able to capture migrants coming off a boat illegally at a port in South Trinidad which means that people will come regardless of if there's a law or not and over the years Trinidad and Tobago has had a very close relationship with Venezuela and I'm going to stick to Venezuela and the context of Venezuela and what we're seeing happening and for us we are the closest island to Venezuela it takes perhaps on a speedboat 20 minutes from the closest point because at some point it is just seven nautical miles to get from Venezuela into Trinidad on the southern coast so it is that close it is even closer than their island of Margarita now what we've seen over the years is a movement of Venezuelans coming in and out movement of drugs guns and people come on and other goods coming out of Venezuela and it has happened over the years we've had a number of headlines over the last year and a half maybe where we see Venezuelan crisis spills over into Trinidad into a small island Venezuelans arrested Venezuelans held for possession of guns and ammunition Venezuelans arrested for a legal entry machine guns coming into the country women being arrested at rich gold rich gold is a known brothel in Trinidad and Tobago refugees Trinidad and Tobago a population destiny a popular destination for Venezuelan refugees and more and more we perhaps face a human humanitarian crisis as more Venezuelans come for refuge and we are even seeing a resurgence of piracy between Trinidad and Venezuela and a number of our fishermen have been affected by that the question is is there really a crisis is Trinidad and Tobago really experiencing a crisis with Venezuelans moving into Trinidad UNHCR I got this in February 2019 showed a number of countries where Venezuelan nationals are moving to and with estimated amounts of Venezuelan nationals living in those countries and for Trinidad and Tobago there's a figure of 40,000 Venezuelan nationals there's a little dispute about that because I have some figures from my border management system which tracks all the arrivals and departures of persons which shows between 2014 to now a significant decline in the numbers of Venezuelan nationals arriving legally into Trinidad and Tobago and note I said legally into Trinidad and Tobago so it went from let's say a high of almost six of over 61,000 in 2015 to last year 2018 just about 28,000 persons coming in to Trinidad and Tobago at a legal port of entry now we are seeing a number of overstayers and over the years we are seeing that those persons who came in legally are overstaying their time in Trinidad and Tobago last year we've had just about 4,000 the year before 2000 so there's an increase over the years and I've included here numbers of Venezuelans who have gone and registered as asylum seekers and refugees with UNHCR and these are the figures that we have Venezuelans did not start registering as asylum seekers until 2016 at least in Trinidad and Tobago but between 2016 and 2019 they're almost close to 10,000 registered asylum seekers and refugees Venezuelans in Trinidad and Tobago so statistics always have to wonder about where it's at here we're looking at from the enforcement units how many Venezuelan nationals as Trinidad and Tobago detained and we are again seeing an increasing number of Venezuelans being detained for breaching the immigration laws of Trinidad and Tobago in 2016 it was 212 last year it was 1,375 and concurrent with that or coming out of that we are saying that more and more of those persons that we detained have entered the country illegally we went from 29 in 2016 to almost 618 and so far for this year of the 338 Venezuelans we have detained for the year 200 of them entered the country illegally so we are seeing a trend where they are declining in arrivals legally but the illegal entry is now increasing and what I need to say with that is that many of the Venezuelans we see coming in have no documentation they have no passports some of them have no sedulars and what we have found is that some of the persons who claim to be Venezuelans and not Venezuelan nationals they are coming from other Spanish-speaking countries and using the situation in Venezuela to enter Trinidad and Tobago so I'm going to discuss the impact of what we are seeing with the Venezuelan crisis in in the context of six key border management issues and that is security legal issues economic societal regulatory and manager I may not get to the last two and I want to focus on at least the first two in terms of security because we are seeing the numbers increasing for illegal entry we know that they are human smuggling rings existing and a lot of it is organized crime because what we are seeing is that the humans the persons I mean I put it as humans the persons are being smuggled into Trinidad and Tobago on the same vessels that are carrying drugs guns and ammunition right so we are seeing that trend and it is worrying because it is organized networks and they're coming from Venezuela they're linking with the locals the Trinidadians to move persons across we see an increase in prostitution and that in itself is worrying because that leads to other issues within the jurisdiction you're talking about one of the key things is a breakdown in moral values because it is spreading throughout the country trafficking in persons when there's prostitution sexual exploitation is the highest incidence of of trafficking in persons especially in our region and therefore once there's prostitution you can very well expect trafficking in persons and the other criminal activities happening corruption being another one where you find that a lot of persons are getting involved and facilitating illicit activities on a societal level what we're seeing is a resurgence of diseases we are seeing an increase in persons coming in from Venezuela with malaria and measles and other diseases we are seeing strangely enough an increase in divorce because of infidelity we are seeing young people coming in from Venezuela and those are serious issues those the Venezuelan nationals coming in and there are a lot of young people and they have no education there's no school because of the laws that we have in place or lack thereof they cannot attend school we are seeing some xenophobia creeping in to the country because of the amount of refugees and asylum seekers and Venezuelans because not all of them are claiming asylum and one benefit is that we are seeing Trinidadians becoming bilingual because they want to communicate with the Latinas on an economic level what we are seeing and it's is an issue is a legal importation of goods animals and plants and for the animals you would expect we've seen horses and cattle and of goats and other animals being brought on vessels into Trinidad and the risk for us is the diseases that may come with the animals and spread to the local agriculture same thing with the plants we see a flight of foreign exchange we see with the increased work force available we are seeing now a downward trend in wages because companies and employers are able to now hire Venezuelans at a lower wage than if they had to hire a Trinidadian and that is an issue and of course there's bartering I bring two guns you give me some food to take back home and that is what we are seeing a lot of we have outdated legislation that's a fact because our legislation did not contemplate a lot of these issues and we really need to change legislation and develop policy to address a number of these challenges that are facing us with the numbers coming in and with us prosecuting for illegal entry because that's what my law says I have to do a number of persons are filing for judicial review even those persons are applying for asylum so we have a number of cases going before the court for judicial review and if there's no legislation perhaps the judiciary can then or will have to then make a decision and set precedent in that matter when we talk about regulatory issues we're talking about visa policies and whatnot what other measures we could put in place to restrict the movement of persons coming into the country and on a managerial level we're talking about resources capacity building and networking so what do we do government recently decided that they will look at a policy to deal with Venezuelans and to register Venezuelans to work the idea is to love Venezuelans whether they came in legally or illegally to register with immigration and that will clarify the numbers in the country and then we could look at what skills they have and how we can issue a work permit or work permit exemption so that they can work legally because really actually most of them want to earn money to send back home to their families and that's really what they would like to do for our region collaboration really is key we need to share information we need to share intelligence and we need to share expertise because that is the only way for our region as a carry-come region that we can address this issue because we realize that once it starts in one country it starts moving up the islands or moving down the islands accordingly and therefore it is indeed a time for us to collaborate more on some of these issues because we need to move from talk to action because action changes things thank you ladies and gentlemen right so that concludes the presentations for this evening I have some questions for the panelists I don't want to abuse my position as chair but I will take question okay we're moving to another break so we'll take the questions after the break one trafficking happens in plain sight know the science see it report it to report suspected cases of human trafficking call the TIP hotline at 847 okay and welcome back we are at the phase of the question and answer session and we will open the floor for questions either from persons in studio or who might post questions online on the GIS Facebook page as I said earlier I have some questions for the panelists but I don't want to abuse my position as moderator so I'll open the floor if anyone has any burning questions and then I will ask the panelists the questions that I had prepared questions with this NASA UNHCR what level of support is when it's here granting not going to trade at because as Charmin said if it happens in one it's only a matter of time before it comes down and it's two-fold sometimes last year the government of tenucia impose visa restrictions on Venezuela's coming in we may get one or two coming illegally but the visa regime is in place and that stands not in that the possibility exists for illegal migration and persons coming in our borders as we all know are very porous and it is impossible to pull it off because of the cost UNHCR has a part of playing with all what level of support is UNHCR willing to give has given or intend to because if the movement of us in about five thousand daily comes down it's only a matter of time before they see the gaps where they can come to the islands and if we learn from what Charmin is saying we need to be ready now question again what is UNHCR willing to do has done point tends to do in the not too distant future to help prepare us of buttress what is going to happen when all brings loose okay before Ms. Nassif answers could you identify yourself sir Inspector Lucius Lake here at the immigration solution okay thank you for your question okay well thank you for your question I would say that the foremost support that UNHCR can give any country is in helping to give guidance or to give ideas in putting in place procedures legislation to allow countries to be able to respond to a situation of influx or a situation of having refugees and asylum seekers and or migrants come in and this is what we would seek to do in any country we also are ready to support communities we would want to advocate for countries to be able to take a right spaced approach so one that would be able to examine persons their actual need in terms of are they having a real protection problem so that they are not put at future risk and I believe strongly that the approach that a country can take and is not simply just to look at it from a security perspective but to look at refugees and asylum seekers as Charmin was also suggesting as potentially assets that can contribute quite a bit to your country whether socially or economically or culturally thank you any other questions from the floor all right so I will begin probably moving around the table so I'll start with Deputy Commissioner Desi what do you think is the most challenging issue for the management of St. Lucia's sea and airports okay I believe that in terms of the airport one of the challenge that we faced is with our border management system because as they would appreciate that we have to liaise with the other agencies the other islands so that we could get the information especially with a piece and if you do not have a proper system that you cannot do it and that is why the government is moving towards having a brand new border management system which we believe would address that in terms of by sea as it had I believe my question have been answered in terms of the the porous borders that we cannot control we have seen and it's recorded that most persons who come by a you they come in legally because they need to get a ticket they get the passport their documents and so on we have the visa but by sea they do not require anything to come it's just a decision to leave where they are then come across so most times you may be lucky to for some of them to be caught other times they come into our shores okay so just to clarify for those of us who don't work in immigration when you say border management system is it a software that you're referring to or is it the system is the it's I would say it encompasses everything from the software your hardware their personnel and everything that comes with your day-to-day activities in managing our our border okay all right and so for you the more challenging issue is the seaport and not the airport yes the the seaport in terms of persons in as much as the airport where the system needs upgrading or a new one but with the seaport it is very challenging to manage yeah okay so we have a question from the floor please introduce yourself and then you can pose your question at the OCS Commission but my question is for Mr. Daisy I know it's from your presentation that your statistics for involuntary return migrants and I think both homicides both in 2017 there was a spike in those statistics so I wanted to know whether there is a re-correlation between the involuntary return migrants and the increase you know the spike in homicide no we did not detect that and we could not say that there was a correlation between the the return migrants and the homicides committed although we may have seen it in terms of some other crimes but not in terms of homicide okay so I'll move to miss Hughes and I think some of this was touched on in the last portion of Miss Gandhi Andrews presentation but what advice would you give to car come heads of government to support a collaborative approach towards the management of undocumented or some people say irregular migration yes in December 2018 that's last year they had decided that they will move to full free movement in 2021 in the next three years now and even to the single domestic space proposed single message space that word that we had in 2007 now there's several things that we need to do in order to get to that area and even for now to is number one we need to share information between our between our agencies our countries and also to use the systems that are in place which is the joint regional communication systems and the regional intelligence fusion system we need to even start from there to start to share mandate member states to share information intelligence information communicate to each other now we also need to harmonize to look at our legislation and shaman did speak to speak about that the antiquated laws in member states we need to look at that because they're not aligned to the human rights laws and the international laws the other laws and so forth and I mean the bird border management system this needs to be integrated so at least I mean integrated within member states so at least we can see who's moving and so forth I mean it's a lot but we have to take baby steps to get there okay and so basically share mandate member states to share information intelligence information and also to look at all laws and the border management systems okay and what resources do you think the region would require in order to make that's our reality it will require a lot but then the thing about it is that if we're looking at a trends to manage or migrate to trans then at least we have to look to see if funds or security which one because in the end I mean it will security will always be on top will always be on top so I think that even though you're looking at funds funding and so forth it's something that you in the long run it is better to just use the money's funds now to do these sort of things than because in the long run it will definitely be more expensive okay so the trade-off I see the hand the trade-off is pay have the financial expenditure now for security in the future okay there's a gentleman at the back the mic is somewhere at okay he has it can you identify yourself and then put your question I am the pilot consultant for the international organization for migration my question is to Mr. Daisy earlier you said Singapore recorded 1555 people 75 75 if you were to deal with a case like that in 2019 exceeding all the trading how would you organization differently okay in terms of dealing with it unlike the first instance where we had the police were responsible for dealing with police immigration however through the mistakes that were made or through as I said the challenges that we had there were government in place a joint I would say a joint committee whereby which involves members of the social social services ministry of social development you had it's a permanent secretary the Ministry of Home Affairs the police will be represented customs being represented so you find that all members were here so you have a representation on that task force so that if that event will be able to be better placed to deal with it and for miss Andrews just to use your country as a case as opposed to the thing with with trafficking in person is that it's so difficult once identified it's difficult to prosecute and you require the cooperation of the victim in most of the in all of the cases because you require the information from the victim in order to do your investigation and then your prosecution because you have to gather your evidence and since 2013 when we proclaimed our trafficking in persons legislation and soon after that that was in January and April we prosecuted our first person under that act for trafficking in persons for trafficking three three Colombian women that matter only went to the high court in 2017 it took four years to go through the magistrates court and then there's not a date yet set in the high court for that matter to move forward and within that time you're talking years and a lot of your victims want to move on with their life and it is difficult for them to relive their nightmare over and over and over and we have to find ways in order to move that prosecution forward faster than what it is and we've had a number of cases in Trinidad and Tobago just recently there was a raid where they found 19 girls at different locations and they're investigating now as to whether they are in fact victims are trafficking but it's difficult and it requires commitment from the judiciary and everybody else involved to really prosecute and and to deal with those issues it's heartbreaking when you do what you're supposed to do and then it gets stuck in court and we know that we're dealing with and everybody is innocent until proven guilty but it's difficult to see victims being dragged through after what they've gone through in being trafficked to see them have to do it over and over and over and we've had in the region with IOM over the years and we're going back to 2008 when IOM started funding trainings and and what not in trafficking we still have a long way to go even 11 years later we have the laws but is in the implementation of the laws is where we find the difficulty a lot of the times so I'm going to pick up on two things that were said about the challenges that small island developing states face so one is the porosity of borders and the challenges that that poses in terms of managing migration and the other is the the slowness if you will of the court system in terms of prosecuting cases what and this is open to anybody on the panel what challenges do you think hinder small island developing states from effectively managing migration the the poorest borders is in fact the most challenging issue while we have we have to rely on intelligence in terms of identifying the networks and identifying where they coming up and for us in Trinidad and Tobago and I'll speak to Trinidad and Tobago we know that most of the times they come up along the southern border and through intelligence we've been able to identify places recently we have been targeting those areas in Trinidad and we have been arresting a number of persons arriving on the southern border the military yes the defense force they are down there working with police working with immigration however when you tighten one area they just move somewhere else they just moved another area you know where you cannot police and you have to rely on the intelligence and that's that's the biggest problem that we have at this point in time in trying to manage the migration that we are seeing the sharing of information is the other one for some reason it happens within countries and it happens between countries people don't like to share this information why I have no idea I don't know if it goes back to goes back to the issues of sovereignty I mentioned in my presentation but for us to do what we need to do we have to share the information when we get the intelligence when we see certain trends happening in one country ultimately it gets to another one and we have to be able to share those trends and while we meet annually chiefs of immigration and controllers are customs and we meet annually and we discuss a lot of these issues many times it's a discussion and nothing happens thereafter and therefore we need to move from that point of talk in terms of action and really active collaboration and not just once a year but throughout the year whether we identify points of contact and those persons and at the more of the operational level I think we need to get the persons together at the operational level so that they are the ones who get the intelligence they are the ones who are there seeing a lot of the trends and we need to have a network at the operational level throughout the region to really look at some of these issues and I think in that kind of collaboration we might start to make some strides in identifying criminal activity identifying criminal networks and most importantly having the intelligence to disrupt those networks. Most of the regular migrants also they arrive legally and also depart irregular by irregular means. Now the thing is that sharing of information is key and also it's how we treat the information when we get it also because of course JRCC is there and they would say to you okay look for John Brown he's coming in but then sometimes when they call back to say okay what happened I mean member states would say oh they went or we didn't check them or those sort of things so you're still getting the information and you're not using it also so that is a real challenge there because sometimes you can't get the information after the person has already left it makes no sense at that point in time you know so it's a timely sharing of the information and I think as we work with JRCC and we put better systems in place so how to share the information that system will get better. Right but there there is a challenge though of data so access to data sharing of data reporting of data you mentioned the disjoint between UNHCRs 40,000 and then what you have recorded in your administrative system so how then what's the best way to enhance the data gathering and sharing process I know you say we need to share but what what exactly would that look like. And that's the thing because we identify the trends in terms of managing migration for trend and today we have an integrated border management system and we got a lot of data out of that which we share with Ingenidad amongst our intelligence agencies and others so that information is there sometimes it may need an MOU in order to share the information. Sometimes we have to go out and either we engage the international organizations to perhaps do some kind of data collection for us so for example IOM had offered a data tracking matrix and data tracking system in order to see how many Venezuelan nationals are in the country of course it comes down now to a government decision as to whether to accept the assistance or not and at a regional level whether or not we would engage IOM and I know that Joyce Lynn mentioned before engaging IOM and UN ECR and others to gather some of that data for us and present it because then it comes down to an issue of resources. Collecting data sometimes could be expensive and if people don't see all governments or agencies don't see the value in collecting the data because collecting it is one thing using it is something else because you have to use it to create your policies to inform whatever it is you're doing so that is the importance of it and therefore we can't just collect it we have to do something with it and a lot of it is policy decisions so one to collect it two to share it and then in sharing it to inform the policy once again. All right so evidence-based policy making and I'd like to bring in Ms. Nassif just to ask her opinion on how an enhanced data regime could support development of legislative and policy frameworks in the Caribbean. Well I find that I agree very much with what Charmaine is saying that data is important and can be very critical in putting in place the right systems and policies that you need and I absolutely agree with her when she talks about how you treat that data is key in order to put in place the right policies it's not just simply from a UN HCR perspective it's not just simply the security concerns that are being expressed but also keeping in mind that how you use this data in order to enhance the protection of people which is ultimately what you would want so you want to take an approach that would then be able to be respectful in the policies that you are designing. Okay we have a question from okay one okay so I'll go with Ms. Manloy for us and then very briefly there's Claudia Monlway Department of Home Affairs and National Security assistant focal point trafficking in persons. I noted from the presentations that clearly St. Lucia has a revolving door challenge as well as Trinidad and Tobago and I am wondering whether we have addressed this at the regional level with a solution in mind or is it a case where we just have to acknowledge it as Eric Currin Mollies which essentially has no solution so is there are some controls or are there some controls that we could at least put in place on the ground or sensitize persons etc. What can we look at by way of addressing these situations where persons are sent down last week and back in the same territory the week after. Thank you. Are we talking about human trafficking or irregular migrants? Irregular migration. Okay yes what we're doing is to see how best we could work with IOM to do IOM and also UNHCR. We're looking at doing an MOU to assist member state in managing this in both the migrate irregular migration to include asylum seekers even I mean all asylum seekers human trafficking and so forth. So yeah we are looking at a system there because we do have even as I identified in my presentation we do have even caracom or caracom brothers and sisters also coming through the region and also trying to go to other developed countries and that is an issue because of course we do get the hit back from the third to the developed countries so yes it's something that we are looking at to see how best we can harmonize or policies and procedures in handling that because what happens in St. Lucia is also happening in St. Vincent is also happening even in Bahamas and so forth so yes we are looking at that. I do think it is important to acknowledge that there have been a lot of efforts that have been done on a regional level and that potentially also at issue now is to now bring it back down to the local level to what is being done in a particular country and to encourage that country to put in place those steps those procedures those laws that are needed so that active response is potentially what is needed at this time. Okay so thank you and Lieutenant Commander Roberts has a question. Good evening and this question is for Miss Gandhi Andrew you would have mentioned the movement of primarily Venezuelans and some and some other nationalities from the South American continent where are you picking at the movement of any other nationalities that may not be from this region. Yes we are. We find that a lot of extra regional migrants are coming in to try that and to be able via Venezuela and by that I mean persons from various countries in Africa from Syria even from China from Sri Lanka we've seen a number wide very diverse kinds of persons coming in through Venezuela and a lot of them when we've done some of the work through Interpol a lot of them do have criminal antecedents so the challenge for us though is in getting the information from some of those countries identifying some of them because a lot of them may tell you and we have we see it a lot with the African nationals they tell you they're from one country but they're really from somewhere else so they tell you they're from Ghana but they're really from either Nigeria or Senegal or Geni-Kanaki or a whole host of other countries they come from so we do see a whole lot of other nationalities coming in besides the Venezuelans and the other persons from Central America some of them are involved in a lot of criminal activity and we have a lot of them who we have prosecuted for criminal activity drugs guns even making fraudulent documents because we know some countries have a certain skill set that they bring to the region we see persons from the Eastern European block coming into the country as well and skimming credit card and ATM card debit card skimming so and we've seen that even coming down from the other islands not only coming in from Venezuela but they coming legally from some of the other islands because they go island hopping as well so we do see a lot of other nationalities coming in inspector has another question dealing with migrants comes at a cost and we do we have not addressed it in one way but it is the responsibility of each country to deal with it and look at the unemployment levels in each territory the ups and downs that it comes through it was interesting at one of the presentations spoke about the the renewal of state especially for the Venezuelans and the ability to allow them to work I see that's a bit of a challenge that the individual countries are not able to seek employment for all of their persons and we have these migrants coming who are fleeing right fully from strife in their countries not as a traffic just a migrant part of it and coming in and the individual states have a responsibility now for receiving them and all what comes with it because we're going to get guidance from you and East in that regard it comes down to the dollar figure is as any agency or institution being sort of spoken to in relation to giving some relief to the countries who like Trinidad who has a problem right now and the others in lieu of it happening because if what is happening comes down now all most of the islands in the region will be that way but we have to fend for our people first of all and then the migrants and you don't want to further create any problems or difficulties for them so the question is funding in that regard have we spoken to anybody is anything happening that regard as a regional approach through curriculum in that regard it's written for the entire panel funding is always an issue when you're dealing with anything migration related even when you detain someone the cost of detention when you repatriate someone the cost of that repatriation recently at a joint select committee we told the committee that the average cost of keeping one detainee is 250 TT dollars a day at the detention center we spend an average of maybe 15 million 15 to 20 million TT dollars annually on the detention center and that is keeping persons the cost of the facility persons the employees etc. we've chartered an aircraft on two occasions to take Africa nationals home because by commercial aircraft it costs almost 200,000 TT dollars to repatriate one individual the reason being it's not just the cost of the ticket for that individual but you need escorts to take them home and airlines have put in place their policy is that if a flight is longer than eight hours eight hours plus you must have three escorts because while one sleeps two of them will be got in the individual so there's an expensive enterprise from the point of detention migrants come in and they find work so it means that there is work the question is how do you regulate that and how do you not open them to exploitation and I'm using exploitation not in the context of trafficking in prisons but how do you prevent employers from paying them less than what is your legislated minimum wage because they will take less because they would need the money right so they do find work and they can't support themselves and they want to support themselves the fund then comes in managing such an enterprise when I spoke about and something that we have to consider now when minister talk about registered in the Venezuelans etc. there will be a cost attached to that because you may have to hire staff you may have to rent some place because you can't have thousands of persons coming in to the office on a daily basis to register you have to take that somewhere outside of what would be your normal office so there are a lot of considerations I know that UNHCR has offered to help and has continued to offer assistance and so too has IOM they have continued to offer assistance to government in order to deal with the asylum seekers and those persons who may not be asylum seekers but find themselves in a vulnerable position and therefore if they can fund it is just again a collaborative effort in order to get it done identify what the issues are what the needs are and then come up with a plan for it I thought we had time for one more question but we're actually down to the very last minute unless our panelists have a burning comment to make Miss Nassifa so I'm not going to add anything other than to say yes that we are ready to support Trinidad and today okay and other countries as well okay so from what we've seen and heard to this evening migration is a very complex phenomenon and we have discussed but a fraction of the key issues impacting the region to date we anticipate that you will continue to engage with each other and in your own circles to continue to explore the issues that have been raised tonight and so in order to close off this evening's proceedings I'm going to invite Lieutenant Commander Brian Roberts director of training at the RSS to move the vote of thanks but we thank you for joining us this evening and look forward to the RSS the other series of panel discussions that the RSS will hold throughout the OECS good night so good evening all on behalf of the executive director of the region security system I extend warm thanks to you and to everyone for stimulating discussion on the more silly and issues surrounding migration in the contemporary Caribbean environment first let me express our profound thanks to our main partner the European Union as you know this panel discussion was funded through the 10th European Development Fund project a collaborative funding initiative between the RSS and the European Union we appreciate the assistance in supporting our request to raise awareness on key issues or security issues as you say and trigger much-needed discussion among our state holders to a wonderful panel of experts let me first express my thanks to Miss Leah Nassif from the office of United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees thank you for the succinct presentation on the legislation and policy frameworks necessary for effective migration management in the region the presentation was certainly raise awareness in the current work of the organization and also areas to potentially strengthen human rights within border management systems we are extremely delighted to have carry-on impacts on board with us this evening this organization manages two legacy agencies from Cookec Workup 2007 the regional intelligence fusion center and the joint regional communications center the latter contributes greatly to regional border management efforts primarily through the advanced passenger passenger information system or APIS miss huge thank you for taking the time out from your business schedule to highlight the patterns and challenges of border management in the Caribbean today we got an opportunity to focus if only for a brief moment on the Venezuela crisis and its impact on border management practices I'm sure our audiences both here and online were grateful for the information shared Mrs. Gandhi Andrews we truly appreciate the various lenses you give to view the impacts of this phenomenon and the approach is currently being considered by one of our Caribbean territories thank you to Dr. Dietrich Jones I hope I got that right thank you for carefully staring us through the second panel discussion in the series and ensuring that we kept with the timelines your remarks and engagement with the panel and the audience help to shed some light on important issues ripe for discussion we truly appreciate your wise counsel in the linear in delineating the team at the areas the matter areas for discussion and we look forward to even building a stronger relationship between the RSS and UWI Mr. Milton Dizzi deputy commissioner of police resolution police force thank you for providing the local context to migration and border management but extension we are also profoundly grateful for the tremendous support you and your team provided to the RSS headquarters in coordination this event thank you to the audience both here and in the studio and online thank you for supporting this discussion your engagement of the panelists implies that it was a worthwhile experience and we look forward to continuing engagement in the future the media your crucial partner in raising awareness among agencies and publics and we are grateful that you supported the event today a special thank you to the team here at the GIS for making this was their facility here available to us to broadcast this event live I also take this opportunity to inform the audience that event will be re-broadcast by GIS and will also be available on the RSS website last but by no means least a very a very special thank you to Miss Claudia Monlui from the Ministry of Home Affairs Justice and National Security for the tremendous support you provided to our team at the RSS you are very dedicated and committed to tasks and your contribution was instrumental to the success of this event once again thanks to everyone have a pleasant night God bless the regional security system with support from the European Union will be conducting a panel discussion at the government information service Euronora House under the theme managing migration in the Caribbean the discussion will focus on regional migration patterns border management practices and human rights practices come put the pertinent questions to the regional and international panellists March 5th at 5 p.m. at the government information service Euronora House point seraphine castries