 Hello, this is Carl Ackerman, host of History is Here to Help, and we are so pleased today to have Sunny Dunn and Feldt here from Punahou School, but someone who also spent a great deal of time at USC. And of course, we are show focused on the humanities, but the question is, how does one get support for the humanities and sustain it? So that Sunny is someone who can tell us all about this because he is in charge of doing this right now at Punahou School, but before that he was in charge of doing this at USC. So Sunny, I'm going to ask you to give our audience a little bit of about your history before. Sure, I'll give the abbreviated version, Carl. I spent 25 years in higher education, starting my career at Stanford University, moving to Cornell, and then most recently at USC. Before I was courted to come to Hawaii, and thankfully made the right decision and joined Punahou School. So this is my first foray into K-12 independent schools, and I've been here about three years. I had an undergraduate degree from State University of New York at Binghamton, and went to grad school at Cornell University. Well that is a distinguished resume right there, and that's a nice way to start. So this program today is all about careful stewardship. And I guess the first question that I would have for you is, what do you see as your main goals in your position now and in your position at USC? What are the things that you think about all day? And we'll get down to the nitty gritties in a bit, but what do you think about? What do you think about your professional purpose, not your personal purpose, but your professional purpose? Well I'm going to start at the 30,000 foot level, Carl. I think what my goal is, what I try to achieve on a daily basis is to advance the mission of the institution. And not for profits like universities or K-12 schools are not beholden to shareholders, but we do have a goal of advancing our mission. And we can advance the mission if we're not careful stewards of our resources. And another way to think about it is, the more resources we have, and the better we steward them, the more we could advance our mission. That's a good point to start from. Now of course, Puneville School and USC are private institutions. Where is money generated from? And then once this money is generated, where do you keep it? And of course, you may want to start with tuition, but you're the expert, not me. So they're really, for all intents and purposes, two sources of revenue. And we can quibble about some other small parts of the pie, but the two sources are revenue, which in institutions like, I'm sorry, our tuition, which institutions like Puneville make up the bulk of our revenue and advancement or donations, whether it's from individuals or foundations, which makes up a small but significant part of our revenue pie. So those are really the only two sources. And so we have to be very careful about how we approach each of those. For instance, we could probably, again, at any institution, just turn on the faucet in terms of expenditures and keep raising tuition, but you started with the concept of sustainability, and that might work for a year or two or even five, maybe even 10, but soon you'd be locking out a lot of people who wouldn't be able to access that education that we really think is an important part of making a great education, a diverse student body. So the more careful we are on the expense side, the more we can just keep this institution inclusive and accessible to everybody. You know, and what this does, just for me to make a commentary, because this is about history, is that you allow your historians at USC and your historians at Puneville to have a great deal of freedom. And the resources are there for copying material, getting film, getting videos, having the best computers available. And resources that can help if a computer breaks down to fix those computers and things like that, which is always such a treasure, something that is not affordable generally in the public sector, with public education. So my next question to you is, so when you look out at the vast resources of something like a USC or a Puneville school, and as you mentioned, vast only because the money is continually coming in, and that's not a guarantee, what's what are your concerns on a daily basis? What are you, what, you know, and maybe the concerns, there may be some concerns that keep you up at night. What are the, what are the basic issues? Well, I think I would be careful with the words, vast resources because I think the, some people interpret that as endless resources or unlimited resources or infinite resources. And by definition, you know, no resources is infinite about at Puneville. And I think similar to many other schools, the vast majority of our resources go back to the employees in our faculty and our staff are being very competitively. And so about, you know, 70% of our budget goes to that. So when you ask what am I, what do I think about? What am I concerned about? I think we have this really wonderful balance of autonomy versus, let's say, centralization. And autonomy means faculty can explore and do some really neat things that end up becoming part of UNO for the, for the long term. And I'll share two examples that, that come to mind. One is the Glass Studio that we recently celebrated our 50th anniversary of glassblowing. That's something that never would have happened if we didn't have this sense of autonomy for the faculty to create something exciting and new and different and unique that most schools don't have. Another, of course, is the Boyle program. And I'm sure you've spoken about this in another podcast. But what an exciting program. What a great way for Puneville to do outreach and have a really big impact on the island and on Hawaii. That's not something we would do if we discouraged faculty from trying new things. So autonomy on the one hand is amazing. And on the other, it's a little bit scary for me, for, for where I sit because it, it automatically means we're going to try things, some of which will succeed, some of which won't. But all of which require some infusion of resources, whether it's people's time or tuition dollars. And in the end, I think it's very beneficial to an institution like ours. But that balance again has to be, has to be a good, sustainable balance. Well, you mentioned the glassblowing and, and there's a funny story related to this. I'll be quick. You know, when the former headmaster, the former president of Puneville, Jim Scott was on the East Coast one time doing, I don't know, what kind of tour. And someone came up to him and said, oh, Puneville School, I know well. And of course, at that time, Barack Obama was president. And so Jim expected, OK, he's going to start talking, or she's going to start talking about President Obama. And the person said, oh, you have great glassblowing at that school. And so I thought that was, that was great. Well, Sadi, you know, you have, you mentioned the Pueo program, you know, the Clarence T.C. Ching Pueo program. And of course, I think what most of our audience don't know about Puneville School is that Puneville spends, you know, if you if you take in kind monies also into account about a million dollars on public education every year through the Pueo program. And what, you know, these are kind of initiatives that are, you know, quite exciting. And so let me ask you about two other things. From your perspective, because you mentioned the independence of faculty, how did that contribute to, for example, the Japanese language teachers developing a book that's now used all across the United States and donating most of the revenues from their from their book, you know, which was over a million dollars on about five or 10 years ago. So that must be more now. And the current thing, I think one of the most exciting things that's happening in Puneville School is that Asian history textbook, because Puneville teaches Asian history, one of the few schools to do so in the country, written by Robert Stratt and Dr. Robert Stratt. So how does how does specifically that relate to what you just said? How do how are teachers empowered to do sort of things like that, you know, from a fiscal perspective, from your perspective? Well, first, and if I haven't mentioned this, I've been in Puneville now just going out three years, so I can't speak firsthand. But I have, I'm quite familiar with both of the examples you shared. And it's actually really amazing for a school to provide leadership, say, to other schools in terms of the textbook, whether it's Japanese language or the Asian history course. And where we sit in the Pacific, I think where we in Hawaii are uniquely positioned to be leaders in so many things like Asian history or Japanese language in the US. So that just in and of itself is exciting. And it's the very positive side about faculty autonomy. But what's what we don't see, you know, by definition, it's hard to see the things that don't work out. But we can focus on that and say, well, these four things didn't work out. And this one thing was amazing, but we're not going to take risks anymore. But I think we have to be thoughtful and careful about the risks we take. Because at the end of the day, and this is something I talk about regularly here, it's parents, tuition, money, for the most part, that's funding all of our endeavors. And so we want to be thoughtful and careful about how we earn it and how we innovate. And at the same time, we want to have a culture where innovation is not something that's tolerated, but that's welcome. And, you know, I wanted to ask you because I know your son was a student at Punahua School last year. And I want to ask you this question. Do you ever get the time because you're kind of centrally located on the campus to sort of walk around and see the many splinters, both at both it when you were at USC and at Punahua School? I'm just I'm that that's the best part of the job. I'm so fortunate to be on a beautiful campus where I can just walk out on my office and not just observe, but take part in what's going on. And I'll share a quick anecdote. I approached the principal of the junior school, Todd Chowhoy, and asked how I might get more involved in the junior school. You know, I lecture a couple of times a year in different classes in the academy. And I thought he might invite me to teach a, you know, personal finance or money management course for very young people. And without missing a beat, he said, gee, we can use some help serving lunch in K1. And then I said, OK, I'm up for that. I'll pay. So once a month last semester, I went over to Omidyar and served lunch for K and one. And it was actually just a really sweet reminder of one of the most precious parts of our school. These kids at this age were really learning about basic skills, you know, how to ask for more, how to clean up their trees and how to compost this part and how to recycle that part. It's it's really neat. I sit on the academy side, it's served in the middle of the campus and having an excuse to do something that I never would have thought of doing is actually enriching. But even just the fauna and floric here, there's always some white turn that, you know, is nesting in a building around here, in a tree around here and to be able to walk around and just think five minutes out of the day to experience that is really a gift. That's great. Now, I'm going to ask you a question because I one of our well, first, let me say that you join Rod McPhee, who is, you know, the president before Jim Scott, when he was having a particularly tough day at Punahou, he would he told me this and he would walk up to the to, you know, K or first grade and just sit there and watch the kids. And I what a wonderful thing to do, you know, to keep you inspired. So what a great thing, Sonny. So my question is, you know, Dr. Jim Scott, you know, before Mike Latham became president, always said that about 80 percent of is covered by tuition. And the other 20 percent is covered by, you know, advancement. And so what that means is that, you know, that every Punahou parent really is only paying 80 percent of what it costs to educate their child. Are those the figures that you would associate or are they different now? Those figures are exactly the same today. And it's true. And we talk to parents, you know, it's it's a it's a big commitment to send your child here. And, you know, for many families, it's a genuine real commitment, you have great generous financial aid, but still a commitment for many families. To me, it's more of a reminder of how we have to be careful stewards rather than, hey, education costs more than the cost price of tuition. So you should be happy. That's not the message. That's not what it's, you know, yeah, tuition doesn't cover everything. Fortunately, we have a really great advancement team and very generous donors who are alum, alums of the school and friends of the school and foundations in town that were just very grateful to have. But when I hear numbers like that, I just feel like we have to redouble our efforts to make sure we're good stewards on the expense side. We've talked about innovation. That's not really where the issues are. It's, you know, how can we at every moment be thinking this is some parent's dollars that we're spending when, you know, we want our faculty to get great professional development and they do. And when they travel, how can they be thinking as they travel? You know, how do I travel responsibly? How do I make sure that this is all sustainable? So it's true, tuition does not cover the full cost of education at Punahou and we have to be great stewards in how we spend our money. And, you know, I just had to make a personal commentary. Having been a teacher at Punahou for 28 years before I retired and I'm doing other things like this show, I felt I was treated very well. I thought my pay was extraordinarily generous. And I also felt that our retirement, you know, our ability to save for retirement was very easy. So I'm thanking you on behalf of all the vice presidents that have been at Punahou back to the 19th century. You've been very good to teachers. So thank you, Sonny. I'm thanking you as well, representative. I would just have to, before I let that go, I just have to thank the teachers here because yeah, we can say, you know, compared to, you know, the market, we feel we're doing well, but teachers' jobs are so big and so important. And, you know, the teachers I talk with, they're motivated by so much more. And it's a hard, from my perspective, I like to joke, but it's not really a joke. I lecture once or twice a year. So that's like three hours a year, let's say. And I'm exhausted. Like, OK, no more meetings the rest of the day. I just lectured an hour and a half and took some really hard questions from I could not imagine, you know, at whether it's the junior school or the academy school, just how much talent and hard work goes into that. So I really appreciate our teachers. And I think the teachers that put out from what you just described are really very interested in their subjects. And I think you're right about this. I think they get great joy out of lecturing, out of working in groups with teachers. You know, what comes to mind is that great scholar of Western history that's on your faculty, Bonnie Christensen, who is, you know, not only a great scholar, but someone who really enjoys teaching US history. And I don't think there's anyone in the country that does. Well, there may be people as good, but no one better than Bonnie Christensen in terms of teaching US history. And I just was, as an aside, just a brief anecdote. I was just at Washington Place and I was there for a celebration of the Weinberg Foundation and Newt Rostead. But a Puneau student of mine, like 95, came running up to me. You know, he's a prominent lawyer in town and said, Oh, Dr. Ackerman, I so enjoyed your history class. And I think, you know, that's, you know, you know, what kid does that? You know, every six months, you think, Oh, I really, you know, enjoyed myself. But back to you, setting. So you were also a father of a student and you and your wife were parents of a student. So how did you see the school given your financial stewardship and making everything possible? How did you see the school from that perspective? Because that's a different perspective. I have to say, when we were first considering coming here, we looked at the course catalog and we're kind of blown away by it. It was a tough decision because our son was going into 10th grade at the time, which isn't a typical year to start and, you know, making new friends. But that just seeing what was available was so compelling to all of us. And to see him take courses like glass blowing. Now, he's not going to go into glass blowing as a career, but to, you know, experience that to experience he, he was searching in the catalog in his last semester for any course that his favorite science teacher was going to teach just because he had such a great experience. So from, you know, just in terms of the academics, it was really exciting. But I'll tell you that the surprise for us was where he kind of found his home. And we hear, you know, every kid finds their place and who know, whether it's in glass blowing or in science or in choir or in orchestra. And our son's not a big athlete. And I don't think he'd mind me saying that, but he ended up becoming the statistics manager for the varsity volleyball team, which had an amazing up and down season ending with the state championship. And the coach, Rick Tune became that adult that we had heard. Every kid finds an adult they trust who kind of mentors them. We've never in a million years would have thought, oh, I bet volleyball, anything in athletics was going to be the thing he found. And it changed his life. Absolutely changed his life. He felt so included. He felt the sense of belonging. The team kind of adopted him in a way as just one of the players, even though he didn't play. He was celebrated on senior night, along with the other players. He, you know, got the award for the state championships. And it was, it was life changing in terms of being part of the team. And we never would have expected that. So that was for us as parents, the Punahou surprise about, wow, you know, anything's possible here. And given the, you know, the success of the book and movie Moneyball, you know, there may be a future career for him. And that's just, that's a, what a wonderful career. You know, we worked for Billy B to the Oakley days. Isn't that great? Yeah, to get a job with a professional, you know, and who would have thought? Because, you know, I guess in our time too, there are the people who love the statistics and the people who play the games. But wow. Yeah, I think anything's possible. And that's, that's, you know, it's going to, it's schools like us, you know, they really can, as our new mission statement counts out, this is the place to dream and discover. And, you know, it's always a surprise, it's especially from the parents that do it. That's a great story. Now, let me ask you, as we're, you know, kind of colluding this interview, you report to that wonderful historian who is president of Punahou School, Michael Latham. And what a joy to have a, you know, it must be to have a historian who is sober about everything, you know, as president of the school. But you report to the board of directors. And I wanted to ask you about that, about, you know, because you have, you know, wonderful people on the Punahou board like John Morgan, who is, you know, my ideal businessman and the business community awarded him. So I'm not speaking just alone. But what is that like? And, you know, the people seem to be, you know, all come on and very friendly. But I wanted to ask you about that because that's that's who you report. Well, technically, I report to the president, Michael Latham, but I worked very closely with the board. And I think when I came here, I just saw the board is sort of a monolith. They're the board. But really, it's 16 individual personality, 16 individual skillsets, 16 individual histories. They're all really proven in what they do, whether it's running businesses, being leaders in philanthropy, being leaders on other boards. And you mentioned John, but you could really mention each of them. But John, talk about an innovator and an innovative mindset. What he's done on Kulaw Ranch is incredible. How he's transformed it. And each of the board members has something to offer. You know, the finance chair, David Carey, who ran Albreger, has, you know, helped us bring in a financial visa plan. That I think is really exciting, at least for finance nerds like myself. But each and every one, our outgoing board chair, Connie Lau, is proven business woman. I mean, you think there's nothing left to prove. And yet here she is working with us, involved, you know, at a really high level, our incoming chair. Wendy Crabb is a really different personality, but just as dedicated as just as much to offer us. And and I got to know her as part of the volleyball family. And I'm really excited about the next two years with her at the helm. And, you know, speaking of Wendy Crabb, wasn't she a volleyball player herself like a celebrated one in California or something? Am I am I am I? And I can't I can't speak to her career. But we know her her she's so involved. She has a grandson who started on the volleyball team, varsity volleyball team here in ninth grade. And another grandson on the U of H team just graduated. And she's just a wonderful support or supporter and just has so much aloha for Booneville. So yeah, and we go through the board one by one and talk about not just their proven qualities, but what good people they are. So I feel very fortunate to be being able to be mentored, even as I don't think people on the board would think they're mentoring me, but I feel that I get mentorship from pretty much each and every one of them in one way or another. That's a lovely relationship to have because having the, you know, mentee mentor or relationship is always a very good one. So, you know, I'm going to leave the last couple of minutes to you in terms of now you moved here from Los Angeles. And I'm I'm sure the culture having grown up, as you and I talked about before, having grown up in Santa Monica and Malibu. I the culture is very different in Los in the Los Angeles area then in Honolulu and you've adapted well. You know, you you you're wearing those beautiful red aloha shirts already. And so I want to ask you, you know, what was that transition like for, you know, for you and your wife? Because that's a big that's a big transition to any place in the country, much less, you know, moving to a wonderful spot with tremendous history in them. And I'll start with we love it here and could stick could easily see never moving again. We really love it here, but it's hard to talk about the transition without talking about pandemic. My assistant at USC used to work for American Airlines. And we it was the. You know, the beginning of the pandemic, we're all freaked out. And I asked her, you know, she offered to contact her friend to see which flights were kind of empty because we were nervous about getting it. Our mother-in-law was living with us, my mother-in-law. And I'll never forget, we we left on June 27, 2020. And we were the only passengers in terminal four at LAX. Like the whole there are a couple of people who were working. We saw some flight crews and it was us, the four of us, you know, in this empty terminal. So coming here was kind of scary and they and we did. We had to do the quarantine for two weeks. And when we got out, went to serve code and got a car. And then we went to Nikos on Pier 38. And that was like day one out of and that was scary, too. Like, are we too close to anyone? But I have to say the big difference and it sounds trivial, but first people are very open. It was very easy to make friends here for our son, but for us, too, people are very open. And that was easy. But we had friends in LA, too. But the idea of like, do we want to go to Pasadena on a Saturday at noon to see them and spend an hour and a half on the freeway? Like there, it was just a pain to see people. Whereas here, it's so easy. So we, we see our friends frequently. We're building friendships. People come over, we go to their places, we go out together. And we had a New Year's party at our house two years in a row, one sort of a pandemic protocol where people would come in and when it got to many people, people would go out. But it's been great. It's a wonderful community. And of course, it's a complex place and there's a lot to learn. And the more I know, the more I realize I don't know. But I read about a dozen books about Hawaii, both fiction and nonfiction in my first year here. And there's just so much to learn, so much to know, of so many people to me, so much history, some of which is really hard and some of which I think is really exciting. But yeah, we were very grateful to have had a reason to come here. And before I ramble on it any further, I want to wrap it up. Well, thank you, Sonny. This has been a really wonderful interview. And I will leave you with this. The only thing I would suggest is before that VP, which identifies you when you should use the word mench to. So thank you, Sonny. This has been delightful. You know, and I think that everyone in our audience will now understand a great deal about financial stewardship and how important it is and the role that you play, that you played at USC and also at Putama School. Thank you, Sonny. Thank you. Pleasure is mine. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please click the like and subscribe button on YouTube. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Check out our website, thinktechawaii.com. Mahalo.