 Online, I think that's all we're doing in progress, all right. We're gonna call the meeting to order. This is the random select board First up is public comment. This is comment on anything that is not currently on the agenda Hang on you hang on Here in the front row. Yeah, just identify your oh, yep Do I need to get up and stand? My name is Nancy Hutchinson. I am here representing little sunshine You're here on the art post. I'm on the art. It's on the agenda. Okay. No, yes John Emmits all East Randolph We have been missing our road sign for since 2019 Did you reach out to the town road trip for me? This will be the fourth time I haven't spoken to the form and no Plus there is a covered bridge whose name escapes me it's off of route 14 before you get the South Randolph Hydro that has been damaged for two years the face of it a truck hit it two years ago and tore off That's kind of unsightly and it'd be nice if it was That roadside Edson Road Yes, Edson Road Anyone else anyone on line That's the end anyone come off. All right. I moved to for approval of the agenda All those in favor I posed Consent calendar I will second Seven seconds away. All those in favor Opposed Next up is new business. We'll start with the errors and emissions and homestead changes Okay, I mean me from the blisters office and assessor This is just to inform you about the homestead changes that Have taken place since We launched the grand list. Yep So we really don't I researched it. We don't need your signatures or approval for the homestead changes Just need to inform you that they happen informed Great next up we'll discuss the town-wide reappraisal next steps Request for commercial income and expense reports. Yep, my name's Ryan Sylvester in the project supervisor for the reappraisal So I'll also take an opportunity right now. Just to give you guys a quick update on where we are with the project. So To date we've inspected the interiors of 750 homes out of 1500 and change improved parcels So we are running about a 50% entry rate, which is astonishing. It's great. That's awesome community you know cooperation and improvement with that so It's really encouraging. We're going to send out reinspection letters this winter for all people whose homes we haven't been able to enter yet Or if we've had scheduling conflicts, so we'll have more appointment schedules and hopefully get that percentage a bit higher We'll be done with the original residential data collection by I'd say the end of January and I'll be completed with commercial data collection By the end of February So that brings us to how we would Aim to value all the commercial property in town through the income and expense approach Where we'd be sending out? Inventory request forms to all the commercial property owners in town Requesting how their property in real estate makes and costs the money So how much is landscaping plowing utilities versus what's the rent of the real estate that comes in? So we're looking for rent rolls. That's the one That's the only data the state allows us to keep confidential So when we're looking at rent rolls, it's the most accurate way for us to value commercial property Because when you put when you sell a commercial building you're selling that building's ability to make money So a lot of people confuse that with we're asking for what the business within the real estate Is is doing you know financially and that's we're not interested in that at all the business within the real estate Means nothing to us. So just wanted to kind of get that on the record Typically when we send these out because no one's ever sent them out before it stirs the pot a bit So that's kind of the reasoning for me to be here tonight to give you that overview and also feel any questions if you may have them So you use the word inventory What's that? So the state has inventory request forms So it'd be the same thing for solar when we value solar We have to get information from the owner in order to use that data as a worksheet to come to a value so It would be the same thing for gravel pits to we send out inventory request forms for gravel pits For their length of the project the type of material How many yards per year so on so it's based on that same methodology? So it's basically the income and expense inventory form basically has two columns What were your expenses for the year on the property? Do you have any capital? Do you have any capital retainers who have Capital funds and what was the income generated from the real estate on the property in the previous year? So I would caution you not to use the word inventory In prior years there was an attempt to put an actual inventory tax in play and that really got people Pretty riled up. So I think a topic that's already gonna get them excited Might have a little fuel added to the fire with that word You can just call it an eye any questionnaire, you know, just call it something that Give some that Get you the data you want without Any, you know applying sure that it has anything to do with their business inventory per se. Yep Okay, I Think you're right. I think it is gonna fire them up. What if you own the property like you don't rent it You don't have any rental so there will be there will be a disclaimer Pretty much at the top saying please fill this out to the best of your ability Because if you are owner occupied it is it's gonna be really difficult To fill that out You're not gonna keep track of those of those financials year to year if you're on our occupy But at least the expenses so what we you know with your owner occupied we can at least get a good expense, you know A quarry from you so we can kind of average keep averaging those out So is that commercial? How do you define commercial is that? Rental homes to like multi-unit apartment homes, or is that just yeah, so we'll be we'll be sending them out to actual apartment buildings, so I like any I think you have a handful of them I don't believe we're not going to be sending them out to multi-unit to multi-unit homes We'll kind of be able to look at We have a lot of other ways to look at rents for those for one two three bedroom units in town stuff like that So it'd be you know industrial buildings shaws You know your your auto auto garages stuff like that the swing gauge who will be calling Sure. Yeah, so you have approximately a hundred. I have a hundred you have a hundred ninety six commercial commercial coded properties, so and how long do you expect that will take so we're at the end of February right Sending those out so well, so we're going to send them out in January We like to send them over at the beginning of the year because that's when a lot of folks are getting prepared for their taxes And it coincides all the same information coincides with that the physical Data collection that I'll be doing will be concluded by February where I go measure all the buildings inspect the buildings that I'm allowed into So it's just income and expense is the most accurate way for us to value commercial We can value by cost and sales approach I think there are a couple decent, you know commercial sales in town But it will be hard to get the industrial buildings and stuff like that, so And then walk me through the rest of the timeline. So you have that data You'll have try to get into as many of the 750 remaining residential properties and at what point do you start crunching the numbers to have New values that go out to sure everyone so our deadline for the sales analysis window is April 1st 2024 so it'll be April 1st 2021 to April 1st of 2024, so we're already crunching numbers We're already looking at the sales that have that have happened in town And we'll just keep following them all right up to that equal first aid so we get as much as many sales you can use May Pretty much April May June so And April beginning of May is when we'll be sending out our preliminary value notices, which will then give All the residents information as the hottest schedule informational hearings with us New England Municipal Consultants So we're going to add an informal level of appeal ahead of the your formal town grievance process Those will be held mid-May And that will pretty much be ending the process for for us and that's when we'll hand it back to Mimi The assessor and listeners for them to handle their formal grievance, which we will be a part of as Consultants, but we'll have no decision-making We're just there to basically say this is what this means interpret interpret the information And the commercial side will have their values at the same time. Yeah, all values will be released at the exact same time. Yeah Any questions on that Sorry, I wanted to get the process all the way through so people knew when to expect that That letter that everybody's gonna go what Yeah, the Biggest point. I just want to make with the income and expense Questionnaires that we're not valuing the business within the real estate. We're just valuing the real estate as a business So in class they say you're not valuing the item on the shelf. You're valuing the shelf Any other questions Great, thank you Next up is a grant application request from Kimball Any questions on that request? Any motions? Just please be aware there are this is Amy from Kimball library there are two grant application requests The first one for fluorescent to light picture replacement buddy deeds Seems straightforward enough that I will second All those in favor I post Motion carries Another one of the tasks you'd given Amy a couple of Those a while ago was to see what funds can be garnered This is another source of funding for that project Those in favor opposed motion carries Next up in your money for a grant for Park space at Branchwood One of the things we can apply for for vorac funding We've usually used it for trail or trail related stuff the huts program the Bellamot one was last year's application We've had good success with these grants. This would be for taking And if you go back to when we had a presentation on the Branchwood scoping study the two rivers put together I'm kind of the long smokestack parcel There was some public Park space that was shown on one of the site plans kind of on the Pleasant Street end of it So this would be for scoping engineering construction and design Did documents basically to queue it up if we wanted to go forward with an actual implementation project So the work funds would go Toward those pieces take that from that initial very conceptual site plan All the way out Theoretically at least is something we could go out to bid for So that's what the application would be for those two pieces So tonight they're just seeking approval to apply for the grant. Yeah Well, it's a little bit of any questions She just wants to move her made a noise Okay, you had a question about the board agreement. I just want to Inject that This is nothing to do with the ARPA funding that proposal that was Initiated by the ARPA committee. It's got nothing to do with Because there was that one proposal that said they wanted to create a park there. It's got nothing to do with that Different group similar idea different process I will make a motion that we Approved the grant application process for the vorac grant for parts basic branch with Those in favor Opposed motion carries Discuss and review the ARPA list Between the committee and the town's Yeah, so as a reference in the packets Kind of the next steps for you all 2024 is the year with which we've got to obligate funds so figure out where we want to spend them Where we want to send them in the direction of 2026 is the deadline to actually have them spent there are a couple of different ways to view that based on guidance from VLC 2 to 2 rivers. So this is just to try and Come back to this conversation so in the packets you've got the list of the committee looked at just with their priority rankings I'm gonna go back through and pull any of the associated costs with that and or see if we need to develop any And then there's all along from the very beginning your very first conversation with me at least about our going back to May of 2021 We talked about a town list as part of that So the projects that probably aren't going to come in through a public solicitation But that fit that our book criteria as it was originally designed so Sustainability Participation how do you continuity of operations if we had another pandemic or similar event water quality those are all In that bucket In addition to there's discretion on how to you spend those funds even beyond that that was some of the Second round of guidance, I guess once everybody started to ask questions about that So we've developed that list for you to look at too And then the idea is to start that conversation again so that you can get to the point where you need to Obligate funds in 2024 and then once we've figured out where to obligate It also helps us at a staff level figure out if there's a mechanism that needs to be created in terms of if money's going to an outside Entity and or it's for there's ideas for community grant programs and some of these other things How can we set up a process? For that so when it's time to spend it we're ready to do that should you make that decision identify any issues there That's a mechanical concern, but that's a that's in that pipeline becomes a little bit later So what you have are those lists they're in the packets. I don't know if we want to Go through them Some of the ARPA funds have already been spent if you go back to last year's police conversation Dedicated two hundred thousand dollars to start up we found ourselves in that spot suddenly about a year ago We spent a little less than a hundred and seventy thousand of that There's 30 that returns to that general ARPA pool, which was always the intent anything on spent would return back in late spring early summer you Provided a hundred thousand dollars to the Orange County parent child center project when they had Flash flow might be the easiest way to think about it and that was the number one ranks priority on the ARPA committee's list as well So the decision was made even though we were a little bit ahead of the curve with all the other projects that that was a Moment of synthesis that we could spend the money. So there is three hundred or two hundred sixty eight That's already been spent on that total amount So just see if I can find my sheets here So yeah, we got an award of about one point three seven million. We spent like I said 268,000 and change so there's about one point one remaining for allocation And then I think as you can see just from in looking at the town's list and trying to envision what some of the cost So the projects would be on the committee's list that we probably have more requests than we have money Some of what is in here to talk about to keep in mind and you may want to go a different way But we've got it in the town list for now at some point. We're going to have to make a match Towards the FEMA related costs for the July storm that was never obviously in our mix We don't forecast natural disasters of that magnitude, but we're going to be responsible for 12 and a half percent of that We don't have that kind of cash just laying around And if we take it at one of the more conservative estimates, we might be up around 375 could even be up closer to four and for some reason some of those unknown costs More expensive than we think we talked about remaining costs. It's North Randolph Road slope stabilization It's that little section off Lincoln have and we have some estimates for that But the big unknown is what do we do with the North Randolph Road bridge temporary bridges in place? That could be a substantial project that'll be one that'll determine probably that final number in terms of What we're going to have to make 12 and a half percent of So I put that in here It may not be the most aspirational use of those funds, but this is a funding source that is available So that's kind of the biggest single chunk The other one is embedded in some of the uncertainty over the town Conversation of pleasing just showing you what three cards of cost That's how we pay for the other three to need to be replaced. They need to be a new one again. This is just all Put it on the table. I know there's some push-and-pull about Those funds district versus town-wide need So I get that some of the other projects in the town's list are what we've said We were gonna do all along try to figure out how to use the funds to put us in position to better compete for grants for bigger dollar projects So how to go out and get there really is more money out there than they've been in a long time Can we go out get those funds manage those funds? So bigger projects With bigger impacts public works style projects and look to spread them around water quality is a big one We're ready to get it as a town-wide benefit. We know we have road segments But don't need some of the standards for that. So that's a good way to hit water quality goals improve that There's some road resiliency improvement as we saw the places where we've done some of these projects held at well during the July storm So we'd be looking to use the existing Road erosion inventory culver inventory of grade those sections You use it as grant match for certain grant funds. We might be able to stretch it even farther So that was one you send in the rest of the ones there's a little bit for economic development electric vehicle charging stations, which are also in With committee got four projects Different technology based upgrades so that we had another pandemic or similar event. We'd still be able to function. So that's everything from revamping the website to Looking into permitting and licensure software that we get sort of add on to that So that if for some reason the offices were closed you'd be able to do everything from a water bill to apply for a zoning permit to You know you name it you'd be able to do it right from that one portal and we price some of those pieces out and identified some vendors And that fits that resiliency and sustainability and we put a little bit to see if maybe we can do some meeting room technology upgrades This is a new owl. It does look like the picture is a little clearer than the last iteration of we still have the old one for upstairs or other use But this is sort of how to mitigate some of the sound issues make sure there's access There's you know, it's pretty easy so that if we have to go remote and or semi remote People can still participate In that so it's those types of projects that are in there and then a community grant program That's how there's something others are trying. I talked about mechanical things. That'd be one we have to set parameters criteria application before we were able to Send money out the door, but you see communities around the nation form those as a way to get those dollars Out into the community for sort of broader project purposes Just in looking back to the list of the committee got some of these downtown pedestrian improvements was the one right after Orange County parent child center There are some of these pieces are in work. I mean as you see with the board grant some of these things Have already shot off and found other funding sources around different paths Or have you know different avenues available to them Stroll to Randolph senior center on a sidewalk was one of them Well, that's in a scoping study that you just approved to grant for through a v-trans program So that process is in motion On sort of a separate track but parallel to all this Community Park at the smokestack area as Maria had mentioned Through the borough grant so some of these things may take different forms But we can pull those pieces in a parts piece Identify some of these things Hellbaker keeps turning on and off every time it does that's what I can hear in my head So just kind of this is a refresher this is a review one of the things to think about we can formalize this is whether or not You want some kind of obligation process so much like the committee did spent a lot of time developing a matrix To take those projects that it got and figure out how to prioritize and rank them Do you want to go that formal? Do you want something else? So just start thinking about Do you want something that you can? Feed everything to and turn it you know turn it through the risk mill and come out How do you want to evaluate these so that there's some process for the decision-making And we can give you some ideas based on what others have done, but we've been done before so at future meetings Put you on that direction Setting a rough timeline for obligation You nice to be on the earlier end Rather than later in scrambling to meet that 2024 deadline, but responding to slightly chaotic moments Special Do we have any questions on the projects already identified because we have two parties here asking to be added to the list That didn't go through the process of a committee It's a couple of just but maybe just one comment about our priorities in terms of we spent this money and to me well We have the FEMA match which seems important for obvious reasons You know we have to raise that money somehow somehow no matter what it's not an option and so It's just kind of nice timing that we don't have to go out and borrow that money to do these repairs but in terms of most of the other projects seems to me that The best use of this money in many cases is going to be to either Be using it as seed money to pull in other money Right where we're using it to as the as the match and leverage it to get other money especially for For projects that like we might not be able to do otherwise and the other sort of bucket is Money that will be sort of like a Real investment of some sort where we can even if we can't calculate it We're like pretty sure we're gonna see some sort of a good return on the best I'm not just kind of the kind of thing that would be like Well, this would be kind of nice to have wouldn't that be great But more like well if we do do this We know it's gonna have these kinds of effects and it's gonna bring us economic value and some and some you know Significant way and one of the ones that that occurs to me It's into that category would be like we've already started doing some of this is like website development where it seems like it's a really obvious need we haven't been really Been able to prioritize it high enough on our list with the money we've had but it really seems like one of those things that It's gonna have a real economic return to us over time It's gonna be really hard to measure what that return is But it seems like so anyway, so I'm thinking those are the kinds of things To really make best use of this money so that we feel the effects of this money over You know a really long period for the positive of the website though is it does it meets the other goals of the money So we have another pandemic and nobody can come in the town Everything And it I think it adds Depending how you do it it you see the benefit not only in that area of resiliency But you see it in day-to-day operations, right? So we're struggling right now with staff hours and So anything we can do like that that improves that I think is your spot Yeah, I have a means that we don't have to hire a certain amount of hours in house Then we're saving money every year because we're not spending as much money on staff time for certain things Yeah, that's a real investment. It pays us back money green Hormonize some of the different things too So I mentioned the licensing and permitting software and we can possibly use that for dog licenses for example There's a process to verify vaccinations and stuff before we mail tags for example, but That's been a common use of this and other platforms And we've talked to some of those municipalities that have used it for that And then if we can integrate it with some of the recreation-based stuff you truly could From your pandemic bunker. I Don't know what program you're gonna register for probably something that's provided online, of course But you know But you could do it all there one payment one payment module make it a little bit easier to use that payment module for everything and I'm basically joining modern era we're most Almost how many people are gonna use this for day-to-day commerce basically I mean Pay bills you set them up. Yeah, but that's part of it, right? It isn't even pandemic related like you want to sign your kid up for a sports event or something it's so much easier just to then have to come here and track down somebody and hand them a check and So I think I think that's right and I also Agree that some we ought to be focusing on what's gonna put us in a good position to use it to leverage and if that means doing some preliminary engineering studies or Getting things ready so that when grant funds come out that Launches us into it. We've got some pretty big items coming that we're not ready for and You know the money's out there. We're just not in a position to apply for it. Yeah, I would Definitely put a set us up. All right. We have two folks that wanted to add to it So this is an opportunity to talk about yours. I don't hear very well Do you have a microphone that you can speak into? What would you like me to just? It's your chance to tell us what your project is and what you think the life board ought to do to all right Yeah, put you on the list. So I am the president of little sunshine child care center. We're hoping to open an 18 A child care center for infants and toddlers 18 total in Bethany house on Main Street and Randolph So we're conveniently located to downtown Randolph and the businesses and I know that we missed the deadline for Applying and I know that you funded another child care center But I also know that there's a huge demand for child care. And so I'm just here to Get on the public record that we are going to be opening a child care center. Hopefully by August 1st and We have two large grants. We've been awarded one already And we're waiting we should hear within the next few days of our second one And if we get the second one word, we are short 51 thousand dollars To do like we have to have an alarm system and some plumbing upgrades And so we're trying to piecemeal together 51,000. So I'm coming before the board just to say that we would be Happy if we could receive some funds and Do you have any questions about It's pretty straightforward Oh Yeah My name's Nancy Hutchinson and we are short 51 thousand dollars the two grants that we applied for the Construction work isn't covered. So we have to find another funding source for the construction part. So our grants cover, you know some salaries and rent and all the equipment that we need and Supplies and stuff, but the which really doesn't make sense, but anyhow Thank you Okay, and the second one is yours. Yes, my name is Erica Hoffman case and I'm the executive director of Green Mountain Economic Development Corporation and this isn't so much a It's a new iteration of a project that's on your list for innovation and entrepreneurship programming Just to share a little bit as an RDC we act as a facilitator to support the economic development priorities of the 30 municipalities that we serve and Previously, I've been here for the number one project Orange County Parent Child Center Randolph For childcare and we're also working with a little sunshine on their efforts On that project we GMDC are acting as the real estate developer Tonight, I'm actually here as a representative of cultivator supporting the proposal for renovation funds this is a manifestation of a three-year partnership with the town of Randolph and This is to introduce innovation and entrepreneurship programming to the region The proposal you're considering tonight is an update of the earlier project request that was submitted in this instance GMDC is acting as a fiscal agent to stand up cultivator and This would the cultivator itself acting as a hub for the programming We are funding two positions our program manager position Abby Solomon and strategic advisor Matthew Johnson And this project really speaks directly to what mr. Sackowitz was speaking of in terms of investment for long-term impact As an RDC for this region I have spent a lot of time with the Randolph Economic Development Committee when it was meeting and During that time the group was constantly seeking to support both existing and new businesses in Randolph and The renovation that we're proposing of the merchants row site meets both those objectives The space is currently vacant It's downtown on a portion of the streetscape that has seen some some activation But this is kind of a blank spot on that road that street And it's also owned by an existing business owner adjacent to the space who would like to activate it But it hasn't really found the right match for funding to do so so by Utilizing ARPA funds to activate the space for the cultivators home base as we initiate the programming The intention is this is phase one phase two would see a much broader larger facility that would be its home base Perhaps maybe next to the park over at Brantwood that would be welcome It also lowers the barriers to entry for any other existing businesses that may be interested in coming to downtown, but don't have the funding available to them to outfit the space to meet their needs the renovation will Provide a kind of a blank canvas with restrooms Kitchen facilities and an open space that would be available not only for cultivator programming and the entrepreneurship innovation spaces but community based functions the tagline for cultivator is where community collaborates and That's very much in line with what we intend to do with the space Anything to add from my colleagues Questions and how much are you asking for 80,000 the biggest portion of that would be windows Which would really improve the street visual for that portion of the street as well Any questions on that project? Okay This is space Jimmy see what fun I may have missed this who owns the space The landlord of the adjacent so the cultivator will be a tenant Yes, so the Afro cons will go to upgrade the landlord's windows In preparation for activation not only for cultivator, but for other For-profit or non-profit businesses Thank you, I would just add that the landlord has had other interested entities Look at the space But ultimately not be able to afford the renovation to activate the space so part of this plan utilizes and already well Funded from a grant perspective around startup the cultivator initiative To activate that space so that when the cultivator is Matureing and can move to another space that up front cost is no longer there and new businesses can move in behind the cultivator afterwards And you also mentioned match to look at the numbers a little bit more What the other funding that's coming into cultivator is about half a million in grant funding from the Economic Development Administration through a built-to-scale grant partnership we have with black group renovation campus But that's not money being invested in that same building. No, if there's no renovation or construction costs It's the human capital And program which we already have a scheduled program starting up in January Any other questions on that? All right. Thank you I You have a project you want to add to this or discuss how they're going to be so we're talking about the projects that are being put before the board Consider Yes, I just had a follow-up question about the general thing I Can I ask it? Morgan Easton I Work as a recreation coordinator, but prior to that I did submit three proposed Projects, I never really heard anything specifically follow-up from that so Also from what was mentioned earlier that a lot of folks have started to move forward on these projects in Looking for other funding sources So I was wondering if there was any potential for two Two things to happen one would be a Revisit of this list to see what is currently relevant of a project that still needs to be considered or not and also is there consideration of It's a lot of crossover and redundancies. Was there any Process or going to be a process to Consolidate these into department specific Relevancies for the town and review those with the with the relevant departments No, I think what you heard so tonight's just about introducing the list of the board Yeah, and get having the board go and think about what they think the process ought to be going forward So there is no process yet. There is no But you're there will be an update Oh, I can't imagine we're just gonna award the money and somebody's already gone and got it No, there'll be some level of communication with the folks that applied that We decide, you know, I don't know what the process will be Okay, that's what the board has to decide. Okay, so tonight was just about here's the list of everything that came in through the committee Here's the list of what's coming in through the town. We had a couple folks reach out to say, hey, can we yeah? Pitch ours to be added to the list. That's all tonight is about yeah, and then you know, I just know It's been come back at the next meeting and talk about What what should the selection process look like and? How do we get? Yeah decision point. Just the only point Trying to make is that I did Put in these applications a year ago, and I've not heard anything as follow-up so that's why I think a lot of these projects have just moved forward in other directions just to Make a comment about that Oh, yeah, I think you're right on I'm Maria Puglisi and I'm a member of the ARPA Committee and or the laws and I think Larry just said it very well in that we have to keep in mind what what the goal of the ARPA money was and Triforce it was mentioning some things that we need money for but I'm not sure they're appropriate for our pre-use and so I think we and I think it'd be really wise to At least give some notice to the people that apply that they their projects are being looked at or something because we as a committee We we gave that information to you guys to kind of take it take it and I'd be happy to help if you guys Are interested in getting any of my input from what went on in the committee meetings or What we were really looking at with the numbers and and how we felt about each of the projects Because there was there are different ideas that were in there that you probably are not aware of Trevor Maybe we're some of them, but he at the very end. He wasn't though at those meetings. So he probably doesn't know Law has changed in the year since these were open for application Yes So we've had to prioritize and triage Based on what was most relevant at the time with the idea being that some things would be picked up and run through a process later on And updates would be needed So nothing was ever just left We have to make choices based on footprint to get things done and get them done in the order They need to be done and that was the decision-making matrix And both part of the process will be kind of what how do we get that debrief of What you guys went through what you talked about what the priorities were kind of how did you get to the decision? She made I'd be happy to help with that if you They were just you know for us I think at the end That word Does he doing stuff? So Any other questions on this list Okay East Valley Community Group building funding proposal continued I think I have got paper copies of it folks do I Take one down pass it around Yeah, I think it's thanks for seeing me tonight First off I'd like to Commend the town for making the decision and move forward and Try to find a grant writer to work for the town. I think it's a it's a wise decision and a big step forward for the town Additionally, I left a report at your places the community spaces and places report Which is put together several years ago Included quite a quite a few town members and Mel Adams and hidey areas and Judy Evelyn Tony Keller a steering committee as well as a basically who's who local organizations The reason I shared this with you Beyond the fact that I think it's great reading to get a pulse of What people in the community felt was important Within their towns it also prominently features the East Valley Community Group as one of the civic infrastructure So solutions to what the people in the town desired from their community So I'll leave that for you to review and digest that your leisure but As you go through that, I think you'll find lots of good information Especially about the East Valley Community Group So thanks again for seeing us quick agenda. We're going to talk about the benefits of the hall Proposed article for the hall the furnishment plan and a little history as well So the East Valley Community Group has been working with the town of Randolph Developing an approach for restoration of the community of all since 2020 We work with the town to develop a scope of work which was used by the town to issue an RFP for architectural services The outputs from that architectural services contract led To several levels of pricing for the football restoration These ran from basic needs to options that included expansion of the services that a restored hall could provide Continued restoration and enhancement of the hall would be a focus of a restarted capital campaign by the East Valley Community Community Group which to date has raised forty eight thousand dollars Towards the refurbishment of the hall Today we'll be presenting a request for an article to be placed to the voters in the upcoming town 2020 for ballot which provides funding for the restoration of the hall To cover again some of the benefits of the hall It could be turned from what is basically an empty Hulk Draining some monies from the town to One that generates income for the town and which will cover its operating expense once restored It could act as a fundraising site for the hall rest of restoration town committees and local groups training and meeting site for the volunteer fire department a Restored hall is indicative of a vibrant and vital community arise Local property taxes when the hall is restored would no doubt occur cultural and educational activities for all ages could be held there Disaster relief staging ground storage meal preparation and shelter for North South and East Randolph Where presently there are no? This facilities for that community meeting room for local clubs and A location for Randolph select board meetings and advisory commuting meet meetings when you want to have a meeting outside of this hall The proposed article for the hall restoration restoration plan is as follows I'll read it to you shall the town voters authorized the sum of up to $890,000 to be borrowed by the town for the restoration of the foundation and structural Stabilization of the East Valley Community Hall Annual payments for the project will be included in subsequent annual budgets until the payment schedule has been fulfilled This request is inclusive of a 10% contingency fund Contractor overhead and profits and general conditions Costs which include project management So this this would come to work To get the hall to a point where the structure is restored and further work can then be done Without additional demolition or reversing of any previous Restoration activity if this is approved And we suggest it's placed in front of the voters to make a decision These fellow community group would restart its capital campaign which has been on hold To pursue funding to go alongside of the funding provided by the town and would continue that activity into the future to fund future restoration and improvements in the hall a commitment by the hall Excuse me by the town would greatly enhance the ability of our view to raise money in its capital campaign Including other funding activities such as a go fund me and others so The question we pose to the select board this evening is will the select board place an article to the voters in the upcoming 2024 ballot For this restoration I'm not sure we can answer that tonight So I don't know that we can tell you that I think we got a look at We've talked about this before about the town's bonding capacity so we have statutory requirements of debt that we can get into and I thought our when we looked at that we were a couple years out before we would ever get to the point where we can bond more Is there any other? Possibility of some other approach that could be taken that working with our fundraising capacity which we've proven we can do Collaboratively that will allow us to continue to move forward His here's where we are today. We've we as a group have been working on this for four years over four years We've raised that seat. Can we have the conversation stop please we've we've we've raised money But we're reaching a point where without some kind of a commitment from the hall It's impossible for us to go out and ask people to contribute money to the restoration of a hall that may never occur We have to we have to get beyond that hurdle if we're going to effectively raise money Which we think we can do and I think we've proven we can do because we haven't really gone public with our campaign yet Yet, we've raised forty eight thousand dollars So we're we're asking for a way forward with the town at this point because if If if if we can't map out a way forward that I'm not sure this space left For for us to be involved with this project so Trevor correct me if I'm wrong debt Debt is any type of debt that the town gets into so it can be bonding it can be our bond anticipation note It's our debt on equipment and on vehicles It's that whole total value of indebtedness no matter how you get into it that counts as your debt to It's not debt to income ratio, but whatever it's called, but it's that type of thing. It's a We're limited on what that number can be and all those operational pieces and the long-term debt all counts as one of In when we get to that value. So if we're if we're talking about Bonding or if we're talking about a loan or we're talking about anything that has a repayment requirement That's in that number That's our expenditure ratios the number we're looking at and it's basically 15% it's sort of that high end of a best practices number five to 15% your general range Depends on your local appetite bar on capacity all those things Basically you go north of that number. That means you're putting more of your operating funds into paying back debt service You're south of that number You've got more from operating and preserve capacity to go and get future debts for the big projects that you need to freeze up That capacity or make sure it's available when you get and then it ties into some of the statutory provisions about How much can you borrow related to your grant that ties back to grant list? So there's a couple of different layers in there when we consider debt of any kind We got to be thinking about all of those things to make sure that we're healthy in the moment and down the road And we've talked through budgets for years about trying to get that debt to expenditure ratio Down to get some of the debt off the books so that what we've reserved as capacity for The things that we really need we really want that you know, can we go to pay as you go approaches more often for Vehicles big equipment those types of things 2027 28 is the year when If nothing else comes on we start to see That part open up that open up But you think of where the service isn't where it's going like where that window starts to open and it's the I think it's the Chelsea Road and that bond that that is the one that needs to come up But that debt piece even takes in like if you lease your copier that lease payment counts as that Into that ratio like it gets pretty detailed what they look at for that and It's unfortunately that's the better way to go to tell you the truth, but and I would add that You know, there's there's a lot of projects out there, which people would really like to see happen that were that require This kinds of these kinds of expenditures and if we go back a few years When we got a new finance manager one of the first things he did after looking at our books was say we have this we had we were just about to Begin in the process of borrowing money to do to redo Maple Street and Cliff came in and he said no way we can't afford it We don't have the capacity to pay back Any additional debt we're already past where we need to be and so we stopped that project before it got started So the great disappointment of every single person living along that street And that's a critical infrastructure project that will need to be done as soon as We have the capacity for it. So what is our capacity today? So on zero so so it's it's it's not great That's that's I think our point is there's there's a lot of Essential items that are going to happen before we can go out and bond a million dollars for East East Valley Community Hall This is the situation What other way can we do without we have the money that you Larry very very Very well Spoken earlier this evening everything that you said Dives right into this project. That's how you saw some of the ARPA money being used we've had If the town can do a portion of that 800,000 we've got a lot more Advantages to getting grants to help fill the rest of it. We don't have any way of getting grants right now because it's not a project The other thing is John did take time to check with bread loaf to see how our numbers were in relation to Two years ago. Yeah, almost two years ago. This is the updated number and these are the updated numbers and they are Including it's as if bread loaf were to do the project which included all the management stuff that we Don't know that we have to do quite as much as that So this project is on the ARPA list we saw that tonight right and so once we get the process sorted out It'll be considered with the other projects. I mean we can't give you a decision on that either tonight It is another revenue source that's out there, right for some of these projects But if you saw the list, there's all I know a fair amount of competition there, too It's the nature of the beast unfortunately rational grant that we went for that we were going we were getting almost all that amount and It came up between that and the water system water systems in Randolph Yep, and so you chose to do the water systems, which I understand that's been a problem for 40 years I can heard about it at supper at my house 40 years ago So What's the path forward for us? Is there a path forward severe question? I think can it go to the town as just a Special article Of what that it wouldn't be bonded that it's raised by tax money Can it go that way to the town? So one year request for a nine hundred thousand dollar increase Or part of that spread it out over what how you're gonna indebted not you got debt. So you got it You got to pick one or the other If you go for nine hundred thousand and you want the pound to raise a hundred thousand dollars a year We're then committed for the next eight years at a hundred thousand dollars. It's like a loan It's a dead in this so it's either one hundred times Hit of nine hundred thousand which is never gonna fly That's not gonna fly either I mean you can try but I'm gonna tell you right now. It won't fly. I think you're gonna find yourselves very disappointed You go that route Even at 450 even at 250 even at we are at times right now where over half of the people Had trouble paying their tax bills and you're talking about you have Articles from the state coming out talking about potentially an 18 to 20 percent increase for school budgets But not like this is not going to I don't see people saying yeah tax me for another 450,000 For this project. I don't see it Yeah, and I did look into the separating of the tent of the hall from the fire station a little bit more to get some Of that history and what happened when the fire station was built. It was built as a garage So all of the codes That were needed for a barrage was what they had to do everything else that they needed was in the hall so if they were to divorce from the hall The station would have to put an addition on which also involves a whole lot of new codes power waters septic stair showers Bathrooms, but we don't have to meet all those codes if we separate that It's an existing structure. I couldn't hear you Trini. I'm sorry. What did you say? It's not but it's not it depends how you do it if you did it as a standalone primary station Your codes have to meet that if you do it as an ancillary. It doesn't have to be that So We're looking for clarity That's all we're looking for tonight if you're saying there's no path forward for this group to continue With trying to restore this town building Then I'd like to hear that said because we don't want to waste our time It's restoration the only option the group is willing to consider versus still Thinking about options of how to create and make a community space At the location It's just restoration and preservation of Historical buildings is a more expensive way We'll building Now we'll consider with our community efforts and everything if we can't use the building right if this path is not open to us to restore the building then The community has to be open to other ideas But what we need to know is is this path? Open or closed to us It's a simple question and we we individually we've spent hundreds of hours on this And I don't want to spend another hour on it if I'm so not going forward is the half Restoration of the existing building or is the path Creation of the community center because there are two different things Not at my mind right now What that second thing you're talking right would go would be on the table if this other path is closed Because if you put this on the ballot whether you put it on the ballot 450 or 900 or 890 or whatever figure it is You're going to get pushed back from people that are going to say Could we create a community center at that location that isn't in the restored building but is in so the restored building This is hypothetical. I'm just putting it on. There's no restored building goes away. It's destroyed It gets destroyed and we construct a new building on this site. I'm not You know, I'm not an engineer. I'm not a contractor But I think you could probably achieve more of what you're looking for for less than $890,000 That would see the building go away and something going in place. I'm just putting that out there I think a reasonable townsperson a reasonable taxpayer is going to ask that question of you What's the boy decision? That's a board decision, right? The ultimate decision whether to destroy it and put a new building up. Yes, the town would Have to make the decision to allow the building to be destroyed in a new building to go up but and we have to make that in the context of every other challenge that we're facing right now in terms of Infrastructure needs like the building of the new reservoir that we're involved I mean, there's this whole litany of things that understood That's that's those those things never never never go away. It's not understood So so what I'm hearing is the path is closed to the restoration The select board's perspective for this building and that we should if we intend to come back to the select board Come with other alternatives No, I think what you're hearing is if it means indebtedness of any type for the town right now We can't do it. We're maxed out in our debt. I think it's in I think Trevor's right It's till like 2028 like so we have a long term before we can take on any major debt And I don't know that Any sizable You know tax increase or whatever isn't gonna fly either There's a lot of stuff coming in this next For lack of a better word privatizing the ownership of the building. No, we haven't considered it No, it's suppose the town chose to sell the building to an interested investor and then Put it on the market. Yeah, that's what you want to do put it on the market Well, I'm just putting it out there as hypothetical. I'm not saying that's what we want to do No, we suggest that Yeah Couple things I'm not sure that that you can Demolish the building plus erect another entire new building on top of the old site and do it For a whole lot less money than it would cost you to renovate what you've got So I'm Concerned about that. The other thing is You know if if we have to wait, I'm hearing we have to wait another five years perhaps to be in the running for getting some support from the town to To refurbish the building What's gonna happen to the building in the meantime, I mean it's sitting there deteriorating as we speak Sounds like there's a lot of conclusions being jumped to beyond Conversations come a little further than the original and I think the fair conclusions this this this is not a one-night conversation This is a conversation that's been there not for five years So, okay, okay quote Morgan The 890 number that's out there though is only for foundation and stabilization Right, so your total is much higher than that. So you're No, it's 88 or two. Yeah, but you're still then you have more on top of that So I I think it is fair to say that you could Look at other options on that site and be under that number. I mean, that's a that's a pretty high number And I get it like when you're doing historic stuff And when you're dealing with like a stone foundation and when you're dealing with some of the repairs that have been done There and the windows and all those pieces it racks up quick I just I do think it's a it's an interesting concept to say is that it but I think we're still in the same boat like We can't go into debt for this like it's a tough spot and I think Tom you asked before Is it a you know, is it a community center we seek or is it historic preservation a new also? Alyssa brought that up a bit and I think I think I can speak for the East Valley community group and say We are a community Building organization that is we aim to to increase resilience and the economic viability of the East Valley in what we're doing and so our primary goal is Community rather than historic preservation. So we're not trying to To retain An old building for the sake of its looks and character despite the fact that it has very positive looks And the the I think you'll remember back in 2018 there was a there was a whole group of citizens that came together to And they called themselves the tri-town places and spaces group, right? That was yeah, and and there so that was of course that had a regional focus people were trying to Again address some of the ills that have happened in Randolph over the course of the years of societal factors beyond our general control that have resulted in Difficulties and families and in the economy and so on and so forth and and our group came together in order to say We one thing that we know from our experience common sense and reading is that we need to Create venues where people can encounter each other in a safe environment a safe Non-religious environment so that everybody can feel comfortable Which is sort of what civic societies about? So I just wanted to make clear that that's been our thrust We're not a group of preservationists. We're a group of community Building people so in that context then Josie the best question to be asking you the question to be asking yourself is if that's the priority Is this the best way to expend? $890,000 Or is there some way you can achieve that? Same goal at a much lower cost while Unfortunately Sacrificing what I will agree with you as a beautiful old historic structure Historic structure it needs of a million dollars plus work work, and I just thought I don't know I'm just asking What's a realistic way to achieve what you want to achieve? That's also economically grounding for the people of this community and we have we have you know in the Small amount that I know about demolition and construction, which is not zero, but it's not Significant is that no for this and and as we've looked at this issue It's this is the cheapest option that we have been able to come up with Demolition and reconstruction of another building, you know, maybe a metal-sided butler building not Eater than the winter, you know might come in cheaper, but beyond that kind of thing we're not we're not looking at anything that a community can actually use and But we are interested again in the economic and social viability of the East Valley What you know and to have a and and a conversation with a truly interested select board That would be a fantastic thing We would love to be able to have your Concern and commitment enough to sustain an ongoing conversation where we can brainstorm together So I put it. I put that to you for your consideration I think John asked the question which hasn't been And I think I'd like to express my perspective on it first But before that I'd like to say that this vision of a community center in East Randolph is a beautiful thing And it's a worthwhile thing and I deeply wish there was an easy way to get there. I really really do But it is and I and I remember we had a meeting at the East Randolph community center I'm not sure how many years ago it was now It was just two years ago. Yeah, I feel like it was longer It was it was July of about 22. We were just coming out of the pandemic. Yeah, okay I think we expressed our concerns about the cost pretty clearly at that meeting that this was An amount of money that was really really hard to see how we could possibly Come up with this kind of money as a town I thought I my recollection leaving that meeting was that I felt pretty clear that that was the message that that we sent and I think that it's that's still valid today that it's gonna be It's it's really hard to see how we're gonna raise millions of dollars for this for this building In spite of the fact that it is a beautiful vision and it would be an incredibly awesome thing to have given our fiscal constraints and our Priorities that we know we're gonna have going into the future. I Just don't know when we're ever gonna have the money to be able to do something like this And the fiscal constraints that you're talking about are gonna be there whether we raise the building and build something new Or renovate this one and we're still looking at a long-range timeline here If I'm understanding what you're saying You can't take on anything else right now Mm-hmm can't take in on anything else until like 2028 We it's worse than that. We can't take on anything big for a few more years And then once we can there are other projects that were that I'm telling you we're gonna be funding before we fund Yeah, I would have to be something that's important to this to the board It's not even just the board bed scene like we have roads right now with water Inceptic underneath them that have to be replaced. We were in the process of Going forward with some of these we have some large projects. We got two Garages in this town right now that both need to be replaced You know, we've got a lot of infrastructure that we're gonna be Trying to figure out how we handle that knowing that we've got until 2028 before we can ever bond Like we've got some serious challenges here and you'll have those challenges at 28 So we will be low on the list. No, they will. Yeah, so And that's not something We're happy So, thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for meeting with with with some with this I think we know the answer or the answer is no and for good reason. Yeah, it's just Sometimes dancing around an answer Does doesn't give you the clarity that is needed which is probably what occurred two years ago at the meeting in the hall Some sometimes a hard no is is what's needed. I'm hearing a hard no tonight That that is there's a wonderful pot of money out there that would not have looked so far. Yeah No, we haven't I'll watch for the leprechaun. Is it well and short by the way? Falls in you know Thank you. Yeah All right inter municipal energy coordinator proposal continued We got an extra hand out from the one that was in the packet so I'll send this around this came in today as well It's It's like it's a description of the I rec Project in the six or so towns that have had it in place for a few years now So my understanding of this position is for the most part It's going to be working on either town projects or other projects that would allow for benefits from an energy perspective, so whether it's funding that's out there to Change heat systems in town buildings or to do whatever and I'm really concerned that we potentially put $40,000 into a group fund Which with not a whole lot of ability to manage the time of that person. We're just Committing it and I think if we're looking at Bringing somebody on that is going to help us with grants and whatnot We should have our own person doing this and that should be an additional duty on that job. I I am feel much Better about us having the person and us managing the person and us controlling the outcomes Then I do about what I've heard so far about where this position would be and I Don't know about anybody else, but I have never been able to report to a committee To get my direction and thank God you love it reporting to a board But like if but that's a board in one town like a group of people from multiple towns trying to tell you what your Priorities are and everybody trying to get help for the same grant funding program and whatnot. That's chaos. I just I feel like if it's If we're going to focus on this then that money that 40,000 is much better spent on a person right here And if this is you know, we're looking at a position right now That's going to help with zoning and grant management and whatnot. I think that's where that job duty resides Definitely include that and make that work Oh I'm Jerry Ward and this is going to sound a little bit like these brand-off community whole things direct we I'll just remind the select board who was some you weren't not even here then is that a couple years ago There was a proposal to do exactly what you just talked about Just have our own position who was the energy coordinator and it was Didn't go anywhere partly because we didn't feel like it was a needed partly because it wasn't It was maybe too big of a financial commitment and partly because the town manager and COVID was overwhelmed That's not against you. That's just the reality that I recall is that we didn't want another person that you would have to oversee Okay, I'm it may have been Adolfo, sorry. Yeah, but I'm so both are reasonable viewpoints it does take some money and Oversight if it's a town employee, I still think that would be the ideal thing but I didn't I got the distinct impression that Randolph was not there and we were Advised to go with the shared project Model like two rivers out of Creechee then went ahead and did it We didn't get in on the first round now. We have a chance to get in on the second round and If you don't trust two rivers doing the oversight then the town needs to do it themselves So it's you can't have it both ways and yeah, I think the fairness drew a lot has changed And if you're not like I'm not I think I agree. I just want to explain to you like We've gone through a lot of change here in staffing and we've shaken duties and looked at how better to use the limited positions that we have and and where we need to beef up and where we don't need to beef up and One of the things we've just done is look at Like we have an economic development director, but he's also trying to manage those owning applications So how do you set right that out and in looking at labor hours? Versus what the duties are going to be there appears to be more time in this position That's going to take on zoning and grant management and so I think working with a group And doing that function of this which is also grants and and piecing it together Gets us back to what you guys originally wanted and back then and we didn't have we couldn't have We couldn't have taken this on two years ago huge Benefit what you would lose in that is energy expertise unless you found the most amazing person Hold that thought and you call me in a few weeks and let me know if we found the right candidate Has been advertised for a while so I Think I see where this is going and I just want to point out one thing that it's not Casting aspersions, but there's already been Up to 14 other towns that have been meeting for months most of the meetings John and I were not even there Trying to get to the point where they could present an actionable proposal by the end of this calendar year So it could be funded in 25 budget year Which means getting its proposals actionable by January 1st the town's gonna actually get them on the on the warnings and get to the budget and They've been looking at Randolph as kind of the leader and it would be an Opportunity for Randolph to show some leadership that I was feeling But somewhat proud that we were seeing the head in that direction and I'm not gonna be devastated with pull-out, but Um, there's just pointing out there's gonna be some repercussions in our image with some of the other towns who were counting on us So and that might be include with two rivers, too so Treaty raises a good point about Local control over the process and have having someone dedicated just to these issues in Randolph And taking on maybe other grant writing responsibilities as well. It just feels like I'm willing to let the other communities be disappointed I don't think we have the capacity to take on the leadership role for 20 plus other communities Oh, that's that's not no that wouldn't we would have been no we would be The biggest player in the pool right we would not have any more leadership really Then the other towns would be two rivers to be taking on the role So that wasn't clear last month. I was this sort of nebulous Well, no role in their package is exactly what two rivers role would be Peter Gregory outlined it very clearly. He'd be willing to be the one that would fire and hire and Do all the valuations and this is in the stuff we got today for today's meeting, right? It wasn't in the last month. It was in the packet It was in response to the six questions that we left the last meeting It's not in that document, but Before the document Ask a question It seems to me With with so I'm trying to get a sense of the board that with budget constraints being what they are and labor constraints that a A one of the as I understand it one of the reasons to have an energy coordinator is Because we need to save money on our buildings And our town use of energy that would be a net gain in in that effort. It's not altruism That's common sense B is we That sharing if under the responsible Supervisory ship not of a of a chaotic committee Luckily if two rivers is as good as their word and we know that organization, of course, everybody does Then would why wouldn't you go for it exactly? Well, if we're gonna have a position and we're gonna go through Energy efforts and grants right and we have other grants that we could apply for that We're not able to do now because we don't have the capacity Those have the ability to have some level some are capped at 5,000 10,000 whatever they are for managing them, but others you can get a percentage or whatever So if we have a potential for revenues to help offset that position and the more grants they go out and get the better That is why wouldn't we have the position here where they can focus on Randolph's goals versus a limited number of hours to do the work for us and Other grants to help us not only have work in the energy field, but in all these other fields that we need assistance with Where we can get revenue to help offset the position and have it benefit all the areas of the town that need the help Is this isn't the present job description that I saw posted for a grant writer, and that's not a c-shirt question Yeah, it is okay grant writer. No, no Well, we were talking about an energy coordinator For the from the T-rocks standpoint, but you're saying that this person is going to be covered by This activity will be covered by this new hire We will probably need to amend that job description to include some of this stuff, which will also match our preferred Canada I don't want to be around the bush. We got Close but not there. Okay, this will be resolved everybody could exercise patience full It will become clear so so that there it well is there in in this position a Beyond grant writing it seems as though energy coordination In the town would require some some focus on and current energy use patterns and some history of Of the of our infrastructure and how it performs Not just seeking grants So I'm what is that that does the I think what I Think what you got to do is trust us that we got this one This is the best approach to it and once we can finish and have it official and we announce it You'll be like yes, but just that'd be great. Thank you pause for a little bit and Very just one more comment chair since this came in late today this I write project summary This is essentially what as I understand it Jeff growl has been doing for the other six or seven towns that are already the I rec one and I found it pretty impressive to look at what the cost savings are Admittedly a lot of this is the low line low line fruit that's been plucked and it won't be Looking this good every year, but this is impressive. This is a magnificent return on investment. I think It's a million dollars over and I think if you could steer this new position Towards these kind of projects that will be well-rewarded And it's what I've been looking for with this push to get an energy coordinator for a couple years Having having that person at our disposal answering only to us This gives us a real template for what they can be well, but that's just the energy side, right? Yeah, so now take their time If they're doing it for multiple towns now, they're just doing Randolph and doing other Types of efforts in that round to like that multiplies that We'll check with you in a couple weeks make sure you agree We'll be back All right Norwich solar technologies That's me and Jim Merriam of Norwich solar And I will say one quick plug before that. I was also the director of efficiency Vermont And if you're looking for services that are free and guided I would definitely have your future energy Coordinated which I'm sure you're already doing work hand-in-glove with an energy cool energy consultant efficiency Vermont Source of rebates and tier three funds from the utilities Well said, thank you. So on to today's matter. So I'm here as the applicant for Randolph Davis solar who received a request from the public utilities commission to Which should be in your packet to very specifically Complete the evidentiary record for the project which is to have the town select board and town planning commission Document that they have seen a Drawing in a survey that shows that we will not be installing solar panels on slopes greater than 25% again the Order should have been in the packet the very last end at the very short request though Condition it wanted satisfied was a letter from the town our DS exhibit to I believe And in it it just basically Demonstred we have to demonstrate to you prior to construction that we've shown you a drawing That's we're not installing solar on slopes greater than 25% So I've also provided a letter for convenience that is very short and sweet that basically says that the town board boards have seen the survey and We have satisfied the requirements of The town original request which was to see a survey prior to installation I Check with the folks at the PUC we put a letter on town letter had meets exactly what they're after Yeah, well, we appreciate that help to help us. I think it's we're at the spot where we want to make sure we're Locked into what we need to be locked into If I get interject the order is not very long enough a particular piece and it's pretty short and that's what it's looking for So the the survey that was completed was done after Everybody was questioning the snow. No, we the survey Documented you have a state of February February of 2022. Yeah, what the evidentiary record does not have is that? In the subsequent meetings where the preferred letter was upheld We did not document or have documentation that we completed the requirements of you saw That that survey so even though we relied on the fact that even though the preferred letter was held and you didn't rescind it as The course of why this was met The PUC because this has gone for a long time with a lot of intervention just wants to clean up the record to make sure that that condition was met and That you've seen the drawing or the survey which are the panels not on Yeah, just to clarify. This is the one we're talking about. Yeah. That was the one that was provided exhibit RDS MS-2a revised to 9 2022 that's And this was in the timeframe when we were Talking in this letter that this the request from the town came out. And so There's a key down in the bottom. You had this this is in the packets for anybody. Yeah, so the yellow area of the screen share is the Is the slope's greater than 25% Are the black outlines that are hard difficult to see there for those work around the shaded area and The but that survey right there that advises they won't be built on the 25 percent slope is done by a Engineer correct or a surveyor. Yes, exactly I see scroll over to the right-hand side. You can see that it's a horizons engineering This is part of the evidentiary. This is this is part of the already record at the PUC as well So the hearing order page 32 of that we're talking about section 8 under order and it's number 2 So this is the Site plan we're being asked to verify Satisfies the concerns in the letter that's in your packets that sunny wrote when he was playing a commission chair in December of 2021 And that letter said that slopes greater than 25 percent were essentially off Limits for Panel construction installation this line looks awfully close right here. These there is clearance that can't be seen from the map Correct. I think that there may be a little bit of slight overhang there, but it's not installed in that area Overhang meaning the side of a panel is headed over the slope. Maybe I can't quite see from that one right that yeah There's nothing in stalled in that 25 percent So this is this this is the spot on time up right here Where there's a couple that It looks like they do based on this yeah, this one's type. It doesn't look too. Oh, yeah Yeah, there's this one Sort of a great grayish green area Yeah So overhang being nothing is This would be post driven and the post would not be in that area the post would be All in the gray area some back out for you. Do we know if the Time for you to make a comment. Yeah. Yeah, just to let us get our head around the site plan and what we're actually being asked to do What they said was you couldn't Know you couldn't do any construction any earth work within that 25 slow Yes, I remember correctly So those are just there's no earth work because the post is on the top, but then the slope Has just a panel hanging out over it Correct Okay This is another thing that we've encountered here that I've not been asked Okay So we have a comment in the back my name is Michael binder and I'd like to point out a few things first of all in the letter that you're asked to confirm it's In your packet exhibit RDS MS-14 It's the letter that sonny hole sent to Norbert solar technologies stating That they accepted Norbert solar's promise that they would rearrange the panels and of course the public utilities Commission Says that's not enough. You actually have to see that was done But what it says in that letter is that we further that's the planning Commission further Request to see your final solar rate plot plan prior to construction and that's not what's up there There have been six Site plans at the PUC on this project and that's number three out of six now They're not showing you four five and six and there is something that I know about and the PUC knows about That they don't want you to see and that's why they're not showing you the final plan So I would say at this point what you should do And I'm prepared to go through and explain the evidence that the PUC has seen that this Pannels actually are on slopes greater than 25% and that this is a contrived slope layer made from a defective survey and I have the evidence for it We have the data from the survey The broad data and I have an ounce of it But what I would suggest at this point is that you defer this decision To the next meeting when they can show you the actual sixth site plan the final site plan Which is what the PUC wants you to verify and meanwhile? The normal solar has to go to the planning commission also To get permission in this case the planning commission is not advisory to the select board each has their own separate and equal voice and The first ice letters have to be unanimous among the planning commission the select board and the regional planning commission so in any case What I would suggest is that you let this go to the planning commission first where perhaps their agenda would be as crowded as this agenda is tonight and let them Pass judgment and then after they do that if they judge that they want to affirm the Letters that would come back to you to do the same if they do not affirm the letters You will have avoided having to deal with this at all because like I said the PUC wants us to be from individual each Commission and board has its own voice, but in any case This is not the final site plan that was submitted to the PUC It's a third out of six and therefore It does not meet the criteria in this letter of them bringing back and showing you the final site plan So and if you want to go forward with a vote, I'd be happy to Try to present the evidence as best I can that the PUC has seen that shows that the panels are in fact Still on slopes greater than 25 percent throughout Not just a little bit of overhang there But throughout furthermore to say that there's no earth work in that yellow area is incorrect also since they are planning to develop that area by stomping it grading it and So forth on very steep slopes The road itself is on great 39 percent slopes. That's not been rebutted by Norbert solar in fact, their engineer has admitted it in his testimony and As you know the Randolph Zoning here prohibits development on any natural slopes over 30 percent and yet they're developing a road that does not exist now On 39 percent slopes. So that's not exactly the question You're asked to look at a the arrangement of panels here, but That's part of what's on the other site plans that they have not shown you So That would be my advice is that you let this go to the planning commission And I will present evidence to them Showing that those panels are on greater than 25 percent slopes and we'll do it with our most recent site plan rather than this third out of six Thank you. So the third out of six was the drawing that was at the time when The letter came out and it's consistent with that Thank you I think if you read the order above the request for the order, there's a pathway for Landowners adjacent to adjudicate their grievances, which the PUC has clearly pointed out is within the PUC The request from the board here is very specific I can provide the last version from Horizons an independent third-party engineering firm that shows that the panels will not be installed on 25 percent slopes. That's easy This was the one that was consistent with the time of when the letter came out and the PUC was looking to complete the evidentiary record We can provide six and we can provide three because I feel like if we provide six the question and Statement people this was not the one that was at the time when the letter came out from the town We can provide both of those to you All I'm trying to do is meet The request of the public utilities court commission, which is ask the applicant to come and simply show you the drawing Independent third-party survey drawing that has not been discredited by the public utilities commission if the drawing is incorrect That can be taken up with the public utilities commission in the manner that they have expressed in the order It should be done I This has been a long case where I feel like the Normal process has been subverted and I'm just trying to limit your time and exposure on this And I'm trying to comply with what the public utilities commission has asked us to do I think now hang on In the order If I'm reading it correctly, and this is maybe where the new board member will be helpful It gives you 90 days to file evidence Demonstrating that Randolph's planning commission and select board have determined that the condition stated in that letter has been satisfied and And then it does say that any objection or request for a hearing to contest the evidence filed Pursuant to that paragraph, but the thing must be filed within 14 days, which would Would mean if anybody doesn't agree with what you presented to us and with the but our DMS 14 Is Sonny's letter so It's Sonny's letter It's it it puts an interesting twist to it because what he says is That you'll submit the The survey before it goes to construction correct Is that what the intent is it's not it says the final seller right stop please Yes, it Right before it goes to construction, so it's a bit of a circular argument there You can't go to construction without a without their permit and What basically what they were Not sure why the planning commission would have asked to see the final Construction drawing that came out of the PUC And like I'm not sure he did they asked for it which is fine, but that's just submit it to us Like that's a complete our file or because they have no authority after that point So it feels like what they're asking us to do is to confirm That a condition has been met that can't be met until you have their permit It at the time it that's why we put this drawing in here at the time it was to show The final depending on how you want to look at final that was the final drawing at that point at the time Sonny wrote his letter right and what has changed And maybe branding him pop on in this but what has changed is there is a vernal pool at the top that we've moved back panels from So I'm speaking pop on Brendan. That's not on your plan. I Understand Yeah, so good. Let me just see if I can sort of find one on the question between three and six What's different? Yeah So in the at the very top Where up here Great, yes, correct. There is a vernal pool that is off the parcel, but a buffer from that or a pool It has forced a relocation of the Northernmost row of panels On the kind of left of the two rows of panels there you go. So what you would see on the next Version of the drawing is of a Buffer from that parol pool and the panels outside of that buffer Just they thank you for listening the one thing I might say it's just Condition that has to be met is the condition that at the time Sonny as the chair Wrote in his letter and that's the that's the condition that We met by providing this site plan so in response to his letter we provided this site plan with the Engineer slope data there were following site plans In response to other requests. So this is the site plan in response to Sonny's condition. And so though the The request from the PC is explicitly was did the applicant meet the condition that letter and if so did Did you Did you see the information that was provided? So that's this information. That's why this version is provided This is the version That was provided at the time to meet the condition in the letter And but site plan 6 still meets the condition of the letter With regards to the slopes so the subsequent drawings all show both slope data as well as Pannels not on slopes over 25% So If for instance the technology allowed and you're able to zoom in You know to a very detail level there is not an overhang here Just a matter of presenting it. So Brendan if we if our letter back to them is very specific of This exact exhibit was provided to the town this meets the intent of Sonny's According to this exhibit and what we've seen from the survey completed by this company There's no there's no panels installed on the 25 percent grade although some may hang over onto that area I mean I think that's correct and I think on a technical point even this plan does not show any overhang If you're if the zoom function was you know detailed enough, I would confirm that to I have been able to zoom in and Actually looks different when you it does look different Alyssa So Alyssa in your experience In your prior life Is this normal for them to come back to a slack board and ask us to Send a letter like this I Am not familiar with it. No I don't think that this is normal. I think it's a reasonable request for A an application that has now been in process for over two years and has a quite voluminous record And so even all the back and forth. I think that this is Well, not normal It is a reasonable request for the Public Utilities Commission just for the clarity the applicant Says that this condition is met can the town confirm that the condition was met And I think that public utilities mission was explicit They were trying to complete the evidentiary record because it has been a contentious case I don't think they they can allow anything to be left open Yep But I it feels like Through the PUC process this changed some after One that's sunny. So anything we were to send up to them. I'd want to be very specific about this is the site plan We're looking at this is You know, could I make a suggestion that we can send? Six the last version as well so that you can I mean you can send it to us, but I think this is the one we're gonna rely on This is the one yes, I mean you can explicitly ask that Do you do Do you anticipate that they might ask us to weigh in on six to No I don't think they have My concern is this is the site plan we're being presented tonight yes to give our opinion on and we have We have a licensed surveyor Because they have to be to produce to produce these that's telling us there's no construction on a 25% slope according to their plan And that's what we have to rely on. I mean, I'm not a surveyor. I don't feel like I can second This is and this is a conversation we had previously and basically they're just asking us Did you really have that conversation in essence and can you just confirm that what you what you're what the applicant is telling us You said then is really what you said and you and you still it's it's it's a slightly different board Right, it's not exact. It's not the same people right select board. Yeah, right? So so we're basically reconfirming our previous decision which said We see that there's no panels being placed on slopes greater than 25% so this counts as a preferred site It meets the conditions Yes if you sent Site plan six site plan six is the final solar array plot plan prior to construction It's the final plan that is available right now So until you're permitted and ready to go to construction You can't fully satisfy But this is as close. I'm just trying to figure out how to It just seems Very much a PUC procedural issue It's they're just coming back to us to make sure that what They think we're sad we said that we really did say but and not yes, I agree with you and I understand where the Version six is coming from but the sunny's letter doesn't request version six It says prior to going to construction Prior to going to construction is after the PUC gets done I got it right here. I just read It's the Mike and you know my I don't want to take version six because that wasn't part of our decision-making Our decision making is off this version what the PUC did with versions four five and six is after us So to me That's giving us new information and asking us to make a decision based on something new Which I'm not comfortable doing May I read the letter Michael we have it Says we further request to see your final solar array block prior to construction Prior to construction final and not only that this is not the site plan that Sony ever saw so he saw the first site plan and Then requested that they make changes which resulted in the second site plan And this is the third and there's been a fourth fifth and sixth now Sony only saw the first one and he requested that they see the final one prior to construction You have not seen the final one prior to construction. We're not at construction Michael We're at the PUC and the at the PUC four or five and six were created not when the town was involved This is when the town was involved with this one either. This is after the town vote This was released in February The December 2021 is when Sonny did his illegal meeting on December 14th Actually two years ago today, okay, and the only site plan was the first one and they objected to it because the first one Showed Okay, whoa, when did the select word vote on the first The letter I came up was June of 21 and then there was some action We revisited around this time So it was in December that the planning commission was involved So it had to be after December when the town when the select board was involved. The select board was involved in January and February Both meetings, but the board is talking right now, please Trini, I feel like your idea makes sense to Just make the letter clear that this is the version we saw Well, I think it it sets the parameters around what we're making our decision based on, you know, we're Responding to their request that we've got this. We've got it from a licensed surveyor You know from the information provided to us on this version it meets the intent if they went on You know, does that mean Version six eventually has to come back and be given to the planning commission. I mean, yes, yeah, I Guess that's probably part of Sonny's letter, but they don't have any authority. That's not the pieces asking us No, it isn't asking us for This hundred percent yep Yep, and I think the letter if the letter is specific on what plan we're looking at and what we're I mean it seemed Is it within you might know this better than? The rest of us, but is it within the PUC's purview to say we want version six to go back For a final review, I don't know, but doesn't seem that that's what they're asking They're free to ask that if they want Is this what we saw in response to Sunday for class It seems that it is so long as long as we're explicit in that language as treaty suggests We should I think I I think that's the best way to handle this like this is not normal for them to come back and And say are you sure you're sure? But well, I mean I you know putting myself in their shoes Ourselves in their shoes as Larry suggested they're just trying to Fill the evidentiary well and attach this rate to the letter Send the letter up attach this to the letter and be like this is the version we looked at This is what was provided to the select board to evaluate and And it meets our criteria for preferred states. Yeah, I mean if there's another version that can be contested at their level I think like may I speak fun? Yeah, it has those other versions have been contested at the PC And the reason the PC has sent this back is because of the overwhelming evidence that in the final plan the panels are still on greater than 25 percent slopes And I would be glad to present that evidence tonight as far as you're saying that the PUC wants you to evaluate this That's not correct. This was sent to you by Norse solar technology and this is what they want you to Evaluate tonight in reality sonny's the PUC order wants you to confirm that the conditions in sonny's letter have been met The conditions in sonny's letter were when he wrote this letter They'd only seen the original plan and he said we want to see the final plan that you finally have that gets approved by the PUC Before you start construction and that is not what they've shown you tonight Okay, they've shown you number three and the commission has sent them back to you to find out if the Conditions in this letter are you know have been fulfilled what it says in this letter first of all is that the slope of the panels are on Less than 25 percent slopes that I can demonstrate they are not and then it also says that you were supposed to Evaluate that on the final site plan sonny wants the site final site plan That's comes to the PUC to come back here And be evaluated because that's where you're going to get to see the evidence that these panels are not on less than 25 percent slopes, so If if you want to make some sort of statement that well, this is what we saw man, and we that's all we still see now I don't think that's going to satisfy the public utilities commission They're sending this back because they know that the panels are on greater than 25 percent slopes And that's why they're sending it back. Are you sure you haven't seen everything you only saw you know these these early drafts I think we can just be very specific in in our letter right we can say According to the survey that we have seen the survey which clearly indicates Well, we can know what it is that those that the slopes are less than 25 percent in that we've seen the survey and the survey data Conforms with our idea of what the preferred sites are and if the survey data is wrong If they did something wrong then that's a whole other issue We're not affirming whether the survey is done properly or not All we would be affirming is that we have seen the survey and that the survey that we have seen indicates that This parcel conforms with our preferred sites Well, and I think we can not only mention what it is we can attach it to it I get the PUC wanted us to say if if the PUC said to us Evaluate version six they should have included it Right like that's after it left us right and they don't say to us We don't think they're being accurate that there's no way this is on 25 percent that appears to me something They would have questioned of them during the process if I could speak a licensed surveyor falsifying information for the point of us getting a preferred site letter Was shut that business down and that would be a paramount point importance to the public utilities commission and professional boards Can't imagine you paid them enough to shut their business down But My preference on this is to just write that letter and be very specific You're contending that This request is coming through Norwich solar and not directly from the Absolutely the order from the PUC asked them to come back to you and see if the Conditions in this letter that sunny whole road have been satisfied. Okay hearing orders this condition Condition the one condition of a of a site plan that shows not no construction on a 25 percent slope is I think we've we've really laid to rest this idea that we need to see the final construction like that's really not what we can do because There yet sort of a chicken or the egg kind of thing we can't Do one that requires the other and go back in time So we just the condition it seems really clear to me that the intent is that the condition is Slopes greater than 25 percent. We're not going to be putting solar panels on those steep slopes May I present the evidence that the PUC has seen that shows that these panels are on greater than 25 percent slopes I don't think that's not our ours Like that's their view that I mean now you're gonna we would need the other The surveyor here to counter what's being said and are you a surveyor? I worked as a surveyor. I'm not licensed Yeah, so I mean now you're on an expert versus expert. That's the I was just by the PUC expert on this thing And that's why they accepted my That showing that this is wrong That's why they come back to you because they know that you put a condition that these Pounds must be on less than 20 percent slopes and they don't want to give a CPG out and find out afterwards that the conditions were not met That's why they want you to look at the final plan and see where those panels are The panels aren't even arranged in the final plan as you see there because like you said They found two wetlands that they overlooked the first time and had to rearrange the panels again But we're not we're not judging the final plan We're judging this plan and this is the plan We're gonna attach to our letter and this is the plan We're gonna tell them that we look at this and this is the one that did it and that they used a license surveyor I am not able to tell whether you or their surveyor are the right party I'm you want to talk railroads and airports and farming I can do it with you all day long But I am not a surveyor and I don't know any of us have the technical skills to say you're right Or they're right well We have to rely on is this is a licensed surveyor that stamp this plan and it's his if it's wrong Then you should take it up with the folks that first of all, that's not a licensed surveyor plan Okay, a surveyor you know plan would look a lot different than that This is a site plan for construction at the PUC and secondly That yellow stuff you see on there is on the succeeding plans also along with other data that shows That the panels are not correctly situated I think if you read the what the Commission has asked they've told Norbert solar to go back to the town and see if the conditions in some these letter have been met the condition Conditions, but the condition is first of all that the panels be not on 25% slopes or greater and that that the Norbert solar come back to the town with their final plan so that they can see it And this is not the final plan and it says final plan But that's a different condition Michael We're gonna disagree on that one that we won't have that until they go to construction and they're not going to construction They're in the PUC process right now that plan could change again We're not going there because that one can't be met They wouldn't have asked us to confirm it's been met when it can't be met The issue is over the 25% slope and right now This is what we have to react to and if we attach this plan to it when we send it up to the PUC and we State that it was done by a firm and all these different things that we relied on to make that decision That's the best we can do the reason that this is up in front of you to decide is because that's what Norbert solar Decided to offer you to look at the U.C. He's gonna see that's what we made our decision on To it and say whoa this is so different from we actually want the town to look at version 6 and tells what they think of that They'll send it back to us again Do we need a motion to authorize the drafting Authorized forever to draft a letter subject to the conditions that you have Yep We have a motion and a second on the table all those in favor hi hi Opposed Moved the letter will be drafted and the board will have a chance to comment on it and Then it'll come out. It'll go to the PUC and be copied to both you I Think their order said if you didn't agree with it There would be 14 days to file something after it was filed Yeah, well, I doubt that you didn't do satisfy the condition in the letter. You can you can that's your right Thank you All right, next up is a preliminary discussion on local option taxes At one point I was gonna try to ride you with a pulse of pathway and an estimated yield And step back and see where you wanted to be first Where we went into that so we had sort of two separate pieces to this One is just the general policy conversation a little option taxes. I think everybody knows what they are It's the 1% surcharge. We gross 70% of that state takes the other 30% We see some of it back as pilot payments. They use it to pay their property tax basically And then there's an administrative charge that's Applied from the local share for processing this by the by the state through the department taxes I gave you a conservative estimate between two and a half five percent of whatever that gross Tax shield would be right closer to two and a half What it is how it shakes out what it depends on we'd model it based on I guess there are three different times to file And so we essentially would split those into thirds in terms of each amount Until we were up and running you wouldn't know sort of what that trajectory is but it can Alter what that administrative fee comes out to be based on how people file people being the those Running operations that are subject. I have to collect the tax and then remit it to the state the Thorny your question one of the more mechanical question for us is how do you get there? We're not one of the 14 or so municipalities That was authorized post act 60 to do this So for us, this is a charter based process charter based approval It's laid out there. We've talked about it before the articles of merger. I get one police committee meeting I described it as a platypus Because it's a mammal that functions not like a mammal at times too And really because it's referred to as a charter it functions a little bit as a charter and we talk about the police district But it's not listed with the municipal charters in the title 24 appendix Which is an indication to me at least that it's not considered a Mammal like the other mammals and you know the poor platypus kind of thing, but We'd need to settle that question because the adoption process a little different than the amendment process The amendment would be looking for a discrete section to throw in the adoption process now We've got a right sort of a whole charter that meets those qualifications there's a Best case it best case scenario. That's a year If we decided we wanted to go down that road, we would just figure that all out Right, it's not gonna really influence whether we decide like this is a good idea or not a good idea It's really just gonna be like, okay, we'd like to do this How do we actually make it happen if we don't want to do it then it's completely Yeah, just provide the whole road map given kind of like here's some of the hurdles We're gonna face like and I think first we're gonna end up having to figure out that whole thing anyway Yeah, like is it a merger document only is it a charter? Is it a quality like what is the beast that we're operating under because it's coming Like we're gonna deal with it now under the police Issue in that discussion We're it's gonna come up in local options and we do have a resident who's come forward and asked for non-citizen voting so all of those are charter changes in towns that have a charter We have this Funky thing going there. So like we're gonna need to get legal counsel to tell us What is this beast and what is it because we've got a variety of issues that? It's it's gonna play a role in the process, but you're right whether we do it or don't do it Isn't that isn't part of that discussion It's how do we do it that it becomes in the timeline, right? Like if we got to write a full charter and get it adopted and then go to the legislature and get them to Take it on and all that that's all of my longer process. So it's kind of it plays into that timeline piece also so so the Decision before us tonight is whether to just continue exploring this further. Yeah I mean we can model some of the pieces out the expected deal There aren't any restrictions on the uses of the funds other than the restrictions you have on public funds anyway so we can't use them to buy influence basically Do the legal things? But parties for the select board, it's no That actually might still be legal enough so you can have yourself a heck of a Think we're really this is really just about like just starting a conversation like why might we want to do such a thing? Pros and cons, right? What does it look like one of the impacts whatever? What would be you well, you know, what's the money for? Yeah, and towns have used it for everything from general fund revenue sources to I think St. Albans town uses it for a very specific Purpose St. Albans city as well was referenced as one that uses it for a specific police related purpose Others have tied it to capital funds and just have goose capital funds Anyway, so there's there's kind of a broad sense of the usage some places have all of them that are enabled to rooms meals Alcohol and general sales cannabis has broken out as a separate data point But as I've always understood it if we levy did it's essentially a general sales tax It just gets tacked on to the 10 or 11 whatever the percent excise taxes now on that product And so some Levy a few of them some levy others. So if you're And I made its individual stuff. So for us we'd have to determine is there is it all of them? Is there some of them is what is there an appropriate mix? Based on geographic location based on community profile Woodstock. I think what does it all to their economic development? And do they do the sales or they just rooms and meals and now all rooms and meals and Not yeah, so they're hitting The Significance yeah, $500,000 a year. I think I wonder stills in the same boat We're they and they use it entirely for economic development and marketing and tourism marketing initiatives And then they give about a hundred and eighty five two hundred thousand dollars in grants a year To community organizations and individuals, but all with an economic development And how is it now they're doing housing initiatives, too, and they're they're layering that workforce housing developments I'll see us getting 500,000 a year. I don't see us getting 500,000 a year out of this It's hard to calculate restrictions on where we Allocate now it's not unless we put them interesting at the stake is 30% But then they tack on another two and a half to five. Why don't they just say we get 25% and be done with it? I I think I wonder if some of that's tied to there was it for years a general hesitation out of that on the house side in the Ways and Means Committee on how broad what should be the mechanism? You know who's taxing authority enough fit into roles and responsibilities. It's what tended to be Let's make it keep it charter base because for years the league has been asking for Just let everybody do it by vote, you know generally enable it As opposed to making it a charter based provision Because yeah, they're gonna have to do something the more we start digging into these things where there's these mandates and no way to fund them That's you know, you can't just keep Tacking it onto the property tax that's getting it's I think we did this the last budget I figured exactly what the percentage was but property taxes are 80 plus percent of our revenue Portfolio when you look at it like that I think if I'm remembering right I remember I went to a conference in my league days and One of the folks from Oklahoma handed out a flyer. They had used in their advocacy efforts that just sort of showed They were trying to make the case for more Flexibility and revenue sources and they handed this thing out was a dollar bill and I had different color coded sections I'm looking at this thing and there's like 12 different revenue like 15 and not we're not talking about like dog licensing fees and they're really small Every kind of text like it was crazy how many choices they had and they're saying well these aren't enough choices for us I'm looking at this thing going Heck if we had half of these You know what it opens up in terms of what every community can decide to do or not do But for now this is when you're talking got this is what we got its property taxes some fees But they're never going to be any bigger than what they are really this So in the art of the possible this is What level of data can the tax department share with the town when they're doing this analysis can they show us We can go and grab everything from multiple They put their data up by calendar and fiscal year So we go up and grab it for whatever unit we want and then see by category what those sales are and actually come up with a pretty good approximation of what 70% would be and Then I'd have to reach back out to the folks there when I was in Waittsfield They provided me with a way to estimate the administrative cost It was basically take the number of filers per category and split them into thirds And then I forget there was a piece to it that I can't remember That's you apply, you know the factor you multiply by But they've got a way that they've recommended that and it's a total approximation that least gets us started on That piece give us some idea. I mean if we're chasing 10 grand, it's probably not worth it if we're chasing Something much bigger the wrinkle is for some reason we have a category that has less than Ten I think it was for example in certain categories in which case they don't provide the data for privacy concern Because you might be able to Figure out who reported what? This was the I don't just silly. This is a couple years ago. So in that at Mad River Valley example faced in Which just has Mad River Glen? Mount Ellen basically on that half the sugar, which doesn't have the volume though There were certain data types where they were just shown as zero But you know that there's revenue So there might be some gaps and I don't know if we can get that from them or not So here's a that makes sense Yeah, I'm wondering so like when you actually get the tax revenue the total like let's say you whether you you actually Have this process in your town and you get the total amount of money that is raised You know that number like you know how much money was raised by whichever of the Taxes you have so Can't can we get projected data that would give us those same numbers because if those numbers don't compromise Privacy or even if they do like they're out there in the public like so why shouldn't potential numbers also be Possible just seems like we ought to be able to get The total it just though like they might not you know They might be able to break it down in certain categories, but then for the ones where it's too small They just lump them all together add it to the to the other one that we know of and just give us one final Number just like they would if we actually instituted it and we got the taxes. We know that same number We have to request that separately that'd be the question because the way the data is available now is by those categories I'm saying can we ask them so we can make a more informed judgment exactly not exactly but Approximately how much money we'd really be talking about because it seems like some of those small categories We might have you know a particular business, which is generating quite a bit of you know revenue But they're like but they're not that many of them So we'd make a difference in terms of Well this time that we'll just yeah, and there's some that we might yeah that we might expect But we won't have data for it all and you know what some communities are starting to look at is Folding Airbnb's into Of which we have several that I'm aware this quote. No, it's quite a few So so that's the kind of information I think we really would like to see but just to get back to like Like so like why am I we want to do this? I think one of the reasons is that well We're identified lots of places where we want to spend money on really good things and we don't have the money and one of the really Nice aspects of at least the room rooms and meals tax is that the money is going to come from Significantly from people who are not our citizens, right? So we're going to ask people who make use of our services We're passing through to pay for a little tiny piece a little tiny piece of what of what they're experiencing Mm-hmm, and I think that's fair it defer diversifies our revenue like Trevor was saying which is also never a bad thing and Especially for those taxes Most of the money that is spent locally on those are for things which are more in the You can make an argument that it's not going to be completely And I really do get that but a big chunk of it is going to be so more sort of on the sort of Non-essentials right like we're not we don't force anybody to spend the night in a hotel We're not going to we don't force anybody no one needs to go out to eat and things like that so you know It feels like if we're going to have a tax which seems fair and which doesn't impact Lower income folks that at least that feels like a reasonable place to start saying what would that really look like? I think you're gonna be careful though on the other side of what is the impact of it Absolutely, so just saying that's where that's right. It's where I get that's where the positive side of it That's where the discussion. It's the that's what prompts the discussion Yeah, and should we be careful should we do a lot more due diligence? So we really know what we're getting into Yeah, yeah, absolutely Yeah, I think you've got some businesses that are teetering right now and if you lose enough customers and Yeah That's a that's a whole other story. Yeah Yeah, if I could jump in here guys. Hi everybody. Hey Stephanie. Hi Yeah, so I have already kind of spoken my Opinion to some of you guys about this, but as a small business owner of something I think you guys are kind of leaning against retail right now But the smaller retail businesses in town are also competing against all the online people We're already cheaper with free shipping I would just I Just think we should be a little careful about the impact of what it would do to our businesses It might seem small, but it could actually maybe have a huge impact on what we are doing and like training kind of said a lot of us are teetering and so we're getting by but It wouldn't take much to push some of these businesses over the edge for sure Yeah, just some thoughts, you know, we should do Stephanie is we should get the legislators to pass a bill that sets it up So if your zip code I don't know because we want the visitors I wasn't thinking if your zip code they goes by zip code now, right? So when you go to Amazon and you buy something on Amazon you pay your Vermont tax The option tax should be on there if it's being shipped to You know a zip code that's got a local option tax It should be 7% instead of 6% Right Just thinking like you really want to protect the local business another piece that I think would be interesting to know more about would be If if we were to You know because what I would really like to see is for as if we were to go down this path What would be for this money to take the place of not to not just add not to add additional resources so much as much as it would be to Help us pay for things that we need to pay for that we're going to pay for and so what would be The impact on property taxes if we got this money like with wood Businesses that are paying property taxes would they then pay Less property taxes that would take off You know some of the you know you gain some here and you lose some there kind of thing like what does that look like? And that's probably complicated and maybe it doesn't amount to anything But it would be part of the puzzle to know like what does that balance look like could be whether you decide to supplement or supplant In terms of how you use the funds Exactly and then one of the things that we'll have to try to if we really get into the conversation We'll want to try to figure out and be thoughtful about ways to mitigate the unexpected impacts that we have Unfortunate recent history with in place of the local option taxes. So pandemic and floods especially if you're doing I Mean if you're doing any of them and they hit in certain places And so making sure they were always mindful of Insulation to so that ties into that supplement versus a plan So that we don't suddenly find ourselves, right? That's that would be an argument for supplanting right instead to to say or some we're not gonna raise as much money in property tax because we're raising it through the local option tax instead and so that way if you had a Catastrophe which affected the local option tax Then you couldn't say well, we just need to raise property taxes But we would have if we didn't have the local option tax We would have had to have raised them anyway to do these things that we have to do Right, is it my hearing me correctly? Maybe I think the appeal is that you set it up So that maybe the proceeds go into say your capital reserves. So then if your revenues bottom out Theoretically you should have some sort of savings. Sure built up. That's no that's a great idea So to keep going and then so we could go into a capital reserve that In some sense would have otherwise been paid for through property taxes, but you wouldn't necessarily but it might be that instead of saying Well this year we need to raise this much money because nap because otherwise we have to cut a whole department or do something That we really don't want to do instead. We could say We're not gonna put as much money into this particular capital fund this year where we're gonna delay a project It's a layer project, but it's not but it's not gonna Have the kind of it's not gonna make a cut in service, for example The worst choice might be to tie it directly to debt service payments, especially if they're larger because we got to pay that when it comes to No matter what? No, that would be some have done it, but that would be the one does know the idea of Dedicating this to if we were to do it to dedicate it to a capital reserve That that makes a lot of sense and then the capital reserve just goes up or down by More or less than we think it's going to and we have this already right when we have Sometimes we have surpluses that go into a capital reserve and sometimes they're big and sometimes they're not existent And that's how we deal that we just take that money We just throw it into the capital reserve. I think before we get to the conversation on what we do with the money We got to figure out if we're gonna even do it And I put a lot of legwork part of whether it what we're gonna do with it informs whether it's worth doing All right, so I think we do need to think about Where it's gonna how we would make use of those funds if we had it and what that would look like I think it's all part of the Part of the picture that we need to think about it's definitely part of the picture, but like again Are we talking $10,000? Are we talking? $30,000 are we talking? I think that's step one like is even all this time Absolutely, how much money are we talking about we need to know that that's we need to know that first Is it even worth it so we can put in our numbers and Calculate out so we can we can probably come up with yield fairly quick. It's just filling in a couple of the holes There was one category I forget which where there was nothing reported, but that we know we have businesses Just to kind of chime in with that idea literary of it would cut back on property taxes Maybe a lot of us lease our buildings. So yeah, our landlords are the ones that would be paying that and I know you want it. It won't matter. Yeah, I Yes, no, I I understand that and I should have mentioned it as as I was talking about I guess you're completely right We would just it would be one of those things that would be Great if we had data about what that would look like and maybe we just can't get it Maybe that's just something we're not going to be able to wrap our minds around and we won't be able to Use that as a justification or otherwise Thank you for pointing that out. Oh, yeah, and there might be a way that we can just talk I mean, I know how much I pay my retail taxes every year for my business And so we might even be able to get a general idea just from talking to businesses of you know, if we can't get the data Just directly getting it from the businesses and just talking to them about how they would feel about all this too Yeah, oh, it'll be quite a process to get to it. There's a like an education portion and outreach and All kinds of good stuff, but step one is to figure out I think what is it? What are we chasing? So I do the yield estimates and then I gotta be honest with you. I want that I want to plow it from his question answered That one's really starting to bow me Send it to the lawyer. What sounds like a good good thing to do either way Yeah, we decided about local options taxes because we're gonna be in the other question one way or the other Yeah, it would be nice to sort of have that Yeah, what is it for for future? Yeah, future whatever we decide, okay Any other thoughts on that one? Don't want that one Landowner access agreement with Ridgeline. We sent this around here earlier. There was a suggested language change We heard back from the conservation commission members. They're okay with it Everybody's okay with it. It basically takes language in section To see and makes it a little more flexible So this is the may temporarily close off trails or parts of trails For reasonable and necessary public purposes the prior version limited it more or less to safety and emergency measures The water supply projects a good example of where there might be other stuff It's hard to see with like say word where we're gonna run into the other stuff, but It's nice to have that flexibility on our land and not have to Similar to the conservation easement on Ellis where we had to threaten to condemn our own property To the extent we can avoid that and so this would put in place a landowner agreement that we haven't had before Clarifies roles responsibilities makes things really clear. It's a good practice. These are with good partners and that it's Ridgeline and The Vermont mountain bike Association So plenty of experience from both with these types of things and we get to serve as a nice little model as they build out These types of agreements as well And it helps tie into a grant that Bimbo wants to go for on behalf of Ridgeline We'll do some trail improvement work from say word pretty much exclusively, right? Morgan's been hanging out for is in her dual hats here. Yeah, so this was supposed to be on the last Months agenda, but that was even longer than this tonight But that grant application is due tomorrow and in some change of guards We found that a lot of these landowner access agreements were members formalized in the Randolph networks So this is something we do across the board with all of our private and public landowner partners and the Point of it is to protect the interests and respect and recognize The best interest of the landowner partner first So did anybody have any questions other than the one that got fixed? Anybody want to make a motion to accept it I'll make a motion to accept the updated bylaw amendments I'm sorry, I'm reading the I'm reading I'm reading I got ahead of myself there hang on a second It jumped on to another page Landowner yeah, the landowner agreement. I'll make a motion to we Even as modified I Pushed it in the second to accept it all those in favor Opposed we have one abstention with Larry being out Update on the proposed zoning bylaw amendments This has been hanging out. We talked about it last time The idea was to give you some time to review to consider to come up with any further questions you may have We can go back and revisit individual pieces. I mean, it's a little bit later. This was packed I did not want to lose this there's a time element tied to a grant but as I've said to you before the choices between getting it right and Blowing through a grant deadline And then we blow through the grant deadline so I looked at this and Have concerns about this in a few different areas One of the challenges I see is that we're now taking this down to 5,000 square feet for a home and Buildings can be 30 feet apart 15 foot setback from both property lines 30 feet is pretty tight if you got 15 feet to get equipment in and do any type of work on your home That's not very much space Coming from the construction side of view I can tell you we wouldn't be able to do it if we had to get up on the roof or any major thing, but My bigger concern is I haven't seen anything where we've looked at what the impact of this is Like if you put a house on every 5,000 square feet in the town And I know it won't happen, but we're like tripling the housing stock in Randolph That increases your need for municipal resources How do we pay for all that? Like and I know like zoning doesn't get built out and isn't that quick, but if I understand correctly Some of the predictions are that with this change in just the buildings that are there now Right taking a large home and splitting it into two residents and changing the garage into a home, too And whatnot could potentially bring a hundred new families into Randolph within the first year That's a big number. I mean first off. I don't think it's gonna happen. I think that's a very unrealistic value, but like that alone is a big number the full build-out is I think but around 400 or 400 500 500 families, but like I don't know that we've evaluated the impact on Municipal resources like what is our what is our demand like what does that do to the demand for fire? coverage doesn't it bring resources as well and I mean if there's a hundred more families living in town there's a hundred more people paying taxes and Not necessarily though businesses Well, I think the question is like what does what does that look like? Built out and what is the revenue that would come to the town like if you're taking a home and making at a duplex What's the difference in the grand list value for that? Shouldn't be much Right, you just added a wall, you know, you know, I mean like That building is now a duplex if you if you're taking a garage and you're changing it into a home You probably have some Change in the grand list, right? I would think the value of a home on the grand list versus a garage would be a little bit higher, but I I apologize or stepping up the question you're responding to oh, we're talking about the changes in the bylaws and the housing part of it and like where the If you look at the density that's allowed now We're just talking about like the high density area the 5,000 square feet and houses able to be 30 feet apart but Like what's the impact to the town when we if we do that and I'm against adding housing that just to me seems like a lot That's a big Transition to go from, you know, go down to 5,000 square feet into and we're also adding The ability to which I think is great to take these old houses that are there and give them some flexibility and what they can be in the in the garages and carriage sheds that were with a lot of those buildings give them a use but It just feels like coupling that on with a lot of these other changes. That's that's a pretty drastic Change specifically, I don't understand your your point is that because most of the changes are Are in response to the change in state statute? Mm-hmm But the ones that but there's a couple that aren't and one of them is the minimum is the decreased minimum lot size in the high-density Areas, that's what you're specifically. Yeah, what I'm trying to get my head around is if you look at every 5,000 square foot You could have a house right like what does that mean for the town like We're making a change that big. We should be looking at what is that going to do for demand on the public services? What is the What is it? What's the impact of that? No Right, but it's a new construction if it's new construction right some of these will be just changing over existing structures Which it's to me. That's an easy one, but it's not gonna have a huge It's not a huge change there to the Stuff all the duplex stuff that's all required of us by statute and but but there's gonna be an impact to it Right, right, but we don't have a we don't have a choice as to whether accept or that or not agreed But we know the the quantity of that right? We only have so many structures and in The area that can be changed into that, right? So we we have that number. That's an impact. That's coming We still don't know what that could be right, but that to me isn't gonna bring you in a lot of extra tax revenue Right, so we now have a mandate from the state to allow accessory dwellings and whatever and For these structures to be split, but there isn't gonna be a lot of tax revenue Taking a house from a single-family home to a duplex isn't gonna change the value of it much For a grand list piece The garage might change some but I don't see it being a huge amount I'm just here's my concern is that if we take all this as one and we run with it all in one We could find ourselves going shit, how are we gonna afford this like It's But I guess what I want to point out though is that 95% of the changes are statutes are by statute like we don't we actually don't have a choice We're just conforming to state statute deal, but one exception isn't is minimizing is is Making the minimum on size smaller and that's and so that's the one we have control over That's the one that has the biggest impact to us with no That five acre piece to yeah, I got an issue with that one too. I was taking them one at a time, but the it's the Yeah Like did they was there anything done in the planning commission to say this change is going to create this Demand or this I can tell you about what my recollection of our discussion was In terms of making the minimum outside smaller One one consideration was that we already have many lots out many lots that are already smaller than five thousand And many that are between I think it's I think the current minimum is 10 or 12 And we already have many that are between those sizes As well that are kind of grandfathered in you know when the zoning happened So we have precedent for it and we already have places in town where It exists and it seems to be okay Well, I mean they don't yeah, I mean they I guess they must be not conforming because they don't but they But they were already in place so couldn't undo them and I think the other part of the the calculation is that There's there's so much there's so much pressure for increased housing that In some way or another that pressure is going to be It needs to be relieved somewhere Especially if you want to have impacts on on local housing costs and so if we can do something to Make it easier to or less costly to build in the already developed areas It could take some of the pressure off people who are trying to build in less developed areas and if we're gonna have a New unit of housing built I Personally would much rather see it happen in in the already dense village where it's already on water and sewer And we don't have to construct new power lines And we don't have to make new roads and we don't have to add traffic to dirt roads, which are already hard to maintain Then then to see that building happen outside the district So I think that's part of the the vision that that I personally have taken to heart when thinking about Didn't you know increased Development is coming Where do we where do we want it? We're just gonna say no we don't want it or we're gonna say Okay, we can have some increased development, but we want it in these places my concern is controlling the volume Yeah, I it's like how do you do it in a managed way versus just Yeah, I mean I think I think much of that is just gonna happen naturally It's not like we're suddenly gonna have a rush of people saying oh now I can subdivide my in-village lot and like, you know, that's it just doesn't really Plus how much have them have you looked at what what the volume of I mean how many lots are there really? I mean realistically that could be realistically divided. Yeah to do this. I mean, I don't know and that's what's missing it like What does this look like? What is the When you did the when you made the decision to go down to 5,000 there wasn't anything that said we have 20 lots that this could apply to versus a hundred lots this could apply to like I Guess what I'm trying to get my head around is like what what happened What was the what's the data on this that shows kind of what this might be what the impact might be? Like if you're gonna have a whole bunch of houses, is our water system gonna be able to handle that We have lots are we in fact that's an argument for putting more units in Town is because we have we have we have a lot of capacity in the water district for and sewer district So I agree with you and water though. I'm not It's certainly sure that's my understanding is that we have plenty of capacity capacity We move pro street to reserve capacity and it turns out the northwells Are on the low side of yield projections and you add enough units And or commercial enterprise at the same time that are high water users That would be the question. How quick do we get to that cap? I think wastewater. Thankfully, that's a blessing is We have plenty of that as a capacity So we could come home to every cheese maker in the state I Six brewers and six cheese makers and we might be upside down, but we have an issue because that's because it seems like Maybe maybe the constraints on the water system were more Constrained that I then I thought they were but I just be sort of the modeling of max number of units Versus the capacity especially of Pearl Streets off And or the consideration is is there a way to is there a way to do something else with Pearl Street to keep that Yield somewhere in the mix somewhere down the line because that was Chris about what's gonna happen to pro Street and he Says that the plan is from his point of view is that we're gonna keep that well operational right and and use it As a part as you know as a part of our mix It's just gonna be a small enough percentage That we're gonna meet the water quality, you know standards that we're that we've Currently that we've had some trouble with drought resilient some fires of protection would be and Be ramped up quickly if we needed a lot of water My understanding was the same thing if there was a large fire or something and It would be able to come online for backup, but it wouldn't be part of the daily mix The DC is indicated in conversations that that Makes sense, so I think there's a pathway and then so the larger conversation will be But stays as it is are there other things you can do to that well since it's already permitted We leave it online. I mean you'd have to talk about the manganese removal really is the thing And there's some grant funds available. They were trying to get us to take a look at one there They haven't made an announcement on their availability yet, but we might be able to at least explore that a little barrier way but Yeah, just would be seeing number of units and then calculating it at The more conservative number which probably the state's gallons per day Allocation, I don't know that we've ever done that my because we've not had a scarcity thing and And I'm trying to do it every year And if I remember about two-thirds of the local waste water wastewater bills is on the wastewater side and So if if we did have more users on the who are You know paying into the system it's gonna It's gonna it's gonna help keep those bills Down and we have we're getting it and we're we're at a point right now where we're just that we're gonna need to raise rates So very soon because it's been a long time since we've raised water wastewater rates So the idea of being able to add people to the system most of the system costs are fixed You know it's a constant amount of money to run the system doesn't matter And if you know it almost doesn't matter how much water we use and go through the this the the septic plant And so the more users we have we just lower the per capita costs like almost one to one not quite, but it's pretty close Completely agree with you as long as we have the water to serve them Like that's my concern is at what point do we max out and have to add more capacity at where my mind is my understanding was that we're we're not Close to Tapping out the amount of you know, like we're gonna run out of water I didn't I've never heard of that as being an issue I knew we were in a drop capacity, right? We take Pearl Street off even bringing these on we're lower We're not meeting quite the same production as we can get out of Pearl Street. So I don't know what that does It's crazy that capacity right, but I think any changes that we're talking about here in terms of like How many new units are gonna happen? I mean, we're talking about this happening over decades Like it's it's this isn't something that's going to happen. You hope in the next couple of years For example, they did a similar thing conservation subdivision regulations try to drive everything into downtown They knew the infrastructure wasn't there to support it thinking it was a 40 50 year proposition within three years they had Applications for 500 units It can happen the things you think can't happen can happen I didn't expect a relatively possible sure is it likely I Don't think it's likely I never thought we'd spend an hour talking about a remand from the PUC Which You always got to make decisions on the You can't you know, you can be wrong we're gonna make decisions that are wrong. We can't be afraid to be wrong The other one I had brought up before you came back in and fairness was the 15 foot setback for houses like you can't do much in 15 feet so Like getting equipment in there to do repairs on a house and whatnot 15 feet is pretty tight Yeah, I love and it says well, I'm assuming that's where it is. It says they changed the setbacks to 15 feet and that's pretty tight So my other switching out of the high density Is the Merging rural residential and rural agricultural To me as a concern. We had a lot of conversation Back when Perry was still on Him and I sat down and looked at all the different properties about increasing the size of lots in the rural agricultural versus leaving them at five acres and keeping that to preserve agricultural use and I'm not sure if we merged those two districts. We're gonna get to that piece of it When we were when we merged them we kept the bigger lot size of the two over at five acres Yeah, right and because I think one was two and a half and one was five And so we made them now they're gonna both be five But if we're going to be promoting agra Entrepreneurial or it's just part of that word the new word that's in there agrapreneurial We're going to be promoting that Breaking down lots to five acres isn't gonna help us with that right like The conversation was on are we going to preserve larger blocks of land? To keep it in as open and available for ag and if we merge these two lots into one zone We don't have that. Oh, you're saying that we did that then we do you're saying that you're so what you're saying Let me let me see if I understand you correctly. You're saying that if we merge those two zoning districts It will make it harder for us to increase the lot size in the in the agricultural district in the future if we so Desired if we wanted to if we wanted to do that to to help preserve bigger chunks of agricultural land Great. We're losing a district. That's was always focused on agriculture and Calling it right, but I guess I want to understand like what specifically would be The problem and when I'm when I'm here I guess I'm here as you say is it would preclude us not preclude us, but it would make it more difficult for us to Increase the lot size from the current five acres You're gonna have to create a whole new district that if we wanted to do that because we wouldn't be able to We could but maybe we wouldn't want to Potentially do that in the residential in the rural residential area Right, you're gonna be breaking the district out To then change the lot sizes right If we're serious about trying to create the ability for firms to have other uses Then it feels like we ought to be keeping an ag district and increasing the lot size versus Keeping that I think it's the ag side that had the five acres. Yes, you know Which the whole conversation we'd had I don't know for quite a while was like five acres isn't enough to do much ag-wise right they like What did what steps are we going to take if we're gonna say five acres right now the whole town You know and it could be for you know Could be split into five acres For housing so if I have a hundred acre lot and I can now have 20 houses on it right and so if I'm if we're Looking to preserve land to be used for ag We haven't done that Group any favors by allowing it to go down to five acres if you have 25 acres. We're not we're not making it go down We're keeping it right but having it at that five acre doesn't help us preserve that land for agriculture, right? Right, right now. I agree. I agree. That's a good point. I did not come up in our discussion Yeah, no, that's I just trying to look at like I I think that's an excellent point I think that's really powerful argument for keeping them separate and Looking at when we redo our town plan That do we want to you know may have a more heavy emphasis on preserving agricultural land in that district And if so, we'll making the lot sizes the minimum lot sizes bigger achieve that aim and We could hold off on making that change until then because you know the the impetus for all for all these changes was simply to Have the town plan and then the zoning In sync, you know in sync and so I'm not an expert on whether this is part was part of that effort or not But we have I think somebody on line Sydney is not in her head Cindy. Sydney. Were you trying in? Yeah, so this was part of that Attempt to bring the bylaws in line with what was I believe a the planning mission should consider combining these two districts and then the town plan and its descriptions of the Land use areas did show them combined So the planning commission in its deliberations decided to bring the bylaws into as close of Connection with the town plan is as they could reasonably do But there's no problem. I mean the the ability is there to keep them as two separate districts Right, it's just it lines up better with the same let with the language in the town plan if They're one but but I like what you're saying Trini and I and we're gonna be revising the town plan shortly, it's due so instead of changing this Land use regulation now and then and then going and changing the town plan and then going back changing regulations to to agree with the new town plan Does seem a little silly Yeah, well, and I think if we're gonna keep this focus on open land and whatnot to That's where the size the lot size comes into play, right? Like if you want open land and you want Less development your lot sizes need to stay on the higher side to keep it from being split up into Small building lots. Yeah As your farmers you're getting older and whatnot and that's you know in some cases those are looked at is Well, I'll just peel off five acres and sell it and that'll fund me for the next few years And then I'll peel off another And so slowly you would end up creeping into not having ag land which is then Yeah, gonna be a bit some other neighboring states. I Don't want to be them. That's what they look like I don't I don't want that I should And the other one I just I need to go and look at the language on it But it's the subdivision using of road and river is a natural subdider And I had a good conversation with mark about it today and I Get his side of it and I agree with him on his side And he now gets my side of it and agrees with that but we don't know how to marry the two up So I need to look at that a little better, but It's I wish I could have been there for that conversation. Yeah, it was really good We get along great. So it was all friendly It was wonderful more of a okay So, you know and I get his part like if you If you own a parcel and you have three acres on one side of the river And you want to sell it off to somebody and let them build a house to finance something or to do whatever Right now you can do that right because it's a natural subdider and But you also then have this partially can't do anything with except maybe sell to in a butter Right on the other side of the property. And so then I gave him my example, which is We do own a parcel of land and we don't want to do anything with it So this isn't all in self-preservation, but I know this is out there in other places Half acres on one side of the road the 17 acres is on the other side of the road and We really only needed the half acre But we had to buy the whole parcel to get it and it's used for an agriculture building pump shack for the sugaring operation I either got to keep Four and a half acres on the other side, which means all the land that gives you access to it because the rest of it's down over a bank Um And then subdivide and sell off the part that's over the bank Or to keep the whole thing and keep paying taxes on it and all I needs that half acre But I'm not going to put a house on it Right like I'm not doing anything like that. So his concern is housing like you build a house on that portion but an accessory ag building is a different issue and You know, could you subdivide? That property so that that Smaller portion that you're going to use for something other than housing or a commercial business Could be done on it, but not Then can you put a building restriction type thing on that property? So that was the conversation the two of us had and We both agreed with each other's position. We just don't know how to word it to get both I mean, maybe maybe there's no way To do it, right? Maybe you just have to pick one and Pick the one which is going to work best even though it's not going to work We kicked around a few ideas. So we're going to play with the language on that one too and see if we can make it work That'd be great. If you can come up with something which will address both of your concerns That's that We did get into a I know we exchanged an email. We never got to sit down and talk about it, but During an active 50 hearing Larger parcel. It was over 100 acres 12 acres was needed for the commercial development and The river was a natural divider root 14 and the river were two dividers And we didn't want to give them jurisdiction over the rest of the property So we argued that that was a natural subdivider And they shouldn't have jurisdiction over the rest of the land and we ended up winning because there was nothing in those town zoning rules That said you couldn't use the road or the river as a subdivider So like that's an unintended consequence that this would cause for the next person that Might try to do that and when you look at the properties down through we got a lot of properties that follow the river That might be able to benefit from that. So, you know, it was just more of a Interesting But having the road in the river not be a natural subdivider for a housing lot. I think is Is good. I just don't know how that plays out in practice. So And we only had that discussion today. So in fear of this, we haven't had much time to do the rest of it But that's just something that That I think we get to clarify a little bit in there Those are my three Anybody else have any Do you read them tom? Yeah, it's either mandated or it's just makes sense and it's not contentious There's these few things which are more significant Do you want to try to resolve them all in one set or do you want to try to do Peel off the ones for which there's Limited choices and or broad agreement and move those ahead You're not sure I think the ones that are are mandated. We ought to just Push forward and we don't have any say in those Get like they're right. We just need to conform the statute. You know, it's just really personal Yep, I think it would be good though for us to to look at what the impact of that is because at some point here We're going to be asked to start putting together kind of all these changes that we have to make what the impacts are and and this is a smaller one than some of them, but it is one so like Some of these changes where we're taking a single home now and making it a duplex We're not going to get any grand list value out of that But we're going to add people and I'm not saying adding people to town isn't a good thing But it increases the cost of the public services, you know, whether it's additional rec program or it's kids in the school or it's Whatever and they're all good things, but there's an expense to them like and we keep getting these hand-me-downs that seem good and they're great public policy, but there's an expense to them and we don't get any flexibility From the state level on ways to raise money to pay for some of this stuff And I don't know what the answer is. I don't know what the funding source is, but it's just you know, most most the whole duplex thing is sort of moot because we are zoning zoning already allows Two single-family homes to be converted into duplexes in all the high-density areas already Like we've already made that change quite a while ago. Didn't they say like some of these are going to three or four More than that though, I just was using duplex because it was easy. Yeah, that's probably what we'll see And in fact, I don't imagine we'll see many of these And in a lot of places you can put already put a lot more units like Like we're like my house the lot size is a third of an acre and And we have enough space that we could have four No, I think three we could have three units of housing where there's one right now And Either ATUs or tiny houses Just according to our zoning, you can just break it up and make it into like we could we could make our our house Barn conglomeration into a triplex According to current zoning So we're we already have a lot of this baked in And we're not I don't know that we're really seeing tons of conversions No, and I think some of this is um I think where you're going to see the changes as the baby boomers Continue to age out of the homes they're in right like My understanding is a lot of these the kids aren't interested in coming home and having this humongous victorian home to To keep up or to do anything with and that's it's when those are turning over that that opportunity is there It uh, and they're not all Victorian. I was just like Seems like a lot of them in random far a lot of big houses And that's where your opportunity to get it into a multi unit is Yeah, and for a lot of those places it's going to be the difference between it being a property That's well maintained and one that's not because those places single family homes are so expensive to keep up Well, a lot of these were built back when energy efficiency wasn't even thought about too like some of them are just Some of them are just huge Imagine the parties do they head in those houses that were right Thank you All right So maybe what we'll do is feel off what's already sort of required What already seems agreeable and then at least identify the one step maybe want more conversation and then Start to map out the steps to adopt The ones from the first category I wouldn't um I would say like I believe the next step for us is um To have the hearing on it correct. And so I think um The ones that I'm More concerned about moving forward to the ones that I kind of talked about that 5000 I understand that but I'd like to just understand how many we're talking about like are we just talking a handful which is fine Or are we talking a lot? On that and the the 15 foot setback is what's I'm more concerned with that than I am the 5000 because I think that's pretty tight for us to have people A fire safety were required to have 20 feet for snow storage Well, don't we already have 10 foot setbacks in much of the village? This says it's reducing it to 15 That might be a mistype on my end. I'm not exactly sure where you are, but if you're in the CD RV And I'm 11 section 214 Okay, I don't have the rest of the documents here with me. I think the rural residential rural ag one needs some more Conversation Your point did not come up and I think that is really important And I would like to still work with mark on the language around the road river subdivider Even if I steal this it's not mine If I in talking with mark though if I understood correctly We would have the ability to knock that down so the setback was only five feet So you could have two structures 10 feet apart In that and that was like accessory buildings or whatever and I don't know you might be able to do that today, but Like your look your snow load is going right on to somebody else's building that close Like you get a good you get a good metal roof on that sucker and on nice warm day after a snowfall and that Right into the neighbor's building Like You'd want to make sure your building was a little bit taller than his right? That's close with the timing normally I just say let's work through all of them You got a year from when the planning commission got it to you. I'm just trying to think to some of the original One of the original pressure points was timing related to the grant requirements And that was why there was an idea maybe to try to split And move some To satisfy the majority of it can go. Yeah, right like the majority others for a later Time that that's why I'm thinking split. I don't know if that makes any sense, but But I think our next step on that is setting that public hearing right the select board has to hold the hearing Yeah Well, I've been through this before but my mind is fried today in a prior document Sydney sent us too in terms of so I think we we just have to we have to hold that We have to get it out there. It has to be out for a certain number of days Then we have a public hearing on it There's a comment period Then we decide if they're minimal changes that we want to make Our major major we have to start over about minimal we can make and keep progressing it, right? Yeah, you want us to try to aim for the First viable Thursday in January since you meet every Thursday for budget reasons or Sure Because depending on time it has to be 40 Sydney, how many days does this have to be noticed for the public hearing portion? Is it 45 or 15? Yeah, it's 15 15-day notice. What's the is there an adoption period? What Man the different thing is it ordinances that are 45 45 days the appeal into a general ordinance There's a 45 day thing that comes into play with the drb as well Yeah Okay, it's a feeling of the 15-day notice we could do this it But don't pack that meeting with a heavy budget thing in case you get a lot of people I mean this could be one of those that nobody shows up at and it sails right through but it also could be one of those that It's hung up Depends if the puc is involved It's cat alive is the cat dead it's cat even in there brutal Okay, is everybody good with that approach? Let's go on Thank you, Sydney. Thanks, Sydney Thank you Update on the police services committee Not it But I think we're still working through there's a lot to Take in after the forum. I think at the next meeting there's going to be some more conversation with sounds like st albin's city about some of the Mental health and embedded social worker type programming That's come up as sort of when you think back to the original scope and the question of what's a police service? What is what versus What do you maybe not? Need as a strictly police response and or is there are there some things that aren't Police response at all. So that's going to happen on monday. We've got two more meetings scheduled one for this coming monday another one in january Keep talking through that and then obviously the other big question is which of the models to recommend and how to start moving toward final report Well, we're not going to have a final report this year I don't see it happening Interim report was what was talked about Just as an acknowledgement of kind of where we're at especially So What does this mean for budgeting and for putting the What what are we putting before the voters in March, or are we not I mean that that's an open question in terms of is it some Version of a district budget that builds off what was already passed or are we pointing the skis downhill and Hucking it over a cliff and So going with a like a town-wide model would be that sort of You know all the way in High cost model, so I I'm asking that from a timing. Yeah standpoint We have to go warn Tom being February 8th is right somewhere in there. Yeah I think the the challenge right now tom is there This we keep hearing that claire martin center has a budget to pay for an embedded worker Right, but claire martin center hasn't been willing to bring it up in any of our meetings and we also don't Completely have our head around what that looks like Right, so we've heard there may be three to four calls a month one time and maybe ten the next month But that's not a full-time position. So what does that? You know, how do you work in somebody? And we can't say okay. We're gonna need you on friday at three p.m And we're gonna need you again saturday at four a.m. Like it's How do you meet that service demand? But now there's a There's been folks coming in talking about Like when somebody is an od Odes and they law enforcement has a role in that and then they hand them off and the ambulance takes them or You whatever there's nobody doing wraparound services for that person to say, you know, let's get you into rehab Let's get you here and there Is that a town function? Or is that a claire martin center function? Or is that a gibford function or so that's the part we just don't have our hands around But what why is that the driving? topic in terms of Whether we're sticking with the district going to the expanded district of going Townwide, I mean it seems like it's one element of it, but for it to be the It sounds like it's a core discussion right now. I don't quite understand why Well, that's the case Um Well, I think it's a it's one topic. It's not the only one out there It's one of the pieces. We just don't have our head around as far as what that service looks like and how it's delivered And who does it and where it is on the other topic the I think some of what has to be discussed is What does that mean? Like So let's say we decide we're going townwide. We put it out to vote in march And the voters say yay or nay If they say yay, we're now the the main point of contact for police services in the entire town We don't have the law enforcement capacity to do that Right. So is it a phased approach? Do we You know, do we vote? Do we vote to um expand the district some in year one And then some in year two and whatnot to build up. There's not enough personnel. There's not enough equipment And as soon as we say we're it we're it Like vsp is no longer the primary responder to the rest of the town like they are today So We don't think we can do that We can't we can't provide the service. We can't we voted in march. We already in a situation where Vsp is not providing the service because they're still out there They're they're responding to their list is quite you get the stats every month Like there's a pretty long list of what they're doing And they are the primary responder out our way. They're the primary responder They're showing I know I know that they're that's they're the primary responder I was on the impression that they were often not responding to a lot of things because they're like We can't come to calls like that because we don't have the staff There's either lack time or they may stack them for scott in the morning depending on where they're at We had a couple of examples of yeah, so it wasn't a situation that demanded an emergency response, but Maybe demanded a response of some kind so they get stacked and then scott or his crew Deal with them sort of at the beginning of the next shift. They show up in the village In the district. Yeah in the district without our way like yeah, you got a neighbor. That's being a pain They'll they'll show up. It may not be today But if you got an active shooter You got something serious They're going to show up anyway no matter where it is like yeah, it doesn't matter Right, so the major items they're there immediately and some of the others they may take a half hour 45 minutes to show up, but they show up It's it's that wasn't I mean that wasn't what I thought I heard the Officer at the public meetings I thought he said very clearly we don't have the capacity to address a number of different types of call Period they're 40 40. I think in the if I read the article right they've been out We're talking to chelsea recently and they're down 40 of their staff overall In the same place, but so are we like We're fishing in the same pond as scott says for for officers, right? There's There's not a large influx The people coming into law enforcement are not equal to the number of people leaving There's many articles in In the national media in recent days about this phenomenon. It's not just Local no, but it's it's a nationwide. Yeah Law enforcement's not exactly a desirable I don't blame them present like I don't blame them Look here scott. It's a perfectly fine honorable choice and you should stay with it forever Disregard everything you just heard I I didn't mean that personally, sir. No, I I I get it. Thanks a lot. No, it's cool. I mean, I see what you did to me. It's all right So if you guys don't mind just a little bit, you know, I sympathize with you. I'm not Yeah, I'm here to discuss in regards to the vsp, you know, I'm sitting over here in my office And I'm looking at the cat screen for tonight. You have Three troopers that are on tonight You know, so their response time is minimal at best I've even like last week We there was an incident here in Chandler here in the village Where I didn't have any officers on And uh, there was an incident and they didn't show Um, how all period Um, so it's hit or miss with rostate police. It's just really truly hit or miss if it's uh threat to life Uh an active kind of stuff. Sure. They'll come their response times are are are really poor But they will come if it's non non life threatening There's a chance that it won't come if they can't handle it by a phone call They're not coming So just kind of and that's the way it's been kind of working For quite a little while now It's not every call though No, so there's a lot of different opinions I've gone through and read the cases Or the case that was punched for both myself and vsp Um, and there's different opinions of what was being reported to what was being talked about inside Uh, some of it being yes, there was a crossbow inside the unintended motor vehicle. There was mentioned Uh, not in the report which wasn't reported that there is A large number of firearms in the vehicle that's never been confirmed at all And We're in mouse's there was a verbal confrontation that happened just outside champ Again, that was never reported nor is it uh, verified in any shape or form Um, so there was some really no there was no response due to the lack of information that the reporter Who was the alleged victim in this? Uh failed to provide Authorities in any shape or form So there was no response unfortunately But if uh going to the other side of this if we go to vote in march and we say we're going town-wide Then we're where are you at? Shrewd You got the picture Well, it's more because you don't have the staff you need to do the area you're responding to today If you guys were gonna say that i'm going town-wide, you know by march and I don't have a window to try to bring in officers Um as of like now I'm not going to be able to fulfill the slots and there's going to be a lot of shifts open. There's going to be a lot of covers That's not covered. Um, it would be pretty judgmental all the way around Won't that won't that always be the case though? Like Anytime we would go to try to make a change If we wanted to do that Yeah, I hear you but you know, you know kind of going on what tree was just talking about is you know possible late Incremental changes, you know if march one comes around and we're starting to increase our footprint with a lot of two to try to hire Um, I think that's going to get you to where you need to be and say like, you know just Kind of guessing like maybe in the next three years to have the actual staff equipment for a town-wide model um Might be possible But doing it all one shot Right now on march with only three officers You're you're going to destroy the pd faster and you can try to rebuild it And so the other topic now that you're on the screen um That we heard at the public meeting and I've had a few people reach out since is Why is the committee not looking at going bigger than randolph to share the expense and get service to other areas? and And I think it's a valid question Especially since we know chelsea has reached out brookfields reached out I don't know that we've heard from brain tree. Maybe we have and I just don't haven't heard about it, but uh northfields reached out and talked about like why are we both creating police departments and um Like I think that's going to be a much bigger conversation in regards to contractual services or trying to Pull a regional program out of nothing Um, you know, again, you're looking at say just say for example northfield They just lost an officer. So they're at their bones even worse than what we are um You know even trying to combine forces if you will I mean that's that's going to take conversation between both towns to try to Figure out what does that look like? um You know, maybe we can do a contractual service with brookfield Maybe we can do a contractual service with brain tree um You know, like I had a conversation with the captain of lords county who wanted me to do a contractual service with chelsea But he only wanted me to cover nights and weekends Um, again, I don't logistically. I don't have the staff to cover my own house other As opposed to another whole other community Um, where we need to allow it to to start hiring officers to fulfill those contracts Yeah, I think the the discussion that I've heard more is um You're right. It's not a overnight piece, but it's like kind of like the werba model right like why don't X number of towns join together and fund Service for all of them. It's basically like why don't you recreate what orange county sheriff used to be? That's Again, the officers on the road for you to even start rebuilding that model if you will I mean, if you don't have officers, you know, where people call you all kind of peace You know, if you are down officers and you're like pinballing and now you're looking at a way bigger footprint You're gonna burn The officers are faster than you can put them in play Um, you just need more you need more people on the roadway Is what it looks and boils down to even if you open up to a regional model or a contractual services or all the above You still need people on the roadway Yeah, I just meant like The the thing was why can't you why can't you have a decision for us to enact at town meeting day? And that's just one of the other pieces that keeps coming up is You know, we talked about then looking at randoff for the energy coordinator position Like they're looking at randoff for why aren't you providing some level of leadership and how we How we solve our problem for what we need to and I'm like, well, we can't even solve our own yet Like let us walk before we run But that brings us back to kind of that phased approach and should our plan be to gradually grow this Including growing to outside of randoff's limits, right? Like That's that makes sense. And so that's why the the committee is not going to have any answer for you We aren't going to say it. We don't have we aren't going to be able to come in and say We're going to do x like we we want you to we think the board ought to do x I don't know that we know what x is so But I think we're well will the committee come forward with a recommendation It sounds like they're going to come forward potentially with the incremental growth model As a bet in person I would bet that's what's coming. Yeah. Yep. I think that's exactly what's coming of the sense like I mean I came away from the forum last month Feeling that that might be the best approach and that it almost sort of seemed like The sense of the crowd too that they would be potentially amenable to that And It makes sense as you just said to build incrementally if we do want in five to seven years down the road Create some kind of a regional model building to it in incremental terms before biting off more than we can chew Well scott needs a Yeah scott needs the the opportunity to to build what he's got right like Right now we kind of slapped it together We gave him what we could get a budget through for You know, what does that look like what what does next year look like and I I don't know if We're gonna try to give you what next year looks like And my guess is it's going to be a beefed up version of what the budget was this year with maybe some Different level of the outside of the district funding there But it's going to be Not a the it won't be the ideal, but it won't be the bare bones either Is what I would And also, I'm just kind of looking for you know some kind of direction I don't understand that you guys can't give me that tonight You know, it's just it's you know, where where are we going to see ourselves in the next year for two years I mean tell I mean looking for you know, what's going to happen next year Um, you know a direction and then we can you know try to expand or build upon Whatever you guys are going to give me You know if it's going to be try to branch out and develop some other, you know You know contracts, you know, but that's going to have to be between the two towns to come You know, what are they looking for? I mean I can be that middle guy, you know say, you know Like what are you looking for? What kind of services are you looking for? If it's a non-call basis of you know, we need you Two o'clock in the morning and I have I don't have an awesome or I have one awesome That may not be you know, kind of what we're looking for It's hard to kind of picture what other communities or or anything if I can't even fulfill What's going on here? and I'm very Yeah, we're not even we're missing the boat here and you know, if we don't expand or don't build We're gonna have more burnout than we're gonna have a PD And so we heard um We heard that the school is hosting a meeting a hearing and doing a Community survey on bringing in a resource officer, which would be a big help So, you know, honestly, it's going to be a help, but it's going to be a help that you know, I'm not going to be at the school It's going to be a officer at the school, but it's a officer. That's not on the road Um, sure, I can probably use that officer in the summertime to relieve a some vacation time for Much fewer stress on my other guys that were on the road But you know, they're kind of walked away in that and in that bit of SRO type position Um You know It's kind of like one hand and the other kind of thing sure it's going to help Where it's not buying me up on a daily basis, but it is buying up another officer But they're paying for that officer in this model. So it's bringing another resource in They're paying for it and it's going to free up your time like And it could help with some of these other things, right? Like Some of the challenges you're seeing on the other side are the kids that are in the school And you're going to school to deal with them and then you're having to deal with them in the community side too. So I mean At this point I mean, it's another law enforcement officer. It would it has to be part of your department I guess it doesn't have to be right orange county or somebody else or state police could do it But it makes sense that it's in your department Well, again, you know, I mean if there are we got a fifth of bill for it and it's kind of looking that way But you know, see what happens with the final budget that they put together Um, you know, we're still trouble We're also trying to sneak a car in there too because that officer Will need a travel car to travel with in between all schools because what they're talking about is not just the high school but a Ds break to sro. So that includes brain tree row field The elementary school the texanermal high school So they're going to need some kind of go to travel to travel to those satellite schools, if you will I remember trying to work that in as well on a part of a couple of conversations preliminary conversations with the superintendent But you know, they really haven't gotten off the ground just yet Yeah, but it's a good it's a positive Like the fact that they're considering it's a step on growth and it's a separate direction You know, I'm just missing the other parts of pieces of putting costs on the road So that's kind of what we're grappling with and then develop a recommendation of what to do And we'll find out monday like Where we're at with that part of it, but just so you know, too I've had a few other conversations in regards to the social worker aspect So more often not the social worker is not a substitute for a law enforcement officer It's more of a addition to that officer. So if the you see for example, the social worker Uh, you know kind of goes out and deals with the aftermath of a overdose like we have heard in the past An officer is still kind of tied to that social worker It's not a here you go forget you. You know, I'm going to be at this person's residence or in the hospital for hours So then you're still tying up that officer So it's not a 100% savings. You're still tying up those resources Where we were additionally kind of thought that it may Be a alleviate but Through the other agencies I've spoken to with these social workers that were implemented in their offices That's not quite the deal So it's it's we have to start, you know, we're kind of really kind of view it as it's not a supplement It's a additive And it doesn't really take away of the numbers that we're going to need to do tell my model or whatever the model may be Suggesting so If i'm hearing you correctly You haven't actually gotten clarity from claire martin that They would supplement the cost no and as a matter of fact they've been Because christin keeps bringing it up as and that they get money from the state to pay for it and whatnot, but uh There's a group that meets on a regular basis that scott's part of and claire martin center's part of to talk about some of the issues and whatever Yeah, and you know It just seems like to me if you had the money to hire this person and you felt it was that important Where were you a year ago when we stood this police department up? You should have been at the table saying hey, I got money to hire somebody Let's get you a worker to help you. Yeah But we still don't even have them saying we have the money to help pay for it or that You know, we'll help you find somebody here like there's That's the part we're going to try to drill into on monday and you better understand from st. Albans like How does it work where you are like what are And we keep hearing from christin like there's savings. There's huge savings in these communities that have these folks embedded in their department Where are they? What are what are those savings anybody from claire martin at the table at the police services? They came once Right they came and gave us that one. It seems like we don't use the services very much You know it seems like it's a straightforward Do you do this or don't you I mean I would imagine sin albans is probably Contracting with someone or do they have um, yeah, I think I think it's uh But if they were the original were they the original one scott That I think so, yeah But like christin wrote a lot of the partnerships throughout the state um, they're all associated with any The social worker or a mental health establishment You know so like the for example the royals and barracks who has their slot still vacant and it's been vacant for a year plus Is like for the claire martin center And they haven't even put you know been able to find a correct fit for that barracks for a social worker Or in the mental health worker But that person we could use too like It's not a you can't go out and hire somebody and give them full-time work because you may have Three calls this month ten calls next month It's it's right. It's not a cookie hunters. They were predicted to have fired of mental health calls You know a month, but it's it's sporadic at best all the way around. Yeah, we might just be too small for We are too small And you know and you know just the numbers that we have put up Since we've been in existence because we're very diligent in tracking, you know, what's a mental health call? What's not and the numbers are very very small Um, you know doesn't support a full-time person. No it doesn't It barely supports a part-time position But in a additive and that's just calls here in the village And then an additive if you look at a bigger footprint Hiya a town model or a regional model for a tri-town or what have you that may increase But we're not there. We don't have that data set We're just not there And then one of the things we've been talking about is the contract with somebody right or you share an employee Okay for that service. There's no saying two people don't need it at the same time Right. Well, yeah, so we need it and Royalton needs it and the person's on demand for both So much to show around scale, right? Yep. If it was if it's a bigger place then this these problems don't even pop up. It's like we tend to Here we here we can have five calls in a day or five calls in a month If you're in a much bigger place, you're gonna have 100 calls plus or minus five every day no matter what yeah staff Yeah Well, when you're talking about a social worker and rob around services, I mean It's not just the call the call becomes a caseload of Providing services to hopefully prevent like correct and prevent and get someone on a better Like path, right? So I think that's it's we're not talking like So Not talking like, you know, it's a five minute piece. It could be hours on end or days on end or follow-up with that client But you know, you're also going to try to you know, kind of provide those rob around services for them to have that full-time clinician as opposed to A embedded worker here. It's Well, that worker wouldn't be that clinician They would be how can I bridge the gap to that condition so that client can get the services Does that make sense? They're helping them make that connection to what they need Right Which is part of the reason to try to marry up with the Clara Martin Center Right because they have the folks there that can provide those services But and I think that's going to be your starter point is to have that kind of contract with you know, so You can say well, maybe we need them for like 20 hours a week or what have you to start And but their other duties are within Clara Martin Center And then maybe they're going to use the amount of call. I you know, I don't know but You know for our purposes, you know, they They respond to the call They help out with the call and then they're done. You know as when they can pass off to the clinician that can provide that That care You know, it's it's that gap. It's that breach. Yeah where law enforcement's failing at it because we don't have the context where maybe this other person Invented in the Clara Martin Center or whatever has better context than what we have As a law enforcement officer You've kind of gone beyond the Where you need that licensed law enforcement person into this other area and It's how do you get to that point where you hand it off? Oh, it's been a it's been an educational committee Absolutely And you know police departments all over the place are grappling with this issue It's in a metropolitan area or you know, Burlington has certainly wrestled with it the last several years Um Yep Again the smaller you are the harder it is Yeah, you can't afford it. Well, right? Because these issues are on scale like yeah, we just there's certain things that you need to do and It's harder to do if you don't have enough people And to their defense, I mean, Clara Martin is you know, kind of dealing with the same I mean, they're they're trying to provide mental health services to a largely rural area. No, it's it's hard for them It's not it's and we have they're same issues at the hospital. We're operating a small hospital with small units It's really hard to staff. Absolutely. Yep. Absolutely And it's just because there's this they're so small The only positive there is they have the Like the traveling nurses and the traveling specialists and whatnot. They can bring in they're expensive Right, but not but scott doesn't have that Right, but it but it's but it's this it's this idea that you can have A lot of time where there's very little going on and then a lot and then suddenly have way too much going on And it's really unpredictable and it jumps around a lot because you're so small If you're bigger your your overall Level of service compared to the size of your staff is much more consistent statistically. It's relatively like flat behind her You know, yeah You you you know Here in in Randolph like you take a particular type like you Scott could see twice as many calls one day than the next day If you're in a big metropolitan area, it's not like you're gonna go from 10,000 calls a day and all of a sudden when do you get 20,000 calls? That's just statistically impossible. They might go To 20,500 calls But they're never gonna have these wild swings that we do just because we're so small It's just it's really tough. Yeah That's part of what the challenge is So we have to pay in a sense. We want to we really what we really Need to do in some senses have a lot more staff per capita Um Than a bigger place and so it gets it's you know, if you want to be able to handle the the Most of the calls most of the time and that's so it gets very expensive very quickly Which then takes you down to the conversation of Like what should they be covering? What shouldn't they be covering? What are we going to provide for service? What's that level look like? And then that conversation goes all over the place. No, that's right. That's right Right like if if it's going to be able to be afforded and you're going to get it through It's going to be voted on and approved. What does that look like and what are we actually Promising that photos are getting for what are they going to get for paying their taxes? Yep. Yeah Yep, and well, you know kind of what we heard in the business community with like 24 seven And plenty of staff so when they call somebody comes especially up at the barn They were the ones that were like We could use you six eight times a day so You know, how do you balance that? Right and the rest of them are you know, we heard from people like I have never called the police Right, I never like police I have But I'm just saying like I live in the police district. I have my disposal supposedly, but I you know, my neighborhood's extraordinarily safe We almost never have problems. Mine wasn't for myself. It was for Yeah, I'm just saying like that's just that's just the common experience, you know I have the neighbor you have the neighbor Then a portion of my neighborhood collapsing into the river Ah, yours is getting smaller So it's not getting anywhere near me Well, I don't think we're gonna solve this here, but that's what we're grappling with and why there's no clear cut It's it's good to get this update as to what you've been wrestling with and have some work But the goal is still to come forward with something with something for the next Fiscal year. Well, we're gonna have to there has to be some for over the budget so And and and if we're expanding the district You know That's going to be on the ballot too. I've had people express a concern to me about the idea of of the incremental expansion um question of how many Residential houses there are versus commercial businesses in the expanded area going down to the Bethel border and up to And how that might impact a vote I don't know whether that's a legitimate concern or not Well, it is right. We know that the southern expansion was voted on once and the residents overwhelmingly Turned it down You know, and I think that's a valid pick piece of it, right? The The business community is clamoring for it. They want to see it They want to see the area expanded. They want the service the residential side isn't quite as vocal In some of these areas and And then the residents aren't calling the police, right? And you know at the barn, they were telling us they've hired their own security Now they'd like to get rid of that and have the police department go town-wide and like well the stories They were telling us you probably ought to have both You know like don't get rid of your security because of that because they got some crazy stuff going up there But there also probably ought to be some communication with the state police about what's coming off the interstate and whatever But you know, I think that's a bigger issue. But I just You know in the whole the conversation about the the what those lines look like raid the lister's office asks us Not to draw straight lines Sure All the side roads Off 66 we took and we went up 66 and we took every parcel that touched 66 and we included the whole parcel And so your line is like this and then what we heard was Okay, so now it's the whole parcel and so it's easier for the lister's office, right to to figure that out But now you've created a nightmare for dispatchers So if you look some of those parcels that touch 66 are actually over on sunset So Some of the residents on sunset are going to have police service some of them are Yeah, that's fine. Yeah So every time you figure one piece out it Changes what is the current state of the? Sheriff's department. Is it still pretty? It's okay. It just got worse actually. Yeah Because they're they're they're budget for next year just got cut pretty dramatic By the body uh by the side judges. Yeah So they're they're if they're an even worse Yeah, so they're they're like hurt in human and if they survive the water out will actually be surprised. Wow Wow, but they're able to provide service and jelsey and they don't want I don't know if you read the herald this week, but Yeah, I mean, well, they're not really providing service. I mean they get a patrol today in chelsea and still have BSP calls for service to go to chelsea also So what kind of service are you looking at? Well, I was more I watched like fuck because you know, unfortunately it still hurts me to know what kind of state these shirts office is actually in Yeah, yeah But the comment from In the paper that was quoted The windsor sheriff was brought into chelsea to talk about whether they would be willing to go because they come to tumbridge Whether they would be willing to come up and provide service and the sheriff's response was If you take a contract in my county, I'm coming to your county and take a contract and I thought With what? Yeah, so I mean there is conversation uh So royals into coverage for tumbridge Uh, the royals and p They do other active contract with red up And for x amount of hours a week And the BSP handles the other responses Um, chelsea is in conversations with wedger county to do the offshoot for nights and weekends Where that sits, I don't know, but I think it storms as conversations And the quote that was in there was that they would look at it, but they were having hard enough time Balancing the needs that they have already so Well, you've got two two agencies that are Are kind of one hence is kind of but they're just about is right now Yep, it's a fun one. Yeah Uh temporary amendment to the personnel policy on the youths Yes, we've got a handful of employees that Are not going to be able to cash out or use their vacation time. Generally these have been folks who have filled in Maybe one on screen who have filled in extra hours above and beyond two patch holes And so what we'd like to do the first up policy is pretty pinned in in terms of how many carryover cash out We'd like to just broaden that because these folks have more than earned these hours scots an example chris is another one short staffing john shangrao is another one And we have a few other employees that might qualify as well. So we're just looking for some sort of temporary solutions so that we can Because otherwise it's forfeiture and that's a really terrible. This sounds like a no-burner. You just we can't we have to treat these folks Yeah, they're making a good faith effort to to do what they're supposed to be doing. We can't hold this against them That's not okay. I've done what we've asked and more what we needed more. So absolutely. Yeah, whatever whatever Whatever motion you need So you're asking to allow them Because of the conditions to extend their time to essentially just yeah create a little anything that they've accrued up through december 30th Let them sort of either carry over what they want to carry over a cash out in exceedance of the 40 hour maximum that's basically in the policy. Yeah, can you get that through on the state contract too? Yeah, no problem. When do you want that by? Well, every paid period I lose time because I'm maxed out and I can't take it because of the shit I got going on so Immediately would be good To approve a temporary amendment section 6.5 of the personnel policy that essentially says for vacation leave earned prior to december 30 2023 Employees may cash out or carry forward vacation leave hours in any amount notwithstanding the applicable paragraph of section 6.5 of the personnel policy I'll make that motion and there's 31 days We have a motion and a second all those in favor Opposed motion carries manager's report I think the most recent other than anybody who wants to had ever wanted to fill out an E. I request from FEMA I have about 18 of them backed up. So They're they're not hard, but they you just gotta see through good questions Just can you give us a quick update? Um, unless it's an executive session issue on how you're, um Doing with recruiting for Kim's position I could yeah, it might be a good one based on where we're at with that process to kind of hang there This would be talking about people potentially Okay, then the next one is to go into executive We have to find that we need to Yeah, just the contract piece that we want to touch base on you know, there's new developments is a two two parter So we can do it as easy as somebody can move number one and then somebody can move number two Minutes will reflect that for sure. I will make a motion that we go into executive session for the purpose of discussing contract issues the premature Disclosure of which could put the town That's risk. So your first motion will be the finding that it's necessary to prudent and the premature and then the second one will be to enter Oh Yeah, okay, I'll um I'll make a motion that we go into That we find it prudent we find it prudent. We're finding it necessary first and then we'll make a motion to go in Just say you move you move number one. Yeah, okay. I move number one, which I thought is what I just did the next one, right? And then uh, we have a motion do we have a second? I'll second all those in favor. All right opposed Okay, now you can move us into executive session. I would move that we go into executive Second all those in favor I Those motion carries and we are off