 Good morning from the west coast and welcome to no summary Golden Threads live stream series of conversations with artists that don't fit in a box. For those of you who may not know and I don't know how you couldn't Golden Thread is the first American theater company devoted to place from or about the Middle East, based in San Francisco and celebrating the 25th anniversary year of art activism and family. My name is Malik Najjar. I'm an associate professor of theater arts with the University of Oregon. I'm coming to you from the land of the Calapuya people of the Willamette Valley of Oregon. And I am just absolutely delighted to be here today with two women who I consider friends and colleagues, dear friends and colleagues, Taranjeh Zaryan and Sahara Asap. And I will just say how honored I am to be asked to to moderate this discussion. I could spend hours talking to both of them. And this is a great chance to share a wonderful dialogue between people who are shaping the Middle Eastern American theater every single day and this is just a really great, great gathering. Welcome to all of you on Facebook Live and on HowlRound. Thank you for joining us. Today we're going to have a great discussion and we will be taking questions. So if you'd like, please put your questions into the box and we will try to address them at the latter end of our talk today. It's a great opportunity and a good fortune to be invited to direct at Golden Thread Productions, seen from 71 years several years ago. And I got to tell you it's, it really is one of the highlights of my time as a Middle Eastern American theater director. So much thanks to Taranjeh Zaryan, who of course is the founder of Golden Thread, the founding artistic director of Golden Thread Productions in San Francisco. She has launched visionary programs like the Reorient Festival, New Threads, fairytale players, what do the women say? She's a playwright, a director, a translator published in the drama review American Theater Magazine, and she's an Amorasia journal contributing to the encyclopedia of women and Islamic cultures and the Cambridge world encyclopedia of stage actors. And she is also an actress who's appearing in Denmo Ibrahim's Brilliant Mind. So I'll urge all of you to please check out that wonderful production which is streaming now. So get your tickets as soon as you can. One of the co-founders of Minatma, the Middle East North African Theater Makers Alliance of the Steering Committee, and has been a guiding force, of course, for all of us on that committee as we continue to do our work to further Middle Eastern North African American theater artists in this country. This is Sahar Assep, who is somebody who I've had the great pleasure of working with both here and in Beirut. Sahar is a Fulbright recipient who studied at Central Washington University, holds a Bachelor of Arts in journalism with a specialty in television and radio, and a Bachelor of Arts in sociology from the American University of Beirut. And she was the assistant professor of theater at the American University of Beirut and the artistic director of Tahwila Ensemble Theater and co-founding and working artistic director of the director's lab Mediterranean. And of course is known for many of the plays that she has directed in Lebanon, including No Demand, No Supply, Blood Wedding, King Lear, Watch Your Step, and she's also a venerated Lebanese actress. And so here we are talking to somebody who has founded a company and has guided it lovingly for 25 years and is now passing the torch on to Sahar Assep, who is the new artistic director of Golden Thread Productions. Thank you to both of you and welcome. Thank you so much. I feel so elated with that introduction and humbled by all your praises. Thank you, Malik. Thank you both of you. Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here and I'm humbled to be taking the torch from following in the footsteps of Taranja. I said this and I'm going to keep saying this. Well, I have to say that when the job posting came up, I was so hoping that a strong immigrant theater maker from the Middle East would be replaced by a strong immigrant theater maker from the Middle East. So when I heard your appointment, Sahar, I was, of course, deeply excited. And, you know, one thing I have to say to both of you is I just feel that both of your work, because I've had the great pleasure of having many conversations with you, seeing your works and studying your works and teaching your works, of course. And I've got to say that you've both brought so much art to the world stage. And not just that, but you've also created a platform for so many important Middle Eastern theater artists to do their work. And so let me start with you, Taranja. How has it, how has it felt to you to have had this idea to create this company and look back now 25 years later at what you've accomplished? Can you tell us about what it means to you now in retrospect as you look back? I mean, I would say first and foremost, it fills me with pride. It makes me feel that it was all worth it because of so much that we've accomplished and how strong our community has become. And in a way how entitled we have become. You know, when I first began, I had to convince people that we had a right to space on American stage. And we had a right to tell these stories. And now that's gone. Now it's everybody's, you know, working on telling their own story and really claiming their own space, which gives me deep pleasure. Absolutely. You know, you're right there. It's so astonishing to me even to this day sometimes I run into people who say there is a Middle Eastern American theater and you say to yourself of course there is there. There is not only that it's a flourishing, wonderful genre, all its own. And I really want to credit you for being one of the people who's really given it the attention, love and care it deserves because if it had it not been for your leadership and your guidance, I really don't think that we'd have the kind of Middle Eastern American theater we have today. What are you, it's Ron, can you take us back and talk to us about some of those highlights from your career at Golden Thread Productions. We have some images, and if you can walk us through that we'd love to get a chance to see you explain some of the things that make you proud of your work. Sure. Yeah, and so this is our inaugural production operation, no penetration, which is a contemporary adaptation of Lysistrada, where Palestinian and Israeli women come together and force, go on a sex strike to force men to sign a peace treaty. And it was my graduate thesis at San Francisco State and it became Golden Threads first production, and we sort of continued critiquing the war industry through comedy with a production of Love Missile, which is where this image is coming from. And this was in 2003, a scientist that an immigrant scientist that creates a drug that is then used as a missile to sort of destroy her own country. And it was a comedy musical with puppets. And the other production is my own writing, 444 days, and it examines the sort of US Iran. And still or political political standstill between the two countries through the lens of this very personal story of an Iranian woman and American ex hostage. So this one is the fifth string, which I also wrote and directed developed with an ensemble, and it's the story of Zariab the ninth century musician and fashion designer and cultural trailblazer. It was fun to bring some historic characters and introduce them to our community. And this is an image from Esfahan Blues, which featured my mom, who's been involved in Golden Thread from the very beginning, and this was her last production with us. And it was very much inspired by her life. And the nightclub that she and my dad ran in Tehran and also inspired by Duke Ellington orchestras visit to tour to Iran in 1963. And it was a co-production with African American Shakespeare Company and I'm really proud to say that our audiences were 5050 split between Iranians and African Americans jazz lovers and and people who really celebrated this little known shared piece of history between our two countries. And also the play touched on how much the civil rights movement inspired folks outside of the US. Then I'm also of course proud of the programs that I initiated at Golden Thread fairy tale players, our youth outreach program that tour schools and libraries with original plays based on fables and children stories from the Middle East. This is 21 days that changed the year a celebration of no rules. And then this one is Leila's quest for flight. We always include audience engagement elements in into the plays and it's always fun to get the kids to come on stage and handle some props and say a few lines and be a part of the storytelling. Of course, what do the women say which we initiated in 1999 and is the one is an evening of celebrating International Women's Day, and it's an occasion to showcase women of various artistic disciplines so we have authors, dancers, musicians, as well as theater artists that we feature in the program and usually end with a conversation. Reorient Festival is, I think a core program at Golden Thread. It's a festival of short plays. It brings diverse perspectives and aesthetics to one evening of theater and it's our probably best known program that draws the most diverse audiences as well. It's a chance to, to show experimental work to show comedy to show political work, all in the same evening. And these are just some images from various reorient festivals and, sorry. Some of the, for example, this is an adaptation of a poem that I directed that involved projection and movement on stage. Reorient is interesting because, you know, we bring together a group of directors, we choose the plays and cast an ensemble of actors, and it's the same designers that designed the full evening. It's really, it almost feels like a full length play that's made up of short plays and we curate the festival so that the short plays are in dialogue with each other so that they bring maybe different perspectives on the same topic, or different aesthetic approaches, for example, a comedy piece and a dramatic piece on the same topic, as well as regions, as you know, you know, the Middle East, especially the way we define it very broadly and inclusively. It includes many, many countries. And for example, this play is set in Morocco with North Africa and Reorient gives us an opportunity to represent the work that's coming from or is about different countries in the Middle East. There's also a piece that I directed and it's, again, it was written like a poem, it's by Amir Azraki, an Iraqi playwright who's now based in Canada, and it's a conversation that an Iraqi man is having with his passport. And this is a piece by Hannah Khalil, which was a lot of fun, despite the burn in the burn spots on the actor's body there. It was a comedy in fact. This is an example of scenic design for Reorient, which is, you know, very minimal but also functional, so some of those doors open to create rooms, beds, refrigerator, and, you know, the scenic design is designed to serve the whole evening. And this is from our last 2019 Reorient. It was great to be able to have our first science fiction piece in a way. So this was a futuristic play by Nikushari, who was being produced for the first time at Golden Thread. And I want to say that at the end of the day, I think Golden Thread for all of us is about community, community building is about bringing people together. People who may not think they have a lot in common, but when they're in the same room, when they're watching the same series of plays they discover they have a lot in common and they have a lot to say to each other and I think maybe at the end of the day that this is what I'm most proud of with Golden Thread is bringing diverse artists together and communities together and helping them engage in conversation with each other. They're our board. That's fantastic. Thank you for sharing some of those memories, you know, and that's, that is just the briefest overview of the work that has been done at Golden Thread production. So I'll urge you to go to the website to look up production archives and to learn more about this incredible company. Sahar, you have quite a storied history yourself in working in Lebanese theater. I mean, you are really one of the luminaries of Lebanese theater and so you've worked as an artistic director, you've worked as an actress, you've worked as a director, you've worked as a producer. And it's just such a rich background and that's one thing I love about both of your stories is that you have this amazing back catalog, if you will, of great artistic works. Can you take us through your journey of art up to this point, even though it's going to be brief as well, but we'd love to hear it. Thank you so much Malik. I'm very humbled by your words. Yeah, I perhaps I can start by sharing one of the most recent works that I've done. This is an image from a documentary play that I put together called No Demand, No Supply. And the image here is at the performance at Zoukak studio in Beirut. This is just before the break of the October 17 revolution. We were planning to keep, you know, going with the performance and do a national tour but that we had to stop it before, you know, in support of the revolution basically because we wanted the audience to actually be on the streets, not in the auditorium. But this is the pieces about sex trafficking in Lebanon and there was a huge scandal in 2016. A story came out about the biggest probably sex trafficking ring in the history of Lebanon that was abusing 75 Syrian women and the story like really spoke shook me, you know, and I decided to do this documentary play about it. So the play involved documentary techniques such as the recorded delivery. I used an indictment report. I used interviews with survivors from the ring, from the trafficking ring. I used sociological study. I collaborated with Kafa organization in Lebanon, which is focused on women issues and fighting violence against women to put on this play. I also, this is an image from blood wedding. I, this is a play that's very dear to my heart. The process has been amazing. So blood wedding, Lorca, Garcia Lorca, the famous classical play that Lorca wrote based on a true story at, you know, early, like nine around 1930s Spain ruler Spain and we did this, and we decided to take it to rural Lebanon and we mounted the play in an actual village in Mount Lebanon in Hamena village. So you see your images of actors and audiences on the streets of Hamena. So the scenes were enacted in houses of villagers. This is a scene from an actual house. And this is this was obviously pre covered when we could stand so close to it just seems from a different age now. So the scenes were actually audiences were touring the houses of villagers through the through guides that I transformed the beggar character in the in the play to guide to a guide to a woman guide. And she both women were both guides were taking audiences into different routes to experience the play in different order. So we use like this is a wedding hall and actual wedding hall in the village. We used an actual church. We used an old cinema house that was, you know, kind of deserted. This is one of the guides on on the street, there were like fantastical characters the guides, you know, the guides like the beggar in the stories. And she was like both of them were being fantastical characters like, and what I love about this is that it mishmashed, you know, the lines between the theatricalities and the real so this is, and I don't know if you can tell who's the actor in this image probably you can but I love this image the woman in the center is the mother of of the groom and there's the woman behind her with her hand up is playing the the maid to the bride. So, you know, and, yeah, we see more images from this this is in the church the last scene in the play so we brought the audiences to, you know, witness the play and experience it and this is the last scene and then here from here on they were left on their own to find their way back to the starting point which is how many artists house a beautiful before like artist center that was recently established in Lebanon in Hamina. And we collaborated with them to bring this piece to to live the costumes where you know built based on the actual, you know, context of the play but also Mount Lebanon and we decided to set this piece at the beginning of the Lebanese Civil War in Lebanon so there was a touch of 70s, but also Spanish, you know, that we wanted to honor Garcia and the work. This was from inside the cinema house that we used for the performance and more images from the cinema so it was again it was real and and staged. This is from a piece I put a UB I use the campus of a UB so we like proper theater infrastructure a UB and that gave me liberty and freedom to experiment actually. And this was a play that reenacted speeches by early feminist women in Lebanon. One of them is on the Islam and may see a day and without Cortas three, you know, educators writers, you know, feminist this is, we reenacted the moment when I'm by Islam for instance walked into the assembly hall and took lifted up her face veil this was the first woman to do like such an act in public. And I brought Khalida, you know, the granddaughter of Ali Khalidi, sorry, the granddaughter of Amber Islam to play the role and to reenact the speech so this is a scene from the assembly hall and then again we had I stage these scenes in the actual locations where they actually happened, you know, back, you know, early last century. This is what that was at the stairs of the West Hall, a famous, you know, building a UB delivering the speech that without Cortas delivered then, and the actress. I'm blanking out for Raida, oh my God, Raida Taha, beautiful playwright and actor, Palestinian and this is the famous Julia Asar from Lebanon delivering the speech of Maisyadi and this is a famous speech that Maisyadi gave right after she was released from the mental asylum that she was forced into and in that speech she was, you know, speaking about art and literature and she was proving to everyone that she has her faculties. Brilliant moment it was so lovely this this performance. It really spoke to audiences. This is the veteran, the pioneer Raja Asaf playing King Lear, we're not related, I wish we are, I'm always asked whether we are related, but in this play, I played Cordelia, so I was his daughter and I was his director and this is a play that we collaborated with the Faction Ensemble from London, an award-winning company whose work on Shakespeare has been really acknowledged and we brought them to Lebanon and we collaborated so I co-directed the piece with Rachel Valentine Smith, Raja Asaf in title role, Rif Attar by another great Lebanese actor in the role of Gloucester and the beauty about this work is that it brought, you know, intergenerational actors and designers and artists together and this was staged at El Medina Theatre in Beirut, a beautiful proscenium that is led by Nidal Ashar, another pioneer that we have, yeah. This is another site-specific work that I did in, back in 2014 actually, this is Watch Your Step and this is a play about, I love to think of this as about our memories of the Civil War. So we took audiences to an area in Beirut that's five minutes walking distance from the renovated downtown of Beirut and it's called Khanda Al Ghami and it's still up until 2014, even today. It still had, you know, the outcome of the Civil War on the facade. This is a church that is totally abandoned and destroyed and like 20 plus years after the war is still not rehabilitated and still kept. It's still deserted really. It's an abandoned area. Like part of the area is completely abandoned. The people left during the Civil War and never came back. So you see here like actors and another, the actor guiding them also on the street. So it was a mixture between, you know, fictional writing, Robert Myers, my collaborator at the Theatre Initiative, a fictional architect, like four architectural tour. And then the scenes that were happening inside certain locations were actually scenes that were built on true narratives that we heard from people about their experience of the Civil War, such as a wedding transforming into a funeral because the bride, you know, died in battle. I mean, in fighting, not battle in fighting, or, you know, a woman who is still like 20 years after the war she still waits for her son who disappeared and we have a big number of disappeared from like 17,000 people disappeared during during the Civil War and we still don't know anything about them. So the scenes actually were based on true stories. This scene is between, you know, the two actresses and the passerby is just, you know, random passerby, not part of the even audiences, but the two women you see one on the balcony, one on the street, and the acting is seen about, you know, during the war there were so many stories about people not finding bread, for instance, like a simple story about, you know, a sister sending her, you know, a sister to find food and groceries and not being able to find anything. But we wanted, the experience we wanted to, or what we wanted to highlight in this piece was the, you know, the denial that we have collective amnesia that we have about the Civil War. So the guides were actually, the narrative they were saying was totally off and was totally false, like they were looking at buildings and describing them as if they were like intact. And the audience is obviously not at first like not understanding what's going on because their eyes are telling them something but the narrative is telling them something else. And this is something that we struggle with in Lebanon, you know, there's there's no no no reconciliation happened but also us the people I mean there's a lot of work that we still have to do to acknowledge what happened. So this is just a sample of the work I'm interested in the work that I've engaged with I'm very much interested in. And I usually take stories as my starting point is a story I want to tell and then I figure out the best way to tell it with the best three sources I have. So as I said sometimes the absence of an actual theater space gave me freedom to explore and to take things outside and to actually go to the audiences instead of waiting them at the prescenium. But I'll stop here and I'll leave part for you to ask. It's just it's amazing. It's just wonderful seeing all of your works like that and again, these are just a small sliver of such a great body of artistic work from from both of these artists. I just want to say that if you're just joining us. This is no summary Golden Threads live stream series of conversations with artists artists that don't fit in a box. We're in conversation with Sahara Seth and Taranje Khazarian about Golden Thread productions, the past, the present and the future. And if you have questions you may post your questions to Golden Threads Facebook live for our artists to respond to so we will be doing that in shortly we'll be answering any questions you might have. Can we talk for a moment about this past year. It has been astonishingly difficult between the COVID-19 crisis. The ports explosion in Beirut the political upheaval that we've all experienced both in Lebanon and here in the United States over the past four years. Can we talk about, you know, what is that meant to you artistically, what is it meant to Golden Thread, and how does that shape what happens with a company like Golden Thread that's focused on Middle Eastern slash Middle Eastern American issues. Taranje, would you start us off. I mean, initially, I think we were all in survival mode right. Because the, you know, theater companies in the US live on the edge it's not like we have a lot of reserves to fall on when disaster hits right we can barely get by when things are good so clearly when a production closes. You know, projected revenue doesn't come in you have to very quickly figure out how you're going to make up that shortfall. And I think for us, because we were, we had just opened a show. And which we had to cancel, you know, it was a big question for us how to support our artists through that cancellation knowing that, you know, so many of them are, you know, what is described as gig workers, essentially getting paid only when they're working so we tried to, you know, support our artists through that cancellation, and then figure out how to sustain ourselves through the pandemic initially wasn't clear how long it would be and if we needed to make program program changes. So it was just about getting relief funding and, you know, that kind of support, but eventually became clear that it would last longer than perhaps initially expected. And so we began developing some online programming. We created audio plays. This no summary online conversation with artists we launched. And then really, I think, engaged in conversations around social justice, and what that means for us as a company and what it means for us as a community. You know, obviously we don't think of ourselves as a white organization, we are a theater of color. And we mostly collaborate with other theaters of color, and our work speaks to and is rooted in community and social justice. But it felt like we needed to do more. So we reached out, for example, to our Native American community, and actually asked for their help to develop a statement on a land acknowledgement but a little more elaborate than a land like an acknowledgement that actually, you know, acknowledges all the tribes that are in the Bay Area, and that they're thriving I think one of the things I heard from our advisor from the friendship house intertribal friendship house was that, you know, we often talk about Native Americans in the past. But these are living communities. And we acknowledge that. And we also decided that we will commit to paying a land tax every year. So, these are some of the conversations we've had. But mainly more recently, obviously engaged with the leadership transition and mapping out, you know, the next few years to support Sahar in her, in her, you know, in her position as artistic director. So how about you. Can you talk to us a little bit about the hardships of course that you endured with the port explosion and the political upheaval. And now this wonderful new chapter, starting at Golden Thread. And it was a tough year, I think, for everyone. I would say especially for Lebanon because of the, you know, the different crises that hit together so first we had it wasn't I mean the first thing I'm going to mention is not obviously a crisis that the revolution is something we're very proud of and something that has been long awaited, you know, and, but it did put a like a halt to our theatrical activity by decision I'd rather say so I, I was actually planning a tour for no demand and I was in the rehearsal room for play that I was directing a Lebanese version of Faithful and Her Friends by Maria Eirin Fornes. So, and then we had to stop all of this to, to participate to be able to participate in the revolution and give all our time and energy for that. And then COVID hit. So by that everything has had to stop. And Lebanon was also experiencing, you know, an economic collapse still is. And then the port explosion, you know, Malik, it was probably for me as an artist I would say that it was the first time I felt paralyzed like I couldn't for a long time after the the explosion, you know, think or do any kind of creative work I was completely paralyzed from from the inside. So what I did instead is I reached out to other Lebanese theater artists and we started what we call theater relief group in Lebanon where because many, many beautiful, wonderful theater friends from the world were reaching out for us asking, you know, how could they help us and so we wanted to just think, you know, together about what exactly do we need because even at that moment it was hard for me to answer the question about how can we help you like I, you know, we basically we were feeling some kind of, you know, like, how come we're not dead, you know, so when you're feeling that it's really hard to think about, you know, money or like productions or creativity you just want to be alive you just want to you're wondering how you survived that huge catastrophic explosion so we created the relief group and through it like it was such a beautiful space that connected artists in the country with one another. It was some sort of a support group like it was it was great for us to like breathe and and talk about the explosion and other issues that we have. And through it we were able to bring in support for artists who were wounded artists who lost their homes or had family members who were injured that you know, due to the explosion. So that was something that we did up until like end of December of last year. And this was also happening for me so that was the period you know it was in August that I read the announcement for the position at golden thread and I decided to apply. So I was doing that, you know, as I was working on the relief group and you know, trying to just make sense of the world that we found ourselves in. And, and Torange, can you talk to us a little bit about this liminal moment this this place where you've decided after this long time of, you know, carrying this company for 25 years. What was it in you that said it's time to to hand off the reins. What was that for you. Well, I had been thinking about transitioning for several years. And I think initially, in our conversations with the board we had thought that maybe 2019 would be my last year but then with everything that happened and the changes, it kind of got pushed a little bit later. I guess, you know, I never, it's, it wasn't my ambition to run a company. Right, I ran a company I created a company, because we had no community. Right. And, and in order for my own place to be produced and received. I needed to build that audience, I needed to build that artistic community. You know, I saw it. Right. So, I think, you know, by the by 2015 2016. I felt like we had a community there was a thriving artistic community there we had a broad audience space. The company was thriving. Like it was time for me to hand over the running of a company to, you know, sort of the next generation in a way, and for me to take some time to focus on my own creative work. So, I think the decision to make the transition now is partly a reflection on the success of the, the company and our community's commitment to making sure Golden thread will stay right and will will thrive. And also my, you know, my own need to figure out, you know, if I, you know, I feel like I have a lot more stories to tell so I need some time to, to, you know, write them down. And so what about you. I mean, you really committed so much of your life to Lebanese theater. And now, you know, what was it in you that said you know it's time now to take this opportunity you said you saw the job posting. What was it in you that said now's the moment to to act on this. I think, you know, I loved my work a lot. It gave me, I should start by saying that and it gave me the space to be creative and to create and to produce work. And I was also teaching as an assistant professor as you know. So I, at that point when I saw the announcement I was like, oh great this is something I'd like to do because it will be working full time. It was always my dream to work full time as a practitioner as a theater maker and teaching was something that I grew to love, especially because of the students and because I'm teaching something that I have great passion for. But it wasn't my dream to be a teacher I have to say that. So I thought this will be an excellent opportunity for me as to grow as an artist, obviously, and to be able to experience life as 100% full time, you know, theater maker as a producer as an artistic director giving, you know, helping other people to also grow their artistic career and creation. And I have to be also super honest, I needed a break from Lebanon post explosion. And I'm so sad. And, you know, I can't even believe I'm saying that because I never felt that in my life. I mean, you know that I'm I built my career and my life and my world in Lebanon. And this is where I was very happy. The explosion broke something in me. And I felt like I just needed a little bit of space. Yeah, you know, I mean, it strikes me that this last year again has broken something in all of us. You know, it really has changed fundamentally and seeing what happened with the murder of George Floyd and so many of these horrific feelings that are happening in this country, the rate, the structural racism that's really come in full view. It was always there. Let's be clear, but it's really come in full view. And now, you know, it feels like if we are at this threshold, and now that if the pandemic is hopefully waning at least on the the Wayne. What now you know what what what becomes the new moment. And let me start with you, Torange, what is the next thing for let's talk broadly about Middle Eastern American theater you know what what is it that that that has been done but now it can go to the next place if there is a break, or indeed within us and maybe a change that can come. One of the things one of the outcomes of the pandemic that I think is valuable to hold on to is this access to digital work right and the digital space so theater practitioners began exploring more seriously how theater could be created online, and how they could create this new art, you know, communities and artists outside of the US through through digital work and I think that is particularly valuable for us in the Middle Eastern American community because I've always thought of us as the, as the natural difference between the US and the Middle East, right, and now working through, you know the digital medium gives us an opportunity to collaborate with artists in the Middle East, in a way that maybe we weren't thinking about before. And I think that's a great opportunity and I hope that we will take advantage of that. What about you, what does the future look like for you, especially about Middle Eastern American theater how does that shape for you in your mind. Yeah, I absolutely second what Taranj is saying there's something very valuable about being able to reach like audiences outside of our immediate circles and that that in itself will affect the kind of work we produce, I believe, because, you know, these are audiences that might not speak the same verbal language or even like not share the same concerns that we do so it will really force us to think outside of our comfort and outside of our own, you know, circle, basically. So this is something that I'd love to explore there's, you know, I, I also, you know, keep saying that Taranj and the team and the boy that Golden thread and all the artists that have been involved have really created very strong grounds for us to build on. So, and I really want to take advantage of what, you know, the, the, the new things that we discovered due to the pandemic, you know, to kind of explore how we can expand the programs the current programs such as the fairytale players this is a program that really stood out for me when I was doing research about the company when I decided to apply. I mean the fact that it's, it really reaches out to schools because I've always believed that if we want to change the culture you have to start at the schools if want to introduce Middle Eastern theater if we want to if we want to change the perceptions about the Middle East this is the right place to start you start with the kids, you know, before they're totally engaged in the community so, so we're looking at how we can expand fairytale players through adding a digital aspect to the program for instance, you know, reorient as well can have a digital aspect and I'm thinking about moving here going back to the previous question that you asked I think of my role now as you know, definitely I see it as a connection to the Middle East because I'm, I'm rooted there this is where I grew up this is where I come from. At the same time I'm now I realize and I'm aware that now I'm working in a different environment I'm here with within a different community there's so much in common but it's, it's a different community so my job I believe will be to try and reconcile the two and to see how I can, you know, keep producing for this community because it defeats the purpose of theater to produce something that's not of concern to your immediate environment, at least in my view and the more specific you are, the more it really would speak to people outside of your circle and I've experienced that with doing specific work about things that I thought would only matter to Lebanese people such as the story about no demand or supply, when we took it to Athens when we took it to New York, and I was saying Lebanese names and the story is Lebanese and, but everyone was completely, you know, engaged with the performance and it spoke to them, they, they were able to relate it to their own problems and situations. And I think by doing that here and trying to link trying to link that to the Middle East, you know, it will, you know, it, I think it will give us something very interesting to keep growing. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm just checking with Wendy see if there are any questions that have come up but I will check back there. So, Toran, now that, now that you and Sahar are kind of working on this transition. But can you tell us about what you see is the future of this genre that that you've that you've nurtured for so long I mean where do you see a company like Golden Thread for instance, in 25 more years. What has what will in your mind be positive change for the future in the sense of not just the company, but the genre of Middle Eastern American theater where can we be in 25 more years. Well I think there's a lot of work to be done. And I have a list it's by no means exhaustive, but you know, for example, if Golden Thread could have a season of let's say five to seven productions a year, and employ a company of 50 artists and production staff, right, year round. That to me would be success. And I would want that season to include translated work. I would want it to include adaptations of classical Middle Eastern texts. I would want it to, I would want it to have aesthetic diversity in terms of where the origin of the play is, and, and how it was devised. And it was to do, you know, comedy musicals. God knows we have. We do. We have a, you know, a tradition of comedy musicals in the Middle East. So you know I think just in terms of creating work and building a season. There's a lot that can be done if we wanted to move in that direction. Obviously up to Golden Thread but there's also, I think a need to bring the work of a company like Golden Thread to Middle America. And while in the past we've tried touring. We've never been able to do it successfully in the same financially successful it's never we've always lost a lot of money and we're not able to bring in a lot of audiences. Because like our local support was weak, right. But if there is a way to tour some of our productions. I think that would be really valuable. And Sahar, what about you. What do what are you envisioning as a bright future saying 25 years for Golden Thread. I have so many dreams for Golden Thread, obviously. One thing that I'd like to see happen more is, as the ranch said, bring our work outside of the Bay Area and to the international theater scene. This is something that I'm keen on, you know, doing. Because I think it's very important the work that we're producing here at Golden Thread and I think it would speak to audiences everywhere it's like, you know, relevant the subject matters. I think also Golden Thread has the potential to be like a big sister company to other companies in in in the US Middle Eastern companies because I think we need many more Middle Eastern focused theater companies to be able to address the issues at heart. And I, and I know that this happened before like we inspired other companies I was in conversation yesterday with two of our resident artists who are residing in London, Hasan Abdul Razza and Hannah Khalil and they were telling me how their work with Golden Thread inspired them to start their company of they called Menara, which is focused on Middle Eastern issues in the UK. So I think that there's a, you know, potential for us to be like the we have a model that's working, and that worked for 25 years, and that's thriving today. And I think that's something that we can continue to do and I really hope to, you know, to continue engaging artists and making them the center of our work by providing you know them with a safe place and space to be able to create work without fear and anxiety or judgment and that also entails, you know, compensating them better and you know being able to support them, not only artistically but financially this is something that we're really in conversation with during this transitional period that you know the leadership transition. So there's and obviously I have so many plays from the Arab world and the Middle East that I'd love to one day to produce here because I think they will speak to Middle Easterners in the US I think you know to continue fighting for our voices to be heard here. We must be able also to keep that connection with what's happening on the Middle Eastern stages and also Middle Eastern communities because people I noticed this with some of my cousins like they immigrate, you know, and then 20 years later they they come back and they think they speak about things as if they're still the same and things obviously like like all relationships things are like it's a relationship and relationships are very dynamic and changing constantly changing. So I think to keep that connection with the region and what's happening there and keep the voice of the region present here and vice versa, by the way, is something that I would like to do. Wonderful. Well, as you both know I could spend hours talking to both of you but of course we've come to the end of our time. So, my deepest thanks to both of you, Taran, Zarian, Sahara, I have such deep love and respect for both of you thank you for all that you've done and that you are going to continue to do for the theater for the Middle Eastern American theater in this country. I'd like to thank how around for hosting this live stream event. Recording of the session will be available on both how around and Golden Threads websites, and many thanks to our live stream technician Wendy Reyes and Chris steel for managing the live stream on Golden Threads Facebook page. And thanks of course to all of you for joining us today, I will implore you all to please keep supporting companies like Golden Thread Productions, come see the work. When everything gets this back live again it'll be just exciting to be in a theater sharing art once again. Thanks. My name is medic Nizhar, and I hope you have a wonderful weekend. Goodbye.