 Welcome to Road to Riot. I'm Joshua Bardwell, and I'm Cricket. Cricket loves to build quads. And I would say you love to build more than you love to fly, but I've seen you fly this weekend and stop, stop being so good. You stop it. I just like building them. But Cricket has brought a smorgasbord of different frames. You don't just build the same frame nine times. You brought, what do we got here? I got a Johnny. Johnny FPV. I got a Ladrub. Skyliner. Skyliner. I got a Stingy. Stingy V2. V2. Yep, V2. We got a Remix. Remix. And then Skitzo. Skitzo. And I threw in the mix. Because we have so many different frames here, and you were sitting around talking about what you liked about one versus the other. And I was like, this is a video. So let's start with the Skitzo. Skitzo Nova. Okay. So this is a supernova with the thicker arms. So this is one of the coolest things about this frame, I think, which is the arms come together, right? And of course, they're bolted on. But then it's got this kind of spiral pattern. Like a locking system somewhat in the center there, which actually works out pretty good from stopping your arms from actually turning when you hit a tree on one side, how some arms spin. That is completely eliminated. And a lot of times you'll see they'll have like, you know, two screws, right? But then you got a lot of leverage, you got a lot of torque, and you can break those screws. Quickly. Yeah. Now he hasn't, so this locking system kind of, the arms all just kind of reinforce each other. Yep. It's pretty slick. And they also did with the standoffs. Right. So the other thing that he's done, so this screw here, is that right? Yes, because all the way through the arm, through the bottom plate, and then to the standoff. Up into the standoff. So you got three screws here. And as we know from building construction, triangles are ultra strong. Yep. So we got a triangle of force here. So you broke the arm? Yes. But you have not nothing that's ever been torn up away from the center. Nice. Which most frames, a lot of frames do, but I guess we'll get to that as we work on right now a lot. What else stands out for you about this frame? This frame, I like that he actually made it so that you can get as little or as much camera tilt as you want out of it. A lot of the new frames or different frames, which we'll get to later as well, don't allow you to get zero, or even if you want to do negative five or whatever you want to out of the frame, where this one you can. And that's one thing I like. Skitzo, we did the episode where we flew each other's quads in Atlanta. You were there for that. Skitzo flies with a relatively low up tilt, and so do you, about 15 degrees of up tilt. That's about 15 now. I was flying zero at one point, so this was perfect to actually be able to get zero out of it. A lot of frames we'll assume you're going to want at least like 15, 20 degrees, and they just won't even cut the carbon on your leg. What are you thinking guys? So if you're a juicy style pilot who flies with low up tilt, this could be for you. That could definitely be for you. And it's light. That's a very easy frame to build, very self-explanatory. One thing I'd have a little gripe about is why can't we make all the arms symmetrical so that we can have right arm for any side. Left, right, back, front. And this frame actually went for a A and B side. So you have to have an A or a B arm for your left or your right. And the reason for that, I don't know, this one is the locking mechanism. It's a locking mechanism, right? So you can't just swap an arm by flipping it up so you can't flip it over. So you have to have your spares or left arms and right arms or A or B. The good thing is that they do sell it in a kit of two. Instead of selling just one arm. But you're in the same situation, you're always in with props. You break an A arm and you only have spares of the B arm. Universal parts are easier to maintain. So easy to build, pretty standard build, slam deck standoffs. Everything fits well. It's not really cramped. You have a lot of space to do everything you need to do. Okay, let's move on. You want to do the Johnny? Let's do the Johnny. Okay, first thing I notice about this frame is that it's really kind of trim and light and small. I mean, it's just a small. It's a beautiful frame. So I noticed that it's got a similar sort of locking mechanism. There's a screw right here in the middle. The arms come into the middle and they actually have one screw that sandwiches them together in the center. So there's like a washer. Well, yeah, so it's sort of like a washer. Which means the top plate and the bottom plate compresses them together. Now from the factory, it doesn't come with the middle four screws here. Okay, so you've added these screws with the nuts. And why did you add those? Because I went through some problems with durability. Where if I were to hit a tree, like we were talking about with the Skitza, where they lock into the center and they can't move, these don't have that option. So the arm would like fold? The arm would fold quickly. So I just did, I mean, all these frames, if you see something that you need to switch or you want to change it, this is what the hobby is about. If you see something that's lacking in one area, you can add something to it to make it stronger. It's more of a, for me, it's more of like a cinematic rig. You're not going to go out and smash Bandos with it every day. But if you're looking for some nice parts. Well, that makes sense because that's the kind of flying Johnny does. I mean, not that Johnny doesn't crash. I'm sure he crashes and he blows up. It's just like anybody. But he's really very focused on cinematic. And this, this might be quite as more tuned towards cinematic than like Bandos slay. Exactly. And these frames are all signature frames. So they're built for a particular person. This is what they intended to fly like. And this is what they wanted. That's worth keeping in mind as you start thinking about getting a frame, you know, think about somebody like Jeff Orta is going to design a different frame than somebody like Johnny, just because they do different kinds of flying. I think we should talk about durability. We did that for the other frame. I think we should do it for all of them. Durability ease of maintenance. This is another one that did the have to be an A or B arm. So this is one that you can't have. And I guess you could show them the reason. Yeah. So he didn't drill out the shaft holes here, which is smart and keeps dirt out of the shaft. What's I like, but it does mean you can't just flip the arm over and have it be easier. You're into that. You have to buy two arms regardless. And then every time you break one arm, you have to buy another two arms just to make sure that you have them. But as far as these maintenance goes, I mean, it's again, it's a pretty standard filled standoffs, top plate, bottom plate, relatively few parts, relatively roomy, not a slam design. Johnny actually likes higher standoffs. I wrote, he commented once on Facebook. I've never heard that. He thinks they fly different. Speaking of a bandeau slayer. Speaking of a bandeau slayer, let's go a completely different direction than the svelte, light, delicate. This is the Skylighter. This is Drew's frame, and Drew is a bandeau slayer. Tell me the truth. Don't, don't pander to true. Give me your thoughts about this frame. I haven't broken it. That to me, it means a lot. If I haven't broken it, I've actually built all of these and flown them very hard to see what does break and what doesn't. And I can attest to that. One of Cory's signature moves is the backwards gap. So he'll fly up over something and then just drop down into it. And as you can imagine, you miss a lot. You hit some amazing ones, but you miss a lot. And you just keep, he crashed the crap out of it. So you'd say it is durable. Anything stand out to you about design? How about this front end? The front end is pretty distinct the way he's done this, kind of like a chameleon but with carbon. Exactly. That is a big point of it. I do like the way the cameras protect it. And I also like that design that they're doing with the standoffs for your flight controller. I think all the X-Hover guys are doing the rubber. So I guess it would be triple soft mount it because there's rubber grommets that go in here. We can't see that, but there's grommets in here holding the flight controller. Okay. Wow. So the whole flight control stack is stuff mounted. Have you ever had one of those because some people don't like to do that because they worry it'll break or not be strong enough? No. I use one long M3 screw that gives the whole thing. Okay. So you don't use, I see that. You don't use the individual standoffs. And this is another frame that I was telling you about where I can't get zero tilt out of it. Yeah, it's true. It's only made for like, I don't know what the lowest amount of tilt you can get out of it. But yeah, we got the standoff here. Now this helps durability and front end crashes because it helps keep the front end together, but it doesn't limit the amount of up tilt you can get. It is also sized for a big, for a big camera, which is a full size camera. I like full size cameras. You do. You don't like the micro. I don't see you're not saving that much size. Yeah. If you look at it in a lot of frames that you do use the mini or micro camera, you still have to put that plate on the back of it. Some of them. I mean, if we look at like, yeah, the Johnny, you don't have to. We look at the Johnny or the schizo, a lot of them are built. Stick the pictures better. You like minis? I like the micros. It's the same sensor. And if you get an M12 lens, it's the same lens. No, I do the M12 lens. So then at that point, it's the same package just in a smaller case. How about ease of build? He's a build. He's amazing. I wasn't a little nervous about the arms because they're thin and wide, but they are kind of wide, a little wide. The trend has been towards thinner arms and thicker arms so that if you want the durability, you go thicker. So you have less lock into the air comb. Here, let's do this guy. Now this guy takes us into the, this is the remix. Yes. Tommy's frame. And this takes us into the realm of frames that I think of as too freaking complicated to even, I mean, it's a beautiful frame. It is. It's an amazing design. What you can do, what you do is you just turn it upside down and then this part opens, it's actually unscrewed right now, isn't it? It just opens up like a hood of your car and just, you could just get a, that is so cool. I'm so impressed with that. I love it. And yet there are, if when you first go to build one of these, you dump it out of the bag and there's 800 little press nuts and parts and fiddly, that'll confuse you a little bit. How is this frame in terms of, let's start with durability, because a lot of times complicated things are not durable. Okay. Durability wise, I did have some issues with breaking a lot of arms, but they ended up switching to the five mil arms, fixed everything. So I haven't had a problem breaking arms. It is an issue. That was an issue. Yes. Other than that, he's put a lot of thought into this frame versus anybody else's frames. You can tell there was a lot of thought and a lot of this that, that went into it, where most of these frames are artificial. Nobody looks at this frame and goes, ah, this is to rip off of something. So durable, yes. Is it build? Durable, yes, but it's not the most durable frame. Not the most durable. If you're just getting into it and you're just starting to fly, this is not a frame that I would recommend to you. And I think it's got to be one of the harder to build frames in terms of like the other ones. It's just like standoffs, bottom plate, top plate. This one, you kind of need to follow Tommy's video. I've heard some of the Rotorite guys say the first time they build this, they just have to follow the video step by step. So maybe this shouldn't be your first frame. No, I've built about six of them, so they're easy to build now, but for anybody just getting into it, it'll probably be a little difficult for you. One other thing I've wondered about this frame is that with the battery on top and the battery is, and they've moved the motors up to the top, and it helps centralize the mass around the thrust lines. The CG level to spot on. But I've worried about the batteries shifting and maybe getting into the props. Have you had that happen? No. I've fly with the long battery longways. Toilet tank. Toilet tank is how it was designed to be flying. Okay. But I actually fly with it long ways. And if you haven't had a shipping, you are using the Armagrip. Best grip you can possibly get. If you don't want your battery to move, get that. Next. So this is the Stingy V2. Let's just give it a look. Now, one thing I noticed about the Stingy V2 is that it looks like he is using the stack screws that double as his arm screws. Actually, he doesn't. He doesn't? No, it was made to be 2020, 2020 by 2020. Oh. I was telling you about the recessed... I see. This is an X hover frame as well. So it was made for 2020 by 2020, but I actually used a 30 by 30 stack for it. So if you're going to use a 36 millimeter stack, you are going to use, these are the arm screws, and they're going up through the stack. Just do a long screw and get right up to the top. And there is an issue with that, that if you have to replace an arm, you've got to back that screw all the way out of your stack. But that's the only screw you actually have to take out. There is no washer or anything in between. You don't have to take this screw out. Does that not go through the arm? Yeah, okay. I meant for the flight controller. I got you. So that's something some people aren't going to dislike. I feel like that's like the minimal thing you have to worry about for the most part on that frame. Easy build? Very easy. Yep. Top deck, bottom deck, arms lock in. Strong. Yep. Super durable. You got enough room up here with the GoPro mount. What stands out about this frame for you? With the front camera, he did use the mini or the micro, but he actually made a 3D printed part in there. If you notice, it only has one bolt and top in on the each side, but you cannot move the camera one bit. It locks in at any... It locks in through the 3D mount. Now for GoPro mounting, you are going to need this 3D printed part. So it doesn't, if we look at something like the Skyliner, it has built in up till you could strap a GoPro right on there. If you have a session. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This guy's going to need some kind of a couch, a phone couch or a 3D printed part. That's not too unusual though. I think the 3D mounts are the way to go anyway. If you're going to fly with a 7 or something like that or a 6, you might just go ahead and spend a couple extra bucks so you don't have to worry about it just ejecting. The last one, the last one on the list, this is mine and I want to, I want to get this in here as well just for variety. This is the Catalyst Machine Works Smooth Operator and it is Catalyst Machine Works. They traditionally build racing frames, but it's their take on a freestyle frame. So it's a top mount battery and it is even more than a slim designed. It's a lot of stuff going on there. Ultra slim. So the advantage is you get a lot of centralized weight, but the disadvantage is it is a pain in the butt to build. It looks like it. You cannot just pick at your favorite flight controller and stick it in there. You have to think about what's going to fit. So is it, you can only fit one board in there. So that's the ESC up front and the flight controller in the back and then there's a plate that comes off here that you can use to access the receiver and the VTX. So now how does that feel with the flight controller being in the back of the clock? I've never flown anything like that. The flight controller being away from the center of mass is not going to matter unless you're flying in angle mode. The gyro detects degrees of rotation, which is the same for every part of the quad for every part of it. So there would be no disadvantage or advantage of having a flight controller centered versus it being off. If you fly in auto level mode, yes. If you fly in auto level mode, then it's detecting acceleration and the acceleration at the center is zero. And the acceleration at the outside is different. It's going to be different. But nobody's flying this in auto level mode. Nobody. And the difference for a couple centimeters away from the CG is actually not that much. This frame also falls into the realm of similar to the remix. Super fiddly. There's a thousand parts, different screws. It is a pain in the butt to build. You're also struggling to get the electronics in and you've got to be tight with your soldering. As far as durability goes, I mean, this one is broke because we flew the most destructive site in the world yesterday. Everything is going to break as well. I think some people are looking for that frame that's just not going to break and everything is going to break. I mean, you're throwing something that's 40, 50, 60 miles an hour into concrete, metal. It's going to break. So if you go into, if you buy something, this frame is never going to break. You're already starting off on the wrong foot of things. It's going to break. Just when it's going to break is the question. The thing that stands out to me about this frame is that when it breaks, well, so like the front strut broke and now I'm going to have to replace the front strut. And to do that, it's just two screws. So that's not too bad. But if I wanted to replace this front end here, the camera plates, I have to take, it's a little hard to see, but I have to take these screws out and the whole front end comes apart and there's seven different carbon pieces. And the other thing is that we've got a lot of, you know, the catalyst machine works is not afraid to design a frame exactly how they want it. So we've got these screws here with washers on top of them. And as I'm fiddling around in the field trying to change an arm, we're going to drop a washer. It's just a lot of stuff going on there. Yeah. So maintainability on this, they've done their best to make the maintainability as high as possible with this removable plate, but I really would not want to swap this arm in the field. And if you have to say that then here's the thing. When you're at a race, you probably have, I mean, people go to races, they have tables. When you're at a Bando, you're just literally standing out there in the middle of a dusty field, sometimes with homeless people wandering around. You don't have a table. You don't, you're just kneeling down in the grass with your soldering iron. I agree with that. And this is just not the frame for that. I would want to build like five of them and then just when one breaks, just throw it in the bag and fix them at home. This is a frame to fix and work on on the bench. I want to do a recap, which are your favorite. And when do you fly each one? I want to kind of rate them in terms of durability, ease of use, and flight handling, which we haven't talked about yet. They all fly very much the same besides the remix. So what's different about the remix? It's just something about the way it handles turns. It's hard to explain what's different about it. But if you were to fly this, one of these, and then go right to this one, it just feels. I think it's the way the weight is centralized maybe. It's definitely the way it's set up for sure. But for everything else, I mean, everything's on the exact same flight control, exact same ESC, exact same motors besides the skips out. You don't have to change your rates or anything because, I mean, I would think something like the Johnny with lighter weight, maybe pure X versus stretched X. For me personally, I fly all the same rates every day. On everything. I don't do any type of tuning differently for this one to that one, or this one to that one. I'm going to inappropriately eject something. I'm about to remix the FPV if he looks different. That has the camera below the prop line. Oh, good point. So everything else, when you roll, you're swinging like this, you're like penduluming the camera view. It definitely feels a lot different, doesn't it? It feels like you're having one. It's not my main rig, but I love having it just when I'm like, I need to feel something different. So they kind of fly the same, and I gotta say, I've noticed this too. I think that it speaks to how flight controllers today have just gotten so good at making the quad do what it's told to do that I think it matters way less than it used to. I think so as well. I think it's about what durability is the main one, what you're actually doing with the quad. If you're flying parks all day and you're not really getting crazy with any small gaps, any of these frames are perfectly fine and will do everything you needed to do. If you're getting more into the Bando situation, I would go with these two. The Skyliner and the Stingy. Because those two have been holding up pretty damn well. Okay. But you can also see the people that made these two frames mostly fly Bando's and concrete. If you're going to do more of the cinematic, the Johnny trees and things like that, I would go with the Johnny and the Skitzo. And the Skitzo also stands out because it lets you do the low up tilt. Right, and that's another thing. These are those two that you can do the low up tilt. Johnny also a juicy style pilot. And the remix with the five mil arms, I mean you can, if you're kind of a seasoned pilot, you can run that wherever you want to. Not ideal for Bando's, but I flew that in the Bando yesterday and didn't have an issue. That's interesting. You say that because again, it goes back to the idea of think about who designed the frame. Tommy is a very, very experienced pilot. Not that he doesn't crash. He's super smooth. And he's a very controlled pilot. He's not the kind of pilot who will just throw himself at a gap 500 times until he explodes or gets it. You think it's open? No. I'm actually thinking of Drew. Okay. So many times I've seen it and everybody's done. Everybody's done. They're ready to go and Drew has the eye of the tiger as he calls it. And he's just determined to get a trick. And I usually respect that about him. I'm not making fun of him. And he will get the trick and it will be awesome. And all of his quads will be in 700 pieces. And then he'll spend the next two or three hours repairing him. Tommy, that's not the pilot Tommy is. And that's not the frame he designed. Very interesting. These frames are designed for the pilot that designed it. I still haven't decided about this one. I probably wouldn't build one of the Here's the thing about this one. I respect what Catalyst has done with it so, so much. It is such an original design. And I do like the idea that it's hyper slammed and that increases durability. There's other things about it that are really cool. But the maintainability, having to keep spares. If you think about something like a chameleon Ti with the metal front end, the titanium front end, how is that going to compare to like just because I happened to have broken the front end? I mean, I got to say, this was a hard, hard crash straight into a metal i-beam. But I found myself thinking a chameleon Ti would have taken that. Do you think so? No, you cannot break that front end. Everything breaks. Everything breaks. Yes. True. I just think this has, this will be the type of frame that when you order one, you'd have to order two. I agree. And just some frames are like that, you just need to order two and not even build one. And that just be mainly for all parts that you need. All right. Well, I did just notice something differently about this. The arms are on different, you didn't say that? The rear arms are higher than the front arms to keep the rear motors out of the prop wash just a little. That's interesting. That is pretty interesting. Yeah. I love the camera mounting. It's flat. It's flat. So it comes in. I would build something like that for longer. There's so much about this frame that's right. If you need to do a seven inch long range version of this. Maybe this isn't a, maybe they should. That's what I would, maybe this isn't a Bando slayer. That's not a freestyle frame in my opinion. That is going to do it for our roundup of all these frames. There are links to all these frames down in the video description. If you want to, you know, find out more about them or God forbid you want to buy one of them. Yeah. They're down there in the video description. Thank you, Corey. Cricket, FPV. You're getting better and better at freestyle. And I'm not just saying that because you're here. Stop it. Stop it. You make me look bad. Thank you, sir. Thank you guys so much for watching. What do you think of these frames? Have you had a good experience or a bad experience with one of these frames? Tell us down in the comments because we want to know. Post those things that you feel like you can do differently or made the frame stronger in any way, shape, or form because somebody else out there might need that exact same point or tip. That's going to do it for this episode. We got to get out of this Airbnb.