 Rhae i ddim yn gweithio ni. Ond yw gweithio yng Nghymru yn ymdillogu yng nghymhwysig o'r ysgolwydd yma? Yna ymdillog yng nghymhwysig o ddiweddau'r ysgolwyddau ac ymdillog ymdillogol. Cysyllt ymdillogwch yng Nghymhwysig, y Prif Weinidr Narendr Ymodi, yn cael ei gyfrifio 100 miliwn cyfle o'r cyfrifio 2022. Yn gyfan yw ymdillogwch, a yw'r cyflwyno gyda'r ddeunydd yn iawn gydechrau'r ddeunydd gyda 17% i 25% i 5 yw ddweud. Mae yna'r progres a'r holl gweithio, sy'n gweithio'r gweithio'r barysau i gweithio, mae'n gweld y lefawr o'r gweithio'r amser o'r cyflwyno o'r cyflwyno a'r holl gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio. Ond mae'n cyflwyno'r cyflwyno i'r gweithio i gweithio'r gweithio. gyda'r hynny'r cyfrannu o bobl a gyda'r cyfrannu sydd i ddweud yn gyfrannu'r fawr yn gyfligol. Mae'r gweithio'r cyfrannu wedi'n mynd i'r cyfnodol, yn cael ei wneud o'r ymddangos o gyfaint gyda'r cyfrannu a'r hynny'n mynd i ddweud yn cyfrannu'r gweithio'r cyfrannu. Y Llyfridol Economig Fforym maes unrhywgol sy'n gwybod yn gwneud y ffordd o'r producció ac yn gofyn i'r ddweud y gallu cyfnod o'r adreffydd yn ymgyrchau yng Nghymru. Ond o bryd i'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol, o'r tyfnodol. Rhywun i'w Unigolani. Rhywodol am y Gweithio Glóbald Gwyl Pwyllwyr. Rhywodol i'n gwybod i'r gweithio. Felly, gallwn ni'n oes iddyn nhw eu bod goeth yn cael eu cyfnodol. Rhywodol am ddim yn gwybod o'n 40 ydi a nhw'n gweithio'n gweithio na gŵl y gallwch, felly mae yn eistedd i chi fel gyfarwydd. Rhaid i chi ymgyrch â'r iawn? Mae'n rhaid yn gofyn nhw'n gwylio bod gennym o ddwyngau o torque. Mae'n meddwl am y gwirioneddau yma ychydig yn y cyfnodol. Yn ymlaen, eich syniad i hyn sy'n beth mae'r ffordd a'r cyfnodau a'r cyfnodol am amlwg yn Yndiol, yw ddweud yng Nghymru ond yma sy'n ddweud yng nghymru o'u rhain. Thank you. Well firstly, I think over the last decade, India has done a tremendous job in investing in the power sector. And especially in the generation side of the power sector. Alta'r cyfnod oherwydd o'r cyfnod cyfnod, dyma'r cyfnod a chyfnod, yn gwneud gan gyfnod gyda'r cyfnod, mae'n ddaeth cyfnod oherwydd o'r cyfnod, ac mae'n ddweud yna yn hynny yn ei ddweud yn y cyfnod cyfnod o'r cyfnod cyfnod. Efallai, oherwydd o ran ein bod yn diolch y bêl foriad ynglyn â ymliegeddau Lleacol yn golygu ar y dyfu'r ysgol. Ond rwy'n pethwn ni'n dod yn y ddiddordebeth a'r dyfodol. Melodydd ydych chi'n ddevwaith, rwy'n ddiddordebeth y Prif Nysgrifennag Gŵor yn ddiddordebeth ar y dyfodol ysgol wedi llwyr ei cyflol a'r 2008, ac os ydych yn ddefnyddio enfadl y dyfodol yn ddiddordebeth a dyfi'r bod sy'n dod. I think the issue is much more in the states where, in all the states where you want to differentiate between a commercial paying customer and a subsidized customer. And in Gujarat they have put together a model where they have two grids, parallel grids which meet, which can provide power, uninterrupted power to the commercial customers 24x7. I think that model is now being replicated across the country. I think once we can do that, then there is sufficient power available at a very competitive price. India currently is producing power at 4 cents and that is extremely competitive globally. We've seen the prices of power in the recent wind power tenders and in the recent solar power tenders. They are clearly very, very competitive and I think that with the improvement in the grid, I think you will see reliable power being provided to every paying customer. After we have that solution rolled out, where next do you see the bottlenecks that need to be addressed in delivering power? Does that solve the problem or what else would you like to see? No, I think it pretty much solves the problem. Obviously we've had some regulatory bottlenecks in the past but I think the government has already taken most of the steps to address the issues of mines and coal mines and all of that. I think that's pretty much behind us now and therefore if we can create the demand to take care of the supply which is already available, I think you will see a significant growth in the power sector going forward. You talked about the reliable delivery of power. The average manufacturer in India loses almost 9% a year in sales because of power outages at the moment and that's compared to less than 2% in China. Power is also more expensive here. How can we address some of the problems with outages and things like that that we're seeing in India? Well, I think I agree with Prashanta as far as the movement that has taken place in the power industry is significant and that's directly reflected how ABB, my company is positioned in this country. We are primarily a power and automation technology provider to this country for the last 60 years. We are manufacturing in this country and year on year we have seen expansion of our factories as well as our production. So that shows that the country has been absorbing this technology and expanding the networks and it has continued to strengthen it. So when generation is only one element, transmission is another element and the distribution of power in the urban areas as well in the rural areas is another challenge. I believe the generation part as Prashanta mentioned is there. I think it's being augmented by the renewables which are being added to the grid, especially in the solar and the wind area and also hydropower is abundant in the country. When you mix it all, I think the generation side is taken care of but with a lot of renewables getting connected into that grid it provides a bit of a basic instability into the system and that's where all smart technologies are being built into the national and the state grids today and that's where I see, we very clearly see that investments being planned and being executed at this point of time. So that will create a pretty strong backbone in the transmission network to deliver reliable power to the consuming centres be it the urban areas, industrial areas and also with the new plans of the government into the rural areas. So that part I see is resolving going forward with the significant backbone being created. The next area would be the distribution of power. There again, wherever the privatisation is carried out and also the certain state electricity boards which are very progressive, they are again deploying a lot of good technologies like for example one of the good distribution companies here in New Delhi where we are sitting, they are deploying self-healing networks wherein you can assure power available to consumers be it residential or the industrial customers 100% of the time because if one feeder goes down there is another one which is backing up automatically. So there are a lot of technologies, smart technologies available when you deploy them in abundance, you know the reliability improves. Now with respect to the energy consumption and the efficiency part of it, it has to be acknowledged and I see this as an opportunity that in India for anything that we produce we consume 30% more energy per unit of output. So that means our energy inefficiency, consumption of energy is more of a problem how we consume energy rather than whether there is a deficiency of power because the power deficiency can be taken care of by different means by backup, co-generation etc. But how we consume energy is a bigger problem. So if we can reduce the 30% additional load that we put to produce the per unit of product or a service, I think that itself will give that energy back into the grid. So there we see a lot of possibilities in deploying energy efficiency technologies and that's where we are again very big with the industries. Be it using more energy efficient motors which consumes almost 65% of energy in the industry putting the drives technology which optimizes energy. So a lot of technologies available and they are well proven and we see that especially the large industrial houses they use it in abundance and I think we need to have a movement that the medium scale industries, the small scale industries, when they set them to absorb they should also use those technologies to keep the energy footprint lower. Can I put you on the spot a bit more though? What are the specific solutions that you would like to see either implemented and scaled up? What do you see working that you'd like to see more of or how do you think we could make a bigger leapfrog in doing what we're doing better? So two things. One is from the government side. I think they're doing their part by putting a backbone in the national grid and the straight grid. So that's the domain wherein the spend comes from the government. And also a lot of private companies are also coming into the transmission network which shows that it augments the capacity to deliver power to the centers. But then at the same time the second part is in the private sector. The private sector has to recognize that they need to deploy and employ energy efficient technologies. They should not shy away from making their plants more efficient. So I think this is the dual play and the dual responsibility of the government to continue to augment the grids but at the same time industries, whether it's small, medium or large to continue to use the energy efficient technologies. And those technologies are available in the country, manufactured in India and the plants are there. As the demand expands you will also expand the employment because you will have the complete value chain which will support it. I'd just like to belatedly welcome Mr Amitabh Kant and Mr Sumit Sharma to the panel. So I introduced you at the beginning but welcome. We've just been talking a little bit about the delivery of reliable power in India. I'd like to sort of move on and ask Minister Prabhu about some of the other problems that we face with making India, in particularly with streamlining laws and procedures for the ease of doing business. India has improved its ranking in the world's banks ease of doing business survey but there are still multiple clearance windows and cumbersome regulatory requirements. The government seems to be putting in a lot of effort but how much more needs to be done and we see a lot of disparity between states. Some are doing great and others are not. What's your view? You want me to put the number as how much more need to be done? I can say a lot most. This is a process. You cannot say that I have achieved excellence. Excellence is a milestone. You can always go beyond that. So we have started a journey and what is important is the direction and the commitment to go towards what you really want to move is to make it as best as possible a country where doing business will be the easiest thing to do. That's what we are trying to do. So I think just to put numbers and saying how much more, a lot more, how much has been done, a lot has been done. So we can say there needs to be moving forward and we'll really definitely committed to move forward in that direction. So many legislative changes have been made, administrative changes have been made, policy changes have been made. I'll just give an example about what these two friends of mine from the private sector are saying. If you ask Prashant in 2002 that power generating capacity was zero. If you ask ABB what was your business in 2002 was probably 100th of what it is today. What changed was the policy. We bought electricity power. I bought one law called Lexity Act 2003 which has created capacity three times more than what it is today. In 2002 the installed capacity of India was about close to 100,000 megawatts in which less than 2% was from the private sector. Whatever surplus power now we are talking about is new generating capacity which has come almost 60-65% of the incremental capacity has come because of private sector participation. And why did they come? And why did they not come before? Because the law did not allow them to start manufacturing generating power. And therefore policy is what you are asking me is of doing business. Policy plays a significant role in making it happen. So the government job is to allow people to do business. I always maintain this. People ask me what's your business as a commerce industry minister. They said my business is to allow others to do their business. And that's what we are actually trying to do and make sure that they progress in the business. They make profit. And that's why we made law. Not only one law. We made in that law itself there was a regulatory provision that each and every 29 states will have a state regulator. Each and every federal government level will have a central regulator and addition to that we created an alternate judicial mechanism to have a judicial, quasi-judicial body which will deal with that which has worked pretty well. On the transmission distribution side we have actually the distribution reforms initiated way back in 2002 for the first time in the India's history. We allocated almost that time more than $8 billion of federal money to promote state level because distribution is owned by the states. So what is important is, on ease of doing business, we really need to bring in ideas which private sector will hold on to. But to allow the private sector to do that we must have enabling environment and that's what besides we are trying to do. And I can tell you something, private sector having given and India's private sector is pretty dynamic. And in fact India's growth story is largely because of private sector's entrepreneurship has given it a great deal. So my job as industries and commerce minister is to ensure that we allow this entrepreneurship to blossom. We make sure so we are working on making India program, we are working on start-up program and many of this program where government is not going to start up something but government will allow people enable them to actually do it properly. So that's what we are trying to do and in fact this is what the proof is that one law brought in from a power deficient situation. Your power is the plus. And he will tell you. Look at his balance sheet when was 2000, how many megawatt he was producing and how much he was producing. 6,000 megawatt is what we've invested in since the law. Also the energy efficiency law. We brought a law again. Unfortunately, unfortunately I was a minister. So is it just a matter of... It has created an enabling environment. See, private sector steps in only when you provide a platform for policy and the policy cannot be a one-time policy. That's why I'm asking you how much more you ask me. It is a lot more because it's a dynamic situation. The policy must respond to the changing situation. We cannot make just one policy and leave it at that. So all the time we must revisit the policy to find out the difficulties faced by those who are actually using the policy for their businesses. And we must be dynamic enough to do that. And that's what we are doing. In fact, in the last few days I've been in the office only for less than a month, for a month. I must have met 1,100 trade associations, trade bodies to understand the problems and then try to reflect on it. We are working with my good friend Amitabh on finding out how we can create jobs from exports. We are working on this. So we are working together as a team to find out how we can make things better. So how much more? A lot more. How much has been achieved? A lot more. So I think we really need to move forward. So therefore there's no glass, but if there's a glass I would say the glass is half empty or half full. Half empty or half full is not bad. Amitabh, I know you've said that India really needs to focus on exports in a big way to lift the economy. Is there anything specifically that you think that the private and the public sector could do better together to address this? I think India needs to get the size and scale right. The private sector must have the ambition and hunger to penetrate global markets. A lot of people you will hear will say that the domestic market is very large and Indian entrepreneurs should focus on the domestic market. They must realise that actually the unit value realisation you get is 10x of that you get is in the export markets. So Indian entrepreneurs and Indian enterprise must really focus on global markets, India's size of exports, India's percentage of exports in the global markets is very small. And no country in the world ever post World War II has ever made it big without penetrating global markets. And therefore much like Japan, Korea, China and recent times, India can't grow on the back of domestic market. And Indians must become big in size and scale. They must combine innovation, enterprise and skills to get into global markets. That's the key. And this means size and scale right. I mean look at Renault itself. I mean it came in looking at the domestic market. It wanted to get into domestic market. It wanted to sell its car in India's market. First time in its history of 118 years this European car manufacturer has never manufactured outside Europe. Four years back it came, it innovated, designed, manufactured a car called the Renault Quid. And today it exports to a vast number of countries from here. It's demonstrated India's ability to do a lot of exports outside automobile, auto components, pharmaceuticals. I mean the world would have been, would have kept buying at very high rates medicine for 7 billion people who live below the poverty line. But India has enabled them to get pharmaceutical at the right price. It's simply because Indians have demonstrated their ability to do this on scale and size and they must do it in many other sectors as well. I mean obviously we'd like many more companies like Renault to be doing what they're doing. I mean what is the secret to getting more? No no there are many more actually Hyundai. Hyundai exports 60% of its production to 123 countries across the world. I mean there are so many more. There are MSME manufacturers here who are doing auto components for Damla. They are doing it for Mercedes. They are doing it for BMW. So many of them. I guess my question is more about how do we get to this magic 25% of GDP. How do we lift exports to that level? I think a couple of things on that front. One is that in India's case the domestic market must be used as a springboard to exports. That's the first thing. I mean don't look at just the size of the domestic market. Use it as a springboard to penetrate larger markets. Secondly I think India's you know logically what happens is that the small becomes medium. The medium becomes large. But in India we have too many MSMEs. You know if your total GDP production they contribute about 8% 8.2%. But if 45% of your exports is coming from MSMEs that really shows that the MSME must graduate. And they must have greater quality, focus on quality. They must have greater focus on excellence and on innovation. And the MSMEs must we must enable them to get bigger and bigger. And thirdly I think we must use our ports a lot of manufacturing close to the ports. I mean it's important to establish a lot of coastal zones right next to the port so that our ability to be a part of the global value chain. Import, do value addition and re-export. And therefore we are in a globalized world. It can't be that you don't import, you don't do value addition and you're not able to export. So India must become a very integral part of the global supply chain. And one of the great things this government has done in the last three years it's opened up its foreign direct investment regime. And that's why FDI into India has actually grown by 61%, 61% at a point of time when FDI across the world has fallen by 16%. So India has demonstrated its great ability to open up its economy across the world. And this will put pressure, this will allow best enterprise, best technology to come into India. And that will put pressure on domestic manufacturing to excel and then get into the global value chains. Samit, welcome. In the automotive industry you've had some success in making India reality. What do you think other businesses can learn from your experience? And do you feel like you are getting enough support from the government to achieve everything you want to do in that sector? First of all, I have to comment on Minister Prabhu's statement. Yes, a lot is happening. I won't deny that. But we should see India as a bigger opportunity. So if I take Renault as an example, as Mr Khan said in our 118 years of history, we had never launched a global car outside of Europe. The quid was the first example. But it also helped us develop over 400 suppliers in India. So today we may have a direct employment of close to 15,000 people, but when I count my suppliers and others, it's a sizable chunk. And today those suppliers are not only supplying cars which we are making in India and exporting out of India, but also production which is happening in Latin America. These suppliers have got a business opportunity there. So if we see manufacturing and the question which was debated was that we have to create more jobs. If we talk about 10 million jobs or 100 million jobs, that can come from manufacturing sector. And 48% of manufacturing sector GDP is automotive and automotive related. So yes, we need more investments in India, but I think today we have got enough capacities. Today if I see automotive sector, the capacity utilization is roughly around 65%. We still have 35% of capacity which is lying vacant. And that's the opportunity which we should immediately look forward to. Because automotive sector after textile sector in India is the largest employer, 32 million people. So what are the roadblocks? Like today if I have to talk about private sector, one of the key opportunity is to exporting cars out of India. Because when we launched quid, it brought a lot of innovation. India is a factory of innovation for even European manufacturers like us. We have learned a lot from people here in India. But today we can't export cars beyond a point because we have certain opportunities which are still open on FTAs with other countries. So today probably countries like Morocco in Africa are becoming big basis for manufacturing. So I think today if we have a 35% plus capacity available in the country, we immediately look forward to export opportunities out of India. And one thing I can assure you, the quality of the cars which are going out of India, they are second to none. So I think if we have to create immediate job, India is an innovation factory, but at the same point of time if we utilize this, the manufacturing GDP, that percentage which we are trying to hit 25% by 2022, which is currently 17%, I think it is a done deal. We can do it very, very easily. But I think focused approach, making India export for cars, signing good FTAs with different countries, I think that is an immediate opportunity what we have. On the issue of FTAs and so forth, I mean, Minister Rabi, you said that policy is a very big important part of this puzzle. I believe there is a new industrial policy being thought out at the moment. Can you tell us a little bit about how transformative that might be or what that will change? Change as a result of? What could we expect from this new industrial policy? See, if you look at the future of manufacturing, it is not necessarily the same sectors where we are actually manufacturing today where we have a stronghold. It's not the same sectors will continue to be the divers of manufacturing in the world, but only in India in the world. As if we see, we call it as, because we keep certain term very loosely support industrialisation of fifth or third or second world, whatever it is. But it's a fact that the complex, the profile of manufacturing in the world is changing very fast. Not necessarily the product, product itself constantly changes, that's nothing great about that. But a process of manufacturing itself is changing. For example, anywhere in the world you give example of Latin America. So what is a end product sold from Latin America is maybe a vehicle. But what goes into it is manufactured into 10 different locations. And I keep giving this example of Nike, a very good example of Nike. The brand is owned by the US, but beyond owning the brand, most of it is done outside the US, except that. So what is important is therefore how to take advantage of this in India is to first integrate it into global supply chain. And that's how it started. The first Suzuki car manufacturing came into India, which created an ecosystem. So somebody can always look at it by saying there's no enough vendors available. But Suzuki didn't wait for the vendors to be developed first. They came here first, the vendor development happened. Those ended supply chain is now part of global supply chain. They are the same people who supplied to Latin America because they got into this entire understanding. Pharmaceuticals, same thing happened. The generic manufacturing now, virtually India is a hub of generic manufacturing. It all started, people were saying we are only doing reverse engineering, which may be the starting point. But now the Indian pharma companies are developing their own molecules. They are developing, that's very expensive. Sometimes it could cost several hundred billion dollars, maybe even billion dollars sometimes. It's very expensive. But still they are investing money into that and developing it. So the future of manufacturing is not going to be the same as it is today. Because it was not a case 20 years back when it didn't have anything manufacturing of automobiles in India. It has developed. In last 20, 30 years, look at diamond export that we do from India. 30 years ago it was hardly anything. Now we have become the global leaders into diamond. We are trying to work on that. So we are working on some of these important emerging industries. We have actually started working on that. Maybe five, six different industries which will have a far more better future than what it is today. At the same time modernising those industries where we have a natural advantage. Like in textiles and garments where we have a natural advantage. We grow cotton, we have a huge human resource available. We have knowledge about doing that. We understand the entire ecosystem. But at the same time, while we invest into that to modernise those industries, look at those industries which will have a greater future than what it is today. And therefore, and those industries, any industry that we do, we must keep in mind that artificial intelligence will have an impact on it. The advanced robotics will have an impact on it. So we have to think about it. For example, pharmaceutical, I'll just give an example of pharmaceutical. These are traditional industries in India which has grown very well. We cannot use genomics into it and make it in a different kind of industry. So that's what we are really working on. I would like to talk about automotive and technology and the impact that's going to have on manufacturing in India. But I would like to first throw a question open to the whole panel. I'd like the views from everybody on this if you don't mind. I think the billion dollar, and I think each of you have touched on this slightly, but I think the billion dollar question in India at the moment is about capacity utilisation. And when will we see the investment cycle pick up? Because when we do, then a lot of the groundwork that we've laid, whether it's the power infrastructure or it's the policy, will start to bear fruit. I mean, what's your view on how quickly we're going to see investment demand pick up again? So actually there's a lot of public spending happening. It's been a withdrawal of the private sector, but if you look at the last three years, the investments made in road, rail, civil aviation, several sectors of the economy, the public sector investment has totally overtaken what the private sector investment would have been. The number of roads constructed, 133 kilometres a day in the rural areas, 22 kilometres a day in urban areas. The whole scheme about rural housing, providing housing to everyone, or spreading electrification into every village of India, or providing water to all the rural areas. So a huge amount of investments have gone into, we've done this calculation in Nithi, Iowa, irrespective of the fact that the private sector investment has not taken place. The government investment has been about almost a one-third more than that. And my view is that all this is going to lead to creation of demand. Essentially it's about creating demand in the rural areas. So I envisage that another six to seven months you'll see a huge demand taking off in a big way. But we should also understand that India's been growing at about 7.6 per cent, it's been growing in the midst of a way, it stands out as an oasis of growth, in the midst of a way barren global economic landscape. And once global demand takes off, you will see a lot of demand getting pushed here. But the government has left no stone unturned to push for infrastructure on ground. And therefore, to my mind, you will see demand taking off shortly. That's very encouraging. Six to eight months is very encouraging. Look at the government trying to create demand for purchase of 10,000 electric vehicles. Or look at what Mr Prabhu had done earlier to create demand through starting two new great plants in the state of Bihar, where he brought in GE and Alstom. So these are great initiators by the government to push for it, or push the construction of road, actually the railway investment under his regime had grown by about almost 48 per cent more than what it had done in the previous years. Or look at road investment, almost 50 per cent more than what it has done in the past. So huge focus on creation of world-class infrastructure on ground. And once you push for that, you push for Manrega, you push for housing, you push for electrification, you're bound to create a big demand in rural areas. Prashant, do you share that optimism about the six to eight months cycle? Yeah, I think I like to talk about it more from the private side. I think Mr Amidhaab Khan has given a very, very strong clarity of what the government is doing. I think on the private side, huge amount of investment happened over the last five years. Some of that capacity, which we all spoke about earlier, we created some surplus capacity. I think we are pretty quickly reaching the point where that surplus capacity is going to get consumed in the various sectors in the country. And my own view is for the private sector to start reinvesting in recreating capacity, which will only happen once the demand picks up and the surplus capacity gets consumed from the market. My own view is that it will take another year at least for the private sector to start reinvesting. Obviously, a large part in the industrial side, a large part is also being driven by the need for corporates to deliver their balance sheets. And that's also to some extent affecting large private sector investment. But a lot of that has happened and very quickly we will start seeing reinvestment by the private sector in all the major sectors. Minister Prabhu, would you share that assessment within a year? Will you be likely to see a good pickup in private investment? You know, you look at either you can go to extreme micro situation to find out or you can take a macro view of India's economy. You look at it from either way. I think India's economy is doing far, far better. It has done the numbers. We are not a corporate entity that we give quarter numbers and which quarter we have to find out because Wall Street will react to quarters. This is look at India's growth in the last three years. Look at India's projection of growth in the several more years. I think we are on a really high growth trajectory. I agree that demand has to come in like what he said. Overall, our estimate also is that about capacity utilization can be easily be increased by about 25-30% more. But how the capacity utilization will happen more? That will happen either you consume in India more or you export outside India more. Like he said, the export, the global demand itself is very weak and we are trying to do that. We are working with so many countries. In fact, last one month I must submit at least 30, 40 commerce ministries of different countries and therefore we are also trying to tell him please try to buy more. We are trying to work with them. So not just FTA because these are the other implications. Today he is saying this after sometime he is going to come and say that a European country is now coming to India more because of the FTA. So that's the other side of it. So therefore we have to look at it and balance it properly to ensure that Indian business benefits. Global business also benefits. We are an integrated global economy. So we want all businesses to benefit from it. But while we do this, this capital expertise, I'll just add one more thing because he gave this example of this. The railways, which is the largest business enterprise anywhere in the world which employs 1.3 million people. And it has about only last year. It transported a very small number of people, 8.1 billion people which is more than the global population. Now that entity, the 70 years we had invested something like about 70 billion dollars, about 70 billion dollars or say 65 billion dollars, exactly the same amount we are committed to investing the first three years of this government. Now just imagine the magnitude of investment, public investment for the first seven decades and the public investment is the last years. So public investment is not just helping public part of the investment. It is actually helping private investment. Like he gave an example of G and Ulstom, 7 billion dollars of orders have been given by the railways. Now G and Ulstom in return cannot manufacture everything on their own. So they are going to create their own vendor development, own ecosystem that itself is going to create demand. That itself is going to, and who are the beneficiaries? So one large investment coming in, he has made investment for automobile manufacturing. It must have created a huge amount of jobs and economic opportunities for large number of entities, small entities, medium-sized entities and they don't remain at that level. They will graduate slowly as they grow into the business. So this is the spin-off benefit of what we are doing today. So India's growth story is not just intact but looks more promising than ever before. I would like to talk about skills and technology. One of the common complaints we hear is that the Indian workforce is not adequately skilled to do the jobs that are required. How can the public and the private sector work together to adopt technology while ensuring goods produced in India are still of global standards? When we say we don't have adequate skills available in the country, I don't agree, because we find a very huge amount of talent available. When I was sharing this story of quid, what we got in India, I think today our other units are learning from Indian colleagues. So there's not a challenge. Skills, the manpower, all that is available and if we need more in terms of opportunity, we can create that. I think public-private partnership is an important point. We need to create an ecosystem. There is a demand definitely coming back to your first question. There's a demand which is definitely growing. There's no doubt about it. We can only question the pace and obviously the policies which the government is bringing will act as a catalyst to increase that. There is also a demand which is outside of India. So what Mr Prabhu was saying, yes, we are seeing global economy and giving an example of Latin America. Yes, economies are weak, but a product which is innovated in India can be very, very competitive. So in that weaker economy, if you have an innovative product, because no more it is our labour cost which is to our advantage. I think the innovation which we can bring in the country can be very, very important. And this private-public partnership to grow definitely is an important area. We need, if I talk about exports, we need ports, we need roads infrastructure. Today if I see logistic cost in India is roughly 16% to 17% as compared to 8% to 10% in China. For sure with this infrastructure it will improve. So I think the government and the private sector has to go hand in hand. Instead of doing Christmas tree of things, we should be focused and work together on few things but execute it very efficiently. And I think today I would acknowledge that the kind of support we are getting from the government, we are heard, actions are taken. So it's all positive. The only thing what we can do is to improve the timing of our actions. And on the question of technology, do you see that as how is technology changing the way you deliver your business in India? And do you see that as something that is going to enable the creation of jobs or do you see it taking jobs? No, I don't think there's a lot of debate which is happening, especially in our sector. When you say electric cars are going to come, 1,000 moving parts will move to only 20 moving parts so there will be loss of a lot of jobs. I don't think so. I think technology is bringing that complementary effect which is required. If I talk about India, India would be the third largest automobile market in the world. And it's not only going to be the hub for domestic consumption but it also has an opportunity to become a hub for global exports. Lot of countries which are exporting cars might become uncompetitive in view of that. So I think technology is no more a challenge. It's only an opportunity. We will find more and more opportunities with technology and I can very confidently talk about automotive sector. I don't see that as a challenge, rather that's only an opportunity. Means why can't we see if India is going to be the third largest automotive market in the world? Why can't we see India to be one of the leading country for electrical cars? That's an opportunity which is available. So I would still like to remain very optimistic towards that. Maybe Sanjeev, you can elaborate a bit. You're seeing a lot about how technology is changing the way business is done in India. Are you optimistic about the impact that's having on manufacturing and jobs? Absolutely. If you see hierarchy of skills and the technology, that was your original question. I think there are different skills and different technology levels that you have to slice. So if you really look into the digitalisation side of the skills, and that's the biggest opportunity which is opening up, India has been an exporter of IT services for a long time. We have a very strong backbone for it. When I'm looking for engineers or the scientists in the area of artificial intelligence or machine learning, which is the top of the hierarchy today, I have no difficulty finding those talents in this country. They are available and they are available at a very, very good class and they are not only contributing for us in the domestic side, but they are also contributing for the global side of things. Then you come down to the principal engineers who are doing the basic research and the engineers who work in the factory and the people who develop products for our global businesses. They are all available here. So those skills are available and those skills have generated themselves over a period of time. But then you come to the lowest hierarchy wherein you have the factory worker. There I think we need to have a structure. It's not an overnight thing. You need to have a sustained program to skill up people. So what we do, like as an example in our Baroda factory, which is the largest factory we have, we acquire these ITIs, the people who come from industrial training institutes, and we have an institute called SWET, which is developed together with our Swiss partners. We take these ITIs for two years and we reskill them to a level that is expected by the quality standards and the manufacturing standards we have in our factory. After those two years, these people get absorbed. I believe the private sector and the public sector have a structured program to bring these youngsters, whether they are coming from ITIs, diploma holders, engineers, and put them through a structured training program. I believe we will not only address the skill part, but we will also address the employment part. And also I think as we will grow in the domestic and the export market, I think those will be the much needed skills that we require. As far as the technology part is concerned, I think it's playing a big role, and we are a robotics, one of the largest robotics supplier globally in the automobile industry as well in the associated industry. We see there's a huge uptake of robotics all over the globe, and we see the absorption of robotics in India is also growing in a faster way. China has a as big a population as we have. China is the largest robotics location, the absorption country at this point of time. The reason is people are looking for better productivity. They are looking for better energy, kind of footprint for the per unit of production of the item. So technology is going to be a big enabler in that space. I'm going to throw it open for questions in a minute. So if you do have a question, please raise your hand. I'm just going to ask you one final question. You just said that obviously the private sector is doing its part in skilling the workforce. Is the public sector doing enough in terms of delivering the people you need in the first place? Well, I believe, I think this is where perhaps we need to solve this issue together as a public sector and the private sector. I believe the manpower is required in both areas. And I would say we must institutionalize learning in this country. And we should not just have the headlines, whether the engineers or the diploma holders or the ITIs, whether they are usable by the industry or not, we should do something about it. And I think having this initiative of having the buffer training institutes hosted by us is really giving these youngsters a proper opportunity to skill themselves up. And after a few years, let me tell you, they are the best in class employees you can get anywhere in the world. So the potential is there. Absolutely, absolutely. I saw a couple of hands raised. If you would mind just introducing yourself and asking your questions succinctly. I'm with CNBC. Thank you very much for a panel. I just wanted to touch on the last point that you've been talking about. A lack of technological readiness has been a key issue surrounding India. It's something Wef has pointed out in its latest ease of doing business report. We just heard about a scaling program. I wanted to know if there's any other initiatives that both the private and public industry can roll out to ensure that individuals and companies are prepared for things like digital taxes, are prepared for the fourth industrial revolution that's already here. Thank you. So I think a lot of work is being done to cause a lot of disruption in our schools. You know, we started these other innovation mission where we supported over 1500 schools for tinkering labs so that students from class 6 to class 12 play around with robots, 3D printers, do artificial intelligence right from the school level itself. I mean, that's a paradigm shift. No other country in the world has ever done this at a very young age. In addition to this, we are supporting a vast number of incubation centres across. So a lot of incubation, and I must say this, that India is a great example of combining innovation and entrepreneurship and skills. Actually, a lot of global innovation has taken place from India. Don't forget that. I mean, John Decree's 60 HP tractor, Honeywell's turbocharger, or GE's ECG machine, low-cost ECG machine, which they used to manufacture for $35,000 in the United States, got manufactured here for $3,000, enabling them to do ECG for $1, as compared to $35 in the USA. Or Microsoft's Bing, all-innovated here, or our own orbiter around the mass at one-tenth the cost of the western nations. So India has demonstrated its great ability to do unique frugal innovation which has penetrated global world. I mean, India is a highly innovative society. If it wasn't there, 750 top companies of the world wouldn't have shifted their R&D centres to Bangalore and Hyderabad. Every top single company has relocated its innovation centre and R&D centre away from its head office into Bangalore and Hyderabad. And it's spreading now to Pune and to Golgwam. Thank you. Can we take a question over here? Hello, sir. My name is Alok and I'm from the Global Shapers Bangalore Hub. Being a 3D printing entrepreneur, I'm proud to say that I'm playing a small role in today contributing to the amazing Macon India programme. So thanks for that. So my question is on the lines of a recently written for the forum on the future of jobs. So the question is on the lines of the German apprenticeship system which has been proven to be quite successful for them, especially in the automotive sector and really creating jobs. And right now there are talks to regenerate rework on this policy to bring in one million refugees that are currently in Germany due to the Syria crisis. So is there something we can learn from that apprenticeship system which can be implemented in our country, given the fact that the blue collar workers are the backbone for us? Would anybody like to take a question about apprenticeships? Mr Prabhu. In fact, if you really look at it, one part is to prepare people to seize the opportunity that are available. That's what the skilled development programme is all about. That you create opportunities so that is an opportunity available by a company like him coming into India then they are ready to take jobs or he's saying they will prepare them to take jobs. That's one part. The second part is like you are giving example of this auto component. This has happened in the last three, four decades actually. So we must find out some of such key industrial areas which are of great future. So something with the industry which has already matured and therefore is doing something like this to create opportunities, innovate into that is one part. The second is to find out such industries where we can actually make it happen. So we are actually doing both. We are trying to identify the areas like which are the new areas where we can work. A lot of work is actually started going on and we want to do that in the next few months, hopefully maybe a year. We will actually identify such sectors, create a policy environment, find out investors who will actually make investment to that and then prepare as you are saying, the people who can take advantage of that by creating skills as well as development. The second part is a next generation development of this sector. Like he is saying that disruption is inevitable. All sectors are facing disruption, whether you like it or not. So this sector, electric vehicles coming in, complete disruption. So creating for that disruptive process in terms of their own business innovation but also creating an ecosystem which will facilitate that. So like the Niti and we are working to find out each of the sector, what is that policy gaps that we have, what can actually incentivise people to come and make investment to those sectors and also facilitating. For example, I am telling all the expert promotion councils that why don't you just look at incremental export of 5%, 10%, 20% like that. Why not think about areas where we will have a counter-jump because we get into the new area. For example, just now this morning, therefore it is fresh on my mind, I am telling you. We have a James and Jewelery Export Promotion Council. I don't know who is the James and who is the Jewelery. But we are saying, so in this council, Jewelery export can easily be taken to about 20 billion dollars. Somebody came in the morning and told me that seeds could be exported to a expenditure of 1 billion dollars of seeds we can export globally. And that too by creating at least a million jobs in the field where we are needed. Now just imagine, so these are the kind of opportunities. We don't need to go in for very big high-five opportunities. Even smaller opportunities where there is a need even in the old economy. Like seeds is not something rocket science already there but having identified it and trying to work on that. So therefore I think these are the areas. Let me take another question. Hi, good afternoon. My name is Sanjay Shastri. I represent a Japanese firm. These are some great numbers. My question is to the panel but largely automotive. Great numbers, 17%, going to 25%, 30 million, going to 100 million, etc. My question is to the gentleman from the government especially. Disclaimer is that I am a big fan of the government and especially a few gentlemen as well. Even though there is a lot of focus on manufacturing, suddenly when a couple of years ago or a year ago, there is a lot of dictation from the government to the automotive industry in general to move from BS4 to BS6. I believe there was a 60,000 crore investment from the automobile industry. There is so much of focus on IC engine technology. We are already talking about electric vehicles. So how do you see the effect of this happening on to the GDP growth as far as manufacturing is concerned? Let me put this in a perspective. There has been a lot of investment for BS6 not only by the private sector but by the government in terms of refining capacity. A huge amount of investment has been made by the public sector oil companies to be ready for BS6. India is making a quantum jump forward. Skipping BS5, moving into BS6 and we quite realise this in the government that we have to give adequate opportunity for people to create wealth from the investment they have made. I mean, we believe in this. We also realise that whatever the talk of electric vehicles, we are great believers that there is a movement away from internal combustion engines towards electric vehicles. Despite all this talk of electric vehicles and Sumit will tell you right that at the moment only 1% of the total cars purchased in the world are actually electric vehicles. But there will be a tipping point and that tipping point will be close to 2030 because 48% is the cost of the battery. When the cost of the battery will fall radically from several studies show this, the cost of battery will fall radically from $273 to around $73. That will be the point when electric vehicles will take off and therefore the point that is being made is that India's today, if you look at India's industrial GDP, 48% is automobile. It's a big creator of jobs. So whatever we do, we must not look at India but make India the hub for electric vehicle manufacturing for the domestic market and exports and therefore size and scale is important and whatever we plan, we plan to seize that moment of 2030 to capture global markets and that's possible if we think big and think large. And therefore much of the discussion that we're having with the automobile industry is that how do we get into that size and scale? Because today 25% of the domestic market, out of the marketing, out of the production of automobile and auto component sectors, 25% to 28% is getting exported. So India can't look at the domestic market. India must look at the global markets. There will be a shift that will be close to 2030 and we must position ourselves for that and that is why we are working very closely with the automobile industry. Whatever policy changes we require because we allow them adequate time to reap the advantage of the investments that have been made for BS6 and then position ourselves for 2030 in a big way. Yes, I would like to add here to you, Sanjay. What you mentioned is right. If I see from automotive industry point of view, it was a big stress moving from BS4 to BS6, which Europe took 11 years. We are practically moving in three years now because first April, the entire country became BS4. But I think there was a huge disparity because international players like us had to come to India and actually downsize our technology to meet the local requirements. So I think it's a catching up for domestic players and international manufacturers. We have that technology and I think if we are talking about making India an export hub for electric cars, for even IC engines, as Mr Khan said, IC engines are going to stay. It's not that they are going off tomorrow morning. But I think if we have to really export, we need to make sure that we are building the quality, whether it is in emission safety, which is at par with what is consumed across the globe. So we see this as an opportunity. Yes, it was a big pain to invest huge money, but I think it is for a greater good. The only thing and the only doubt what we have in mind is that we have invested this heavy money for this greater good. The policies should move very, very fast so that we can achieve that greater good. Unlike what happened many years back where automotive manufacturers thought India will be big and this is the time when India and China were almost going for the same race, manufacturers created huge capacities in India but nothing moved. I think we are at that point where policies are definitely going to help us. In case you didn't hear him, he said the policies should move faster than the cars, which I think we can all agree with. I think we have time for one more question as we started a bit late. Is there anybody else who saw some hands? Just one over here. Thank you, Rajeev from PCCW. Quick question to Mr Prabhu, Mr Kanthan, Mr Soni. This is in the context of China. Sector after sector, take steel, cement, take aluminium, China's surplus capacity across the world has rendered plants anywhere else in the world extremely unviable. That's happening across the sector and it's happening everywhere. Question is in the manufacturing sector what can India do to counteract that story because that's a story that's working across the world and making every other sector unviable. What can be done, particularly given that we need to have an export-led growth? Firstly, that's the reality of a situation that China's capacity is far, far greater than what the even world can consume probably in some of the sectors, not all the sectors, in some sectors. So they are created at excess capacity. That doesn't mean to compete with them we have to create even more capacity so that we'll go down very soon because there is no demand for that globally. So therefore, this is not a question of competing only by creating capacities. It's a question of scaling up in areas where we feel there is going to be a growth which can come in and the global market actually means that they try to find out your relative advantage, relative strength, therefore exactly what we have to do for example, just not automatic. Even steel sector cement is also into steel. The steel and the cement sector also has an excess capacity in India even though our capacity is much, much smaller than that of China. So those who have a larger capacity have a larger problem. The country we have a smaller capacity has a smaller problem. So now we really need to work out on areas to find out which are those sectors which I was highlighting it again and again is those key sectors, sunrise sectors, emerging sectors where we like to make that investment. China started manufacturing by low cost manufacturing, labour intensive manufacturing, manufacturing which happened around the coastal zones. Shenzhen was the first one. They expanded into other coastal areas and actually they grew it like that. Do we mean that we have to follow the same model not necessarily? We will pick up from them, find out something very good for them but we will also do something which is in our interface which is going to be now benefitting for the future change in the growth economy. Gekal is a very good example of that. So therefore we will try to work on that, not necessarily copy anybody else's model, learn from right models and learn from the wrong models. I just want to add one point very quickly. Because you just talked about capacity, it's not the matter of capacity and I'll take an example on our side. It's not economies of scale because China has got huge economies of scale in automotive space but when they had to look forward to a low cost a quid is something which they are looking forward because apart from capacities and economies of scale innovation on the cost side, on the technology side is also very, very important to give that competitive edge. Okay, well thank you very much for joining us today Mr Khan, Mr Sharma, Mr Ria, Mr Shawney. Thank you very much.