 I'm going to make an introduction. I'm going to sign a program for you for topics where I can see. I think that that is a very good question. There's only 11 people on the chat. Well, I mean, you want to suggest that it's 5 o'clock. June, your mic is on. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. My name is Steven Lugist and I'm the Education Officer for the Street Six. Welcome to this consultation on the development of a special needs education policy. Before we proceed with the discussion and the consultation, I would like to invite Mestri's Ambrose to begin with a word of prayer. Good evening, everyone. Let's just compose ourselves for prayers. Heavenly Father, we thank you this evening for this opportunity where we can reach out to those around us with special needs. I thank you, Lord, for our facilitators. I pray, Lord, for wisdom. I pray, Lord, that your spirit would be our guide this evening. I pray that the Lord, whatever we discuss, we will do it in an agreeable manner and bother. At the end of it all, it will be to your glory and to your honor. It will be to the benefit of the students among us. Please, special care, special attention. I pray your blessings upon each one of us. Every person who is part of this consultation and may your favor and grace rest upon us. Please ask in Jesus' name I pray. Amen. Thank you very much, Mestri's Ambrose. Once more, welcome to the consultation on special needs education policy and strategy. Special welcome to our consultants, Dr. Dion Edward Kerr and Dr. John Spencer Hernandez. Today, we'll be consulting with stakeholders in District 6 and District 5. The purpose of this consultation is to engage with a wide range of stakeholders in order to create a framework that addresses the diverse needs of individuals with disabilities, learning differences and unique challenges. Further, this initiative will ensure inclusive equity and support for individuals with special needs within our community. We encourage you to share your thoughts, ideas, concerns and recommendations throughout this consultation process. Your contributions will make a difference in shaping the future of special needs policy and strategy. I now hand you over to our consultants, Dr. Dion Edward and Dr. John Spencer Hernandez. Thank you and I hand over to our consultants so that we can proceed with today's deliberations. You're muted. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us and taking the time to participate in what we hopefully will be a fruitful discussion and provide us with insights from your perspectives. I'm Dion Edward Skur and my colleagues online are John Spencer Hernandez and Kathy Deppordine. Deppordine, my apologies. But they can go ahead and introduce themselves. We both, John and I are based at the University of the West Indies School of Education and the Joint Board of Teacher Education. But they can take it from here and introduce themselves. Okay, good evening all. I am John Spencer Hernandez. I am a special educator by profession. I'm a senior lecturer at the University of the West Indies and the manager of the Joint Board of Teacher Education. So this is an area that is really very special to me and happy to be here to share with you today. Kathy. Good evening, everyone. I am Kathy Deppordine, attached to the South Alois Community College. I currently serve as the head of the Modern Language Learning Unit and a teacher educator. I am heavily involved in educational research, particularly that which affects policy development and I look forward to this evening's discussions. Okay, thank you both. Okay, we're going to start off, the presentation as tight as possible. So we're going to start with just sharing an outline. The presentation is actually in two parts, the background which I will present and the policy and strategic goals which both John and Kathy will present. Now, the idea is to be sure that we can get this done in good time so that we have enough space for persons to ask questions and to add their comments. And we're going to ask you to be as candid and as forthright as possible, both in your questions and in your comments because these will help to refine this policy. These will help to sharpen anything that might not be on point, but the context and the situation in St. Lucia and so we're asking you as a special favor to be as open as possible in your questioning and in your comments. Okay, so start from the perspective of what the objectives of the terms of reference were and what we were asked to do. So fundamentally, as you can see, we were asked to prepare a gender-sensitive special education needs policy and national policy and the objective of that from the point of view of the government of St. Lucia is really to transform the education system in order to make it responsive to the needs of all children and it's important that we focus on all because all really means all regardless of their abilities, regardless of where they're from, it really means all and this actually comes out of the idea that all children have the right entitled to a quality education and St. Lucia being very much aware of that is really trying to chart its part, its pathway to ensuring that the system is transformed to be able to respond to all children. Now, as I said, our specific remit was to prepare a gender-sensitive policy and strategy to provide the best options for educating children with special needs in the least restrictive environment. Now this last term, least restrictive environment, my colleague Joan will speak to in detail later. But one of the things I want to highlight is the issue of what gender-sensitive really means. Now, on the spectrum of dealing with gender from being... You lost you, Dylan. And so the idea of gender-sensitivity is the notion of awareness and a sense that we're aware that there are some situations and most situations in which boys and girls, male and females experience it differently. And so what we've attempted to do in this in following the definition of gender-sensitivity according to UNESCO is to ensure that all the data was disaggregated in terms of male and female. So we understood male-female and female dropout from school and retention quite. We saw those patterns that emerged from that data. So it's important to highlight this that throughout the aim is because the focus is on inclusivity. The aim is to ensure that all children, male or female, and wherever they are in life are able to receive from this policy. So, of course, this aligns with the government's strategic mandate to ensure that the system of education is improved and the children have pathways, quality pathways that can make them productive citizens. Now, the policy issue really is that the fact that there are gaps in the system, that there are barriers to learning that arise when learning leads in the classroom are not met and that learning needs stem from a range of factors. And you'll notice here and throughout the conversation we use S-E-N-D rather than S-E-N. And the addition of S-E-N-D is the recognition that the range of factors that make children vulnerable are beyond disabilities and include the list of things that are here, impairments, psychosocial disturbances, differences in abilities, life experiences, deprivation, negative attitudes, inaccessible curriculum, inaccessible or unsafe environments, policies and legislation and education managers and teachers, lack of skills or inappropriate skills. It is on the basis of this. This is what the policy issue really is. It is St. Lucia's recognition that all children, again the word all, need educational support and this support should be an integral part. It should be embedded in the school system and by all we mean all children from the profoundly disabled to those who are superially gifted and talented. And that's really what all means. It's the gamut of all the needs, all the abilities, all the circumstances that affect children's lives and put them at risk. So in terms of our approach, we took a two-prong approach basically. We conducted a desk review so that desk review included a review of all the documents related to education, particularly education act, the draft special needs policy that has been in draft for some time and of course the analysis of statistical data that would show us what school outcomes have been over several number of years. And we also, as an important part of this conducted five well, I say consultative meetings here, but there were really interviews in-depth, semi-structured interviews that allowed us to get the viewpoints of parents, the students themselves across the districts, principals, executives in the ministry, the special education officers, special educators, NGOs, the teachers' union, the principals' union, and various organizations like the St. Lucia Blind Welfare. And this allowed us to conduct the policy analysis that now form the basis of this policy. So here why this is here. This is saying that we've not pulled these ideas out of our head or we've just applied some kind of academic notion to this. The policy is evidence-based. It's based on the research that we've conducted. We've heard from people. We're coming back to you again. Having heard from you, having written the policy, we are now back to you to say, is this what it should look like? So that's the purpose of this meeting really. Have we caught it? And so that's why what we need to hear from you. So in terms of stakeholders, the stakeholders' main concern were the gaps in terms of service delivery for children and our young people, our high school students, our primary and our high school students who needed services. Services that would allow them to learn in that least restrictive environment that Joan would talk about and least restrictive meaning most enabling the place where they can actually learn. The place where their needs can be met. And so they are stakeholders highlighted that there were gaps in the curriculum, in intervention programs, in assessment, in accountability and support services that there were gaps in appropriate placement options. So things that Joan will speak to this again. Things around there are some children in special schools who really don't belong there. The long wait times for assessment, the long wait times for interventions, qualified special educations. So those are some of the things that came up in the policy analysis. And I recall that across all the secondary schools that where we met with the children particularly I recall the secondary school children being quite vocal about the fact that the curriculum and the instruction for students with SCN was not suitable for them particularly to help them to transition from secondary school to further education or to work. And so there were gaps in basically skills training and gaps in the school to work transition. In terms of the desk review we learned that and saw in the analysis of the Education Act that although St. Lucia was a signatory to the several conventions which we'll point to later that in truth and in fact the Act wasn't fully aligned with the core idea in some of those conventions and moreover that although a draft policy exists it wasn't backed up by the legislation and so it didn't really give it any teat to work. So we are hoping that this policy will have some teat. So what else did we find out? We found out that the special education unit did not have a multidisciplinary team specifically in relation to how that's defined within the industry. So the need for a clinical psychologist, an occupational therapist, a physiotherapist and all these experts who can assess the children and provide the kind of intervention they need in addition the referral process although it exists was not as clear for some people as we would expect in addition in terms of school outcomes when we looked at the statistical data we realized that over time some children fell out of the system for one reason or the other because there are several things that can make them special several of them repeated there's a quite high level of repetition at the primary school level K grade one and grade three and I can see grade three because we saw that from as early as MST2 the MST2 results we could see that their children when we follow them when we follow those children from grade two and into secondary school we realize that those the results that we then seen secondary actually started in MST2 so in truth and in fact those are some of the gaps we have to plug in terms of ensuring that the children get the kind of remediation that they need very early and this is something that both Joan and Kathy will talk about earlier identification and how that is done and who does it and how that can help the children so what are the guiding principles we spoke earlier that St. Lucia was signatory to several international conventions there are also signatories and owners of several regional policy frameworks so for example they are signatory to the convention and the rights of the child and that dictates that every child every single child has the right to a quality education regardless of background regardless of ability that and especially now that relates to the convention and the rights for persons with disabilities and the fact that every child who has any kind of disability has the right to an education right of course the SDGs strategic development goals of 2020 and the focus again on improving quality education and providing an education system that is included regionally the CARICOM human resources development strategy and the OECS education strategy are the five things that underpinned that guided our analysis and we drew from in order to provide a framework that we will now present so I'm going to pause here and ask for any questions and answers and any comments anyone the floor is open okay so okay we have one hand up and I'm quite timid I must say in any French pronunciations otherwise so I'm just going to ask you to go ahead and speak okay it's not French really it's just pronounced Cleo for just as it spells good afternoon everyone but do you understand my vulnerability absolutely that's a problem okay so yes earlier you mentioned inflexible curriculum as one of the key issues I think sometimes also inflexible assessment methods and tools are used I can share with you a personal experience where that is concerned when my son was about four what I mean he's a university student now he's one semester away from graduating but when he was four years old unlike his sisters he wasn't speaking very he wasn't speaking very clearly his sisters by the time they were two and a half three they could speak fluently but for him it was a little bit different so the pediatrician said to me when she was doing the assessment prior to him going to to grade K when she did the assessment I observed that the questions that she was asking him when she was gathering the data she one of the questions she asked him was she knocked on the front door of her office she knocked on the front door which was made of wood and she said David what is this he said a door she said no that's not the answer I'm looking for there was a cupboard in her office she knocked on that that was also made of wood she said what is this he repeated a door I'm listening to the pediatrician and thinking to myself well that would have been my answer and based on that she decided that there was an issue my son needed to go to the Donata school for further assessment so she said to my husband and I he's not giving me answers that I'm looking for I said what answer were you looking for she said I was looking for wood and I'm thinking to myself I'm an intelligent person but anyway so she gave us the referral card and so on we went to the Donata school my son the person who was there at the time did the assessment and we were asked to come back again okay because again I listened to the questions that you know the questions that were used to conduct the assessment and some of these was so they were so stringent it's like they were not willing to you know to bend a little to try something else it wasn't until this when we went I think it was a third time we met this Australian speech and language therapist she was doing her masters at the time and she was in St. Lucia I guess she was working on her thesis or whatever but my son she met with my son and you know my husband and I were in the room and she asked my son how many sisters how many sisters do you have at home and my son said none so she looked at myself and my husband because I mean you know we have two daughters none then she she looked at my husband and myself you know with a concerned look on her face she said who's Stephanie so my son said my sister he said who's Chelsea my son answered my sister she said but David you just told me you have no sisters at home and anyway I guess she was a little tired too she you know in fairness to her she had probably seen a lot of kids so she started flipping through she looked a little frustrated and she was flipping through other cards I guess looking for other questions and so on and my son who was not shy at all he got up he touched her arm she said excuse me miss today is Tuesday my sisters are both at school it was 10 o'clock in the morning and she you know she didn't really catch on to that she was still flicking through her papers and she said okay that's nice David and she was flicking and she said wait a minute she said today is Tuesday my sisters are both at school and she repeated it again and she said wait a minute you alright David I did say how many sisters do you have at home and then you know she questioned him a little further and so on but bottom bottom line is when she by the time she was done questioning my son she realized that and she actually admitted that she said there is nothing wrong with this child we have just been asking him the wrong questions she said he's paid close attention to detail so the fact that I said at home his sisters are at school so there is he doesn't have sisters at home and then she continued to question him and so on and my goodness for months after that after he did not have to go back there because that was the last session he wanted to go back there to play with the big there was a big yellow ball that the two of them were bouncing up and down and he wanted to go back there but you know long story short the inflexibility also lies within the assessment methods and tools that we use and that could be a little bit dangerous okay thank you so much yes thank you let me to respond yes go ahead Joan please okay thank you so much for that mom yes that's one of the areas that we are looking at because we recognize and it's a wonderful example that you just gave because we have to be more agile, flexible we have to make sure that the items are culturally relevant that they're on point and so on so one of the things that you will see later as we talk about what we are recommending is that we look we examine very carefully the instruments that we are using to label youngsters and to place them in different kinds of programs so thank you for that very welcome I think we can take one more comment or question before we move on alright let's go on we're going to move on thank you so over to Joan and Kathy to the second part of the presentation thank you Dion okay so I'm going to start with what the shared with you the overall policy goal and the six policy components attached to the policy goal if you look at the diagram you will see that access to quality inclusive education is at the heart of everything that we're doing yes includes so the overall policy goal is that inclusion is systemic and learners with special education needs and disabilities have access to high quality appropriate education to meet their individual needs now what do we mean by special education needs and disabilities as Dion had mentioned earlier we're looking at children with disabilities and there are roughly about 14 or so categories and those are the ones that you'd be pretty much aware of such as children on the autism spectrum we have specific learning disabilities like children with dyslexia and difficulty learning to read dyscalculia difficulty learning mathematical concepts and so on there are those children with emotional problems behavior disorders physically disabled children who maybe visually impaired or auditory impaired so the blind the deaf hearing impaired and so on speech and language issues that they may have so those categories of disabilities we know that all of those children are vulnerable however there's like an even larger group of children within our school system they're there some of these children are not attending regularly maybe because of the poverty level their parents are not able to send them out every day and they're not getting the requisite services to ensure that they're in school every day there are those children who maybe so emotionally disturbed yes that is on the disabilities and there are those who are gifted and talented who will need a special program because we don't want to bore them to death and allow behavioral disorders to creep in when the curriculum is so inflexible that here you are in grade one learning one plus one equals two when they are way ahead of the game what do we do to take care of their individual needs right there are children who have nutritional issues and because of those nutritional issues they are not doing as well as they should there are those who have language issues so the beautiful French Creole may actually be influencing the way in which they acquire school language which is standard solution English so that may be what is impacting learning because they are not yet they are not going between two languages yes so there are issues that can create that kind of problem you know they are under achieving and so they need special attention in addition to those with disabilities now what are the six policy components that will enable the achievement of these overall policy goals and again as Deon mentioned we were able to glean these from all the the desk review that we did from the interviews with persons stakeholders teachers and so on Deon had mentioned them and one of the things is what are the organizational structures that are absolutely necessary to allow access to quality inclusive education to be workable to be successful so we are going to look at the different at the different levels at the school level the district level the ministry level and so on what are these structures that should be in place to enable access and then we need to look at what are the infrastructural provisions and support mechanisms that are necessary to make access a reality so do we need ramps do we need other kinds of structural adjustment to enable a student with wheelchair or walker many of these students may not have intellectual challenges it's a physical challenge so what happens when you look at the University of the West Indies Mona you will see many of these students who are there and they are doing as well and even better than many of many of our other students because there's nothing wrong intellectually they do have physical challenges so we have to remove those barriers to enable them to maximize their true potential then we need to look at human resource provisions we need to look at quantity how many of special educators do we need how many speech and language pathologies the clinical psychologists and so on and not only how many but the quality the quality what are the minimum training requirements that they must have to be able to function in our schools and to deliver services then we need to look at the curriculum is it still designed for every single learner meaning or is it designed for every single learner or is it designed for those children who are straight up average down the line what about those children who are in grade three for argument's sake and are way ahead of the grade three curriculum what about those grade three students who are not yet reading on grade level who have difficulty keeping up with the grade three curriculum what do we do are we differentiating are we meeting their needs or are we curriculum centered teacher centered and so on that we forget the needs of the children so what adaptations and modifications need to be made to the curriculum is what we are also looking at stakeholder involvement extremely important that parents understand their rights and privileges just like their children and the various stakeholders within the society private sector public sector the international agencies and so on who are our stakeholders and how do they get involved so that we may enhance the programs at the various levels and very very very important is the fact that we need to look at our identification systems what are we doing in terms of identifying our children with special education needs and disabilities once you have identified them what are we doing when it comes to intervention what are the programs needed to maximize their potential and all wrapped up in that where do we place them do they get placed in a general education classroom with services brought to them do they go to a special school do they go to a special class within a special within a general education setting so all of these must be taken into consideration for us to have access to quality inclusive education and I'm going to go in further details with each of these I'll do three and Kathy will present the other three go ahead Deon okay so the very first one we're looking at is identification intervention and placement and the policy goal all learners with SEND special education needs and disabilities have access to quality appropriate inclusive education with free and compulsory primary and secondary education in their communities with their peers unless it is clearly demonstrated that the child's educational welfare and social needs may not be adequately met in a general education classroom it's important to note that St. Lucia already has free and compulsory primary and secondary education but is this extended to our children who have who have sent it has to it has to happen yes but then maybe they're being asked to fund aspects of the their program their intervention program or their assessment so we're saying they are entitled to free and compulsory primary and secondary education and as much as possible they must be placed within their communities with their peers unless what is happening to them and may impact others or may not be well met in a general education classroom so what are the things that are necessary now to when we talk about identification intervention and placement one early identification systems we must be able to identify as early as possible what their needs are some children from birth ministry of health knows that this child has some problems child may be born with some physical handicapping conditions right or physical disabilities because we're only handicapped when we don't have corrective measures or barriers are not removed if I remove this glasses right now I will be handicapped because I would not be able to read what is happening here but so I am visually impaired but with the glasses I'm fine and it's no longer a handicapping condition because I can read with the glasses similarly if I have a wheelchair and that's what's going to make me mobile then I'm not handicapped I simply have a physical disability or an impairment but it's fixed because I'm not able to move around in my wheelchair so the early identification system may pick up at birth some of the issues some children it's not going to manifest until age six or so and then there are those for example who go on to high school did extremely well and suddenly this child is acting up and when we and the work is suffering the child is aggressive or may have withdrawn into self when we get behind it there may be physical abuse, sexual abuse, verbal abuse something has changed in that child's life and as a response the child is now showing some other symptoms and it's affecting educational achievement in that situation that was the earliest possible time when the child hit high school that we noticed this so anywhere along the line hopefully as young as possible then we are able to start the intervention early and that will make the prognosis much better. We also here you go mommy culturally relevant and standardized assessment instruments that speak to the needs and the nuances the things about us as Caribbean people as Saint Lucians are any of the items biased against the children are we interpreting incorrectly their responses or is it the item is so badly formed that the children don't fully understand what is required of them so we need to examine the instruments that we use not just take them from wherever they come and then they are problematic and giving us diagnosis that we cannot stand by and that we don't even trust sometimes so we have to look at that placement in the least restrictive most enabling environment range of possible placements that a child may have once a special education need and disabilities identified so the one that is the most supposed to be the most suitable the most enabling and least restrictive should be a general education classroom where their services are brought to them therefore they are able to interact with their peers and have that kind of social emotional development at that level and so on however if the child needs demand that the child should be in a special school because at this point in time this is the best placement for this child giving all the presenting problems and maybe the child can go into generally but in a special class where there is some interaction depending on what is happening P, E and and so on but there is that kind of environment within the general education classroom or within a general education school so we want a range of placement options as you know there are children who are incarcerated they're in particular kinds of facilities because they mess with the law and so they have to face the consequences is that their education continues in that setting that they're in teenagers or even if you're not a teen and you're pregnant what happens during that period does your education continue so we want to know whatever environment that you are in that it is not restricting you from maximizing your full potential then we want to look at the intervention program development what kinds of intervention programs individualized education plans and so on what do we have are they meeting the needs of the children once we have identified that there are needs right then we want to look at the transition and levels of education so if I'm in kindergarten it's a big deal when I transition into grade one different levels of expectations in kindergarten I may be allowed to sleep and do certain things suddenly in grade when I must sit up nicely in the chair and I must go through this the whole day and just lunch and break time and you know it's very different I'm not a baby anymore and then when I hit grade four now you're saying oh you're in the school so you're you're to behave differently in grade four five and six and then you're going to transition a big big big deal is not to transition to high school where you've gone from one nice lady or gentlemen taking care of you all day to all these people who just come in and out of your life for the rest for a given day and the expectations are different so how do we handle that transition period some children fall apart during the transition and therefore we have to put systems in place to deal with that referral systems extremely important how do we go about at the school level identifying and making referrals how do parents go about making referrals anyone who who wants to make a referral because they have noticed something outside of the so-called norm that's happening to this child what are the stages what does it look like and how effective what are the things to be in place to make it highly effective that's what we're looking at go ahead so at this point we're asking you based on identification intervention and placement is there any questions anything anything you would love to have clarified or just have a comment on what you just heard and so okay if all is clear please make notes as we go along and Joyty Cleo wants to say something again okay go ahead Cleo hi sorry don't mean to dominate the conversation but I was just thinking while you were speaking with respect to the you know not so smooth transition process sometimes by the way I'm from south of Louis south but I speak a lot about my experience with my kids as a parent okay so with respect to the transition period okay moving from the preschool to kindergarten I heard a lot of teachers I mean you know my kids had wonderful teachers I must say but I did hear you know those comments very often about kids that could not really make the transition so smoothly about all the charges just spoiled you know they think they are babies they want to you know they think they are still they think they are still at the preschool I mean we are my kids well the girls my son didn't have that problem but the two girls they refused to use the washroom at the infant school okay they refused to use the washroom because they come from an area where they had you know the nice washrooms clean washrooms and so on at the preschool all of a sudden you have you know 30 40 whatever number of persons using that washroom one washroom assigned to them so I remember after picking them up when they got home just give them just give them room okay otherwise they are going to have an accident at the front they would just not use the washroom at the primary school so the other complaint was there isn't even a mat in the grade K class you know there isn't even a mat they come from the preschool where they are used to having you know sitting on their little mat and you know they do their reading and so on they go to the primary school and they are expected to sit on those hard chairs and even me as an adult these things hurt my bottom so you can imagine what that does to you know what that does for five year old you know so all of these things sometimes we we don't take them into consideration and when the kids act up sometimes we say oh they are just spoiled and you are no longer at preschool even when the kids go to the secondary school again some of some of our policies and in some cases it's not even the policies but some of our habits as educators I would say we we don't our attitudes sometimes don't help with the with the transition okay I remember teachers saying to me even you know I mean I won't even tell you my age but when I remember trying to you know trying to adjust at the secondary school level I will tell you okay you are young adult now okay so you know it's almost as if you were expected to magically make the transition without any assistance you know and even for us at the college we have to accept some responsibility for these things as well because when the kids are coming from the secondary school where everything is you know everything is structured everything you know they have their nine to the eight to what is it eight to three or I'm scheduled that they have but when they come to the college we we are sometimes not even conscious of the fact that they are not the flexibility that they have at college they are not used to that at the secondary school so yes so I'm glad that we are putting things in place you know to you know as part of our policies to ensure that you know we help with that transition thank you so much contribution transition is indeed important as you move from one stage to the next and the support is needed and sometimes that's why we lose the kids because they are not able to make that transition smoothly okay okay organizational structures policy overall policy goal policy and strategies describe how support structures at all levels will be organized to enable schools to effectively implement inclusive education now whether or not we know and we accept our schools have children with special education needs and disabilities included in the general education classroom that's where most of them are because our special schools have a limited amount of children however the concept of inclusion goes beyond just having them there it must mean that you provide the services to ensure that they can maximize their potential so with organizational structures necessary when it comes to financing monitoring and evaluation extremely important that the budget speaks to line items within education related to special education related to equipment material and so on that are necessary to enhance access to make sure access is going to be activated in a way that it can be successfully implemented then we're going to look at and in doing that when you put money into things or when you put energy and time you must monitor and evaluate to ensure that what you intend to do is actually happening yes so pair stakeholders must be a part of that monitor then there's general education or inclusive schools what are the structures to make our general education schools truly inclusive school yes so we need to look at the principal the training the staffing and so on material equipment technology and so on then material getting an echo now okay for post secondary education we're also looking beyond secondary schools what are the structures necessary to ensure access special schools are definitely a part of what we're also looking at because at the special school level what is being offered there must be able to allow the children placed there to truly maximize their potential and become productive citizens of St. Lucia so they too will have to be Dion can you mute the person whose mic is open okay so for inclusive special education units those that are placed in schools to ensure that there's that kind of integration what kind of structure must be in place to make that workable so that the children are not segregated and isolated in a way that they feel badly about self and that social emotional side of them is not developing as it should how do we structure the inter sectoral inter ministerial plan where we have ministry of health education social welfare gender issues any agency or any ministry that has a part of what we consider to be our children in education and therefore we need to know what you're doing and how we can collaborate in the best interests of this child because ministry of health has data that we need you know but they may be holding on to it because it's private it's confidential and so on but we also need to know that so is there some place where we can have all this data where we can have all this data that we still need to which still maintains confidentiality and so on and if you are there are some of our children who are long term in hospital we need to know we need to know how to get services of that child to enable that child's continued education and so on social welfare may actually be funding you to get to school through whatever programs they may have enough to stretch to do everything so once we have this kind of collaboration then we know what each other is doing and we know how to spend what we have in the best interests of that child so the organizational structures will be at different levels the school level the district level the department level and so on home and community level what is necessary for all of this to work and go on Dion any questions on organizational structures before I go to the third one which I believe go to the next one just checking quickly whether there are any questions or comments in the chat I'm not seeing any in the chat okay anyone wants to contribute if not then we can go on and you can do it at the end if you prefer to do it that way right go ahead Dion hi good evening I have a question Hedjana James the principal of the OJ Combined School and you're speaking about the organizational structure I understand the thrust is to ensure that there is inclusiveness in our nation's schools yeah can you outline to me what what is the proper path that should be followed if a child of special needs is discovered within a community what is the proper path what is the right way in which a school should be informed of such and what support if any should a school expect from for lack of a better expression those above the principal's pay grade okay so this is what this policy is all about looking at the gaps we recognize that we heard from your schools we heard from your principals we heard from the teachers what those challenges are and how we meet a child who has so let's walk through quickly so we recognize that this child let's say the child is in grade 2 and reading well below age and grade expectancy level so the teacher is the one who made a referral in grade 2 that this child having gone through K having gone through grade 1 now in grade 2 this child is still having challenges still not able to recognize numbers and letters and the sounds the letters make and so on parent needs to be informed that we have a challenge and if once a parent comes in we are advocating that there must be a school based team to start with so that school based team would have teacher reps and would have if there's a special educator available at the school the district office then that special educator should be a part of that team where the evidence is brought forward and examined that's the first level of referral once the evidence is examined and the school says yes we're going to develop a program we're going to try first we don't think that this case needs to be referred to the district or to the department for the multidisciplinary team to come in as yet we're going to try some things because we recognize a child is lagging behind so we're advocating that in cases where the school decides we're going to try then an intervention is done and there's a review once that there's a review you determine whether it's termally, monthly or whatever that review that's going to take place then decisions would have to be made about wow I think we really need a team now because having done X, Y and Z it's not working to the best way that we would like it to work so here you might have the referral made through the district for the team a full team to assess this child let's say the child is diagnosed with a specific learning disability and the child is dyslexic difficulty learning to read and when you look at all of that now you're saying this child does not need to be segregated into a special school the best placement for this child is a general education inclusive school with services brought to the child this is where now we're advocating on behalf of your schools that the structure be in place now to provide the schools with what they need the materials, the equipment the support services through whether it be a pathway coach special educator and so on and also in-service training for your teachers to be able to differentiate instruction to meet different needs groups of learners because as it is right now in your school there's no such homogeneous grouping where everybody's at the same level the grade so even when you stream and find that let's say we have three classes in a grade and so you have stream ABC none of these streams will be perfectly homogeneous so there are going to be differences in those groups so you will still have to differentiate instruction and the best way actually is to do mixability groupings and to provide levels of teaching and so on the curriculum as we mentioned early has to have adaptations and modifications for the teacher to be able to apply that level of differentiation to say okay in my grade two class I have beginning readers I also have children who are reading at grade one level and I have some children at grade three level so how do I prepare teaching them and I'm going to ensure that I do differentiation to bring everybody up so along the path they're different so you have your referral and you have we're making recommendations as to what kinds of treatment what model is necessary for intervention to be successful and what placement yes so there may also be a child who is visually impaired or blind who can cope in a general education classroom once we put remove the barriers the obstacles that may create problems for that child and if the child has the technology to use not just the brain alone but their computers now that turn the child can listen to all that the teacher is saying and doing and the visual things are being converted to auditory things and so on so and it depends on the readiness of a particular school and what are the things necessary to accommodate children who are visually impaired children who are hearing impaired and the whole spectrum of other children with disabilities so good question and this is what the total package is about what are the things that are necessary to enable a Gen Ed school to become inclusive okay so if I may further expound on my question you have explained what happens in the general education setting with students within our scope our normal realm but what happens when a child from the outside is identified what should the process be how does the child is not in your school at all but has been the child is not speaking the child was not a member of the school population the child was identified externally what would explain externally could you please explain externally to this child at home not going to school at all at home and not at school at all and yes maybe someone like go ahead I just wanted to find out what that child that child that child coming straight from home and we have many such cases all over the region because some parents choose not to have their child in the regular system or not even in a special school some children are hidden because their parents are still in denial and so on and sometimes these community members who go to a proper agency to say we know of a child who is home so the same applies that child needs to be seen directly because there are several things happening here the school attendance officer somebody has to know that this child is not attending school at all so there are several processes procedures but let's say the department the special education unit would have to be drawn in right away on that child because you have no data in school on that child you have no evidence of what the child can and cannot do so what you have to do immediately before a child is registered in a school that well and the child can be registered because if that's the nearest school and all of that but immediately that multidisciplinary team must be called upon to assess the child to give you the data you need if that school if the general school is appropriate placement for that child part is her intervention if however it's not the appropriate placement the placement might very well be in a special school to get the child started bring the child up to a particular level and then reintegrate because that child may not have intellectual challenges may not have disabilities may just be a child with emotional disturbances and even if the child had any of the 14 or so disabilities still deserves an appropriate education and access to education facilities but then as you said the child has just been pulled out of home no information known on this child then the department must act to ensure that the child is tested a diagnosis made parents brought in parents trained to because for too long this child has gone without services before the child can be integrated in a general education classroom coming from and it also depends on the child's age okay so perfect with this I've understood but when we look at the assessment by the MDT team would it be right that the child is registered on onto a school's special education portal without having a conversation prior to the school at hand is that normal practice or should there have been communication prior so that everyone would have been on the same page and then to allow the school to at least ensure that it was or it is retrofitted to accommodate to the child you are correct sometimes what happens though there's a rush to place because child's rights are being violated and so sometimes what we do in the system is to even when we quickly try to place a child and then back up to do the assessments and all of that a school must be informed a discussion must be had with the school at look we have this child there are some issues we are not we are going to be assessing the child is on the waiting list or we are bringing the child forward and so on we need to check to see how ready your school is depending on the needs of the child how the child presents and all of these things must be taken into consideration and a consultation with the school is very important so that you are ready or you may say wow I am not sure we are in a position at this point to include a child with these kinds of issues let's talk about it what else we would need in our school to be able to do that so yes a conversation must be had should be had thank you very much I love the use of the word consultation and the fact that the school should have been or should be given a choice to determine their state of readiness and like I have always said every single child deserves a right for education but I would just like as we go forward with the special education bill that we are not too quick to make decisions and to put the school out on a stressful end that we ensure that the necessary support is provided for the school and that we look at all children as being equal and our aim as educators should be to allow every single child irrespective of their disability an opportunity to achieve some level of success so thank you very much you have explained my question eloquently I appreciate it thank you thank you I am going to say though and I really appreciate a question and all of that there are however some schools that even with the conversation even with the collaboration they are resistant to change they don't want they want the perfect human being and there is no such thing father god didn't make us like that so there are those principals those teachers within the system who will fight hard to ensure that they keep certain children out and certain children also affect the overall results so the whole matter of assessment and how a school is viewed we have to change how we think about it because we have to look at value added not just simply the results of a test and therefore there are different sides to this kind that we need to have that open conversation to ensure that we are doing the best by way of our children thank you direct mist or the scenario I just brought to you was my school's context so it was something that I experienced just recently from September up until now so I just wanted to because the conversation has not been had since I do not know why everyone has shied away from the conversation since but the student is at school the student is doing well but it was a situation where a conversation was had I would not necessarily call it a consultation it was a situation where the student was registered onto the school's special needs portal without any communication with the head of the school which would have made myself and the child was only registered towards the end of the first term so I am saying all of this to say that sometimes we need to be mindful of how we act and let us do things properly I operated for conscience it is not all about my school is not just about academics it's about having students achieve their best all I in my case all I waited for would have been support and that support never came so it was one where I had to find the support for the student myself through the help of corporate society and I am using this example to ensure that as we move forward that no other principal has to experience what I have gone through because it was an extremely stressful and emotional period because we want to ensure that we treat children properly we treat children with dignity we want to ensure that as long as the child is enrolled at our institution we know that we are 100% and solely responsible for their care and their safety so we want to ensure that all of the amenities as much as humanly possible would allow for a smooth transition for a student so that is why I got the question up. Thank you so much and I am happy to hear the student is doing well Yes it is Thank you. You are welcome Hi Joan I did share with you and Dion, sorry good evening everyone a comments slash question that I think is of value to this discussion pertains to gifted and talented students okay let me see okay so it is saying here a concern is equal with those who are gifted and talented and those who must start school early okay now the gifted and talented child is a part of this plan as a child with special education needs internationally they are recognized as having special education needs so because they have these needs if we don't identify them as such and provide curricular adaptations and modifications enrichment programs and so on at every level kindergarten level it is not only education some gifted and talented children depending on their level of maturity can be accelerated but for the most part I can tell you or emotional self or emotional IQ is not usually as advanced as or intellectual side and therefore many times gifted and talented children will suffer if they are put with older children and expect to behave in a particular way there are still little kids I was watching a movie just today and today is a national holiday in Jamaica so I was watching a movie while I should be at work it's Ash Wednesday it's a national holiday and there was this little gifted girl who was being and it's a true story who is in college at 9 but her parents have to take her to play with her peers her little games that little girls will be playing at that age separate and apart from being in college she's a mathematician of no mean order yes so we have to accommodate these children in Jamaica for example some of our known I'm not saying that children with gifts and talents end up being criminals some of them have gone that way because we have never understood them they are made some of them organize high levels of criminal activities right here at home we've heard about them we've heard how their primary school could not maintain them there was one his situation was such he read off all the books in the junior library and at a tender age they had to make him register in the senior library and right through high school nobody could contain him and he turned to organizing criminal activities so what we're and a lot of them become aggressive or depressed because we are not catering to their needs and just as how we would want to cater to a child who's visually impaired and provide all the things necessary for that child to be successful and to be and to adapt in the regular school system is the same way for the gifted and talented child we must recognize those talents we must recognize those gifts and do even within the classroom the enrichment programs are found necessary and if there is if the acceleration is is appropriate for that because it is assessment is an individualized thing so we can generalize from one gifted child to the other that this child deserves or should be accelerated skip a grade yes as we usually was done in the past no it depends on the level of maturity of that child that you would make certain decisions but if the child is not being accelerated by grade you can be accelerated within your classroom setting through differentiated instruction so yes or gifted and talented children are part of an integral part of what we are promoting here I am not seeing another hand I am going to go forward okay so my last discussion with you is about curricular adaptations and modifications so the chief education officer will institute programs promoting equity and quality inclusive education that will ensure that the varying needs of learners will be facilitated through curricular accommodations modifications and adaptations and adaptive and assistive technology which will allow all children to optimize their potential all of that is saying hey examine your curriculum is it a one size fits all curriculum because that is not going to be appropriate in this side of the 21st century no we recognize that all these years and some of the challenges we have had and the failures we have had had to do with this one size fits all curriculum and Saint Lucia has led the way in the region by virtue of examining their curriculum and saying look we are going to have tiered levels so we recognize that even though you may be in this grade you are not yet ready for this grade or you have exceeded the grade expectation so we are making some modifications so that the teacher who is working with you will understand that if this particular outcome is not good enough or appropriate enough for all the children in my class here are some alternatives that you may use for those children who are falling behind so you can bring them up while you work with your middle group, while you have your accelerated group doing what is appropriate for their level so everybody is being attend to everybody's needs some learners like myself, I am not a good auditor learner, I am a strong visual learner and also I am a strong kinesthetic tactile learner when I do things I learn more, when I am engaged I learn more, when I see the things I learn more so my preference is that are we teaching in that way to ensure that the different learning styles are learning preferences are being catered to, the different levels of achievement and so on so what are the adaptations we are looking at now and it is a kindergarten to form 5 where we are saying look examine your national curriculum, is it tiered TIERED is it tiered so that every child in that classroom can access their objectives for different groups of learners so my overall objective may be to teach everybody to draw conclusions based on what is read or seen or heard or whatever and so everybody is going to learn to draw conclusions or to make inferences but when it comes to the activity now I may have to give one group an easier maybe some pictures to draw conclusions make inferences or a simple passage at their level, another group might get a more difficult passage to read and so on so how do we cater to their needs from kindergarten to form 5 then preservice teacher training programs at the teacher training college we must include as compulsory courses that deal with an awareness and strategies for dealing with children with varying needs so that the young teacher does not graduate and suddenly goes into a school and finds oh my gosh I can cater to the needs of all these learners some of these learners have never met this in college that has to stop the course must be one that is compulsory because that's what exists in our classes mixability groups of children alright in service teacher training programs have to be ongoing have to be regular now we know that they're happening but the teachers are saying we need more we need more intensive training because we are not aware of some of these things that we are asked to do so more has to happen there universal desire for learning which promotes response to intervention differentiated instruction all these are necessary for us to meet the needs of every single child in the classroom assessment accommodation mom spoke about that earlier where what are they apart from having challenges with the the validity and reliability of some of these instruments when it comes to administering a test CXC allows you to have a reader once you are properly diagnosed yes they allow you to have a writer they allow you extra time if that's what's going to help you to maximize your performance and this test all of these things are allowed and they're also allowed in your national tests however at the school level it doesn't happen so if we know that children can do better if we give them more time 10 more minutes 15 more minutes because we already know what their challenge is some children can write quickly they have fat and motor coordination problem so if we say one over test and everybody's writing I am being disadvantaged because I can't write as fast as the others yes the world has changed there are some all the way up to a PHD or a medical doctor and so on there are universities in England in the United States in all parts of Europe where you can be orally tested and you will have a doctor who you know can really is not the best of readers this is lexic yes but that is a he's a fantastic doctor he can write that prescription and he can diagnose what is happening with you so we have to at every level start to think of how else can we assess our children what accommodations can we make when it comes to assessment okay that's the end of my time with you any questions concerns issues before Kathy takes the stage okay I don't see it go ahead given the time frame right now yes yes okay so good evening again everyone in terms of the another focus area of this policy it will look specifically at infrastructural provisions and the support mechanisms so the overall policy goal related to this area of focus is that the government of St. Lucia through the department of education will provide those structures and systems that will provide a reasonable accommodation and in the form of adaptations resources and support that will optimize those opportunities and outcomes for learners with send and having to do so within what is truly an inclusive environment now in order for that policy goal to really come to fruition a number of areas will be given focus so for instance one of those areas is that of accessible classrooms and buildings so the intent of the policy for instance when it comes to this area is to consider for instance which aspects of buildings will be adjusted or improved now once that is done there would need to be other considerations so for instance accessibility of classrooms and buildings will take into consideration the provision of ramps the provision of handrails the need to widen doorways again the focus is accessibility additionally consideration would be given to accessible toilet facilities we heard the reference to preserving the dignity of our send learners placing them in environments that will allow them to flourish so certainly access to toilet facilities cannot be ignored yes and we would look at you know those estimates that would need to be made to ensure that this accessibility is provided okay certainly other considerations would include visual and auditory supports so for instance we're looking at those adaptations such as braille signage maybe changing the internal lighting in schools to ensure that visual learners who do have issues or need support when it comes to visual and auditory accommodation would be catered for when we look at multiple means of communication yes we're looking at whether or not there's learners are able to communicate through the best means that works for them so are they taught to use sign language do they have access to alternative script okay we also would have to consider those adaptive technologies so are there materials that would allow for example for text to speech translations are there materials that would allow our learners to engage in note taking that would allow for them to write okay when we look at accessible learning materials also we're looking at adjusting and you know providing those materials that would allow all of our learners to experience the success all of those materials that would allow them to meet the or to attend the goals of instruction all of those materials that would allow them to succeed certainly the issue of how playgrounds are organized we would need to look at whether the structure or the layout of a playground truly takes into account that there would be more than one learner who has to access who needs to have fun who based on his or her age group would need to participate in fun activities who just who doesn't need to only focus on the academics but you know the social side of development so all of these would have to be taken into consideration if we are truly looking at systems and structures that will provide reasonable accommodation for our learners our send learners within this truly inclusive environment okay are there any comments or questions on the provision of infrastructural support mechanisms just one question please Doc when we look specifically at students or artistic because every year that we see an increase in the number of autistic children that we register what specific provisions would be made for them the the range on the spectrum it varies we have some who can do very well and then we have some who would need an aid so right now we are operated in an absence of you know of information is there would there be something that would be multisensory for them I know that sometimes of sensory overload would those who require an aid would provisions be made for that because you can just imagine a classroom of 25 students and then we have this autistic child how you know it throws off the entire ambience and these children are brilliant gifted children but currently we are unable to reach them or you know like I stated again is the dignity of the process for that child so what is in place for our autistic children who are currently enrolled within certainly the policy would aim to provide all of the necessary materials if you know if you if we go back you would have noticed that we spoke of accessible learning materials so certainly the creation of those sensory environments that would allow the autistic students to flourish would need to be provided and certainly the policy is looking for making recommendations that we hope would be put into practice or taken very very seriously and that provision of access to materials would certainly go hand in hand with the provision of human resources who are actually trained to deal with and to kind of carry those learners who need access to such materials to kind of carry those students to offer them the necessary support so it's not just the material but the training of the human resources or the persons who deal directly with the instructors with those students in order to give them the necessary support. I think I want to jump in on that here as well Kathy that recall that autism is one of the 14 categories that we spoke of upfront in the beginning of the presentation but also that I wanted to ask this question of the person who asked the question whether or not you said increasingly you're seeing higher numbers of children coming into school labeled as autistic are these children coming with reports which would indicate that an assessment has been done and here is the report of that assessment so that school system can now create an IEP for this child so I'm just trying to figure out the process by which we are saying these children are autistic. Okay so in my instance I had a student who came in with a report from CDGC we weren't aware that we had to start the entire MDT process for that child however the parents are cooperating and they have started that process so he is currently in grade one and what we have done since attention span is so short we have differentiated his exam so his exam would be one for his grade that would be colored but it would be shorter to allow him as much as possible to sit through and to be tested however we are waiting for well I guess we're waiting for the process to be completed and to get the report from the special ed unit so we can move forward I have a student who is currently in grade five his process was finished maybe about two or three years ago and I am still waiting on the report so at least an IEP can be developed for him so it obtains that there is a backlog in terms of the release of the MDT reports that would give us the relevant information so that we can work with these children in a timely manner in interim I mean we are left to do our own research and to try to see how best we can work with the child or children to allow them to experience varying levels of success because you know that sometimes the child will have a meltdown etc so we are now learning how to deal with the meltdowns we are now learning how to you know assist the child thankfully parents are super supportive so we're getting the assistance from them but I know that in my district district six I'm not the only school that is affected I'm hoping that my colleague is still on and she can speak specifically to her school but this is what obtains at the school that I am at so we are still waiting we did not know there are certain things that we took for granted that if the child came in with the report from CDGC and that was sent to the special education unit that something would have started some process would have started the report could have been done and that child would be operating from an IEP we now know differently so we are doing differently hey thank you very much for that and so yes the policy would be written around ensuring that whatever category the child falls in there are the infrastructure provision and the support services are available for those needs thank you very much for your contribution it has raised some insights for us and we are grateful for your participation is there anyone else who has a comment on the last slide if not we can move on I think we are on top I think Clio is here yes thank you just a quick comment with respect to accessible classrooms and buildings I am happy to see that there we take it for granted sometimes that a new school is being built automatically we assume that facilities would be made for persons with physical students with physical challenges I remember when we had medical college in the south well right now under the Equip project we are getting some new classrooms and then with this there is going to be a ramp and other facilities for persons with physical disabilities but the existing building that was in 1997-98 we never really thought about it we had no ramps or anything believe it or not we didn't get too many students with physical disabilities until that one time we had this student who came in a brilliant young lady and her mom had to be at the school for the entirety she was a full-time student so when she had classes upstairs her mom had to accompany her upstairs she needed support she wasn't in a wheelchair but she had a physical disability so at some point when we have a small staff a very caring staff her mom had to leave everything behind and be with her at school every day so she could accompany her to the washroom the female washroom is downstairs we have one female washroom it was downstairs imagine the child has a class upstairs the student had a class upstairs and she needed to use the washroom eventually we split the responsibility some of her peers would assist her my staff and myself we would help her up and down the stairs to move from classroom to classroom so we take it for granted sometimes that when buildings have been constructed school buildings this is something that would have been factored in but that has not been the case I'm glad to see that I'm glad to see that it is factored into our policy thank you so much you're welcome I think there is another hand here Melka, Daniel Melka, is your hand still up or can we move on I think we can move on just in case she comes back perhaps Melka you can put the question in the chat then it would be responded to okay so we move on to another really critical consideration of the policy which would be human resource provisions and when we focus the focus on human resource provisions takes a look at the provision of appropriate measures that will improve the quantity and the quality of teachers the quantity and the quality of teacher educators the quantity and the quality of educational leaders and other specialists who support school communities in implementing inclusive education now again the focus is on the improvement of quantity and quality so certainly there will be a focus on ensuring that there is an appropriate multidisciplinary assessment team and one that would take into account the varying needs of sender learners so there are recommendations for the composition of that team so for instance and you will notice here that we are focusing on the capacity building of all of those individuals who would be responsible for the implementation of inclusive education so when we look at the composition of that multidisciplinary assessment team we are looking at whether or not that team has persons like a special educator a general education teacher a clinical a clinical or a school psychologist behavioural behavioural specialist of course parents a guardian representative school counsellors physical therapist occupational therapist and so on so we are looking at the provision of a range of specialists to deal with the various needs with which the learners or the needs of the learners along with that another consideration would be the provision of qualified teaching staff and making sure that those that would include individuals who themselves may have disabilities and including those persons both in inclusive special schools another recommendation or consideration would be looking at what the minimum qualification should be for a special education teacher and perhaps looking at it as being a bachelor's degree in education or in special education rather being that minimum qualification for a special education teacher when it comes to teachers who are already in the system and we would have noted through the consultations prior to developing the policy that many many teachers lamented the fact that they did not feel that they were adequately trained to deal with the demands and the needs of you know dealing with and providing instruction and the support to send learners so for sure if you're looking at increasing capacity and looking at increasing quantity and quality for sure there would need to be ongoing professional development so whether it is for in-service teachers or even pre-service teachers maybe courses that would be considered compulsory courses from the Division of Teacher Education or other retooling or re-schooling or re-skilling programs that would allow them to develop them or equip them with the necessary skills so that they can deliver what is expected of them and that they can function within such an environment additionally another consideration would be that the sender unit would be staffed with qualified education officers we would also look at teacher educators now if the requirement would be for teachers to go through or send teachers to be going through or to be exposed to ongoing professional development then certainly the individuals who are required to train them to function effectively within the send environment certainly would themselves have to be trained so there will be a focus on ensuring that teacher educators themselves are qualified to prepare in-service teachers to function within inclusive classrooms and of course if you the focus is on implementing inclusive education then certainly school leaders who are leading the charge in terms of managing and planning for instruction for their specific schools they would have to receive some training also on how they can integrate so for instance when they look at their strategic goals at the unit level meaning their specific institutions how do the or how will the goals of successful implementation of inclusive education how will that be factored into their own strategic planning so certainly school leaders and persons who manage inclusive schools and special schools would need to be exposed to training which will equip them with the necessary skills again we remember that the focus is the provision of quality personnel who basically would have to deliver and implement do you have any comments or questions I think I saw Kathy I'm going to ask you to go on to the very last one and then we'll wrap up with all the questions that are online and given the time frame not a problem so we're looking at certainly another key consideration is stakeholder involvement and the policy goal when it comes to stakeholder involvement is that the Department of Education will establish a framework that will identify stakeholders and the roles that they will play and that the policy will also outline the strategies that will be used to engage and to support the implementation stakeholders and allow them to support the implementation of special and inclusive education so in terms of the stakeholders who will be focused upon cannot exclude parents or guardians so for instance when you look at the role that parents or guardians things like what is their role in the various processes that their wards or children would have to go through for instance what is the role of the parents in terms of the referral process the assessment of the learner intervention and learning or the evaluation of the learner okay what is the role or responsibility of the parent when it comes to placement essentially any other decisions that would impact their child or ward what exactly is the role of the parent or guardian in that regard of course we can't leave out the various ministries so for instance the policy would be very clear in terms of the roles of the ministry of education ministries of health social welfare justice or any other ministry that deals with the welfare of young people or children certainly would need to have clearly defined roles and certainly this would speak to the sort of synergy that has to exist within those groupings so that special and inclusive education can be successfully implemented of course we would have to look at the role of international organizations or donor agencies the private sector how these programs will be how they will be approached how these international and private sector organizations will be made aware of what their roles and responsibilities are in terms of ensuring the success of the implementation of special and inclusive education how these entities will be required to collaborate with for example the ministry of education in order to ensure the success of to ensure that inclusive and special education is successfully implemented certainly we can't discard the role of the school and home communities because our learners have to function within those contexts so of course school and home communities will be considered to be a very integral or very integral stakeholders in the entire process another group that would be considered would be non-profit and non-governmental organizations and again looking at the fact that the implementation of special and inclusive education doesn't necessarily or cannot be successful with just one entity doing all the work there needs to be a lot of collaboration needs to be synergy among all of the relevant stakeholders to ensure that this is indeed successful okay so I believe that we can move on to the various questions and comments so thank you for your attention and participation okay we're going to try again for Melka are you still there not hearing from Melka alright there are some questions in the chat Joan are you there yes I am I think we start from Petra Petra has two questions so her first question is at 640 we can take one earlier you've seen one earlier than 640 yes 21, Jessica since I joined late and the session was recorded can it be emailed that is a question that Edith Emmanuel would have to answer well the session is being recorded we have not circulated it into the public domain really has been for the consultant to synthesize and assist them in preparing an enhanced iteration of the document if it is however something that may prove very useful to Petra is it Petra or Jessica sorry then I suppose we can accommodate because we really value everyone's contribution to this process we wouldn't want to hamper okay thank you alright from Petra I notice that it's a send policy with heavy emphasis on inclusion with special schools being one of the placement options my question was special educations whose benefit and benefits give it to regular schools personal structure and everything Petra that's the intention because special schools will have to step up its game for those children who must be placed in a special school so therefore whatever is necessary to enhance the education of youngsters placed there they are a part of this consideration in terms of budgetary allocation improvement of the facility and so on so most definitely yes Ian how soon will this policy be in effect is there a timeline for implementation given all the different facets of this policy as you would be well aware things something of this nature will take some time so implementation will have to be planned over a number of years so that the department of education the government of St Lucia will now have to examine to see okay how do we phase in what are the things that are immediate that we can finance and let's say we have requested a three year projection so year one year two year three but there may be other things that might go into a year four it depends on what the minister decides to do alongside the government of St Lucia because it also depends on funding and all of that but there are many things that can begin right away and we're helping to put together the implement some guidelines for implementation through key performance indicators and so on to assist the the implement with the implementation there are some low hanging fruits those can be done within the first year second year and so on so it is hoped that within three years that most of these most of the recommendations will be in effect some will take a little bit longer because we are talking about training of persons and degrees and so on you might have to offer some scholarships and that sort of thing so some things will take a longer time but in terms of the policy it should be going through the various stages before it gets legislated I'm going to ask my colleague from the ministry to assist with any further comments but let me just finish going through these and then you can take it from there thank you sincerely for the opportunity to contribute to this very important consultation Petra again when this policy becomes law can anyone in the process choose not to accept the placement the parent such as a parent of the assigned school that they are given if yes what would be the next step in the process well as you know parents even now have a right to appeal a decision so their appeal would be heard and I do believe that what is happening when it comes to the education act which is a much broader act than this one will speak to the fact that if a parent's appeal is not successful what next in the best interest of this child so that's a decision that the government solution will have to take because the interest of the child must always be maintained so sometimes what it takes is parental education and so on but they do have the rights even now and as this comes into effect they have the right to appeal a placement or appeal decisions made in terms of the diagnosis of the child and so on but that appeal must be heard and if unsuccessful then the next steps would be with regard to what the state can do to ensure that a child's best interest is maintained Jacqueline says I do recognize a value in allowing students with special needs to remain in mainstream school my questions are the policies speak to the assessment of these students yes most definitely besides accommodations what other adjustments would be considered well it has to do with the type of equipment and material they may need if it's a child will hear an impairment what else other than sign language what are the adaptive technologies out there that will assist this child and so on but it there are other equipment and material because at this stage of the game things are so advanced in terms of what happens to persons who may be physically challenged visually challenge hearing impairments and so on that there are assistive technologies available that the ministry have to invest in to ensure alongside the parents that the child is getting the best possible hearing aids have become the technology has improved so much that there is a wealth of equipment and materials that can be acquired to accommodate these children and also the curricula that is being used and the training of the teachers to be able to deliver and so on what support will schools receive in terms of human resource to support these learners we are advocating the special needs educators and the expansion of the multidisciplinary teams so that if possible down the road that each district has a team or members of the critical members of the team that can reach out to schools more rapidly than they're able to do now is there a clause to adjust the guidelines as it relates to reporting and the MDT process well there has to be with one small team serving the entire island it becomes problematic so we're advocating an expansion of a team with all the necessary persons there so that the assessment process can improve the delivery of reports can be improved and the expansion of individualized education programs will definitely improve once we have more persons who we can access to get the job done can the assigned school appeal a placement an assigned school can I'm not sure about the use of the word appeal but in the collaboration and discussion a schoolmate may say meet with the department to say okay you're putting this child in my school I have no rams I have no how will this child get around what can we do together to make this happen it's not just a total rejection but it has to be if there if you are putting this child in my school which I have no objections to what modifications to my physical plant must be made to ensure that this child is is is going to fit in if it is not to do with a physical restructuring and it has to do with other issues we must sit at the table and discuss how appropriate this placement is going to be and what do I need as a principal and staff to ensure that the child is going to benefit from this placement so I'm not sure it's an appeal to say no we can't have this child here it is more discussion about how we are going to facilitate the needs of this child so that a child's potential can be truly maximized those are the ones that I'm seeing right now I welcome any comments from my colleagues from the department of education and if there's any member of the same team here today I think Joan we are actually out of time I do believe so I think we're out of time I think we can probably invite the EO for special admissions to speak briefly if there is anything that he would like to share at this point and also then to the EO for district 5 Mr. Jariff who will close this meeting thank you good evening everybody thank you for the opportunity to be part of the consultation again I want to say thank you very much I want to say thank you to the consultants for engaging with us again for the work that you have done listening to the presentation each time it is it is done I'm getting a clearer and clearer understanding that you understand our situation in St. Lucia and we are looking eagerly forward to the implementation of this policy I really want everybody to understand how much of a big deal this is other than the small section of the education act that speaks to special education we do not have any guiding document for special education I have heard many comments made and I would I imagine that with a functioning policy many of the situations described would not have obtained because we would have regulations governing those various issues I also heard that there were a number of comments that were made I would encourage people to make contact with the special education unit if there are questions that you have about specific situations involving children the special education unit is available to be contacted and we can provide clarification concerning these situations one other thing is that as I listen I am realizing you can tell me whether or not the policy already speaks to that it seems to me that one of the biggest issues that must be addressed is mindset attitude and disposition I think that with physical resources, with training these things are wonderful and necessary but all of that can be derailed if people would not adopt a mindset towards inclusion a mindset towards supporting the needs of children with special educational needs and disabilities so with that I want to thank you again for the work that you have done so far I look forward to other consultations I encourage persons who are on this call after you look through the document there are other things that you discover other thoughts that are generated that you have not expressed there feel free to write it down send it in whether it is to the unit or to equip it available to the consultants thank you so much again welcome Mr Sergius to join tomorrow evening's constitution we continue from 6 to 7 30 with district 7 and 8 anyone on this call is welcome to join and really share your contributions there should anything else come tonight thank you so much Mr Sergius and the GBTE team we are joined by the teacher education team Mr Jarrett thank you Mr Manuel good night colleagues good night to everyone let me say thank you again to our consultants and those persons who participated in tonight's discussion I must say I am very happy too like Mr Sergius that we are seeing progress we are seeing consideration being given to our special needs students and most of the concerns that we had or some of the concerns that we have had based on the policy before us I can see at least attention to some for example the human resource provision the quantity and quality of teachers in the system the infrastructural provision we see the in-service training differentiated instruction the pre-service training as well we see a curriculum from grade K to grade 5 we also see consideration being given to the universal design for learning the assessment accommodation I think these are some of the concerns we have had for years as it pertains to attending to those students with special needs or disabilities if I should use this word also like Ms James said earlier in her contribution we are seeing an increase in persons coming to the schools the public schools or the general schools with needs and if our teachers are trained our teachers are able to get the necessary resources there's a policy to guide our practice then for sure every child everybody will get what is deserving and so I really want to thank the team for what's happening and of course we look at the soonest for a policy that is functional and can contribute to the development of all involved of course let me thank you parents, teachers community members all those of you have gathered here we know tonight or today is a special day across the world and for you to take the time out to be with us we appreciate it and so on behalf of districts 5 and 6 we say thank you and do have a blessed night thank you all thank you so much Mr. Jeref thank you so much teachers, parents community members I cannot see you know thanks or express you know thanks to you for that it's Valentine's Day and you made this time to be with us thank you so much we are eternally grateful enjoy the rest of your Valentine's night everyone good night good night Mr. Jeref good night