 Well, despite significant progress, women continue to face numerous challenges in various spheres of life, particularly in the domain of politics and governance. Now beyond ministerial appointment, recent administration also appointed women to leadership positions in different governmental agencies and paracetals. The appointment by the current administration in the past few days signals a departure from the posture of government under the immediate past administration. While these efforts have been demonstrated, a commitment to women's involvement in government challenges and limitation must be pursued. Well, joining us live to discuss this is Femi Lawson, national secretary campaign for democracy, the CD. Thank you so much, Femi Lawson for joining us. Good evening. Thank you for having me. Yes, please. Well, Femi, what do you think about, you know, the body language of this administration as regards the involvement of women in governance when you juxtapose that we're, you know, the pattern that we have experienced over the years? Well, I think it is important to work on the fact that there seems to be signs that there will be deviation from, you know, what we experienced in the last eight years as far as the participation and involvement of women in governance is concerned. If you look at the position of women in leadership in Nigeria, between the year 2011 and 2015, you realize that there was a major setback between 2015 and 2023 of the last, the eighties of the last administration. We had no, we have fewer numbers of women in the national assembly, the state assemblies. We had fewer numbers of women in the various ministry department and agencies of government, especially those in the appointment position. And it tells you that that administration did not give so much regard or priority to the involvement of women in governance in Nigeria. But if you look at the appointment made so far by the incumbent administration of President Mola Chinobu, you come to realize that there are indications that Nigeria may be heading back to that time where women, you know, are beginning to be involved in governance, not just as being, you know, appointed to position of government without, you know, credible, you know, representation. But we are beginning to see the readiness of the administration to give women key positions of government, you know, just like we have seen in the number of special advisers already appointed by the President, you know, three major positions seated already to the women. And there are a lot of opportunities that have been opened for women participation. We are believing that the Mola Chinobu administration will deepen this commitment further by ensuring that more women are employed and are engaged in key position of governance in Nigeria. And in doing that, the government must look at, you know, women participation as a key, you know, way towards ensuring that these countries transform the economic leadership politically and other because it is not enough to just bring women to come and place a little bit of rules, you know, in government. Well, you talked about, you know, there might just be signals and signs for this administration, but having, you know, it's not the actual deal. But quickly, let's look at the national agenda policy that was formulated and then the issue of 35 percent affirmation action in Nigeria, which was in 2006. So with the sign and signal that you're looking at, do you think that for the very first time that Nigeria as a country, and this administration would actually feel the gap of 35 percent affirmative action for women? Femi, Lossin, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Did you get my question? Okay, now is the country ready to fulfill the 35 percent of our... Not necessarily the country. I'm saying, of course, the nation, we have a new dispensation which is led by Bola Tinibu. And I'm saying that prior to this time, in 2006, there's been an affirmative action followed by the national agenda policy that is asking for 35 percent in terms of a pointive, you know, position to women. And you mentioned that there might just be signal and signs from this administration. And then I'm saying the 35 percent affirmative action or quota, do you think that this administration will meet that quota with all of the, hey, we're going to involve women in governance and what of you? Well, the capacity of the administration to meet that five percent quota would depend on, you know, how much our women are beginning to show interest and organizations like us and the media like yours are pushing for the actualization of the 35 percent affirmative action. We have come to realize that in politics, there is really usually no free will gift. Positions are not usually freely given. Power is not usually freely given, except where there are specific demands by stakeholders, by interested parties, even by the demography that we're talking about. How much are the women doing in ensuring that we get at least 35 percent of women in governance in Nigeria? And how do we get this? It is about looking at those women who have shown commitment and interest in governance in politics. And of course, we also have the expertise and the experience to be involved in government. Like I said, it's not going to be given just because we want women in politics. That, for instance, the 2023 presidential election, a lot of women went to sit back, hoping to be the usual, you know, campaigners and voters for the main politicians, except for the case of one person, the prime candidate of the Allied People's Movement, very young, you know, lady, princess Chichi Hoji, who despite all odds, you know, insisted on going ahead in the race. And of course, she began, she became the only woman who participated in the presidential race out of the 18 presidential, you know, candidates of the various political parties. Why do we have only one woman contesting that exotic seat when women wait and sit back and expect that power be given to them? No, we must begin to identify women who have shown commitment, who have shown the capacity to perfect the government. So, I mean, if we want to go through that, you are probably talking about, you know, elected position at this point in time, or we're talking about the appointed because that's what it is. And if you remember vividly, when this government came on board, President himself, he, during his campaign, he said, his administration would give women the best representation in government. That's what he said. And so we're hoping that for the first time in the history of the country since 2006, we probably would just be saying, hey, 35% affirmation gap has been closed because this administration has done that. Do they have the capacity? Would it just be a political statement? Yes, there might be science and signal, but what exactly will we have 35% giving to women in this government because they have promised. And if you want to talk about women not being capable, whether they are ready, they have to just so qualified and all of that. There are too many qualified women who are out there knowledgeable, you know, they have the expertise, you want to go everywhere they are there. So the problem then again is, will this government fulfill or close the gap of 35% out of the 100% and give 35 to the women? In achieving that, we must as advocates, we must as a civil society, we must as the men, women, you know, begin to make these specific demands. The truth is that, like I said, no president, no governor would just wake up with doubts, you know, especially when you look at the dominance of the men in Indian politics and administration, the men want to have all the elective position or the appointment position if possible. So we must begin to insist that the women are considered and at least the government must be ready to give that minimum of 35% of appointment positions, you know, that are going to be occupied in the government to the women. And this was a woman who are competent, who have experienced, who have expertise in various things. There's nothing stopping this administration from giving the women, you know, the responsibility of constituting the bulk of the economic team of the administration we have seen, you know, our women have performed excellently in terms of economic management in the past. So we'll bring experience and bring competence and people who have the experience and expertise on board to come and drive the economy of the country, to come and drive key sectors of governance. And I'm sure there will be productivity, there will be results if this is done. Well, Fermi Lossin, why exactly have we grappled with these? I mean, for a country as as we know that for Africa as a continent, there are other countries that are looking up towards in the continent as a big brother. What exactly has been, you know, our concern with the involvement of women, our challenge, or, you know, struggle with involving women in governance that we have had to have a policy to that effect and up until now implementation is just the problem, not for the cost that you lack women that are qualified. See, the idea is that we should be concerned because there has been a deliberate, you know, tendency by the state to continually suppress that particular demographic which unfortunately constitute the bulk of our population, the majority of our voting population will constitute the strength of any society that seek to develop. No society will seek to develop without involving the women in the development plans of society. But unfortunately, governance in Nigeria in the past have been reduced to the business of the men. And that is why this demand, this agitation, and that sort of need for policy, you know, implementation arrived and continued to be in the front burner of our discussions. And that is why we are still here today. And until we begin to see very conscious efforts by government and other institutions to position women and allow them to end, you know, as much as the men are heading in terms of access to government, in terms of access to, you know, institutions of state, we may continue to have this kind of demand and this agitation for policy implementation. And we must consider that this is a, you know, a demographic that is strong, that is large and cannot just be pushed aside and reduced, you know, to supporters of government and political parties. So does this saying that, you know, is out there? A lot of people have stated that if women are given the position or given the opportunity in governance, it would be a spina for the nation. It would turn things around being the fact that if you look at the nature of women, they ought to be mothers. And that would also bring all of that, you know, into governance. Do you agree with the School of Thoughts? I completely disagree and I will continue to disagree with that School of Thought. It sounds so much like, you know, an inferiority complex on the part of people who push such positions, especially men who push such positions. If you look at where women have been, you know, given positions of responsibility, using these countries as an example in the past, you realize that rather than coming to become dominant, they rather become so used to the system and become so productive in most cases, even more than the men. And if you look at in the past, the trans-economic theme has also been headed by women, are you, the records are dead, that even after office, Dr. Emojo Kojo-Iwela has come to remain relevant and remain productive and just like every other woman who were in the economic team. Like I said, if you look at some of the women that have participated in politics and have contested elections in Nigeria today, you have seen how much they have been able to rally the men around them, you know, to ensure that they deliver on this mandate or, you know, the promises that they are making during elections. It is usually the men. I'm a man. It is usually on our part as men. I find it difficult, you know, playing, you know, operating as team players rather. But I think the women have the capacity to, you know, get more people to work, get more people to drive the process for productivity, even than a lot of men who are usually of that sentiment. So we're saying that, I think that you are going to agree with this school of thoughts, because when I talked about the Spina, I meant that, you know, it was going to be for the positive for women. So yes, you are agreeing to it, not disagreeing, because your position felt like you're agreeing to it. But that's it. But just quickly, because we're out of time. So are we then saying that the issue of governance and politics is a gender issue, that if you're a woman, you can do better contributing, you know, to governance and development and policy making and decision, or if you're a man, it's a different thing. Is it now a gender issue or is the issue of capacity, individuality, personality among others? We cannot continue to talk about capacity without your gender equality, especially when you look at how much women have been relegated in terms of governance, in terms of, you know, participation in politics in Nigeria. Like I said, we must look back and encourage those women who have shown courage, who have shown the readiness, who have shown the capacity. Like I said, a lot of them look at the only female presidential candidate in that election, look at women who contested senatorial election, last look at other women who have shown interest and capacity, who have the zeal, who are the passion, who are the love and patriotism to serve this country and bring them on board, as far as making this gender equality a reality in the new administration. Femi Lawson, this is where we have to let it go. Thank you so much for being part of the show this evening. We do appreciate your time. It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for joining us and that's it on the show tonight. I am messy at Bupu. Have a good evening.