 Hey everybody welcome back to the Linuxcast. I'm your host Matthew Weber. I'm joined by Tyler Kelly. How are you doing? Doing good. All right, so this is the Linuxcast. We talk about Linux oddly enough. It's in the title So what have you been doing this week in Linux Tyler? well this week has been a testing the Quadro before I leave it sort of week I Ordered a card. I ordered a 280 R9 280 And the seller backed out which that was Awesome because I got it at too good of a deal. I think they realized that they were selling it for way too way too low But now I got a 7950 on the way and so I've just been testing out my quadro just Sing what it can handle and what it can't and it's it's oddly surprised me the stuff that it can handle Like left for dead I can play at some pretty decent settings as long as it's 720p You know, I can play it pretty good and for how low end of a card it is and it being a quadro It's surprised me just what it can do Yeah, I honestly never actually heard of the 7950 yet. When did that come out? I believe 2012 and it still actually performs Way better than the K4000 does I'm pretty excited to get it because I'll be able to play almost any game I want 1080p medium settings. So Yeah, that's cool. And I got it for $75. So in this graphics card market steal of a deal Yeah, I just saw the one I'm looking at right now on eBay that I just showed on camera is the is 110 on eBay So you get looks like you did a good a pretty good deal So I've been so I did actually the video that I will post today on the channel is all about X-Mone ads So that's what I've been dealing with the last two weeks This is the last I'll be talking about it Let's just say that I'm done with X-Mone ad and you should watch the video that I posted today because I went on for about Good 20 minutes just ranting about it. So it's it's good the other thing that I've been doing is Looking more awesome way to manager. That's the next one. I'm going to be installing and playing around with so We're gonna be giving that a try I did a stream on it It was actually I think it was my first stream That I did on awesome window manager and I wasn't impressed with the law So I'm interesting to give that a you know a better longer term try. So that's basically what I've been doing Honestly, most of my time this week has been spent Messing around with Caden live because I'm back on Caden live and the more I use it the more. It's kind of terrible Yeah, I still haven't given that all of one that you said I was just about to ask that I haven't done it yet Someday I keep forgetting well, I I know I know the alpha thing is Is a big push like yeah Turn turn away for most people Um, but if you give it a shot it is so surprisingly good Like man, if it was just a beta like I can deal with a beta software Alpha software is like this means you just started this yesterday, right? I mean Like you're a you're a high school kid in the basement doing his first programming project and that's what this is, right? So this scares the crap out of me Uh, which I totally understand. Um, now Before we completely leave x-mo net I I gotta ask so you did get x-mo bar working, correct? I did yes, uh I don't know what I was doing wrong. So what I ended up doing so Arco linux the the guy who does arco linux has like 2000 videos on Arco linux on his youtube channel And one of those is how to switch from poly bar to x-mo bar in arco linux using the arco linux x-mo x-mo net iso Which is what i'm using And that worked it was basically just switching out two packages and Hitting this they have like a batch script alias called skill and basically what that does is take your old configuration file shove it off into a backup file and completely rewrite it the whole config file Uh, so I did that Uh, and it worked and I stayed on x-mo bar for three four hours After that because I looked at the I'd seen the x-mo bar c file before Uh, but because it wasn't working. I didn't like actually go through it like Figure out how to you know, configure it out stuff and once I got You know up and running I looked at it was like I don't have the patience for this shit So I immediately put my old configuration file back in and started using poly bargains and that's what I was doing for the last I don't know four or five days. We just used poly bar and it works, you know, poly bar is great It seems to work fine in x-mo net uh Honestly, it was the scratch pads thing in x-mo net that pushed me over the top and it has got me to leave no, so I don't understand haskell Like like I know when I post that video there's going to be somebody in the comments to the little x-mo net is great You're just too stupid to understand it and I 100 percent agree with that Like I don't I understand x-mo net is perfectly fine. Uh, I don't particularly think that the documentation is as good as everybody think it is because it doesn't seem to apply to every situation um Like because there's multiple ways of doing things in haskell and if you do things one certain way The documentation might not work for you. So, uh, that's My biggest I'm just probably my biggest problem because like I understand the idea that uh, you know, I'm not I don't know these things right, but I want the ability to learn them And the fact that it seems to be impossible to learn them because of this quirk of the way haskell works Um, and it's possible that that's still a misunderstanding in my part It could be that the documentation works fine, and I'm still just a dumbass 100 possibility of that, uh, but I just couldn't get past it. So, um, yeah And I've had plenty of problems with like with haskell and learning x-mo net Like that's one of the things I appreciate Like I know there are people out there that will say exactly what you're saying But I mean when it comes to something like q-tile, you don't run into those issues like You're not gonna set up your config in a different way or just the documentation for q-tile Needs to apply differently or Anything it's just you know if you need to add a widget that that's how you add a widget that and all right So there are two window managers out there that have the best documentation ever i3 and q-tile those the documentation for those Is fantastic. It's the best you'll ever see. I think i3 is slightly better Because it's more for the it's it's written for the every man like it's written in language. You can understand q-tile is much more technical, but you can still understand it, you know the x-mo net stuff is not only all over the place, but it's uh It's not well Detailed it just says like here do these things in this and it'll work like no It didn't work, you know, it's it's dumb. It's it doesn't make any sense to me and you know, whatever But you know, but you're right about the q-tile thing. I love q-tile and I'm gonna reinstall it on this machine eventually. I I just um I have my problems with the workspaces and somebody's even offered to take my configuration file and I saw that Make it work with more than nine workspaces. So I will eventually get around to doing that But right now I don't have q-tile installed right right now. I have x-mo net dwm it awesome so That's one of the things that I do appreciate Like I feel like q-tile is the only community where you have people that will like not just Help you but like somebody will will literally be like, hey, I will rewrite your config for you just to make something work Like yeah Um and and then in x-mo net you have people are perfectly willing to explain things to you But if you don't understand what they're explaining like I don't understand what you're talking about You might as well be talking latin. I don't know any words in latin like none Oh, I know I know one phrasing lamb e pluribus. You know, is that the thing that's on the back of the dollar or whatever I don't know. I think so Like I don't know. That's I know I know a pig latin, but that's uh, that's just because it's made up words So All right, uh, let's move into the the contact information. I did shorten this section up a bit It's a work in progress So you can follow us on twitter at the linux cast subscribe at the linux cast.org email linuxcast at the gmail.com patreon patreon.com slash linux cast thanks to all of our Supporters follow zany on odyssey the official zany. He's zany by the way. He's also tyler I go by multiple names. He has multiple personalities is what he's got You can also follow him on youtube the link will be in the video description below or in the The show notes if you're listening to this via audio You can also subscribe to us on youtube at the youtube at youtube.com slash linux cast That's this is a little bit shorter. I took out I took out my twitter I took out the facebook because fuck facebook I mean, literally, I think I have like six likes on facebook because If you're in the linux community You probably don't want to be on facebook. I'm on facebook and um I'm a part of some groups that I can't just leave behind. So that's the reason why I'm selling facebook anyways Yeah, I feel like facebook is one of those platforms where linux people are like, uh, I don't find my linux channels there No, um, yeah, they the thing is though if you are on facebook, there are a few linux groups that are really good Really? Yeah, like, um, if you can ignore the rest of the political nonsense that's on facebook, which is The majority of the places There are linux groups out there that are in there that are really good. Um I mean really active lots of helping and stuff like that. It's basically like reddit But without the moderation because there's no moderation Um, I I'm sure I'm sure there are is moderation, but they're not like, you know, whatever front and center Yeah, anyway, so every each and every week, uh Tyler and I pick a news link and this week is no exception. So tyler. What is your news link? My news link is news link. My news link is uh, the new ubuntu touch ota um that Now has nfc support Um, at least they're testing it as far as I know, it's not Um, you know, it's not just flat out nfc just works on Every device. Um, I think they're still it's still in the testing phase Um, but that being said, I think this highlights, um an interesting topic that There could be some pretty cool like features that you just don't expect for linux phones to have like nfc It's just something I hadn't thought of Like coming to a linux phone It it was like even though to this day, I don't I mean, I I use nfc for some things Like, you know, maybe the odd time out that I actually like use nfc to swipe a card at a At a gas station or something, but you know, I don't really use nfc that much at all But interesting feature. I just didn't think would make it to a to a linux phone, especially soon It just hadn't crossed my mind. That's my question is that It's weird that they're worried about adding new features when they I'd worry about making it fast first, you know Focus on performance first and then slowly add in features that you need now I understand nfc is probably one of those things that a lot of people request, but I'll be a hundred percent honest with you. I don't think I've ever used nfc not a single time Um, so you've never used like, um, like, um, what is it called google pay or whatever? No, no You actually have to have money in order to use google pay I use cash, I mean And I mean just only just recently did I get a like a savings account again because I for years I just didn't want money in the bank or have money in the bank You don't remember you go to college the college takes all of your money Yeah So it's because it's just been recently that I've actually had disposable income again. So um No, I've never used google pay and I don't know if I I don't know if I want to it's um It feels like like it's like an added layer that I don't really need because like my card or whatever has Tap to pay on it So it's not gonna be adding any extra thing and it's not as if I'm gonna go out of the house without my wallet So I'm gonna have my credit card with me Um, because you can't I mean you had to have your wallet You have to have your id on so you can't just have a copy of your right Excuse me offer. I don't have my id on me, but I have a picture of it Yeah, you know that's gonna work really well. So I mean it's not like I said, I'm gonna have my card with me Anyway, so why do I have to set up this extra thing that's also going to have all of my Social security information and stuff like that. So yeah, the way I use it. I have my id like I'm probably the the weird person here, but so As far as I know it the credit cards add added tap to pay to kill You know google pay and apple pay So that you know, they could still compete That being said I hopped on google pay when it was like new new thing where you could The gas station near me was just like it had been updated and Had a refresh so they actually had them so I used it. I jumped on early But I I understand that almost no one does and it's also Not a secure way of using your card at all. Well, all right, so I think I saw I went I was in mcdonald the line Mcdrive through at mcdonald's I go a couple weeks ago And I think for the first time I saw somebody use google or apple pay like in front of me They handed the guy their phone like yeah, first of all, okay Um, let's just talk about this thing. This thing cost me a thousand dollars I'm gonna hand this to the guy making minimum wage at mcdonald's Who is also prone to dropping change, right? He can't even hand me my pennies without dropping them on the ground You want me to hand him a thousand dollar photo you out of your fucking mind. No, it's not going to happen Um, now I understand supposedly Uh, they're supposed to like put the machine out the window and have you tap and stuff Like that's the way but that's not the way this happened. This this person actually handed them their phone and he didn't have it Like first of all you have to have your phone unlocked to do that Okay, yes, you do so that means you're handing them your authenticated phone that has all of your data on an outgranted They're not going to be holding under that phone for a long time But these things have nfc on them. What if they have a scanner in their pocket? They just swipe and have all your data Um, so no, uh, that's um now I said I understand that's not how it's supposed to work But it still freaks me the fuck out quite It's not something I like to think about because it's you know, really freaking scary but On your phone you have bit ward and it has all of your Your passwords and stuff and it's all authenticated with your fingerprint. So if they somehow bypass that they have everything Uh, and well, I mean if they stole everything I add it's not that big a deal because I don't have that much to steal There's obviously they get to steal from much more lucrative people, but it's still kind of you know, I'm in the same boat, right? Yeah, it's just weird. Um, and I I mean we kind of meandered from the subject again But the the whole ubuntu touch thing I'm still I'm not there on linux on mobile yet Um, and we talked about this last week. It's just it's moving Way too slow and I obviously they have to move slow because there's like five people working on it I'm sure there's more people in that but I mean it's Might as well be five people compared to the 90 000 people that you know, apple has you know They uh, you know, it's just a small team So that so they have to move slow But it's in a in the marketplace where this stuff moves You know apple releases a new iphone every single year and google has a new pixel and all these things They just move move and move move It can't move this slow It's just never gonna be okay Um, it'd be nice if they could figure out how to get the community more interested in it So because there are developed. I mean there are millions of developers in the linux ecosystem If they could get some more of those people to focus on Uh, you know developing I think the biggest issue is that nobody agrees what the operating system should be So we have the same thing we had in the linux. That's just we have you know ubuntu and we have plasma and we have You know, you know five different desktop environments and distributions and stuff and That's just splitting the effort when all those people should be just working on one thing that works At least until you get that one thing worked and then you can split off and be fragmented at the l you want but until you know it works Because I I think what a lot of people appreciate about linux on the desktop having having choice So whether you Whether you think it's beneficial to have so much choice or not It's not necessarily a all-around bad thing to have choice on the desktop but that straight up kills linux on the phone because No one like no one really when it comes to android or ios cares Too much about the customer Customizability of the phone or how it looks might care a little bit between the differences between the two But it's not that big of a deal on android like whether your phone's running plasma or Ganome really doesn't matter because all you want is the apps like that. That's it Yeah, apps are all that matters and performance obviously has to be you know fast enough Well that and I'm obviously the camera. I mean the That's the thing is that they're not even thinking right now about the camera, right? Yeah And that has to be good most people nowadays are like photographers with their phones. So yeah, you need it Right and you don't want to crap a camera On this thing that you carry around because it's the only camera you have um, all right, so in a related note mine was also related so um Risk five is going to hand out a thousand risk five dev boards to developers and hopes hoping to get people that more focus on building open source applications for The risk five platform. So if you don't know what risk five is basically it's an open source standard for creating chips. So it's um It's like arm is a is a risk five board And it's based on this standard now The risk five stuff is completely open source as far as I can understand now. We gotta remember. I'm not a chip designer I have I only know what I can read so Um, uh, it's it is very complex but it's a Another effort to get more and more people to develop for these low powered boards like the raspberry pi and You know, the there's one that starts with an a You know, there's like a whole bunch of these like uh small single purpose mostly boards that you You know computers that you can use and that's what risk five is trying to do get more people to focus on developing Stuff for that and also improving the performance of the chips. So, uh, the reason why I said this was connected to the phones is because This is something that the phone should do Like they should just say hey, you want to want it? Here's a here's a thousand or 10,000 of these phones and you're a developer have one of these things Develop an app for it. You know needs you to develop for it. Take it like we can't pay you like we don't have any Money, uh, but we do have this crap load of phones um Even if the phones weren't like uh, like the prism or the Whatever the the actual phones are like if they just had like a galaxy s8 or something like that They bought off from ebay that for 40 dollars or whatever. They just had a whole box of these things You know ship those out with the operating systems on Yeah, I mean that would make sense to me and that you know, I understand that stuff requires resources and stuff, but uh And it it just seems like that's something to do instead What they've done is they've had these like the pine phone or whatever Is the cheapest version the leaping five is the other one, right? And that one was like really freaking expensive Yeah, it was like five six hundred bucks. Yeah, like developers aren't going to do that for an untested platform So at least with the pine phone like it's like, you know, it's 200 bucks or whatever uh You might get a developer or two that have that kind of money that can just Buy it then but still I think you'd be better off saying you want it Here's a thousand of these things, you know, if you want one in your developer, whatever have at it Yeah, see I think risk risk five knows what they're doing because the linux phone market doesn't seem to really understand the fact that The the devs that are going to develop for it. Anyway Oh, it there's no financial incentive It's not like someone who's going to come over and make an app for one of the, you know, pine phone or Lieber and five and make a killing like that's The financial incentive is not there. So the financial Loss that they have to take to even develop for the platform makes no sense whatsoever um I and the thing about risk five that I I wish more people were talking about is just I I think risk five has a lot more potential like future wise than x86 Armed, I mean arm is essentially risk five just proprietary You know implementation of risk five so um Like I mean, I think risk five has a has a great future ahead of it and I feel like most likely The industry knows it too because risk five is actually backed by a ton of huge corporations So like microsoft and google and amazon all these places are Have invested heavily in into risk five. So at least as far as I know I might miss be remiss miss remembering that but I see I seem to remember reading that somewhere where they've been Backed by some corporations. Um, so That's the that's the news. Um Sorry, I lost my train of thought there for like five seconds. So, um Moving on to the main topic. So this is a good one If you're a new user What distribution should you use should you use mint or you should you use a boot? These are the two distributions that are most widely proclaimed to be the new user distros um and Most people I think are probably going to say a boot to because it's the most popular So I'm very interesting to know tyler. What's your thoughts on which is the best distro for nubes? um my take on this Probably will be controversial, but so you're Let's say you're a complete new user map. You've you've never used linux. You've never touched it in your life I hand you a copy of linux mint You install it like I walk you through it. You install it. No problem I mean granted you could probably install it on yourself without a problem even not using linux before But I walk you through it. You have a brand new linux mint install and you want to install Let's just say discord because you use discord already. It's something you're familiar with When you go to install it What are all the tutorials? going to Say that you're using to walk you through installing it I'm assuming that there would be something like at right Well almost every tutorial that you find will will walk you through ubuntu Assume that you're using ubuntu and the install like the the tutorial It's the same like, you know because linux mint is essentially based off of ubuntu Your the install is going to be the exactly the same process But as a new user complete new user if I wasn't there to talk to you and tell you that yeah, that's the same thing That's that's what you need to follow It's going to be confusing. So mine is always just ubuntu for the complete new user It knows nothing. Oh, I would disagree on something. Yes. It's gonna be good So my answer is mint so This is going to be surprising for anybody who knows me because I don't like linux mint at all Like I can't stand their developers most of the time and I I don't really care for The fact that it even exists. I think personally The last thing we need is another ubuntu based distro. We have 12,000 of them. We don't really need them That's just my opinion. It's Not any something anybody agrees with But and after hearing that opinion, I am more interested to hear how you think linux mint is better Okay, but the thing is when you are a new user the thing that you So I got I we got in trouble last week for saying that all old people don't like change First of all, I'm sorry about that generalization, but If you're so I'm gonna make on that. No, I'm gonna make another generalization If you're a new user, you probably don't want something that looks completely different and If you're going to switch to linux, you're gonna want something that looks at least somewhat the same and Ubuntu doesn't offer that they look Ubuntu and their Weirdness looks nothing like windows Has big icons along the side and there's nothing wrong with it. It's not as if it's unintuitive to use And my dad seems to be doing just fine with it But if you're switching you probably want something that looks like windows and cinnamon looks like windows Um, so that's my argument for why I think mint is better now You do make a good point on the tutorials thing because there's not I don't there are Mint tutorials out there But you're right that there are the vast majority of stuff on the internet If you're looking on how to do something point assumes you're using your ubuntu because Ubuntu is so popular Yeah, uh that I mean that's disappointing but that is the way it is but I personally think that The mass majority so So let's just pause the scenario for the most part. I think if you're a true linux new user You probably didn't install linux yourself. You probably had somebody do it for you or your computer came with it If that's the case those people probably installed the software that you want for you So they've installed your browser. You've probably told them you want discord or whatever Chances are I mean in this scenario That's probably happened for you or you have somebody that can do it for you So that means they're not going to be facing the problem that you have positive, you know Because they're not going once their software is on there the three apps that they use They're never going to install another thing in their entire lives And that's that's the way most computer users again. I'm getting in trouble with generating generalizations But chances are most normies Once they have the three or four apps that they use they'll never install anything else on purpose every once in a while They'll do something accidentally But they're never going to install anything more. So that means that the Look and feel and how things actually work is more important than actually how they install software and they As Well working as well As intuitive as ubuntu is it's not the same as windows One of the things that is really different obviously is the start menu and the launch menu and stuff but More it's like the file manager is Completely completely different right and nautilus For those of you who's used nautilus. I don't understand you Like nautilus nautilus is not a good file manager like at all now It's better than it used to be it used to be the slowest thing this side of slow Uh, but it's and it's way it's way faster. I mean it's just super fast now And it's usable for most people But it's not Good And yeah, if if you're comparing it to something like windows explorer, which is also not good I suppose then those things go together but um in terms of functionality and stuff something like kaha or thunar or nemo all have More intuitive interfaces for people who have used windows explorer before They also have Better user interfaces and stuff that are in terms of actually looking like What you know windows explorer does so File manager is a big thing for me because like I tried to switch my mother over to a linux for the longest time and the biggest problem for Either one of these distros is that the file picker is terrible And there's no consistency in file picking on linux at all So if you're using a g2k app sometimes you'll get nautilus sometimes you'll get some Thing that you have no clue what it is, but it's a g2k thing sometimes if you're using a cute app you'll get the It's probably like an offshoot or a plug-in of dolphin or whatever. It looks horrible I mean It's especially if you're not like if you're not like for example If you use katin live on a system that just has g2k stuff installed the file picker looks like it's from 1998 It's horrible and that's just a system-wide problem with linux the the File picker would for whatever reason is something that they just said cannot stand You know choose a standard now personally as a as a nerd. I would love just to say you know what We can't decide on this so you get to choose what you want the file picker to be Yes, that'd be so good because you know what i'm going to choose ranger I'm going to choose nnn because that's what I want to do But it'd be so nice to be able to say you want what I only have thunar on my system You stunar for the pile file picker But they don't do that. No, of course not that'd be too simple. So I went off into the weeds there, but Yeah, I think that meant is the the choice here and it almost has to be I mean I disagree but Like I mean it's for a completely different reason I I think ubuntu is it's just the easiest just Not not necessarily the easiest, but I think ubuntu wins in I don't know the accessibility of installing your own software afterwards because I I don't know I've just found that people Even though they rarely ever install software The only times I've really ever had a problem with somebody using a new linux system is when they Go to install something and they follow a tutorial that lays it out ubuntu wise, but they are using something different Um, and just don't know better. Yeah I I do agree with you that that use case is not Popular that's not that's not the majority of people um, but that's why I just default to ubuntu because If you're going to install something and I can't help you at the very least the tutorial that you find Most likely is assuming that you're using it. I think that we're Too old to be having this conversation in not in terms of our age but in terms of the amount of time we've used linux because Probably when we started using linux, it was very popular and almost necessary It was almost necessary to go on the internet to find a tutorial to install something when you you wanted to install something you'd have to go to, uh Uh Some website that has a ppa link on it and you have to add a ppa and the stuff like that that's not the way Most people are going to be doing it from now on because that was before Really the ad app store was even a thing, right? I mean, you know, software was around but nobody used it was horrible Uh, and I'm personally I still think it's horrible, but whatever um Most people when they want to install something if let's just say you're right and people do install software more than I think they do They're not going to be going to a website to find the ppa. They're not going to know what a ppa is They're just going to open up the software center and look and see if it's there if it's not there They're just going to assume it doesn't exist Um, yeah, so they're going to go to you know gum software search for discord They're going to hit the install button because they're used to doing that on their phones Uh, and that's how they'll do it. They don't need a tutorial You know and but but they might not have even thought of it, but flat hub Yeah, it's it's now in both as as far as I don't know about linux mint But I know in ubuntu you can just go in there And I think you have to press one button and then you have access to everything that flat hub has Yeah, so that you don't even have to go somewhere else adding in the whole snaps and flat packs thing is going to destroy both of our Arguments because that's just a whole another mess on top of everything and it just adds a whole think complexity But I guarantee you and you install ubuntu on a new system And you tell them to install something they're not going to have any idea how it works They're just going to install it. So if flat hubs aren't enabled by default. They'll never know that flat hubs are an option They're just going to install whatever they can install if A piece of software is not there. They're just going to assume that it doesn't exist Um, and that's just you know the way it is. Um Mint does have a problem. So the biggest hole in my argument for linux mint is Their app store isn't as good As the snap store is on ubuntu Because they don't support snaps out of the box. They support Repositories, you know, um I'm not even sure if they support flat hub out of the box. I'm not sure I can't even remember Um, but it doesn't really matter. Whatever their software center is. It's not as good as the Ubuntu one or at least it wasn't one last time I I checked So it might be that they use the same thing as ubuntu now, but I know they don't support snaps Um out of the box. So, uh, how again, I don't know whether or not that impacts their Uh, software availability or whatever because really that's going to be the thing that comes down for you because if The software availability is poor, then they're going to be then they're going to be searching for those tutorials online and run into the problem You were talking about the real I just keep coming back to the point Let's just say I'm right in the fact that they uh A new pool install software from the app store first and they can figure that out. They don't need a tutorial Um But on ubuntu they may never find the software center because it looks completely different than uh, then You know windows. Um, yeah Now it's not really a good argument because the software icon is in the dock by default. So, I mean, it's there It's not as if it's some hidden thing, but Your point still stands it's different like the UI is not like windows. It's not It's not something that you're familiar with I could go ask my dad Because he's using ubuntu right now. He's using the latest release of ubuntu I would almost guarantee that he's never opened app drawer. He may not even know it's there Because all he opens up is chrome like I installed chrome form He opens up his computer clicks the chrome icon and does his puzzles. That's all he does on his computer Now he's obviously not the most complicated of computer users But I would guarantee that that's probably the most Use that most Linux new people will that aren't nerds Will be doing they're gonna they're gonna want their browser. They're gonna want their email and maybe a chat client I say maybe a chat client because probably they don't want a chat client either because They're new. I mean, yeah, we also have to consider Because we're taking this in in in one way like as in a noob is also a Luddite and I don't think that's a good Uh correlation because this is because chances are if you've decided to use Linux You have a little bit of nerd in you Right, so you're gonna be experimenting on some things like if you've chosen to Like not like I installed Ubuntu on my dad's computer. He I did that because he hates updates. He doesn't care what he uses He doesn't even know what Ubuntu is. He knows it's Linux probably, but he doesn't know what He'd probably say it wrong He pronounced it wrong. Um, but the the point is If you've chosen to use Linux You've chosen to install on your computer You probably have some nerd in you because you know how to burn an ISO. You know how to get past UEFI all these things so The question I have is for that user the one that has some technical expertise So they're not going to care about being able to go through and find a tutorial if they don't know something So they have some kind of technical expertise Which distribution then is going to be the best one between Ubuntu and in mint And my argument then if they have some technical know-how I'm gonna say uh KDE the kubu kubu and two is actually the the proper answer here because Even though that's not one there wasn't one of the options I understand I think it wasn't one of the options, but um GNOME is ugly and they'll you'll be unhappy with GNOME for a long time um and I think cinnamon is a good like middle ground between GNOME and KDE because it has a lot of katies customizability But also runs on g2k. So things are going to look a little bit better out of the box at least So cinnamon might be the best answer for those type of people because it gives them the ability to um You know customize stuff and tweak stuff and get into the nerdy kind of stuff of stuff But it's not so technically complicated that like kde would be so I guess I've kind of talked myself into Linux met being the answer and in that scenario of the Technical minded person switching over and the choice between ubuntu and linux mint. I mean, I would agree linux mint um Not just because it's gtk base um or cinnamon, but It just overall if you're if you've got more technical knowhow I I feel like linux mint is just more interesting than ubuntu because there's a lot of a If you're at all technically minded when you start using ubuntu. There's just a lot that you Yeah, you can change but you know, it's clear that GNOME's not really I don't know to me. GNOME is not one of those things. Yeah, you can customize it But once you start customizing it a lot you might as well get something else Exactly like it's clear that it's not meant to be customized heavily so yeah, that's that's the biggest problem I have with you know is that They don't want you to customize it. They're like They do have the extensions app now. So that's a little bit better But the way you install extension extensions is still the stupidest thing and I mean Put those extend. I mean you have a store put the extensions in the store Don't put them on some random website that you have to use google define And then you have to install this stupid extension in your browser in order to do this That's the dumbest ui design in the history of udi designs. It just does not work I'm I mean it works, but it's dumb um Random that's that's a lot of my problems with ubuntu like me giving ubuntu to To not just new users, but you know new to linux users They know what's going on when you start customizing ubuntu. Um, I mean really popo s anything gnom based it's You're it's not necessarily that because I mean the argument that a lot of people on the gnomes side make is you know There's the extensions. Yes, it can be customized. It's obviously meant to be customized But it's so much stuff doesn't work right when you have heavy Customizations, so it doesn't I don't know it doesn't feel right Well that despite the fact that gnomes hasn't changed all that much in the last 10 years Those extensions break all the time because they're always making changes on the bottom like For the longest time it almost felt like the people who designed gnom were very Against extensions existing at all because they deliberately break things They deliberately changed things so that extensions would break now They seem to have gotten over that once they introduced the extensions app Uh, but still things like even now the most popular extension is Uh dash to dock right and it won't work and get on 40 because they broke it right I mean you can understand the reason why it's broken because they've changed the ui now for the first time in forever But still that stuff happens all the time. Um And this is me kind of off topic, but if you're coming from mac and moving on to linux Really then and elementary os kind of enters the conversation a little bit and I I just used elementary os 6 for the first time And it reminded me of everything I dislike about elementary os because as much as gnomes H you customizing things elementary s is a hundred times worse But granted granted if you're coming from mac you're used to it So you can't customize granted you can customize a mac a whole lot more than you used to be able to customize Elementary os because they didn't have a dark mode, but that's at least solved um Finally just when we're talking about the customizability of you know It made me think well You know if you really want something that's for new users and you don't want them to tweak anything Uh, install elementary os because at least at one point you couldn't even install a ppa Like it would give you an error like you had to find a work around to get the ppa doesn't even work I don't know if that's still the case. I have no clue. Uh, I think I think you can add ppa's now I think I remember them Changing that but still at one point There was no point in ever even opening a terminal because there was nothing you could do in it So and they support flat out of the box. They have a really good, uh, you know app library and uh the app store or whatever app center So for a new user, maybe elementary os is Is the answer if if you didn't like the first two things if you didn't like Ubuntu or mint Maybe elementary os is the the the option for new users because Or at least the non-technical user because it's It maybe it doesn't look like windows But people pretty much know what how mac works, right? So maybe that's an option Uh, personally for me, I would prefer the fewer people used elementary os the better just I I feel like a horrible person saying that because those people work really hard and they have a really really good ideas and the dark mode and it is beautiful and Granted it is just the dark mode at a weight. Uh, it's all it is. I mean, I think they've This is like I said, this is horrible to say Um, but they've made such a big deal over this dark mode When all they've done really is take the dark mode from another theme to implement Now obviously there's more technical things that they've done underneath that They've you know made it system-wide they've gone through and Tried to get their apps to look better and had it not be so hacky as actually using a theme But that being said they just it's just another thing. Um, It's not as if you've scaled the mountain and made linux the perfect thing ever It's just a thing calm the fuck down. It's okay So yeah, I think that is the elementary like Mindset is everything they do is it's like the the apple like we're or the apple mindset of we're going to Make the design top the top priority of the entire thing. So Like even something that is very simple like a theme has to be taken to the most extreme of detail ensuring that it matches everywhere and Nothing can look hacky at all which I do appreciate but then also I do agree with you. It's not a good thing for The entirety of linux it like that's sort of the thing about elementary os if you're inside the the elementary os bubble it's really awesome like It's great, but nothing from that bubble benefits the bigger linux community. So It's it's like yeah, you're often your own little bubble of linux You don't really get anything from the bigger linux community and nothing that you do in there like Sure elementary os apps work off of elementary os But they I mean you've said this before and I completely agree with it They look like elementary os apps on anything else that you've run. Yeah, so It's a thing. It's definitely a thing, right? So, um I I think we've come to the the the conclusion that what what she used depends on how much technical know-how you have, right? um, because maybe you're right, maybe I do kind of agree with you that ubuntu for someone who's completely New to linux and has no technical know-how Ubuntu is probably the answer And for the reason you've said Uh I still think for the most part that the ui is more important um But maybe the solution then is Hey ubuntu Change your freaking ui Your ui is really old bro. It's you need to change this stuff adopt cinnamon or adopt katie Personally, I would I really had wished that when they changed from a unity they would have chosen katie because Uh, I've always been a katie fanboy um but as an I understand why they chose kanom because you have a lot of new users come to ubuntu and I don't know if you want to Have a muse katie. There's just so many places. They can get lost. It's like letting your kid go in them like a Go into sears you used to go to sears and these sears department stores were you know the size of like 12 football fields And they had these little micro stores in the inside and if you're like really kid That's like christmas come early because you're gonna get lost in there garen fucking to eat And uh, that's what katie is Except for katie still in business But you go into katie you're gonna get lost because there's just so many settings I mean the settings app alone is like a gigabyte worth of stuff. You know, that's not true But I mean it feels like it. Um, yeah, so I I feel like I do agree with you a bunch who could do a lot better if they went with katie and just maybe a They did their own polished version of katie like where they cleaned up some things or You know did something unique Yeah, the option might be cinnamon because like I don't really care for cinnamon But cinnamon is like the cinnamon or xfc. I mean xfc is too Uh outdated in terms of like development stuff is too slow in terms of movement, but Cinnamon is not right. So cinnamon has a ton of modern features. It's built on g2k3 You know, it has all this customization and stuff that you can do to it, but it's also very simple So cinnamon might be the answer but on ubuntu So like there's a there's an ubuntu spin of cinnamon or whatever is like whatever they call cinnamon ubuntu Um, that might be the best place for ubuntu to go. I don't think that it's ever going to happen Uh, personally, I think they're on gunon mouth forever. Um, and that's just unfortunately that's just depressing to think about um, because all right, so We should make this a topic on another on another show But what do you think just real quick? What do you think the chances are of the ubuntu ui changing to adapt to what gunon 40 did? Do you think that they're gonna adopt any of the gunon 40 ui elements? No Yeah, me either They might they might take like the workspace thing where you know that like they I mean god the workspace instead of the stuff along the side. They might have the vertical one now. They might do that Um, maybe maybe but I but it's almost a guarantee that that those icons there along the side Those things are there to stay forever and they're never going to change them now. They might change the icons like design wise, but that's Doc is going to stay there forever and ever and I'm so it's just I'm gonna I'm gonna make a video about this, but it's so outdated. They come on You can be an entrenched you can be entrenched in a design. That's okay, but not for 15 years That design has been around since 2011 so it's not been 15 years, but it's been 10 years But still 10 years of the same design now they've changed the theme But even that even the changing of the theme took them forever to decide to do Um, and now we're on yaru yaru, which I like yaru. It's a good thing Uh, but I'm gonna be sick of yaru in about 10 minutes I'm one of us something different. I don't know. This is this is me and my ad stuff I want things to change a lot like I like new things. I like to try new things. So That's completely antithetical to what a new user wants. They want things to look the same all the time. So My idea of wanting things to change you know a lot is not a great thing, but Still I think that there's a middle ground between me wanting something to change every release and not changing for 10 years Yeah, yeah Every long-term release being almost a clone of the last one visually is not I don't know. I don't see that as progress. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it They have a grand opportunity I just a grand opportunity when they switched away from a book from unity to change things Like that was their one shot because things were going to change whether they liked it or not because it's you know And unity was different. They had that opportunity like everybody knew when they abandoned unity they were going to make a change Uh, and they could have made UI changes at that point and everybody would have bitched about it like they did with genome 2 They would have they would have had a ton of detractors, but that was their opportunity But they chose not to do that they chose to keep the same and That has buried them In that UI for the rest of eternity And and that's they make another similar change to a different desktop environment I mean because If they do that then they can make a change again because people will be expecting it Now if they made a change to something significantly different, they'd have so many people up in arms about it Yeah, which I don't understand. I mean come on man It's old You need something it's old We oh, we definitely definitely do right? Yeah, we we could definitely go on for an entire podcast about that We will do that. All right. Let's go ahead and move on to uh apps of the week. So Uh Tyler what was your app of the week? My app of the week was lsd Not the drug the fantastic terminal app Or like program most people I feel like if you you know If you're familiar enough with the terminal to know uh bash aliases and have them set up you most likely Are are using this but just for those out there who haven't heard of it or haven't used it before It is a fantastic way of um just giving your terminal a little bit more bling when you're lsing around uh in it So do you use uh lsd or ls deluxe? I don't I use exa Ah, it's the exa does basically the same thing but it um I don't it's not written in rust. I Maybe it's written in rust. I actually don't know what he says written in so I can't really say I just know that that's what I use that. It's what I've used for Almost a year now. So yeah, I've never actually looked at lsd, but um I mean because they said say no to drugs. So I mean, this is a horrible name. Like what are they doing? Well, it's the it's the the only reason I said not the drug is when I went to go um put in the link here I actually closed out of the tab and so I went and searched on duck. Go and all it brought up was drug related stuff I'm like, no, this is not what I want. Like you don't understand the seo at all whoever did this Like you can't name something like that and expect to rank in search results. So um Yeah, we're the mouth is gonna be the only way this keeps going now granted exa is not any better In terms of naming but because really naming is freaking hard But this looks interesting and it definitely um Fits the whole mold of everything being transferred to rust So, yeah I'm not a big huge like rust is gonna take over the world person I I don't know. I I you use rust apps here and there but I have I I don't get the hype around rust right now when I want to use an application I don't use it because it's coded in a certain language. I just want the application to be good um and frankly What your ls clone is written in doesn't matter to me as long as it has cool features Um, yeah, and like that's the reason why I can't tell you what exa is written in I don't know. I don't care because it works and it Is extensible and those are the things that I care about. Um now that being said if your ls thing is written in Haskell Fuck off I don't watch I don't I will not be using your application So, um, it only goes so far apparently You write it you can write your program in whatever you want just no longer. It's not Haskell I'm gonna put that out there. All right. My pick of the week is something called splash cli now This has been around for ages and ages and ages. Um, but basically what this is is a cli uh thing that allows you to randomly set a Wallpaper from unsplash so you can just run this thing and it will download a full photo from unsplash set it as your wallpaper That's literally all it is again. I don't know what it's written in don't care Um, no j s apparently is what it's written in for those of you, you know, who care, um, but it's a term like I said Basically, it's just an unsplash terminal client. It doesn't do a ton of stuff. You just run it It sets a random wallpaper That's um Can you set it? Um, like to pick a certain resolution or Are they are downloaded in just though I believe you can go through and do scale Yeah, you can do scale and you can even select what screen so if you have multiple monitors You can go through and use it uh the dash dash screen Uh flag and tell it to you to set it to a certain monitor or set it to both monitors if you want um, it'll also there's also one for um There's a flag. So if you just Wanted to download a random wallpaper without setting it you could just do that. Um There's it has quite a few flags There's like a lot of options and a lot of stuff that you can do here like you can Do different search queries if you only wanted like the the nature ones you could go through and do a search query for that Uh, you could only you could limit it to the search things to just the unsplash featured Section So if you just wanted the the really cool ones or whatever the ones they feature You could also get the photo of the day. That's an option here as well. So there's a As simplistic as it is if you just want to use it. There are a ton of options that you can go through and use Um, so yeah, I've been using it a couple. I haven't really dealt into any of the options I just run it and have it set me a random wallpaper And actually I can can't show you Tyler, but I can show everybody else Um, this is the wallpaper that I have and I got different one slash so um Yeah, so it's just a random wallpaper Thingamajig they use is unsplash Uh, I love these neat little programs like I don't know like you just don't get these on on windows like I don't I don't know they they they exist But no one really shares them and and really gives them the attention they deserve when you use windows You don't customize anything like yeah, you might set your wallpaper um But really that just means you're going to google images Finding a wallpaper you want and click right click set as background That's as far as your interaction with customizing your computer for most people It's probably ever going to go and there's gonna be nerds out there that like I don't know if you remember this but back in the early 2000s, maybe right around the time Windows XP came out maybe maybe windows 7 they had like a star dock thing where you could go through it and give your Uh windows thing like a mac like dock And that stuff like that stuff's still around, but I mean that was the nerd thing to do, right? you know like I'm customizing windows to look completely different and Windows is kind of like genom in that way. They don't want you to do that kind of stuff So it was always very hacky um, yeah, so Uh, that's definitely something uh like the windows thing like on linux You do give a lot of these terminal stuff and not even just terminal stuff like these little mini applications because Small time developers can just go through and develop these small applications because they're doing it for fun When you're developing for windows, you're developing for money Yep, you know, I'm not now that makes all the developers on windows sound like money grabbing whores and that's not true, obviously, but um it It's very different to develop commercially because you have to have a Viable product that people will want to buy Then developing just because you want to develop something you're learning or something and that it seems like there's a wider ecosystem Stuff for links in there for windows now. That's probably not true There's probably plenty of this developer stuff going on on windows And we just don't know about it because first of all we don't use windows second of all It's just not something you search for windows and you use windows. You just Open up chrome and use chrome Yeah, so, um, what do you even do on windows people? I don't go understand I feel like nobody on windows does anything further than they're browsing and then Maybe Installing a certain piece of software to make a game perform faster like yeah, it's browsing games That's which I mean that's like the the stereotype of all stereotypes because you know stuff other stuff happens on windows And you can do pretty much everything on windows that you want to do. Um, but I don't feel like anybody does those things Yeah, it's just that's the way I feel in my mind Like there's nothing you can't do anything on windows because all you're doing is constantly shutting down and rebooting and doing updates Yeah Like now that's definitely Stereotype. All right. Uh, anyways, so that is it for us this week coming up next week I feel like I've already forgotten this. Oh does linux need antivirus? That's what we're going to be talking about. Um, I feel like I already know our answers, but we're uh, We're definitely going to talk about that. Um, so if you just make sure if you're interested in contacting us The linuxcast.org has all the stuff you need Make sure you follow tyler on youtube link in the description below. We'll see you next week See you