 You're welcome back to breakfast and plus the Africa. Now, are you still on Twitter using VPNs or otherwise? The attorney general of the Federation says you might be prosecuted and to discuss the treat a ban on all its legal implications. We've invited a lawyer, Mr. Ebu Adiburwa, to join us. Good morning. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. So there's a lot of conversation regarding this Twitter ban, you know, lots of lawyers, you know, throwing the perspective regarding, you know, is this constitutional or not. But from your perspective, how do you see it? Is the government breaking any law? Or in fact, is there any law that supports the ban on Twitter? Thank you very much. Let me first state that the steps taken by the government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria in respect of Twitter, it's totally illegal and not constitutional. And the reason is because the engagement between President Monogh Uwari and Twitter is purely personal. The Twitter account is at M. Uwari. It has nothing to do with his position as president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. So the institutions of the state of Nigeria, the laws of Nigeria cannot be deployed in aid of settling personal scores between President Monogh Uwari and a personal organization such as Twitter. Having said that, all the directives that have been given to the Nigerian Bocasting Commission, directives given to the telecommunications organizations to delete Twitter accounts are totally illegal. And the reason is because, as I speak to you this morning, there is no law in Nigeria forbidding any citizen from the use of Twitter or Facebook or Instagram or any other social media platform. And to that extent, a statement from the minister of information, a statement from the press aid or personal assistance to the president, a statement from the Honourable Attorney General is not enough in law to put anybody on that trial because our law is regulated by the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, 1999. Section 36 sub-12 of that main organic document for our country states that nobody shall be tried or convicted except in accordance with a law that is already enforced, either made by the act of the National Assembly or law of the House of Assembly of a state. And an offence is defined and a punishment is prescribed for it. So to that extent, the statement from the executive press releases television declarations where they do not amount to law in Nigeria and no citizen can be punished or tried. And that's why you see that since these declarations have been made on behalf of the government, everybody has been going about their business normally, tweeting and doing what they know best to do because there is no law that forbids anyone from doing so. Having said that, I believe honestly that this issue of Twitter is unnecessary. It's an overkill on the part of the president. You know how many people in the world have issues with their personal micro-blogging platforms and then they use their positions to flex Muslims. So I think that the government of Nigeria should go back to the drawing board and withdraw the threats and restore Twitter back and withdraw the ban of suspension and allow citizens to exercise their freedom of expression. If the president is not comfortable with Twitter, he should remove himself and look for other means of expressing himself other than using the official position to set two personal scores. Thank you. I want to go in an angle that concerns us here in the media. The NBC kindly clarifies what exactly the laws that the NBC is leaning on to are. They have of course acts that media organizations disable their Twitter accounts in accordance with their own laws and in respect for the laws of the land and some of all of that. So quickly share your thoughts on that. Is that because the NBC sees that the AGF has some law with which they can prosecute Nigerians for failing to adhere or they're just playing along? Thank you very much. The Nigerian Bocrastine Commission is established under the Nigerian Bocrastine Commission Act and that act is made by the National Assembly under its powers under Section 4 of the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Now any law that offends any provision of the Constitution will be illegal to the extent of its inconsistency because Section 1 of the Constitution says that the provisions of the Constitution shall be supreme and any other law that is inconsistent with the provisions of the Constitution will give way. Now the National Bocrastine Commission if it proposes to be using the National Bocrastine Commission Act to restrain the freedom of expression and the right of the media will be violated in Section 39 of the Constitution because Section 39 of the Constitution says that every citizen shall be entitled to the freedom of expression to receive ideas and to impart ideas in a country called Nigeria without interference. So any law or statement made by NBC to media organizations to delete their tutor accounts will be a violation of Section 39 of the Constitution and I would be interested to know the reason for self-directed. If it is because President Muhammad Buhari has an issue in respect of his personal Twitter account NBC would be violating the laws of our land by proceeding as an organization to join President Muhammad Buhari to fight his personal war against Twitter because NBC has no business with the personal account of President Muhammad Buhari because the NBC Act does not recognize personal individuals. So I think that Mr. Idachiaba Armstrong with all due respect should go back to take proper counsel from his lawyers and not begin to jump into frame between a private citizen and his social media handles. With all due respect that directive is a constitutional, it's a legal, and I urge media organizations to go to court to challenge it. We are not in dictatorship. Nigeria is a democratic society and you cannot just wake up any day to be issuing directive as it pleases you without complying with the mandates of the law. All right, Mr. Idachiaba, I understand where you're coming from and I actually asked this question to a guest about this Twitter ban yesterday but the NBC is a federal government power struggle. So are they not obliged to obey instructions given by the government? Well, I believe that the Nigerian Bocrossing Commission is a part of the executive arm of government. And so you must distinguish between the government of Nigeria and President Muhammad Buhari. And so to that extent, I believe that if there is a directive from President Muhammad Buhari, from Alaji Lai Mohammed, from Alaji Abu Bakr Malami, who are members of the executive, its own directive cannot be implemented against citizens of Nigeria or organizations set up under the law to set a personal course. So to that extent, I believe that the NBC will be violating the constitution if it proposes to be implementing a directive from the executive to set two personal issues by any member of the executive. So to that extent, I believe that it is the duty of media organizations to bring their lawyers and file cases in court. I'm glad that CERAP and other individuals and NGOs have taken the initiative to want to institute cases in court to challenge the directive by the NBC, which is illegal. Okay, so Mr. Idachiaba, you know, Malami was asked this question, you know, saying, what laws are Nigerians breaking by being on Twitter? Or what laws are you based on the Twitter ban on? And, you know, his response is that, and I quote him at the time, we're gathering them, that we're gathering alleged offenders and assembling them in court and they will get to know which law they are violating in court. So what law do you think, you know, as a lawyer, what law do you think the AGF might, you know, charge Nigerians who are still on Twitter with? Well, I'm a private legal practitioner. The attorney general is the chief law officer of the Federation. Under him are several other officers, director of public prosecutions, all other respected officers in the office of the Honorable Attorney General. So I cannot enter into the mind of the AG to know which law he is talking about as being the basis for his declaration. But as I speak to you this morning, as a member of the inner bar and a senior advocate of Nigeria, I say it with all sense of responsibility that I am not aware of any law in force in this country presently that makes the use of Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or any other social media or microblogging platform illegal. And so to that extent, I have told you that section 36 sub 12 of the Constitution says that nobody can be put on trial. Nobody can be convicted. Nobody can be sentenced except in accordance with a law made by the National Assembly or the House of Assembly of the States. So Nigeria is a federation divided into the executive, legislature, and judiciary. Mr. Abu Bakr Malami, SCN, is a member of the executive. The duty of the executive under the Constitution is to implement policies not to make laws. So the declarations of Honorable Attorney General cannot amount to law. The National Assembly is the one that has the power to make such law and no such law exists. And it cannot be made now because it will be targeted to set to a score between the President and Twitter and such law will be unconstitutional. You cannot make a law for the benefit of a single individual to set to a personal score. So I say this morning to all Nigerians and I challenge the Honorable Attorney General to mention the law. You cannot prosecute people based on suspicion. You cannot prosecute people based on your own personal biases. And the Supreme Court has had occasion to make a pronouncement in such manner in 1962, in the case of our co-enfant baby, where a woman was arrested in Malaysia for purportedly committing adultery by cohabiting with a man and she was charged to court and she admitted the offense and she was convicted. And her lawyers went to court and said in the southern part of Nigeria, there is no law against adultery. There is no law against a woman cohabiting with another man. Even if the woman out of fear confessed to their alleged crime, the court was wrong to have convicted her because there was no law. And the Supreme Court said since 1962, up to today, you cannot take a citizen of Nigeria to court based on threats, based on empty declarations without a law. Otherwise, we are back in the Banana Republic. We are back to military dictatorship. We are back to military rule. So I say it honestly. Any Nigeria who has Twitter should go on tweeting. There is no law in Nigeria, as I speak to you presently, forbidding anybody from using any social media. Well, let's also talk about, you know, I think this may be the big one that a lot of people have asked. And it is, does the Attorney General not know that there is no law? You know, basically that can put a person, or put a person for using Twitter. The vice president also is also in the same field. Do they not know that there is no law? Thank you very much. I would like to say with all due respect that the office of the vice president is mainly in charge of economic policies of the nation. So I do not think that I will lay any blame at the feet of the vice president with all due respect. And even the Attorney General, I do not say that he has no right under the constitution being the chief law officer of the country. It's for us to wait. When anybody is charged to court, we will now see which law the Attorney General is referring to. And it's left for the judges to determine whether that law is can ever stand in face of the constitution. But what I'm saying is that Nigeria should not be powered. Nigeria should not be intimidated. Nigeria should not be harassed by empty threats on pages of newspaper or declarations of a minister without any law. And since he could not mention that law, we say that it is because the law does not exist. So I cannot say that he doesn't know the law, because with all due respect, he's a senior member of the bad and he's a very respected member of the executive arm of government. But I am saying that for me, the best way to do anything is to come up open. You cannot be doing prosecution through ambush. There's nothing to hide in Nigeria or you go all over the world. The law should be made known to people. You cannot charge somebody to court based on speculation. So I challenge the Honorable Attorney General and indeed all those who are threatening, those who are using Twitter to just at least cite the law for which anybody would breach, would be in breach if they tweet as we speak this morning. So I cannot say that he doesn't know the law, but I'm challenging him to mention that law so that we can all test it and go to court and ask the court to make a declaration based on the cases that I've mentioned to you, up to the Supreme Court of Nigeria, which has said that you cannot prosecute anybody based on declarations by the executive, unless there is a law made by the National Assembly. And there's no such law as speak this morning. And what would you say should be the role of the National Assembly at a time like this? I am totally off, as I speak to you this morning, that about 48 hours after the executive arm of government is threatening Nigerians with prosecution, with jiggling. The National Assembly has been silent. They couldn't find their voice. And that's why many of us are saying that this assembly is a cost to Nigeria with all due respect. All that they are interested in is their salaries. At the critical time, when the rights of people are at stake, we ought to hear the voice of the Senate president. We ought to hear the voice of the horrible speaker of the House of Representatives on the side of Nigeria, because they were elected on behalf of the people of Nigeria to make laws. And there is no law made by them banning Twitter. So if the executive is trespassing upon their own constitutional responsibility, I expect the National Assembly to rise up and be courageous to speak and say that we don't have a law banning the use of social media in Nigeria so that they can make the matter clear and put Nigerians at a comfortable position. So I am asking all Nigerians in their various constituencies to call their legislators to order and ask them to assert their constitutional responsibility and not throw us into this banana republic scenario where people just wake up and are threatening citizens where there is no such law in existence. All right. Mr. DeGorua, I apologize to interject. I wanted to ask you, you know, final question from me. How this would affect, you know, how the international community perceives us as a country because we know that the United Nations, the U.S., Canada, the EU have all intervened asking Nigeria to guarantee free press. For me, I think the international community should take note that Nigeria is eventually going the way of dictatorship because for you to compare a country like Nigeria with Iran, with North Korea, you know, with China in terms of society countries that have banned Twitter, it's most regrettable. Nigeria is a democratic country. People have died in this country in order to bring democracy. And so we shouldn't go back to the stone ages where we just wake up. According to the personnel in the secrecy of those who are in office, they begin to lead Nigeria as trade. So our international community to continue to insist that Nigeria is a free country in a country where a security has affected businesses, in a country where people do not have access to maximize their potentials. You see that Twitter and this microblogging platform have become a veritable platform for business, especially for the youth. We're going to have about 40 million people. We're going to have about $12 billion at stake in this kind of economy where there is no opportunity, there's no employment. So our international community to hold President Buhari accountable and put pressure on him to lift the ban on Twitter, which is illegal. All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Ebulu, Adi Bulu, a lawyer, robbing minds on the claim by the attorney general to prosecute Nigerians who still tweet on Twitter. Have a great day. Yes. So we'll take a break here and continue conversations about security with the new Chief of Army staff and the retirement of over 20 generals ahead of him. Do stay with us.